Do Moyes' Pros outweigh his Cons?

[HungryHungryHibbo]

These arguments are scattered all over the place here, if the mods don't mind I'd like to consolidate them and take a poll.

Pros

• Good man-manager
• Good eye for a bargain in foreign leagues(Arteta, Pienaar)
• Good eye for potential in lower leagues (Jagielka, Lescott, Cahill, Beckford?)
• Relatively good at blooding youth in a responsible manner (Rooney, Rodwell, Gosling)
• Tactics and substitutions occasionally work out (v. Man United last year)
• Honest, loyal, great ambassador for the club
• Very professional in media interviews; doesn't "rock the boat"
• Finished 4th in League
• Made it to FA Cup Final, Carling Cup semi-final

Looking at his record, he's turned us around from relegation candidates to consistent challengers for Europe, and has even got us into the Champions' League.


Cons

• Overly conservative tactics costs us points
• Loyalty to certain players costs us points (Osman, Neville, Hibbo to some extent)
• Suspected 'dithering' in transfer market incredibly frustrating
• Teams consistently start season slow, have to play catch-up entire season
• Teams are inconsistent; beating tough opposition one week and dropping points to weak opposition the next
• Often refuses to play exciting youth players
• 70th minute Substitutions almost never have a positive impact
• Negative tactics, insists on 4-5-1 even at home
• Finished 17th
• Several early cup exits to weak opposition

His inconsistency and failure so far to push us on to the next level could waste one of the best squads we've had in decades.

Vote and discuss

[blargins]

Yes, but how he performs this season depends on his future.

[nomorechang]

Yes, but how he performs this season depends on his future.

There's a lot more than what happens this season that will decide his future

[Sprooly]

Cons

• Overly conservative tactics costs us points
• Loyalty to certain players costs us points (Osman, Neville, Hibbo to some extent)
• Suspected 'dithering' in transfer market incredibly frustrating
• Teams consistently start season slow, have to play catch-up entire season
• Teams are inconsistent; beating tough opposition one week and dropping points to weak opposition the next
• Often refuses to play exciting youth players
• 70th minute Substitutions almost never have a positive impact
• Negative tactics, insists on 4-5-1 even at home
• Finished 17th
• Several early cup exits to weak opposition

I haven't seen Conservative tactics this season or even last season the problem with moyes tactics is that the build up needs to be quicker in the final 3rd tbh i dont see how Trying to control the possession of the ball can be seen as Conservative, Moyes is trying to get us to Dominate teams

The Loyalty so certain players has only come about on this forum recently since weve got a squad now, Neville is Team captain he will play when Fit, But Osman wont start in the future i think (and hope) 

On the Dithering only really moyes knows whether he does or not but he likes to make sure

Team starting slow is incredibly frustrating whether we completely blame the manager idk

Team being inconsistent with say beating a chelsea and then drawing with wolves again hard to completely blame the manager because you see that for a lot in other teams and other sports

On the Young players, ok he hasn't played Coleman as much as we all like but they still get there chance bit of a over exaggeration that he refuses to play exciting youth players just because he has held back coleman a little to help him in the future because he is quite raw

The late substitutions are really annoying and i wish he would at least make some subs earlier like Last year when he brought on Victor at half time and he got a goal for us (well it was an Own goal but anyway)

The 17th was a bit of a learning curve for him much like i think it would of been from Zola i think us finishing 17th was a good thing for Moyes as a manager although it was a disappointing season it doesn't really matter much anymore (and please no one quote this and say well then top 4 didnt mean much cos it happened once it is different)

and the Cup exits are a fkn bitch and i do hate losing to shit teams



at the end of the day there is a lot of people who think they know it all and think we should play coleman and play 2 upfront and blah blah blah but remember last season when we went 2 upfront against Hull we were 3-0 down at half time

oh and 4-5-1\4-2-3-1 is the current formation at the momment even fergie plays 4-5-1 in some matches now, the only team around that plays 4-4-2 well is Tottenham

[Silas]

Yes but this is a very important season for Moyes and Everton.

[Rick@OZ]

If we dont get a major investor by the beginning of next season I honestly believe that Moyes will be tempted to go else where, I know hes under contract but that means fuck all in todays game. Sad that all the other top 6 teams have millions to splash out on who ever they want but we will just plug away with the bargin basement players and hope that Moyes will turn them into 25m pound international stars for Man Shitty or Chelski

[claimabstract]

Performing a pros/cons analysis is only really useful when placed in context; that is, the pros and cons of keeping Moyes in lieu of other managerial candidates that Everton could take on.  Even if one were to decide that Moyes' cons outweighed his pros, that would mean naught if the club is unable to secure a replacement manager with more pros / less cons.

[montanatoffeefan]

Performing a pros/cons analysis is only really useful when placed in context; that is, the pros and cons of keeping Moyes in lieu of other managerial candidates that Everton could take on.  Even if one were to decide that Moyes' cons outweighed his pros, that would mean naught if the club is unable to secure a replacement manager with more pros / less cons.

This. For the last part, take a look at a list of the managers who've run other Prem clubs with similar financial resources during Moyes' tenure at Everton. Then ask what percentage of them do you fancy over David Moyes?  Look over the names on that list and see how they stack up overall vs. Moyes.

The lustings after Mourinho or Van Gaal or Guus, etc. are just wank off fantasies. No elite manager will take a few years out of his life and career to help out Bill Kenwright in his demented dream to hang onto Everton for as long as he can, and damn the consequences. Even second tier managers that get talked about would be reluctant to come to Everton given the limitations they'd face here -- trying to follow what Moyes  has done with so little. I mean, who with the cleverness to do it as well as Moyes would bother to try to do it at all?

Moyes has been the best man in the game for this job, and likely will continue to be. We have been extraordinarily fortunate to have him. This ultimatum about him having to win a trophy this season or go Top 4 again to remain worthy of the Everton job seems a bit of foolish, phony brave showmanship -- even tragicomic when you look at it in its full context.

Yeah, let's just roll the dice, hoping another Moyes or young Van Gaal (who won't wise up and move on quickly) pops up for us. And if, in all likelihood, we instead get a Lawrie Sanchez or Alan Curbishley or Chris Coleman or Stuart Pearce or Paul Jewell or Nigel Worthington...well, relegation battles can be exciting, too.

[sharpattack]

Considering his budget he is the best manager the club has ever had. You can make the exact same criticisms of any manager in the league.

[Derek]

Don't believe we could get a better manager elsewhere.

[MmmBlueToffee]

4 people vote no.

The mind boggles.

Without Moyes this club would be fucked.

[Jamokachi]

Yes, but how he performs this season depends on his future.

This.