November 25, 2017, 06:23:50 AM

Author Topic: The Defence  (Read 4112 times)

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September 10, 2017, 12:44:17 AM
Reply #30
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Brownie20

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He shouldn't start regardless of the background - he's crap

Ok sweet cheeks. I'll bow to your superior knowledge and accept your opinion as fact
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deCoubertin

September 10, 2017, 12:48:04 AM
Reply #31
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Realist


Ok sweet cheeks. I'll bow to your superior knowledge and accept your opinion as fact

It is a fact son he's awful, so what if he played well against Belgium? You'd expect most pro's to have a good game in them every once in a while

September 10, 2017, 12:53:18 AM
Reply #32
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Brownie20

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It is a fact son he's awful, so what if he played well against Belgium? You'd expect most pro's to have a good game in them every once in a while

I get better arguments off my Year 11 SEN class than tgat comment. I've watched Williams for many years, a good deal more than probably anyone on here, he is a good defender. However, he's not been at his best for us, while still being at his best for Wales. So there is something wrong somewhere.
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September 10, 2017, 12:55:58 AM
Reply #33
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Ross


I didn't realise you were a regular at the Liberty stadium to make such a judgement on a player, or that you followed Wales so often.

I'll take the red tinted specs comment, as it's natural that someone would think that. However, I rarely, if ever, make absolute comments on a ppayer's ability on here like some people do. Williams is a better defender than he has shown at times for us, but I don't think last season he was anywhere near as bad as people made out. This season he is part of a team/system that is struggling to work. Maybe he has seen his best days, age catches up with us all.

They'd been shown on tv often enough to see his quality before he arrived.

He's limited, he was poor last season and he has been so far this season. The fact is he's sub standard and always has been for a team looking to be top half.

Not sure how you can blame the system either when he looks equally inept in a back 3 or 4 or with 1, 2 or even 3 defensively minded midfielders in front of him either. He's not dominant in the air, he's poor in the tackle, he's got no recovery pace, he's got no communication skills, his passing is poor, his decision making is poor. He's got no redeeming features whatsoever for a central defender that's been in the league for this long.

Must be some transform though when he plays well for Wales. Does he get changed in a phone box and wear a cape?
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

September 10, 2017, 12:58:14 AM
Reply #34
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Marky Mark and the funky


@Brownie20 I was quite chuffed when we secured Williams, based on performances where he saved Swansea from us and of course Wales. Sadly it seems he has been in decline ever since, or at the least I think it is reasonable to argue he has struggled to adapt to playing for a side that expects more from it's centre-backs, in particular he is generally left more exposed with us.

He could transport to West Bromwich Albion right now and still look great, I don't intend that to sound like a good thing.

September 10, 2017, 01:01:24 AM
Reply #35
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Cozzie


I think the main issue with Williams is that because Koeman signed him he feels he needs to play him to justify it.


September 10, 2017, 01:02:35 AM
Reply #36
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Brownie20

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They'd been shown on tv often enough to see his quality before he arrived.

He's limited, he was poor last season and he has been so far this season. The fact is he's sub standard and always has been for a team looking to be top half.

Not sure how you can blame the system either when he looks equally inept in a back 3 or 4 or with 1, 2 or even 3 defensively minded midfielders in front of him either. He's not dominant in the air, he's poor in the tackle, he's got no recovery pace, he's got no communication skills, his passing is poor, his decision making is poor. He's got no redeeming features whatsoever for a central defender that's been in the league for this long.

Must be some transform though when he plays well for Wales. Does he get changed in a phone box and wear a cape?


I can only go on what I've seen, what I know. I know a number of Swans fans, none of whom were sad to see him go and who would take him bake even now. For Wales, there is nothing wrong with his decision making, he leads by example. The odd pass goes astray, as we see for us, but he is rarely caught out or makes a mistake. He's not the greatest defender in the world and I think he needs replacing for next season but some of the things I see written about him are ridiculous

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September 10, 2017, 01:02:51 AM
Reply #37
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GLewis

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His best games for us have been when we've just defended and camped on the edge of the box.

Swansea have always been fairly rigid in their defensive shape (previously based around dominating possession to limit defensive actions) and Wales are happy to sit back and try and use Bale.

Most of the time we're on the front foot (even today we picked a team to be more attacking) and it doesn't suit him as it leaves a lot of space to cover.

He got done by Kane today physically, which is no shame but he doesn't have the recovery pace to mitigate deficiencies.

I think Jags is better individually but also would seem a more natural fit with Keane in that Keane would be the aerially dominant CB with Jags sweeping around.

September 10, 2017, 01:04:29 AM
Reply #38
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Brownie20

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@Brownie20 I was quite chuffed when we secured Williams, based on performances where he saved Swansea from us and of course Wales. Sadly it seems he has been in decline ever since, or at the least I think it is reasonable to argue he has struggled to adapt to playing for a side that expects more from it's centre-backs, in particular he is generally left more exposed with us.

He could transport to West Bromwich Albion right now and still look great, I don't intend that to sound like a good thing.

He's definitely in decline, and we signed him a season or two too late. My issue is with some of the vitriol that gets thrown at him.
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September 10, 2017, 01:10:34 AM
Reply #39
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brap2

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As said above it's clear what the problem is. He's a deep block defender that isn't capable of playing the way we want him to play.

He gets had off constantly, has no recovery pace (which thank god, Jags always did have) and is absolutely terrible on the ball.

Jags in for me.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

September 10, 2017, 01:12:37 AM
Reply #40
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BlueBeagle


Like Belgium in the Euro qualifiers you mean who he totally dominated their forwards and we didn't concede home and away?

Like 2 and 3 years ago you mean?

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how quickly a player in his 30s can go downhill in that period.

September 10, 2017, 01:13:07 AM
Reply #41
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Realist


I get better arguments off my Year 11 SEN class than tgat comment. I've watched Williams for many years, a good deal more than probably anyone on here, he is a good defender. However, he's not been at his best for us, while still being at his best for Wales. So there is something wrong somewhere.

It's mad I thought he was a lot better than he's turned out to be

September 10, 2017, 01:41:52 AM
Reply #42
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bacon sarnie


This, Gueye, Schneid, Klassen - absolutely invisible and NO cover for our defense.

In can get worse.  How stubborn will Koeman be?

We'll have to wait and see on both counts m'lud!

September 10, 2017, 01:48:40 AM
Reply #43
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Brownie20

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Like 2 and 3 years ago you mean?

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how quickly a player in his 30s can go downhill in that period.

Or the Euro quarter finals - just over a 12 month ago. The point was made to counter argue the 'you only play shit teams' in qualifying
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September 10, 2017, 01:55:56 AM
Reply #44
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GrantyBoy78


Martina and Williams are absolutely not good enough for this level.

Jagielka is past his best but should absolutely be starting.

Holgate struggles going forward but is a rock defensively.

Pickford
Holgate Keane Jagielka Baines

That's currently our best back line.

There can be no argument.
Holgate wasn't fit to start apparently, had an ankle knock. Cuco is 3rd choice , what do you expect? Imagine how shit Kenny looks in training if he's not getting game time?