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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:16:36 AM

Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:16:36 AM
I donít see why he should get off the hook, considering the mess we are in so thought Iíd start this.

Apart from bullying a couple of poorer teams out of their well established, better players, what has he achieved since being here?

After the dross Martinez signed and saddled Koeman with, we adopted the DoF approach - to provide more continuity and structure to our recruitment policy. If at any point we decide to change manager (which is looking increasingly likely), the new one should be able to slot in nicely, with a top squad at his disposal. Is this the case?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 12:18:28 AM
BOTH THE CUNTS
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:18:35 AM
sack em all
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on October 02, 2017, 12:19:00 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
Don't really see what he brings except confusion
We are the only club stupid enough to employ him because of the "role" he played in Leicester winning the prem.
His role was minimal at best & we make him our director of football, it's pathetic
Yes I'd sack him immediately
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:21:01 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.

Why wouldn't you sack him? Are you suggesting he might not play a role in any of the signings?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:25:50 AM
never been a fan of directors of football

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:27:28 AM
Why wouldn't you sack him? Are you suggesting he might not play a role in any of the signings?

the signings are not the issue, its Koemans use of them, Plus Koeman has stated a few times that other players where lined up, but he wasnt happy with them.. so good enough for Walsh(who has a good track record on finding players) but not good enough for Koeman.. who has a shit eye for players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 12:28:24 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.

Just on the other side of the coin, the manager would have an easier job if the required players had been brought in for him.

Note: Koeman should be doing better regardless of course.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
the signings are not the issue, its Koemans use of them, Plus Koeman has stated a few times that other players where lined up, but he wasnt happy with them.. so good enough for Walsh(who has a good track record on finding players) but not good enough for Koeman.. who has a shit eye for players.

Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 12:34:15 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

Could you really? Or are you just being silly now?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:34:42 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

Why do you keep bringing that up regarding Kante and Mahrez, even when it isnít even mentioned in the post you quoted?!

Walsh had a great hand in the squad assembled at Leicester regardless of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:35:37 AM
Why do you keep bringing that up regarding Kante and Mahrez, even when it isnít even mentioned in the post you quoted?!

Walsh had a great hand in the squad assembled at Leicester regardless of it.

Who would you think he means when he says Walsh had a good record of finding players?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:36:22 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

when i went to the match on Thursday, my mate said that i play better than Evertons players.. lol

i dont care on the value of the players. its all arbitrary.. its the players koeman wanted,
I disagree with the Walsh comments, but over all, Koeman said no to a few signings.. regardless Koeman is the one who works with the players, regardless who buys them.
Even if you bought better players, Koeman needs to fit them into a system that is productive.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:36:33 AM
Could you really? Or are you just being silly now?

I genuinely believe I could sign 3 better players with £100m let's face it Brownie it wouldn't be hard would it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:38:25 AM
Who would you think he means when he says Walsh had a good record of finding players?

Youíre the one who thinks Walsh is shit and isnít worth his salt. You do the digging amd find who he did and didnít sign. Put it on yer YouTube channel.

I canít be fucked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:39:18 AM
Youíre the one who thinks Walsh is shit and isnít worth his salt. You do the digging amd find who he did and didnít sign. Put it on yer YouTube channel.

I canít be fucked.

I already did do the digging, that's why I stated what I did
Why begin engaging then if you "can't be fucked"?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Why begin engaging then if you "can't be fucked"?

Very careless of me to ďengageĒ in the first place really.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:41:30 AM
Very careless of me to ďengageĒ in the first place really.

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:42:58 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.
Surely a DoF means someone IS now accountable?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:43:09 AM
Eh?

I meant....... I really shouldnít have gotten involved in the first place as I canít be arsed carrying on arguing the toss with a Hugh Fernly Whittingstall lookalike.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:45:12 AM
I meant....... I really shouldnít have gotten involved in the first place as I canít be arsed carrying on arguing the toss with a Hugh Fernly Whittingstall lookalike.

 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:46:19 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.
To motivate the likes of Niasse, Vasic and DCL? Not exactly world-beaters.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:46:34 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

I asked a couple of weeks ago who bought in what players...keoman =  martina rooney schneiderlin siggs bolasie williams maybe klassen

walsh = gueye  sandro  pickford keane 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:47:32 AM
Just on the other side of the coin, the manager would have an easier job if the required players had been brought in for him.

Note: Koeman should be doing better regardless of course.
This
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:47:53 AM
I asked a couple of weeks ago who bought in what players...keoman =  martina rooney schneiderlin siggs bolasie williams maybe klassen

walsh = gueye  sandro  pickford keane

Who told you that?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D3blue on October 02, 2017, 12:48:24 AM
I have to say I'm against the idea of a DoF, probably because I never understood exactly what their function is.  It seems to be just a means to pass the buck between manager and DoF...
Let's face it, none of us knows whether RK of SW identified our recent signings....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 12:50:11 AM
I genuinely believe I could sign 3 better players with £100m let's face it Brownie it wouldn't be hard would it?

Then you are a self delusional egotist.

But let's look at it logically

Are you complaining about the quality of the player, the fee or both?

Firstly the players - two are both established Prem players and international players, the third has just broken into the England side and is highly rated. Schneiderlin was excellent when he came in. Don't know what's up with him at the minute but he's not a bad player. Sigurdsson needs to play the number 10 role, not be out on the wing. Keane has the attributes to be a top draw centre half, he needs someone quick beside him.

The fees, as has been said before, are ridiculous but that is the climate we are in.

So, that leaves looking st players from abroad - how good is your scouting network? Do you know some players who you would take a punt on?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 12:50:15 AM
never been a fan of directors of football


Dennis wise was the first 1 i remember, Dennis Wise i mean Dennis fuckin Wise, it's a non job, it's like a civil service job, they give them to people with no fuckin use in the real fuckin world what so ever.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:52:33 AM
Who told you that?

Just guessing like
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Azz on October 02, 2017, 12:53:38 AM
It's a no brainer surely.   The guy is a fraud.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:55:08 AM
Just guessing like

😂
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:00:22 AM
Then you are a self delusional egotist.

But let's look at it logically

Are you complaining about the quality of the player, the fee or both?

Firstly the players - two are both established Prem players and international players, the third has just broken into the England side and is highly rated. Schneiderlin was excellent when he came in. Don't know what's up with him at the minute but he's not a bad player. Sigurdsson needs to play the number 10 role, not be out on the wing. Keane has the attributes to be a top draw centre half, he needs someone quick beside him.

The fees, as has been said before, are ridiculous but that is the climate we are in.

So, that leaves looking st players from abroad - how good is your scouting network? Do you know some players who you would take a punt on?

I'm complaining about the quality & the fees
Keane hasn't just "broken" into the England side at all, is he gonna be a regular from now on? No. You say he's highly rated - by who?

Infact I'd say I'm almost certain I could've done better with the money, we can throw Bolasie in too if you want? That gives me £128m for four players
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 01:02:31 AM
sack em all

(http://img37.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTPS93d3cuZ2Vlay5jb20vd3AtY29udGVudC91cGxvYWRzLzIwMTYvMDYvYnVybi10aGVtLWFsbC5naWYlog.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 01:16:30 AM
I'm complaining about the quality & the fees
Keane hasn't just "broken" into the England side at all, is he gonna be a regular from now on? No. You say he's highly rated - by who?

Infact I'd say I'm almost certain I could've done better with the money, we can throw Bolasie in too if you want? That gives me £128m for four players

So he didn't play for England against Germany then? I must have imagined it. Quite a few pundits last year were talking about him highly on football shows and in newspaper or magazine collumns. Many saying he'd be at a big club in the not so distant future.

I thought you were just being flippant at first but if you genuinely think that you, Mr joe public, with no experience of anything regarding football transfer at the elite level, then that is hilarious.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 01:29:18 AM
We don't really know what Walsh's full remit is at the club. I understand that he and Koeman meet often to discuss transfer targets and the kind of players that the manager wants to work with for the Everton squad. With regards to the actual negotiations and trying to get the players to come in, it sounds like Kenwright is still very much involved especially as it was him that was involved in bringing Sigurdsson to Everton - a player that Koeman has wanted since he was Southampton manager.

Players like Keane, Pickford, Klaassen, Sandro, Sigurdsson, Rooney, Schneiderlin and Gana are meant to be very good, if the manager does not know what to do with these very good players (that he wanted) and get them to play well with their natural ability then something is seriously wrong on the coaching side.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:31:49 AM
So he didn't play for England against Germany then? I must have imagined it. Quite a few pundits last year were talking about him highly on football shows and in newspaper or magazine collumns. Many saying he'd be at a big club in the not so distant future.

I thought you were just being flippant at first but if you genuinely think that you, Mr joe public, with no experience of anything regarding football transfer at the elite level, then that is hilarious.

A friendly - in March? Has he played since? No, so he's hardly broken into the team has he?
Articles, columns blah blah blah - he'll never play for a big team - he's nowhere near good enough

And yes I was deadly serious - £128m to find 4 better players than Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Bolasie?
No danger and I'd probably have change too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 01:37:46 AM
I've got massive questions marks over the whole structure of the club at the moment

From boardroom to the Koeman/Walsh axis.

I'm kinda thinking it's been a massive mess since Moshiri come in tbh.

Not calling for his head or anything like that, but it's been a bit chaotic, hasn't it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 01:49:57 AM
when i went to the match on Thursday, my mate said that i play better than Evertons players.. lol

i dont care on the value of the players. its all arbitrary.. its the players koeman wanted,
I disagree with the Walsh comments, but over all, Koeman said no to a few signings.. regardless Koeman is the one who works with the players, regardless who buys them.
Even if you bought better players, Koeman needs to fit them into a system that is productive.

Don't we need a system first?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 01:53:52 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 01:57:35 AM
A friendly - in March? Has he played since? No, so he's hardly broken into the team has he?
Articles, columns blah blah blah - he'll never play for a big team - he's nowhere near good enough

And yes I was deadly serious - £128m to find 4 better players than Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Bolasie?
No danger and I'd probably have change too

You know when you go blah blah blah? That's really petulant and you lose all credibility in any discussions that you enter into. You asked me who rated him, I told you where to look. If you want to debate properly do it. If not don't ask questions you either don't like the answers to or don't fit your appropriate lack of respect .

Again, if you think it's so easy To go and buy these superstars, chuck your CV into the club. I'm sure they'll be glad to get it. It's not an easy job though. I was doing a bit of transfer dealing in the summer to get a centre down from one of the Valley clubs to play for us. That was fucking hard work and we were only dealing with a budget of £10k.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:04:16 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 02, 2017, 02:07:19 AM
Does anyone know if Leicester replaced Walsh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:07:40 AM
You know when you go blah blah blah? That's really petulant and you lose all credibility in any discussions that you enter into. You asked me who rated him, I told you where to look. If you want to debate properly do it. If not don't ask questions you either don't like the answers to or don't fit your appropriate lack of respect .

Again, if you think it's so easy To go and buy these superstars, chuck your CV into the club. I'm sure they'll be glad to get it. It's not an easy job though. I was doing a bit of transfer dealing in the summer to get a centre down from one of the Valley clubs to play for us. That was fucking hard work and we were only dealing with a budget of £10k.

I just meant it's just journalists, sports writers etc they're irrelevant really. I don't think I really lose credibility
But yeah I could've bought better players for less money
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.
Meant to quote Ram on Moshiri. but it all went Burnley
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 02:12:10 AM
I just meant it's just journalists, sports writers etc they're irrelevant really. I don't think I really lose credibility
But yeah I could've bought better players for less money


Must be great on your planet
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:23:51 AM
Must be great on your planet

My world is wonderful thanks, have a nice evening Brownie 👍
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 02:59:31 AM
I still think the players we bought are good players so for me the issue is largely not to do with recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
I disagree 100% with the people saying we don't need a position like this. Nobody good gives the manager complete control over footballing decisions anymore. Even clubs with unlimited spending power have realized how dumb it is to put recruitment and the hiring of backroom staff entirely in the hands of the manager. The do-it-all manager model is totally outdated and unless we want to fall even further behind the best clubs in England, there's no reason we should go back to it.

With that said, I'd be comfortable with the club giving Walsh the axe and starting over, this time with the director of football being hired before the manager. Maybe Koeman has made his job difficult but I don't see anything in him that's going to give us an edge over the clubs we want to compete with and the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing. We need more than an old-school English scout who's smashed a handful of transfers if we want to be competitive in England and in Europe.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:14:40 AM
I disagree 100% with the people saying we don't need a position like this. Nobody good gives the manager complete control over footballing decisions anymore. Even clubs with unlimited spending power have realized how dumb it is to put recruitment and the hiring of backroom staff entirely in the hands of the manager. The do-it-all manager model is totally outdated and unless we want to fall even further behind the best clubs in England, there's no reason we should go back to it.

With that said, I'd be comfortable with the club giving Walsh the axe and starting over, this time with the director of football being hired before the manager. Maybe Koeman has made his job difficult but I don't see anything in him that's going to give us an edge over the clubs we want to compete with and the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing. We need more than an old-school English scout who's smashed a handful of transfers if we want to be competitive in England and in Europe.

Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:20:00 AM
I've got massive questions marks over the whole structure of the club at the moment

From boardroom to the Koeman/Walsh axis.

I'm kinda thinking it's been a massive mess since Moshiri come in tbh.

Not calling for his head or anything like that, but it's been a bit chaotic, hasn't it?


Not sure I agree.

I think there have been loads of positives - more than I even expected/hoped for in such a short space of time (transfer money/activity, Bramley Moore Dock, sponsorships), but they have all really been off the pitch.

I think it's on the pitch I agree with you. That's where it's been shit.

But I don't think he's the kind of person to tolerate poor results in any area of his business for long - especially the most high-profile area that most directly affects the business.

Plus he was at Arsenal for years being cock-blocked by Kronke - the thought of actually being able to fire a manager with a better one if he wants to means it's probably top of his Bucket List now.   :)

(http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/94484667-53b8-4117-b336-340a5f3cbc11/05ceb0dc-aac5-45e0-8819-ab6f29ee3465.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:21:27 AM
Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.

The state of the team vs money spent is my guess
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:26:45 AM
If we are saying the players brought in are largely his responsibility are we saying these signings are poor because I am not having that really. Aside from Williams (who no one could have guessed would be this shit) and Martina who is an obvious stop gap I don't think any of the signings are poor they are performing poorly. The only criticism at Walsh's door for me right now is where the hell a striker is.

I don't think his role is all encompassing as we imagine though. Martina, Schneiderlin, Sigurddsson are all out and out Koeman signings for a start. Is our scouting network failing as well? Who is responsible for the youth signings as Onyekuru is looking like a find for a start.

I don't think it's a tangible role for us as fans to figure out whereas you can actually see the impact or not of Koeman on the pitch
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:32:26 AM
The state of the team vs money spent is my guess

Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on October 02, 2017, 03:40:52 AM
We signed loads of good players but with no plan of how to make a team with them
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:44:43 AM
The state of the team vs money spent is my guess

Surely that depends on which are his signings and which are koemans though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:46:52 AM
We signed loads of good players but with no plan of how to make a team with them

So then another question is - 'Was the team plan Walsh's, Koeman's or both of theirs?"

Sacking Walsh might be good, might be right - I'm just saying "How the fuck do we know when we don't even know what his job is or how well he's doing it?"
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 03:49:15 AM
Not on board with sacking Walsh. I like some of his signings.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:51:48 AM
Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?

Lukaku has to feature in any talk about the state of the squad - whether it was forced or not, he's probably a top 10 striker in the world, now we don't have a proper striker at all in the squad, we haven't even attempted to replace him!
"Potential great futures" doesn't really cut it for me when they've spent £220m+ on players since they arrived here.
"A couple of established star performers?" - the only one I see is Sigurdsson. You may argue Rooney but he's clearly not the player he once was.
Walsh is responsible for this shit too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: arteta4spain on October 02, 2017, 03:53:22 AM
Haven't a few on here said that Koeman and Walsh don't see eye to eye? If this is true maybe there's friction and Koemans finding it hard to integrate all the players. But it sounds like he's alienating some players and forcing himself into fitting square pegs in round holes. I'd say it's more down to Koeman than Walsh but I don't think he's helping the situation either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:55:43 AM
We don't know if he is though that's the point. I wouldn't say we didn't attempt to replace Lukaku but we did fail too. Remember as well it is Koeman who has insisted on increased productivity and goals all over the pitch, something most of us were into when he sold it. He's failed to deliver on that one thus far.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:59:46 AM
We don't know if he is though that's the point. I wouldn't say we didn't attempt to replace Lukaku but we did fail too. Remember as well it is Koeman who has insisted on increased productivity and goals all over the pitch, something most of us were into when he sold it. He's failed to deliver on that one thus far.

I can't imagine Walsh had free reign to sign a striker. I think more likely koeman had a very short list for him to work from and Walsh can't force anyone to sign for us

The impression I get rightly or wrongly is that all the cheaper punts are walsh's and all the big money buys are what koeman has asked for. If that's the case no Walsh shouldn't be sacked and koeman clearly has too much power and not enough talent
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 04:04:52 AM
Not on board with sacking Walsh. I like some of his signings.

You don't know who he's bought
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 04:06:09 AM
never been a fan of directors of football



I can see the irony. We have a director of football for the first time but our football is directionless.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 04:12:56 AM
I'm glad we went for the Director of Football approach especially as in the past we've had managers with a very large remit, the problem with the old 'manager does everything' system is you are assuming that the manager will be there for the long term and with the example of Martinez, he seemed to have quite a large say in how Finch Farm was upgraded with extra bedrooms or whatever it was he felt suited his philosophy. He's gone and the current manager has a completely different way of looking at football which risks overhauling the system influenced by the previous manager.

For me the Director of Football should provide continuity on the footballing side of the club and help Everton establish some sort of consistent footballing principle or philosophy that reflects the development of the club. So when a new manager comes in after the old one is sacked or moves to another club, they have to be able to fit with the Everton ethos and make the most of the existing players at the club whilst also working with the DoF to come up with suitable transfer targets.

I'm not sure the board have this DoF structure fully sussed out as it seems that Walsh is focused mostly on the scouting side and I don't know what other responsibilities he's supposed to have especially regarding the actual footballing side of things. I think Kenwright said something along the lines that he still thought the manager was the most important individual on the footballing side although I don't know if Koeman is directly answerable to the DoF.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 04:16:16 AM
I'm glad we went for the Director of Football approach especially as in the past we've had managers with a very large remit, the problem with the old 'manager does everything' system is you are assuming that the manager will be there for the long term and with the example of Martinez, he seemed to have quite a large say in how Finch Farm was upgraded with extra bedrooms or whatever it was he felt suited his philosophy.

I read the bedroom idea was fucked off as soon as the pillock left
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 04:19:12 AM
You don't know who he's bought

If you think Koeman knew who Onyekuru, Sandro, Vlasic and Gana were I think you'd be mistaken. It's obvious that Martina, Stek and Schneiderlin were Koeman signings. It's likely that Klaassen was also. Koeman also seemed to have a massive hard-on for Rooney and Sigurdsson. Who knows with the others? Yes, it's guesswork but educated guesswork.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing.

What are these rumours?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 04:33:14 AM
What are these rumours?

It comes from here, I think:

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4 (http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4)

Quote
I said to snoop when he got the job I don't think he was all he's built up to be and I don't think anyone who was involved in football would have given him the job. Moshiri saw Arsenal struggle with Wenger once they lost David Dein and they'd flirted with Walsh but I don't think anyone with a knowledge of transfers and the ins and outs of footy would have appointed steve Walsh .

I'm not saying he hasn't spotted and can't spot a player but he brings baggage , I think Everton ended up because of the baggage second guessing Walsh . We've got , as always really , too many people looking at too much in the way of transfers . i don't believe Koeman and I don't believe Kenwright trust Walsh and I'll be honest I don't blame them.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 05:14:43 AM
Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.
I think itís relatively certain that when a club creates a DoF role for a chief scout, heís going to be in charge of recruitment. Otherwise heíd just be hired as scout/chief scout.

And Iíd say not bringing in a Lukaku replacement over the course of 3 transfer windows and not signing a left back - is doing a bad job. Heís essentially hamstrung the manager - and any future manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 05:22:04 AM
It comes from here, I think:

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4 (http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4)
By Ďbaggageí was he one of those paedo young coaches?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:38:00 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:38:56 AM
By Ďbaggageí was he one of those paedo young coaches?

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 05:39:06 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.

What have I missed? What's happened tonight?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:40:20 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.

The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's responsible as is Koeman
They're also both responsible for not replacing Lukaku & not signing a back up / replacement for Baines
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 05:43:31 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's as responsible as Koeman is

They are not 'shit' players. They are underperforming players. There is a big difference
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 05:44:52 AM
Lack of accountability in regards to the window I have to say.

The failure to 'replace' Lukaku is borderline insane.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on October 02, 2017, 05:49:56 AM
Lack of accountability in regards to the window I have to say.

The failure to 'replace' Lukaku is borderline insane.

That has to go down as a failure for everyone concerned.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 05:50:22 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's as responsible as Koeman is

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:51:11 AM
They are not 'shit' players. They are underperforming players. There is a big difference

That's your opinion
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:52:47 AM
Moshiri given his full support
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:02:40 AM

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.

Hardly anyone he's signed is shit is debatable. Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie & Klaassen have a really long way to go to justify their hefty price tags (£110 ish million!), Walsh was here when all those players arrived so he was involved in those deals

We were all made up because Everton have never made an early splash in the market like we did this time. That's the reason everyone was made up not because of who we signed like you've made out

How did signing Sigurdsson "create more problems than we could've known"?

You're clearly blaming Koeman over Lukaku, they knew months before that he was leaving so between them that was a colossal fuck up

I don't rate Walsh (or Koeman)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:07:48 AM
That's your opinion

Yes it is, but deep down you know they are not 'shit' players. You just like to be dramatic and deal in hyperbole quite a bit. If you genuinely think they are 'shit' then I can't wait to see the names you are going to buy for us when you get your new job. I hope you're thick skinned though
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:20:01 AM
Yes it is, but deep down you know they are not 'shit' players. You just like to be dramatic and deal in hyperbole quite a bit. If you genuinely think they are 'shit' then I can't wait to see the names you are going to buy for us when you get your new job. I hope you're thick skinned though

Those are also just your opinions. We've established you like expressing your opinions
I'm expressing mine, sorry you don't like them 🤷🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 06:20:16 AM
Hardly anyone he's signed is shit is debatable. Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie & Klaassen have a really long way to go to justify their hefty price tags (£110 ish million!), Walsh was here when all those players arrived so he was involved in those deals

We were all made up because Everton have never made an early splash in the market like we did this time. That's the reason everyone was made up not because of who we signed like you've made out

How did signing Sigurdsson "create more problems than we could've known"?

You're clearly blaming Koeman over Lukaku, they knew months before that he was leaving so between them that was a colossal fuck up

I don't rate Walsh (or Koeman)

Keane and Klassen have been here 5 minutes. Bolasie has had a major injury which might take another 6 months to get over and Scheiderlin does need to improve I agree, but we've certainly seen glimpses of his class especially at the tail end of last season. The fact that we've had inconsistent performances from him is because the manager is getting next to nothing out of him, like the majority of the team.
 
There's no way we were all made up just because we signed a lot of players early either. A fair few bigger clubs than everton were after the likes of Keane, Pickford and Sandro, so we knew were going for quality players with potential for plenty more years. Remember the agonising wait for us to sign Sandro on here? Over 100 + pages.... and all because he looked absolute class in Spain.
 
Chasing Sigurdsson for the best part of 2 months was ridiculous because after signing Klassen and Rooney, Koemans priority shouldve been making sure we had a presence up top to help the team and more notably Sandro and DCL through the season. Sigurdsson has now become a bit of a target due to his value and average performances. Koeman should've pulled the plug on the deal and realised we weren't desperate for another no.10. He doesn't answer to Walsh.... it's the other way around. Which is why the buck stops with him for no Lukaku replacement too and the general lack of quality performances, results and team spirit throughout this team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 02, 2017, 06:21:03 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's responsible as is Koeman
They're also both responsible for not replacing Lukaku & not signing a back up / replacement for Baines
Do you think Chizzy got a fair chance on 'Strictly'  tonight? Only two appearances and then dropped and probably hasn't got a locker either. We've never replaced Rachel Riley up front and two windows have passed since then. That's where the fault lies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:32:01 AM

Keane and Klassen have been here 5 minutes. Bolasie has had a major injury which might take another 6 months to get over and Scheiderlin does need to improve I agree, but we've certainly seen glimpses of his class especially at the tail end of last season. The fact that we've had inconsistent performances from him is because the manager is getting next to nothing out of him, like the majority of the team.
 
There's no way we were all made up just because we signed a lot of players early either. A fair few bigger clubs than everton were after the likes of Keane, Pickford and Sandro, so we knew were going for quality players with potential for plenty more years. Remember the agonising wait for us to sign Sandro on here? Over 100 + pages.... and all because he looked absolute class in Spain.
 
Chasing Sigurdsson for the best part of 2 months was ridiculous because after signing Klassen and Rooney, Koemans priority shouldve been making sure we had a presence up top to help the team and more notably Sandro and DCL through the season. Sigurdsson has now become a bit of a target due to his value and average performances. Koeman should've pulled the plug on the deal and realised we weren't desperate for another no.10. He doesn't answer to Walsh.... it's the other way around. Which is why the buck stops with him for no Lukaku replacement too and the general lack of quality performances, results and team spirit throughout this team.

That was the sole reason people were excited because we looked like we meant business not because of who we were signing

Did Bolasie look like a £30m player before he got injured?

Schneiderlin is playing in his preferred position, your argument would work if we were talking about say Sigurdsson who is a CAM and is being shunted out to left mid, Schneiderlin is useless

Keane & Klaassen are not worth what we've bought them for, it's obvious, infact bookmark this thread and I guarantee I'll be proven right at the end of the season

Sandro is garbage don't get me started on him

You don't know who answers to who out of Koeman & Walsh - you're just assuming so the buck resting with him comment is based off an assumption

The Sigurdsson deal - I agree we maybe didn't need him or if we did then we shouldn't have bought Klassen, the need for a striker was greater than the need for Sigurdsson but did Koeman know that we still wouldn't buy a striker even after we signed Sigurdsson?

I also agree that the performances & spirit are Koemans issues but to say Walsh is the poor blameless guy in this mess is ludicrous

They're equally to blame for the state of the squad

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on October 02, 2017, 06:46:29 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/838730e65f3d3b47da5bfffac331d51e.jpg)

Nuff said 😅
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:47:48 AM
Those are also just your opinions. We've established you like expressing your opinions
I'm expressing mine, sorry you don't like them 🤷🏻‍♂️


The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 06:53:04 AM
Wether players are good enough or not they didn't ask to be targeted by Everton, lack of shape,or not looking like there is a plan, the look of confusion generally as to what individual players are supposed to be doing within the team is all down to the manager,when it looks so easy for teams to move right through us with such ease is down to him there is just no redeeming features to this team, and there are some good players in there but they have a manager who dosen't know how to fix what he has caused.
     
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 02, 2017, 06:55:55 AM
I don't think there is much wrong with the purchases individually or collectively from his position. Last season I'd think it's be likely Walsh was responsible for signing Lookman, DCL, Gueye, this season I'd only say Onyekuru, but maybe Pickford or Keane, maybe identified Sandro, but Koeman certainly did the romancing if memory serves me correct. I think Rooney would have been unanimous, I look at Sigurdsson as more of a manager buy, given the eventual outlay, but think both probably wanted him.

There has been oversight in terms of the requirements. Our 2 main objectives in summer surely must have been replacing the 2 players who got the most goals and assists for us, 2 most central players to how we attacked. I think on paper we signed players who got more goals and assists last season, there just doesn't seem any logic about who is supposed to be doing what or how they fit together. That's more to do with the coaches domain, in terms of requesting certain types of players. We got virtually all the players we wanted and could get. If the manager was that worried about where the goals will come from, he had opportunity to make that a priority.

From our summer midfield signings, it's only really Vlasic who looks capable of running at opponents with the ball, think he'll become more central to our play because of necessity. But I also like DCL and I think he's been unlucky to not score a few and the supply has been pretty poor, compared to the level of service we gave Lukaku last year. I understand the logic in surrounding a striker with goal scoring midfielders, but we don't have the same presence up front, and I noticed increase in just aimless selfish hopeful shots from range. Whether it's desperation, lack of options or players competing against each other rather than working together, it's not a good habit.

In a world of Kevin Mirallas', Niasse is king.  :whistle:

But I think Walsh's remit is more about identifying players and making sure the business makes financial sense. It was Koeman's prerogative about what types of players he wanted, the priorities for the first team and how it fits together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:58:57 AM
The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery

I think I've explained my opinions pretty thoroughly to be fair, not really sure what else you'd like?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:59:55 AM
I think I've explained my opinions pretty thoroughly to be fair, not really sure what else you'd like?


Well if the term 'shit' is now the benchmark for thoroughly then yes you have. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 07:04:01 AM
Well if the term 'shit' is now the benchmark for thoroughly then yes you have.

We're going around in circles here Mr. Brown - I'm off to bed, have a nice night 👍
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:04:46 AM
We're going around in circles here Mr. Brown - I'm off to bed, have a nice night 👍

Raising the white flag are we? 😉
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 07:11:10 AM
Raising the white flag are we? 😉

Not really mate you've offered nothing in the way of an argument against anything I've said, just "they're not shit they're just underperforming"

I'm just bored & tired so I'm off to bed. Night mate 🛏
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:17:28 AM
Not really mate you've offered nothing in the way of an argument against anything I've said, just "they're not shit they're just underperforming"

I'm just bored & tired so I'm off to bed. Night mate 🛏

It was just a joke
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 07:29:12 AM
Thinking about all the players weve signed and vlasic seems to be one of the best of the bunch so far,,a player which came from a team

 we played twice in quick succession so absolutely fuck all to do with walsh or koeman....shame we never played atalanta first as their

 winger gomez looks really good with 16 goals and 91 chances created last year and 3 goals and 21 chances created so far this year

our ross last year scored 5 and created 82 chances
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 02, 2017, 07:46:30 AM
The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery

This might help - usually in Lower Gwladys but does tend to blend in with the croed
(http://churchofmabusradio.com/files/2012/07/538571_350060011718133_100001424113319_955773_1919666748_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
This might help - usually in Lower Gwladys but does tend to blend in with the croed
(http://churchofmabusradio.com/files/2012/07/538571_350060011718133_100001424113319_955773_1919666748_n.jpg)

Looks like most of the women from the Rhondda valleys

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 01:25:30 PM
Not blaming Walsh cos I think they might be koeman signings but Sigurdsson is a dreadful buy at the price and we overpaid on Pickford and Keane too. The market is inflated but we still paid too much
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:26:25 PM
Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?

Good points apart from the obvious...we knew Lukaku was going, so why was that position not the highest priority? Why spend so much time and effort on siggurdson?

This is a major failing. Whoever made that decision should take the responsibility for it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 02:56:18 PM

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.
...or the manager had a system planned but the head of recruitment didnít buy him the players he needed to implement it
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:58:38 PM
...or the manager had a system planned but the head of recruitment didnít buy him the players he needed to implement it

Can you see ANY evidence of a system?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:53:50 PM
Don't think there was much wrong with a lot of the signings, you could certainly make a sensible case for most of them really. The only one I'm unsure of is Klaassan, not because there might not be a decent payer in there somewhere, eventually, but because we just didn't need him. You could maybe argue that we didn't really need Sig either and certainly not at that price but he came with a decent pedigree so you'd have expected him to have shown more so far.

I just don't think we have a manager with either the man management skills or the tactical knowhow to manage a team at this level. His ego and personality might get in the way too. Maybe Walsh fucked up with the striker situation and another centre half but we signed about a dozen players this summer across both age groups, to expect him to find us basically a whole new first team in one summer was a big ask of anyone.

There is enough talent there to be playing at a higher level than we are at present, that's down to one man.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 05:25:50 PM
If you think Koeman knew who Onyekuru, Sandro, Vlasic and Gana were I think you'd be mistaken. It's obvious that Martina, Stek and Schneiderlin were Koeman signings. It's likely that Klaassen was also. Koeman also seemed to have a massive hard-on for Rooney and Sigurdsson. Who knows with the others? Yes, it's guesswork but educated guesswork.

You can go back all last Spring and see evidence of the Rooney hard-on.  Perhaps he's the classic "starfucker" type manager (after all, he was a legend, and no doubt remembers what it was like when he was on the decline, likely thought he was owed deference then too) and has lost the dressing room.

Just a working theory.

I would personally give Walsh some time before I blew his reign up, he obviously had no hand in picking Koeman.  Then again, no idea what @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) is referring to re these rumours, so not dismissing the "clean slate" option, either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 05:33:19 PM
By Ďbaggageí was he one of those paedo young coaches?

Christ, as I was on page 2 I was thinking "please, God, please don't let it be diddling 12 year olds"
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:06:50 PM
Thinking about all the players weve signed and vlasic seems to be one of the best of the bunch so far,,a player which came from a team

 we played twice in quick succession so absolutely fuck all to do with walsh or koeman....shame we never played atalanta first as their

 winger gomez looks really good with 16 goals and 91 chances created last year and 3 goals and 21 chances created so far this year

our ross last year scored 5 and created 82 chances

Yeah I agree he's class
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 02, 2017, 06:52:13 PM
The signings wouldn't have looked so bad if we had managed to sign a striker, a LB, a LCB and another winger.

As it is, they look bad as they don't fit into the formation our manager is trying to play.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 02, 2017, 07:29:07 PM
How the fuck anyone on here can answer this I don't know.

Walsh didn't make the decisions at Chelsea. Allardyce made them at Newcastle. At Hull, Pearson was the one deciding. At Leicester it was Pearson and then Ranieri.

Our recruitment structure is so opaque that assessing anything like that is difficult. He's getting a lot of stick for not bringing in a target man to replace Lukaku, but he tried to bring in one in January and one of the reasons Belfodil didn't come through was because Koeman wouldn't sign off on it without meeting the player.

Honestly, who is in a position to know?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on October 02, 2017, 08:31:19 PM
I've got no idea what he or Koeman do with regards to transfers, so no idea who to blame for anything.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 02, 2017, 08:37:12 PM
I've no idea, either!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 02, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
Not really about sacking Walsh.

But would Steve Walsh have any say in whether we would sack Koeman? I know that normally DOFs are involved in hiring managers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Not really about sacking Walsh.

But would Steve Walsh have any say in whether we would sack Koeman? I know that normally DOFs are involved in hiring managers.

He isn't really a Director of Football in the sense that one would normally associate one to be is he? He's head of scouting and recruitment really isn't he. Although the fact no-one knows what his remit is leads us to the situation.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 03, 2017, 01:40:21 AM
How the fuck anyone on here can answer this I don't know.

Walsh didn't make the decisions at Chelsea. Allardyce made them at Newcastle. At Hull, Pearson was the one deciding. At Leicester it was Pearson and then Ranieri.

Our recruitment structure is so opaque that assessing anything like that is difficult. He's getting a lot of stick for not bringing in a target man to replace Lukaku, but he tried to bring in one in January and one of the reasons Belfodil didn't come through was because Koeman wouldn't sign off on it without meeting the player.

Honestly, who is in a position to know?
This is my point too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 03, 2017, 04:12:01 AM
This is my point too.
Not getting a centre forward is obviously a major failing, but there are just too many plausible explanations.

Why didn't we bring one in?

Could we not convince players to join? Did our valuation not meet the selling club/player's wage demands? Our search seemed to focus on target men, was Koeman unwilling to compromise on that? Did Walsh suggest a number of players but couldn't convince Koeman of their worth? Did we ultimately decide that a strike force of Rooney, Sandro, Calvert-Lewin (and Niasse?) was enough to see us okay? Did we decide that developing Calvert-Lewin was a better option than signing the target man 8th down our list? Could we not afford one? Did we dwell too long on our number one choice when it might have been more prudent to wrap up a young potential target man early on as a back up just in case?

We can probably answer a couple of those from interviews and journalist mutterings, but most of them haven't been addressed at all.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 27, 2017, 03:29:37 PM
More and more articles flying around pointing the finger at Walsh and his accountability in Koemanís sacking. I think anything less than a great January transfer window will see him sacked, too. He should be getting players lined-up now but not sure how he can when we donít have a manager to consult.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 03:34:03 PM
My thoughts, too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 03:36:41 PM
More and more articles flying around pointing the finger at Walsh and his accountability in Koeman’s sacking. I think anything less than a great January transfer window will see him sacked, too. He should be getting players lined-up now but not sure how he can when we don’t have a manager to consult.

Articles are there to sell papers and create discussion. It may even be a bit of subtle game play on Koeman's part to leak details to try and salvage his reputation for his next position.

Of course we didn't have a great window but over 50% of the signings I would imagine were Koeman's and how he utilised them was poor in the extreme. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 27, 2017, 03:46:48 PM
Articles are there to sell papers and create discussion. It may even be a bit of subtle game play on Koeman's part to leak details to try and salvage his reputation for his next position.

Of course we didn't have a great window but over 50% of the signings I would imagine were Koeman's and how he utilised them was poor in the extreme.
Be interesting if we scrap his role if we do let him go or persist with a DoF.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 27, 2017, 03:51:26 PM
Said it before. Moyes or whoever he had in his tenure deserves a look for the DoF role. Unearthed some gems in his time here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 27, 2017, 04:03:06 PM
Having a high-profile manager and a lesser know, sycophantic DoF whoís just grateful to be there, wasnít the best pairing. The manager should be accountable to the DoF and the DoF should be a big enough personality to tell the manager where to go if he suggests signing of the Martina standard.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bigmanbob on October 27, 2017, 04:13:19 PM
Someone provide me with a good example where a DOF has worked in the Prem
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 27, 2017, 04:18:28 PM
Someone provide me with a good example where a DOF has worked in the Prem

Southampton, amazingly well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 04:21:49 PM
The DoF has to have the unequivocal backing of the board for it to work. I don't think there is an issue with one in the English game as such, it's just a cultural legacy that the old school manager's don't like to relinquish responsibility. A lot of the younger manager's probably wouldn't have an issue with it at all, in fact they would probably welcome someone else dealing with a lot of the administration side of things.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Major Clanger on October 27, 2017, 04:28:09 PM
The DoF has to have the unequivocal backing of the board for it to work. I don't think there is an issue with one in the English game as such, it's just a cultural legacy that the old school manager's don't like to relinquish responsibility. A lot of the younger manager's probably wouldn't have an issue with it at all, in fact they would probably welcome someone else dealing with a lot of the administration side of things.

Also if you look at the boards, they're mostly amateurs who may be ruthless businessmen in their original area, but turn into starstruck schoolboys when it comes to football.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 27, 2017, 04:28:23 PM
The DoF has to have the unequivocal backing of the board for it to work. I don't think there is an issue with one in the English game as such, it's just a cultural legacy that the old school manager's don't like to relinquish responsibility. A lot of the younger manager's probably wouldn't have an issue with it at all, in fact they would probably welcome someone else dealing with a lot of the administration side of things.

I agree and I dont think Koeman particularly had an issue with it, I just dont think Walsh was strong enough to deal with him
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
I agree and I dont think Koeman particularly had an issue with it, I just dont think Walsh was strong enough to deal with him

The fact they both joined the club at the same time led to the strange dynamic. Walsh was learning about the club, his new role and what was expected of him and Koeman's strength of personality and obvious backing from Moshiri wouldn't have led to a straightforward relationship. I can well see him acquiescing to Koeman during this period.

In my opinion Walsh will probably be wiser in the role now, will have had his authority respected with this managerial change and we should now see more of a better balance with the new manager. I think his role is vital really and it'd be silly to even think of changing him in the near future.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 27, 2017, 04:55:26 PM
The fact they both joined the club at the same time led to the strange dynamic. Walsh was learning about the club, his new role and what was expected of him and Koeman's strength of personality and obvious backing from Moshiri wouldn't have led to a straightforward relationship. I can well see him acquiescing to Koeman during this period.

In my opinion Walsh will probably be wiser in the role now, will have had his authority respected with this managerial change and we should now see more of a better balance with the new manager. I think his role is vital really and it'd be silly to even think of changing him in the near future.

Agree with this. I don't understand a lot about how these relationships work, but the DoF has got to be the big kahuna and take responsibility on behalf of the club if the manager is straying form the board's vision of where the club needs to be headed.

Walsh being established now, any new managers should be easier to keep in line.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on October 27, 2017, 05:33:33 PM
Someone provide me with a good example where a DOF has worked in the Prem
Premier League isn't exactly a good example of forward thinking. Took foreign coaches to even get the players into the same shape as their colleagues in the mainland.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 27, 2017, 05:42:31 PM
I just can't believe Koeman had fuck all to do with signings . Given that they look good ( if a little overpriced in some cases ) on paper then maybe we should wait and see what tune a new Manager gets out of them before sacking Walsh . Martina and Williams are the exceptions and they were both firmly on Koeman I think .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 27, 2017, 05:55:19 PM
The fact they both joined the club at the same time led to the strange dynamic.
I think there are probably parallels to when Ferguson and Gill both left Man Utd at the same time too.

In hindsight, having both a new manager and a Director of Football, both with little experience of conducting transfers, was a disaster waiting to happen. As @Rhys (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=366) suggested the other day, with a more experienced DoF the dynamic might have been a lot more successful.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 06:06:20 PM
I think there are probably parallels to when Ferguson and Gill both left Man Utd at the same time too.

In hindsight, having both a new manager and a Director of Football, both with little experience of conducting transfers, was a disaster waiting to happen. As @Rhys (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=366) suggested the other day, with a more experienced DoF the dynamic might have been a lot more successful.

Even a vastly experienced DoF starting a new job at the same time as a new manager with Koeman's strong personality would have caused issues. It was just unfortunate timing as they both will have wanted to establish their own power base at the same time. Should have been half-expected really, especially with Moshiri's comment of 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants and I support him.' Starstruck much!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 06:41:39 PM
I have only just realised that this Steve Walsh is not the Steve Walsh(hard bastard!) that played for Leicester!

Our Steve Walsh is very close to and by all accounts has a good understanding with Nigel Pearson(another tough bastard!), whom he had worked with for many years

Pearson? Now there's a thought...................... .....!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: everton1952 on October 27, 2017, 06:46:41 PM
Didn't Pearson recently start a new job somewhere abroad?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: boothill on October 27, 2017, 06:48:20 PM
I have only just realised that this Steve Walsh is not the Steve Walsh(hard bastard!) that played for Leicester!

Our Steve Walsh is very close to and by all accounts has a good understanding with Nigel Pearson(another tough bastard!), whom he had worked with for many years

Pearson? Now there's a thought...................... .....!
The 1 that was attempting to disembowl wise and his rent boys ? No shit, is it that 1 ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 06:48:58 PM
Don't know!

Thought he lived in Sheffield!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: boothill on October 27, 2017, 06:55:02 PM
Don't know!

Thought he lived in Sheffield!
Its him, just looked back over his career, didnt take many prisoners. him ,pearson,taggart, the 1 out of right said fred, bloody big hard team that o'niell put together there
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 07:14:07 PM
A right bunch of hard nuts!

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 07:33:22 PM
Its him, just looked back over his career, didnt take many prisoners. him ,pearson,taggart, the 1 out of right said fred, bloody big hard team that o'niell put together there

And Emile Heskey.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on October 27, 2017, 07:35:53 PM
Not seen any articles about Walsh @GrantyBoy78 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=332) can you put the links up?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 07:49:48 PM
The Ranieri/Shakespeare/Walsh success is quite interesting because it was originally Pearson/Shakespeare/Walsh; maybe Ranieri just rode that wave?

Not unlike our first season under Martinez, riding the Moyes wave
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 27, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
Pearson currently manages OH Leuven in the Belgian First Division B; a club also owned by King Power.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 08:02:03 PM
Interesting - as King Power must have sacked him from the Leicester job
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on October 27, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
I think Walsh has got a major problem on his hands with Koeman going...
He's obviously been tasked with finding a striker....problem is not who he buys so much as will the new manager like/want whomsoever he ends up buying...

could end up with egg on his chin big time here......spends £40/50 million on X and the new guy wants Y......

on the flip side signing a striker in January could indicate that a new manager is imminent...
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 27, 2017, 08:25:44 PM
I think Walsh has got a major problem on his hands with Koeman going...
He's obviously been tasked with finding a striker....problem is not who he buys so much as will the new manager like/want whomsoever he ends up buying...

could end up with egg on his chin big time here......spends £40/50 million on X and the new guy wants Y......

on the flip side signing a striker in January could indicate that a new manager is imminent...

Egg on his chin??

(https://media.giphy.com/media/SDxzM5LAVq5Tq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on October 27, 2017, 09:02:00 PM
haven't you ever heard that before ?

over here in Yorkshire they say..."end up wi'egg under t'hat..."
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 09:07:17 PM
Chin up, don't want egg on our faces or our jaws will hit the floor

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 27, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
Honestly don't even know what's going on in here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue slug on October 27, 2017, 10:49:40 PM
its fast becoming an eggscruciating eggsperience

Sorry I'll get my coat
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: di_guyo on October 27, 2017, 10:51:16 PM
I remember being ridiculed for suggesting in the summer that Walsh hadn't done anything...lolz.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 27, 2017, 10:59:50 PM
The biggest problem I see with Steve Walsh is that nobody seems to know what he really does.

And "nobody" may very well include Moshiri and Kenwright.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 27, 2017, 11:02:02 PM
I remember being ridiculed for suggesting in the summer that Walsh hadn't done anything...lolz.

what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on October 27, 2017, 11:04:31 PM
I am unsure to what it is he actually does, but to me it SEEMS like he is getting a DOF wage for basically being a glorified scout.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:26:37 PM
Even a vastly experienced DoF starting a new job at the same time as a new manager with Koeman's strong personality would have caused issues. It was just unfortunate timing as they both will have wanted to establish their own power base at the same time. Should have been half-expected really, especially with Moshiri's comment of 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants and I support him.' Starstruck much!
Good except he said he was happy with the transfers being someone else's jurisdiction
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
The biggest problem I see with Steve Walsh is that nobody seems to know what he really does.

And "nobody" may very well include Moshiri and Kenwright.
Being a nobody would give an insight then!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:30:52 PM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
That is sexist Liz and I demand a retraction .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 27, 2017, 11:31:41 PM
That is sexist Liz and I demand a retraction .

denied.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:42:41 PM
denied.
Well I fully understand ,the way I portrayed it must have been sexist
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 11:51:29 PM
I am unsure to what it is he actually does, but to me it SEEMS like he is getting a DOF wage for basically being a glorified scout.

Contradiction much.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 28, 2017, 12:02:35 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

OMG
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 28, 2017, 12:14:42 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
Makes me vom
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: di_guyo on October 28, 2017, 12:47:50 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

I sincerely apologise for offending you with my language.

*bore off
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 28, 2017, 01:03:08 AM
The biggest problem I see with Steve Walsh is that nobody seems to know what he really does.

And "nobody" may very well include Moshiri and Kenwright.

Thought it's fairly obvious what he does and what his remit is.

He's responsible for recruitment, scouting and long term value of the squad. Basically authority on player trading, with a view to increasing the value of the squad through transfers.

From there each DoF and manager has a different relationship, with some DoF more willing to bend or accomodate.

But Giroud is a fairly obvious bone of contention for a DoF. He's going to cost a fair amount of money and he's going to take time away from young players who could be developing. At the end he will have minimal resale value.

I think the best way to judge Walsh is on the transfers. All of them, because ultimately he is not just individually responsible in most cases, but holistically responsible.

I think we are in a similar period to other teams before who have done wholesale changes to first team squad. There is little identity or cohesion and it falls apart every way you cut it.

But I think in terms of Walsh remit, I think he's identified a lot of young talented players.

Last summer we signed established players, Williams, Gana, Bolasie. But in Jan we added Lookman and DCL. This summer we've added Pickford, Keane, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru. All players intended to go into first team, but their first major move.

I don't see Cuco, Rooney or Sigurdsson as our problems. Rooney has chipped in with goals, and we shouldn't have been expecting him to carry the team and I'd rather he stopped trying to same extent. Sigurdsson looks a turd in the punch bowl because of the fee, but actually he's a very useful player if used to his strengths. Cuco has got a fair amount of stick, because Koeman liked him, but he cost next to sod all and he's got an engine that allows us to link play, I've seen worse defenders.

I think time will prove that Walsh acquired good players, I think for Koeman, there just wasn't enough off the shelf options immediately. Part of Walsh's remit is to look at development and longer term to avoid too many Rooney's, Giroud's coming in. We've got a lot of more experienced players since Walsh's arrival, so it's not like he's averse to experience. About half the players we've bought have been 26 or over.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Running Blue on October 28, 2017, 07:18:14 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

Is it only women who are supposed to laugh these days?  In all fairness, you're only doing what women do best.  Complaining.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jamokachi on October 28, 2017, 07:36:34 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

It's fucking infuriating.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 28, 2017, 01:24:03 PM
Thought it's fairly obvious what he does and what his remit is.

He's responsible for recruitment, scouting and long term value of the squad. Basically authority on player trading, with a view to increasing the value of the squad through transfers.

From there each DoF and manager has a different relationship, with some DoF more willing to bend or accomodate.

But Giroud is a fairly obvious bone of contention for a DoF. He's going to cost a fair amount of money and he's going to take time away from young players who could be developing. At the end he will have minimal resale value.

I think the best way to judge Walsh is on the transfers. All of them, because ultimately he is not just individually responsible in most cases, but holistically responsible.

I think we are in a similar period to other teams before who have done wholesale changes to first team squad. There is little identity or cohesion and it falls apart every way you cut it.

But I think in terms of Walsh remit, I think he's identified a lot of young talented players.

Last summer we signed established players, Williams, Gana, Bolasie. But in Jan we added Lookman and DCL. This summer we've added Pickford, Keane, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru. All players intended to go into first team, but their first major move.

I don't see Cuco, Rooney or Sigurdsson as our problems. Rooney has chipped in with goals, and we shouldn't have been expecting him to carry the team and I'd rather he stopped trying to same extent. Sigurdsson looks a turd in the punch bowl because of the fee, but actually he's a very useful player if used to his strengths. Cuco has got a fair amount of stick, because Koeman liked him, but he cost next to sod all and he's got an engine that allows us to link play, I've seen worse defenders.

I think time will prove that Walsh acquired good players, I think for Koeman, there just wasn't enough off the shelf options immediately. Part of Walsh's remit is to look at development and longer term to avoid too many Rooney's, Giroud's coming in. We've got a lot of more experienced players since Walsh's arrival, so it's not like he's averse to experience. About half the players we've bought have been 26 or over.
Walsh has bought some very good players and we certainly have some youngsters who can go all the way. My issues with him are:

1. Allowed too much turnover of playing staff
2. Hasnít addressed glaring issues such as striker and LB
3. Hasnít signed a low profile Ďwho the fuck is he? Oh, heís really fucking good!í player from abroad - whereís the scouting genius?

As much as not getting a striker grabs the headlines, itís only having one LB at the club which really pisses me off. Itís bordering on gross negligence. And itís not like weíre short of money? If Walsh canít find a young LB that can share Bainesí workload with a view to establishing himself as a starter, then whyís he here?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 28, 2017, 02:06:22 PM
Walsh has bought some very good players and we certainly have some youngsters who can go all the way. My issues with him are:

1. Allowed too much turnover of playing staff
2. Hasnít addressed glaring issues such as striker and LB
3. Hasnít signed a low profile Ďwho the fuck is he? Oh, heís really fucking good!í player from abroad - whereís the scouting genius?

As much as not getting a striker grabs the headlines, itís only having one LB at the club which really pisses me off. Itís bordering on gross negligence. And itís not like weíre short of money? If Walsh canít find a young LB that can share Bainesí workload with a view to establishing himself as a starter, then whyís he here?

Think someone deserves a lot of credit for gueye sandro (who I still think will come good) and the lad we've got on loan in Belgium. Think the days of completely unheard of players is over. I can watch football from probably 15 different countries this weekend. There's no completely unknowns now
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 28, 2017, 03:06:22 PM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

This.

Freedom of speech, express yourself etc but 'USE YOUR WORDS FFS'!

If you want to be milleninnial - use a funny gif - but not too many in one post because those who use mobile phones will lose their shit. Take it from me.

P.S.   - FFS is allowed. So is P.S. because it's proper.

 :snigger:



Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 28, 2017, 03:24:22 PM
Thought it's fairly obvious what he does and what his remit is.

He's responsible for recruitment, scouting and long term value of the squad. Basically authority on player trading, with a view to increasing the value of the squad through transfers.

From there each DoF and manager has a different relationship, with some DoF more willing to bend or accomodate.

But Giroud is a fairly obvious bone of contention for a DoF. He's going to cost a fair amount of money and he's going to take time away from young players who could be developing. At the end he will have minimal resale value.

I think the best way to judge Walsh is on the transfers. All of them, because ultimately he is not just individually responsible in most cases, but holistically responsible.

I think we are in a similar period to other teams before who have done wholesale changes to first team squad. There is little identity or cohesion and it falls apart every way you cut it.

But I think in terms of Walsh remit, I think he's identified a lot of young talented players.

Last summer we signed established players, Williams, Gana, Bolasie. But in Jan we added Lookman and DCL. This summer we've added Pickford, Keane, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru. All players intended to go into first team, but their first major move.

I don't see Cuco, Rooney or Sigurdsson as our problems. Rooney has chipped in with goals, and we shouldn't have been expecting him to carry the team and I'd rather he stopped trying to same extent. Sigurdsson looks a turd in the punch bowl because of the fee, but actually he's a very useful player if used to his strengths. Cuco has got a fair amount of stick, because Koeman liked him, but he cost next to sod all and he's got an engine that allows us to link play, I've seen worse defenders.

I think time will prove that Walsh acquired good players, I think for Koeman, there just wasn't enough off the shelf options immediately. Part of Walsh's remit is to look at development and longer term to avoid too many Rooney's, Giroud's coming in. We've got a lot of more experienced players since Walsh's arrival, so it's not like he's averse to experience. About half the players we've bought have been 26 or over.

Fucking excellent post sir! I feel compelled to thank you for it. This has laid out to me in a well thought out and structured way what Walsh is probably tasked with. Makes sense.

I still wonder though how he is measured. What are the indicators of how good a job he is doing? I think there are probably quite a few areas he will be judged against, not all of them complimentary so I think it may be quite difficult to measure exactly how successful he's being:

Value of squad against money spent
Age of squad
Success of individuals brought in
Success of first team as a whole
Position of team in table against last year
Depth of squad per position
Successful aquisitions of Tier 1 targets against 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices

It doesn't seem to be a straightforward role to measure. He may have brought in a player who has been great individually but use of that player by the manager could fuck up the shape and be a detriment overall to the team performance. We've seen it before where you have one really good player but the team play better without him.

It may be that he failed to get the first choice target for a position - bad mark for Steve - but the alternative he brought in could have been a real success - good work Steve!

The position of the squad could be improved by a couple of established players but then the value of the squad and the age of the squad have gone further away from where we want to be.

I think it's a real balancing act, even contradictory at times, so with respect to the thread title - I think something this complex needs a lot more time to get right and with the right person in the role (fingers crossed we have that) it should improve year on year - but if we sack too quickly, I think we take big steps backwards and the next person has to start almost from scratch.

It seems to me from Ridge's post that this is a role that should be judged over 5 years rather than 1. I know - that makes me nervous too - 5 years is a long time to be doing it wrong - but I don't think we can see too much wrong apart from 1 area - league position - and that is more directly affected by the manager.

Let's hope the good stuff we have seen from this year is improved on each window.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on October 28, 2017, 03:40:36 PM
It's hard to fully judge how well Walsh has done as we do not know how some of he younger players will do but I guess we 'll see over the next couple of seasons.

However I assume that he was primarily brought in to ensure debacles like last transfer window didn't happen.

I mean we have pretty much overpaid for everyone and the signings have been lazy to say the least...this laziness has cost us so much money. Were there no better value options than siggy at 45m ? Keane and Pickford for 60m ? Do me a favour.

There is a lot if talk of the young players brought in also but let's not forget we 've paid a lot if money for them also and they are hardly setting the world alight.

For me if he was in charge of recruitment then he has failed miserably....not bringing in players in key positions has cost us a whole season. Koeman was crap but i think they should have both gone as they were seemingly joint mistakes made by the Chuckle brothers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Frevski on October 28, 2017, 04:50:35 PM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on October 28, 2017, 05:18:51 PM
Is it only women who are supposed to laugh these days?  In all fairness, you're only doing what women do best.  Complaining.
Said whilst having a go at a woman ......😅😅😅irony impairment is a gift for some .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 28, 2017, 05:55:43 PM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.
Walsh was in Milan negotiating deals. Nothing transpired.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Frevski on October 28, 2017, 06:04:01 PM
Walsh was in Milan negotiating deals. Nothing transpired.
Like is said how much of that was initial negotiator/due diligence.  As hasn't Moshri brought in some of his own team since the summer to help drive us forward.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on October 28, 2017, 06:55:09 PM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.
Agree this to a certain extent but you would have thought it would be walshs job to identify a player then place a a max  value on them. Ie x player would be a good addition up to 25m etc.

I don't think we can blame the top men for backing the manager and Walsh and getting their targets.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 28, 2017, 11:23:16 PM
Thought id take a look at that belfoldi dude from std liege we nearly signed,,he's now on loan to w bremen and outta 12 games for both he's scored once in a cup game...i think koeman got that one right
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 28, 2017, 11:26:24 PM
Thought id take a look at that belfoldi dude from std liege we nearly signed,,he's now on loan to w bremen and outta 12 games for both he's scored once in a cup game...i think koeman got that one right
He wouldnt have been signed for his goals, his record in general shows that
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 28, 2017, 11:34:09 PM
Honestly don't even know what's going on in here.


Stay out of the who should we go for thread. Theyíre talking about fighting Katie Price for some reason.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 29, 2017, 12:09:10 AM
He wouldnt have been signed for his goals, his record in general shows that
 

1 Goal in 12 and no assists this year,,last year 6 goals no assists..... we wernt buying him for his assists either i gather
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 29, 2017, 12:24:26 AM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.

Surely a major part of Walsh's job is to indicate what is a fair price for the players he identifies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 29, 2017, 01:28:54 AM
Stay out of the who should we go for thread. Theyíre talking about fighting Katie Price for some reason.

Brilliant.

It has gone a bit 'my dad's bigger than your dad' in there, weirdly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 29, 2017, 01:54:14 AM
Walsh has bought some very good players and we certainly have some youngsters who can go all the way. My issues with him are:

1. Allowed too much turnover of playing staff
2. Hasnít addressed glaring issues such as striker and LB
3. Hasnít signed a low profile Ďwho the fuck is he? Oh, heís really fucking good!í player from abroad - whereís the scouting genius?

As much as not getting a striker grabs the headlines, itís only having one LB at the club which really pisses me off. Itís bordering on gross negligence. And itís not like weíre short of money? If Walsh canít find a young LB that can share Bainesí workload with a view to establishing himself as a starter, then whyís he here?

1. That's more Koeman. He probably wanted Niasse, McCarthy, Barkley sold as well and is complaining about not getting others. Koeman didn't have to change entire first team, we only sold a couple of key first team players, yet he played 7-8 new ones each game.
2. We have more options than last year in those places, Lukaku was always going to be difficult to replace. DCL, Sandro, Niasse and Rooney offer strength in numbers and options. We were never going to be able to find a like for like replacement for Lukaku, there isn't one. Garbutt might be a decent left back given a chance and we only signed Lewis Gibson few months back.
3. Most hadn't heard much about Sandro. Nobody really noticed Vlasic, even when he played against us. Lookman was not someone I was aware of. Onyekuru was someone I knew was highly rated, but a fair bit obscure.

I thought first summer we didn't actually get that many of the type of exciting young player you wanted, Sambou in under 23s. But this year I thought we definitely did. DCL, Lookman in January, Vlasic, Sandro, Pickford, Klaassen, Keane, Onyekuru in summer. Then we also added 5 more players to under 23s, Adeniran, Bowler, Gibson, Mathis, Markelo.

At Leicester it wasn't overnight that Mahrez, Vardy were success stories, it takes time to settle and talent to emerge. Walsh is able to attract young talented players from higher up the chain, but whether he is right on some or wrong on them all, we'll have to see.

Just think a lot of the players need to be thought of as not finished article, but with potential to grow into. This summer I think there is a lot of that, it's just not reached the surface yet, and that's to be expected initially. But Vlasic, Pickford look ready and I think we'll start to see others coming through over the season and some further in future than that. Onyekuru for example will probably need next season to settle and adjust, so probably looking 2 seasons down the line before performances justify faith and expectations.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 01:54:54 PM
I know it comes from the sun but if itís true Walsh wants Allardyce then Sack him IMMEDIATELY!... at least Moshie seems to have the right idea with Silva & Tuchel, if unsies not ready.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/10/29/report-steve-walsh-wants-everton-to-appoint-allardyce-and-shakes/
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 01:58:27 PM
Me thinks someone is putting two and two together there and getting some random shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 02:10:05 PM
Me thinks someone is putting two and two together there and getting some random shit.

Hope so for his sake, he needs to set the record straight thou and stop hiding away like a propa soft shite. Director of Football wedge and hasnít said a fuckin word.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 03:09:38 PM
Hope so for his sake, he needs to set the record straight thou and stop hiding away like a propa soft shite. Director of Football wedge and hasnít said a fuckin word.

What would you like him to say?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 29, 2017, 03:57:03 PM
I know it comes from the sun but if itís true Walsh wants Allardyce then Sack him IMMEDIATELY!... at least Moshie seems to have the right idea with Silva & Tuchel, if unsies not ready.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/10/29/report-steve-walsh-wants-everton-to-appoint-allardyce-and-shakes/

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but if we can't find the manager we want now, then I wouldn't mind Allardyce until the end of the season. It won't be pretty to watch but he will get us a top half finish. Then in the summer there will be a lot more managers for us to choose from. I'd rather we wait till the summer and get the next manager right than make do with a Dyche type now just because he is what's available.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion, but if we can't find the manager we want now, then I wouldn't mind Allardyce until the end of the season. It won't be pretty to watch but he will get us a top half finish. Then in the summer there will be a lot more managers for us to choose from. I'd rather we wait till the summer and get the next manager right than make do with a Dyche type now just because he is what's available.
I've backed him at 12/1

I can see unsworth staying I'm charge for 6 games, we will win some and lose some and still be around the bottom 6 and moshiri will brick it and go for Allardyce
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on October 29, 2017, 04:10:13 PM
We donít have a forward to lump it to so his standard formula wouldnít work anyway.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2017, 04:13:16 PM
We don't have a forward to lump it to so his standard formula wouldn't work anyway.
First signing in January
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 29, 2017, 04:16:38 PM
Is Carlton Cole no longer available?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 09:46:34 PM
What would you like him to say?

Explain the transfer master plan, the Italian task force achievements....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 09:47:49 PM
Explain the transfer master plan, the Italian task force achievements....

Why should he have to? He'll explain that to the people who pay his wages.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 10:45:38 PM
Why should he have to? He'll explain that to the people who pay his wages.

Nah ya right, why should he have to explain himself! DOF must be a Banker/Politician role then, my bad.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 29, 2017, 11:53:44 PM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 30, 2017, 03:53:38 AM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone
Which one? We had two, donít forget.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 04:00:59 AM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone

If he had any real say in the building of that first team squad he should go. The 3 10s and the massive holes at left back and striker are just unacceptable. i can understand getting it wrong and signing a bad player. An idiot knows you need a striker though. An idiot knows we need at least cover at left back. I'm genuinely not sure what they were thinking. Its unexplainable. 100 times worse than what Spurs did with the bale money. Least they signed players for the positions they actually needed. We'd still be fucked if our signings were individual successes
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Stumpy on October 30, 2017, 04:48:54 AM
Without a shadow of doubt he should be sacked.To be left with the pathetic powder puff strikers that we have is a fucking disgrace.None of the crap that we have leading our line would get in any other premiership team.It's beyond belief that this is the best that him and koeman could do,the level of ineptness is fucking staggering.God help the guy that gets the job full time because whoever it is stuck with this dross until Janruary.I'm scared whitless and there's nobody to blame other than them two clowns.For the first time in decades we have had real money to spend,and we've pissed it away.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 30, 2017, 05:28:13 AM
What really fucking winds me up is; we signed 3 No.10s yet we are the least creative football team I think I have ever witnessed. Absolutely pathetic standard of football on offer today. I was happy to give Walsh the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more I think he should fall on his sword like Koeman has.

To not address the massive holes in the squad is not just footballing suicide, it is an actual dereliction of duty.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 30, 2017, 06:04:28 AM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone

For the squad to be in the shape that it is - if I left my company looking at a key trading period as woefully under armed I would be sacked I think.

Borderline negligent, amateur-hour stuff.

Get a real stats dept, get someone who trusts that kind of work, get a real DOF and lets set out from day one what everyone does and why...we shouldn't be sat here saying who did that who did this why sign him where was the blah blah - unreal that it was allowed.

Tell you what this root and branch analysis I've heard Moshiri wants to conduct better involve a hefty bit of introspection.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 06:09:34 AM
There is also the rumour that the only signings that were 100% start to finish from Walsh were Vlasic, Sandro and Onyekuru. Apparently all the rest were from Koemans list.

Could be complete bollocks, but them 3 signings in particular do seem to stand out from all the rest.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 30, 2017, 01:56:04 PM
I think we need to sack whoever decided our 2nd 3rd and 4th choice strikers were too expensive, even if we had to pay twice what they were worth it would look like money well invested at the moment.

The biggest worry for me is that everyone could see the writing on the wall in the summer, unless we replaced Rom we were going to struggle for goals, yet our board allowed this to happen. In my lifetime of watching Everton this almost ranks up there with Kings Dock with regards to mismanagement at the top, we were on the crest of a wave and this decision could relegate us.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 30, 2017, 02:14:40 PM
There is also the rumour that the only signings that were 100% start to finish from Walsh were Vlasic, Sandro and Onyekuru. Apparently all the rest were from Koemans list.

Could be complete bollocks, but them 3 signings in particular do seem to stand out from all the rest.
Moshiri live on sky was telling jim shite the same thing or as good as,stating that the signings were RK,s.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on October 30, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
It's not even the Failure to replace tom. We all knew that was impossible. But to not even attempt to get a body in, even a yard dog is unforgIveable. I don't even recognise any of the players we have a strikers. They're all variations of attacking mids
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Trowel on October 30, 2017, 02:28:01 PM
I got the impression our failed move for Kolasinac was also driven by Walsh (see, we did try to replace Baines!), and he's done alright with Arsenal.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 30, 2017, 02:35:44 PM
Moshiri live on sky was telling jim shite the same thing or as good as,stating that the signings were RK,s.

Well this confuses me even more then and is arguably even more worrying, what does Walsh do? The DoF should oversea all recruitment and have overall sign off, yes that should be done in collaboration with the manager but in what system would you have one person signing a certain amount of players and another doing what he likes?

Ill tell you where, Everton, and look where we are......
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on October 30, 2017, 02:37:00 PM
I got the impression our failed move for Kolasinac was also driven by Walsh (see, we did try to replace Baines!), and he's done alright with Arsenal.
Kolasinac agreed to sign with Arsenal way before the window even opened so he had enough time to identify another target.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2017, 02:39:47 PM
There is also the rumour that the only signings that were 100% start to finish from Walsh were Vlasic, Sandro and Onyekuru. Apparently all the rest were from Koemans list.

Could be complete bollocks, but them 3 signings in particular do seem to stand out from all the rest.

Stand out in what way?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 02:58:37 PM
Stand out in what way?

Young, relatively unknown, cheap.

It's not that difficult to see the difference in the type of signings Walsh wants.

Gueye, DCL, Lookman, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru, Pickford all fit the mould of young and cheap. (Apart from Pickford, but looks worth the money and not overpriced in today's market)

Then the signings rumoured to be more pushed by Koeman.
Bolasie, Williams, Schneiderlin, Stekelenburg, Sigurdsson, Keane, Klaassen,  Rooney, Martina. There's a distinct difference between the 2.

As I said though, could be complete bollocks and Walsh actyally sanctioned them all, good to debate it though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 30, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
Well this confuses me even more then and is arguably even more worrying, what does Walsh do? The DoF should oversea all recruitment and have overall sign off, yes that should be done in collaboration with the manager but in what system would you have one person signing a certain amount of players and another doing what he likes?

Ill tell you where, Everton, and look where we are......
RK,s system of throwing people under the bus also included Walsh in press conferences and tv interviews during the window,on that score you would assume Walsh was culpable in the window and yet he remains at club.We really dont know the whole story,but clearly the two were at odds.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 03:49:39 PM
I think we need to sack whoever decided our 2nd 3rd and 4th choice strikers were too expensive, even if we had to pay twice what they were worth it would look like money well invested at the moment.

The biggest worry for me is that everyone could see the writing on the wall in the summer, unless we replaced Rom we were going to struggle for goals, yet our board allowed this to happen. In my lifetime of watching Everton this almost ranks up there with Kings Dock with regards to mismanagement at the top, we were on the crest of a wave and this decision could relegate us.

That's the thing. People keep calling it amateur but it's a lot worse than that. Every single amateur could see it coming. It's simply unexplainable that anyone who's watched a few football matches thought we could survive half a season without a striker. It's inept and that might be being kind
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 04:26:56 PM
I refuse to believe Walsh didn't have a striker shortlist after every man and his dog knew Lukaku was going. It was the one position we needed to strengthen. There must have been differences of opinion between him and Koeman for us to land no-one. We don't know Walsh's full remit but I'm not having that he couldn't identify anyone other than Giroud.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on October 30, 2017, 05:43:21 PM
I wish we'd stop speculating about who was a Ron signing and who was a Walsh signing.

None of us have the faintest clue as to the backroom set-up, division of responsibilities and working relationship between DoF and manager.

All we can say for sure is it didn't work but we're not in a position to apportion blame for the above reason.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
Taken in their entirety have any of our transfer windows been a success since Moshiri took over?

Martinez left a seriously disjointed squad in need of reshaping and we haven't managed it despite spending over £200m. First off we sold Stones but didn't spend a penny that window bringing in an ageing Williams, hit and miss Bolasie, Stek and Gueye.

January we bought Lookman who has hardly had a sniff and Schneiderlin who after a decent first half dozen games picked up niggly injuries and has hardly done anything since.

This summer's debacle has been discussed at length. 

This 'root and branch' review Moshiri has mentioned is long overdue but maybe he should look in the mirror too, as every window he's come out and shown his lack of football knowledge and poor judgement by talking shite to football reporters and pundits to attempt to explain away one cock-up after another.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
I wish we'd stop speculating about who was a Ron signing and who was a Walsh signing.

None of us have the faintest clue as to the backroom set-up, division of responsibilities and working relationship between DoF and manager.

All we can say for sure is it didn't work but we're not in a position to apportion blame for the above reason.

Boring that though isn't it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 07:17:27 PM
I wish we'd stop speculating about who was a Ron signing and who was a Walsh signing.

None of us have the faintest clue as to the backroom set-up, division of responsibilities and working relationship between DoF and manager.

All we can say for sure is it didn't work but we're not in a position to apportion blame for the above reason.

It's a forum. If we are only speaking on what we are an authority on we won't have much to talk about
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Gary1878 on October 30, 2017, 07:28:25 PM
In reality what is most likely to have happened is that they sat down on a regular basis together, thrashed out the positions required in the squad, and then Walsh went away and got a shortlist together.

They then both would have sat down again to discuss the best of the shortlist, got agreement from Moshiri, and put in bids for them.

I believe they are both responsible, and it is unlikely that the majority of the signings were made on a individual basis without the prior agreement of the other person.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Stumpy on October 30, 2017, 07:39:08 PM
That's the thing. People keep calling it amateur but it's a lot worse than that. Every single amateur could see it coming. It's simply unexplainable that anyone who's watched a few football matches thought we could survive half a season without a striker. It's inept and that might be being kind

I've just got off the phone to my mate ,and said exactly the same thing to him,it's beyond amateurism.It's unbelievable that it can happen at any premiership club never mind everton.Not a single striker at the club worthy of a start.How the fuck can that happen at a top professional club.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 08:08:45 PM
I've just got off the phone to my mate ,and said exactly the same thing to him,it's beyond amateurism.It's unbelievable that it can happen at any premiership club never mind everton.Not a single striker at the club worthy of a start.How the fuck can that happen at a top professional club.

I'm sure, as the weeks progress, we'll have a few details slip out either from the club or Koeman's camp. Both sides will want to try and distance themselves from blame as we slip further into the mire.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 30, 2017, 08:27:54 PM
I'm sure, as the weeks progress, we'll have a few details slip out either from the club or Koeman's camp. Both sides will want to try and distance themselves from blame as we slip further into the mire.
Koemans already said we had giroud in the building. I have no issues with that and transfers breakdown all the time but where was plan b c d and e
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 09:09:05 PM
Koemans already said we had giroud in the building. I have no issues with that and transfers breakdown all the time but where was plan b c d and e

True. It's like we put it all on Plan A and whilst we may have been confident of that coming off it's usually pretty prudent to have a back up plan. Or two.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Stumpy on October 30, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
I'm sure, as the weeks progress, we'll have a few details slip out either from the club or Koeman's camp. Both sides will want to try and distance themselves from blame as we slip further into the mire.
Oh without doubt the buck will be passed back and for from either camp.It matters not now who's at fault,the bottom line is we've been left with a shambles of a forward line.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 31, 2017, 03:33:20 AM
Oh without doubt the buck will be passed back and for from either camp.It matters not now who's at fault,the bottom line is we've been left with a shambles of a forward line.
I think it does matter though if the culprit is still there functioning within the club, which in my opinion he is.  I see little to no reason how Koeman could be implicated in any failure to secure a striker, with the exception that his list entailed players that were so far out of reach they weren't realistic, but considering Giroud was our main target and he was in the building I cant see it.

I can't categorically state that it was Walsh's fault either, but whoever it is that does the negotiating and deals with transfers should be fired, regardless of who they are.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 31, 2017, 03:41:40 AM
I think it does matter though if the culprit is still there functioning within the club, which in my opinion he is.  I see little to no reason how Koeman could be implicated in any failure to secure a striker, with the exception that his list entailed players that were so far out of reach they weren't realistic, but considering Giroud was our main target and he was in the building I cant see it.

I can't categorically state that it was Walsh's fault either, but whoever it is that does the negotiating and deals with transfers should be fired, regardless of who they are.

I think koeman is a little spoilt he wanted who he wanted and there wasn't much room to deviate from it. I tend to blame koeman directly but then it does lead to the question of is Walsh weak and have the roles of manager and DOF been set out right. Think it's a mess both of individuals and the overall structures making
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 31, 2017, 03:54:57 AM
I think koeman is a little spoilt he wanted who he wanted and there wasn't much room to deviate from it. I tend to blame koeman directly but then it does lead to the question of is Walsh weak and have the roles of manager and DOF been set out right. Think it's a mess both of individuals and the overall structures making

Which means the real problem is even higher up.

Give you a clue - he smiled and waved at the camera as Sanchez goal hit the back of the fucking net.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 31, 2017, 03:57:46 AM
Which means the real problem is even higher up.

Give you a clue - he smiled and waved at the camera as Sanchez goal hit the back of the fucking net.

I'd fucked off to the gym by then. Was it moshiri? I tend to think he knows fuck all about football right down to actually not knowing that he knows fuck all about football.
We've gone to being a shambolic business to fixing that and being shambolic in football matters
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 31, 2017, 04:15:49 AM
I'd fucked off to the gym by then. Was it moshiri? I tend to think he knows fuck all about football right down to actually not knowing that he knows fuck all about football.
We've gone to being a shambolic business to fixing that and being shambolic in football matters

Shite at both imo
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 02:06:09 AM
I would love to hear his thoughts on the make-up of this squad and why we bought who we bought.

This team has no strengths.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: School of Science on November 03, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
I would love to hear his thoughts on the make-up of this squad and why we bought who we bought.

This team has no strengths.

Think he'd plead the fifth amendment, he'd have to because there can be no answers to that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 03, 2017, 02:14:11 AM
Guilt by association, fuck him off
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on November 03, 2017, 02:15:40 AM
Our recruitment policy seems to be 'sign all the Prem's shite team's best players and see how that goes'.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 02:16:21 AM
Our recruitment policy seems to be 'sign all the Prem's shite team's best players and see how that goes'.

Bonus points if they're old.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 03, 2017, 02:19:45 AM
Yeah. I have had ample time to think about this and I have come to the conclusion that he is a completely boring dullard of a man who is in way over his head and was appointed on the back of Leicesters freak title win.

Given a job title he completely does not warrant and hasn't a fucking clue what hes doing.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:20:28 AM
Our recruitment policy seems to be 'sign all the Prem's shite team's best players and see how that goes'.

Well Koeman did say more than once he wanted to sign players who had 'good stats' so we bought three players who have good stats, Sig/Sandro/Klaassan without thinking about how we could get them into the team. It's almost as if we bought them on that basis and threw them together and hoped it'd work.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 03, 2017, 02:22:40 AM
Well Koeman did say more than once he wanted to sign players who had 'good stats' so we bought three players who have good stats, Sig/Sandro/Klaassan without thinking about how we could get them into the team. It's almost as if we bought them on that basis and threw them together and hoped it'd work.
Its a joke.

I think he has to go as we have surely just had the worst pound for pound transfer window in prem history ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: School of Science on November 03, 2017, 02:48:34 AM
Guilt by association, fuck him off

Should have been sacked with Koeman both were culpable for  A. No striker B. No centre half. C. No right back or Left back. D. Three number tens acquired.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 02:48:49 AM
Surely the first thing Koeman said to Walsh was Ďfind me the next VVD, the next Mane, the next Pelleí? Not easy but I donít get why we ended up with some of the players we did and why I blame Walsh more than Koeman. RK was left with players that canít play the way heís historically set his teams up...which defies logic and is surely indicative of interference from Walsh/Moshiri.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:59:35 AM
Was it even a necessary appointment in the first place at the time we made it? A new manager and a new DoF at the same time wasn't the greatest move, especially when the more senior appointment is a step up and the manager is a Hollywood name with a strong personality.

I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing but when you run large businesses you need to be employing the best brains at the top of the tree to spot any potential issues before they arise. Knowing the historic issues that have arisen in English football with this structure it needs to be a very careful appointment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:07:32 AM
Was it even a necessary appointment in the first place at the time we made it? A new manager and a new DoF at the same time wasn't the greatest move, especially when the more senior appointment is a step up and the manager is a Hollywood name with a strong personality.

I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing but when you run large businesses you need to be employing the best brains at the top of the tree to spot any potential issues before they arise. Knowing the historic issues that have arisen in English football with this structure it needs to be a very careful appointment.

Koeman has always worked with a DoF so donít see a way around that.

Plus his role will be beyond player recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:11:46 AM
Koeman has always worked with a DoF so don’t see a way around that.

Plus his role will be beyond player recruitment.

My point was about Walsh. Was/is this role too big for him? Was it the right appointment at the wrong time? Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere and the blame can't be lay solely at any one individual.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 03:12:05 AM
I need a Mane, a Pelle, a VVD and Vic the Brick.

Also looking at Evertonís squad over the last 15 years, Iím going to need a new Leighton, a new Seamus and finally a new Lukaku.

do you mean THE Wayne Rooney? Of course I would like to sign him and none of the above.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:24:28 AM
My point was about Walsh. Was/is this role too big for him? Was it the right appointment at the wrong time? Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere and the blame can't be lay solely at any one individual.

Yes but you can always get two individuals who donít get on.

Maybe thereís an issue that BK is still doing the final negotiations.

If Sigurdsson has been done in a week (weíve probably lost £5m on league positions) surely weíd have had time to get after a back plan for Giroud etc.

Think it would be massively rash to get shut of both and be faced with a double change again.

I would have been much more confident if Monchi hadnít been emotionally blackmailed into to staying at Sevilla for another year though!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:32:54 AM
Yes but you can always get two individuals who don’t get on.

Maybe there’s an issue that BK is still doing the final negotiations.

If Sigurdsson has been done in a week (we’ve probably lost £5m on league positions) surely we’d have had time to get after a back plan for Giroud etc.

Think it would be massively rash to get shut of both and be faced with a double change again.

I would have been much more confident if Monchi hadn’t been emotionally blackmailed into to staying at Sevilla for another year though!

I agree, I think we need to look at how and why we buy players, which ironically is probably what Walsh's appointment was in part to do.

Anyway, onwards and upwards now. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Juanito on November 03, 2017, 03:43:50 AM
We have Southampton reject who is a right back having to play left back, no replacement for ageing Baines.

Williams was 12 million and now his legs have gone after a season.

Klaassen was 25 million and plays like an inhibited Scott Gemmil.

Sigurdsson for 45 million, need I say more.

No striker

Rooney as our highest earner who plays where he wants, gets drunk, breaks the law and walks back into the side because he is Wayne Rooney.


Walshís and Koemanís tenure at Everton is like a 7 year olds first go on Championship Manager.  Say what you like about Moyes but he would do a lot more with the money that these no marks. Yes, we have some good young player signed but Everton did that before him and we have a reputation for giving young kids a chance.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:54:35 AM
We have Southampton reject who is a right back having to play left back, no replacement for ageing Baines.

Williams was 12 million and now his legs have gone after a season.

Klaassen was 25 million and plays like an inhibited Scott Gemmil.

Sigurdsson for 45 million, need I say more.

No striker

Rooney as our highest earner who plays where he wants, gets drunk, breaks the law and walks back into the side because he is Wayne Rooney.


Walsh’s and Koeman’s tenure at Everton is like a 7 year olds first go on Championship Manager.  Say what you like about Moyes but he would do a lot more with the money that these no marks. Yes, we have some good young player signed but Everton did that before him and we have a reputation for giving young kids a chance.



To be fair with money comes the higher likelihood of making a mistake when you're buying more players at a higher level. Although I take your point that even so, the recruitment appears to have been done without much thought to how they will be integrated and into what system.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 03, 2017, 04:09:58 AM
Heís been onto a loser from day one. His authority and position has been undermined from the start with the club employing a manager who some people were clearly in awe of and who they gave carte Blanche to from the very beginning. The relationship between the DoF and manager should be symbiotic but thatís near impossible with an egotist like Koeman when heís been given such free reign.

Thereís a reason Walsh is still around and Koeman isnít, the club know the facts and the dynamics of whatís gone on. Now theyíve thankfully came to their senses itís fresh start and Walsh should now be given the right backing and power to form a mutual respected relationship with the next manager when heís brought in, whoever he is or whatever his background.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:23:38 AM
He's been onto a loser from day one. His authority and position has been undermined from the start with the club employing a manager who some people were clearly in awe of and who they gave carte Blanche to from the very beginning. The relationship between the DoF and manager should be symbiotic but that's near impossible with an egotist like Koeman when he's been given such free reign.

There's a reason Walsh is still around and Koeman isn't, the club know the facts and the dynamics of what's gone on. Now they've thankfully came to their senses it's fresh start and Walsh should now be given the right backing and power to form a mutual respected relationship with the next manager when he's brought in, whoever he is or whatever his background.
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 04:33:48 AM
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.

Reed was there first. He had well-defined power.

Walsh? We barely know what he's been responsible for.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 04:35:36 AM
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.

They had their fair share of fallouts.

Reed wanted him sacked at one point.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:36:00 AM
They had their fair share of fallouts.

Reed wanted him sacked at one point.
True
They still worked tho
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 04:36:12 AM
We have a striker that we spent money on but won't play. This season is maddening. Genuinely starting to think this is the season we go down.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:36:39 AM
Reed was there first. He had well-defined power.

Walsh? We barely know what he's been responsible for.
The thing with Walsh for me is.... Is he a dof or a scout?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:37:02 AM
We have a striker that we spent money on but won't play. This season is maddening. Genuinely starting to think this is the season we go down.
Who?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 04:38:40 AM
The thing with Walsh for me is.... Is he a dof or a scout?

Moshiri and Kenwright don't seem to have it figured it out so what chance do the rest of us have?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on November 03, 2017, 04:45:26 AM
Now he really is a PE teacher
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 04:46:11 AM
Who?

Sandro.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:49:40 AM
Sandro.
Ah ok
He's struggled so far like but yeah
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 05:13:33 AM
Ah ok
He's struggled so far like but yeah

He didn't look great at first, then got the injury and has disappeared off the face of the earth. Seems odd he isn't even on the bench as an option. In fact, no, it doesn't. Nothing fucking surprises me about this club anymore this season. Absolute mess.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 06:22:45 AM
Goalkeeper:
Pickford
Robles
Stek

Right Back:
Coleman
Kenny
Cuco

Left Back:
Baines

Centreback:
Keane
Jags
Williams
RFM
Holgate

DM:
Schneiderlin
Gana
McCarthy
Besic
Beni

CM:
Davies
Klaassen
Sigurdsson

Wing:
Mirallas
Lennon
Vlasic
Lookman
Bolassie

Striker:
Rooney
DCL
Sandro

What do you think?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 01:06:04 PM
Almost all of those players fall into the past it or not ready category. The rest: good but have barely shown it in an Everton shirt or not for ages. In goal is the only positioned day weíre fine; good, young number 1 with experienced back-up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on November 03, 2017, 01:28:00 PM
I think the reality is squad is improved, mainly in terms of potential, but first 11 is much worse. But we also lost our 3 most important and well connected players. Anyone who played in team knew what to expect from them and how to play alongside them.

Lukaku scored all the goals, and was going to require a redesign to replace. We setup to play to his strengths and there isn't a better Lukaku, you have to adapt.

Barkley created the vast majority of our play, in terms of dribbling, connecting play, trying to create chances and drawing attention. We don't have a creative player you can build a team around, like a De Bruyne, but most teams don't. And again this is a case of adapting, but here you can even split roles. As in you can get a great passer and another player who can dribble.

Barry, I'm not sure anyone quite appreciated his quality on the ball, until we didn't have it. His positional and defensive nous often gave us added security, but it's his distribution and quality on the ball that we've probably missed most on regular basis. There aren't many players who look up or play anything different to anyone else.

In terms of direct replacements, Davies has got a few assists and shown signs of the wider distribution. Barry would have chopped Demerai Gray, and he's tried more than others. But with Beni, Gana, Schneiderlin as well, its not a major issue and you don't need great distribution there, its a bonus or option.

In terms of replacing Barkley, we have Vlasic, who has shown signs of being to dribble through several players, retain possession and move us forward. His passing looks more simple than incisive, but he's still a peripheral figure on field.

In terms of replacing Lukaku, we have Sandro. Hasn't had many chances and struggled when he did. DCL has held ball up better, and Niasse has 

The volume of options, meant that no one really got game time or has settled that well.

Look at the wingers and there is creative players who can run with the ball, strikers are decent enough to score goals. In hindisght I think this could still be a very good window, but right now we have nothing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 02:08:39 PM
I think koeman moshiri and kenwright have treated him just like a scout. I don't think he's responsible for the current mess beyond being too weak to do the role he should be
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
What do you think?

I think it wouldn't look so bad if we had the players fit, but we have RFM out for the season, Bolasie and Coleman out for maybe 50% of it. Not only have we not strengthened the main areas we needed to (Striker, LB), but we have failed to adequately replace these injured players too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:45:27 PM
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.

They didn't really. They tolerated each other but luckily Reed is part of the furniture there so he had the final say and Koeman reluctantly accepted it.

Obviously have no evidence but I think Koeman thought he was top dog here and with the owner coming out with phrases like 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants' it's hardly conducive to a healthy environment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 04:24:00 PM
Questions certainly need to be asked as to what Walsh has actually done since he came here
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 04:26:40 PM
They didn't really. They tolerated each other but luckily Reed is part of the furniture there so he had the final say and Koeman reluctantly accepted it.

Obviously have no evidence but I think Koeman thought he was top dog here and with the owner coming out with phrases like 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants' it's hardly conducive to a healthy environment.

Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:39:02 PM
A lot has been made about the lack of genuine quality  striker but the upper management of the club including the directors, plushWalsh and Koeman all made a massive error in not identifying how defensively frail we are.

I know having a better striker and more of a goal threat would make us less likely to concede goals but we have had Steve fucking Watson playing as our main striker in the past and we didn't look this bad defensively.

Our (outfield) defence is a shambles and there is a real lack of leadership despite the relative experience of our senior defenders.

Jags, Williams and Baines all need to be replaced sooner rather than later and aside from Keane, who does not look like he has the experience or leadership skills yet, we made no planning for the short to medium term future here aside from buying Martina as a stop gap.

I don't think this responsibility falls directly on Walsh, I think it should have been the collective responsibility of Walsh and Koeman and the board to plan player recruitment for the short, mid and long term. But we did none of the this in the defensive department. We have bought talented exciting youngsters but we need to identify and recruit defenders who are in or coming into their prime who will take us into the upper echelon of clubs.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:43:07 PM
Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.

In addition to not acquiring a left back we need to question some of the decisions made regarding the squad

Having not signed a left back, why did we not include Luke Garbutt as part of the squad or not send Connolly out on loan?

Why have we not planned for Baines getting injured?

Assuming it was Koeman's decision on the final squad, did anybody question him on contingency plans for players getting injured.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:43:44 PM
In addition to not acquiring a left back we need to question some of the decisions made regarding the squad in response to the lack of left-backs

Having not signed a left back, why did we not include Luke Garbutt as part of the squad or not send Connolly out on loan?

Why have we not planned for Baines getting injured?

Assuming it was Koeman's decision on the final squad, did anybody question him on contingency plans for players getting injured.


Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 03, 2017, 04:43:58 PM
Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.

He also wanted Sigurdsson and Rooney and thereís no way in my opinion he wasnít involved in bringing Klaasen in from his old club from his own country.

The money isnít infinite and the limited finances needed distributing more evenly. But even then the club pandered to his pursuit of the one and only forward he demand acceptable, to the detriment of more prudent squad building, and it came down to a lifestyle choice for Giroud and his wife not a financial matter.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
In addition to not acquiring a left back we need to question some of the decisions made regarding the squad

Having not signed a left back, why did we not include Luke Garbutt as part of the squad or not send Connolly out on loan?

Why have we not planned for Baines getting injured?

Assuming it was Koeman's decision on the final squad, did anybody question him on contingency plans for players getting injured.



These are all DOF questions imo
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on November 03, 2017, 07:04:05 PM
Good article by the Mail with some quotes which should finally put to bed some of the rumours about who does most of the signings at Everton, from my perspective the answer to the title of this thread is YES!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5046209/Steve-Walsh-blame-Everton-shambles.html

Walsh, towards the end of last season, went on record and he made it clear that he would not sign a player he had not seen live in action and how 'you just need a few more pieces, then you have a top four side.'
Prior to that, came another declaration in an interview with The Times last Boxing Day.
Asked about his role, he seized the opportunity to champion his credentials, saying: 'You would have to be daft to think I wasn't brought in for my recruiting talents. I'll spend money as it was my own. I won't waste it.'

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 08:07:31 PM
Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.

Maybe because he had too much say on the list of targets? Short of Walsh kidnapping them what can he do with a list of players we can't get
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 08:18:37 PM
What a fucking mess top to bottom. Personally I just think much of his role in terms of first team recruiting was eaten up by koeman who had no track record for it at Southampton
Should we sack Walsh? Probably not for the work he did but maybe for the work he didn't do in terms of actually taking control. Does leave big questions of them above who let koeman make decisions he shouldn't have been making

We've had a manager with no record of buying players picking the expensive talents and the DOF doing cheap punts and youth players.
The all should be embarrassed from moshiri down. Laughable incompetence from all
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 08:46:09 PM
Jan last chance saloon whatever happened.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 11:27:31 PM
He's clearly got a good eye for a player.

But as director of football he has to take the blame for assembling the most unbalanced squad in the premier league.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 04, 2017, 03:17:27 AM
Because I'm bored, here's my "What If Walsh/Koeman Were Right" starting eleven.

GK: Pickford
RB: Holgate*
CB: Keane
CB: Williams
LB: Baines**
DM: Schneiderlin
CM: Klaassen
CM: Sigurdsson
RAM: Vlasic
CF: Rooney
LAM: Sandro

* Glad the lad is alright after yesterday's scare but Koeman was 100% wrong on Martina. Not including him.
** Amazing that a Moyes player still makes this eleven.

Would be a hell of an experiment to see if you could get that Sigurdsson-Klaassen-Rooney triangle to space itself properly because there are, in theory, lots of interesting movements you could orchestrate with all of the positional flexibility there (stuff like Rooney dropping off or pulling out wide, with Klaassen and/or Sigurdsson running beyond him into the box).

Of course, in reality, we've seen the three of them on the pitch together and they look like they've never met, despite presumably training together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 04, 2017, 12:36:40 PM
Because I'm bored, here's my "What If Walsh/Koeman Were Right" starting eleven.

GK: Pickford
RB: Holgate*
CB: Keane
CB: Williams
LB: Baines**
DM: Schneiderlin
CM: Klaassen
CM: Sigurdsson
RAM: Vlasic
CF: Rooney
LAM: Sandro

* Glad the lad is alright after yesterday's scare but Koeman was 100% wrong on Martina. Not including him.
** Amazing that a Moyes player still makes this eleven.

Would be a hell of an experiment to see if you could get that Sigurdsson-Klaassen-Rooney triangle to space itself properly because there are, in theory, lots of interesting movements you could orchestrate with all of the positional flexibility there (stuff like Rooney dropping off or pulling out wide, with Klaassen and/or Sigurdsson running beyond him into the box).

Of course, in reality, we've seen the three of them on the pitch together and they look like they've never met, despite presumably training together.

Yes but how often and how were they drilled (given that itís taken that Koeman probably expected a certain level of understanding without the need for specific exercises)?

Plus by also having the other 2 in the front 5 as new players there are even more potential mis-reads / misunderstandings etc.

This is where the constant formation changes (not helped by the fixtures admittedly) were such a hinderance.

4/5 of these should be playing their 11th league game tomorrow whereas have we had Rooney, Sigurdsson, Klaassen more than twice? Let alone all 5.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 04, 2017, 06:33:38 PM
Yes but how often and how were they drilled (given that itís taken that Koeman probably expected a certain level of understanding without the need for specific exercises)?

Plus by also having the other 2 in the front 5 as new players there are even more potential mis-reads / misunderstandings etc.

This is where the constant formation changes (not helped by the fixtures admittedly) were such a hinderance.

4/5 of these should be playing their 11th league game tomorrow whereas have we had Rooney, Sigurdsson, Klaassen more than twice? Let alone all 5.

The lack of understanding was definitely a problem but I think the biggest hindrance to getting the new players to function together was Koeman's insistence on long balls out of defense. Most of the new signings do their best work with the ball at their feet and options around them. Asking them to chase after scraps was a pretty serious miscalculation.

We basically built this team around a type of player we never bought. Which is embarrassing for all sorts of reasons. Say we got Giroud and he was, in fact, the perfect player to tie everything together. What if he gets injured? This squad needed a B-level target man too and it's a bit ridiculous that we didn't go for one. Mounie and Haller were not particularly expensive.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 04, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
The lack of understanding was definitely a problem but I think the biggest hindrance to getting the new players to function together was Koeman's insistence on long balls out of defense. Most of the new signings do their best work with the ball at their feet and options around them. Asking them to chase after scraps was a pretty serious miscalculation.

We basically built this team around a type of player we never bought. Which is embarrassing for all sorts of reasons. Say we got Giroud and he was, in fact, the perfect player to tie everything together. What if he gets injured? This squad needed a B-level target man too and it's a bit ridiculous that we didn't go for one. Mounie and Haller were not particularly expensive.

Oh yeah I agree with all that.

I just mean that after that player didnít materialise then we should have been working really hard on making easier passing options for the back 3/4.

While his pragmatism could be a positive, itís clear that he was happy for players to get shut if they werenít confident and / or under pressure.

Think that comes back to his natural assumption that because he could do it, then so should other top flight players etc.

Anyway back on thread...

Iíve watched Haller a couple of times recently (scored last night) and not sure heís someone who looks like that should be made for the PL but still a bit gangly.

But yes, given that we needed a back up anyway, relatively cheap ďgamblesĒ.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on November 05, 2017, 01:53:10 AM
Sigurdsson was a Koeman signing, this is the reason he was chased all summer as Koeman said he would replace a lot of Romís goals.

This has been reported by numerous club sources and media.

I donít know about the other signings except Martina who was also a Koeman signing and Onyekuru who was a Walsh signing.

Again, the above were confirmed by the people themselves or club sources and by media.

Sacking Walsh would seem counter productive.

The only bad signing so far has been Klaassen, the rest have proven decent or not been given enough of a chance such as Sandro. 2 of them (Rooney and Pickford) have proven to be great signings.

The worst signings were last season.
Williams who has done nothing and is on big wages and Schneiderlin who has been a woeful signing and is one of the clubs highest earners 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 05, 2017, 02:33:29 AM
Sigurdsson was a Koeman signing, this is the reason he was chased all summer as Koeman said he would replace a lot of Romís goals.

This has been reported by numerous club sources and media.

I donít know about the other signings except Martina who was also a Koeman signing and Onyekuru who was a Walsh signing.

Again, the above were confirmed by the people themselves or club sources and by media.

Sacking Walsh would seem counter productive.

The only bad signing so far has been Klaassen, the rest have proven decent or not been given enough of a chance such as Sandro. 2 of them (Rooney and Pickford) have proven to be great signings.

The worst signings were last season.
Williams who has done nothing and is on big wages and Schneiderlin who has been a woeful signing and is one of the clubs highest earners 

I'm really not sure Pickford has been great. He flaps a lot. He's been decent in a sea of shit. Rooney absolutely hasn't been great. He's been 1 of the better of the shits in said sea
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 05, 2017, 04:43:03 PM
Recruitment was all a bit arse about face wasn't it. Let's build a side around a player we don't actually have yet and then when said player doesn't materialise we're snookered. I don't care if you did or didn't buy the players as a DoF you have to take responsibility for letting it happen.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 05, 2017, 11:56:01 PM
You know what they all need shooting....koeman, Walsh, kenright, moshri.  Honestly bunch of clueless cunts.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thomas on November 07, 2017, 07:08:03 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 07, 2017, 11:41:46 PM
Walsh....get off my land
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on November 08, 2017, 11:14:44 PM
I see the rabble is well represented.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluenose1962 on November 09, 2017, 07:16:12 PM
Feel I have to add my two pence worth here. For me its not only Walsh who needs looking at but our amateur board is also culpable. We all knew for 12 months that our striker was not going to sign a new contract and was leaving. 12 months to find a new number 9. So Giroud was in the building but who was plan B or plan C. Surely someone at the top must have been asking these questions of both Walsh and Koeman. What happens if we dont get Giroud who is our back up. We pay Steve Walsh a lot of money and I am unconvinced of the value of that pay packet at this time. Walsh apparently wanted another Belgian, whom Koeman did not want, who eventually signed for Dortmund and has scored once in 9. Quoted recently as seeing himself as a number 10 not a 9. Maybe the fetish with the number 10 is Walshs not Koemans.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 09, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
Feel I have to add my two pence worth here. For me its not only Walsh who needs looking at but our amateur board is also culpable. We all knew for 12 months that our striker was not going to sign a new contract and was leaving. 12 months to find a new number 9. So Giroud was in the building but who was plan B or plan C. Surely someone at the top must have been asking these questions of both Walsh and Koeman. What happens if we dont get Giroud who is our back up. We pay Steve Walsh a lot of money and I am unconvinced of the value of that pay packet at this time. Walsh apparently wanted another Belgian, whom Koeman did not want, who eventually signed for Dortmund and has scored once in 9. Quoted recently as seeing himself as a number 10 not a 9. Maybe the fetish with the number 10 is Walshs not Koemans.

Maybe we need a "should we sack the board?" thread
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluenose1962 on November 09, 2017, 11:07:59 PM
Maybe we need a "should we sack the board?" thread
Not exactly what I said, but they are as much to blame as Walsh and Koeman. TO not sign a striker is criminal. TO not ensure that your Director of Football and your Coach is just as criminal
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 10, 2017, 12:31:59 AM
Iím beginning to hate all these threads...because I genuinely want to start looking forward, however, every time we put in another shite performance or get linked with a fucking grim manager or have to choose a starting 11 from an average/disinterested/ageing/out-of-form/unbalanced squad...it all comes back to this.

Which is ultimately the fault of the board.

Who are in charge.

And will make the next load of decisions.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on November 18, 2017, 11:18:03 PM
Coming round to the view that this guyís a bit of a joker. Heís loaded the squad with over priced overpaid tat.

Elementary scouting seems to have been ignored. Even people on here were saying that Sig is a deadball merchant and that Keane was adept at defending the six yard line but maybe not the halfway line.

Proper dinosaur, like every other 60-odd year old english bloke from the fotball establishment
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: everton1952 on November 18, 2017, 11:23:47 PM
But I thought he was welcomed as an architect of Leicester's championship. Has he had a brain transplant, is he "a joker"  or is this all a load of uninformed misplaced shite, like "Sack the whole lot" for example. I don't know, I am just asking. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 18, 2017, 11:27:19 PM
A complete dullard, farce of a man who was appointed on the back of something that will literally never happen again in football.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on November 18, 2017, 11:27:54 PM
It's a lot of decent pieces of the jigsaw, just from lots of different jigsaws.

Sigurdsson is good on set pieces and crosses, but we have no real aerial threat.

Sandro is quick, but we have no one who can play through balls.

Keane is a good defender, just about as slow as any player I can remember.

Walsh has to take fair amount of blame, but for me, the majority of blame still lies with Koeman. Walsh identifies players, but he's working and trying to fit with managers idea and way of playing. It's up to manager to instruct and think about how it fits together, whether it will work. I think he just thought, yeah buy lots of talent and I'll work something out. He was reasonably hands off in regards to recruitment, hence his complaints a couple of months into season.

We just can't do anything about it until the next window.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: everton1952 on November 18, 2017, 11:31:47 PM
A complete dullard, farce of a man who was appointed on the back of something that will literally never happen again in football.


Wow, I guess you don't rate him very highly then?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 18, 2017, 11:39:24 PM
As I said on the other thread we could have quite literally bought no outfield players in the summer for all the good the £120m or so has had on the first team.

There looks to be more of a disconnect at the club than ever, with too many people involved in the decision making process now meaning their doesn't look to be a cohesive strategy when it comes to buying players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 18, 2017, 11:41:02 PM
Wow, I guess you don't rate him very highly then?

Lets just say if I met him, I'd blag that my shoelaces where untied and trip and (hopefully) head butt him without hurting my self in the process.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on November 24, 2017, 04:08:45 AM
Needs sacking and nothing to do with any future signings.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 24, 2017, 04:11:26 AM
Just not contributing anything at all, got to have the easiest job in football ever.

Just fuck the prick off.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 24, 2017, 04:12:08 AM
So much money spent, so much shite
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on November 24, 2017, 04:12:25 AM
Get rid, complete overhaul needed now
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on November 24, 2017, 04:13:19 AM
I wonder what he's been doing since August 31st, has he found a striker, left back and central defender yet I wonder?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 24, 2017, 04:13:36 AM
Didn't I read on here that members of the board (or certainly senior figures within the club) refer to him as "The old woman"?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 24, 2017, 04:15:10 AM
I wonder what he's been doing since August 31st, has he found a striker, left back and central defender yet I wonder?
Yeah keane, sandro and Martina.. .like 3 new signings. Useless coont couldn't find a decent scout in a scout hut.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 24, 2017, 04:15:14 AM
Doesn't he have a place on the board?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on November 24, 2017, 04:15:51 AM
Lets just say if I met him, I'd blag that my shoelaces where untied and trip and (hopefully) head butt him without hurting my self in the process.

Would you put him in the vile shite bracket, Cozzie?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 24, 2017, 04:16:15 AM
Doesn't he have a place on the board?
yeah my chopping board !
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 24, 2017, 04:17:38 AM
Does he go to the games? Think it's only a matter of time that he starts to get a lot of shit if he does
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 24, 2017, 04:18:04 AM
He didn't even have to interview for the job, Moshiri chased him and offered it him on the back of one decent season. Same with Koeman. No interviewing of shortlists, no selection panel, no due diligence for the two most important jobs at the club.

Our new owner knows nothing about football and from what it looks like nothing about how to run an business either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 24, 2017, 04:18:36 AM
Would you put him in the vile shite bracket, Cozzie?

Good lord Sam, he is beyond that, Matthew Pennington has been relieved of his Vile shite tag, stick it on that dour bastard.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 24, 2017, 04:31:39 AM
To be fair to the bloke, he was a scout who then got offered a blank cheque and a nice fancy title off the back of THE flukiest occurrence in modern football.

The blame lies with those who appointed the useless cunt, not the useless cunt himself.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 24, 2017, 04:33:56 AM
To be fair to the bloke, he was a scout who then got offered a blank cheque and a nice fancy title off the back of THE flukiest occurrence in modern football.

The blame lies with those who appointed the useless cunt, not the useless cunt himself.

You mean the useless cunt who owns the majority of our shares?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 24, 2017, 04:49:50 AM
Should be locked away in St Ruperts Tower this man.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 24, 2017, 04:58:53 AM
Still yes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on November 25, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/football-notebook-steve-walsh-role-at-everton-under-threat-ww78p2v09
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 25, 2017, 03:09:09 PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/football-notebook-steve-walsh-role-at-everton-under-threat-ww78p2v09

About time
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on November 25, 2017, 03:23:30 PM
Imagine picking up a mill a year, not signing someone to replace Lukaku and still being in your job months later. Only at Everton.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on November 25, 2017, 03:28:07 PM
Do all clubs have someone in a role like this? Is it necessary?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 25, 2017, 03:51:48 PM
The average chief scout gets paid £100k a year - weíre paying ours £1.2m. Because thatís all he is, a scout that fluked his way into a DoF job.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 25, 2017, 03:55:05 PM
He must be sweating a bit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on November 25, 2017, 03:55:50 PM
DOF doesnt really work. We've seen both Liverpool and Spurs move away from this in recent years.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 25, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
DOF doesnt really work. We've seen both Liverpool and Spurs move away from this in recent years.

Erm...

Liverpool are set to appoint technical expert Michael Edwards as their first ever director of football.
But despite the implications of having a supremo in charge of football matters, it is understood manager Jurgen Klopp not only welcomes the decision but encouraged it.

Tottenham Hotspur are actively on the hunt for a director of football, according to a report from the London Evening Standard.
Spurs are looking for a replacement for Paul Mitchell. The head of recruitment handed in his resignation in August and is still serving his notice period at the club

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 25, 2017, 04:16:00 PM
DOF doesnt really work. We've seen both Liverpool and Spurs move away from this in recent years.

Certainly doesn't work when we won't let him buy the first team players or pick the manager. He might be crap at the job he might be brilliant. Only thing we do know is that koeman and moshiri are crap at the majority of the job because they've been doing it for him
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on November 25, 2017, 04:27:19 PM
Certainly doesn't work when we won't let him buy the first team players or pick the manager. He might be crap at the job he might be brilliant. Only thing we do know is that koeman and moshiri are crap at the majority of the job because they've been doing it for him

The thing is we don't actually KNOW anything about who is doing what. Plenty are surmising and using rumours, anecdotes and their own views to come up with their own theories.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 25, 2017, 04:36:22 PM
The thing is we don't actually KNOW anything about who is doing what. Plenty are surmising and using rumours, anecdotes and their own views to come up with their own theories.

It does seem to be widely accepted he didn't pick a lot of our expensive "proven" signings and now apparently isn't really involved in the picking of the manager.
It seems like the manager and the board have almost pushed him out of the big decisions.

We don't really know though but personally I think we let koeman build this shit show despite his relative success at Southampton coming with someone else buying the players
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 25, 2017, 04:42:35 PM

Can someone copy and paste that article
please.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 25, 2017, 04:43:13 PM
DOF doesnt really work. We've seen both Liverpool and Spurs move away from this in recent years.

There are barely any PL clubs that donít have an equivalent.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Alanvideo on November 25, 2017, 04:46:42 PM
Can someone copy and paste that article
please.
.........
Everton are reviewing the position of Steve Walsh, their director of football, with some at Goodison Park questioning whether he is doing enough to justify a salary in excess of £1 million, one of the highest in the Premier League for such a position. Walsh is understood to have been given little involvement in the clubís search for a new manager after his initial recommendation of Sam Allardyce failed to materialise, with the process being spearheaded by the majority shareholder Farhad Moshiri. Walsh is also facing questions over his decisions in last summerís transfer window, during which he presided over the acquisition of almost £150 million of new players, while Everton are now struggling at the wrong end of the table. Everton recruited Walsh from Leicester City 16 months ago after failing to bring in Monchi, Sevilleís sporting director, and there is a growing feeling at the club that he has not delivered.




Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 25, 2017, 04:56:36 PM
I think the fact that Walsh wanted Sam Allardyce says a lot about his level of ambition tbh
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 25, 2017, 04:59:34 PM
Itíd just emphasis how chaotic, panic stricken and rudderless things are at present if we sacked our DoF just as thereís a transfer window around the corner and weíre in the midst of managerial recruitment crisis.

So it wouldnít surprise me at all if that articles true.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 25, 2017, 05:04:05 PM
Can we afford another transfer window like that?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 25, 2017, 05:05:15 PM
Itíd just emphasis how chaotic, panic stricken and rudderless things are at present if we sacked our DoF just as thereís a transfer window around the corner and weíre in the midst of managerial recruitment crisis.

So it wouldnít surprise me at all if that articles true.

Sooner get rid of the bloke now if it saves us from another transfer window like the ones he has overseen previously

Edit: Beaten to it by Brap by about 30 seconds!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on November 25, 2017, 05:07:37 PM
I wonder, with reports that we are interested in Ralf Rangnick, the sporting director at RB Leipzig, are we maybe exploring the possibility of bringing him in as a director of football, rather than as a manager, to replace Steve Walsh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on November 25, 2017, 05:13:21 PM
Empathetic to the idea that Koeman was knocking back some of Walsh's suggestions.

A first recommendation of Allardyce is probably grounds for sacking alone though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on November 25, 2017, 05:16:19 PM
I wonder, with reports that we are interested in Ralf Rangnick, the sporting director at RB Leipzig, are we maybe exploring the possibility of bringing him in as a director of football, rather than a manager, to replace Steve Walsh?

This was my hope wayback, and I suggested in one of my podcast questions when Koeman was still here, that Rangnick as DOF and Tuchel as Manager would be my ideal for really taking us forward.

Very remote chance of either, though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 25, 2017, 05:17:13 PM
I just think, if Iím Sporting Director the first fucking job on the list is to go right, hereís my ten strikers that will be to do some of the things that Lukaku could do. Iíve used our new data fella to help out it together and yeah, girouds on the list but thereís 9 other fellas so donít get distracted ok?

After that, hereís my list of full backs - Colemanís broke his fucking leg and Baines is aba 50 and theyíve been crucial for about 10 years sonit would be literally retarded to not find someone who can replace some of the energy and passing those lads can, especially with how important fullbacks are these days.

Weíve had a bid for Gareth Barry have we? Sorry nah, unless you want to buy one of these passing DMís.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 25, 2017, 05:20:35 PM
Wanting big Sam tells you all you need the know about this fella.

It was a dreadful appointment from that start.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on November 25, 2017, 05:24:28 PM
This was my hope wayback, and I suggested in one of my podcast questions when Koeman was still here, that Rangnick as DOF and Tuchel as Manager would be my ideal for really taking us forward.

Very remote chance of either, though.

If I remember correctly, Rangnick was interviewed for the Everton manager role back when we were looking to replace Moyes although apparently now Rangnick has no interest in returning to club management but maybe he might be lured by a DoF role at Everton. 

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on November 25, 2017, 05:27:56 PM
It's just an aspect of the game today that managers can't do everything. There was a time when they were also practically the head scout but their schedule got so busy it was a good idea to hire someone to that role.

This model has been used in the continent for a long time, in fact in many countries they have never had a British-style manager who has a dual role. Manager's job is to make the best of the team he is provided. US sports is the same, btw. You have a general manager who deals with team building and all that and a head coach who is in charge of game-related things. The idea is simple: you can change the coach but you still have a guy in charge of the larger picture. You don't scrap everything that happened in the past two or three years just because the new guy has a new idea on how to build the team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on November 25, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
On a slightly positive note, he's probably more than paid for himself by recommending Gana and Onyekuru.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on November 25, 2017, 05:36:04 PM
I just think, if Iím Sporting Director the first fucking job on the list is to go right, hereís my ten strikers that will be to do some of the things that Lukaku could do. Iíve used our new data fella to help out it together and yeah, girouds on the list but thereís 9 other fellas so donít get distracted ok?

I wonder if Everton still have a partnership with Sports Interactive regarding using the full Football Manager database.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 25, 2017, 05:37:01 PM
I think the fact that Walsh wanted Sam Allardyce says a lot about his level of ambition tbh

As opposed to Simeone and an unavailable silva
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 25, 2017, 05:41:57 PM
Sooner get rid of the bloke now if it saves us from another transfer window like the ones he has overseen previously

Edit: Beaten to it by Brap by about 30 seconds!

We donít know who or what Walsh was responsible for though. Seemingly almost everyone loves Vlasic and Sandro and rates them, do you think Koeman knew about them and requested them? Or even that lad weíve parked in Belgium? Same with Lookman as well.

We do know Koeman wanted Rooney and Sigurdsson (and most likely Klaassen given his connections) as he was very vocal about it, previously Schneiderlin and Bolasie, players Walsh or anybody in his position wouldnít have to scout. We also know Koeman wanted more ďproductivityĒ from the team, ie Goalscores and to be less reliant on a forward, hence the recruitment of multiple players who perform the same attacking role, and we know Koeman wanted Giroud and only Giroud (no point in options 2,3 or 4 etc etc).

Walsh could be a goldmine of knowledge given the freedom to operate properly, only time will tell, but heís clearly been handicapped by Koemans influence over Moshiri in the past and the squad imbalance isnt down to him.

The whole Walsh witchhunt is odd given nobody actually knows his role, responsibilities or remit are.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 25, 2017, 05:50:39 PM
Seemingly almost everyone loves Vlasic and Sandro and rates them, do you think Koeman knew about them and requested them? Or even that lad weíve parked in Belgium? Same with Lookman as well.

People have said Vlasic looks alright based on what we've seen.
Sandro has been an absolute joke and nobody 'loves' him.
Scoring goals in Belgium means absolutely fuck all, we'll see what he's actually got when he arrives at Everton.
Lookman has done nothing but look out of his depth so far this season. May well blossom in a year or two, could just as easily bomb.

Stopped reading after that 1st paragraph because there was more than enough bollocks to ge getting on with.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on November 25, 2017, 05:51:42 PM
We donít know who or what Walsh was responsible for though. Seemingly almost everyone loves Vlasic and Sandro and rates them, do you think Koeman knew about them and requested them? Or even that lad weíve parked in Belgium? Same with Lookman as well.

We do know Koeman wanted Rooney and Sigurdsson (and most likely Klaassen given his connections) as he was very vocal about it, previously Schneiderlin and Bolasie, players Walsh or anybody in his position wouldnít have to scout. We also know Koeman wanted more ďproductivityĒ from the team, ie Goalscores and to be less reliant on a forward, hence the recruitment of multiple players who perform the same attacking role, and we know Koeman wanted Giroud and only Giroud (no point in options 2,3 or 4 etc etc).

Walsh could be a goldmine of knowledge given the freedom to operate properly, only time will tell, but heís clearly been handicapped by Koemans influence over Moshiri in the past and the squad imbalance isnt down to him.

The whole Walsh witchhunt is odd given nobody actually knows his role, responsibilities or remit are.
All that could be true, but his first suggestion for the most important job at the club was his old mate Sam Allardyce.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 25, 2017, 05:57:01 PM
All that could be true, but his first suggestion for the most important job at the club was his old mate Sam Allardyce.

Well for a start thatís only a rumour. But if itís true maybe he was asked who he thought could come in now right away and steady the ship until the end of the season, and heíd probably be right wouldnt he.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on November 25, 2017, 06:02:53 PM
Well for a start thatís only a rumour. But if itís true maybe he was asked who he thought could come in now right away and steady the ship until the end of the season, and heíd probably be right wouldnt he.
Well it's not only a rumour is it? Allardyce has said himself that Everton didn't show the commitment he would like. There's fairly substantive reports that Moshiri met with Allardyce which hasn't been refuted in the slightest.

We don't shy away from offering managers over £100k p/w and we're one of the few clubs willing to pay hefty compensation for them. I like Allardyce. I'm one of the bigger fans of him. Having Allardyce as your first port of call though is nothing short of negligent.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 25, 2017, 06:05:36 PM
Well it's not only a rumour is it? Allardyce has said himself that Everton didn't show the commitment he would like. There's fairly substantive reports that Moshiri met with Allardyce which hasn't been refuted in the slightest.

We don't shy away from offering managers over £100k p/w and we're one of the few clubs willing to pay hefty compensation for them. I like Allardyce. I'm one of the bigger fans of him. Having Allardyce as your first port of call though is nothing short of negligent.

Itís only a rumour in that Walsh ďrecommendedĒ him. He may have suggested others as well though, nobody knows.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on November 25, 2017, 06:14:15 PM
We donít know who or what Walsh was responsible for though. Seemingly almost everyone loves Vlasic and Sandro and rates them, do you think Koeman knew about them and requested them? Or even that lad weíve parked in Belgium? Same with Lookman as well.

Walsh could be a goldmine of knowledge given the freedom to operate properly, only time will tell, but heís clearly been handicapped by Koemans influence over Moshiri in the past and the squad imbalance isnt down to him.

The whole Walsh witchhunt is odd given nobody actually knows his role, responsibilities or remit are.

My guess is he was brought in to Everton largely due to his experience as a football scout at Chelsea and Newcastle and having been head of player recruitment at Leicester, he supposedly played a part in not just bringing in Kante, Vardy and Mahrez to Leicester but also the likes of Zola, Drogba and Essien when he was at Chelsea. We had lost Kevin Reeves who was in charge of the scouting setup until Martinez was sacked so we needed that position filled, the board identified Walsh but wanted to give him a director of football title with seemingly more responsibilities towards the running of the footballing of the club, whatever these responsibilities are supposed to be.

I think every signing we made this summer was endorsed by Koeman, he definitely wanted Rooney, Klaassen and Sigurdsson even though they all occupied the same position and supposedly Koeman and Walsh sat down earlier this summer to discuss transfer targets. It is difficult though to find out the full extent of Walsh's player recruitment role this summer, did he just recommend players and Kenwright/Elstone did all the negotiating or did he actually take a more active part in some deals like his trip to Italy was hinting at?

What seems to be the case though is the club is in quite a mess right now and it doesn't look like we have a proper functioning structure for planning or devising a clear coherent long term football development strategy. It wouldn't surprise me if certain decision making roles were overlapping or people nearer the top of the Everton hierarchy are making the decisions which maybe should be left to those with more expertise in footballing matters.

I just hope for the sake of Everton FC we can get the formula right before things get rapidly worse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on November 25, 2017, 06:19:11 PM
I just think, if Iím Sporting Director the first fucking job on the list is to go right, hereís my ten strikers that will be to do some of the things that Lukaku could do. Iíve used our new data fella to help out it together and yeah, girouds on the list but thereís 9 other fellas so donít get distracted ok?

After that, hereís my list of full backs - Colemanís broke his fucking leg and Baines is aba 50 and theyíve been crucial for about 10 years sonit would be literally retarded to not find someone who can replace some of the energy and passing those lads can, especially with how important fullbacks are these days.

Weíve had a bid for Gareth Barry have we? Sorry nah, unless you want to buy one of these passing DMís.

Maybe Walsh did do that, though, but Koeman "he does what he wants" decided if the targets he wanted weren't available then fuck it.

Personally, I think they are both crap.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 25, 2017, 06:21:22 PM
On a slightly positive note, he's probably more than paid for himself by recommending Gana and Onyekuru.

Yes.

Itís too early to write off everyone else as well.

But it could be that heís not cut out for the negotiations maybe or whatever.

There were stories that BK / Elstone still have final input to negotiations; stories that Koeman was identifying half the players him the other etc.

Then add in poor on field performance and itís very hard to reach a definitive opinion.

What was a mistake was jumping from Monchi to someone (not just Walsh personally) who had never done the role.

We should have ensured that, given it was the first time that we were having that role, we appointed someone with experience of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: pjk on November 26, 2017, 03:41:31 AM
Not sure if this has been posted, but questions are being asked regarding Steve Walsh's position. :wag:



https://twitter.com/ToffeeTVEFC/status/934499542006927360
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 26, 2017, 03:44:43 AM
Happy itís bring reviewed, not majorly confident in those doing the reviewing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on November 26, 2017, 10:42:38 AM
Well for a start that's only a rumour. But if it's true maybe he was asked who he thought could come in now right away and steady the ship until the end of the season, and he'd probably be right wouldnt he.

Any fucker could have come up with that answer for a lot less than what Walsh is getting paid
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on November 26, 2017, 01:12:18 PM
A lot of angry people in here believing everything they read on the Internet.

It's been said by koeman that if both him and Walsh don't agree on a player then they don't pursue/buy him. So how in the fuk do we know who Walsh wanted but koeman didn't or vice versa??? Give your fukkin heads a shake and calm the fuk down.

This site is becoming ridiculous with rumours and speculation becoming fact. It's like Donald trump has multiplied.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 26, 2017, 08:09:27 PM
A lot of angry people in here believing everything they read on the Internet.

It's been said by koeman that if both him and Walsh don't agree on a player then they don't pursue/buy him. So how in the fuk do we know who Walsh wanted but koeman didn't or vice versa??? Give your fukkin heads a shake and calm the fuk down.

This site is becoming ridiculous with rumours and speculation becoming fact. It's like Donald trump has multiplied.
My thoughts are that if Walsh could not see the issues which exist in this squad he is not good enough for the job simple as. He and koeman between them have put together the worst transfer window in prem history ....no doubt about that imo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 26, 2017, 08:57:18 PM
I said 5 games into the season that this squad needs a complete overhaul. Not being smug, Iíd obviously like to see us win, just obvious.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 26, 2017, 09:31:04 PM
The thing is we don't actually KNOW anything about who is doing what. Plenty are surmising and using rumours, anecdotes and their own views to come up with their own theories.

I think it's pretty safe to assume everyone, to a man, is having a mare in their own respective roles at the minute. Whatever and whoever they may be.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on November 26, 2017, 09:32:25 PM
You could fire him for the fact that we were put in a position that we're playing Kenny at LB today alone.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 26, 2017, 09:33:51 PM
He may feel undermined himself. He's not been mentioned in the interim manager period and had been passed over for a youth team coach and a club ambassador.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on November 26, 2017, 09:37:09 PM
I think it's pretty safe to assume everyone, to a man, is having a mare in their own respective roles at the minute. Whatever and whoever they may be.

It's as if there's a curse on us
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 26, 2017, 09:38:30 PM
Asked about his role, Walsh seized the opportunity to champion his credentials, saying: 'You would have to be daft to think I wasn't brought in for my recruiting talents. I'll spend money as it was my own. I won't waste it.'

Just let that sink in.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on November 26, 2017, 10:52:24 PM
The man is a fraud. There is no way in 100 million years he would have been appointed if leicester didn't have that fluke season with all their players playing to 100%. His appointment indicates everything wrong with Everton. Just a terribly run football club with no idea what they're doing. Will continue signing/employing the prems flavour of the month whether it be players/managers/dofs. To me I honestly believed Moyes saved everton. If we went down before Moshiri we would never have came back up. Luckily we have the money at least now to come back up if we go down. We need rid of the lot of them. Elstone, kenwright, walsh. Anyone who isn't Moshiri because they bring f-all to the club
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 26, 2017, 10:54:07 PM
We are massively reactive instead of being proactive.

Oh look what Walsh did let's get him.
Oh look what koeman did, let's get him

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 27, 2017, 12:00:01 AM
We are massively reactive instead of being proactive.

Oh look what Walsh did let's get him.
Oh look what koeman did, let's get him



Well it is both their faults, and others, that we're in this mess. It's perfectly acceptable and understandable to hang everyone at that football club out to dry at the minute, as we're a total mess from top to bottom. No-one is coming out of the current situation with any credit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blargins on November 27, 2017, 12:01:39 AM
Reckon he could do a job up front in place of DCL?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 27, 2017, 12:01:50 AM
Well it is both their faults, and others, that we're in this mess. It's perfectly acceptable and understandable to hang everyone at that football club out to dry at the minute, as we're a total mess from top to bottom. No-one is coming out of the current situation with any credit.
Agreed
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 27, 2017, 04:54:09 AM
Our problems all stem down to the recruitment in the summer, particularly the chase of Sigurdsson.

We boxed off a lot of positions that needed to be strengthened early in the summer. Keeper, centre half, attacking midfield, as well as adding Wayne Rooney.

We then sold Lukaku for 70 mil which is when Walsh, Koeman and Moshiri should've took stock and made sure we weren't left short in any areas.

This is where we pandered to Koemans ego and chased a player we didn't need purely to satisfy a man who had no long term vision of the club.

Instead of chasing Sigurdsson we should've made signing a striker, a left back and another centre half the priority.

No one wanted to stand up to Koeman and say this obsession with Sigurdsson was costing the team in other vital areas. Walsh just seemed to let it all happen, whilst Moshiri saw an opportunity to make a 'statement' by throwing 45mil at a player who was really worth just over half that amount.

It left us with no back up left back to a 32 year old who's on a rapid decline, Ashley Williams still being a main starter, and no one to play upfront having to rely on DCL who's clearly out of his depth at this stage in his career.

It's negligence of the highest order and the director of football who overseas player recruitment has to take responsibility and fall on his sword.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 27, 2017, 06:15:12 AM
Yeah he should be sacked.

This transfer window started well and we were all made up, but were all saying, on here - BUT... we still need 'x, y and z'. So if we could see it, then how could the DoF not see it? Piss poor judgement of the squad.

If we're going for the DoF approach, we should have our former players/managers in that role, as should any club.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on November 27, 2017, 06:34:08 AM
I find it a bit odd this notion that Sigurdsson prevented us working on all these other transfers of importance. I mean, on a day to day basis what was involved in getting Sigurdsson in? All the hard work wouldíve been done (youíd hope) by the first approach, after that it was a slow back and forth on price and waiting for Swansea to get a replacement in. Itís not like everyone is sat around a negotiating table 12 hrs a day incrementally upping the bid.

The only possible reason wouldíve been had we had no other funds after the pursuit to buy in anyone else of note. In which case, again that decision was made early in the summer to spend money that way. That would be a troubling situation if so though.

Anyhow, there is no reason signing a striker, left back etc couldnít have happened alongside Sigurdsson.

So then it becomes a matter of did they think they genuinely had enough without getting these players in? That seems to be the case via statements from Koeman. That they didnít want to spend money on 4th or 5th choice or whatever names on their list.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Tony Clifton on November 27, 2017, 06:45:28 AM
"We missed Oumar"  Who would have thought we'd ever hear that?  And miss him we did.  But we shouldn't.

This club is a fucking bad joke right now, and it just feels like us fans - and David Unsworth - are the punchline.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 27, 2017, 02:07:17 PM
Our problems all stem down to the recruitment in the summer, particularly the chase of Sigurdsson.

We boxed off a lot of positions that needed to be strengthened early in the summer. Keeper, centre half, attacking midfield, as well as adding Wayne Rooney.

We then sold Lukaku for 70 mil which is when Walsh, Koeman and Moshiri should've took stock and made sure we weren't left short in any areas.

This is where we pandered to Koemans ego and chased a player we didn't need purely to satisfy a man who had no long term vision of the club.

Instead of chasing Sigurdsson we should've made signing a striker, a left back and another centre half the priority.

No one wanted to stand up to Koeman and say this obsession with Sigurdsson was costing the team in other vital areas. Walsh just seemed to let it all happen, whilst Moshiri saw an opportunity to make a 'statement' by throwing 45mil at a player who was really worth just over half that amount.

It left us with no back up left back to a 32 year old who's on a rapid decline, Ashley Williams still being a main starter, and no one to play upfront having to rely on DCL who's clearly out of his depth at this stage in his career.

It's negligence of the highest order and the director of football who overseas player recruitment has to take responsibility and fall on his sword.



I agree 100% with this post and your POV here Ram.

To add to it, I believe Koeman caused an issue as well, in as much as they had targeted other players in the event of Giroud turning us down, and Koeman nixed all the deals saying he believed they didn't represent value for money. Two playing in Serie A (Zapata and Boubacar maybe?) and one in the Championship (Zohore).
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on November 27, 2017, 02:50:20 PM
Lete get this on the record

Ronald Koeman rubber stamped EVERY 1st team signing including Rooney

FACT - he said so himself

The only 2 things go direct at Walsh are -

He signed the players for the U23 development squad

He didnít sign the striker and left sided defender that Koeman mentioned a few times before the window shut that he wanted
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 27, 2017, 03:46:00 PM
Lete get this on the record

Ronald Koeman rubber stamped EVERY 1st team signing including Rooney

FACT - he said so himself

The only 2 things go direct at Walsh are -

He signed the players for the U23 development squad

He didn't sign the striker and left sided defender that Koeman mentioned a few times before the window shut that he wanted
Fact - the Head of Recruitment is ultimately responsible for all recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 27, 2017, 03:58:46 PM
I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater with Walsh, his main skill is scouting so just let him crack on with that. It's only a guess but I think Vlasic, Sandro and Pickford look like his signings and I actually think they could prove to be very decent buys given time. The rest were shite like but let's not gut the whole system all at once. Let's get a new manager in before any more potential changes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on November 27, 2017, 04:20:42 PM
I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater with Walsh, his main skill is scouting so just let him crack on with that. It's only a guess but I think Vlasic, Sandro and Pickford look like his signings and I actually think they could prove to be very decent buys given time. The rest were shite like but let's not gut the whole system all at once. Let's get a new manager in before any more potential changes.

I dont think there is anything wrong with your statement in general, but he is on a very healthy wage, think I read hes the top earner in the league for comparable jobs, so just saying he should keep his job as hes good at scouting isnt acceptable. He was employed to be the one that oversees all transfer activity and he has clearly failed at his remit. Im not one for sacking left, right and centre but he is the most accountable person at the club for our current predicament, even more so than Koeman in my opinion, so if he isnt sacked he cant go on earning circa 1 million a year and calling himself DoF if he is just a decent scout.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 27, 2017, 04:25:56 PM
I dont think there is anything wrong with your statement in general, but he is on a very healthy wage, think I read hes the top earner in the league for comparable jobs, so just saying he should keep his job as hes good at scouting isnt acceptable. He was employed to be the one that oversees all transfer activity and he has clearly failed at his remit. Im not one for sacking left, right and centre but he is the most accountable person at the club for our current predicament, even more so than Koeman in my opinion, so if he isnt sacked he cant go on earning circa 1 million a year and calling himself DoF if he is just a decent scout.

He can still be called a DoF but with either reduced responsibilities or with a revised authority remit. The role only works when the manager and DoF are on the same page which clearly wasn't happening last season and which is probably why Walsh was rumoured to want big Sam and Shakespeare to work with.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 27, 2017, 04:28:39 PM
I agree 100% with this post and your POV here Ram.

To add to it, I believe Koeman caused an issue as well, in as much as they had targeted other players in the event of Giroud turning us down, and Koeman nixed all the deals saying he believed they didn't represent value for money. Two playing in Serie A (Zapata and Boubacar maybe?) and one in the Championship (Zohore).

No way of knowing this was Koeman.

Only person who was vocal in demanding the board backed up their bullshit with signings, and they didnít.

Itís not on Koeman imo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 27, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
Koeman mentioned not wanting to pay too much for options B, C and D which is honourable, but probably worth paying when mitigating against the cost of relegation.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ronald-koeman-everton-striker-disappointed-13594380
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on November 27, 2017, 04:42:52 PM
Koeman had the final day on all deals including Vlasic , Pickford and Sandro.

Why do some people find this so hard to understand?

Yes the head of recruitment makes the deals happen but he doesnít have the final say, that was Koemans decision.

Iím Koemans defence, he was probably happy to have the likes of Rooney and Keane as back up because he was still convinced he was getting the striker and left sided defender he talked about numerous times up to the end of the transfer window
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on November 29, 2017, 06:30:03 AM
If we're to believe Walsh is backing Allardyce in, and that is the scope of DoF's ambition, and that's his footballing recommendation to Moshiri (who will need some guidance)...I'll say yes he should go, albeit in the summer.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 29, 2017, 06:51:13 AM
Director of ďFootballĒ
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 29, 2017, 02:07:39 PM
Well itís been said heís on his last card, so for me if Moshiri has ended up backing his suggestion of Sam then for me heís played it.

Wonder what the alternative universe looks like where we got Monchi.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 29, 2017, 02:24:05 PM
Well itís been said heís on his last card, so for me if Moshiri has ended up backing his suggestion of Sam then for me heís played it.

Wonder what the alternative universe looks like where we got Monchi.

We got Giroud, Brahimi and Van Dijk, whilst Salah broke his leg, Klopp had a breakdown and flights from Norway to Liverpool were banned for health and safety reasons
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thomas on December 02, 2017, 05:33:41 AM
I cant believe our scouts/DofF never plucked Will Hughes when Watford did. They signed him for 8m and at Goodison he looked great and in a few other games I've seen. Made Davies look ordinary. Mobile, eager and creative and doesn't mind doing the ugly stuff either. Nobody to my knowledge has noticed him either, although maybe @TheRam (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1602) has as we both have this wierd thing for unheralded players then @Brownie20 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=169) makes it respectable.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on December 02, 2017, 05:38:24 AM
I cant believe our scouts/DofF never plucked Will Hughes when Watford did. They signed him for 8m and at Goodison he looked great and in a few other games I've seen. Made Davies look ordinary. Mobile, eager and creative and doesn't mind doing the ugly stuff either. Nobody to my knowledge has noticed him either, although maybe @TheRam (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1602) has as we both have this wierd thing for unheralded players then @Brownie20 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=169) makes it respectable.

What does your last sentence mean?

He was out injured for a long time. He'd been linked with moves to the PL before but none materialised.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thomas on December 02, 2017, 05:40:26 AM
What does your last sentence mean?

He was out injured for a long time. He'd been linked with moves to the PL before but none materialised.

I just think because you post sensibly if I've made some mad suggestions, you've sometimes gave them credibility. Possibly in my head.

I think the fact he has been injured and missed big moves for a while motivated him, a few of the lads sitting around me agreed that at Goodison he was there star. He's not flashy or a world beater but for 8m you cant complain.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on December 02, 2017, 05:45:00 AM
Martinez was looking at Will Hughes but never had the financial backing like Walsh/Koeman to gamble.

Similarly with Pickford.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thomas on December 02, 2017, 05:46:11 AM
Martinez was looking at Will Hughes but never had the financial backing like Walsh/Koeman to gamble.

Similarly with Pickford.

8m quid though pal? Or where Derby playing more hardball then?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on December 02, 2017, 05:55:35 AM
8m quid though pal? Or where Derby playing more hardball then?

Canít remember the figures Thom but he was a target along with Pickford.

Obvious he never had an endless fund like Koeman so other priorityís got in the way.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thomas on December 02, 2017, 05:56:50 AM
Canít remember the figures Thom but he was a target along with Pickford.

Obvious he never had an endless fund like Koeman so other priorityís got in the way.

TOM pal. Or Thomas. Not Thom. Just saying :D

Otherwise, cool :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on December 08, 2017, 03:44:15 AM
Rumour he is at tonightís Marseille game?

If they lose or the team in 3rd win by a few goals they are out of Europa
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 08, 2017, 03:46:48 AM
Rumour he is at tonight's Marseille game?

If they lose or the team in 3rd win by a few goals they are out of Europa
We are buying marseille?
Sound
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cereal Killer on December 08, 2017, 04:22:43 AM
Rumour he is at tonightís Marseille game?

If they lose or the team in 3rd win by a few goals they are out of Europa

Payet, new 10 is still top of his list.... although someone should teach Walsh how to strike through....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on December 08, 2017, 04:25:37 AM
Payet, new 10 is still top of his list.... although someone should teach Walsh how to strike through....

No way Payet is coming back surely. Aside from other issues.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on January 14, 2018, 01:44:00 AM
Can't see Walsh lasting much longer. His recommending Allardyce, is surely the seal on his fate too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 14, 2018, 01:47:21 AM
I'd sack fucking everyone at the min tbh
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: velimski on January 14, 2018, 01:50:25 AM
The only positive that I can think of is that he can't cause any more damage between now and when the transfer window opens again.

Unless we sack Allardyce before then (which we won't), and he gets a say in who the next manager should be.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 14, 2018, 01:50:47 AM
Leaving Walsh's contributions, whatever they are, out of it... it was always a bit weird that we appointed someone for this role after picking a manager. What a missed opportunity this was.

Having a director of football is good. Or it should be.

But having an unclear power structure is bad. Like spending hundreds of millions of pounds on players that aren't good enough for any of the teams you're chasing bad.

I still think the way forward is to hit the reset button, clear everyone out, and do it the right way.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on January 14, 2018, 01:56:12 AM
I'm not seeing any sort of plan. We need better.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: velimski on January 14, 2018, 01:56:55 AM
The only positive that I can think of is that he can't cause any more damage between now and when the transfer window opens again.

Unless we sack Allardyce before then (which we won't), and he gets a say in who the next manager should be.

Actually, what the fuck am I talking about? This transfer window is still open for another 2 weeks!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on January 14, 2018, 02:01:46 AM
Leaving Walsh's contributions, whatever they are, out of it... it was always a bit weird that we appointed someone for this role after picking a manager. What a missed opportunity this was.

Having a director of football is good. Or it should be.

But having an unclear power structure is bad. Like spending hundreds of millions of pounds on players that aren't good enough for any of the teams you're chasing bad.

I still think the way forward is to hit the reset button, clear everyone out, and do it the right way.

Thing is clubs sack sporting directors all the time.

Chances of getting it spot on first go weíre slim.

No reason why sporting director should be easier to get right compared to a manager, Iíd guess.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on January 14, 2018, 02:28:26 AM
Almost half way into the transfer window and we still haven't got a left back. Outrageous that
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Tony Clifton on January 14, 2018, 02:58:37 AM
Sack him?  Should charged with fraud.  Mayor Joe should write a letter about it.

Koeman needs a slap as well, must have been like a twisted version of Laurel & Hardy that pair.  Another fine mess indeed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bogie on January 14, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
well something is not working is it

even if he did not pick a player he has to agree to it that much was given away this week so the hammer and nails are there all we need is him to get in the dam thing

is this why the £45m waste of fucking time took so long ? did he not give his ok ? was RK a cunt and demanded we sign him after bills we will get this man any player he wants crap ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bogie on January 14, 2018, 03:04:48 AM
Almost half way into the transfer window and we still haven't got a left back. Outrageous that

"this squad is so unbalanced it full of left backs and right wingers" was told that 3 windows ago
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on January 14, 2018, 03:13:34 AM
I said it in the the Spurs game thread.

Something is fundamentally wrong with this squad or organization in general. I don't know where it is, but on the pitch it's showing we are being run into the ground, and in my opinion relegation is a serious concern in the near future.

We probably look the worse in the PL to this day. As in slow, one paced, easily scored against, etc. etc. teams like Swansea actually produce shots on target and actually look like the players know what they are trained to do.

Our players are clueless, no spine, and don't look arsed to even try to be creative. Every game the players look like they're playing for the first time together and just trying to survive 90 minutes. It's really hard to watch.

I don't know if it's Walsh, kenwright/moshiri, koeman, or even the players. But it's really gotten fucked up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on January 14, 2018, 03:37:54 AM
I said it in the the Spurs game thread.

Something is fundamentally wrong with this squad or organization in general. I don't know where it is, but on the pitch it's showing we are being run into the ground, and in my opinion relegation is a serious concern in the near future.

We probably look the worse in the PL to this day. As in slow, one paced, easily scored against, etc. etc. teams like Swansea actually produce shots on target and actually look like the players know what they are trained to do.

Our players are clueless, no spine, and don't look arsed to even try to be creative. Every game the players look like they're playing for the first time together and just trying to survive 90 minutes. It's really hard to watch.

I don't know if it's Walsh, kenwright/moshiri, koeman, or even the players. But it's really gotten fucked up.

no they dont, Swansea are utter turd, hence them being bottom, also on target for the least number of shot in Premier League history and also why they are an absolute basket case off the pitch.

Yes things are a poor at the moment, but to say we look the worse in the league when there are 11 teams below us is a bit of madness.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on January 14, 2018, 03:41:17 AM
no they dont, Swansea are utter turd, hence them being bottom, also on target for the least number of shot in Premier League history and also why they are an absolute basket case off the pitch.

Yes things are a poor at the moment, but to say we look the worse in the league when there are 11 teams below us is a bit of madness.

It is madness, isn't it?

But yet when I watch Southampton, or West Ham, or Crystal palace, or pretty much any other team below us, they all are more pleasing on the eye then us. They all look like they've actually got a clue how to play the system they've been trained to play.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on January 14, 2018, 03:47:01 AM
It is madness, isn't it?

But yet when I watch Southampton, or West Ham, or Crystal palace, or pretty much any other team below us, they all are more pleasing on the eye then us. They all look like they've actually got a clue how to play the system they've been trained to play.

But that shows me we have better quality players and can improve, where are they are pleasing on the eye, can as you say play a system yet are still 16th, 12th & 11th and in Swansea's case 20th.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on January 14, 2018, 03:49:22 AM
But that shows me we have better quality players and can improve, where are they are pleasing on the eye, can as you say play a system yet are still 16th, 12th & 11th and in Swansea's case 20th.

We do have more quality... But can't string together more than 3 passes.

Strange, isn't it?

I honestly think something is wrong in the dressing room.
Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: arteta4spain on January 14, 2018, 04:44:49 AM
We do have more quality... But can't string together more than 3 passes.

Strange, isn't it?

I honestly think something is wrong in the dressing room.
There's been 3 managers in the space of 6 months. They will each have ideas of what they want to achieve with the players and also what their management style is. This has created a lot of upheaval with the players as some don't know if they're coming or going and who's going to be selected. I didn't want Big Sam and I still don't but maybe it'd be easier for the players to have him around next season just for some stability.
But then we'd be playing crap football again. We're in a catch 22 right now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on January 14, 2018, 06:53:42 AM
So forget about Walsh and the two Ronnieís/ Sams, what  the fuck is Craig Shakespeare getting paid to do?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: ally2 on January 14, 2018, 06:55:31 AM
So forget about Walsh and the two Ronnie's/ Sams, what  the fuck is Craig Shakespeare getting paid to do?

Haha. Wondered how long it would take for this. But to answer, I don't know. Maybe there are two assistants.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: ally2 on January 14, 2018, 06:56:33 AM
And Dunc too. 'All he does is put out the cones' etc etc
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on January 14, 2018, 07:04:55 AM
And Dunc too. 'All he does is put out the cones' etc etc

Thatís easy heís the bouncer
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on January 14, 2018, 07:09:19 AM
Allardyce wasnít even wearing his headset today so what the point of Shakespeare? ...Ode to Shakespeare


Sitting in the stands great
Getting paid to watch shite served up by your mate Ainít
Long ball we all hate
About time we had an attacking plan mate





 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on January 14, 2018, 07:16:32 AM
Allardyce wasn't even wearing his headset today so what the point of Shakespeare? ...Ode to Shakespeare


Sitting in the stands great
Getting paid to watch shite served up by your mate Ain't
Long ball we all hate
About time we had an attacking plan mate

Ground control to major Tom, Iím sitting in the stands and Iím watching shite in the most peculiar way,
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on January 14, 2018, 07:20:40 AM
Think when we finally do drop out the league, maybe in a few years time, weíll look back on this year as a pivotal point of when we all sort of started to realise how dogshit we really are.

Need 6-7 players I think.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on January 14, 2018, 07:22:07 AM
Cannot bare the thought of dropping out of the top flight
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on January 14, 2018, 08:14:28 AM
Think when we finally do drop out the league, maybe in a few years time, weíll look back on this year as a pivotal point of when we all sort of started to realise how dogshit we really are.

Need 6-7 players I think.

All the signs are in place for it to happen in the near future.

Sad times
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on January 14, 2018, 02:12:46 PM
Surely the idea of Steve Walsh and his role is to identify emerging talent or new talent and bring them into the club as discreetly as possible.

But the evidence is rather different.
We have signed big name and wage players for over inflated fees and wages, do all of our business in the media, and transfers drag on to get over the line.

While itís now been established some of the summer signings such as Klassen and Martina were Koemans choices; Walshís choices not much better and just as over priced.


I fully expected us to be signing random young players from the French, Belgium and German leagues not ageing big wage and fee players like Rooney, Sigurdson and Walcott
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Goaljira on January 14, 2018, 02:57:03 PM
He should have been gone by Jan 3rd when qe didnt have a LB signed and sealed on the 2nd.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 14, 2018, 03:08:39 PM
This clown can fuck off as well
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: ally2 on January 14, 2018, 04:15:28 PM
I thought we'd agreed he's not our head scout.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eugene on January 14, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
I think he will be given till the end of this window just to see who he gets on board. If we then donít see a drastically improved team he will be sacked,to be honest I think he should have gone with Ron
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Redartin on January 14, 2018, 04:33:18 PM
He should have gone after the non replacement of Lukaku debacle.

The whole thing at the top stinks, any wonder Joe Royal got pissed off watching it all unfold.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on January 14, 2018, 05:15:25 PM
This guy has been horrendous....really could not have done a worse job imo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 14, 2018, 05:32:02 PM
I thought we'd agreed he's not our head scout.

Our whole scouting department reports into him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: ally2 on January 14, 2018, 05:33:50 PM
Our whole scouting department reports into him.

OK. So it's the scouts that aren't doing a good job then?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on January 14, 2018, 05:38:36 PM
OK. So it's the scouts that aren't doing a good job then?

And he's in charge of the scouting department.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: ally2 on January 14, 2018, 05:39:53 PM
And he's in charge of the scouting department.

Is he?  Honestly I don't know.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 14, 2018, 05:42:29 PM
Is he?  Honestly I don't know.

Director of Football seems quite self explanatory.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on January 14, 2018, 05:57:13 PM
Like when Koeman was here heís still lacking authority and respect it seems. Tosun is clearly Allardyces pick and it looks like Walcott is as well to me. Not sure how he can be blamed about recruitment when heís being let down by the system in place and the managers can demand their own targets. Itís all very disorganised and should have been clarified after Koeman was sacked and before Allardyce came in but it doesnít look it and until it is heís in a pretty impossible position and so would whoever else replaces him if we continue down this route.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on January 14, 2018, 05:58:30 PM
was watching the match on TSN yesterday.. commentators where saying. that Walsh and Allerdyce need to agree on a player for them to get him, if one doesnt agree,, then the deal fails.

Sam's been saying Cenk is a risk,, etc. but he agreed to sign him, Cenk is Walsh's player, while Walcott is Sams ideal player.. hence saying Walcott is not a risk and is what we need, Walsh needs to agree to Walcott like how Sam did with Cenk.


i like the premise of it,, but Allerdyces football scouting mind scares the fuck outa me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: ally2 on January 14, 2018, 06:07:28 PM
Director of Football seems quite self explanatory.

Not to me it doesn't. Couldn't be any more ambiguous.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 14, 2018, 06:10:26 PM
was watching the match on TSN yesterday.. commentators where saying. that Walsh and Allerdyce need to agree on a player for them to get him, if one doesnt agree,, then the deal fails.

Sam's been saying Cenk is a risk,, etc. but he agreed to sign him, Cenk is Walsh's player, while Walcott is Sams ideal player.. hence saying Walcott is not a risk and is what we need, Walsh needs to agree to Walcott like how Sam did with Cenk.


i like the premise of it,, but Allerdyces football scouting mind scares the fuck outa me.
Allardyce was after tosun at palace
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 14, 2018, 06:16:04 PM
Not to me it doesn't. Couldn't be any more ambiguous.

He doesnít pick the team. He doesnít coach the team. Therefore everything else football-related (clue is in the job title) comes under him. His background is a Chief Scout. Itíd be reasonable to assume then that player scouting and recruitment are within his remit. Otherwise why is he in his post?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eugene on January 14, 2018, 06:19:49 PM
was watching the match on TSN yesterday.. commentators where saying. that Walsh and Allerdyce need to agree on a player for them to get him, if one doesnt agree,, then the deal fails.

Sam's been saying Cenk is a risk,, etc. but he agreed to sign him, Cenk is Walsh's player, while Walcott is Sams ideal player.. hence saying Walcott is not a risk and is what we need, Walsh needs to agree to Walcott like how Sam did with Cenk.


i like the premise of it,, but Allerdyces football scouting mind scares the fuck outa me.
Ffs like the twix factory
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on January 14, 2018, 06:24:44 PM
Allardyce was after tosun at palace

maybe, but from the sounds of his interviews, he didnt trust him or rate him.

Quote
'It might not work' Everton boss Sam Allardyce admits £27million signing Cenk Tosun may be a big-money flop in the Premier League

Toffees boss claims it may take a while for the Turkish forward to settle down to life in England following his Besiktas switch

EVERTON boss Sam Allardyce has admitted £27million signing Cenk Tosun may flop in the Premier League.

The Toffees boss has claimed it may take a while for the Turkey international to settle down to life in England following his Besiktas switch.
On the prospect of an immediate impact from Tosun, Allardyce said: ďItís not easy at all. It might not work, it might not happen.

"The fact is itís a massive problem in terms of youíre hoping rather than being guaranteed he can hit the ground running.

ďWe can only hope he hits they ground running. All his key performance indicators suggest the can.

ďBut that said, when you look at the number of players brought into this country from abroad, even in the summer, and not worked, so itís a risk.

ďBut itís a good deal for the club. A quality player in all key indicators, desperate to come here, desperate to come to the Premier League.

"He left a Champions League team that qualified for the last-16 to play in the Premier League.

ďThat says it all about the commitment of the player and hopefully that commitment will get on to the field as quickly as possible and show us what heís shown everywhere else heís been, particularly at Besiktas and in the Champions League.Ē



Seriuously tho.. what sort of manager will say his striker he is buying (who got the goal of the year in the champs league last year) is going to be a flop before he even plays his first game,. saying he isnt sure in him..

in other interviews he has stated Walcott is better and his number 1 choice,.

The effect that has on the moral of players/new players..

Respect to Tosun tho, he played well yesterday, ran all over the place, good touches.
Just wish we didnt have an anti football manager.. and someone who could utilize him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Django on January 14, 2018, 06:44:38 PM
Allardyce asked Walsh for his list of players for each position.

Tosun wasnít on his list he was an Allardyce pick.

Think itís time for Walsh to be fucked off imo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on January 14, 2018, 06:51:20 PM
Allardyce asked Walsh for his list of players for each position.

Tosun wasnít on his list he was an Allardyce pick.

Think itís time for Walsh to be fucked off imo.

where have you got this from? all the journalists/sports commentators say it was Walsh's pick, and that Walcott is Sams pick.


any interviews or statements to back up it was Allardyces pick?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on January 14, 2018, 06:53:07 PM
Allardyce asked Walsh for his list of players for each position.

Tosun wasnít on his list he was an Allardyce pick.

Think itís time for Walsh to be fucked off imo.

Heard the exact same from my source, Tosun like Walcott is Big Sams choice.

Not sure what the earlier post is on about saying sam was being negative about Tosun?
Can you link a source please?

I would think saying is the best in the world at his price tag is a pretty big confidence statement.

If you mean Sam is being honest and saying one player isnít enough to turn this slow squad around, then you would be correct he wants more players before talking up his team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: cantoffee on January 14, 2018, 07:03:32 PM
I'm sorry but Walsh can't be blameless if he is allowing another manager to pick his own targets.

No matter who wants him first they are all Walsh's signings at this point. He has his man in place as manager and if he can't assert his authority now he never will. Deserves all the blame in the world if he can't get this squad fixed and balanced as he's had enough time and money to spend now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Django on January 14, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
Can guarantee you this info is from within the Club.

Apparently all the scouts hate Walsh as heís an ignorant cunt.

Big power struggle between Kenwright, Elstone and Moshiri, Sash and Baxendale which is affecting the transfers as they need full sign off from the board. Moshiri wanted Sash to sort the Tosun deal which would of seen us get him cheaper and earlier but Walsh insisted he sorted it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 14, 2018, 07:40:51 PM
where have you got this from? all the journalists/sports commentators say it was Walsh's pick, and that Walcott is Sams pick.


any interviews or statements to back up it was Allardyces pick?

Every week he gets the full starting line up spot on, literally every week, so I think it's a safe bet that he's knows what he's on about.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Dr. Sponge on January 14, 2018, 07:45:58 PM
Can guarantee you this info is from within the Club.

Apparently all the scouts hate Walsh as he's an ignorant cunt.

Big power struggle between Kenwright, Elstone and Moshiri, Sash and Baxendale which is affecting the transfers as they need full sign off from the board. Moshiri wanted Sash to sort the Tosun deal which would of seen us get him cheaper and earlier but Walsh insisted he sorted it.

If this is true, it sounds like Walsh's time at the club is numbered. I mean, wtf is he bringing to the table anyway?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on January 14, 2018, 08:05:22 PM
where have you got this from? all the journalists/sports commentators say it was Walsh's pick, and that Walcott is Sams pick.


any interviews or statements to back up it was Allardyces pick?

Can you post a link to where all the journalists and sports commentators stated Tosun was Walsh pick?

I would suspect not
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on January 14, 2018, 08:15:03 PM
Oh yes. No, double that with extra fries.

What's his point? He doesn't have a vision for the club (if he has he's sure hiding it well). He doesn't pick the managers. He doesn't do any team planning. He on one hand allows managers to overspend (or he overspends himself) and on the other hand allegedly blocks some signings. He has failed on every possible metric I can come up with.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KingdingalingNL on January 14, 2018, 08:16:08 PM
Didnít Sam say in an interview that Walsh told him about him and he went to watch him a couple of times and then gave the go ahead?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on January 14, 2018, 08:33:04 PM
Can you post a link to where all the journalists and sports commentators stated Tosun was Walsh pick?

I would suspect not

in the TSN commentary of the game yesterday..  and during their half time talk
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on January 14, 2018, 08:52:37 PM
Exactly

Some random Canadians with no clue making daft comments hardly translates as Ďall journalists/sports commentatorsí


Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 14, 2018, 09:27:37 PM
Get rid of both.

@Django (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4371) please tell me theyíre both on their way.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 14, 2018, 09:35:37 PM
Such a poor, poor appointment at the time and has been proved to be worse than anyone anticipated.

The first thing Moshiri needed to do when he took over is bring in someone of the ilk of David Dein, someone who has been involved in running a big football club, who is used to dealing with big transfers and putting together a strategy on and off the pitch and commanding respect. Not a scout who somehow got given way too much credit than was due for the biggest anomaly football has seen for many a year.

It seems like the club was landed on Moshiri's desk one day as a toy and he started to play with it from that point. There doesn't seem to have been much thought pre-takeover gone into what kind of club he wanted to run and how, what is it's identity, how will it be structured, what are the short/medium term objectives. The appointments seem to have been made on a whim with no due diligence or thorough shortlisting and we're spending obscene amounts of money with no obvious plan.

After Koeman went it was the perfect opportunity to draw a line and start again, albeit mid season the timing wasn't great, but it was still possible as we should have had a contingency plan in place once things started poor and went downhill from there. Now we look indistinguishable on the whole football side from any 2nd tier north west club in the early 2000's.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on January 14, 2018, 09:55:22 PM
Exactly

Some random Canadians with no clue making daft comments hardly translates as Ďall journalists/sports commentatorsí


lol, some random canadians? nah it was Greame le saux / John Roder

the only half time person i knew was Graeme Sharpe.


why speak of shit you dont know, just to make yourself seem correct in your mind.. lol

Didnít Sam say in an interview that Walsh told him about him and he went to watch him a couple of times and then gave the go ahead?

i guess you missed that interview too, more daft canadians spreading rumors!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on January 14, 2018, 10:07:57 PM
Sounds like heís done exactly fuck all since joining but muddy the waters.

I SUSPECT that he is being held back by the power struggle. But If I was brought into a club and just used to buy players the manager wanted Iíd say sound, sash can sort it then Iíll be on the golf course giz a shout when you want a suggestion.

The power struggle stuff is a nightmare. Is it better the devil you know? Or is it time to hand the reigns over to this fucking boaty mcboatface who keeps saying stupid shite?

Clubs fucked mate, guarantee it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bacon sarnie on January 14, 2018, 11:58:27 PM
Exactly

Some random Canadians with no clue making daft comments hardly translates as Ďall journalists/sports commentatorsí




Wrong. Random daft Englishmen. So take a fuckin hike like.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on January 15, 2018, 01:52:55 AM
Wrong. Random daft Englishmen. So take a fuckin hike like.

Since when was I English?
 lolol
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 15, 2018, 01:56:35 AM
Since when was I English?
 lolol
Noone is calling you English bellend
Read what people say before chatting utter wham
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on January 15, 2018, 02:08:52 AM
Someone at the AGM asked if Garbutt was going to be added to the squad. That was a start - they shouldíve asked why we havenít signed a first-team ready LB and if not who is responsible when even Koeman asked for one in his press conferences.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bacon sarnie on January 15, 2018, 03:36:20 AM
Since when was I English?
 lolol

Like Jimmywack said only without the bellend as they're called helmets in Canada.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on January 15, 2018, 04:40:00 AM
What the fucks George Michael and Sam Allardyce got in common?

All Iíve got so far is Older and Young boys.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dangermouse on January 15, 2018, 03:35:33 PM
Had a scan through the last few pages and dint notice this.....

Some actual words from Steve Walsh on what his job is and who makes the final decision.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-director-football-steve-walsh-14136335
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 15, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
Had a scan through the last few pages and dint notice this.....

Some actual words from Steve Walsh on what his job is and who makes the final decision.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-director-football-steve-walsh-14136335

I can't believe the idiot is using the same argument that many idiots on here used in the summer when Lukaku left.

ďIíve got a stat that might surprise a lot of people: if you took away all of Romelu Lukakuís goals from last season, we still wouldíve finished seventh in the league,Ē he said.

This is the guy tasked with understanding football and driving forward a strategy at the club and he's coming out with rubbish like this.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluenose 91 on January 15, 2018, 06:19:23 PM
I can't believe the idiot is using the same argument that many idiots on here used in the summer when Lukaku left.

“I’ve got a stat that might surprise a lot of people: if you took away all of Romelu Lukaku’s goals from last season, we still would’ve finished seventh in the league,” he said.

This is the guy tasked with understanding football and driving forward a strategy at the club and he's coming out with rubbish like this.


I try to stay away from slagging backroom/board level staff off cos very few people actually know what's going on there but that quote from him is a fucking piss take.

Trotting out the sort of shite you see idiots on Twitter come out with.

Didn't he also say something along the lines of ''At least I didn't sign Vincent Janssen''

Moshiri needs a big re-think in the summer of what he actually wants us to do on the pitch.  A big fuck off clear out at that level is needed I think.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on January 15, 2018, 06:38:53 PM
I try to stay away from slagging backroom/board level staff off cos very few people actually know what's going on there but that quote from him is a fucking piss take.

Trotting out the sort of shite you see idiots on Twitter come out with.

Didn't he also say something along the lines of ''At least I didn't sign Vincent Janssen''

Moshiri needs a big re-think in the summer of what he actually wants us to do on the pitch.  A big fuck off clear out at that level is needed I think.

Without hearing the full speech Iím trying to give him the benefit of the doubt in that a) he surely meant that we needed a forward for more than just goals and b) that itís not always easy to sign ďanybodyĒ.

Otherwise itís massively worrying!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on January 15, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
Still waiting on a left-back... a mere 9 months on from the failed attempt to sign Kolasinac.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on January 15, 2018, 06:43:05 PM
Still waiting on a left-back... a mere 9 months on from the failed attempt to sign Kolasinac.
And none being linked either ...doesnt exactly fill you with confidence.

Ah the sound of one hand clapping .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 15, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
And none being linked either ...doesnt exactly fill you with confidence.

Ah the sound of one hand clapping .
We can only work on one deal at a time remember.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on January 15, 2018, 06:46:49 PM
You never know whats going in behind the scenes but it is worrying that we have heard anythinf linking us with a leftback.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 15, 2018, 06:46:49 PM
Still waiting on a left-back... a mere 9 months on from the failed attempt to sign Kolasinac.

Lately, everytime I see you're posts I'm never quite sure if I've accidentally clicked on the football manager thread or it's real life.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on January 15, 2018, 06:50:39 PM
Lately, everytime I see you're posts I'm never quite sure if I've accidentally clicked on the football manager thread or it's real life.

If only it was Football Manager. If only.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on January 15, 2018, 06:54:44 PM
If only it was Football Manager. If only.
We would have three waiting in the wings ...all unhappy in moral dying for minutes on the pitch.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on January 15, 2018, 07:08:32 PM
We would have three waiting in the wings ...all unhappy in moral dying for minutes on the pitch.

Preferable to staring into the abyss that is an actual Everton transfer window.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jamokachi on January 16, 2018, 05:51:46 AM
We have a very good source on here who's told us we're targeting a couple of left backs. Just because we're not linked in the press doesn't mean work isn't going on behind the scenes. I agree that Walsh needs to come up with the goods, and improve massively... but there's a hell of a lot of 2+2=5 going on from some of you in here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on January 16, 2018, 05:54:08 AM
Luike shaws one of them on loan possibly
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on January 16, 2018, 05:55:30 AM
We have a very good source on here who's told us we're targeting a couple of left backs. Just because we're not linked in the press doesn't mean work isn't going on behind the scenes. I agree that Walsh needs to come up with the goods, and improve massively... but there's a hell of a lot of 2+2=5 going on from some of you in here.
Not really 2+2=5 just we know Everton and transfer window fuck ups are as common as Slags with chlamydia.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on January 16, 2018, 02:40:58 PM
Luike shaws one of them on loan possibly

I can't see that now; isn't he a starter for Utd?

If we want a statement signing, and have the money for it, why not chuck £25m at Celtic for Tierney.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on January 16, 2018, 02:47:30 PM
I can't see that now; isn't he a starter for Utd?

If we want a statement signing, and have the money for it, why not chuck £25m at Celtic for Tierney.

I dont think he would come just yet he wants to achieve things with celtic first
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 16, 2018, 03:01:12 PM
I always thought it was just a lazy dig when people said Shaw looks unfit, but he actually does. I don't think he is unfit, but he's just got a weird body shape that makes him look overweight and his face always looks like he's absolutely fucked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on January 16, 2018, 03:02:17 PM
I always thought it was just a lazy dig when people said Shaw looks unfit, but he actually does. I don't think he is unfit, but he's just got a weird body shape that makes him look overweight and his face always looks like he's absolutely fucked.

He was running alongside Shaquiri last night and it was like watching me trying to catch my 2 year old...
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 16, 2018, 03:10:00 PM
I dont think he would come just yet he wants to achieve things with celtic first

Theyíve just gone 675 games unbeaten, what more is there to achieve up there?
Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Django on January 21, 2018, 06:18:26 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 21, 2018, 06:32:19 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.

I donít think just hitting the Like button does this post justice. I want to press it repeatedly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Juanito on January 21, 2018, 06:35:15 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.


Excellent news, thank you.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on January 21, 2018, 06:37:00 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.

Deep state Evertonian :whistle:

It's quite unbelievable he's still in a job. I suspect he's been using the Leicester title card for all it's worth. Remember we were nearly relegated, then won the league next season. If he didn't have that, I think he'd have gone before Koeman.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Goaljira on January 21, 2018, 06:45:01 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.

Who's actually making decisions @Django (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4371) ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Django on January 21, 2018, 06:53:06 PM
Who's actually making decisions @Django (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4371) ?

How long is a piece of string. Thereís definitely a big power struggle on the board at the moment. Something definitely needs to change. Whether thatís Mosh buying out Kenwright or Usmanov coming in. It canít carry on like this
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on January 21, 2018, 06:57:26 PM
How long is a piece of string. Thereís definitely a big power struggle on the board at the moment. Something definitely needs to change. Whether thatís Mosh buying out Kenwright or Usmanov coming in. It canít carry on like this

Financially there's only one winner. If Kenwright wants to stop that he must have serious misgivings about Moshiri.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jamokachi on January 21, 2018, 06:57:43 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.

Hopefully he takes Sam with him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on January 21, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what Iíve heard.

Kenwright wants him out.

Anything in the David Dein taking over from Elstone rumours?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Django on January 21, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
Anything in the David Dein taking over from Elstone rumours?


Havenít heard anything regarding that tbh

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 21, 2018, 07:08:04 PM
I'd be happy with Walsh going but deeply nervous about this board searching for a replacement.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on January 21, 2018, 07:12:15 PM
I'd be happy with Walsh going but deeply nervous about this board searching for a replacement.
Realistically could anyone do a worse job given the 200m wasted ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on January 21, 2018, 07:34:28 PM
I'd be happy with Walsh going but deeply nervous about this board searching for a replacement.

To be fair, I think the club made a big error in recruiting Walsh, since then, all recruitment has had Walsh involvement. But it was the original sin that has lead to the others.

Our recruitment was always very good up until Moshiri and Walsh arrival. Moshiri appointed Allardyce, but I'm not sure he would have done so without Walsh's recommendation. Once he stops getting bad advice from Walsh, it's hard to see how he or club could do any worse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on January 21, 2018, 07:49:58 PM
Anything in the David Dein taking over from Elstone rumours?


How long has Devin been out of the game?

Although heís BKs mate, I think he left Arsenal before Moshiri had his stake.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on January 21, 2018, 07:51:09 PM
I'd be happy with Walsh going but deeply nervous about this board searching for a replacement.

We wanted Monchi first remember.

*crosses fingers that we go back for similar profile*
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on January 21, 2018, 08:01:20 PM
Since Big Sam arrived our recruitment has looked more considered. I doubt Sam would have players foisted upon him.
Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 21, 2018, 08:07:47 PM
I'm not buying that.

I still think the confusing power structure is our biggest issue. Walsh negotiates some deals, Kenwright negotiates others. Walsh and the manager have to agree on players, but the manager gets his way when they disagree, but Walsh still thinks it's a marriage. We have too many people looking at too many things, which is a major problem. It's then compounded by the fact that Walsh appears to be failing at the basic duties of his job (identifying suitable targets for every position on the pitch).

I think it's optimistic to expect a new director of football to sort it out because he "can't be worseĒ than Walsh. If you drop someone who's actually good at the job into this mess, we're still going to struggle our fair share. There is no clear division of responsibilities behind the scenes and I think that's the main reason why we spend so much time spinning our wheels on things that should be a lot more straightforward.

It's on the board to set targets for what they expect on the pitch, hire a director of football to make it happen, and stick to writing the checks. Our next director of football should have the power to oversee all footballing decisions, especially recruitment and managerial hires. And our next manager should be comfortable having someone else buy/sell players for him (based on criteria he gives, of course). Clear division of responsibilities, so everyone can focus on doing one job well and so there's accountability when things go wrong.

My biggest concern is that Moshiri is a bit of a loon and incapable of settling things down behind the scenes. It's early days and there's time to change but it's hard not to worry based on how wasteful, ineffective, and outright embarrassing we've been under him so far.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on January 21, 2018, 08:31:50 PM
First thing the club needs to do is define what exactly the director of football's mandate is. I don't suppose the board had a look at the different models that have been implemented by other clubs in the Premier League or abroad?

I'd like to know as well what the different individuals in the board do and whether they are stepping on a few toes. Not long ago we had only Kenwright, Jon Woods and the absent Robert Earl but now Earl has been replaced by Moshiri's man Alexander Ryazantsev and we've created 3 new spaces for the CEO and deputy - Elstone and Barrett-Baxendale - plus this Keith Harris fellow who was supposed to have found investment for us about 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on January 21, 2018, 09:01:38 PM
I'm not buying that.

I still think the confusing power structure is our biggest issue. Walsh negotiates some deals, Kenwright negotiates others. Walsh and the manager have to agree on players, but the manager gets his way when they disagree, but Walsh still thinks it's a marriage. We have too many people looking at too many things, which is a major problem. It's then compounded by the fact that Walsh appears to be failing at the basic duties of his job (identifying suitable targets for every position on the pitch).

I think it's optimistic to expect a new director of football to sort it out because he "can't be worseĒ than Walsh. If you drop someone who's actually good at the job into this mess, we're still going to struggle our fair share. There is no clear division of responsibilities behind the scenes and I think that's the main reason why we spend so much time spinning our wheels on things that should be a lot more straightforward.

It's on the board to set targets for what they expect on the pitch, hire a director of football to make it happen, and stick to writing the checks. Our next director of football should have the power to oversee all footballing decisions, especially recruitment and managerial hires. And our next manager should be comfortable having someone else buy/sell players for him (based on criteria he gives, of course). Clear division of responsibilities, so everyone can focus on doing one job well and so there's accountability when things go wrong.

My biggest concern is that Moshiri is a bit of a loon and incapable of settling things down behind the scenes. It's early days and there's time to change but it's hard not to worry based on how wasteful, ineffective, and outright embarrassing we've been under him so far.

That's basically the current setup, Walsh has that authority and it's been worse than most managers without a DoF. 2 heads are better than 1, until they work against each other or both are poor at respective jobs. There are not that many clubs who use DoF in PL, you need the full squad because of the quality of league and volume of fixtures. DoF typically want to go a bit lighter to not waste resources, but Walsh only did that in positions we needed players, everywhere else we chucked money down the drain.

When you give that sort of authority to a DoF, it becomes their direction for the squad, he decides the strengths and weaknesses of the team and somewhat the style of play, because of the power in recruitment. We went for him because of Leicester recruitment, but given the fallout the season after title, think it's fair to say he didn't want Ranieri and Pearson looks more like a Walsh recruitment choice. Maybe it would work better if Walsh didn't have so much authority, or was tasked with uncovering undervalue talent, but he might as well be a head scout at that point.

I think it would be better if we got a very good DoF, but we take a similar risk that we have with Walsh. Why not just have a scouting network that operates in managers interests? DoF only provides continuity and security, if he recruits well. When he's wasting resources, procuring average talent for premium prices, it's only going to end badly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 21, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Before I say what I'm going to say, this is not directed at you but is more of a criticism of what is prevailing point-of-view around the league, especially in the media.

There are not that many clubs who use DoF in PL, you need the full squad because of the quality of league and volume of fixtures.

The PL has disappeared so far up it's own asshole with the notion that it's special and that things that work abroad won't work here and that players who are "proven" in the league have special value.

With few exceptions, all of whom are members in what has become a clear "top 6", PL teams are fucking lazy. They make the same lazy managerial appointments, spend all their money on the same lazy player types, and justify it all by saying that other things just won't work in the PL. In reality, they're just afraid to try some different, which I find amusing because they have no shame about wasting their TV money -- which makes them richer than pretty much every club in the world -- on players and managers that plainly aren't worth it. I'd rather us fail trying to be more efficient than fail doing the same old crap.

There's a real chance for us to get ahead of the rest of the league (outside the top 6) by doing some different and doing it effectively. But instead, we're tending towards the same old lazy bullshit. It's a ceiling we impose on ourselves.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 21, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Whispers that Tosun is a bit awful too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on January 21, 2018, 09:43:02 PM
Whispers that Tosun is a bit awful too.

He hasn't looked awful to me.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 21, 2018, 09:44:36 PM
He hasn't looked awful to me.



Me neither tbh.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thornton_19 on January 21, 2018, 09:44:38 PM
Looks like we might be in the market for a new DoF after what I've heard.

Kenwright wants him out.
I could kiss you after that news mate.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on January 21, 2018, 09:44:48 PM
He hasn't looked awful to me.



Just looks isolated.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on January 21, 2018, 09:45:18 PM
Me neither tbh.

Was it from the same dude who gave duff team news?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on January 21, 2018, 09:55:09 PM
Before I say what I'm going to say, this is not directed at you in particular but is more of a criticism of what is prevailing point-of-view around the league, especially in the media.

The PL has disappeared so far up it's own asshole with the notion that it's special and that things that work abroad won't work here and that players who are "proven" in the league have special value.

With few exceptions, all of whom are members in what has become a clear "top 6", PL teams are fucking lazy. They make the same lazy managerial appointments, spend all their money on the same lazy player types, and justify it all by saying that other things just won't work in the PL. In reality, they're just afraid to try some different, which I find amusing because they have no shame about wasting their TV money -- which makes them richer than pretty much every club in the world -- on players and managers that plainly aren't worth it. I'd rather us fail trying to be more efficient than fail doing the same old crap.

There's a real chance for us to get ahead of the rest of the league (outside the top 6) by doing some different and doing it effectively. But instead, we're tending towards the same old lazy bullshit. It's a ceiling we impose on ourselves.

I know what you're saying, but I think it does differ from other leagues, because of the strength of teams at the lower end of the table. Most of the big european leagues are more top heavy and while it's more common on continent, you can get away with carrying more potential than ability, you can play more younger players and rotate more.

I'd say the more stupid thing is the old English mentality of kick it out when in any doubt, or not giving youth support and time to develop. As a fanbase we were scared shitless of Unsworth coming through as a youth manager, yet that happens at top end of La Liga and across Bundesliga over last decade and a bit, where most of the success has been.

DoF is more a trendy thing to curb the worst excesses of managers and focus on development, but a great manager would be better without one. There are virtually no big clubs in Europe, where the DoF has more authority than manager and very few that appoint managers with any success. And very few of the best coaches would work in those roles, as you'll take the fall like Koeman did.

There are plenty of teams on the continent who have a DoF who doesn't have control of managers, they just do recruitment like a head scout but with more authority on recruitment. At that point I really don't care what title they have, call them the supreme footballing sensei if you fancy.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 21, 2018, 09:56:02 PM
Was it from the same dude who gave duff team news?

Haha I've never posted team news, think that was Distin (or some name like that)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on January 21, 2018, 10:09:19 PM
Haha I've never posted team news, think that was Distin (or some name like that)

Ah, sorry, bro
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on January 21, 2018, 10:10:27 PM
I don't think DoF is trendy, I think English football is just catching up to modernity.  It's impossible for a manager to be on top of all the players involved in modern world football, and actually do his job as manager.  WAY too much work and responsibility for one person to even do adequately, let alone well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on January 21, 2018, 10:11:52 PM
I don't think DoF is trendy, I think English football is just catching up to modernity.  It's impossible for a manager to be on top of all the players involved in modern world football, and actually do his job as manager.  WAY too much work and responsibility for one person to even do adequately, let alone well.

That's why you have a scouting team to do that for you, as opposed to doing it to you.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Goaljira on January 21, 2018, 10:34:51 PM
You should just look at the NFLs front office and coaching systems.

You have a GM who reports to the owner, who's job it is to organise the Head Coach and Head of Recruitment.  The 3 work as a team to outline the philsophy and style that is being aimed for.  The HC tries to do this with the current playing staff, whilst highlighting where improvements/replacements are needed.  The HoR takes this information and finds potential players to fit these roles.  Once identified, approval its over to the GM to get shit done.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 21, 2018, 11:25:58 PM
How long has Devin been out of the game?

Although he’s BKs mate, I think he left Arsenal before Moshiri had his stake.
He sold his stake to Usmanov and Moshiri and then became chairman of their company for a short while. His past at Arsenal, coupled with his time at the FA, indicates he knows his way around the upper echelons of football even if he was to be a part-time advisor to the club.

He was also quite publicly called out by Allardyce if I remember rightly when big Sam was querying why his managerial genius wasn't warranting him a look in for the England job when Dein was at the FA. So this little cloud might have a silver lining....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on January 21, 2018, 11:36:44 PM
Go ed Django lad.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on January 22, 2018, 01:36:42 AM
You should just look at the NFLs front office and coaching systems.

You have a GM who reports to the owner, who's job it is to organise the Head Coach and Head of Recruitment.  The 3 work as a team to outline the philsophy and style that is being aimed for.  The HC tries to do this with the current playing staff, whilst highlighting where improvements/replacements are needed.  The HoR takes this information and finds potential players to fit these roles.  Once identified, approval its over to the GM to get shit done.


And when one guy tries to be coach and GM...it doesn't work.  The coach and GM do need to be on the same page, however.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on January 22, 2018, 02:04:04 AM
If we play like the Yankees in here, we'll lose to the Yankees out there.

A quote from the film moneyball that perfectly sums up how I feel about how our transfer strategy should go.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 22, 2018, 02:20:28 AM
If we play like the Yankees in here, we'll lose to the Yankees out there.

A quote from the film moneyball that perfectly sums up how I feel about how our transfer strategy should go.

Whilst I agree I hate the term Moneyball. Years ago it was just known as sensible recruitment, now the yanks think theyíve let the world in on some great secret.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jamokachi on January 22, 2018, 07:38:18 AM
I'd be happy with Walsh going but deeply nervous about this board searching for a replacement.

The thing is, Walsh was regarded a big coup based on his success at Leicester. We wanted Monchi before settling on Walsh, so I'm not sure the fear is really reasonable to be honest. I think Walsh has been found out, and I think he has been a massive let down and that the higher ups have realised this. I also think the dearth of seemingly available quality managers meant we were left with trusting Walsh's backing of Allardyce et all. And lastly, I think that will be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on January 22, 2018, 07:39:52 AM
We've spent £239m in the last 12 months, and got worse. That's really quite spectacular mismanagement.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jamokachi on January 22, 2018, 07:41:13 AM
We've spent £239m in the last 12 months, and got worse. That's really quite spectacular mismanagement.

I think a lot of the 'getting worse' is down to management. We had "gotten better" last season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on January 23, 2018, 05:23:25 AM
Wonder if Ralph Kreuger could be tempted from Southampton? Is he an owner of any kind?

They have les Reed but vice-chairman of football sounds a bit blag? He may well have a younger executive under him or something but heís 65 so I thought it may not be a functional position?

Anyway whoever is responsible for the by and large good quality recruitment strategy on quite tight purse strings backed by a great academy as I understand it - worth looking at? Summer might be a good time depending on how he feels at Southampton...hitting brick walls maybe.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on January 23, 2018, 06:40:45 AM
Surely if we want anyone from southampton it gotta be there scouts....theyve provide football teams of players not 1 or 2
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 23, 2018, 07:12:14 AM
Paul Mitchell was Head of Recruitment at Southampton from January 2012 (the window before they were promoted to the Premier League) to November 2014 (the year Koeman took over). Plenty of hits in that time (Mane, Tadic, Bertrand, Alderweireld, Forster, Wanyama, Lovren, Rodriguez, Clyne, Davis) but also some major misses (Gaston, Mayuka, Forren, Osvaldo, Gardos, Taider). Gaston, Gardos, Taider, and even Mayuka were probably worth the risk but Forren and Osvaldo (who might have been Pochettino's request) were disasters.

Moved from Southampton to Spurs to perform the same role but left last March. Made some decent moves (Alli, Son, Alderweireld again, Trippier, Wanyama again) but a fair number of poor ones (Janssen, Sissoko, N'Koudou, Wimmer, N'Jie), although, again, I'd argue that a few of those that didn't work out were worth the risk (Janssen, N'Jie, Wimmer) and Sissoko was reportedly Levy's decision, so he's absolved of that.

He's unattached, anyhow. If Premier League experience is so important to us, he might be someone worth considering. Walsh might be a good scout but he is not suited for the job he's doing now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: boothill on January 23, 2018, 08:34:57 AM
To be fair, I think the club made a big error in recruiting Walsh, since then, all recruitment has had Walsh involvement. But it was the original sin that has lead to the others.

Our recruitment was always very good up until Moshiri and Walsh arrival. Moshiri appointed Allardyce, but I'm not sure he would have done so without Walsh's recommendation. Once he stops getting bad advice from Walsh, it's hard to see how he or club could do any worse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on January 23, 2018, 01:54:41 PM
Wha does Walsh actually do?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: School of Science on January 23, 2018, 02:04:17 PM
Wha does Walsh actually do?

Scouts players who can not pass a football, who are largely slow, not very mobile and if possible do not shoot. How the fuck did Leicester win the league ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on January 23, 2018, 04:17:00 PM
I would imagine in the bigger scheme of things binning him off wouldn't even cause a ripple in the finances so I'd sack him this afternoon. We managed without a DoF up to now and by and large ran a pretty decent ship. Since he took over we've lurched from one poor decision to another. Bin him off, tell Kenwright to resume transfer negotiations for a week and then we appoint a new DoF in the summer.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lazarou on January 23, 2018, 04:28:14 PM
I would imagine in the bigger scheme of things binning him off wouldn't even cause a ripple in the finances so I'd sack him this afternoon. We managed without a DoF up to now and by and large ran a pretty decent ship. Since he took over we've lurched from one poor decision to another. Bin him off, tell Kenwright to resume transfer negotiations for a week and then we appoint a new DoF in the summer.

Spot on, a DOF has probably been out biggest structural change for a long time and it coincides with a poor, disjointed team that has none of the qualities associated with Everton over the last decade or so but has cost more in transfer fees and wages.

Indefensible appointment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Dr. Sponge on January 23, 2018, 07:12:46 PM
Wha does Walsh actually do?

Scouts players from MOTD highlights.

We've been a shambles since he came in. Since we signed Bolasie for £30mil I haven't felt comfortable with our recruitment. Lazy buys.

One good run of games under Koeman that saved our season, aside from that we've been shite all round.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on January 23, 2018, 07:17:36 PM
for me the manager stands and falls by his team selections...

so he should choose and buy the players he wants...

why do we/any club need a DOF ? hardly any of them have worked out/been a success......

put the manager in charge and let him stand or fall by his own decisions....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on January 23, 2018, 07:19:56 PM
I fancy a @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) dossier on who we should replace Walsh with
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on January 23, 2018, 07:23:55 PM
I fancy a @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) dossier on who we should replace Walsh with

1. The new manager
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on January 23, 2018, 07:25:12 PM
Scouts players from MOTD highlights.

We've been a shambles since he came in. Since we signed Bolasie for £30mil I haven't felt comfortable with our recruitment. Lazy buys.

One good run of games under Koeman that saved our season, aside from that we've been shite all round.

He's had a few nice holidays on us like, little sight seeing tour around Italy last summer. Other than that, they only thing he's done is hired his mates, Allardyce and Shakespeare
Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 23, 2018, 09:18:02 PM
1. The new manager

Fuck no. Not enough time in the day for that anymore. Managers need to focus on coaching the team. Plus, when the manager runs the show, the club loses everything when he goes.

We're still reeling from the transfer team Moyes built being torn down by Martinez/Reeves.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on January 23, 2018, 09:39:21 PM
Fuck no. Not enough time in the day for that anymore. Managers need to focus on coaching the team. Plus, when the manager runs the show, the club loses everything when he goes.

We're still reeling from the transfer team Moyes built being torn down by Martinez/Reeves.

always and every time for me.......football has survived without these people for over 100 years.....
some smart ass brings one in and "its the way forward..." yet no one knows exactly what they do......what's the selection criteria when appointing one...anyone know?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on January 23, 2018, 10:31:55 PM
I would imagine in the bigger scheme of things binning him off wouldn't even cause a ripple in the finances so I'd sack him this afternoon. We managed without a DoF up to now and by and large ran a pretty decent ship. Since he took over we've lurched from one poor decision to another. Bin him off, tell Kenwright to resume transfer negotiations for a week and then we appoint a new DoF in the summer.

Only thing stopping me thinking this is the idea he’s had his hands tied with two directors and 3 managers sticking their fucking noses in.

Go and find us the next Mahrez or Kante and I’ll love you forever. Recommend Patrick van Aanholt and I’m done.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on January 24, 2018, 12:07:15 AM
always and every time for me....... (1) football has survived without these people for over 100 years.....
(2) some smart ass brings one in and "its the way forward..." yet no one knows exactly what they do...... (3) what's the selection criteria when appointing one...anyone know?

(1) It's not about football surviving; that's not a problem. It's about Everton surviving. Teams with dedicated, long-term recruitment experts will leave us in the dust if we keep letting managers control it.

(2) Only because we've done it badly. And no one would describe Moshiri as a "smart ass." He's more of an outright lunatic, if anything.

(3) Organizing a scouting network, identifying targets to fit the team's style of play, negotiating transfers, identifying managers that fit the club's preferred style of play, etc.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on January 24, 2018, 12:29:49 AM
always and every time for me.......football has survived without these people for over 100 years

Professional football evolves and the mandate of certain roles can change quite a bit.

Before WW2 many team selections were picked by the board of directors and a manager was usually just a coach who would organise training.

Then managers had in general more control of football affairs and some of the younger ones could even still operate as players like our very own Kendall at the very beginning of his first managerial spell.

But now in this era it seems imprudent to give too much control to a manager like we did with Moyes and Martinez, the moment they leave or are sacked then that vision they've tried to implement goes with them. If clubs go through on average a manager every 2 years then you see a problem with trying to provide continuity.

A director of football should be able to help formulate a long term vision for the footballing side of the club and help implement it while letting the manager get on with the job of training the players and achieving results on the pitch. The DoF can concentrate on the admin or business side more like negotiating player contracts or transfers and perhaps any upgrade to existing football facilities. We let Martinez have a lot of say in Finch Farm because the club bought into his vision but 18 months later we've got a manager whose philosophy is the polar opposite.

The big problem for Everton though is the implementation of this new structure and I don't think the club has sussed out at all how this DoF role should actually work.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cassius on January 24, 2018, 02:02:00 AM
Now I'm no expert but for me, a DoF should be working with the hierarchy to agree a strategy and playing style for the club (not just the first team).

They create a recruitment plan around these two and install scouts across the world to establish lists of appropriate signings.

They look at the squad, its strengths and weaknesses and identify players that don't fit the strategy and playing style. They move players on and bring in new players to fit.

They then identify a manager to coach the squad and pick a team that fits the squad and playing style.

They represent the continuity across these different areas and don't operate as a single point of failure.

A manager can't do all of this and coach the first team at the same time. A DoF is such an important role to get right.

And we've got it badly wrong.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: mikey_blue on February 02, 2018, 03:02:29 AM
https://twitter.com/MercuryLCFC/status/959018180759957505
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 02, 2018, 07:13:18 AM
https://twitter.com/MercuryLCFC/status/959018180759957505
Seems familiar.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on February 02, 2018, 10:33:53 AM
I think the above posts are quite right ,that the club should have a plan not each and every manager .For me that is not starting with someone who is 65 .I think the Dutch guy mentioned last week is the type and age we should be setting our stall out with ,a chance to get it all in place before he pops his clogs .No ageist or racial bias intended .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on February 04, 2018, 12:21:49 AM
Seems familiar.
It's an absolute joke and shows why you should avoid buying flavour of the month. He's overseen over 250m of player purchases and we have got 10 times worse.....he literally is stealing a living as I believe Joe bloggs could have done a better job.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 04, 2018, 12:32:58 AM
Yes
Now
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on February 04, 2018, 12:40:20 AM
Who shouldn't we sack?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 04, 2018, 12:42:11 AM
Who shouldn't we sack?

The problem is who sacks the idiot who keeps on making these silly appointments?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 04, 2018, 12:47:02 AM
Allardyce and his entire band of bellends
Ferguson who amazingly stays
Walsh and all his faux scouts

All need fucking off and now

Let's see moshiri show some bollocks
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on February 04, 2018, 12:48:40 AM
Bought a 'much needed striker' and one the manager doesn't rate. Brilliant
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on February 04, 2018, 12:49:06 AM
As Lxxx pretty much hinted

We need to sack the sacker
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on February 04, 2018, 01:09:54 AM
Should sack the entire lot of Sam's mates and his staff ......Get Unsy back in before Oxford snap him up 😅😅😅
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 04, 2018, 01:16:10 AM
The problem is who sacks the idiot who keeps on making these silly appointments?

Moshiri, he signed up to the belief that money was well spent, but the wrong coach in charge. Now we've got his preferred manager and things are as bad as ever. But he appointed Walsh and has delegated and relied on him since. Last few months he's got his manager and 3 new big signings, so money has still flowed to the last.

I don't think you have to replace DoF until ideal candidate is found if at all. We have scouts and no window until summer and we need to restructure things, as it's been shit.

But I think it's getting to the stage where Allardyce has a more solid excuse, not dissimilar to Koeman and if the problem is Allardyce, the problem is still Walsh.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 04, 2018, 02:47:00 AM
This twat can fucking leg-it aswel.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on February 04, 2018, 11:03:49 AM
Williams and schniderlin both signed under him. Watch this. Absolute disgrace, they don't care

https://twitter.com/petesimon16efc/status/959860556474830854
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on February 04, 2018, 11:06:27 AM
Williams and schniderlin both signed under him. Watch this. Absolute disgrace, they don't care

https://twitter.com/petesimon16efc/status/959860556474830854
Fucking disgraceful
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on February 04, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
Williams and Schniederlin have koemans name all over them signing here. Obviously Walsh agreed, and I'm not defending Walsh either, but those were koemans signings.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Goaljira on February 04, 2018, 03:41:09 PM
Playing devils advocate, we don't know for certain who targeted which players.

Koeman:
Williams
Schneiderlin
Sigurdsson
Martina
Steklenberg
Klaassen (?)

Walsh:
Gueye
Sandro
Lookman
Tosun

Allardyce:
Walcott
Mangala

Bill:
Rooney

The you've got:
Pickford
Keane
Vlasic (Only after he played against us)
And all the kids signed(Inc DCL)

You've potentially got 2 managers buying *their* players with *their* system in mind, and then glorified scout Walsh bringing in potential who neither manager really wanted to gamble on.

The players that *look* like Walsh signings have either done well for us, or despite being under utilised have either gone to or were wanted by better teams than us this year.  Allardyce's comments before Tosun arrived about him not being sure about him sort of set up the current situation - it does SA no good if a player he didnt really want comes in and tears the league up as it questions his judgement.

Walsh probably is a decent scout, but that doesnt justify his role at Everton.  He doesnt come across as someone you'd look to as an authorititive figure, and if he's getting over-ruled or even walked over by whoever our *manager* is then he needs to be shown the door.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on February 04, 2018, 05:07:40 PM
Williams and schniderlin both signed under him. Watch this. Absolute disgrace, they don't care

https://twitter.com/petesimon16efc/status/959860556474830854

I said weeks ago schniederlins always in close proximity to the goals scored against us normally that close he's able to do something weather that be a tackle or just basic closing down and he does nothing what so ever,,, you see that happen with nearly every goal,, how come 3 managers dont see it pathectic especially for sam what with him being a master tactician who re watches games and still doesnt act on it
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on February 04, 2018, 05:11:39 PM
Fucking disgraceful
Watching that makes my blood boil.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on February 04, 2018, 05:18:37 PM
Someone should knock up a compilation vid because i guarantee there be about 8 outta 10 goals like that and then tweet it to sam
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on February 04, 2018, 07:24:50 PM
Yup .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on February 04, 2018, 07:50:10 PM
Williams and schniderlin both signed under him. Watch this. Absolute disgrace, they don't care

https://twitter.com/petesimon16efc/status/959860556474830854

Williams in fairness was watching the guy to his other side mostly off camera. Schneiderlin on the other hand has jogged around with that sort of enthusiasm for ages. To a certain extent I can forgive a lack of talent if someone is at least trying, but not trying is one of the most infuriating things to watch.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 07, 2018, 04:58:05 AM
What does Walsh fill his days doing?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 07, 2018, 05:03:40 AM
What does Walsh fill his days doing?
Wanking I assume
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on February 07, 2018, 05:03:52 AM
What does Walsh fill his days doing?

Talking, really slowly and quietly
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on February 07, 2018, 05:07:07 AM
What does Walsh fill his days doing?

No fucking clue.

Just in the bundesliga alone there is a plethora of left backs.

Plattenhardt, Hector, Max, Toljan, Wendall... But no, let's go grab a 36 year old and probably pay him 150k+ a week....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Paddockoldie on February 07, 2018, 05:42:28 AM
I think Walsh got lucky with a few gems and then Leicester winning the prem sealed his reputation. Like Martinez, Koeman and now SA he's been found out. He has done little here to justify his role at the club and needs to go, either now or at the end of season just like fat head. The club needs cleansing and players like the shithouse Schniederlin, Williams and Martina need shifting out. There's a lot of work to do it we'll eventually run out of luck because luck, as in there's shite below us is gonna run out at some point and we'll get relegated.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Redartin on February 07, 2018, 05:43:21 AM
What does Walsh fill his days doing?
Shafting Moshiri.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 07, 2018, 02:39:11 PM
Williams in fairness was watching the guy to his other side mostly off camera. Schneiderlin on the other hand has jogged around with that sort of enthusiasm for ages. To a certain extent I can forgive a lack of talent if someone is at least trying, but not trying is one of the most infuriating things to watch.

Schneiderlin is the heart-breaker for me. I was really chuffed when we signed him. Thought he would answer a lot of problems we had with our midfield; finally a box-to-box midfielder we've craved for so long, and look at him... Christ...
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 07, 2018, 02:44:00 PM
I think Walsh got lucky with a few gems and then Leicester winning the prem sealed his reputation. Like Martinez, Koeman and now SA he's been found out. He has done little here to justify his role at the club and needs to go, either now or at the end of season just like fat head. The club needs cleansing and players like the shithouse Schniederlin, Williams and Martina need shifting out. There's a lot of work to do it we'll eventually run out of luck because luck, as in there's shite below us is gonna run out at some point and we'll get relegated.

If we are to persist with a Director of Football, then I am all for bringing this PSV guy in; someone who has had experience in the role over many years, rather than got lucky on the back of a few signings made a couple of years ago.

Look at Galloway for evidence; loaned him out for experience, in a position we are crying out for, he played 2 games and we still didn't terminate his loan and bring him back. Baffling.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on February 07, 2018, 02:44:20 PM
I honestly think that with the right manager Schneiderlin will get his form back and be great for us.

Problem is we've had far to many wrong managers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cereal Killer on February 07, 2018, 02:47:40 PM
What does Walsh fill his days doing?

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FearlessDependentAcornbarnacle-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 07, 2018, 03:26:17 PM
A man way, way out of his depth. I've not seen any improvement to any aspect of the footballing side since his appointment, in fact we have regressed on pretty much every metric you want to assess us by. In any other large organisation outside of football he'd have been long gone by now and replaced with a black mark against his name but there he is, sat with his dinosaur mate in his big flash office beaming from ear to ear.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 07, 2018, 03:32:27 PM
Two positions we really needed to fill; two positions they have claimed there are no available players for in two separate windows. Not good enough. Bye-bye.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on February 07, 2018, 03:32:42 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FearlessDependentAcornbarnacle-max-1mb.gif)

Fun coupons
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 07, 2018, 03:35:31 PM
Two positions we really needed to fill; two positions they have claimed there are no available players for in two separate windows. Not good enough. Bye-bye.

The two positions we really need to fill are new CEO and new DoF. The new manager can come once you have the right people in place above him.

But I know what you mean. Master scout my arse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on February 07, 2018, 03:47:26 PM
The two positions we really need to fill are new CEO and new DoF. The new manager can come once you have the right people in place above him.

But I know what you mean. Master scout my arse.

We need a new CEO who knows football and Moshiri can leave the footballing side of things to them and he can concentrate on the commercial side of things. Wow David Dein is 74 now.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Escla on February 07, 2018, 04:05:50 PM
If anyone has an online subscripton to The Times there is a 57 minute podcast today by Oliver Kay entitled ďThe Everton capital car crash, Walsh entirely responsible for woeful performancesĒ

Hope the Board listen to it !
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on February 07, 2018, 04:16:23 PM
If anyone has an online subscripton to The Times there is a 57 minute podcast today by Oliver Kay entitled ďThe Everton capital car crash, Walsh entirely responsible for woeful performancesĒ

Hope the Board listen to it !

cheers...its also available on the Apple podcast app, search The Game...

usually swerve it cause Marcotti likes to shout over people when they try to give an opinion he doesnt agree with
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on February 07, 2018, 04:18:19 PM
Me personally after working in and around many clubs do not get this position of DOF.....

why do we/anyone need a DOF....

like ive said before I don't know one in any club that's worked out in this country...

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on February 07, 2018, 04:21:12 PM
Me personally after working in and around many clubs do not get this position of DOF.....

why do we/anyone need a DOF....

like ive said before I don't know one in any club that's worked out in this country...

Manchester City
Chelsea
Arsenal - Head of Recruitment (similar)


theres 3
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 07, 2018, 04:22:48 PM
Me personally after working in and around many clubs do not get this position of DOF.....

why do we/anyone need a DOF....

like ive said before I don't know one in any club that's worked out in this country...



I understand the sound theory behind it but in practice you need to have a stable club with a clearly definable strategy from the board to enable it to work, I would have thought.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on February 07, 2018, 04:32:36 PM
I honestly think that with the right manager Schneiderlin will get his form back and be great for us.

Problem is we've had far to many wrong managers.

I agree, I think Schneiderlin is our best central midfielder, he just isnt showing it at the moment, but then again very few are in our team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on February 07, 2018, 04:35:23 PM
Manchester City
Chelsea
Arsenal - Head of Recruitment (similar)


theres 3

Guardiola has final say on all transfers....I know this for a fact...
I would of accepted Chelsea however, I also know that all transfers are finalised initially by the conte at the moment although this has now become a bit precarious hence the friction in the club...
and everyone knows wenger has final say on players transfers....

so although I agree there's people in situ...do they actually have the final say?...like I've said most DOF's I know/know of seem to have more of a say around the youth set up/academies....and "manage" the scouting system......however, don't have the final say..so to speak....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 07, 2018, 04:57:48 PM
I agree, I think Schneiderlin is our best central midfielder, he just isnt showing it at the moment, but then again very few are in our team.

Last decent run of games was three years ago. Not sure it's as simple as saying he's just a tweak of motivation away from rediscovering the form he had at Southampton. Looks a vastly different player now to me, we should be aiming for the profile of player he was back then, young talented and hungry to succeed, not waiting forever for him to suddenly arrest three years of decline.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on February 07, 2018, 05:47:03 PM
Last decent run of games was three years ago. Not sure it's as simple as saying he's just a tweak of motivation away from rediscovering the form he had at Southampton. Looks a vastly different player now to me, we should be aiming for the profile of player he was back then, young talented and hungry to succeed, not waiting forever for him to suddenly arrest three years of decline.

Got his big money move to Man Utd and hasn't done anything since . Coasting it here and not interested in putting in a shift . No one will pay what we did so he is another loss on the balance sheet .

Edit : How anyone can say he is our best defensive midfielder based on what he has done here is beyond me . The few times he has made a tackle he has got a card . He is a top shithouse .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 07, 2018, 07:07:51 PM
Interesting, and probably a better bet for DOF than Walsh, but too late now...

https://twitter.com/pbsportswriter/status/961209114570514435
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on February 07, 2018, 07:17:23 PM
Leipzig hired Paul Mitchell?

:-(
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 07, 2018, 07:18:26 PM
Yep. I know they are much maligned in Germany, but their model is the one we really should be following.

Expect a bid for Lookman to come in soon.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 07, 2018, 07:20:39 PM
Yep. I know they are much maligned in Germany, but their model is the one we really should be following.

Expect a bid for Lookman to come in soon.

We'd probably take it too. More money for Sam to put towards Cresswell.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 07, 2018, 08:57:34 PM
cheers...its also available on the Apple podcast app, search The Game...

usually swerve it cause Marcotti likes to shout over people when they try to give an opinion he doesnt agree with

Getting on this raaaa now
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 07, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
http://readeverton.com/2018/02/07/everton-failed-deadline-day-bid-mario-hermoso/

Apparently we offered £8m for a player with a £40m release clause on Deadline Day. Smacks of a panic bid.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 07, 2018, 09:32:48 PM
http://readeverton.com/2018/02/07/everton-failed-deadline-day-bid-mario-hermoso/

Apparently we offered £8m for a player with a £40m release clause on Deadline Day. Smacks of a panic bid.

It's like watching a 10 year old kid play Football Manager this season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on February 07, 2018, 09:43:49 PM
Me personally after working in and around many clubs do not get this position of DOF.....

why do we/anyone need a DOF....

like ive said before I don't know one in any club that's worked out in this country...

Although they call him executive director les reed seems to do a could job for southampton ,,,worth a read http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37954971
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 07, 2018, 09:52:33 PM
The two positions we really need to fill are new CEO and new DoF. The new manager can come once you have the right people in place above him.

But I know what you mean. Master scout my arse.

What's your beef with Elstone?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on February 07, 2018, 09:56:05 PM
And another thing,, that befoldi we was looking at signing at the beginning of the season what a load of cack he is even his youtube vids were proper shit and he aint got no better thank god koeman squashed that one  http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/02/06/ishak-belfodil-fails-to-show-everton-that-koeman-made-mistake/
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on February 07, 2018, 10:00:38 PM
Les Reed is a great example how you work through football at every level, learn the job from top to bottom then secure yourself at executive level....

He was a great visionary at the FA who took a back seat on most things he implemented and allowed others to take the credit..

most of the managers he worked with he led them by example...he set the tone and led the way....

some of his seminars were great visionary examples of how to move the game forward.....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 08, 2018, 01:12:48 AM
What's your beef with Elstone?

The club, for their size, have been largely static commercially, I lack confidence in our abilities to negotiate the best possible sponsorship deals, and there are existing concerns over the suitability of the Kitbag deal and his part in it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on February 08, 2018, 01:33:30 AM
Leipzig hired Paul Mitchell?

:-(


Yeah.

I reckon we will end up with Phil Mitchell








Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bigmanbob on February 08, 2018, 01:40:56 AM
I can't believe this is even getting discussed, he has to go ASAP
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 08, 2018, 01:52:29 AM
The club, for their size, have been largely static commercially, I lack confidence in our abilities to negotiate the best possible sponsorship deals, and there are existing concerns over the suitability of the Kitbag deal and his part in it.

Commercial revenue went up 66% last year.

Kitbag deal turned an area we lost money, into several million profit,it expires in a couple of years. They now have deals with 50% of PL, 70% of La Liga etc. Instead of fighting for retail space, we went for online sales and it worked out much better financially. Being in retail shops reduced profit margin for club, even though retail price was similar.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 08, 2018, 02:01:39 AM
Commercial revenue went up 66% last year.

Kitbag deal turned an area we lost money, into several million profit,it expires in a couple of years. They now have deals with 50% of PL, 70% of La Liga etc. Instead of fighting for retail space, we went for online sales and it worked out much better financially. Being in retail shops reduced profit margin for club, even though retail price was similar.

He likes rugby.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on February 08, 2018, 02:10:44 AM
Commercial revenue went up 66% last year.

Kitbag deal turned an area we lost money, into several million profit,it expires in a couple of years. They now have deals with 50% of PL, 70% of La Liga etc. Instead of fighting for retail space, we went for online sales and it worked out much better financially. Being in retail shops reduced profit margin for club, even though retail price was similar.

Never understood the hate for Elstone.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 08, 2018, 02:27:41 AM
He likes rugby.

I think the rugby job is largely why he gets the grassroots, importance of community projects and engaging with fans. He's a suit, but on the numbers he's always been good, and on the fan interaction I'd say he was always considerate and professional. Fanbase was so used to scratching their eyes out at the job BK was doing before him, that Elstone's early deals were treated more suspiciously.

He might just be the last competent senior member of staff, his days are probably numbered.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 08, 2018, 03:45:08 AM
@Ridge (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=60) can I ask where your figures are from re: last years commercial performance btw? Would be interested in having a look if theyíre available somewhere
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 08, 2018, 05:20:04 AM
@Ridge (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=60) can I ask where your figures are from re: last years commercial performance btw? Would be interested in having a look if theyíre available somewhere

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/12/22/everton-posts-record-turnover-and-30m-post-tax-profit (http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/12/22/everton-posts-record-turnover-and-30m-post-tax-profit)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on February 08, 2018, 06:22:32 AM
Leipzig hired Paul Mitchell?

:-(
Weíll probably sign Peggy, Phil or Grant
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: 74Blue on February 08, 2018, 01:46:41 PM
Weíll probably sign Peggy, Phil or Grant
Knowing Everton, we'll bring in all three. The dream team...
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 08, 2018, 02:10:55 PM
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/12/22/everton-posts-record-turnover-and-30m-post-tax-profit (http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/12/22/everton-posts-record-turnover-and-30m-post-tax-profit)

Thank you, but sponsorship & advertising =/= commercial performance. And that was the year we signed our new shirt sponsors and introduced a sleeve sponsor, so you would expect a big jump in spon. Would be interested to see other clubs % growth for each new sponsor.

For commercial to have grown 66% last year would represent a stunning turnaround, as since 2013 commercial has grown by just £8m (as of 2016 accounts), and by those accounts profit from commercial had dropped between 15-16.

In fact, if you look at our EBITDA for that account period, the only clubs worse than Everton at proftiable revenue generation are Swansea, Sunderland, Stoke, and Villa.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on February 08, 2018, 03:10:04 PM
Thank you, but sponsorship & advertising =/= commercial performance. And that was the year we signed our new shirt sponsors and introduced a sleeve sponsor, so you would expect a big jump in spon. Would be interested to see other clubs % growth for each new sponsor.

For commercial to have grown 66% last year would represent a stunning turnaround, as since 2013 commercial has grown by just £8m (as of 2016 accounts), and by those accounts profit from commercial had dropped between 15-16.

In fact, if you look at our EBITDA for that account period, the only clubs worse than Everton at proftiable revenue generation are Swansea, Sunderland, Stoke, and Villa.
Relative measures like the 66% aren't very helpful really because they lack context. How did that £8m increase compare to the clubs above us or to clubs like Leicester, West Ham and Southampton?

If a £1 bet returned you £1.66 that's a 66% increase too, but it's also nothing to write home about.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 08, 2018, 05:15:54 PM
Thank you, but sponsorship & advertising =/= commercial performance. And that was the year we signed our new shirt sponsors and introduced a sleeve sponsor, so you would expect a big jump in spon. Would be interested to see other clubs % growth for each new sponsor.

For commercial to have grown 66% last year would represent a stunning turnaround, as since 2013 commercial has grown by just £8m (as of 2016 accounts), and by those accounts profit from commercial had dropped between 15-16.

In fact, if you look at our EBITDA for that account period, the only clubs worse than Everton at proftiable revenue generation are Swansea, Sunderland, Stoke, and Villa.

You're only likely to get a major increase when you sign new deals, deals are never going to increase like that over duration of agreement. I wouldn't expect many clubs to post increases of that size, Leicester maybe? But you normally expect improved financial results to follow improved on pitch performances, in part because commercial agreements reward based on performance.

SportPesa is included and shows the increase of about double on previous year and supposedly will show 3 fold increase on Chang deal in due course. Was about £10m, puts us about 7th/8th overall on main sponsor, behind who you'd expect. It tends to make up around 20%-40% of commercial revenue, so key element to get right. It's not the best deal, but it's not the worst and it's a big improvement.

Sleeve sponsor is earning United about £10m, average in PL is probably closer to £1m and probably accounts for something like 5% increase in most cases, only started this season didn't it? not sure that would be included or for full year. In the scheme of things Angry Birds is a sponsor I quite like the profile of. Innovative, engages young fans, digital content, global reach. I can't help but feel we might have got more content, potential, if things hadn't been so shit on the field.

Would assume USM deal for training ground is also included, but again not sure how many months. That is worth a similar amount over a year as the increase in value of the shirt sponsor, supposedly about £5m. Obviously that's tied to board connections, but that's not something a CEO can control.

It's not the entire commercial profit, but then Goodison has limitations with regard to corporate facilities and commercial space. Essentially there is very little room to increase profitability without increasing prices or flogging us more tat or treating us more as consumers.

There's only so much work you can do on marketing and actually I think the comedy decisions are not in our commercial operation anymore. Elstone can't control managerial appointments, DoF, transfers or performances on the field. But off the field the poor choices are in boardroom Elstone is a part of. But he's not calling the shots, he's dealing with the fallout and poor decisions, his job could be much easier if we had a manager who managed the club with pride and ambition, which company would want to be associated with us this season?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 08, 2018, 05:22:00 PM
Remember that time he was on the pitch with LA Galaxy?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 08, 2018, 07:01:45 PM
:(

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bigl1cks on February 08, 2018, 07:11:01 PM
Wonder if there is any truth in this?
Seems Walshy
http://futnsoccer.com/2018/02/08/everton-reportedly-fail-in-late-attempt-to-land-former-real-madrid-starlet/


Can you remove this link please, it is not a safe website.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 08, 2018, 08:23:53 PM
Relative measures like the 66% aren't very helpful really because they lack context. How did that £8m increase compare to the clubs above us or to clubs like Leicester, West Ham and Southampton?

If a £1 bet returned you £1.66 that's a 66% increase too, but it's also nothing to write home about.

If you have commercial activities overall, then you end up saying about how West Ham have new stadium, Leicester have recent success, they are not comparable situations. 66% was just to highlight stagnant is not an accurate summary. Feel free to pick the bones out of the new deals.

On shirt sponsor, Leicester are getting around £4m a year because it's the owner's brand and old deal. West Ham £8m, Southampton about £6m. But would expect similar or better results from commercial operations at stadiums due to locations and facilities.

Elstone doesn't control every aspect, under his control things tend to run smoothly. Everyone wants a CEO to be a negotiating goliath with corporates, sensitive about ticket and product prices and not sell that sort of tacky stuff. Maybe the best endorsement for him, is he probably used to be more heavily involved in negotiations for players before it became Walsh's remit.

CEO's tend to be unpopular, Brady is on 650k at West Ham, Scholes 750k at Stoke, Peace 1m at West Brom, Levy £2m, Woodward £2.5m. Elstone is on 400k, been at the club a decade, vast improvement on Wyness and if anyone finds a direct problem with him let me know. He's always seemed to solve far more problems than he's caused, seemed a good negotiator and communicator.

When you consider we spent £10m getting rid of Koeman, and similar getting Allardyce, Walsh cost £2m to get from Leicester will likely have incentives and a bigger salary. I really see Elstone as the remaining bit of continuity among senior staff and only one providing value for money. I understand it's all gone to shit, but that's not an issue with marketing, we are shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on February 08, 2018, 09:44:05 PM
If you have commercial activities overall, then you end up saying about how West Ham have new stadium, Leicester have recent success, they are not comparable situations. 66% was just to highlight stagnant is not an accurate summary. Feel free to pick the bones out of the new deals.

On shirt sponsor, Leicester are getting around £4m a year because it's the owner's brand and old deal. West Ham £8m, Southampton about £6m. But would expect similar or better results from commercial operations at stadiums due to locations and facilities. 
In the main, I don't really think you're wrong about Elstone's performance. I do think having figures for those "less fashionable" clubs though is important. For all of their advantages, we'll have some of our own, so it will average out somewhat. (Also, the use of relative figures is just a big bug bear of mine. :))

So, if we're comparable with Leicester, West Ham, Southampton and West Ham, you won't really get all that much argument from me at this stage.

There definitely are areas related to him I'd  pull up though. He's been CEO (or deputy CEO) during two failed stadium moves. He presided over the new badge fiasco.

There may also be an argument that he's a little short termist in his deals. As you said earlier, well only improve revenues when we sign new contracts. So given that, 5 years for SportPesa and 10 years for Kitbag feel like they could bring in a little more money now but with less relative to our potential down the backend. (There have certainly been suggestions that this sort of thing has hindered Arsenal.)

I don't really think he's the figure of failure he's painted though, no.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 09, 2018, 12:20:22 AM
Again 66% was sponsorship, commercial was static, losing profit between 15 and 16 and largely static since 2013
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Escla on February 09, 2018, 01:17:59 AM
I can't believe this is even getting discussed, he has to go ASAP

I just wonder if he has any idea how strongly the supporters feel about his abysmal performance, how the pundits and the press have sussed him out or is he just so arrogant that he believes heís doing a good job
Or does he know heís fucked up big time and pissed away over £150 million and just doesnít give a shit ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 09, 2018, 02:04:29 AM
I just wonder if he has any idea how strongly the supporters feel about his abysmal performance, how the pundits and the press have sussed him out or is he just so arrogant that he believes he’s doing a good job
Or does he know he’s fucked up big time and pissed away over £150 million and just doesn’t give a shit ?

Biggest payday of his career, I don't think he's that arsed one bit. He's soon to be retired, same as Sam, same as Sammy Lee probably. I'm noticing a theme here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue slug on February 09, 2018, 02:40:22 AM
Heís proper shite and done fuck all heís got to go surely
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on February 09, 2018, 05:23:13 AM
Again 66% was sponsorship, commercial was static, losing profit between 15 and 16 and largely static since 2013

Presume you're comparing matchday revenue from a european year.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Trowel on February 10, 2018, 06:02:55 AM
Dom King on it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5374059/Steve-Walsh-faces-sack-Evertons-director-football.html
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bluenuck on February 10, 2018, 11:33:04 AM
Dom King on it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5374059/Steve-Walsh-faces-sack-Evertons-director-football.html

Not a fan of King, but I'm a fan of reading that.

To think well over 50 mil. has been spent on three players(Klassen, Sandro, Tosun), and who knows how much on wages, and not one of them has even helped this team this season. Barely played.  shakeyheadman
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: School of Science on February 10, 2018, 01:58:22 PM
Dom King on it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5374059/Steve-Walsh-faces-sack-Evertons-director-football.html

Agree with most of that, but the small piece about Tosun I don't, surely it's too early to judge him ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on February 10, 2018, 02:04:47 PM
Andy Hunter tweeting the same
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Alanvideo on February 10, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
from The Guardian.......
<<<<<< Walsh is under growing pressure over the meagre return on the most expensive recruitment drive in the clubís history. Everton have spent almost £200m in the past two transfer windows Ė only five clubs in Europe have spent more in that period Ė but are seven points above the relegation zone with 12 matches remaining. It is understood Walshís position is under review by the owner, Farhad Moshiri. Marcel Brands, the sporting director at PSV Eindhoven, is a possible replacement. >>>>>>>>
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Alanvideo on February 10, 2018, 04:19:07 PM
Biggest payday of his career, I don't think he's that arsed one bit. He's soon to be retired, same as Sam, same as Sammy Lee probably. I'm noticing a theme here.
..............Walsh is 53 ,I doubt he's contemplating retirement just yet. He's got to go though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 10, 2018, 04:32:58 PM
..............Walsh is 53 ,I doubt he's contemplating retirement just yet. He's got to go though.

Is he? Fuckin hell he looks rough then.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Alanvideo on February 10, 2018, 04:43:22 PM
Is he? Fuckin hell he looks rough then.
...................he's had bad digs ( as they used to say )
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on February 10, 2018, 04:56:38 PM
Is he? Fuckin hell he looks rough then.

Thought he was in his 60s myself like.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on February 10, 2018, 08:06:35 PM
Agree with most of that, but the small piece about Tosun I don't, surely it's too early to judge him ?
I think the issue was that we needed a striker who can contribute right away. It's pointless to buy players in January otherwise.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 10, 2018, 08:24:30 PM
The very simple answer to the question is yes. Fuck him off
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 10, 2018, 08:31:47 PM
Living off that fact he struck reasonably lucky with three players, which considering the amount of players he's bought over the years isn't some guarantee of a success rate. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Confucius on February 11, 2018, 11:27:26 PM
The very simple answer to the question is yes. Fuck him off

New DOF is still going to sign Guidetti tho.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on February 12, 2018, 04:37:43 AM
..............Walsh is 53 ,I doubt he's contemplating retirement just yet. He's got to go though.
He's not the first Walsh who has come to Goodison with a big reputation remember his brother Michael?
Well it looks like his latest signing has settled in.oh wait.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on February 12, 2018, 01:57:16 PM
Poor isn't he? Shite in fact. Pathetic.

Get rid.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 12, 2018, 04:52:37 PM
I couldn't help wonder at the time what he had done in football for the decades prior to Leicester winning the league.
It may be that he's been overseeing gems all over the place, but nobody was ever able to point to anything else from him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on February 12, 2018, 05:03:23 PM
The very simple answer to the question is yes. Fuck him off

If I knew how to do it id set a poll, 2 choices:

'1: Yes - sack him immediately'
'2: The above answer'

Done
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on February 12, 2018, 05:32:02 PM
If I knew how to do it id set a poll, 2 choices:

'1: Yes - sack him immediately'
'2: The above answer'

Done
3 sack BFS as well
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 12, 2018, 11:48:24 PM
The fact we didnít sign a striker after losing lukaku is enough to sack him imo
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: fubarruk on February 13, 2018, 01:43:34 AM
The fact we didn't sign a striker after losing lukaku is enough to sack him imo
This 100%, end of story
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on February 13, 2018, 03:44:19 PM
Time for Walsh to go - as with his brother, didn't work out
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on February 15, 2018, 02:03:08 PM
I'd be embarrassed to show up for work every day, if I was this fella.

If I make a mistake at work (which happens frequently) that causes one of my colleagues extra work or stress, I'm mortified.

Imagine overseeing the spending of £250m and getting so much wrong. The Tosun one has to take the biscuit though.

What a laughably bad manifestation of total professional ineptitude. How this fella (Walsh) has the testicular fortitude and shamelessness to swan into work every morning is beyond me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on February 15, 2018, 02:09:23 PM
I'd be embarrassed to show up for work every day, if I was this fella.

If I make a mistake at work (which happens frequently) that causes one of my colleagues extra work or stress, I'm mortified.

Imagine overseeing the spending of £250m and getting so much wrong. The Tosun one has to take the biscuit though.

What a laughably bad manifestation of total professional ineptitude. How this fella (Walsh) has the testicular fortitude and shamelessness to swan into work every morning is beyond me.

What does he actually do, apart from give his mate a job?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 15, 2018, 02:13:29 PM
I'd be embarrassed to show up for work every day, if I was this fella.

If I make a mistake at work (which happens frequently) that causes one of my colleagues extra work or stress, I'm mortified.

Imagine overseeing the spending of £250m and getting so much wrong. The Tosun one has to take the biscuit though.

What a laughably bad manifestation of total professional ineptitude. How this fella (Walsh) has the testicular fortitude and shamelessness to swan into work every morning is beyond me.

Yeah, even if Tosun does go on and prove to be a decent 12 goals a year striker (which, let's be honest, for the money and with his past record is as good as it's going to get), the fact is we went into the January transfer window all agreeing (club and all) that a striker and a left back were the weakest parts of the squad.

We still don't have a left back and it could be St Patricks day before we see the new striker being an acceptable risk.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 15, 2018, 02:24:30 PM
All starting to look as if our new owner was seduced by the biggest upset in football history and decided to act without engaging his brain first. Not the only time one might add.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: stirlingblue on February 15, 2018, 03:14:12 PM
Just started a new job and my bossís dad is a scout at Leicester, said that Walsh didnít even scout the likes of Kante, Mahrez and Vardy. Itís just one of those things people assume and Walsh doesnít go out of his way to correct them
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bogie on February 15, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
Just started a new job and my boss’s dad is a scout at Leicester, said that Walsh didn’t even scout the likes of Kante, Mahrez and Vardy. It’s just one of those things people assume and Walsh doesn’t go out of his way to correct them

the head scout at all clubs would not be the one to scout them others would then he goes and looks at them it is his team of scouts that do the leg work

is he a good head scout    yes
is he a good DoF              no
will he get better at it       you would fucking hope so   

will he be sacked not till he has hard 4/5 windows he has had 3 so far
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 15, 2018, 03:27:56 PM
the head scout at all clubs would not be the one to scout them others would then he goes and looks at them it is his team of scouts that do the leg work

is he a good head scout    yes
is he a good DoF              no
will he get better at it       you would fucking hope so   

will he be sacked not till he has hard 4/5 windows he has had 3 so far

You could argue he's failed in all 3 though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bogie on February 15, 2018, 03:30:13 PM
You could argue he's failed in all 3 though.

well with no left back its clear he has really

if a left back had of come in the window just past then that would have been a great window
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on February 15, 2018, 03:43:58 PM
A lot of the continued issues we see now are reasons why I didnt think it was right to get rid of Koeman. Walsh is the main perpetrator behind what has gone wrong, and with each passing transfer it becomes more and more evident. The bloke has been given too much responsibility based on the fact he got a few decent players in at Leicester, it might be that Klasseen, Sandro, Tosun, Keane et al will turn out to be amazing next year but I dont think we can afford to go through this year again with so many failures.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on February 15, 2018, 03:45:18 PM
Correct
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 15, 2018, 03:49:50 PM
A lot of the continued issues we see now are reasons why I didnt think it was right to get rid of Koeman. Walsh is the main perpetrator behind what has gone wrong, and with each passing transfer it becomes more and more evident. The bloke has been given too much responsibility based on the fact he got a few decent players in at Leicester, it might be that Klasseen, Sandro, Tosun, Keane et al will turn out to be amazing next year but I dont think we can afford to go through this year again with so many failures.

Koeman wasn't getting the best out of what he had though. The team was dysfunctional, low on morale, had no shape and we weren't winning football matches. Regardless of whose fault that was (and I agree Walsh has to take the lions share of the blame) if you're losing football matches regularly you need to change something and as you can't change the players mid-season, and binning the DoF wouldn't have affected what happens on the pitch, then it had to be the manager. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on February 15, 2018, 04:22:20 PM
Koeman wasn't getting the best out of what he had though. The team was dysfunctional, low on morale, had no shape and we weren't winning football matches. Regardless of whose fault that was (and I agree Walsh has to take the lions share of the blame) if you're losing football matches regularly you need to change something and as you can't change the players mid-season, and binning the DoF wouldn't have affected what happens on the pitch, then it had to be the manager. 

I know and I do agree, I just wish we still had Koeman in charge instead of who we now have (I know, I need to get over it!!). I just think we missed a massive trick in the summer to really move the club forward and instead its gone backwards and the man that was mainly responsible is still making the same terrible decisions.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 15, 2018, 04:26:10 PM
I know and I do agree, I just wish we still had Koeman in charge instead of who we now have (I know, I need to get over it!!). I just think we missed a massive trick in the summer to really move the club forward and instead its gone backwards and the man that was mainly responsible is still making the same terrible decisions.

Totally. The biggest mistake Moshiri made was appointing Walsh in the first place. We could have kicked on from 7th position with bags of money to strengthen last summer but we had the wrong man way out of his depth in charge of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on February 15, 2018, 06:09:44 PM
So what  was he doing that time in Italy when he turned up with his crew doing their best Sopranos impressions?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: stirlingblue on February 15, 2018, 06:10:39 PM
It's hard to completely judge without all of the information.

For all we know, Walsh could have identified some real gems who just didn't want to play for us. If you're a foreign player, I'm not sure why you would want to play for us tbh
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on February 15, 2018, 06:16:20 PM
So what  was he doing that time in Italy when he turned up with his crew doing their best Sopranos impressions?
Maybe we should put a horses head in his bed and see if he gets the message
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 15, 2018, 06:51:35 PM
It's hard to completely judge without all of the information.

For all we know, Walsh could have identified some real gems who just didn't want to play for us. If you're a foreign player, I'm not sure why you would want to play for us tbh

...and the one's we have signed - Vlasic, Klaassen, Sandro and Lookman - cannot even get a game.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 15, 2018, 07:58:23 PM
In the interest of balance itís interesting to see thereís two very juxtaposed trains of thought that never seem to question one another

1. Walsh is a failure and bought donkeys

2. Vlasic/ lookman / tosun / klaassen / Onyekuru* all need more game time and some are potential world beaters*
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sam of the south on February 15, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
In the interest of balance itís interesting to see thereís two very juxtaposed trains of thought that never seem to question one another

1. Walsh is a failure and bought donkeys

2. Vlasic/ lookman / tosun / klaassen / Onyekuru* all need more game time and some are potential world beaters*

Very true, and as is usual the truth is probably somewhere in between
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Alanvideo on February 15, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
Going by this thread Walsh is despised almost as much as Allardyce.  Lee and Shakespeare must be ok then ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on February 15, 2018, 09:22:44 PM
Going by this thread Walsh is despised almost as much as Allardyce.  Lee and Shakespeare must be ok then ?
Oh Fuck no!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Polledreng on February 15, 2018, 09:35:09 PM
Going by this thread Walsh is despised almost as much as Allardyce.  Lee and Shakespeare must be ok then ?
Never thought I would say that but Lee seems to be the best of a poor bunch - atleast he shows passion and heart
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on February 16, 2018, 12:13:59 AM
That fact that Sammy Lee is the most liked of this lot among the fans shows what a pair of cunts Walsh and Allardyce are
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 16, 2018, 01:04:14 AM
That fact that Sammy Lee is the most liked of this lot among the fans shows what a pair of cunts Walsh and Allardyce are

Haha. Nailed it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 16, 2018, 04:47:47 PM
In the interest of balance itís interesting to see thereís two very juxtaposed trains of thought that never seem to question one another

1. Walsh is a failure and bought donkeys

2. Vlasic/ lookman / tosun / klaassen / Onyekuru* all need more game time and some are potential world beaters*

Shit man, this has properly ruined my world view today.
Because i rate Walcott, Pickford, Keane & Sigurdsson really highly as well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 16, 2018, 07:42:11 PM
Shit man, this has properly ruined my world view today.
Because i rate Walcott, Pickford, Keane & Sigurdsson really highly as well.

Yeah been wrestling with it myself. Donít rate Walsh at all, but if Henry and Lookman develop how I think they should - heís potentially got 4-6 hits on his CV.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on February 17, 2018, 06:18:18 PM
Yeah been wrestling with it myself. Donít rate Walsh at all, but if Henry and Lookman develop how I think they should - heís potentially got 4-6 hits on his CV.
I don't think the two views are necessarily inconsistent with each other though.

Of the players you and @Mick 1995 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=390) have mentioned, Sigurdsson, Onyekuru and Lookman all look to be talented players. In isolation, they're all decent signings. But they've also all spent large parts of their career playing down the left as attacking players. (You could possibly throw Bolasie and Sandro into the mix there too.)

Or the whole 'three number 10s' (plus Davies and Vlasic...) thing.

Building a balanced squad is a huge part of the DoF role. It's inevitable that some players will be viewed as donkeys if they've got that much competition, there's just no way they'll get the minutes to prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 17, 2018, 07:08:29 PM
I'm actually not sure he's done a bad job in the parts he's actually done. The problem has been he's let others make big decisions and they've been expensive mistakes


Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 17, 2018, 07:25:32 PM
In the interest of balance itís interesting to see thereís two very juxtaposed trains of thought that never seem to question one another

1. Walsh is a failure and bought donkeys

2. Vlasic/ lookman / tosun / klaassen / Onyekuru* all need more game time and some are potential world beaters*

I'm probably in the number 2 camp.

More so Vlasic, Klaassen and Lookman.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 17, 2018, 08:45:53 PM
Proper worried about little Davy Klaassen. Especially since heís balling out big time for my PES team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 17, 2018, 09:21:18 PM
I'm actually not sure he's done a bad job in the parts he's actually done. The problem has been he's let others make big decisions and they've been expensive mistakes


At the moment i'm only willing to have Sandro be a mistake - and that was a limited cost one.

I think, after stewing on this some more - it's the stuff he *hasn't* done that has me questioning him.
Left back, width, pace, main striker. Leaving the summer window without that was bad.
Leaving the jan window without 2 of those things still seems indefensible.

If Mangala was genuinely an option at left back then i'll forgive the lack of immediate main striker and happy to give him another window now that @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) has made that point.
If he wasn't then i want him out as 2 windows should be sufficient to fill any 1 position.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 17, 2018, 09:27:21 PM
Make a really good point, it’s definitey the gaps rather than the moves we made. May well see different players out of some of these next year when they’ve had a chance to settle. Very toppsy-turvy year to find your feet in the prem, most disruption we’ve had for about 20 years I’d say.

Imagine how things would have been different had we got :

Kolasinac (LB)
Giroud (St)
KeÔta Balde (Pace)
Koulibaly (Left sided, ball-playing monster CB)
Tuchel (manager)

Honestly that side looks champions league to me.
Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on February 17, 2018, 10:43:35 PM
Why are we still making excuses for this guy?

He spent a lot of money on players that don't belong on the pitch together and with the exception of Giroud, most of those "what ifsĒ were reaches for where we are in the pecking order of European football (and we wasted plenty of time pursuing them). His job is to identify realistic targets that fit the way we want to play and he isn't doing that (I don't think he, or anyone at the club, even has a style in mind). Not to mention that our old squad has stayed old and we're going to have to replace a bunch of his signings in a year or two.

We can and should do better for such an important role at the club. Get rid.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 17, 2018, 11:29:42 PM
I personally think Koeman overpowered him in the first year of the job. The likes of Williams, Klaassan, Martina, Sig, Bolasie and Rooney were all probably players that Koeman insisted on. Same with Giroud which is why we went all out for him and were left high and dry when he bailed.

Walshís fingers look all over Gueye, Pickford, Keane, Sandro, Vlasic and Lookman. Which, when you break it down, doesnít look too bad. His failure to provide a back up to Giroud and any left back whatsoever are blotting his copybook but I think we can lay a lot of blame at Koemanís door as well as Walsh.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: piggypop on February 18, 2018, 03:19:11 AM
I personally think Koeman overpowered him in the first year of the job. The likes of Williams, Klaassan, Martina, Sig, Bolasie and Rooney were all probably players that Koeman insisted on. Same with Giroud which is why we went all out for him and were left high and dry when he bailed.

Walsh's fingers look all over Gueye, Pickford, Keane, Sandro, Vlasic and Lookman. Which, when you break it down, doesn't look too bad. His failure to provide a back up to Giroud and any left back whatsoever are blotting his copybook but I think we can lay a lot of blame at Koeman's door as well as Walsh.
I don't disagree on who was probably  responsible for bringing each of those players in, but if Walsh keeps being over-ruled by managers and those players aren't even good enough for us, then that is enough reason to say he is not the right man for the job and our club.
We need a DoF with balls and a vision of how to shape the playing side of the club.

It's a big worry he's not been booted out already. We need someone useful in that role before we start doing any planning for next season. A DoF should be involved in hiring a new manager (if that was going to happen in the summer) as well as helping to decide what recruitment is needed (as if that hasn't been obvious to almost everyone for the last 18 months)

I'm actually a bit baffled as to how he has managed to cling on for this long with the absolute ineptitude that has been displayed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 18, 2018, 03:22:29 AM
I don't disagree on who was probably  responsible for bringing each of those players in, but if Walsh keeps being over-ruled by managers and those players aren't even good enough for us, then that is enough reason to say he is not the right man for the job and our club.
We need a DoF with balls and a vision of how to shape the playing side of the club.

It's a big worry he's not been booted out already. We need someone useful in that role before we start doing any planning for next season. A DoF should be involved in hiring a new manager (if that was going to happen in the summer) as well as helping to decide what recruitment is needed (as if that hasn't been obvious to almost everyone for the last 18 months)

I'm actually a bit baffled as to how he has managed to cling on for this long with the absolute ineptitude that has been displayed.

He's been weak but I also think it's down to us getting the role of DOF a bit muddled too. It's been a bit of a free for all with our recruitment. Often paying over the odds for proven but not fantastic players the managers appear to have insisted on.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 18, 2018, 03:45:41 AM
Iím not defending him but he was brought in way above his ability and experience level at the same time as a world renowned legend of the game.
I can well imagine him being a little intimidated for the first 12 months and acquiescing to Koeman, who was a forceful character in his own right.

I just think heís a man out of his depth and it would be wise to pay him off and get in a man with a lot more experience of the role to give us some stability moving forwards.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cassius on February 18, 2018, 04:05:57 PM
I've been giving this a lot of thought, weighing up what I know of Walsh, his remit and responsibilities, how he comes across, our recruitment, continuity and the people brought in around him and while my knowledge of a lot of this is limited to just rumours and hearsay, I think my answer to the original question is yes, we should sack the sack of shit.

I should also say that a DoF should be strong enough to overrule a manager on a signing. They should be responsible for the long term, the vision and general style of the club. The manager coaches the available players to the agreed style. The manager is a short term, replaceable role in this structure and their opinion should be valued but not final.

If they're not strong enough to back down over the signing of a player that doesn't fit this, they're not right for the role.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 19, 2018, 02:03:27 PM
I think that is a case of be careful what you wish for, as apparently Allardyce was one Walsh recommended.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 19, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
Proper worried about little Davy Klaassen. Especially since he’s balling out big time for my PES team.

This winds me up more than anything; especially in the light of Sam's comments about Schneiderlin being 'no worse' than others over the weekend. So, basically admitting he has been poor, but still not willing to give Klaassen a chance. It stinks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 19, 2018, 04:51:07 PM
This winds me up more than anything; especially in the light of Sam's comments about Schneiderlin being 'no worse' than others over the weekend. So, basically admitting he has been poor, but still not willing to give Klaassen a chance. It stinks.

To be fair heís been very clear on the fact he thinks klaassen is way off this level at the moment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cereal Killer on February 25, 2018, 01:29:03 AM
Has he gone yet?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on February 25, 2018, 01:30:37 AM
Absolutely stealing a living.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ramjam on February 25, 2018, 08:17:28 AM
Change the lock to his office and see if he gets the hint.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 25, 2018, 06:05:34 PM
I wonder what Walsh's signings would go for now, just to see how much if a disaster it's been.
Lookman, DCL and Gueye probably make up a lot as they're likely to be worth much more than what we paid for them.
My estimates are probably well out and I've probably missed a few, but its an interesting debate.

Bolasie (when fit) - £15m?
Williams - £8m
Gueye - £25m?
DCL - £20m?
Schneiderlin - £20m
Lookman - £25m
Sig - £30m?
Keane - £20m
Pickford - £40m
Klaassen - £18m
Vlasic - £20m
Sandro - £15m
Martina - £8m
Rooney - n/a
Theo - £20m
Tosun - 15m?

Onyekuru - £10m (haven't got a clue)

Total - £309m


Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 25, 2018, 06:09:43 PM
Some of them prices are way wide of the mark

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 25, 2018, 06:18:02 PM
Some of them prices are way wide of the mark



I know, I said that in the post.

Wide as in too high or too low?
And which ones?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 25, 2018, 06:23:51 PM
I know, I said that in the post.

Wide as in too high or too low?
And which ones?
Martina and Williams stood out tbh
Id say you've over valued a few
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 25, 2018, 07:04:27 PM
I wonder what Walsh's signings would go for now, just to see how much if a disaster it's been.
Lookman, DCL and Gueye probably make up a lot as they're likely to be worth much more than what we paid for them.
My estimates are probably well out and I've probably missed a few, but its an interesting debate.

Bolasie (when fit) - £15m?
Williams - £8m
Gueye - £25m?
DCL - £20m?
Schneiderlin - £20m
Lookman - £25m
Sig - £30m?
Keane - £20m
Pickford - £40m
Klaassen - £18m
Vlasic - £20m
Sandro - £15m
Martina - £8m
Rooney - n/a
Theo - £20m
Tosun - 15m?

Onyekuru - £10m (haven't got a clue)

Total - £309m




If you are trying to make the point I think you're trying to make, it's not working.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 25, 2018, 07:44:24 PM
Keanes pony isnít he?

Wouldnít mind seeing him next to a good cb rather than a procession of past it fellas who need to retire and total walking disasters like, but very unconvinced.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dunkster on February 25, 2018, 07:51:11 PM
I think only walcott and pickford look about right on that list. Waaaaay too optimistic on all the rest
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 25, 2018, 07:58:24 PM
If you are trying to make the point I think you're trying to make, it's not working.

No point really. Just from an economical point of view it's not like we've flushed £200m down the drain, mainly because of how the transfer market has blew up over the past 18 months.

We've also benefited from getting in a few young British players in before the market went daft.
Keane for example would still go for around £20m, even though he's been written off by many (I personally like Keane)

I do think Walsh should go though, and getting our money back should never be one of his main priorities. The players bought in haven't cut it, and most of them aren't worth what we paid.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 25, 2018, 08:12:44 PM
One point on the transfer window inflation - we must be the only bloody club in the country whoís players values have plummeted in the last 18 months. Every other fucker is worth £30m+ these days.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on February 25, 2018, 09:31:48 PM
Keanes pony isn't he?

Wouldn't mind seeing him next to a good cb rather than a procession of past it fellas who need to retire and total walking disasters like, but very unconvinced.
Agree; for that fee youíd want him to be Ďthe main blokeí but it looks like we can only hope he grows into the Ďbloke next to the main blokeí.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on February 25, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
Agree; for that fee youíd want him to be Ďthe main blokeí but it looks like we can only hope he grows into the Ďbloke next to the main blokeí.

If that!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on February 25, 2018, 10:19:39 PM
Not convinced by Keane at all but there's very small signs of improvement.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 25, 2018, 10:21:05 PM
Not convinced by Keane at all but there's very small signs of improvement.



Or were, until Sam threw him under the bus last night with his comments. For a lad with apparently fragile confidence probably not best to level a defeat at him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on February 25, 2018, 10:24:48 PM
Or were, until Sam threw him under the bus last night with his comments. For a lad with apparently fragile confidence probably not best to level a defeat at him.
But this is Sam's main m.o. it's everyone's fault but his ....is it any wonder our youngsters want away from his cancerous attitude.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shogun on February 25, 2018, 10:27:17 PM
Keane is alright until heís pulled out wide and then he gets burned for pace.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on February 25, 2018, 10:30:39 PM
Williams was hardly worth 8 mill when we bought him. We'd be lucky just to get him off the wage bill now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on February 25, 2018, 10:34:14 PM
I just don't think he's good enough really. He looked decent in a very tight, compact defence with two organised banks of four, but two tight banks of four aren't conducive to expansive football, as Burnley are showing.
If we have any desire to play a bit more open you need your centre halves to be mobile and have pace and ability get around the back line if your full backs push on. I just don't think he can do that and looks lost when he's left isolated. Obviously love him to come good but I've not seen much so far to suggest he's anything like the standard you want to build the spine of your team around.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 26, 2018, 03:42:40 AM
Martina and Williams stood out tbh
Id say you've over valued a few


Williams was hardly worth 8 mill when we bought him. We'd be lucky just to get him off the wage bill now.

Even if you knock Williams and Martina down to £0 and deduct everyone else's value by 30% the value is still £205m, bizzarely still a profit.