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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: mikey_blue on August 13, 2017, 01:02:42 AM

Title: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: mikey_blue on August 13, 2017, 01:02:42 AM
Didn't watch the game, So was hoping for some expert analytics from the forum. Lay it on me.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Silas on August 13, 2017, 01:09:59 AM
Pickford 8 - confident, composed particularly coming for the ball on crosses and pulled off a spectacular save

Baines 6 - isolated as per, defensively solid and tried to get forward

Jags 7 - solid throughout

Williams 7 - very good in the air I thought today

Keane 7 - generally strong and composed and trying to push out with the ball

Calvert Lewin 7 - great second half and lovely ball in first for the goal

Schneiderlin 6 - didn't think he was poor but he isn't where he should be in terms of tackling and distribution

Gueye 8 - largely superb particularly second half, tackling great and pushed forward well with incisive passing MOTM

Klassen 5 - he wasn't really in the game and I didn't understand what his position and role was supposed to be

Rooney 8 - excellent particularly second half and well taken goal. Intelligent passing really showed and his defensive work took the pressure off

Sandro 6 - energetic and worked hard but often little end product, confident better performances will come


Subs

Davies 7 - added instant energy

Martina 6 - I don't think he played badly, put in a couple of decent crosses

Mirallas 6 - took some pressure off on the break
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: BlueBeagle on August 13, 2017, 01:14:27 AM
Rooney 8 MOTM
Pickford 8
Gueye 8
Keane 7

The rest 6s.

Edit: I can't believe that after 5 years at that club, Mark Hughes best option to try and change a game is to put Peter Crouch on and twat it long ffs lolol

Pulis lives on.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: blargins on August 13, 2017, 01:19:09 AM
Pickford - 8 What more could he have done. Assured kicking, and a match winning save at the end.

DCL - 6 for the first half (peach of a cross for Rooney) and 7 second half. He is winning me over in his preferred position up front.
Baines 7 There's life in the old dog yet.
Jags - 6 Assured defending but I don't think he has the hang of this passing concept yet
Williams - 5 didn't really do a great deal, but I remember he made one good key tackle
Keane - 7 He will be a colossus for us. Even makes a tidy winger at times. His height is a massive plus.

Klaassen - 6 Needs a lot of time to settle. Didn't do much wrong, but dudn't do much
Morgan - 6 He's taking time getting up to speed. Not sure what's wrong with him atm, but he's class he'll get better.
Gana - 8 Great player, was everywhere. Should already be number one in the league tacking stats after that performance.

Rooney - 8 and MOTM for me. Scored a great header and the second half he ran the show.
Sandro - 6 Ran hard and worked hard, but like Klaassen, needs time to settle

Subs
Cuco - 4 He should be fourth choice rb behind Coleman, Holegate and Davies
Mirallas - 5 Had a couple of good runs, but the final ball missing
Davies - 7 Decent game and provided more energy than Klaassen
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Escla on August 13, 2017, 01:43:17 AM
Pickford - 8 What more could he have done. Assured kicking, and a match winning save at the end.

DCL - 6 for the first half (peach of a cross for Rooney) and 7 second half. He is winning me over in his preferred position up front.
Baines 7 There's life in the old dog yet.
Jags - 6 Assured defending but I don't think he has the hang of this passing concept yet
Williams - 5 didn't really do a great deal, but I remember he made one good key tackle
Keane - 7 He will be a colossus for us. Even makes a tidy winger at times. His height is a massive plus.

Klaassen - 6 Needs a lot of time to settle. Didn't do much wrong, but dudn't do much
Morgan - 6 He's taking time getting up to speed. Not sure what's wrong with him atm, but he's class he'll get better.
Gana - 8 Great player, was everywhere. Should already be number one in the league tacking stats after that performance.

Rooney - 8 and MOTM for me. Scored a great header and the second half he ran the show.
Sandro - 6 Ran hard and worked hard, but like Klaassen, needs time to settle

Subs
Cuco - 4 He should be fourth choice rb behind Coleman, Holegate and Davies
Mirallas - 5 Had a couple of good runs, but the final ball missing
Davies - 7 Decent game and provided more energy than Klaassen

Williams made numerous headed clearances under pressure, 4 for Cucu is just jumping on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: blargins on August 13, 2017, 01:49:26 AM
Williams made numerous headed clearances under pressure, 4 for Cucu is just jumping on the bandwagon.

I don't remember seeing much of Williams, but I may have missed a lot.

I'm not jumping on the Martina bandwagon. I thought he was extremely poor, save a couple of decent crosses. Put him up to a 5 then for those. One header he made back towards our box had me on the edge of my seat. Very dangerous thing to do. Not impressed by this signing but I'll give him time to settle.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Alanvideo on August 13, 2017, 01:53:00 AM
Just back from the game. Rooney ,Keane ,Pickford and Gueye get high marks . Sandro turned his ankle early on but battled on. Klaasen looked a bit weak to me ,needs time. Good effort from Tom Davies.The rest just average,.
.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Shogun on August 13, 2017, 01:56:21 AM
Pickford - 7 - Had one save to make and a brilliant one it was. I thought at times he was trying a bit hard with his passing and that didn't come off a few times but we've got a keeper (pun intended) here.

DCL - 7 - Well this match gave to us the answer to a question nobody thought needed to be asked, Is DCL a better RWB or striker? Did a decent job in the first half in terms of being constantly on the move and the assist for the goal but was definitely better when he moved up front.
Jagielka - 5 - Passing was truly abysmal today. Admittedly he didn't do too much wrong otherwise.
Williams - 6 - Nothing wrong.
Keane - 7 - Good debut from him, really solid defender.
Baines - 6 - Timid and isolated.

Schneiderlin - 5 - Needs to sort himself, been off-colour all pre/season.
Gana - 8 - Everywhere. Imagine we had a few who pressed like him. MOTM
Klaassen - 5 - Not the match for him.

Rooney - 8 - Didn't get much joy in the first half but very good goal. He controlled things in the second half.
Sandro - 6 - Good play in the build up for the goal and think he'll get better the more he plays. Would like to see him more involved.

Martina - 5 - Put in some decent crosses but he can't header a fucking ball.
Davies - 7 - Gets on the ball and brings us much more presence in the final third.
Mirallas - 6 - Meh

Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Jay on August 13, 2017, 02:00:48 AM
I was a bit dubious about Pickford, especially given the fee, but hands up, he did impress me a lot today
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Ross on August 13, 2017, 02:05:03 AM
Think people are really under estimating DCL second half performance at centre forward against two very good and powerfully centrebacks.

He caused them a lot of problems and was up for the fight all the way through and with a bit more composure he could maybe of got on the score sheet.

He's no wide player though and today really needs to be the end of that nonsense.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: MrWhite on August 13, 2017, 02:25:57 AM
Subs
Cuco - 4 He should be fourth choice rb behind Coleman, Holegate and Davies
Agree with all (especially Keane comments) but would give Cuco 5 for some good crosses. His defending was scary.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: hill135 on August 13, 2017, 02:26:23 AM
Pickford was boss again. I love him already
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: blueski on August 13, 2017, 02:28:14 AM
Have to agree 8+ for Pickford;

Love the way he commands his area on crosses and lets not kid ourselves with either of our two from last season there's a decent chance that ends up a 1-1 draw where everyone is slating the team and the manager for a weak home performance and everyone's getting 5's and 6's or worse
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 02:29:30 AM
Think people are really under estimating DCL second half performance at centre forward against two very good and powerfully centrebacks.

He caused them a lot of problems and was up for the fight all the way through and with a bit more composure he could maybe of got on the score sheet.

He's no wide player though and today really needs to be the end of that nonsense.

Wasn't physically bullied by Shawcross at all.

He's a target man and players usually come into their own at 25+.

Think he's got a decent chance of being a good player.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Ross on August 13, 2017, 02:44:58 AM
Wasn't physically bullied by Shawcross at all.

He's a target man and players usually come into their own at 25+.

Think he's got a decent chance of being a good player.

I've said before he's a brave lad and up for the hard work.

If he bulks up a stone or so of muscle he'll do well I think, but enough of this bollocks about playing him wide it's not his in his game.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Risky on August 13, 2017, 02:48:07 AM
Pickford 8 - commanding presence, did everything right and made a great save to preserve the win late on
Jagielka 7 - was good without being spectacular but read the game well and looked assured
Williams 7 - as per Jagielka really although excelled in the air especially
Keane 7 - again solid but not spectacular.  Think he's going to be a class player.
DCL 7 - struggled on the right but great cross for the goal.  2nd half he came in to his own and was really good.  I'm excited to see more of him up front.
Schneiderlin 5 - really thought he looked off the pace, as he has done in preseason.  Some really poor passing.  Sure he'll get back in to form though.
Gana 8 - classic performance from him today, especially 2nd half.  Buzzing around winning the ball and using it well consistently.  Some energy he's got.
Klaasen 5 - it's early days but I think at the moment he's struggling being on the same team as Rooney who plays in the same areas.  Again I'm sure he'll come good though once he finds his place in the team.
Baines 6 - was ok but wasn't involved much really.
Rooney 7 - much better and seemed more relaxed today somehow, wasn't snatching at stuff.  Lovely header for the goal, and was involved in everything.
Sandro 6 - showed some good movement and touches at time, but never really looked like scoring when he got in to decent positions.  Repeating myself here but again reckon he'll come good no problem.

Martina 6 - he's limited but he's got a decent cross on him.  Some silly errors though and I'd not like to see him play in a game where we're under pressure.
Davies 7 - I think when he came on we had our best spell of the game where really we should have put the game to bed.  Energetic and positive.
Mirallas 6 - did alright and did a job as an outlet towards the end when we were under the cosh
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Evertonian in NC on August 13, 2017, 02:56:20 AM
I've said before he's a brave lad and up for the hard work.

If he bulks up a stone or so of muscle he'll do well I think, but enough of this bollocks about playing him wide it's not his in his game.

well, he showed that he has excellent crossing ability in his locker, but other than that I agree.  He's not a wide option.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Evertonian in NC on August 13, 2017, 02:57:05 AM
Also, maybe I'm the only one, but I think Sandro clearly deserves a 7 today.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: gizzblue on August 13, 2017, 03:00:23 AM
Also, maybe I'm the only one, but I think Sandro clearly deserves a 7 today.
I'm still really excited by this guy ....think once he settles a bit he will be awesome.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 03:01:35 AM
I've said before he's a brave lad and up for the hard work.

If he bulks up a stone or so of muscle he'll do well I think, but enough of this bollocks about playing him wide it's not his in his game.

Well he's not a RWB.... ;)

Don't mind him as a wide forward in a 3 - think he's gets a raw deal as people still expect players out there to be out and out wingers - as I'd like to see him get minutes rather than be limited to the one position.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: bigac on August 13, 2017, 03:10:00 AM
Schneiderlin was very poor. Even McCarthy would be more effective. Really worried by his form.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Risky on August 13, 2017, 03:14:48 AM
I think he shoehorned DCL in as he felt he deserved to be in the starting XI but it couldn't be at the expense of Rooney or Sandro.  But Davies would have been a much better option in that right sided position that he is.

Tactically we then end up pinging the ball right hoping he'll win the ball out there but at present he seems to struggle holding it up out on the touchline.  When he wins the ball in the air there's no one close enough to capitalise.  He did put in a cracking cross though of course, but I reckon he mustn't enjoy playing in that position.

As mentioned a 4-3-3 with him in one of the wider roles would be ok.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 03:17:56 AM
Schneiderlin was very poor. Even McCarthy would be more effective. Really worried by his form.

It's only a few games though.

Looks like, as when he signed in Jan, that he's the type of player that needs games under his belt to get up to speed.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: blargins on August 13, 2017, 03:25:48 AM
Think people are really under estimating DCL second half performance at centre forward against two very good and powerfully centrebacks.

He caused them a lot of problems and was up for the fight all the way through and with a bit more composure he could maybe of got on the score sheet.

He's no wide player though and today really needs to be the end of that nonsense.

DCL is looking very good for sure, but only in the centre forward position, although his cross for Rooney was sweet. He has a ton of pace as well which we've been crying out for. I'm not certain we're all that pedestrian as some make out.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 03:31:20 AM
DCL is looking very good for sure, but only in the centre forward position, although his cross for Rooney was sweet. He has a ton of pace as well which we've been crying out for. I'm not certain we're all that pedestrian as some make out.

If passing/movement is slow then it makes everything stodgy.

Apart from occasions that are pretty rare where you need someone to just leg it, the speed of the ball is what makes the biggest difference.

That'll improve with cohesion.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: arteta4spain on August 13, 2017, 03:32:44 AM
DCL is looking very good for sure, but only in the centre forward position, although his cross for Rooney was sweet. He has a ton of pace as well which we've been crying out for. I'm not certain we're all that pedestrian as some make out.
Got a feeling about dcl and that he'll blossom into a really good player. With Rooney for suppport and mentoring he could be become really effective.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Ari on August 13, 2017, 03:33:04 AM
Pickford, Rooney, Gueye... 8
others less. I was a bit dissapointed with Baines and Schneiderlin but they will come through as will Klaassen and Sandro. 
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Bluedylan on August 13, 2017, 04:20:29 AM
Schneiderlin improved markedly with a back 4, I thought. He likes to drop in between the two CBs at times, but looked a bit lost positionally with 3 CBs.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Rhys on August 13, 2017, 04:39:44 AM
Wouldn't really want to rate players based on the first half performance because the shape, positions of some of the players was part of a horrendous decision by koeman. If you are going to play a system you can't just throw people in you have to play the players who will play the system best. Holgate is the best right centre back of a 3 we have, and someone like Davies would have been better as a right wing back even martina as average as he is at least the shape would have been better.

Keane and jags looked good together in that second half, I do think jags is still of a good level and better than Williams. Nice to have a centre half in Keane who wins a lot of headers.

Gueye was very good second half. Schenierdlin got better as the game went on.

Rooney was the best player on the pitch second half, controlled the game did what we needed at the right times.

Pickford was really good. Very confident in his decisions, backed himself and got them right today.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: TheRam on August 13, 2017, 04:41:46 AM
Schneiderlin improved markedly with a back 4, I thought. He likes to drop in between the two CBs at times, but looked a bit lost positionally with 3 CBs.

Good point that.

He seemed very reluctant to move the ball forward which is very rare.

Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: griff90 on August 13, 2017, 06:27:11 PM
Klassen does the same job Naismith did but without the goal threat. Davies lively when he came on, DCL needs to be playing up top. Better things to come, decent start.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: bogie on August 13, 2017, 06:55:22 PM
Think people are really under estimating DCL second half performance at centre forward against two very good and powerfully centrebacks.

He caused them a lot of problems and was up for the fight all the way through and with a bit more composure he could maybe of got on the score sheet.

He's no wide player though and today really needs to be the end of that nonsense.

he did very well all game 1st half was I think more to hold there left wingback back he never really came back Gana moved over more times than not even the goal kicks all 1st half were 50/50 going to DLC or Gana (free in the wingback spot) was this a game plan ? Erik Pieters is a good left back that likes to get up and down so him playing left wingback was to help them attack (you seen the dif in 2nd half )

anyways DLC for me did a great job that game all game but will be better in years to come (still needs game time but even when we do sign a tall CF soon)
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: pjk on August 13, 2017, 06:59:49 PM
Klaassens going to take a bit of time to adapt. The games much quicker here than in Holland. I would think out of all the new signings he's going to take the longest to settle in. Of all the outfield players I think it's likely he will be the best signing of the lot. Pickfords already saved us 2 points so he looks like the best investment that we've made this Summer. Yeah I know Pickfords supposed to make saves, it's his job, but it won't be the last time he does that for us.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: bogie on August 13, 2017, 07:01:38 PM
Sandro will be better V teams that play a high line with his pace

Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Mac934 on August 13, 2017, 07:09:37 PM
Hard first game. Guessed it would be difficult to break them down. Strange decision to play DCL as a wing back 1st half.

Pickford 8 commanded his area, decisive save late on.

Baines 6 went missing in 1st half, much better in back four.

Williams 7 not much wrong at all, some strong challenges and good headers.

Jags 7 does what Jags does, dependable, needs passing practise though.

Keane 7 1/2 excellent defending, and moved the ball well, even had a go as a winger.

Morgan 5 really not at his best at the minute, hopefully improves soon
Gana 8 MOM ran the midfield, was everywhere, didn't give Stoke any time on the ball.

Klaasen 5 looks lost, spent most of the time chasing shadows, maybe can't play with Rooney there at the moment.

DCL 7 must never, ever play as a wing back again, although he wasn't bad, but not his position, others should be there. 2nd half much better as straight CF. Cracker of a header. Not scared or Shawcross.

Rooney 8 deserved his goal and you could see how much it meant to him. Worked hard all game, some misplaced passes. He will be an asset.

Sandro 6 hard working with little to show for it. Will improve as he gets used to the team and premier league style.

Subs:

Davies 7 lights up the games with energy and sparkle, wakes up some of the others as well.

Martina 6 hot and cold, makes good runs and crosses well, passing and heading, err well!

Mirallas 6 couple of runs not much else

Koeman 6 bizarre choice of players in strange positions 1st half, fixed it 2nd half. Wish he could make correct choices from the beginning so we didn't have to waste subs etc.

Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Normm on August 13, 2017, 08:10:06 PM
Schneiderlin was very poor. Even McCarthy would be more effective. Really worried by his form.

I know most did not see his performance against Sevilla, but BESIC really impressed, if only for the last 15 minutes as a cameo. He looks stronger, proactive with intercepting, positive and ...actually passed the ball forward!

In spite of past injuries, he needs a game to prove himself.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Normm on August 13, 2017, 08:19:12 PM

Apart from occasions that are pretty rare where you need someone to just leg it, the speed of the ball is what makes the biggest difference.


All the top teams have players to make darting runs into open spaces behind the defence. Dom has shown he can do that, also Sandro. Likewise Lookman - he is really quick. I would like to see these three up front with Rooney just behind.

Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Normm on August 13, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Strange decision to play DCL as a wing back 1st half.

Koeman 6 bizarre choice of players in strange positions 1st half, fixed it 2nd half. Wish he could make correct choices from the beginning so we didn't have to waste subs etc.

I said more or less the same before and during the match! Lost karma over it, lol. The game was exactly as expected - a struggle from start to finish! If we are going to challenge for a top 4 position, we need to start playing with belief. All this sideways, backwards passing shows a lack of creativity. We had too much of that under Roberto. He must play Lookman, Davies and Kenny - and Dom more centre.

Besic also gets my vote - he looks stronger and quicker since his return. He could play lwb, easily, or sub for Baines.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Goaljira on August 13, 2017, 08:46:44 PM
Schneiderlin improved markedly with a back 4, I thought. He likes to drop in between the two CBs at times, but looked a bit lost positionally with 3 CBs.

I called this in the match thread.  As you say, we benefit from MS dropping in between the CBs and starting the play.  More often than not first half this was falling to Jagielka as the left CB and it killed us.

Stoke were happy for him to have the ball as he wasnt a threat, so kept their midfield 3 tight to our 3, completely taking away any options for Jagielka for the short ball.

It also nullified Klaassen as it took away one of the players from in front of him to link with.  He was having to drop deeper and then was isolated from Rooney and Sandro limiting the type of move that lead to our goal.  It was pretty much the first time we got DCL in a forward position, occupying the fullback, Sandro on the corner having to be covered by 2 of the CBs after he sent one for a taxi, Klaassen running to the near post taking the middle CB out of the area leaving Rooney with space in front of the right CB for a very good header.

If Gana continues to show improvement and involvemnt going forward, then teams are going to have to commit more to marking him freeing up more space for Klaassen and the forwards.

There's definite promise there, with Davies in reserve to replace tiring legs as and where needed.

The only issue is working out where a 50m Icelander fits in.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 13, 2017, 08:47:43 PM
Agree with all (especially Keane comments) but would give Cuco 5 for some good crosses. His defending was scary.
Funny thing is I believe he has told Kenny he is fourth choice
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Goaljira on August 13, 2017, 08:48:13 PM
I said more or less the same before and during the match! Lost karma over it, lol. The game was exactly as expected - a struggle from start to finish! If we are going to challenge for a top 4 position, we need to start playing with belief. All this sideways, backwards passing shows a lack of creativity. We had too much of that under Roberto. He must play Lookman, Davies and Kenny - and Dom more centre.

Besic also gets my vote - he looks stronger and quicker since his return. He could play lwb, easily, or sub for Baines.

We're not getting top 4.  Especially not playing all the kids you want, and definitely not playing Besic at the back.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Gash on August 13, 2017, 08:58:21 PM
I said more or less the same before and during the match! Lost karma over it, lol. The game was exactly as expected - a struggle from start to finish! If we are going to challenge for a top 4 position, we need to start playing with belief. All this sideways, backwards passing shows a lack of creativity. We had too much of that under Roberto. He must play Lookman, Davies and Kenny - and Dom more centre.

Besic also gets my vote - he looks stronger and quicker since his return. He could play lwb, easily, or sub for Baines.

You probably lost a lot of karma because you keep making the same mental shoit about playing Kenny, Besic, Davies and Lookman. Most of it based on a brief 15 minute showing in pre season.
Title: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 13, 2017, 09:19:52 PM
Really don't understand the shouts for Besic to be starting. He was very raw as it was, and that was before his long injury absence.

He's definitely a centre midfielder, his main competition is Gueye and Davies, and at a push Klassen. He can't play Schneiderlin's or Barry's role as he doesn't have the intelligence. He will be a peripheral player this season at most.

Edit: got side-tracked from my ratings, oops.

Pickford - 8 confident, great save.

Baines - 7 standard ageing Baines

Williams - 6 couple of mistakes

Jagielka - 7 would have been 8 but for a lot of misplaced passes

Keane - 8 excellent signing. Didn't realise how imposing he would be

DCL - 8 he looks like a winner

Schneiderlin - 7 first half formation nullified his qualities. Second half was back to normal

Klassen - 7 mainly for his effort, works very hard. He'll be a player when he finds his feet

Gueye - 8 probably a bit harsh to just give an 8, but that's testament to how consistently good he is. Absolute terrier.

Rooney - 9 MOTM he's a different type of player these days, deeper, but you can see his class on and off the ball. Miles ahead of Barkley in the 10 role. Tidy goal.

Sandro - 7 Nice play for the goal, worked hard. Stoke were too deep and compact for his strengths.

Subs:

Martina - 7 get off his back ffs, he's not THAT bad. Gave us a better balance when he came on, some decent crosses. We know he's a stopgap for Coleman, we're not gonna get a top quality experienced fullback to agree to come to us to be backup for Coleman. So we go for youth or an average experienced player. The transfer delegation went for the latter.

Davies - 7 nothing special, looks like he did exactly as he was instructed. Must be a manager's dream to have a lad like this. Always makes the right pass, which for a young player is rare. Combine him and Barkley and you have a superstar, but hopefully he will be in his own right.

Mirallas - 6 needed his pace. Distinctly average, like he is most of the time
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: EVERTON 66 on August 14, 2017, 02:31:57 AM
I know most did not see his performance against Sevilla, but BESIC really impressed, if only for the last 15 minutes as a cameo. He looks stronger, proactive with intercepting, positive and ...actually passed the ball forward!

In spite of past injuries, he needs a game to prove himself.
I like besic a lot but feel tom Davies is the man to wake our midfield up instead of schneiderlin.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 14, 2017, 02:36:31 AM
Pickford 8
Williams 6
Keane 7
Jagielka 6
Dcl 7
Baines 6
Schneiderlin 6
Gueye 7
Klaasen 5
Sandro 6
Rooney 8

Martina 5
Mirallas 6
Davies 6
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: EVERTON 66 on August 14, 2017, 02:37:09 AM
Funny thing is I believe he has told Kenny he is fourth choice
Kenny is my no2 should be playing great all round player with loads of energy.
I called this in the match thread.  As you say, we benefit from MS dropping in between the CBs and starting the play.  More often than not first half this was falling to Jagielka as the left CB and it killed us.

Stoke were happy for him to have the ball as he wasnt a threat, so kept their midfield 3 tight to our 3, completely taking away any options for Jagielka for the short ball.

It also nullified Klaassen as it took away one of the players from in front of him to link with.  He was having to drop deeper and then was isolated from Rooney and Sandro limiting the type of move that lead to our goal.  It was pretty much the first time we got DCL in a forward position, occupying the fullback, Sandro on the corner having to be covered by 2 of the CBs after he sent one for a taxi, Klaassen running to the near post taking the middle CB out of the area leaving Rooney with space in front of the right CB for a very good header.

If Gana continues to show improvement and involvemnt going forward, then teams are going to have to commit more to marking him freeing up more space for Klaassen and the forwards.

There's definite promise there, with Davies in reserve to replace tiring legs as and where needed.

The only issue is working out where a 50m Icelander fits in.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 14, 2017, 02:39:19 AM
Kenny is my no2 should be playing great all round player with loads of energy.
You nor I see him day in day out or pick the side tho

We have to accept koemans choices.

Im not gonna lie, I've seen the play about twice and he looks decent, the amount of he has to play quotes on here must mean loads of people have seen him play a lot lot more than me
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2017, 03:03:21 AM
I said more or less the same before and during the match! Lost karma over it, lol. The game was exactly as expected - a struggle from start to finish! If we are going to challenge for a top 4 position, we need to start playing with belief. All this sideways, backwards passing shows a lack of creativity. We had too much of that under Roberto. He must play Lookman, Davies and Kenny - and Dom more centre.

Besic also gets my vote - he looks stronger and quicker since his return. He could play lwb, easily, or sub for Baines.
You dont want DCL playing out of position as a wb but playing centrally yes?

But then you are advocating playing Besic out of position as a wb or lb?

You have confused me
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: BlueBeagle on August 14, 2017, 03:07:22 AM
Besic could play left wing back lolol lolol lolol

Besic can't even play his own position without being an utter liability.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Toddacelli on August 14, 2017, 03:30:16 AM
Besic could play left wing back lolol lolol lolol

Besic can't even play his own position without being an utter liability.


I'm a Besic fan but I 100% understand why you and others feel the way you do. I just have a hope about the raw talent that I've seen there and that it will translate into a decent player. With all the games we have this season it could be the season that one of us has to admit we're wrong.

I hope it's not you!

P.S.- Besic as a LWB - yeah - utterly ridiculous - I'm with you on that!   lolol
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on August 14, 2017, 04:16:35 AM
Probably 8s for Pickford, Gana and Rooney.
Rooney probably edges MOTM.

The rest were probably all 6s and 7s, other than Klaassen who had a stinker, I think he might just take a few games to adjust.

Not too sure about DCL tbh, can't seem to remember him offering that much other than winning the ball back near their box and then shooting at goal (instead of passing to Rooney).
Edit: (completely forgot he assisted the goal)

Overall for the first game of the season it was decent scrap.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: EVERTON 66 on August 14, 2017, 04:43:58 AM
You nor I see him day in day out or pick the side tho

We have to accept koemans choices.

Im not gonna lie, I've seen the play about twice and he looks decent, the amount of he has to play quotes on here must mean loads of people have seen him play a lot lot more than me
I watched the u20 world tournament in Korea in June n Kenny in my eyes was player of the tournament.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: EVERTON 66 on August 14, 2017, 04:48:02 AM
You dont want DCL playing out of position as a wb but playing centrally yes?

But then you are advocating playing Besic out of position as a wb or lb?

You have confused me
I'm of the belief that if you are good enough age doesn't matter in my eyes Kenny n lookman n Davies should all have a good chance of playing n wouldn't let the team down.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: EVERTON 66 on August 14, 2017, 04:49:40 AM

I'm a Besic fan but I 100% understand why you and others feel the way you do. I just have a hope about the raw talent that I've seen there and that it will translate into a decent player. With all the games we have this season it could be the season that one of us has to admit we're wrong.

I hope it's not you!

P.S.- Besic as a LWB - yeah - utterly ridiculous - I'm with you on that!   lolol
Besic to me can play 2 positions CB or CM.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2017, 05:43:59 AM
I'm of the belief that if you are good enough age doesn't matter in my eyes Kenny n lookman n Davies should all have a good chance of playing n wouldn't let the team down.

I agree.

Not sure how this relates to what you quoted though
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: pjk on August 14, 2017, 06:07:30 AM
Besic looked much improved as an all round player in pre season. Maybe he's not good enough for Everton? I think he's improved quite a bit. Maybe I'm not getting the money thing and we can ship them out and not worry about a squad.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: blargins on August 14, 2017, 06:13:58 AM
Getting Besic through a whole 90 minutes should be the first aim. Then we can try another 90 minutes and go from there.
Title: Re: Ratings Vs Stoke City
Post by: Ramjam on August 14, 2017, 07:28:25 AM
Spurs through in a young 20 year old right wing back Walker-Peters and he had a great game so I'm thinking that we should maybe give Kenny a go sooner rather than later and let's see if he can hold a place down. Pochettino  is doing a terrific job with his squad, might just be their year.