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Title: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Everton News on August 13, 2017, 12:36:04 AM
Koeman: We didn't play well

Everton boss Ronald Koeman says that his side is capable of much better than the performance which saw them beat Stoke 1-0 today.

Source: Koeman: We didn't play well (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2017/08/koeman-didnt-play-well/)
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on August 13, 2017, 01:00:28 AM
Can really see what the tactics are but I feel we have enough quality to get us through most games. Substance over style.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on August 13, 2017, 01:00:37 AM
Cant really see what the tactics are but I feel we have enough quality to get us through most games. Substance over style.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: kramer0 on August 13, 2017, 01:28:09 AM
I think the starting eleven was picked to neutralize Crouch and that the plan completely went to shit when he didn't start. Regardless of what he had in mind, I don't trust Koeman's tinkering and don't think he should be messing with the team to stop a 36 year old striker. We looked much better with a natural right back and Calvert-Lewin at centre forward. All of the evidence from preseason suggests that a 4-3-3 with a target man is our best tactic right now. Stop playing around with the shape and get the players on the same page in one system. Sandro/Klaassen/Rooney would work a lot better together if they had time to learn each other's movements within a well-defined set-up.

It's possible that our slowdown in the transfer market has messed with Koeman's plans but it's still disappointing that he keeps chopping and changing, the players and the system. At least we still have a solid defensive structure, bolstered by Pickford and Keane, to fall back on (as long as we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with cheap giveaways during build-ups).

I really hope we get the players he wants before the window closes.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Ross on August 13, 2017, 01:43:33 AM
He needs to address why we never seem to play well in the first half.

Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: gizzblue on August 13, 2017, 02:57:21 AM
He needs to address why we never seem to play well in the first half.
Three at the back is shite was the reason today ....but there are many different ones.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 03:07:11 AM
Three at the back is shite was the reason today ....but there are many different ones.

3 at the back isn't really the issue.

It's the players and their roles in it.

At least one of the wide CBs has to be comfortable as a full back or a midfielder as there is always space to move forward into. You can't just have 3 players in a line within the width of the penalty box.

You certainly can't do that if your RWB is a forward stood 30 yards further up than you'd naturally expect.

Nor then have a CM move over filling the space where the RCB should be moving into.

It was far too complicated for the personnel.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: gizzblue on August 13, 2017, 03:21:54 AM
3 at the back isn't really the issue.

It's the players and their roles in it.

At least one of the wide CBs has to be comfortable as a full back or a midfielder as there is always space to move forward into. You can't just have 3 players in a line within the width of the penalty box.

You certainly can't do that if your RWB is a forward stood 30 yards further up than you'd naturally expect.

Nor then have a CM move over filling the space where the RCB should be moving into.

It was far too complicated for the personnel.
Even RK thought it was the three at fault.. hence the four after half time ... but I see what your getting at ....he needs to chose a formation and stick to it  till the players are comfy.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 03:27:48 AM
Even RK thought it was the three at fault.. hence the four after half time ... but I see what your getting at ....he needs to chose a formation and stick to it  till the players are comfy.

Yes I just meant that there's nothing overly inherently wrong with 3 at the back.

Unless Holgate plays (or some mad gamble like playing Besic there) I don't think we've got the CBs to play it properly.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Cassius on August 13, 2017, 03:34:38 AM
Yes I just meant that there's nothing overly inherently wrong with 3 at the back.

Unless Holgate plays (or some mad gamble like playing Besic there) I don't think we've got the CBs to play it properly.

Or a right wing back until Coleman is back.

I also think 3 at the back nullifies Schneiderlin somewhat.

Either way I agree, I don't think we have the personnel to make it a successful formation for us.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: TheTone on August 13, 2017, 03:37:16 AM
no worries, 3 points and played poorly, always have a chance when you are solid/reliable at the back

Not so long ago we were leading 3-2 against these and fucked it away 4-3 under an inept manager
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: GLewis on August 13, 2017, 07:40:14 PM
no worries, 3 points and played poorly, always have a chance when you are solid/reliable at the back

Not so long ago we were leading 3-2 against these and fucked it away 4-3 under an inept manager

The 3 games so far are all the evidence that anyone should need to see why being solid fist and foremost is so important.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Bluedylan on August 13, 2017, 08:31:14 PM
Koeman rather magnanimously acknowledged that the first half was his fault, in the post match press-conference on the OS.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: oscar on August 13, 2017, 10:23:27 PM
He picked that starting line up because that is what we'll be playing in the next games against the top teams.
He's looking at defending and scoring on the break, problem is we've got no pace on the counter attack
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Lxxx on August 13, 2017, 10:27:35 PM
He picked that starting line up because that is what we'll be playing in the next games against the top teams.
He's looking at defending and scoring on the break, problem is we've got no pace on the counter attack

He tried that against Chelsea last season too. Didn't work out too well then.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: oscar on August 13, 2017, 11:36:41 PM
We've got players more suited to the system this year
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 13, 2017, 11:49:13 PM
He tried that against Chelsea last season too. Didn't work out too well then.

And against Spurs. Hope he fucks it off now, until we gel properly
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: GLewis on August 14, 2017, 12:29:33 AM
And against Spurs. Hope he fucks it off now, until we gel properly

We actually played well with a 3 at home to Spurs.

We played a 4 away but yes, we were rubbish then too.

Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: EVERTON 66 on August 14, 2017, 02:10:43 AM
Hopefully he will get his side sorted soon n fall on a system that works my suggestion:
              Pickford
Coleman  Keane jags Baines
        Gueye  Davies
Bolassie  Rooney  sigurdsson
          Welbeck.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 14, 2017, 02:23:40 AM
Hopefully he will get his side sorted soon n fall on a system that works my suggestion:
              Pickford
Coleman  Keane jags Baines
        Gueye  Davies
Bolassie  Rooney  sigurdsson
          Welbeck.
There's no way schneiderlin isn't playing or doesn't deserve to be playing
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: SANA_DR0 on August 14, 2017, 02:29:33 AM
wish we go back to 442 with 2 wingers,,, i miss those days... we have 2 decent wingers, 1 english winger who could become anything he wants too,  dcl and sandro up top, big man lil man situation, sandro will always drop off,, i guess that means no rooney, or switch them round..

i really like 3-5-2. always have done, cained cm/fm so many times with that formation, coleman and baines circa 2008 would have killed it, we cant play it now as baines does look very isolated, not sure if thats down to him or team tactics, or jags not having a left foot... either way, we look dreadful in that formation, especially when schneiderlin plays, id be happy to drop him atm, his backwards/sideways play... so many times he could have played a forward ball that may have put stoke under pressure, but he chose to spin round and play it backwards. really really hurt my head that did..lol

even 433, we dont have the right players to play that formation, we aren't mobile enough up top, we should be on paper it seems ( Sandro,DCL, Rooney) but i feel the reason for that is, having morgan in the team again, Gana is a starter always, so should be Davies, thats the industrious positions taken care of, that just leaves Klaassen to be the baller... which i know he can be, but he needs to drop back more so he can get on the ball, by the time he gets it, he's swarmed by the opposition.
When he gets used to hte speed of the Premiers league, he can move up the pitch more... if he could drop back to where Rooney or Schneiderlin pick up the ball, i think he would be great, even tho i think his best position for us will be the attacking midfielder role.


ideal team


                   Pickford
             Keane     Mori (yes mori!!!!)
Coleman                         Baines
            Davies    Gana
                Klaassen
    Rooney           Sandro
                   DCL

Title: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: ally2 on August 14, 2017, 02:33:59 AM
I really feel we suffer from not having good enough ball playing centre backs. Keane excepted. It would or midfield and full backs the confidence to push forward.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Normm on August 14, 2017, 02:36:47 AM
I think the starting eleven was picked to neutralize Crouch and that the plan completely went to shit when he didn't start. Regardless of what he had in mind, I don't trust Koeman's tinkering and don't think he should be messing with the team to stop a 36 year old striker.

It's possible that our slowdown in the transfer market has messed with Koeman's plans but it's still disappointing that he keeps chopping and changing, the players and the system. At least we still have a solid defensive structure, bolstered by Pickford and Keane, to fall back on (as long as we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with cheap giveaways during build-ups).


Let's face it, if Koeman's tactic was to baffle the opposition with his team starting 11 set-up, he succeeded. He baffled everyone!

I was even weighing the possibility that he was deliberately making Everton disjointed just to force through more transfers.  :bonk: However, he improved the situation with the subs. & Rooney, Keane, Pickford & big Dom (playing central!) & Gana (second half) did very well.

LOOKMAN & KENNY need to play. Rooney needs to play at 10. Upfront: Sandro Dom Lookman. IMHO - Though stating this sounds like  :Horse:
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 14, 2017, 02:40:44 AM



LOOKMAN & KENNY need to play. Rooney needs to play at 10. Upfront: Sandro Dom Lookman. IMHO - Though stating this sounds like  :Horse:
they don't

Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Redartin on August 14, 2017, 10:21:55 PM
Do I detect just a little bit of anti Koemanism creeping in?
 

Thought we should have been better on Saturday, purely due to the fact we have had a couple of competitive matches under our belt, whereas it was Stoke's first game.
We also had home advantage. Was expecting a 2 or 3 nil win. Small margins. Although five drab 1-0 wins would be nice in the next few matches.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Lazarou on August 14, 2017, 10:28:25 PM
Do I detect just a little bit of anti Koemanism creeping in?
 

Thought we should have been better on Saturday, purely due to the fact we have had a couple of competitive matches under our belt, whereas it was Stoke's first game.
We also had home advantage. Was expecting a 2 or 3 nil win. Small margins. Although five drab 1-0 wins would be nice in the next few matches.

Saturdays team was baffling in the first half. I don't really know what was going through his mind to select the formation with those players. So yes you could say I have one foot in the sceptical camp.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Bluedylan on August 14, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Do I detect just a little bit of anti Koemanism creeping in?

There's an uneasy coalition of reactionaries, purists and Martinez hardliners stepping up the Koeman criticism. Seems like a smallish minority to me.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 14, 2017, 10:32:37 PM
Saturdays team was baffling in the first half. I don't really know what was going through his mind to select the formation with those players. So yes you could say I have one foot in the sceptical camp.
A positive is that he changed it, admitted he was wrong and rectified it

I was surprised to see the starting line up and can only think the plan was to get dcl higher up the pitch and for Pickford to pick him out and then play around that
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: everton1952 on August 14, 2017, 10:44:15 PM
Few if any are anti-Koeman. Despite the goal just before half time, I tried to think what Moshiri was thinking watching that godawful display in the first half. It might have raised a germ of a doubt in his mind, but only a smidgen. It paralysed the crowd it was so bad, and then came a good goal and how everything changed after Koeman rectified his mistake.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Macca77 on August 14, 2017, 10:45:45 PM
Charlie Nicholas was doing our game on Soccer Saturday, he said it was pretty awful and the crowd were booing after 20 minutes
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: GLewis on August 14, 2017, 10:59:39 PM
Charlie Nicholas was doing our game on Soccer Saturday, he said it was pretty awful and the crowd were booing after 20 minutes

There was no booing at all.

Maybe that's because there was a vacuum but still...

;)
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Lxxx on August 14, 2017, 11:19:58 PM
Maybe he just tried something and it didn't come off. These things sometimes happen in football.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 14, 2017, 11:33:43 PM
No shit Sherlock . Best you start getting your much lauded ideas across then .
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: ally2 on August 15, 2017, 12:27:30 AM
There's an uneasy coalition of reactionaries, purists and Martinez hardliners stepping up the Koeman criticism. Seems like a smallish minority to me.

There's a collective noun for these
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 15, 2017, 12:46:42 AM
Do I detect just a little bit of anti Koemanism creeping in?
 

Thought we should have been better on Saturday, purely due to the fact we have had a couple of competitive matches under our belt, whereas it was Stoke's first game.
We also had home advantage. Was expecting a 2 or 3 nil win. Small margins. Although five drab 1-0 wins would be nice in the next few matches.

I think you just sense optimism turning into reality . Ultimately it is results that matter but everything I have seen so far this season has been pretty turgid stuff as were most of our first 45 mins last season .
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: MrWhite on August 15, 2017, 12:54:04 AM
I'll put up with questionable tactics and selections for a few games of poor overall performances, as long as the results are good. If we can get through the next few games without several losses (and hopefully a win or two) then it's time to start wondering about whether the team should have gelled. Two of the attackers were playing their first ever PL game, and the starters bought from other PL teams all played very well. The lack of a decent RB/RWB and Schneiderlin still being half asleep made it look a lot worse than it might have been, the RWB situation caused havoc in general. With DCL central and Gana no longer covering behind DCL it all looked much better. Coleman does solve that, but Koeman does need to find a better solution to missing Coleman until at least December. Perhaps getting the lads to do a Full Metal Jacket 'education' on Martina could help.  lolol
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: gizzblue on August 15, 2017, 02:28:48 AM
I like the fact he will change his tactics if they are poor ...like first half Saturday ..but his insistent on the three cb's is a problem. We saw the worst of this against the shite last year .
I like the guy all told think he can take us the right way.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Ramjam on August 15, 2017, 08:18:17 AM
I think Ronnie will do ok, he seems to get the best out of players and will bring them along and develop the younger ones, he had Southampton punching well above their weight and he will do the same here as he proved with Bobbys shambolic left overs last season, it's just going to take a wee bit of time, have faith
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on August 15, 2017, 10:17:42 PM
IMO the best thing about Koeman is he is not at our club to blow wind up anyone's bum.

Time will tell if that costing us Ross ends up to be a net benefit, I tend to think it will.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: toffee_scot on August 15, 2017, 10:27:51 PM
Next time he could maybe play Dominic-The-Striker as...a striker.
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Macca77 on August 15, 2017, 10:32:01 PM
City game will be a massive test, play like we did on Saturday and we will get a hiding
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Mac934 on August 15, 2017, 11:15:18 PM
A positive is that he changed it, admitted he was wrong and rectified it

I was surprised to see the starting line up and can only think the plan was to get dcl higher up the pitch and for Pickford to pick him out and then play around that
But it's not the first time his choice of players/tactics have been wrong in the beginning of a game is it! Yes, he changes it, but why can't he get it right from the start?
Title: Re: [News]Koeman: We didn't play well
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 15, 2017, 11:17:53 PM
But it's not the first time his choice of players/tactics have been wrong in the beginning of a game is it! Yes, he changes it, but why can't he get it right from the start?
People make mistakes