NSNO | Everton Forum

NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: blargins on April 16, 2018, 04:42:02 AM

Title: Apart from defeat
Post by: blargins on April 16, 2018, 04:42:02 AM
the scoreline I hate the most is 1-1 with our goal being an own goal.

Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 04:58:18 AM
the scoreline I hate the most is 1-1 with our goal being an own goal.



The grim thing is, I hate any scoreline in a match that is presided over by Sam Allardyce.

I was feeling the same about Koeman a couple of matches into the season, as well.

Itís inexplicable to me that now we finally have a rich owner, he installs two managers in succession that give Walter Smith a run for his money in the shit, joyless football stakes.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 16, 2018, 05:23:33 AM
The grim thing is, I hate any scoreline in a match that is presided over by Sam Allardyce.

I was feeling the same about Koeman a couple of matches into the season, as well.

Itís inexplicable to me that now we finally have a rich owner, he installs two managers in succession that give Walter Smith a run for his money in the shit, joyless football stakes.

Think you can add Martinez to the list too. Was painful watching the last 2 seasons under him as well.
3 inept managers that have cost us about 40m in payoffs
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: gizzblue on April 16, 2018, 05:28:38 AM
Think in reality we all feel a bit defeated by the whole monkey fucking a football shitshow  If a season , it's gonna take time for our board of knuckle draggers to get things right ....

But we are Everton and ever the optomists.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 06:18:09 AM
Think you can add Martinez to the list too. Was painful watching the last 2 seasons under him as well.
3 inept managers that have cost us about 40m in payoffs

Yes, without a doubt.

And it was a complete fallacy that we were good going forward under Martinez but leaky at the back.

We were slow, sideways, blunt, unfit, and painful to watch after the honeymoon was over.

Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: bluenuck on April 16, 2018, 01:18:48 PM
Yes, without a doubt.

And it was a complete fallacy that we were good going forward under Martinez but leaky at the back.

We were slow, sideways, blunt, unfit, and painful to watch after the honeymoon was over.

He was shit.

But that first season he was here was the last time any of us really felt anything, ya know? It was fun.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: dunkster on April 16, 2018, 01:52:16 PM
What will always stick in my mind was how much our football changed from moyes style to Martinez style in that first season. Just showed the influence a manager can have on the same players.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Mick 1995 on April 16, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
Hang on lads, nothing we have seen in the last 4 years has got anywhere near the days of Smith. To suggest otherwise at the end of criticism of the last few years borders on bathos territory.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Macca77 on April 16, 2018, 02:45:33 PM
Hang on lads, nothing we have seen in the last 4 years has got anywhere near the days of Smith. To suggest otherwise at the end of criticism of the last few years borders on bathos territory.

Still gives me nightmares
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 16, 2018, 03:22:53 PM
Short memories
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 03:34:10 PM
Hang on lads, nothing we have seen in the last 4 years has got anywhere near the days of Smith. To suggest otherwise at the end of criticism of the last few years borders on bathos territory.

Not the end result, but the lack of style and entertainment.

Under Koeman and Allardyce it has reminded of Smithís tactics but with better players and, luckily, in a much poorer league.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Mick 1995 on April 16, 2018, 03:48:15 PM
Not the end result, but the lack of style and entertainment.

Under Koeman and Allardyce it has reminded of Smithís tactics but with better players and, luckily, in a much poorer league.

I remember centre halfs in midfield and right-backs up front during the Smith days.
Literally a team of defenders.
But ones who could barely defend either.

I have zero problem with defensive football. It's 50% of the game and i hate it that people demand free-flowing football from every team.
As a club we have rarely strayed from the grizzled, determined, tough image. Henry's words recently (although defending his current boss) were right, most players have fucking hated coming to Goodison, not because they were outpassed and made to run around like fools. But because the team and the fans fucking fought like rabid dogs for everything.

And thats what pisses me off about the current regime. I can take giving a team 80% possession. I can deal with having 1 or 2 shots on target if they become the winning goals
I'd take Allardyces Bolton with our current funds to add better players to play the same roles.

But this fucking wettness across the park infuriates me.
But they were that soft under Smith. And they played worse football. And they utilised worse tactics.
But they weren't always worse players (Bilic, Collins, Matterazi, Dacourt, Barmby, Bakayoko were all very good players)
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: TheRam on April 16, 2018, 03:59:06 PM
Much of a muchness really.

The feeling towards the manager and squad of players is as bad as it ever was under Walter smith.

Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 04:00:38 PM
I remember centre halfs in midfield and right-backs up front during the Smith days.
Literally a team of defenders.
But ones who could barely defend either.

I have zero problem with defensive football. It's 50% of the game and i hate it that people demand free-flowing football from every team.
As a club we have rarely strayed from the grizzled, determined, tough image. Henry's words recently (although defending his current boss) were right, most players have fucking hated coming to Goodison, not because they were outpassed and made to run around like fools. But because the team and the fans fucking fought like rabid dogs for everything.

And thats what pisses me off about the current regime. I can take giving a team 80% possession. I can deal with having 1 or 2 shots on target if they become the winning goals
I'd take Allardyces Bolton with our current funds to add better players to play the same roles.

But this fucking wettness across the park infuriates me.
But they were that soft under Smith. And they played worse football. And they utilised worse tactics.
But they weren't always worse players (Bilic, Collins, Matterazi, Dacourt, Barmby, Bakayoko were all very good players)

Yes, it was truly grim.

Out of those players mentioned only Dacourt played well, though.

At least during the Koeman (this season) and Allardyce period weíve had Rooney, Gana, Coleman, Pickford, Sigurdsson, Walcott, and Tosun stepping up at various times and dragging us onwards.

And, like I said, fortunately the overall standard in the league has been incredibly poor this season.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Ross on April 16, 2018, 06:35:20 PM
Yes, without a doubt.

And it was a complete fallacy that we were good going forward under Martinez but leaky at the back.

We were slow, sideways, blunt, unfit, and painful to watch after the honeymoon was over.



Without turning this into another anti Martinez thread I think itís worth pointing out for balance that we scored about 170 league goals during his time here as manager. Bettered only by about 4/5 other clubs during that period Sam with infinitely more resources than us as well.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 06:38:50 PM
Without turning this into another anti Martinez thread I think itís worth pointing out for balance that we scored about 170 league goals during his time here as manager. Bettered only by about 4/5 other clubs during that period Sam with infinitely more resources than us as well.

Martinez was clearly better, particularly in that first season.

After a while, though, his unchanging philosophy was just terribly flawed, particularly in the high-octane EPL.

To play possession football, but without any pressing, particularly from the front, is suicide in this league if you donít have a really watertight central defence and midfield area (which we didnít)
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Ross on April 16, 2018, 06:51:05 PM
Martinez was clearly better, particularly in that first season.

After a while, though, his unchanging philosophy was just terribly flawed, particularly in the high-octane EPL.

To play possession football, but without any pressing, particularly from the front, is suicide in this league if you donít have a really watertight central defence and midfield area (which we didnít)

Think we only scored 2 less goals in his last season than what we did in his first.

When you think the players turned on him during those final 5/6 months itís not bad really.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 07:02:59 PM
Think we only scored 2 less goals in his last season than what we did in his first.

When you think the players turned on him during those final 5/6 months itís not bad really.

I guess some statistics can look positive, and others can look negative (like the home record, points total, and league position)

Much like Allardyce, though, it was the playing style and statistical efficiency that was found wanting (i.e. good chances created versus chances conceded)

It just wasnít sustainable for a club that wanted to be challenging for a regular place at the top table.

The fact that we had come close in his first season made it all the more frustrating, along with his investment and trust in youth and flair players, and forward thinking with the bedrooms at the changing ground, and overall lovely demeanor.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Bluenose 91 on April 16, 2018, 07:59:08 PM
We scored more goals in Koemans first season than in any of Martinez'

Martinez was shite.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: TheRam on April 16, 2018, 08:08:58 PM
I'm not having Martinez thrown in with the likes of Allardyce and Walter smith.

Come on ffs.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Bluedylan on April 16, 2018, 08:11:33 PM
Martinez's first season was the last time we all really believed though eh? Maybe initially under Koeman there was optimism. This Newcastle game on Monday is reminding me of the home game under Martinez when we had Lukaku and Barkley emerging (think we won 3-0) and there was so much to get behind.

Can't wait for us all to have someone and something to get behind again. I'm tired of avoiding all footballing content on TV and radio just so I don't have to hear about Allardyce.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 08:14:03 PM
I'm not having Martinez thrown in with the likes of Allardyce and Walter smith.

Come on ffs.

It was fucking tedious, porous football for those last two seasons, though, mate.

But yeah, not AS soul-sapping as those two, but it was pretty fucking dreadful; a lot of the dross under him was glossed over by the individualism of Lukaku, Barkley, and Coleman.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2018, 08:15:42 PM
Martinez's first season was the last time we all really believed though eh? Maybe initially under Koeman there was optimism. This Newcastle game on Monday is reminding me of the home game under Martinez when we had Lukaku and Barkley emerging (think we won 3-0) and there was so much to get behind.

Can't wait for us all to have someone and something to get behind again. I'm tired of avoiding all footballing content on TV and radio just so I don't have to hear about Allardyce.

We went 3-0, but think it ended 3-2... almost prophetic of how it became  ;D

But yeah, canít wait to get behind a Fonseca/Brands combo 👌🏼
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: gizzblue on April 16, 2018, 08:19:24 PM
Martinez's first season was the last time we all really believed though eh? Maybe initially under Koeman there was optimism. This Newcastle game on Monday is reminding me of the home game under Martinez when we had Lukaku and Barkley emerging (think we won 3-0) and there was so much to get behind.

Can't wait for us all to have someone and something to get behind again. I'm tired of avoiding all footballing content on TV and radio just so I don't have to hear about Allardyce.

Ross's best 45 mins ever ...then it all went south 😅.

Miss the butterflies before a game all I feel lately is dread.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: themilkycoffees on April 16, 2018, 08:47:24 PM
At least we actually looked like we might have a chance of winning something under Martinez. We got to two semi-finals even in that disastrous final season. RM had his flaws and was far too stubborn, but never been less enthused about Everton than I am now. I want something to get behind again. An idea, a dream, with a plan preferably.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Bluenose 91 on April 16, 2018, 08:55:13 PM
We were never even remotely close to winning anything under him.

Getting to the semi final of the domestic cups is not an achievement.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Evertonian in NC on April 16, 2018, 08:59:16 PM
Martinez, for all his faults, still got the Belgium job.

Koeman (who, in my view, was a slight bit worse than RM) for all his faults, still got the Netherlands job.

What job do you think fucking Allardyce will/could get?

The market is really the final arbiter of these things.  We were total marks for this fraud, and it's humiliating.  A Championship side would be in full fume about it.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Evertonian in NC on April 16, 2018, 09:00:29 PM
At least we actually looked like we might have a chance of winning something under Martinez. We got to two semi-finals even in that disastrous final season. RM had his flaws and was far too stubborn, but never been less enthused about Everton than I am now. I want something to get behind again. An idea, a dream, with a plan preferably.

yep, he was 80% of the way there.  He was just too damned stubborn in that last 20%, and it was the fatal flaw that brought it all crashing down.

Still gave us a great season to remember first.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: themilkycoffees on April 16, 2018, 10:17:32 PM
We were never even remotely close to winning anything under him.

Getting to the semi final of the domestic cups is not an achievement.

If you say so.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 16, 2018, 10:19:47 PM
We were never even remotely close to winning anything under him.

Getting to the semi final of the domestic cups is not an achievement.

It's not an achievement, but you can't say it's not close.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: themilkycoffees on April 16, 2018, 10:24:44 PM
It's definitely not an achievement but it's certainly close and as close as we've come in nearly a decade since the 2009 final. If Lukaku had his shooting boots on in the semi v United, then I'd have fancied us to beat Palace in the final.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: D15TIN on April 16, 2018, 11:51:05 PM
Hang on lads, nothing we have seen in the last 4 years has got anywhere near the days of Smith. To suggest otherwise at the end of criticism of the last few years borders on bathos territory.
I agree, but Smith had to work under peter Johnson, generally the last 3 managers have had a very talented squad

Those last 2 seasons under Martinez where the most frustrating, especially as we had 4 of the most exciting young players in the league at that time, baines & coleman in their primes etc, and Martinez insisted on playing slug football passing for passings sake
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Jamokachi on April 17, 2018, 04:32:31 AM
We were never even remotely close to winning anything under him.

Getting to the semi final of the domestic cups is not an achievement.

Whilst it's not an achievement, it's still closer to winning something than either of those that have followed have managed.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Ell Capitan on April 17, 2018, 04:47:19 AM
It's not an achievement, but you can't say it's not close.

We only played shit teams to get there though. Maybe one PL team if I remember right.

Martinez style was only ever good for beating teams that were considerably worse than us. Better teams would punish our many mistakes. Itís why he always had a relatively good record in cups compared to other managers, because we were less likely to fall victim to an upset result.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: BlueMaquis on April 17, 2018, 05:49:05 AM
Martinez, for all his faults, still got the Belgium job.

Koeman (who, in my view, was a slight bit worse than RM) for all his faults, still got the Netherlands job.

What job do you think fucking Allardyce will/could get?


Err... the England job?
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Bluenose 91 on April 17, 2018, 06:16:21 PM
Don't think you can really be ''close'' to winning something without being in the final tbh.

Also there was nothing to suggest to me that we'd have beat Palace in that final had we got past United.

Everyone was walloping us for fun at that point of the season.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Shogun on April 17, 2018, 06:28:08 PM
Don't think you can really be ''close'' to winning something without being in the final tbh.

Also there was nothing to suggest to me that we'd have beat Palace in that final had we got past United.

Everyone was walloping us for fun at that point of the season.

IIRC we were awful in that first half v United. I can remember Stones having a stormer in the second half and it seemed like the players had decided to ignore whatever Martinez was telling them.

Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Bluenose 91 on April 17, 2018, 06:30:10 PM
IIRC we were awful in that first half v United. I can remember Stones having a stormer in the second half and it seemed like the players had decided to ignore whatever Martinez was telling them.



Was on the ale from about 8am that day and all I can remember is Lukaku's pen being saved.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: TheRam on April 17, 2018, 06:31:20 PM
Didnt we have a proper mad defence out there?

I'm thinking Pennington centre half and Besic right back?
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: kramer0 on April 17, 2018, 06:32:51 PM
IIRC we were awful in that first half v United. I can remember Stones having a stormer in the second half and it seemed like the players had decided to ignore whatever Martinez was telling them.

I remember Gibson dropping back into defense and allowing Stones to charge forward. That was an entertaining half of football. Until the gut punch.

It was fun having players with another level to access.
Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: Shogun on April 17, 2018, 06:33:04 PM
Was on the ale from about 8am that day and all I can remember is Lukaku's pen being saved.

State of him that day

Title: Re: Apart from defeat
Post by: themilkycoffees on April 17, 2018, 07:20:40 PM
State of him that day


Could have had about 4 on his own. Can't believe we didn't win that game.