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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 11, 2017, 06:42:41 PM

Title: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 11, 2017, 06:42:41 PM
I think heís going to be world class.

Brilliant attitude and ability already.

Yes he makes mistakes but they will become less frequent
as he improves and matures.

Our best and most astute signing of the summer.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 11, 2017, 06:43:57 PM
I think heís going to be world class.

Brilliant attitude and ability already.

Yes he makes mistakes but they will become less frequent
as he improves and matures.

Our best and most astute signing of the summer.


Was apparently very good last night. Easily our best signing but it's really not much of a compliment
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: everton1952 on November 11, 2017, 06:56:38 PM
That ex RS twat Danny Murphy said Pickford did not have much to do and gave him a 6, the same mark as Gomez the RS late sub. Bias or what?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 11, 2017, 07:06:47 PM
Such a good shop stopper. Potential to be a colossus.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blue slug on November 11, 2017, 07:18:23 PM
Murphy is a fucking little cock sucker of the highest order if he thinks Pickford didnít have much to do, he was great
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Toffee1 on November 11, 2017, 07:23:06 PM
You have to feel sorry for Dany Murphy - being Gollum's twin must be hard.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: kramer0 on November 11, 2017, 07:33:19 PM
I don't rate him at all. Rushed off his line a couple of times.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Cassius on November 11, 2017, 07:40:10 PM
I like Pickford but I'm not 100% convinced.

He pushes his low saves back into danger areas too often, which he did again last night.

His distribution is superb but his counter attacking early kicks have often been over enthusiastic with play being lost and the pressure coming immediately back on to us. His face and body position after he does these are a joy to behold however.

I hope a lot of this will come with age and experience.

What you can't teach is his attitude, vocals, and confidence, which he's got in abundance.

Hopefully he'll be able to iron out his weaknesses and be our no 1 for years.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 11, 2017, 07:40:28 PM
That ex RS twat Danny Murphy said Pickford did not have much to do and gave him a 6, the same mark as Gomez the RS late sub. Bias or what?

Danny Murphy called us a small club on motd the other week, said be was only joking straight away, Lineker had a go at him

Attention seeking bellend Murphy, always has been, his commentary is awful, remember the redshites game against Exeter in the fa cup, scores level and Exeter get a corner in the last minute, Murphy says "not one Exeter player wants to score the winner here, why would they when they have a possible replay at Anfield "
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Major Clanger on November 11, 2017, 07:58:38 PM
Murphy is a fucking little cock sucker of the highest order if he thinks Pickford didnít have much to do, he was great

There's really no need to be this abusive.

Most people who suck cock, be they men or women, are very nice.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Rhys on November 11, 2017, 08:00:24 PM
That ex RS twat Danny Murphy said Pickford did not have much to do and gave him a 6, the same mark as Gomez the RS late sub. Bias or what?

To be fair Gomez came on after 30 minutes...

However when you make 2 1 one 1 saves with big strong hands (down to different sides as well) early on in the game it was a match winning performance. An average keeper doesnt save either and they are 2-0 down inside the first half and they likely lose the game. He caught everything he had a chance to, distribution was really good there was literally nothing more he could have done with his performance.

There are things he needs to work from what we've seen the big one is parrying less out and making sure it's away from danger zone as a must but no doubts he is already a really good keeper and at 23 plenty of time to become even better.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 11, 2017, 08:07:16 PM
I like Pickford but I'm not 100% convinced.

He pushes his low saves back into danger areas too often, which he did again last night.

His distribution is superb but his counter attacking early kicks have often been over enthusiastic with play being lost and the pressure coming immediately back on to us. His face and body position after he does these are a joy to behold however.

I hope a lot of this will come with age and experience.

What you can't teach is his attitude, vocals, and confidence, which he's got in abundance.

Hopefully he'll be able to iron out his weaknesses and be our no 1 for years.

I do think he has some clear weaknesses. He definitely pushes lots of things back into his box. The penalty against Watford was caused by this. He also is almost too keen in terms of distribution and coming off his line. Definitely got great potential though
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 11, 2017, 08:20:13 PM
He won't be hitting his prime for a good few years yet and with him costing £30m to start with there's only Man U that could realistically afford him now anyway. Arsenal will need a new keeper soon but they won't go as high as they'd need to do.

He's still young, his faults will be ironed out with maturity and experience. Don't forget this is the first season he has started as a No 1 keeper at this level, what he's doing now is still better than most of the league anyway.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 11, 2017, 08:20:57 PM
It's very hard to be a keeper on a team so woefully out of form.  Good on him for keeping his head up.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 11, 2017, 09:16:17 PM
Brilliant signing. Has huge self belief backed up by his talent.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 11, 2017, 09:28:38 PM
Needs a new left sided centre half and left back in front of him, along with Coleman back, to bring him onto the next level. Can't be easy to focus on your game when you're scrambling around and picking the ball out of your next at least once a game.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 11, 2017, 09:32:23 PM
Iíd put 50% of his judgment errors down to having shit players in front of him.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 11, 2017, 09:33:12 PM
Murphy is a fucking little cock sucker of the highest order

Itís good that he excels at something.......
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 12, 2017, 03:53:19 AM
Anyone else think he looks a little small to be a top class 'keeper?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Brownie20 on November 12, 2017, 04:00:23 AM
Anyone else think he looks a little small to be a top class 'keeper?

Or to be a storm trooper?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Grand Master C on November 12, 2017, 04:12:11 AM
Or to be a storm trooper?

And on the I am leaving this thread.

Boring conversation anyway.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 12, 2017, 04:13:01 AM
baller
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Gash on November 12, 2017, 04:14:40 AM
Anyone else think he looks a little small to be a top class 'keeper?

Didn't hinder Casillas.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 12, 2017, 04:19:28 AM
Big Nev was only 6ft, Pickford's the same.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Ross on November 12, 2017, 04:53:34 AM
Big New was only 6ft, Pickford's the same.

Yeah but back then Sharpy and Gray were considered ďtarget menĒ and both were barely six foot tall.

Pickford biggest weakness is his height clearly but it doesnít have to be a weakness if heís surrounded by good defenders.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 12, 2017, 05:10:10 AM
Yeah but back then Sharpy and Gray were considered ďtarget menĒ and both were barely six foot tall.

The modern game doesn't revolve around target men. In fact, the 90s had far more of that, when Nev was still playing. It's a non-issue.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: cantoffee on November 12, 2017, 05:10:11 AM
Yeah but back then Sharpy and Gray were considered "target menĒ and both were barely six foot tall.

Pickford biggest weakness is his height clearly but it doesn't have to be a weakness if he's surrounded by good defenders.
Pickford is definitely bigger than Loris who is one of the best in the league.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 12, 2017, 05:11:47 AM
Pickford is definitely bigger than Loris who is one of the best in the league.

Loris is about an inch taller apparently.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Shogun on November 12, 2017, 05:16:13 AM
Heís about 9/10s of Holgate
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MrWhite on November 12, 2017, 06:42:05 AM
Same height as Navas
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: hamshank33 on November 12, 2017, 06:54:21 AM
Same height as Navas
Jesus? Yes but to be fair the saves he makes........
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 12, 2017, 07:27:43 AM
Jesus? Yes but to be fair the saves he makes........

Heís no good on crosses though.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 12, 2017, 07:30:54 AM
Keylor Navas
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 12, 2017, 01:04:10 PM
Heís no good on crosses though.

Disagree, that's when he really comes to life
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Escla on November 12, 2017, 01:11:36 PM
Heís no good on crosses though.
Think you mean Robles mate.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 12, 2017, 02:37:33 PM
Big Nev was only 6ft, Pickford's the same.

6' is the absolute minimum for a 'keeper in the modern game. If you are any shorter you are unlikely to get through the door for a trial at a professional club.

Lloris, Given and Bartez were all smaller stature 'keepers and thus had a mobile, high energy style that at times was spectacular to watch but is not always the best way to relieve pressure.

Pickford, like those mentioned above, is an excellent shot stopper but he's got away with a lot of balls coming back off him into dangerous areas. The shorter 'keepers tend to play on the 'front foot' to try and limit space to the attacker and misjudgments in those situations can be costly.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 12, 2017, 02:41:25 PM
Keeper is one area I just donít worry about anymore.  Sorted.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 12, 2017, 03:59:15 PM
Disagree, that's when he really comes to life


Umm it was a Jesus joke.....
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 12, 2017, 03:59:49 PM

Umm it was a Jesus joke.....

Umm so was mine...
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 12, 2017, 04:02:32 PM
Umm so was mine...

Jesus came back to life in the cave though, not on the cross.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blargins on November 12, 2017, 04:15:34 PM
Indeed. Heís left for dead on crosses.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Escla on November 12, 2017, 04:18:32 PM
6' is the absolute minimum for a 'keeper in the modern game. If you are any shorter you are unlikely to get through the door for a trial at a professional club.

Lloris, Given and Bartez were all smaller stature 'keepers and thus had a mobile, high energy style that at times was spectacular to watch but is not always the best way to relieve pressure.

Pickford, like those mentioned above, is an excellent shot stopper but he's got away with a lot of balls coming back off him into dangerous areas. The shorter 'keepers tend to play on the 'front foot' to try and limit space to the attacker and misjudgments in those situations can be costly.

Good job he's 6'1" then :)
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Silas on November 12, 2017, 04:20:43 PM
Surely it's reach rather than height that matters anyway?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Escla on November 12, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
Surely it's reach rather than height that matters anyway?

Yes, you could have a 6'6" goalie with shorter arms than a 6'1" goalie, good point !
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 12, 2017, 04:36:16 PM
People are way, way too critical of keepers imo. They all make mistakes on the regular - Neuer, Buffon, the lot of them.

(I can't actually remember De Gea making any mistakes in recent seasons, in fairness but he's like a cheat, so he doesn't count).

Pickford's been absolutely superb. Even the pen he gave away last week, I don't class as a mistake. He had to throw everything on the line. It was a defensive mistake that cost the pen.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on November 12, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
People are way, way too critical of keepers imo. They all make mistakes on the regular - Neuer, Buffon, the lot of them.

(I can't actually remember De Gea making any mistakes in recent seasons, in fairness but he's like a cheat, so he doesn't count).

Pickford's been absolutely superb. Even the pen he gave away last week, I don't class as a mistake. He had to throw everything on the line. It was a defensive mistake that cost the pen.
Yes he has . I noticed on Citytalk they said a number of players made there debuts including Gomez no mention of Pickford. Is there anti Everton bias?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 12, 2017, 05:54:54 PM
Before he will ever be comfortable on crosses ,he has to trust his defence implicitly. ...and imho how can he when it changed every game ?.
He's class young and will only prove the doubters wrong .
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: ally2 on November 12, 2017, 06:24:16 PM
I think he's been a fantastic signing.  To think who we've had before him makes me shudder to think.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Silas on November 12, 2017, 07:02:18 PM
He's a great shot stopper every flaw he had I attribute to his age, the way he tries to play and the defence in front of him all of which can improve. He's the type of goalkeeper who would have thrived under Martinez style
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 12, 2017, 10:26:54 PM
We could do with a 6'2"+ defender coming in to play with Keane so his height isn't as noticeable when balls are flung into the box. Having said that he's looked quite comfortable so far commanding his area for a lad with so little top flight experience.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: wepull on November 13, 2017, 12:50:12 AM
He's a great shot stopper every flaw he had I attribute to his age, the way he tries to play and the defence in front of him all of which can improve. He's the type of goalkeeper who would have thrived under Martinez style
I haven't seen much of him passing the ball to our defenders most times like Loris or city's keeper does. He usually whacks it accurately to someone beyond the half line, I am not sure how good he's passing it short while under pressure by opposition's attackers.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 13, 2017, 06:29:55 AM
I don't think we should be going overboard of the back of 1 good england game.

Truth be told he's been pretty average for us so far admittedly behind an awful defensive unit although looked a lot better for england.

I'm reserving judgement until he starts making match winning saves for us.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Brownie20 on November 13, 2017, 06:35:27 AM
I don't think we should be going overboard of the back of 1 good england game.

Truth be told he's been pretty average for us so far admittedly behind an awful defensive unit although looked a lot better for england.

I'm reserving judgement until he starts making match winning saves for us.

Like the first game against Stoke you mean?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 13, 2017, 06:48:19 AM
Like the first game against Stoke you mean?
Let's call a spade a spade we are god knows how many games in and he's been very average so far....hence having to go back to the stoke game.

There's nowt wrong with backing players but he's not done enough to warrant the love so far in the same way dcl hadnt when people were saying he was our harry kane after the man city game. Of course I hope he does moving forward but dont feel we should rewrite history.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Brownie20 on November 13, 2017, 06:53:45 AM
Let's call a spade a spade we are god knows how many games in and he's been very average so far....hence having to go back to the stoke game.

There's nowt wrong with backing players but he's not done enough to warrant the love so far in the same way dcl hadnt when people were saying he was our harry kane after the man city game. Of course I hope he does moving forward but dont feel we should rewrite history.

Hey, I was just pointing out that he has done what you were asking for. Not rewriting history, being over the top or anything like that. I wouldn't say he's been average. He's been a definite improvement on our previous two incumbents. He's made mistakes but he's young for a goalkeeper and will hopefully improve even more.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 13, 2017, 07:17:32 AM
Best goalie in the league besides DeGea. Gonna be a worldie. Plays better with a central defense. Are you listening Moshiri, Bill, new manager etc etc etc. Aye.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 13, 2017, 01:58:33 PM
Best goalie in the league besides DeGea. Gonna be a worldie. Plays better with a central defense. Are you listening Moshiri, Bill, new manager etc etc etc. Aye.
Hes not even the 6th best in the league atm.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 13, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
Hey, I was just pointing out that he has done what you were asking for. Not rewriting history, being over the top or anything like that. I wouldn't say he's been average. He's been a definite improvement on our previous two incumbents. He's made mistakes but he's young for a goalkeeper and will hopefully improve even more.
Fair dos but we are 18 games into the season and having to go back to the stoke game...says it all for me and as of yet he hasn't looked like a 30m keeper for everton or a massive improvement on what we had.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
By far the best young keeper in the prem, 30 million was a bargain, right now id say only De Gea and Loris are better
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2017, 02:47:15 PM
Hes not even the 6th best in the league atm.

Go on then, i'll take the bait, name 5 better keepers than him.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 13, 2017, 03:39:46 PM
Go on then, i'll take the bait, name 5 better keepers than him.

I'd love to know too.

De Gea, Lloris and Courtois are the stand outs of the league. You'd possibly say Ederson at City?

The others are not obviously better or are worse. Cech is on the decline and Butland is probably going to be competing with Pickford long term for the England No 1 Jersey
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Brownie20 on November 13, 2017, 03:48:13 PM
Fair dos but we are 18 games into the season and having to go back to the stoke game...says it all for me and as of yet he hasn't looked like a 30m keeper for everton or a massive improvement on what we had.

TBF for Pickford to have made a save to win us the game the rest of the team have had to put him in that situation. Which they haven't done a lot of so he can't be blamed for that.The other one that springs to mind is the 1-on-1 with Defoe in the Bournemouth game. Turned the game that.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 13, 2017, 04:25:31 PM
TBF for Pickford to have made a save to win us the game the rest of the team have had to put him in that situation. Which they haven't done a lot of so he can't be blamed for that.The other one that springs to mind is the 1-on-1 with Defoe in the Bournemouth game. Turned the game that.

100% this. How can you have a go at him for not making any match winning saves when we've rarely been in a match winning position? Since the City game we've conceded the first goal of the game in 14 out of 16 games (I think). How is Pickford going to make a difference in tight games or save us points when there's games we've been absolutely battered in and others where we've already conceded and we having got the players up top to turn games around or get back into the games (bar the odd result here and there).

He kept us in the Arsenal game on his own until it went pear shaped, has made good saves in other games and was a pretty commanding figure in the City game. I can't recall a howler for any of the goals (I'd love get a look at expected saves and all them other stats and see where he ranks)

He also has a bit of bite about him, loved when he bollocked Rooney and gave Sanchez a bit of aggro. He's got that quality that I think most Evertonians love and comes across as hard working and passionate.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2017, 04:46:29 PM
I'd love to know too.

De Gea, Lloris and Courtois are the stand outs of the league. You'd possibly say Ederson at City?

The others are not obviously better or are worse. Cech is on the decline and Butland is probably going to be competing with Pickford long term for the England No 1 Jersey

He's already better than Courtois and Ederson
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 13, 2017, 04:50:49 PM
He's already better than Courtois and Ederson

I really like the look of Ederson. Courtois isn't living up to the hype, though he's still a top, top 'keeper.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 13, 2017, 04:50:55 PM
However good he is now, or not, he'll get better so it's about the only position on the pitch we don't need to worry about moving forwards.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: TheRam on November 13, 2017, 05:32:50 PM
He's already better than Courtois and Ederson

Come on now.

Let's calm down a tad.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: brap2 on November 13, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Arguably more question marks over him now than there was before weíd kicked a ball.

Very, very far down the list of issues tho.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2017, 05:57:22 PM
Come on now.

Let's calm down a tad.

I will not, he's the greatest goalkeeper in the entire universe
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 13, 2017, 06:22:18 PM
Arguably more question marks over him now than there was before weíd kicked a ball.

Very, very far down the list of issues tho.

Not havin that at all.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: brap2 on November 13, 2017, 06:27:52 PM
Not havin that at all.

Fair enough.

Personally Iím not into his mad rushing out, have any of them worked yet? Generally I love that in a keeper and itís how I play myself in goal but maybe heís just like bad at it? Maybe not. Question mark.

Same for the parrying into the 6 yard box, maybe heís had no choice, maybe itís by chance, maybe itís a pattern. Question mark.

In general Iím a fan and I like him as a player. A good signing and as I say, very low down in our list of issues!
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 13, 2017, 06:49:02 PM
Fair enough.

Personally Iím not into his mad rushing out, have any of them worked yet? Generally I love that in a keeper and itís how I play myself in goal but maybe heís just like bad at it? Maybe not. Question mark.

Same for the parrying into the 6 yard box, maybe heís had no choice, maybe itís by chance, maybe itís a pattern. Question mark.

In general Iím a fan and I like him as a player. A good signing and as I say, very low down in our list of issues!

I think the coming off his line quickly will be a big asset when we have a competent central defence who are confident at pushing up and leaving space in behind.

I take your point about parrying it back into the box, and maybe that is an area he could work on but again I feel like a lot of the initial saves are gilt-edged, point blank saves that he's done well to stop at all, and that will improve when we improve defensively and stop giving teams 5 1v1s per game.

Given what a mess we've been I think Pickford's been admirably good overall. I've said it before but we hyper-analyse keepers in a way we don't with outfield players.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: kramer0 on November 13, 2017, 06:51:50 PM
He didn't start the "mad rushing out" until the team started to get desperate. When things calm down again defensively, I think he'll stop doing it. If he's still doing it in a year or two... maybe we should be concerned.

This is easily one of the better pieces of business we did this summer. All of the raw tools are there and he seems to have a brain, as well. We should be looking into hiring a top goalkeeping coach to get the most out of our investment.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Trowel on November 13, 2017, 07:11:20 PM
I think Butland still has the edge, and is only a year older.

But... I don't spend anything like the same time analysing Butland in detail so I rarely see or hear of his minor errors.

Also it's difficult to quantify the cost of injuries, something which Butland is developing a nasty habit for.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: brap2 on November 13, 2017, 08:05:41 PM
Iím not concerned about any of this, but he has more question marks than he did at the start of the season.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 13, 2017, 08:25:26 PM
I think Butland still has the edge, and is only a year older.

But... I don't spend anything like the same time analysing Butland in detail so I rarely see or hear of his minor errors.

Also it's difficult to quantify the cost of injuries, something which Butland is developing a nasty habit for.

Had an absolute howler against Leicester last week and has let in other saveable goals. Same goes for Forster (who I know nobody has mentioned but I'll admit I was a fan of), he seems a bit slow to get down for low shots.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 13, 2017, 08:53:08 PM
Hes not even the 6th best in the league atm.

Names please.......
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 13, 2017, 09:12:58 PM
I think his distribution could be a massive asset when we do finally get some pace and presence up top. Imagine if Mignolet was firing the type of balls Pickford does at Mane and Salah. We should be trying to buy in a similar mould with a quarterback type goalkeeper in the team.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 14, 2017, 12:48:15 AM
Go on then, i'll take the bait, name 5 better keepers than him.
De Gea, lloris, coutois, butland, forster, ederson for starters. I'd argue from what I've seen SO FAR that gomes , cech, foster and maybe even a fit Heaton have shown as much if not more. I'm not saying he may not become a great keeper and I hope he does of course but in the prem league he's shown no more if as much as the 2nd list above....certainly no where near enough to challenge the first 5 yet.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: cantoffee on November 14, 2017, 12:51:53 AM
Forster? Absolutely turgid shite he is. Can't get down quick enough to save those little pea shots Pienaar used to roll to goalkeepers.

Butland might be, although jury's still out and he seems to struggle with injury problem.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: D15TIN on November 14, 2017, 12:51:53 AM
De Gea, lloris, coutois, butland, forster for starters. I'd argue from what I've seen SO FAR that gomes , cech, foster and maybe even a fit Heaton have shown as much if not more. I'm not saying he may not become a great keeper and I hope he does of course but in the prem league he's shown no more if as much as the 2nd list above....certainly no where near enough to challenge the first 5 yet.
Cechs been poor from what ive seen
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: sirblue57 on November 14, 2017, 01:13:25 AM
De Gea, lloris, coutois, butland, forster for starters. I'd argue from what I've seen SO FAR that gomes , cech, foster and maybe even a fit Heaton have shown as much if not more. I'm not saying he may not become a great keeper and I hope he does of course but in the prem league he's shown no more if as much as the 2nd list above....certainly no where near enough to challenge the first 5 yet.

first three, maybe, but have quality defence and outlet in front of them, think pickford would improve a lot with this as well.
butland and forster? nah, overall, we have a quality keeper, just another 10 players to sort now.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 14, 2017, 01:32:04 AM
first three, maybe, but have quality defence and outlet in front of them, think pickford would improve a lot with this as well.
butland and forster? nah, overall, we have a quality keeper, just another 10 players to sort now.
1st 3 maybe ? They are miles ahead !
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 14, 2017, 01:35:12 AM
Forster lolol
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: sirblue57 on November 14, 2017, 01:38:53 AM
1st 3 maybe ? They are miles ahead !
de Gea was iffy when he first came, and that was with a better all round team than we have,lloris has not been the most consistant keeper until recently,and courtois  is good, but if he had our fucking defence in front of him,I doubt he would be much better than Pickford, then again, would any of them?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 14, 2017, 01:44:20 AM
de Gea was iffy when he first came, and that was with a better all round team than we have,lloris has not been the most consistant keeper until recently,and courtois  is good, but if he had our fucking defence in front of him,I doubt he would be much better than Pickford, then again, would any of them?
Totally get your point and de gea is the best example of growing into a position.

However in de gea s first year it was his decision making that let him down along with cross handling....he was still making saves you would not expect. I'm yet to this from pickford and imo this is the difference between an average prem gk and a top notch one.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: TheRam on November 14, 2017, 01:55:36 AM
Forster is literally the worst keeper in the world.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 02:10:53 AM
I think Butland still has the edge, and is only a year older.

But... I don't spend anything like the same time analysing Butland in detail so I rarely see or hear of his minor errors.

Also it's difficult to quantify the cost of injuries, something which Butland is developing a nasty habit for.

Butland's form has been very patchy since he returned from that long injury lay-off he had.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 02:13:36 AM
Forster is literally the worst keeper in the world.

His form fell off a cliff ages ago. I was a fan when Southampton first got him.

One of their highest earners too, on something like 90k p/w.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: sirblue57 on November 14, 2017, 02:18:16 AM
Totally get your point and de gea is the best example of growing into a position.

However in de gea s first year it was his decision making that let him down along with cross handling....he was still making saves you would not expect. I'm yet to this from pickford and imo this is the difference between an average prem gk and a top notch one.

And he had a settled team and defence in front of him. Give Pickford a chance.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 14, 2017, 03:55:22 AM
And he had a settled team and defence in front of him. Give Pickford a chance.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Major Clanger on November 14, 2017, 04:54:27 AM
All we are saying...is give Picks a chance.

(yeah, I know, international week)
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 05:01:42 AM
How had this thread descended into people questioning his quality? Heís literally the best (and arguably the only) good thing associated with the playing side of this club at the moment.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: sirblue57 on November 14, 2017, 05:06:41 AM
How had this thread descended into people questioning his quality? Heís literally the best (and arguably the only) good thing associated with the playing side of this club at the moment.
Beni says hi
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 14, 2017, 05:09:01 AM
Beni says hi
Youth players are absolved of the shite they're trying to rescue.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 14, 2017, 05:35:34 AM
Youth players are absolved of the shite they're trying to rescue.
Why tho
If your in the first team, age shouldn't matter.
We've had posters galore on here saying play the kids they will do better, we can't now say play the kids, if we go down tho it's not their fault
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 14, 2017, 05:47:24 AM
Why tho
If your in the first team, age shouldn't matter.
We've had posters galore on here saying play the kids they will do better, we can't now say play the kids, if we go down tho it's not their fault
Because we have alleged seasoned pro's in each of the positions they are being asked to fill despite poor management and their own inexperience.
So imho ...they are being thrown in at the deep end and asked to do to much under a manager with as little experience as they have in the league ....so to blame them is irresponsible .
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 14, 2017, 05:50:53 AM
Because we have alleged seasoned pro's in each of the positions they are being asked to fill despite poor management and their own inexperience.
So imho ...they are being thrown in at the deep end and asked to do to much under a manager with as little experience as they have in the league ....so to blame them is irresponsible .
There's been plenty saying these young lads will do better than the seasoned pros. You can't have it both ways

The you isn't aimed at you directly BTW
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 14, 2017, 05:55:50 AM
There's been plenty saying these young lads will do better than the seasoned pros. You can't have it both ways

The you isn't aimed at you directly BTW
I know it's not aimed at me mate .
To be fair on the whole the youngsters have done great under the circumstances aside a couple of mistakes. ..but tbh I still don't think we will go down .
It would also be nice to see the veteran's... Jags Baines Rooney  etc of the team take some of the responsibility and rally the troops as it were .
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 14, 2017, 04:46:22 PM
The younger players number more than the experienced pros at the minute. Where we are is as much down to them as the older ones who are past it/under-performing. Not a blame game, just a fact.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MrWhite on November 15, 2017, 07:17:03 PM
The younger players number more than the experienced pros at the minute. Where we are is as much down to them as the older ones who are past it/under-performing. Not a blame game, just a fact.

Isn't that part of the problem though? The only old head who isn't fairly new and playing most games is Baines. It's well and good having lots of 'leaders' like Rooney but with them not settled themselves they can't be much of a guiding influence to the raft of interchanging youngsters. And when Williams kept starting, presumably as one of the 'wise old heads' and made a major fuck up nearly every game..

(https://i.imgur.com/gMCsxdX.gif)
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MrWhite on November 15, 2017, 07:19:55 PM
There's been plenty saying these young lads will do better than the seasoned pros. You can't have it both ways

The you isn't aimed at you directly BTW

Maybe you can be a bit easier on the youngsters though, it's not their fault that the seasoned pros failed to cut the mustard. Slate the pros, but maybe just tut-tut over the youngsters.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Rodenplav64 on November 16, 2017, 07:05:11 PM
Not questioning his potential more some of his performances . Settled defence helps every keeper I suppose but for me he makes some poor choices and players don't always overcome their instinct .
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 07:22:22 PM
1st 3 maybe ? They are miles ahead !

Yes, those first three are undoubtedly currently better keepers than Pickford.

However, when it comes to assessing how good our purchase is (accepting that he is only 23) it's important to look at his performance relative to the best keepers when they were new. Of those three, De Gea was pretty shaky to start with, before improving behind a good defence to become the best in the league. Lloris was all over the place, and in and out of the Spurs team for a fair while before stepping up a gear (his improvement which occurred at the same time as Spurs defence improved drastically). Courtois was outstanding in his first season, although he did come in from a brilliant season at a top team the year before, and into a dominant Chelsea team with a great defence. His second season he was at times terrible.

Now Jordan hasn't been perfect by any stretch. But he has made game changing saves. He has shown several characteristics that you cannot teach a keeper. Given his age, and the constant pressure he is under in our current team, he will be learning and should hopefully overcome his current deficiencies.

Ultimately the keeper isn't the position that wins us the game. The rest of the team has to get into a position. Where a brilliant save means 1-0 or 2-1 or 3-2. So far, in most games, we've been needing him to prevent us going several goals behind, and he's done fairly well as a one man defence, in the toughest league in the world, against some of the best teams in football. For a young lad new to a club with a shit defence, like.  ;D
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blue1948 on November 16, 2017, 09:21:33 PM
Because we have alleged seasoned pro's in each of the positions they are being asked to fill despite poor management and their own inexperience.
So imho ...they are being thrown in at the deep end and asked to do to much under a manager with as little experience as they have in the league ....so to blame them is irresponsible .
So on that basis we can't blame Unsy either really .It would be nice to leave them all alone .
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 16, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
So on that basis we can't blame Unsy either really .It would be nice to leave them all alone .
We can't blame him really ...but we can question his tactics, team selection (starts poor like RK did) etc .
But we cant really blame him for our position in the slightest .
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Toddacelli on November 18, 2017, 05:08:06 PM
I really like him.

He was a bit weird at the Leicester game though. I was right behind the goal and when he came out in the second half, he took his water bottle and squirted it all over a tv camera at the back of the net and when some woman shouted at him for it he just blew her a kiss. It was a little strange, but I think he could be quite a character.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 12:01:21 AM
Bit of a let down really is Mr Pickford.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 12:02:02 AM
Bit of a let down really is Mr Pickford.

He's a young kid. It depends what you were expecting.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 12:04:18 AM
Boss player, with a few little kinks to iron out in his game (as all players at his age do). Dread to think where we'd be without him.
The days of Joel, Stek and a declining Howard still bring me out in cold sweats when I think about them.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Silas on November 19, 2017, 12:08:27 AM
He's still learning while having an absolute shitter of a defence in front of him, he'll be sound
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Ross on November 19, 2017, 12:11:03 AM
Needs to pick and choose his moments to release a quick kick out better. It should have hit home today after the 3rd or 4th time he rushed it out after weíd been under pressure only for it to come straight back at us but it didnít it seemed. At one point Jags and Sigurdsson gave him a right bollocking for it yet he did it again minutes later.

Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 12:16:45 AM
He's doing his learning last season and this season and he's getting lots of practice thanks to shitty defences in front of him both seasons.

For a young kid, he's saved us a lot this season, and he is doing more than he normally should, so yes, he's going to make more mistakes. Pickford is way down the list of problems though.

I would say both our extreme players positionally wise (keeper and striker) are our smallest problems right now.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 12:20:29 AM
He's been responsible for a lot of dodgy moments. The save before the pen against Watford, the Arsenal equaliser, the late chance today all were pushed right back into the area

He's been bang average in a sea of absolute shit. He's made as many mistakes as Joel was making. Yes he's a young lad, yes he's playing in a shite team. Which are both fair in mitigation but people claiming he's the 2nd best keeper in the league

Also the best young keeper? Is that much of a contest? Which other young keepers are playing
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: TheRam on November 19, 2017, 12:21:32 AM
He's been responsible for a lot of dodgy moments. The save before the pen against Watford, the Arsenal equaliser, the late chance today all were pushed right back into the area

He's been bang average in a sea of absolute shit. He's made as many mistakes as Joel was making. Yes he's a young lad, yes he's playing in a shite team. Which are both fair in mitigation but people claiming he's the 2nd best keeper in the league

Also the best young keeper? Is that much of a contest? Which other young keepers are playing

Why can't you just say average like a normal human being?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 12:27:14 AM
He's been responsible for a lot of dodgy moments. The save before the pen against Watford, the Arsenal equaliser, the late chance today all were pushed right back into the area

He's been bang average in a sea of absolute shit. He's made as many mistakes as Joel was making. Yes he's a young lad, yes he's playing in a shite team. Which are both fair in mitigation but people claiming he's the 2nd best keeper in the league

Also the best young keeper? Is that much of a contest? Which other young keepers are playing

If De Gea had faced the number of point blank shots and 1v1s that Pickford had faced this season, you can 100% guarantee that he'd have parried shots out into the box. Your exacting standards are wildly unrealistic and preposterous.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 19, 2017, 12:27:54 AM
I really like him.
He needs to start parrying the ball away from the opposition players though, a few times this season he's pushed the ball right out to one of their players, today it led to their first goal.

It's obviously something that can be taught, so I'm not too concerned.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Silas on November 19, 2017, 12:29:31 AM
He's been responsible for a lot of dodgy moments. The save before the pen against Watford, the Arsenal equaliser, the late chance today all were pushed right back into the area

He's been bang average in a sea of absolute shit. He's made as many mistakes as Joel was making. Yes he's a young lad, yes he's playing in a shite team. Which are both fair in mitigation but people claiming he's the 2nd best keeper in the league

Also the best young keeper? Is that much of a contest? Which other young keepers are playing

It's testament to his ability that he's one of only a few young keepers playing week in week out. I think @TheRam (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1602) said that the way he plays he will sometimes cost us points. He's a goalkeeper who looks to play on the front foot and he's as interested in us getting forward quickly as keeping us solid. In a team performing better than we are he will look superb.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 19, 2017, 12:30:23 AM
Tim Howard was better
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 19, 2017, 12:31:15 AM
Tim Howard was better
So will Pickford be at 34 years old im quite sure. 😅😅.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 12:34:01 AM
I really like him.
He needs to start parrying the ball away from the opposition players though, a few times this years he's pushed the ball right out to one of their players, today it led to their first goal.

It's obviously something that can be taught, so I'm not too concerned.

What else could he have done there? Have you played as a keeper? They had a chance from inside the box at point blank range. At that stage it's literally just get something in the way of it, as a reaction save, not 'where can I parry this out to?'.

For them to have such an easy chance and then for no-one to react to the first ball was the issue. Pickford did well to get something in the way of it and was let down by the defence (again).
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 12:36:07 AM
Why can't you just say average like a normal human being?

What about if i exclaim it? Average!!!
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 12:38:07 AM
What else could he have done there? Have you played as a keeper? They had a chance from inside the box at point blank range. At that stage it's literally just get something in the way of it, as a reaction save, not 'where can I parry this out to?'.

For them to have such an easy chance and then for no-one to react to the first ball was the issue. Pickford did well to get something in the way of it and was let down by the defence (again).

Unless they are unbelievable saves then there's not much excuse for them to keep coming back into the danger area. Look he's a very good prospect but people are making out he's been brilliant. He hasn't. He's been okay
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 12:42:15 AM
He's a young kid. It depends what you were expecting.
A keeper who  doesn't parry as many shots as he does.would be a good start.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 19, 2017, 12:44:31 AM
What else could he have done there? Have you played as a keeper? They had a chance from inside the box at point blank range. At that stage it's literally just get something in the way of it, as a reaction save, not 'where can I parry this out to?'.

For them to have such an easy chance and then for no-one to react to the first ball was the issue. Pickford did well to get something in the way of it and was let down by the defence (again).

No I have never played as a keeper. Is that the criteria to pass an opinion on any player now? We have to have played at some level in that position?

It didn't look 'point blank', it looked between the 10 yard and 18 yard box, it was also side footed, not twatted at him. He actually dives to save the ball and palms it out, in complete control, it wasn't a reactionary save that was blasted at him. Top keepers learn to not only control the dive and save (which he did perfectly) but also where they push the ball out to (something he hasn't quite grasped yet).

Most would be disappointed if he didn't save that initial shot.

But as I said, I like him, and I think he'll get it right.


Edit:

https://twitter.com/SocceHighlight/status/931939203142832129
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 19, 2017, 12:45:26 AM
A keeper who  doesn't parry as many shots as he does.would be a good start.

Yeah like Thomas Myhre, solid him
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 12:46:17 AM
Yeah like Thomas Myhre, solid him
And what he got to do with it?
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Macca77 on November 19, 2017, 12:47:55 AM
And what he got to do with it?

Everything
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 12:50:50 AM
Everything
Explain why Pickford parrying shots,and being a bit of a let down has anything to do with Thomas Myhre please because I'm interested in the answer.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blueski on November 19, 2017, 12:54:30 AM
A keeper who  doesn't parry as many shots as he does.would be a good start.
in his defence, given the weather early in the game with a slick ball it probably is the percentage play a lot of times to punch the ball

got unlucky with the first IMO really just let down by the defence. the 2nd I do feel like maybe he could have done more for but made good saves down the stretch. by no means are either goal solely on him
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Trowel on November 19, 2017, 12:54:40 AM
Wish people would stop making definitive judgement based on the last 90 minutes.

Robert Mugabe hasn't killed anyone in the last 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Ross on November 19, 2017, 01:04:50 AM
Never played as a keeper but Iím certain Pickford wonít be happy with himself for that first goal.

Heís young, itís a learning curve, no player is infallible letís not pretend he is. 
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 01:06:16 AM
in his defence, given the weather early in the game with a slick ball it probably is the percentage play a lot of times to punch the ball

got unlucky with the first IMO really just let down by the defence. the 2nd I do feel like maybe he could have done more for but made good saves down the stretch. by no means are either goal solely on him
He has done it in a few games to be honest.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 02:57:07 AM
Wish people would stop making definitive judgement based on the last 90 minutes.

Robert Mugabe hasn't killed anyone in the last 90 minutes.
Wtf is that nonsense.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Martip on November 19, 2017, 03:06:58 AM
He really needs to learn to stop parrying the ball into the danger area....pretty much every game atm.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Confucius on November 19, 2017, 09:30:51 PM
Should be catching the ball for the first save. Was a mis hit powder puff shot
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 09:48:30 PM
 :Horse:
Should be catching the ball for the first save. Was a mis hit powder puff shot
He should have done better with the second as well.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 19, 2017, 11:13:36 PM
Should be catching the ball for the first save. Was a mis hit powder puff shot

Have you played as a keeper though!! ;)

Funny how quiet people go when they finally get round to watching the highlights.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: brap2 on November 19, 2017, 11:22:35 PM
depending on how much truck you give to XG etc. heís apparently been one of the worst keepers in the league so far.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on November 19, 2017, 11:30:48 PM
Yeah like Thomas Myhre, solid him
The legend of Bobby Mimms
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 11:31:23 PM
Hart just let one in that should have been saved just then.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: boothill on November 19, 2017, 11:34:18 PM
Hart just let one in that should have been saved just then.
His left side is a bad weakness to him
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: velimski on November 19, 2017, 11:35:04 PM
His left side is a bad weakness to him

So is his right..
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 11:40:30 PM
So is his right..

And his middle.
Title: Re: Jordan Pickford
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 11:51:16 PM
Have you played as a keeper though!! ;)

Funny how quiet people go when they finally get round to watching the highlights.

No fair enough. The shot wasn't hit as hard as I thought initially and he should've done better there.