January 21, 2018, 07:09:05 PM

Author Topic: Mason Holgate  (Read 6665 times)

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April 24, 2017, 09:59:56 PM
Reply #15
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brap2

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I like him as a player but he fact he's playing at the moment shows a weakness in our depth.

Hasn't got the attacking qualities we need at RB and regardless of his age it's just a fact.

I do think he's a tidy little player and he'll go on to be a really really good player but not at RB.
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April 24, 2017, 10:14:17 PM
Reply #16
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formerKHL


I think the comparison was specifically about the tendency to confront his opponent (but thankfully without the usual footballer antics) when he feels he was wronged, which they indeed do share.

But in all but temperament they are different.

apologies I meant comparisons against seamus in terms of style of play at right back.....

April 24, 2017, 10:16:20 PM
Reply #17
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Rhys


Not a RB, but an excellent back up for that position, I think he could be CB star of the future, better than John Stones in fact.

While I agree with the first 3 statements, the last I cant. I dont think he is near the level of potential Stones was at that age.

It felt like in his last 6-12 months with us people forgot how good a defender Stones was in that first 18 months. He may have had some slippy moments last season and some this year with City but you are talking about a 22 year old centre who has played about 150 top level games and 17 times for England. He was at 19 and still is now a potential world level centre half both as a defender and on the ball.

At 19 he was better in the air than Holgate, he was stronger than Holgate, he read a forward better than Holgate and his timing of a challenge in terms of when to go to ground, when to show someone down the line and when to see them out is better than Holgate. It isnt a criticism of Holgate, its just my view that Stones was a world level talent as a centre half and thats why City paid 50m for him after a bad season.

With Holgate he isnt good enough going forward at this point to be a world level right back. And right now he needs to strengthen, judge balls in better and compete with very physical forwards better than he does to become a top centre half. He has the potential to become really good, but I dont think he will be at the level Stones will be at when stones is 26-28. He has loads of good things going for him but he doesnt need the pressure of people expecting him to be better than Stones over the next 12-18 months because he is being judged against a huge talent there.


April 24, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Reply #18
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formerKHL


Holgate has always been compared to stones as they both came from the same academy/club...

People forget we bought stones as a right back..basically because that's what he was....the much maligned Martinez made him a centre half......we bought Holgate as a RB also....hence the comparisons...between the 2 as CB's...

The difference being stones adapted better than Holgate at CB...


April 24, 2017, 10:27:27 PM
Reply #19
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Ross


Interesting comments about his passing on Saturday.

His pass completion was pretty much the same as Baines but he played 40% more passes than Leighton did and it was also higher than Colemans seasonal average.

Also think it's a bit unfair to make comparisons between him and Coleman as attacking forces. Apart from Kyle Walker, Seamus is unrivalled as an attacking force from rightback in this league and Holgate is just easing his way through with little over a dozen top flight appearances behind him. Best let him get settled in before making snap judgments about his attacking ability.

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April 24, 2017, 11:01:06 PM
Reply #20
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BlueNoseMike


Holgate has always been compared to stones as they both came from the same academy/club...

People forget we bought stones as a right back..basically because that's what he was....the much maligned Martinez made him a centre half......we bought Holgate as a RB also....hence the comparisons...between the 2 as CB's...

The difference being stones adapted better than Holgate at CB...



We may or may not have bought Stones as a back up RB but I'm pretty sure he was always earmarked as a CB long term. He never really looked comfortable going forward as a RB. Solid yeah, but never a RB for me


April 24, 2017, 11:04:38 PM
Reply #21
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Goaljira

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He's done really well, but I'd like to use the last couple of games to give Kenny a run out too.
Cordiali saluti, motherfuckers.

April 24, 2017, 11:06:03 PM
Reply #22
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Cassius

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Holgate has always been compared to stones as they both came from the same academy/club...

People forget we bought stones as a right back..basically because that's what he was....the much maligned Martinez made him a centre half......we bought Holgate as a RB also....hence the comparisons...between the 2 as CB's...

The difference being stones adapted better than Holgate at CB...



Players of Stones and Holgate's age tend to start off in the first team as full backs - I believe CB was earmarked as their long-term position. Stones moving to CB so young is highly unusual.

Having said that Gary Neville started as a CB and was blooded as a RB and ended up staying there, so who knows what the future will hold.

For me, I'm a big fan of Mason, but he needs time to develop.

April 24, 2017, 11:20:33 PM
Reply #23
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MmmBlueRamirez


For me it's obvious that Holgate is not a right back in the making. He's clearly going to be an accomplished ball playing centre back. It's actually convenient that he can get his top level game time/experience at right back where he can a bit less of a liability and get away with more mistakes whilst he learns.

I don't think he'll be in the same class as Stones but close.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 11:23:41 PM by MmmBlueToffee »
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April 24, 2017, 11:28:33 PM
Reply #24
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Rhys


Interesting comments about his passing on Saturday.

His pass completion was pretty much the same as Baines but he played 40% more passes than Leighton did and it was also higher than Colemans seasonal average.


But thats where a stat can be misleading at face value. I dont know I've not checked, but I'd guess that Holgate played a lot more short backwards passes to centre halves than baines did on Saturday and Coleman does generally. Baines will try passes into forwards feet for instance that are about 30-40 yard passes, which is harder to complete than giving it to Gueye or Jags inside.

He is a good passer for a centre half Holgate, played 2 lovely balls to Baines from the half way line so his passing isnt something I'm worried with if he becomes a centre half. My concern with him is if he is going to play at full back, you look at full backs at the top end of clubs and they move forward well with the ball. Rose/Davies and Walker/Trippier all can take it forward comfortably, Alonso and Moses for Chelsea as wing backs, Valencia at United, Bellerin Arsenal, Clyne for Liverpool (although I dont think he has much productivity once he is there), Baines and Coleman for us. Its harsh to compare to Baines or Coleman from a productivity in the final third perspective because they have been top level full backs in all senses and Baines has created a huge number of goals for a full back and Coleman scored more regularly than most full backs, but I think the importance of being able to drive a team back from that position if there is space to do that is huge. He didnt do it at all first half, he did it more in the second half so Koeman must have told him to and I think that would be the thing to point out about his performance on Saturday rather than the quality of his passing or pass completion rates.

April 24, 2017, 11:35:01 PM
Reply #25
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formerKHL


We may or may not have bought Stones as a back up RB but I'm pretty sure he was always earmarked as a CB long term. He never really looked comfortable going forward as a RB. Solid yeah, but never a RB for me

And yet it was his ability to get forward at right back that got him noticed and put him on the radar of bigger clubs...there was a few clubs looking at stones well before we started looking at him....whilst he was playing at right back....he played very few games for Barnsley at CB....

Holgate career path is along very similar lines coincidently to stones'

April 24, 2017, 11:42:57 PM
Reply #26
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formerKHL


For me it's obvious that Holgate is not a right back in the making. He's clearly going to be an accomplished ball playing centre back. It's actually convenient that he can get his top level game time/experience at right back where he can a bit less of a liability and get away with more mistakes whilst he learns.

I don't think he'll be in the same class as Stones but close.

That's the point though he isn't a RB in the making.... he IS a RB...he is however a CB in the making if he chooses to be..I've always fancied him to be good centre half as  he has the ability, temperament, skill level, pace and recovery rate,  composure and reads the game fairly well...a lot to learn but so has stones...

April 24, 2017, 11:54:45 PM
Reply #27
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smellybum


I would love to see him go on loan to a championship club for the first half of next season. Go and learn his trade as a cb, in a demanding league. He needs game time in that position. More than likely he won't get that with us if we play a back 4. So send him out and see. Wonder if we can send him and Galloway to the same team, strike up a partnership.  :D

April 25, 2017, 12:09:27 AM
Reply #28
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BlueForYou


Like him and would like him even more alongside VVD

Could also play in a holding midfield role
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April 25, 2017, 12:11:56 AM
Reply #29
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blueToffee

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Think he makes a better makeshift RB than Stones did.