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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: blargins on November 12, 2017, 09:30:31 PM

Title: Martina
Post by: blargins on November 12, 2017, 09:30:31 PM
Haven't heard a thing about him since that injury v Lyon.

Is he ok?
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 12, 2017, 09:36:28 PM
he flew back with them so he is fine i assume.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Lxxx on November 12, 2017, 10:22:26 PM
Haven't heard a thing about him since that injury v Lyon.

Is he ok?

I think he's still shite.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: gizzblue on November 12, 2017, 10:58:38 PM
I think he's still shite.
He'd have to improve imensely to be shite.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Simon Paul on November 12, 2017, 11:04:20 PM
he was fine, flew back with the squad but as with most players who are knocked out, they need a few weeks out to recover
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: montanatoffeefan on November 13, 2017, 12:51:05 AM
he was fine, flew back with the squad but as with most players who are knocked out, they need a few weeks out to recover

Think it takes at least a few years or maybe even a few lifetimes to recover from being that shite.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Ridge on November 13, 2017, 01:21:09 AM
I like Cuco, while he's not the worlds greatest right back, he's a decent full back and was cheap. He's athletic enough to make us look at Baines as if he's a weak link, while also complaining that he finds himself in better positions and isn't able to create more. He's not our best player, but he's a good squad player, and if he's playing, it's because we don't have better options.

I think Martinez toxic departure was part of the reason so many were keen to label Niasse as a joke. And I hope we don't go that way with Schneiderlin, Cuco and others deemed as Koeman players.

We'll have Coleman back in not too distant future, but until then we have what we have. Cuco seems a quiet, shy, but ultimately decent chap and hard working player.

I do think there is more to come from him as he settles. He's no Dani Alves, but if Kyle Walker is worth £50m, Cuco was a bargain.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Shogun on November 13, 2017, 01:44:50 AM
No chance Ridge, he's absolutely horrendous and wouldn't start in a single other Premier League side.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2017, 02:00:04 AM
Don't rush him back to soon, its for the best
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Ridge on November 13, 2017, 02:31:06 AM
No chance Ridge, he's absolutely horrendous and wouldn't start in a single other Premier League side.

You being sarcastic?

 :Howard:
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Paddockoldie on November 13, 2017, 03:01:39 AM
he was fine, flew back with the squad but as with most players who are knocked out, they need a few weeks out to recover

That's the whole team fucked for the next few weeks.. thank God it was an international break eh?
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Tony Clifton on November 13, 2017, 03:34:53 AM
Should've dropped him off at Southampton, and told him it was all a dream.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: kramer0 on November 13, 2017, 08:02:04 AM
Iíd live with this if it was a one year deal. But three years? Get out. Everyone who signed off on that should be sacked.

Sure, heís quick and can drill a first-time cross but his defending isnít even Championship standard. He genuinely has no clue where to stand without the ball. Kenny looks like a seasoned pro in comparison.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Ridge on November 13, 2017, 08:11:57 AM
Iíd live with this if it was a one year deal. But three years? Get out. Everyone who signed off on that should be sacked.

Sure, heís quick and can drill a first-time cross but his defending isnít even Championship standard. He genuinely has no clue where to stand without the ball. Kenny looks like a seasoned pro in comparison.

I like Kenny, but he's made far more mistakes from less chances. He was a risk Koeman didn't want to take, and killed the game against Leicester.

Why does everyone have to be sacked because we signed a squad player on a free?  lolol
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: kramer0 on November 13, 2017, 08:29:01 AM
I like Kenny, but he's made far more mistakes from less chances. He was a risk Koeman didn't want to take, and killed the game against Leicester.

Why does everyone have to be sacked because we signed a squad player on a free?  lolol

More mistakes from fewer chances? Martina is never around to make "mistakes" because he's 20 yards out of position.

And yes, it's a genuine problem to waste those two extra years worth of wages on a nothing player. Fees aren't the only thing that cost the club money.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Ridge on November 13, 2017, 08:42:43 AM
More mistakes from fewer chances? Martina is never around to make "mistakes" because he's 20 yards out of position.

And yes, it's a genuine problem to waste those two extra years worth of wages on a nothing player. Fees aren't the only thing that cost the club money.

I'm not trying to dig out Kenny, he's a young lad, but he's a higher risk than Cuco and he's shown that quite clearly on the few chances he's played.

If we spunked £10m on Cuco I'd understand it more, but then I think everyone might give him more than a dozen games in a shit team, to know where everyone else is and how he'll get on.

I think plenty of fans will always see half a team of whipping boys whatever team they look at.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: kramer0 on November 13, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
I'm not trying to dig out Kenny, he's a young lad, but he's a higher risk than Cuco and he's shown that quite clearly on the few chances he's played.

If we spunked £10m on Cuco I'd understand it more, but then I think everyone might give him more than a dozen games in a shit team, to know where everyone else is and how he'll get on.

I think plenty of fans will always see half a team of whipping boys whatever team they look at.

Agree to disagree then.

To me, Martina will always be the bigger risk because he canít be counted on to be where heís supposed to be. His clueless wandering leaves us exposed. Watch Bournemouthís goal again. Holgate is trying to cover two positions because Martina got caught way too far up the pitch. Thatís a basic mistake that an ďexperiencedĒ right back canít be making, the sort of mistake that will absolutely kill us over the course of a season.

Kenny was where he needed to be and scuffed a clearance. It happens. Itís unlikely to happen again.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Ridge on November 13, 2017, 09:29:18 AM
Agree to disagree then.

To me, Martina will always be the bigger risk because he canít be counted on to be where heís supposed to be. His clueless wandering leaves us exposed. Watch Bournemouthís goal again. Holgate is trying to cover two positions because Martina got caught way too far up the pitch. Thatís a basic mistake that an ďexperiencedĒ right back canít be making, the sort of mistake that will absolutely kill us over the course of a season.

Kenny was where he needed to be and scuffed a clearance. It happens. Itís unlikely to happen again.

Fair enough guv, just think you have very different expectations and standards for them.

Any other new player in team struggling would have similar issues knowing what others are doing or what to expect. We've been a shambles, and that's not Martina's fault. Centre backs have to cover full backs who push forward and connect play. Sometimes they'll get caught out, if he sat like Hibbert everyone would complain how little he offers going forward, like with Baines.

Kenny will offer more going forward eventually, but his pass completion is 15% below Cuco at moment and he's just as, if not more likely to get caught out to me. If Cuco had shanked the cross, you'd be saying it was proof that he's not cut out for it, as when he is in the right place, he still fucks it up.

I don't think right back is anywhere near our main problem. With Europa fixtures, Cuco and Kenny make a decent team to cover right back duties until Coleman's back. Youngsters need some cover and support, as otherwise they can develop bad habits or struggle with  burden of responsibility. This way Kenny can come on later in games and have more of a go, or when opponents are less ambitious.

With Coleman out for a while and needing time to get back to his level, Kenny looking a decent player but with time needed to learn and adapt, we needed cover and Cuco on a free was probably one of the more sensible bits of business.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
I'd be extremely happy if he never played for us again, the man is a liability, sad to say but its true, he would look out of place in the Championship.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Escla on November 13, 2017, 03:12:46 PM
Fair enough guv, just think you have very different expectations and standards for them.

Any other new player in team struggling would have similar issues knowing what others are doing or what to expect. We've been a shambles, and that's not Martina's fault. Centre backs have to cover full backs who push forward and connect play. Sometimes they'll get caught out, if he sat like Hibbert everyone would complain how little he offers going forward, like with Baines.

Kenny will offer more going forward eventually, but his pass completion is 15% below Cuco at moment and he's just as, if not more likely to get caught out to me. If Cuco had shanked the cross, you'd be saying it was proof that he's not cut out for it, as when he is in the right place, he still fucks it up.

I don't think right back is anywhere near our main problem. With Europa fixtures, Cuco and Kenny make a decent team to cover right back duties until Coleman's back. Youngsters need some cover and support, as otherwise they can develop bad habits or struggle with  burden of responsibility. This way Kenny can come on later in games and have more of a go, or when opponents are less ambitious.

With Coleman out for a while and needing time to get back to his level, Kenny looking a decent player but with time needed to learn and adapt, we needed cover and Cuco on a free was probably one of the more sensible bits of business.

"Local lads" can be ten times shittier than Martina is perceived to be but will always be cut more slack than a player that has been brought in by a now departed manager.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 13, 2017, 03:51:18 PM
Was always a difficult one with signing a RB. With Coleman being one of the best in the prem and us not having a bottomless pit of funds despite Moshiri taking over, Martina seemed to be a sensible option for the short term. Obviously he's not been that good like but I can see why he was signed.

Why waste 7 or 8 million on a RB when at that price they're going to be pretty standard, when that money can go towards an elite level striker. Oh wait  :bonk:
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Lxxx on November 13, 2017, 04:19:51 PM
I understand why we signed him. Holgate and Kenny are not the only two options you want at right back going into a long Premier League season. Like Kramer said though, I don't understand a 3 year deal for a lad who was sat at home on his ass doing nothing. He's very poor defensively, at a push he might have a decent stab at wing back where he can gallop up and down the touchline and have someone covering his ass but ideally you wouldn't want someone of his limited quality at your club.
Kenny started off like the kid that he is but he's starting to find his feet a little. I'd much rather take a mistake from an inexperienced lad who is learning than a mistake from an experienced player who really should know better. 
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Waltzer on November 13, 2017, 04:26:29 PM
I understand why we signed him. Holgate and Kenny are not the only two options you want at right back going into a long Premier League season. Like Kramer said though, I don't understand a 3 year deal for a lad who was sat at home on his ass doing nothing. He's very poor defensively, at a push he might have a decent stab at wing back where he can gallop up and down the touchline and have someone covering his ass but ideally you wouldn't want someone of his limited quality at your club.
Kenny started off like the kid that he is but he's starting to find his feet a little. I'd much rather take a mistake from an inexperienced lad who is learning than a mistake from an experienced player who really should know better. 

In the grand scheme of things I doubt a 3 or 2 or 1 year contract made much difference, he was 'only' on 20k a week at Southampton so I doubt his wages are that significant and I bet the cost would have been spread over whatever period, within reason?
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Lxxx on November 13, 2017, 04:49:05 PM
In the grand scheme of things I doubt a 3 or 2 or 1 year contract made much difference, he was 'only' on 20k a week at Southampton so I doubt his wages are that significant and I bet the cost would have been spread over whatever period, within reason?

It's not necessarily the cost, when Coleman comes back he'll be 4th choice right back. Is it really necessary to have a lad taking up a squad place who isn't good enough for the first team, too old to play in the U-23's and too advanced in his career to get any better. I suppose we could always try and sell him, if we can get someone to take him off our hands.

Anyway, we've got bigger issues in our squad at the minute than Martina.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: blargins on November 13, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
I only asked how he was.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: gizzblue on November 13, 2017, 05:47:26 PM
"Local lads" can be ten times shittier than Martina is perceived to be but will always be cut more slack than a player that has been brought in by a now departed manager.
Its called the Ross equation.
Formally the Jeffers equation.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 13, 2017, 07:04:15 PM
Maybe the 3 year deal was a bit of forward thinking in terms of selling on? See if a championship side will take him off our hands for half a mil.

Not sure if we would get that money based on appearances but I can see the logic.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: D15TIN on November 13, 2017, 11:05:53 PM
Please god let that be his last game for Everton
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 13, 2017, 11:16:21 PM
Put him up front with Niasse, ther'es not a team that could plan for that.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 17, 2017, 05:43:01 PM
Unsworth just said he's been training all week and available for tomorrow.

yay.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: ally2 on November 17, 2017, 07:37:12 PM
Unsworth just said he's been training all week and available for tomorrow.

yay.

Oh good. So we can all get back to hating him again
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: TheRam on November 17, 2017, 07:38:59 PM
Oh good. So we can all get back to hating him again

When did we stop?
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Macca77 on November 17, 2017, 07:40:07 PM
Can him imagine him against Zaha tomorrow, it would be horrific
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: D15TIN on November 17, 2017, 08:18:55 PM
God I hope he's not in the squad tomorrow.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: everton1952 on November 17, 2017, 09:30:45 PM
I don't hate him, I just can't stand seeing him in an Everton shirt. What Koeman was thinking of getting him we will never know.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Toddacelli on November 18, 2017, 04:47:14 PM
Glad he's recovered.

Hope Kenny keeps him out of the team till Coleman comes back and Cuco goes on loan to Tranmere in Jan
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 18, 2017, 05:18:11 PM
Maybe the 3 year deal was a bit of forward thinking in terms of selling on? See if a championship side will take him off our hands for half a mil.

Not sure if we would get that money based on appearances but I can see the logic.
A free transfer, cheap wages, decent age - weíll sell in the summer for a few million, all profit.

Bigger issues with the financial commitment to Klassen (£90k) and Sandro (£120k). We could easily be contributing to their wages long after theyíve left, if fortunes donít change.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 18, 2017, 05:22:49 PM
I don't hate him, I just can't stand seeing him in an Everton shirt. What Koeman was thinking of getting him we will never know.
He wanted 6 months senior cover until Coleman came back - not many players out there to fulfill that criteria. But yeah, having worked with him before, he shouldíve known he wasnít good enough. TBF Holgate and Kenny have been shite so you can see why he didnít want to settle for them as cover.
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 18, 2017, 06:10:34 PM
Glad he's recovered.

Hope Kenny keeps him out of the team till Coleman comes back and Cuco goes on loan to Tranmere in Jan

This x infinity
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: Waltzer on November 18, 2017, 07:47:59 PM
A free transfer, cheap wages, decent age - we'll sell in the summer for a few million, all profit.

Bigger issues with the financial commitment to Klassen (£90k) and Sandro (£120k). We could easily be contributing to their wages long after they've left, if fortunes don't change.

Is Sandro really on 120k a week, Iím struggling to believe that when itís what we offered Lukaku and Barkley?
Title: Re: Martina
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 18, 2017, 07:54:29 PM
Martina Hingis is retiring from tennis, maybe we can replace her with Cuco and hope no one notices.