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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2015, 02:45:41 PM

Title: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2015, 02:45:41 PM
From The Echo...
Roberto Martinez insists he "couldn't care less" if Everton concede the first goal of any game - just as long as they fight back to win.

The Blues have gone behind in nine of their 13 games this season but Martinez is not worried about their habit of shipping the opening goal.

Martinez believes his Everton side have the strength of character to bounce back from conceding first and says the only time they've not shown it was against Manchester United earlier this month.

And though the Blues boss says he would prefer not to have to continually chase games, seeing the opposition score the first goal doesn't worry him.

“It is something you don't want to do, clearly," Martinez said.

“I just felt against Manchester United, for one reason or another, we couldn't react as well as we wanted – even though in the second-half we created chances to get that reaction in the scoreline.

“Goals, as you know, change games but normally we don't seem to be deflated or effected too much when we have a disappointment on the pitch.

“That is a real positive.

"Obviously you want to win the football match and if we do that then I couldn't care less that we conceded the first goal."





Any thoughts? Seems an absolutely ludicrous statement and philosophy to me, how can you not care if you concede the first goal in games, even if you do go on and win them eventually?
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Major Clanger on October 30, 2015, 02:55:23 PM
There's nothing wrong with the statement and philosophy as such, so long as (and this is important), you play highly effective counter-attacking football.

Like Leicester do, at least on their level.

In that case, conceding first is part of the risks you hope to balance out with energy and pace in the attacking third, particularly late on in the game when the opposition are tiring and/or complacent.

The problem is that we don't really do this.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: blue slug on October 30, 2015, 02:59:08 PM
Conceding the first goal and then playing dull, ponderous football isn't a recipe for success IMO
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Bluedylan on October 30, 2015, 03:02:24 PM
He says 'you want to win the football match and if we do that then I couldn't care less that we conceded the first goal'.

In the context of the entire sentence, rather than just selectively picking out one part of it (as in your thread title), there's not the slightest problem with what he's said.

He also says earlier 'it's something you don't want to do, clearly'.

Wherever you stand in the debate, there are genuine reasons to have some concerns about Martinez, so I don't think we need to contrive any more by selectively picking out quotes, divorced of context, from a larger body of text.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 30, 2015, 03:13:27 PM
He says 'you want to win the football match and if we do that then I couldn't care less that we conceded the first goal'.

In the context of the entire sentence, rather than just selectively picking out one part of it (as in your thread title), there's not the slightest problem with what he's said.

He also says earlier 'it's something you don't want to do, clearly'.

Wherever you stand in the debate, there are genuine reasons to have some concerns about Martinez, so I don't think we need to contrive any more by selectively picking out quotes, divorced of context, from a larger body of text.

It's a terrible effort of stirring the pot.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: TSGun on October 30, 2015, 03:25:38 PM
Unbelievable...selective perception at it's finest. There's enough of that in the world today, thank you.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2015, 03:34:47 PM
Regardless of his thoughts on conceding the first goal he needs to work out a way of stopping us doing it, as we only seem to wake up and he only seems to put more than two attackers on the pitch when we're behind. It's not great to watch.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 30, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
No wonder we've lost three games to the three worst sides in the league. Deluded clueless prick.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 30, 2015, 03:57:26 PM
Shit post mate
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Fern on October 30, 2015, 04:11:12 PM
No wonder we've lost three games to the three worst sides in the league. Deluded clueless prick.

No need to insult people, calm down.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2015, 04:18:45 PM
No wonder we've lost three games to the three worst sides in the league. Deluded clueless prick.

And breathe.....
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 30, 2015, 04:32:07 PM
Not the OP guys, Martinez. Chill. People can't have hate for a guy with his dog as his avatar.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 30, 2015, 04:44:56 PM
No wonder we've lost three games to the three worst sides in the league. Deluded clueless prick.

haha :snigger:
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2015, 04:50:08 PM
Unbelievable...selective perception at it's finest. There's enough of that in the world today, thank you.

It's the headline of the article on The Echo you prick, I have merely copied it.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
It's a terrible effort of stirring the pot.

It's not though.

It's sharing an article found on a local news outlet, sharing my opinion and asking others what theirs are.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 30, 2015, 04:57:14 PM
Gonna be one of those kind of days, huh?  Suppose I might as well just beat my head against the wall until I pass out.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 30, 2015, 05:02:17 PM
It's not though.

It's sharing an article found on a local news outlet, sharing my opinion and asking others what theirs are.

Fair enough. I didn't google the article tbh, maybe link it in the post?
 
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2015, 05:03:05 PM
Fair enough. I didn't google the article tbh, maybe link it in the post?
 

Oh dear.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2015, 05:05:40 PM
Fair enough. I didn't google the article tbh, maybe link it in the post?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-roberto-martinez-says-10356855
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 30, 2015, 05:11:57 PM
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-roberto-martinez-says-10356855

Thanks. But I hope you're aware that this doesn't mean that I will read it and still decide how I feel about it on a whim?
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: TSGun on October 30, 2015, 05:16:40 PM
It's the headline of the article on The Echo you prick, I have merely copied it.

Mate, I was hardly derogatory to you personally there. I realise what's happened and don't need any emphasis.

I've been an RM supporter but have to admit that support is waning. Jumping to conclusions based upon partial quotations doesn't prove or help a great deal.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2015, 05:18:42 PM
Mate, I was hardly derogatory to you personally there. I realise what's happened and don't need any emphasis.

I've been an RM supporter but have to admit that support is waning. Jumping to conclusions based upon partial quotations doesn't prove or help a great deal.

Fair enough, I retract my prick  :cheers: No sex pun intended.

Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2015, 06:19:02 PM
Hes very unprofessional when it comes to the fine margins (he so likes to talk about) penalities, defending set plays, now even worrying about the 1st goal in games
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2015, 07:13:24 PM
Hes very unprofessional when it comes to the fine margins (he so likes to talk about) penalities, defending set plays, now even worrying about the 1st goal in games

It's all good as long as we score more than the opposition.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: brap2 on October 30, 2015, 07:22:21 PM
i knew as soon as i saw the article this morning that a thread like this would be posted.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: GLewis on October 30, 2015, 07:39:39 PM
I know the article's headline is provocative.

But...

This is where he doesn't help himself.

I know he caveats this phrase with the bit about not wanting to but it is open to the negative interpretations.

We've only won 4 of the 9 games we've gone behind (1 in 6 in the league) and of the 3 cup games we needed extra time to beat Barnsley and pens to beat Norwich.

So while it's obviously true that it doesn't matter as long as we win and that he obviously would rather not go behind; when you add in his hyper positivity some people will get annoyed.

It'd be much better for his own sake if he used the caveat of something along the lines of we're working to ensure we can take control of as many games as possible.

We've won both of the (2) games that we've scored first in, pretty comfortably. I'm sure everyone, acknowledging that it's spoon feeding, would be happier if he mentioned that we're looking into how we can start games better.

The going behind in games is caught up in the general frustration of how dull we often are.

We see a response when we're losing, certainly when it's getting more desperate, so people wonder why we can't play like that earlier and apart from winning more games, maybe make it more exciting too.

Of course it's a positive that we can recover from losing positions, last year we only got 4 points from conceding the first goal in the league which was awful, so there's nothing wrong with highlighting this as it should increase confidence.

But it is very hard to keep doing. Therefore we have to get better at starting games positively and taking the lead.

Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Simon Paul on October 30, 2015, 08:18:55 PM
a couple of things

firstly, the Echo are stirring the shit here and trying to gain clicks by using a comment out of context

second, even though it's The Echo, it's still good practise to link to things you're quoting on internet forums, it's common courtesy to the people who wrote the article in the first place, and also avoid confusion as above
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: starblood on October 30, 2015, 08:29:46 PM
When we create so few genuine chances in a game, I think it's a very big deal that we seem to be conceding first in most matches and chasing games.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: blargins on October 30, 2015, 08:38:27 PM
I'm glad he said "I couldn't care less" rather than the seemingly normal "I could care less" which annoys the crap out of me :)
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 30, 2015, 09:12:58 PM
not sure what to make of it, regardless of the headline or the selective sentence posting, im not too happy or confident when we have a manager saying its ok to concede first. doesnt matter if we go on to win, its obviously we cant or wont claw back from every single game we play, so he shouldnt be putting this into the minds of our players really.

Its just another comment im worrying about.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2015, 11:22:21 PM
I'm sure it's just been lost in translation, with English not being his first language n all. Like the not bothering to practise corners, penalties being a free for all and pointless analysing goals conceded as they're inevitable. I'm sure they're all misunderstandings.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: efctaxi on October 31, 2015, 01:05:54 AM
There are reasons we go behind in games, and those reasons should be air for concern.

1. Are we picking a suitable starting eleven, and are we only rescuing the situation by substituting players that should have been on from the start?
2. Are the team in the right state of mind at the start of each game?
3. Are our tactics at 0-0 allowing the opposition to score?

I can go on, but it is for Martinez to analyse these things, and not simply have an 'as long as we score more' attitude?

I was more concerned that he once again sought to 'big up' Sunderland, just like he does every week.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: ally2 on October 31, 2015, 01:30:55 AM
a couple of things

firstly, the Echo are stirring the shit here and trying to gain clicks by using a comment out of context

second, even though it's The Echo, it's still good practise to link to things you're quoting on internet forums, it's common courtesy to the people who wrote the article in the first place, and also avoid confusion as above

Ha!  Please tell newsbot this.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 31, 2015, 02:16:21 AM
Ha!  Please tell newsbot this.

Si is newsbot isnt he??
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Simon Paul on October 31, 2015, 02:21:22 AM
Ha!  Please tell newsbot this.

@NewsBot (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1047) is his own person and does what @NewsBot (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1047) wants to do
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Silas on October 31, 2015, 02:54:05 AM
I'm newsboticus
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: bluestevie on October 31, 2015, 03:06:47 AM
There are reasons we go behind in games, and those reasons should be air for concern.

1. Are we picking a suitable starting eleven, and are we only rescuing the situation by substituting players that should have been on from the start?
2. Are the team in the right state of mind at the start of each game?
3. Are our tactics at 0-0 allowing the opposition to score?

I can go on, but it is for Martinez to analyse these things, and not simply have an 'as long as we score more' attitude?

I was more concerned that he once again sought to 'big up' Sunderland, just like he does every week.

He wasn't bigging up anyone, he was rightly saying that they could be dangerous considering they are on a high from thumping the Geordies last week and didn't have a midweek game whereas we lost at Arsenal and went the distance on Tuesday night
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 31, 2015, 03:30:24 AM
a couple of things

firstly, the Echo are stirring the shit here and trying to gain clicks by using a comment out of context

second, even though it's The Echo, it's still good practise to link to things you're quoting on internet forums, it's common courtesy to the people who wrote the article in the first place, and also avoid confusion as above

Fair enough although I didn't see the need in posting the link when I copy and pasted the whole article and also had "From the Echo" as the first line of my post.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 31, 2015, 03:39:54 AM
Far from a Martinez fan but he's said fuck all wrong there.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Alfie Noakes on October 31, 2015, 05:22:48 AM
From The Echo...
Roberto Martinez insists he "couldn't care less" if Everton concede the first goal of any game - just as long as they fight back to win.

The Blues have gone behind in nine of their 13 games this season but Martinez is not worried about their habit of shipping the opening goal.

Martinez believes his Everton side have the strength of character to bounce back from conceding first and says the only time they've not shown it was against Manchester United earlier this month.

And though the Blues boss says he would prefer not to have to continually chase games, seeing the opposition score the first goal doesn't worry him.

“It is something you don't want to do, clearly," Martinez said.

“I just felt against Manchester United, for one reason or another, we couldn't react as well as we wanted – even though in the second-half we created chances to get that reaction in the scoreline.

“Goals, as you know, change games but normally we don't seem to be deflated or effected too much when we have a disappointment on the pitch.

“That is a real positive.

"Obviously you want to win the football match and if we do that then I couldn't care less that we conceded the first goal."





Any thoughts? Seems an absolutely ludicrous statement and philosophy to me, how can you not care if you concede the first goal in games, even if you do go on and win them eventually?

Why didn't you simply call this thread something like-
"Echo reporter Phil Kirkbride would love to work for the Sun and he'd be good there too because he has an eye for sensationalism."?

Would have saved you alot of energy mate  :)
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: efctaxi on October 31, 2015, 10:06:25 AM
He wasn't bigging up anyone, he was rightly saying that they could be dangerous considering they are on a high from thumping the Geordies last week and didn't have a midweek game whereas we lost at Arsenal and went the distance on Tuesday night

Every game is the same Stevie.

You're welcome to read into it what you will, but I have personally never liked it.  :hmph:

Regardless of what they did last week, we are Everton, and the time has come to start acting like a confident club. All he has to do is say "We're looking forward to the game" and shake their hand afterwards. Detailing every positive comes across as weak minded and getting excuses in early just incase.

He should take a leaf out of Connor McGregor's book and tell fat Sam he's going to get it.  :whistle:
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: howard1334 on October 31, 2015, 11:45:22 AM
I'm sure it's just been lost in translation, with English not being his first language n all. Like the not bothering to practise corners, penalties being a free for all and pointless analysing goals conceded as they're inevitable. I'm sure they're all misunderstandings.

Not saying you are wrong, but where is the evidence we don't practice free kicks and corners? I know people are constantly saying we don't, but I just find it really hard to believe. Has Martinez  been quoted as saying so, or is it all just hearsay? If the later, I am not all that inclined to believe it.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 31, 2015, 03:38:39 PM
Not saying you are wrong, but where is the evidence we don't practice free kicks and corners? I know people are constantly saying we don't, but I just find it really hard to believe. Has Martinez  been quoted as saying so, or is it all just hearsay? If the later, I am not all that inclined to believe it.

It's Saturday morning and I'm rough so I can't be arsed digging out the link but if you're that bothered do a bit of digging, the interview is out there on the net somewhere about his obsession with stats and the low % of goals scored from corners. Also try Ossie's book.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 31, 2015, 05:08:47 PM
Far from a Martinez fan but he's said fuck all wrong there.

The problem is though that we are often going behind and almost always not winning from that position. Hence what he's said is utterly irrelevant and he has to care a lot about it
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Lxxx on October 31, 2015, 06:06:16 PM
It's good the Echo are now starting to play mischief as up till now all they've done is blow smoke up his arse.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: ally2 on October 31, 2015, 06:14:58 PM
It's a provocative comment of course. I am most uncomfortable with the implied pleasure of winning despite conceding. As a leader (Martinez I'm talking about) I think there should never be any deviation from the pursuit of perfection, or even an acknowledgement that the pursuit of anything less than perfection is remotely acceptable to those who you manage.
Title: Re: "I couldn't care less" if Blues concede first
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 31, 2015, 06:17:50 PM
As long as we win