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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 09:56:22 PM

Title: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 09:56:22 PM
You's know what I think so I'd like your opinions
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Shogun on August 06, 2017, 09:59:20 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Fjr6v88OPk7U4/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 06, 2017, 09:59:54 PM
Oh ffs
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 06, 2017, 10:00:49 PM
Can we not just delete this thread, the season hasn't even started yet.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 06, 2017, 10:06:15 PM
Can we not just delete this thread, the season hasn't even started yet.

Probably be more effective to delete the troll.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 06, 2017, 10:06:21 PM
Here we go again(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170806/c74ab59534a5d0c82d8ad4ff6ea02edf.gif)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bigmanbob on August 06, 2017, 10:09:51 PM
Why on earth would you ask a question like that on the eve of the season, when optimism is at its highest?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:10:47 PM
Probably be more effective to delete the troll.

How am I a troll? Do you think he's the right man to take us forwards?
We've allegedly got a billionaire owner and we're now "minted" so if you had a choice of coaches that we could realistically attain would you choose Koeman?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 06, 2017, 10:11:46 PM
How am I a troll? Do you think he's the right man to take us forwards?
We've allegedly got a billionaire owner and we're now "minted" so if you had a choice of coaches that we could realistically attain would you choose Koeman?

Based on the definition of the word 'troll'

troll
noun: troll; plural noun: trolls
1.
a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:12:09 PM
Why on earth would you ask a question like that on the eve of the season, when optimism is at its highest?

Your optimism may be at its highest, mine isn't, I don't like the squad or his lack of direction, he's poor
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:14:02 PM
Based on the definition of the word 'troll'

troll
noun: troll; plural noun: trolls
1.
a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.

Yeah brilliant, which part of the post was offensive? Provocative maybe but only to gain other people's opinions
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 06, 2017, 10:16:42 PM
Now you need to look up the meaning of the word 'or'.  :Horse:

The replies also suggest that others have found it offensive. Not for the first time. So you qualify on both counts.

At least you've stopped claiming to be a realist I suppose!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:21:08 PM
Now you need to look up the meaning of the word 'or'.  :Horse:

The replies also suggest that others have found it offensive. Not for the first time. So you qualify on both counts.

At least you've stopped claiming to be a realist I suppose!

What could you possibly find offensive about me asking if he's the right man for the job? He's paid millions per year and I gather my ticket money and buying kits etc probably contributes somewhere along the line?

And I never stopped claiming anything one of the mods used his special mod powers to change my username
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 06, 2017, 10:22:31 PM
And I never stopped claiming anything one of the mods used his special mod powers to change my username

 lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol

Some boss mods round here.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:23:25 PM
This forum is quite weird, if you don't come on claiming everything is rosy & agree with everyone else people start having a go at you, isn't a forum a place where people express their opinions?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:23:51 PM
lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol lolol

Some boss mods round here.

Boss.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 06, 2017, 10:26:13 PM
You are a kopite.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:27:46 PM
You are a kopite.

And you're boring, I've told you 10 times I'm not. Go and write on mumsnet or bake a cake or sutn Audrey
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Robioto on August 06, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
Are defeatist and realist the same clown then?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 06, 2017, 10:31:24 PM
And you're boring, I've told you 10 times I'm not. Go and write on mumsnet or bake a cake or sutn Audrey

Ah, a kopite AND sexist. Great.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Gash on August 06, 2017, 10:32:43 PM
This forum is quite weird, if you don't come on claiming everything is rosy & agree with everyone else people start having a go at you, isn't a forum a place where people express their opinions?

No one's claiming everything is rosy and there's a wide range of opinions on here. But when someone joins the forum and posts nothing but negative comments at a time when the club is going through a lot of positive changes then it tends to draw attention to the person.

You may not think so but you are coming across as a troll or someone deliberately trying to get a reaction, that's why people are having a go and it's hard to disagree with them.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Robioto on August 06, 2017, 10:32:53 PM
Deleted - I played into this idiot's hands by reacting.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: TheTone on August 06, 2017, 10:36:06 PM
yup, Koeman out, worst manager I've ever seen, bring back Roberto  :whistle:
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 06, 2017, 10:36:10 PM
Haha. What a wanker.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:36:28 PM
No one's claiming everything is rosy and there's a wide range of opinions on here. But when someone joins the forum and posts nothing but negative comments at a time when the club is going through a lot of positive changes then it tends to draw attention to the person.

You may not think so but you are coming across as a troll or someone deliberately trying to get a reaction, that's why people are having a go and it's hard to disagree with them.

They do claim it's all rosy though, I've seen one or two posts to the contrary but other than that nothing
The squads a mess imo, no out & out goal scorers. And I think Koeman is a shit manager
Like I said I buy my tickets and my kid gets the kits so I'm entitled to my opinion whether it suits people or it doesn't
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Brownie on August 06, 2017, 10:36:47 PM
You may want to try this website mate

https://www.samaritans.org
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:37:49 PM
yup, Koeman out, worst manager I've ever seen, bring back Roberto  :whistle:

Yeah I didn't like Martinez either but that's irrelevant he's gone now
Koeman is the manager now so I'm asking for people's opinions on him
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 06, 2017, 10:39:33 PM
And you're boring, I've told you 10 times I'm not. Go and write on mumsnet or bake a cake or sutn Audrey

Do one you dopey prick.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:40:44 PM
Do one you dopey prick.
Yeah you'd already replied to that post Bob, jog on pal
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 06, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Yeah I didn't like Martinez either but that's irrelevant he's gone now
Koeman is the manager now so I'm asking for people's opinions on him
He steadied a sinking ship last season

He has bought well so far imo. Improved the quality of the first xi

Is he the man to take us forward? We will see this season as this is now his side

You can't write him off for what he did with what was in general martinez side and he took us up four places and a lot of points

So let's get behind them and see how we get on, the transfer window isn't shut yet either
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 06, 2017, 10:42:29 PM
Yeah you'd already replied to that post Bob, jog on pal

Nah the wanker one was for the trolling thread.

After you posted the mumsnet comment it's clear that you're just a dopey prick.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 10:43:38 PM
He steadied a sinking ship last season

He has bought well so far imo. Improved the quality of the first xi

Is he the man to take us forward? We will see this season as this is now his side

You can't write him off for what he did with what was in general martinez side and he took us up four places and a lot of points

So let's get behind them and see how we get on, the transfer window isn't shut yet either

Thanks for just posting your opinion instead of adopting pack mentality - (a telltale sign of below average IQ)
I'm just not liking what he's doing, surely he should've had Lukakus replacement lined up, now we're 3 weeks away and still need signings to bed in
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Polledreng on August 06, 2017, 10:43:46 PM
New name still posting shite
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: everton1952 on August 06, 2017, 10:45:49 PM
Give up when you are losing the argument and live up to your name Defeatist.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 06, 2017, 10:46:10 PM
Thanks for just posting your opinion instead of adopting pack mentality - (a telltale sign of below average IQ)
I'm just not liking what he's doing, surely he should've had Lukakus replacement lined up, now we're 3 weeks away and still need signings to bed in
I doubt you'd see anyone disagree about lukaku. We were never gonna get a direct replacement tho and koeman himself has said he wants a further two forwards. The transfer window is a massive bug bearer of mine, it should end July 31 and teams should be settled more for when the season begins
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Paddockoldie on August 06, 2017, 10:46:24 PM
What reaction did you think you'd get with that type of question seeing as we've spend more than in our history and improved the squad. Koeman is a good manager. The best? No of course not but he's only had a season and has spent his time clearing up from Martinez, now he was shit. Just get behind the team or don't bother at all.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 06, 2017, 10:48:29 PM
They do claim it's all rosy though, I've seen one or two posts to the contrary but other than that nothing
The squads a mess imo, no out & out goal scorers. And I think Koeman is a shit manager
Like I said I buy my tickets and my kid gets the kits so I'm entitled to my opinion whether it suits people or it doesn't

You don't need to buy tickets to be entitled to an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. You seem to be struggling with the fact that most people's opinion appears to be that your opinions are stupid.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bally on August 06, 2017, 10:50:57 PM
Thanks for just posting your opinion instead of adopting pack mentality - (a telltale sign of below average IQ)
I'm just not liking what he's doing, surely he should've had Lukakus replacement lined up, now we're 3 weeks away and still need signings to bed in
In before the clique shout

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Brownie on August 06, 2017, 10:51:32 PM
Thanks for just posting your opinion instead of adopting pack mentality - (a telltale sign of below average IQ)
I'm just not liking what he's doing, surely he should've had Lukakus replacement lined up, now we're 3 weeks away and still need signings to bed in

Below average IQ is one thing you can't accuse posters of on here.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 06, 2017, 10:53:19 PM
In before the ....... oh.  😕
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 06, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
Below average IQ is one thing you can't accuse posters of on here.

It is a classic example of a troll comment though
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 11:00:16 PM
In before the clique shout

I don't think it's a clique
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blue1948 on August 06, 2017, 11:01:03 PM
Well I must say that although he might have gone at it the wrong way and the reaction he received was probably justified ,he has every right to ask the question .If indeed he does support the club and buy kits for his kid he deserves some respect .I do not condone the sexist comment in any way but I do support his right to post a question .You all must realise that you did indeed gang up on him whether justified or not.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 11:01:51 PM
You don't need to buy tickets to be entitled to an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. You seem to be struggling with the fact that most people's opinion appears to be that your opinions are stupid.

I don't mind if people think my opinion is stupid, it won't change it, I'm not after my opinion, I'm after everybody elses
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Gash on August 06, 2017, 11:02:13 PM
Anyone care to discuss the topic or will we have to lock it?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 06, 2017, 11:03:14 PM
Thanks for just posting your opinion instead of adopting pack mentality - (a telltale sign of below average IQ)
I'm just not liking what he's doing, surely he should've had Lukakus replacement lined up, now we're 3 weeks away and still need signings to bed in

You are aware that Koeman doesn't pick the team, identify the players, negotiate the deals and drive the team bus don't you? He's the manager not the board. Feel free to judge him on what happens on the pitch but direct the appropriate criticism to the ones off it too.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 11:04:05 PM
What reaction did you think you'd get with that type of question seeing as we've spend more than in our history and improved the squad. Koeman is a good manager. The best? No of course not but he's only had a season and has spent his time clearing up from Martinez, now he was shit. Just get behind the team or don't bother at all.

I don't think he's improved the squad, I think it's deteriorated, get behind the team, I've said numerous times I do, it doesn't mean I can't question the management surely
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Silas on August 06, 2017, 11:04:20 PM
Yes I think he is, he did fine last season and his transfer record so far more hit than miss. A lot riding on this season for me. Maintaining at least the position we finished last season and a good run in the cups is the minimum for this year, anything less and we should be asking questions
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on August 06, 2017, 11:20:45 PM
Yes I think he is,  although it's not too much of an absurd question to ask, if you're genuinely looking for an answer.

This year will be the year that we find out whether Koeman is the man to take the club to the next step, we all saw what happened to Martinez after the first season (although we're a completely different squad to the squad we had in Martinez's second season, with significantly better financial backing).
Koeman has stabilised us back to roughly where we were at the end of the Moyes era, he has to improve this season.


After the first 5 games we should have an idea on how this season is going to go.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 06, 2017, 11:24:46 PM
Thanks for just posting your opinion instead of adopting pack mentality - (a telltale sign of below average IQ)
I'm just not liking what he's doing, surely he should've had Lukakus replacement lined up, now we're 3 weeks away and still need signings to bed in

Out of interest who do you like. You don't like koeman or sandro. Who are you a fan of? What are the positives? We finished 7th last season which realistically was the absolute best we could do. We've bought well this season. Now there's a couple of big holes in our recruitment but there's still time

Koeman has done a good job so far. He's absolutely the man to take us forwards. Though given the gap forwards might actually not lead to any gain in league positions
Who do you want as manager?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 06, 2017, 11:37:59 PM
So, Lukaku left what, 3 weeks ago? Now it was no shock when he did. So now with three weeks left of the window Koeman comes out with he needs two more strikers, really, surely this should have been a priority. Even if we get Siggurdson, he won't be match fit for how long.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 06, 2017, 11:43:34 PM
So, Lukaku left what, 3 weeks ago? Now it was no shock when he did. So now with three weeks left of the window Koeman comes out with he needs two more strikers, really, surely this should have been a priority. Even if we get Siggurdson, he won't be match fit for how long.

He never said he's just realised he needs 2 strikers. Without knowing why we haven't signed them yet can we really hand out blame. We need the right players at the right prices
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Big Nev on August 06, 2017, 11:44:19 PM
I said before Koeman was appointed, that the guy who replaced Martinez would take at least 3 transfer windows to sort it out , if not 4.

We've had 2.5 so far.

I reckon next Summer will show his real squad.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 06, 2017, 11:48:45 PM
This forum is quite weird, if you don't come on claiming everything is rosy & agree with everyone else people start having a go at you, isn't a forum a place where people express their opinions?

Not this one . Say anything negative and you get trolled to fuck by people whose only form of attack is to call you a troll . I think he is using us as a stepping stone but I don't have an issue with that as most Managers get fucked over anyway.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 06, 2017, 11:50:01 PM
It's like krimbo mate we've just got to wait now, nowt wrong with the question just a bit early for some understandably....
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Big Nev on August 06, 2017, 11:52:39 PM
Not this one . Say anything negative and you get trolled to fuck by people whose only form of attack is to call you a troll . I think he is using us as a stepping stone but I don't have an issue with that as most Managers get fucked over anyway.


What a load of rubbish.
If opinions are put succinctly and obviously not trying to inflame or troll, they are considered and then shot down...


 :police: :police: :police:     :titanic:
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 06, 2017, 11:54:53 PM
http://mythfolklore.net/aesopica/perry/210.htm
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 11:55:39 PM
Thanks for getting the thread on track guys with your opinions, it's all I was after.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 11:56:18 PM
You are aware that Koeman doesn't pick the team, identify the players, negotiate the deals and drive the team bus don't you? He's the manager not the board. Feel free to judge him on what happens on the pitch but direct the appropriate criticism to the ones off it too.

He doesn't pick the team? What are you on about?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 06, 2017, 11:56:40 PM
I don't think he's improved the squad, I think it's deteriorated, get behind the team, I've said numerous times I do, it doesn't mean I can't question the management surely

Every thread..... just moan about squad getting worse, never once acknowledging the fact there's weeks of the transfer window left.....

Like a fucking spoilt kid who wants everything instantly and has no concept of patience, and if it's not instant than someone must be to blame
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 06, 2017, 11:58:13 PM
He never said he's just realised he needs 2 strikers. Without knowing why we haven't signed them yet can we really hand out blame. We need the right players at the right prices
Neither did I say he's just realised!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Silas on August 06, 2017, 11:59:14 PM
I can see lots of dull one nil results but we will be efficient. Our fans will not like it but it will yield a decent season for us.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 06, 2017, 11:59:57 PM
Every thread..... just moan about squad getting worse, never once acknowledging the fact there's weeks of the transfer window left.....

Like a fucking spoilt kid who wants everything instantly and has no concept of patience, and if it's not instant than someone must be to blame

Allow people their own opinion mate
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bacon sarnie on August 07, 2017, 12:01:11 AM
I think he's the right man for now but will he be when we start winning trophies? Ha, the plot thickens...
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: TheRam on August 07, 2017, 12:02:50 AM
Call me mad, but im waiting until we're a few months into the season before I make a judgement.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: gizzblue on August 07, 2017, 12:07:14 AM
What could you possibly find offensive about me asking if he's the right man for the job? He's paid millions per year and I gather my ticket money and buying kits etc probably contributes somewhere along the line?

And I never stopped claiming anything one of the mods used his special mod powers to change my username
How would buying Liverpool kits and Analfield tickets be any good to Everton ?....

No ball has been kicked this season yet ....in ten games I might (might doubtfully ) even agree with your musings...but to be throwing toys from your pram already is way premature imho ....even for a red nose (aside Steve Slippy G )of course like before the cup match today....he's the only person matches your superior negativity about us.. .imho
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: American Evertonian on August 07, 2017, 12:10:43 AM
I just wonder if he will sign an extension if we crack top 6 this year.

Or if he will just look to use that to make his next step.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 07, 2017, 12:12:03 AM
Neither did I say he's just realised!

But then who's to say it wasn't a priority.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 07, 2017, 12:15:09 AM
I can see lots of dull one nil results but we will be efficient. Our fans will not like it but it will yield a decent season for us.
Defeats or wins?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Silas on August 07, 2017, 12:16:02 AM
Defeats or wins?

Wins I hope, the addition of Keane and Pickford should sway tighter results in our favour
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 07, 2017, 12:17:15 AM
Call me mad, but im waiting until we're a few months into the season before I make a judgement.


You mad bastard.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 07, 2017, 12:17:20 AM
Allow people their own opinion mate

Now that we all definitely know your opinion on this matter from every single fucking thread you've written into, do you promise to shut up about it?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:17:25 AM
How would buying Liverpool kits and Analfield tickets be any good to Everton ?....

No ball has been kicked this season yet ....in ten games I might (might doubtfully ) even agree with your musings...but to be throwing toys from your pram already is way premature imho ....even for a red nose (aside Steve Slippy G )of course like before the cup match today....he's the only person matches your superior negativity about us.. .imho

Another example of if your opinion doesn't match everyone else's you're either a troll or a red, it's gettin boring now son, go post elsewhere if you've got nothing to say about the topic of the thread
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 07, 2017, 12:18:26 AM
Call me mad, but im waiting until we're a few months into the season before I make a judgement.

That's crazy talk.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:18:40 AM
I just wonder if he will sign an extension if we crack top 6 this year.

Or if he will just look to use that to make his next step.

It's inevitable he'll go to Barca one day
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 07, 2017, 12:20:20 AM
Wins I hope, the addition of Keane and Pickford should sway tighter results in our favour
Love Pickford Keanes been ok he just has to lose that drifting towards the play and taking himself out of position, he got caught with it several times last year at ours, but easily sorted and it wasn't as much today..
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:21:11 AM
Now that we all definitely know your opinion on this matter from every single fucking thread you've written into, do you promise to shut up about it?

Like I said allow people their own opinions Wellard
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Goaljira on August 07, 2017, 12:23:01 AM
He's not done a lot wrong for me.

You cant blame him for Lukaku leaving, and we dont know what the fuck is wrong with Barkley.  He inherited a squad that was aging and needed massive changes, that had finished 11th 2 seasons running and couldn't match the wages of the top 6 sides.

Instead of being able to go out and buy like for like replacements he's had to spread the money available across 4 times as many players for the first xi.

What did you actually expect him to do better than he has?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: American Evertonian on August 07, 2017, 12:23:32 AM
It's inevitable he'll go to Barca one day

Agree. I think he is an elite manager. Think he will have to make another move first but I can see him being there two jobs from now
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 07, 2017, 12:24:01 AM
But then who's to say it wasn't a priority.
It seems like he's hell bent on getting Sig, but nothing like that regards a forward other than names bandied around the media, nothing too the extent of Sig.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 07, 2017, 12:24:15 AM
Like I said allow people their own opinions Wellard

That's exactly what has happened. You were allowed your opinion, and it has been duly noted.

Now that you've got the message out, what exactly do you expect to achieve by repeating it even more, apart from annoying the fuck out of everybody?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 07, 2017, 12:24:18 AM
Like I said allow people their own opinions Wellard
Your sound mate your taking the heat from me...
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:25:25 AM
Agree. I think he is an elite manager. Think he will have to make another move first but I can see him being there two jobs from now

I'd disagree on the elite bit tbh, I do think he'll go there anyway due to his past with them.
You don't need to be a great manager to win things at teams like that
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Silas on August 07, 2017, 12:26:39 AM
You aren't an elite manager until you prove yourself to be so. He's done nothing aside from a good job at a few clubs thus far. We are his opportunity to prove himself
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: gizzblue on August 07, 2017, 12:27:54 AM
Another example of if your opinion doesn't match everyone else's you're either a troll or a red, it's gettin boring now son, go post elsewhere if you've got nothing to say about the topic of the thread
you havnt give Koeman enough time by a long chalk  ...we're not Chelsea ,or palace knee jerking yet another manager out after a year ,and he's not Sam Allardyce looking to move on after six months  ....we are in the middle of building something  ...... get behind the team ffs (I don't agree with all his signings but I'm a blue firstly ) or go to Analfield .....with other no patience glory hunters .
Like I said only Steve g matches your negativity. ...strange that .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:30:05 AM
He's not done a lot wrong for me.

You cant blame him for Lukaku leaving, and we dont know what the fuck is wrong with Barkley.  He inherited a squad that was aging and needed massive changes, that had finished 11th 2 seasons running and couldn't match the wages of the top 6 sides.

Instead of being able to go out and buy like for like replacements he's had to spread the money available across 4 times as many players for the first xi.

What did you actually expect him to do better than he has?

You know you've raised some pretty good points there tbh. Maybe I'm expecting too much ?
Great post
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on August 07, 2017, 12:32:55 AM
Too early to tell. The only way you can make a judgement on a manager after twelve months is if he's been an absolute disaster of Mike Walker proportions.

Will Koeman take us to the very top? That's doubtful because the deciding factors will be out of his hands.
Things looked promising early in the summer because we spent unusually large sums by our standards before most other clubs entered the market. However, since then the clubs above us have started to spend their money and there is no way we will be competing for Champions League with this current squad.
 
We have to make realistic goals and judge him on them. If he hangs around to be judged of course; which may be doubtful if we're expecting him to compete by buying players from the bottom half of the Premier League and some of the smaller leagues around Europe.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: 74Blue on August 07, 2017, 12:33:50 AM
I don't think he's improved the squad, I think it's deteriorated, get behind the team, I've said numerous times I do, it doesn't mean I can't question the management surely
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that his failure to directly replace Lukaku with another absolute goal scoring machine could be down to two things:
1. Goal scoring machines are an extremely valuable commodity so there aren't too many available out there who would go anywhere but a Champions League club.
2. He may be working on a system that makes us a little less one-dimensional and is looking to build a side that can create and score goals from areas other than just give it to Lukaku and hope he buries it.


...just my opinion like.

I don't think our business has been too bad this summer and I do think there may still be a surprise or two.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:36:02 AM
That's exactly what has happened. You were allowed your opinion, and it has been duly noted.

Now that you've got the message out, what exactly do you expect to achieve by repeating it even more, apart from annoying the fuck out of everybody?

I haven't repeated it though have I?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: ally2 on August 07, 2017, 12:36:19 AM
Typical and predictable put down responses in here particularly early on, in line with some posters who've clearly got in it in for Koeman (which is far worse) but then the thread finally evolved. 

I think he is the right man for this time.  I remember some thinking that Mourinho was attainable at one point.  It was unrealistic in hindsight but ay that time we didn't know what our financial power was so it was fair enough to speculate.  Koeman has addressed the basics after our club descended into, frankly, an embarrassment.  The squad has an odd shape about it as things stand but as Big Nev said - we need to see a few more windows pass.  And we also need to understand that Everton is not Koeman - some fans clearly can't accept the director of football model for some reason. 

In 2 years time, Koeman and Everton will be in different places.  I'm pleased with the overall strategy, and in particular that we are not doing a Chelsea or City.  Those clubs got to the top but they lost class and respect in the way they did it.  Let's do things right.  If that means more slowly then fine.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 07, 2017, 12:36:42 AM
I think he's the right man for now but will he be when we start winning trophies? Ha, the plot thickens...

I will bet you now we win fuck all .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:37:32 AM
Your sound mate your taking the heat from me...

Haha
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: sam of the south on August 07, 2017, 12:42:16 AM
Like I said allow people their own opinions Wellard

Haha, Wellard
 
MC, you dawg..


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170806/f6349eca1b943e2be5e18a0ced14663d.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 07, 2017, 12:43:43 AM
It seems like he's hell bent on getting Sig, but nothing like that regards a forward other than names bandied around the media, nothing too the extent of Sig.

Know what you mean. I'm assuming there's plenty going on behind the scenes though. Hope so anyway
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Goaljira on August 07, 2017, 12:44:15 AM
I will bet you now we win fuck all .


Given we'll likely be at least 10/1 for every competition we're in then i'd hazard a guess you'll be right.

Current odds:
League - 80/1
Europa - 25/1
Fa Cup - 16/1
Carabao Cup* - 16/1

So the odds of winning any one of them is around 11/2 maximum, as doing well in one potentially impacts the odds positively or negatively in the others.

*Seriously, who the fuck are Carabao?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 07, 2017, 12:47:13 AM
I haven't repeated it though have I?

You're joking, right?

There is not a single thread you've written into that you haven't banged on about it in. Just check your own post history if you don't believe me. You claim that it's your opinion that irks people, but that isn't true: it's the constant and relentless repetition without any added value or information.

And if you're contemplating the "but this is a forum" defence, let me pre-counter it: no, a forum isn't about opinions at all. A forum is about its people, people from very different backgrounds and with very little in common (in our case, only Everton), engaging meaningfully with each other. It's a platform for discourse and not a well to repeatedly shout your opinion into until you hear an echo.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:50:51 AM
You're joking, right?

There is not a single thread you've written into that you haven't banged on about it in. Just check your own post history if you don't believe me. You claim that it's your opinion that irks people, but that isn't true: it's the constant and relentless repetition without any added value or information.

And if you're contemplating the "but this is a forum" defence, let me pre-counter it: no, a forum isn't about opinions at all. A forum is about its people, people from very different backgrounds and with very little in common (in our case, only Everton), engaging meaningfully with each other. It's a platform for discourse and not a well to repeatedly shout your opinion into until you hear an echo.
Every thread..... just moan about squad getting worse, never once acknowledging the fact there's weeks of the transfer window left.....

Like a fucking spoilt kid who wants everything instantly and has no concept of patience, and if it's not instant than someone must be to blame

Is that you're idea of "engaging meanfully" with the community?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 07, 2017, 12:52:25 AM
My crochet and needle point forum get's feisty at times...
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 07, 2017, 12:53:12 AM
Every thread..... just moan about squad getting worse, never once acknowledging the fact there's weeks of the transfer window left.....

Like a fucking spoilt kid who wants everything instantly and has no concept of patience, and if it's not instant than someone must be to blame

Is that you're idea of "engaging meanfully" with the community?

I'm not saying everybody gets it right all the time, in fact nobody does, but you don't even seem to be trying.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 12:55:49 AM
I'm not saying everybody gets it right all the time, in fact nobody does, but you don't even seem to be trying.

Thought so.
Peace
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ross on August 07, 2017, 01:06:09 AM
Guess it depends on what the job is.

If it's establishing us a title contenders and serial winners I'd say no. As evidence his CV doesn't point to this in anyway and neither does his short term contract or his time here in the premier league with us or Southampton.

If he's remit is to make us consistent and comfortably best of the rest I'd say yeah he should be up to that, but it won't be exciting more functional.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on August 07, 2017, 01:36:57 AM
I've obviously got a few reservations but he's got credit in the bank with me yet. Here's one big reason why : http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-boss-ronald-koeman-blasts-13440071

"I heard every time that 'Everton is spending 100m, 100m, 100m' but I saw the list and I think we're 16th in the League for spending and we got 95m for Lukaku.

"We've only spent 7m. It's a different picture then the media is talking.

The club have actively talked up this new era and we now have someone willing to openly challenge the club to deliver.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 07, 2017, 01:46:55 AM
I've obviously got a few reservations but he's got credit in the bank with me yet. Here's one big reason why : http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-boss-ronald-koeman-blasts-13440071

"I heard every time that 'Everton is spending 100m, 100m, 100m' but I saw the list and I think we're 16th in the League for spending and we got 95m for Lukaku.

"We've only spent 7m. It's a different picture then the media is talking.

The club have actively talked up this new era and we now have someone willing to openly challenge the club to deliver.

95 million for Lukaku sounds so good.

But here's the thing, we have been big spenders, and we're in a reasonably good position. I don't think we're weaker than last season, we're different. If we can lay good foundations without spending big and get up to the next level, then we can spend big and put the icing on the cake. January could be that time.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bacon sarnie on August 07, 2017, 01:50:23 AM
I will bet you now we win fuck all .


Tempted to take the bet to win the lot at 11-2 odds but no fuckin way will we win the Carabao Cup!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 07, 2017, 01:57:53 AM
Dunno why but this thread makes me think of a dog dragging its arse across your carpet because it's got an itch.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blue slug on August 07, 2017, 02:00:22 AM
Unbelievable, can the mods lock thread and throw away the key ffs
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on August 07, 2017, 02:01:21 AM
Go easy on him (Defeatist) until the transfer window hots up again and real football starts there has to be something to fill the void.
To start a good wind up post and then watch it and keep it going for 3 hours+ suggests there is quite a void in his life to fill.
With Klopp unlikely to survive the season there will be lots to discuss but until then let's indulge him for a while.
I think Koeman is better then Pulis. There, let's discuss that.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 02:05:16 AM
I've obviously got a few reservations but he's got credit in the bank with me yet. Here's one big reason why : http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-boss-ronald-koeman-blasts-13440071

"I heard every time that 'Everton is spending 100m, 100m, 100m' but I saw the list and I think we're 16th in the League for spending and we got 95m for Lukaku.

"We've only spent 7m. It's a different picture then the media is talking.

The club have actively talked up this new era and we now have someone willing to openly challenge the club to deliver.

Board full of shit then, been here before haven't we
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 02:06:39 AM
95 million for Lukaku sounds so good.

But here's the thing, we have been big spenders, and we're in a reasonably good position. I don't think we're weaker than last season, we're different. If we can lay good foundations without spending big and get up to the next level, then we can spend big and put the icing on the cake. January could be that time.

Where have we been big spenders? Koemans there saying we've spent 7m
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: TheRam on August 07, 2017, 02:07:39 AM
We're undefeated in pre season.

Where have all these doubts suddenly come from?

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 02:07:59 AM
Go easy on him (Defeatist) until the transfer window hots up again and real football starts there has to be something to fill the void.
To start a good wind up post and then watch it and keep it going for 3 hours+ suggests there is quite a void in his life to fill.
With Klopp unlikely to survive the season there will be lots to discuss but until then let's indulge him for a while.
I think Koeman is better then Pulis. There, let's discuss that.

Ah the old Red shout again. Good one
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 07, 2017, 02:09:29 AM
Where have we been big spenders? Koemans there saying we've spent 7m

We have spent 30 million on Keane and Pickford. 24 million on Klaassen. 7 million on Henry. 10 million on Rooney, Ramirez in for 5 million.

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 02:11:40 AM
We have spent 30 million on Keane and Pickford. 24 million on Klaassen. 7 million on Henry. 10 million on Rooney, Ramirez in for 5 million.

95 - 76 = the definition of not spending big
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on August 07, 2017, 02:12:46 AM
Ah the old Red shout again. Good one
Forget the redshite for now, what about Pulis. (manager at West Brom).
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 07, 2017, 02:15:20 AM
95 - 76 = the definition of not spending big

To spend big, you have to have money, don't you? I remember selling a house once for about half a million dollars. I spent big buying several other properties with the proceeds of that money. I made a ton of money doing that in the long run (lost it all since, but that's another story altogether).

It's all about perspective, isn't it? We have spent big. Our net spend might be small, but you cannot deny we haven't spent big.

Besides, the summer isn't over yet either. We look to be spending 50 million on another player in the coming days plus more on a couple of others.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blue slug on August 07, 2017, 02:15:40 AM
I honestly believe we would of signed all these players if lukaku had stayed anyway
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on August 07, 2017, 02:20:58 AM
We're undefeated in pre season.

Where have all these doubts suddenly come from?



Assuming it is unrealistic expectations that we'd look a bit like the Dutch '74 team as we'd signed some players early on.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: 74Blue on August 07, 2017, 02:30:18 AM
I don't think that the issue is necessarily a lack of money. I think that even if Lukaku had stayed we would have gone on a bit of a spending spree regardless. Maybe not as much as we have spent, but a fair old wedge all the same.
I think that the main issue is that we are in a bit of a difficult position at present. We have some money to spend, but we can't offer Champions League football, so the players that we can realistically attract are not quite the world class superstars that we crave. We're kind of shopping in Waitrose with almost a Harrods budget.
Beats the years that we've had to endure of shopping at Lidl with a free food voucher though.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 07, 2017, 02:50:19 AM
Go easy on him (Defeatist) until the transfer window hots up again and real football starts there has to be something to fill the void.
To start a good wind up post and then watch it and keep it going for 3 hours+ suggests there is quite a void in his life to fill.
With Klopp unlikely to survive the season there will be lots to discuss but until then let's indulge him for a while.
I think Koeman is better then Pulis. There, let's discuss that.
I quite like Pulis..
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: 74Blue on August 07, 2017, 03:01:04 AM
I quite like Pulis..
Pulis is good at what he does. He rocks up at struggling teams and shores them up, making them well organised and difficult to beat. You know when you come up against any Tony Pulis side that they will be set up to frustrate the fuck out of you and will consist of a number of big grocks. You have to give the guy credit for playing to his strengths.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 03:07:59 AM
I honestly believe we would of signed all these players if lukaku had stayed anyway

Debatable
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: 74Blue on August 07, 2017, 03:15:23 AM
Debatable
I don't think it is tbh. I think that Koeman and Walsh had already identified some dead wood at Everton well before the end of last season and that they would have been looking to replace some of this regardless of whether Lukaku stayed or not.

I think that if the right offer came in for McCarthy, for instance, we'd take the money and run. Cleverley was off the books like a shot, along with Darron Gibson, Aiden McGeady, Bryan Oviedo. He's brought in a brand new keeper, which tells you that he has identified Robles as deadwood. There's the shadow hanging over Ross Barkley. I think Koeman has accepted that he's definitely not signing and is carrying on as if he's not here anymore, which makes sense.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bally on August 07, 2017, 03:18:56 AM
It's inevitable he'll go to Barca one day
Yet he's not the manager for Everton.... Ok
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 07, 2017, 03:46:12 AM
A lot will depend on moshri now, amd how much he will let him spend now the Lukaku money is spent, as said it looked like we were splurging money for fun but it wasn't the case and if his spending gets curbed now he will be miffed, i think he will be given more money though.otherwise we're not much further on and i think Moshri is more ambitious than that..
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on August 07, 2017, 04:03:09 AM
Debatable
So would it be different if Pulis was in charge? You asked if RK was good enough. To answer that you need a comparison (hot means nothing without understanding cold, tall and short etc) . Pulis is middle of the table so where does that place RK?
Title: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 07, 2017, 04:10:58 AM
Allow people their own opinion mate

To be honest mate, I don't think it's your opinions that have caused you the bother. It was the choice of username, and a new user immediately starting threads, so by the time you made this one a lot of people had already made up their minds about you.

There's nothing wrong with having negative opinions about the team and the club, but you have probably picked the worst time. It's a bit like walking into a party where most people are having fun and going on a massive downer.. It's inevitable you get called a party pooper.

In general I've found this forum to be fairly open. There are a few characters who will cut apart anyone with a different opinion from them, but that works in both directions (positive and negative). Some people choose to believe there is a clique, or a gang of bullies, but mostly there are just a few posters who react strongly to things, balanced by a majority of weighed opinions. I certainly don't agree with all of them, but most of them have something to contribute.

One tip - try and read everything with a pinch of salt and tongue in cheek. There's a lot of mockery around here and sometimes people take offence at things that were probably intended, at least in part, as humour.  :)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 07, 2017, 04:17:03 AM
It seems like he's hell bent on getting Sig, but nothing like that regards a forward other than names bandied around the media, nothing too the extent of Sig.

But that's judging a manager's strategy based entirely on press rumours? He might be a straight talker but I doubt he calls a journo with every detail of his plans?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 04:18:48 AM
Yet he's not the manager for Everton.... Ok

Like I said in a later post you don't have to be a great manager to win trophies at Barca, if he went there anytime soon it'd be because of what he achieved with them as a player not what he's done as a manager
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 07, 2017, 04:19:59 AM
I don't think it is tbh. I think that Koeman and Walsh had already identified some dead wood at Everton well before the end of last season and that they would have been looking to replace some of this regardless of whether Lukaku stayed or not.

I think that if the right offer came in for McCarthy, for instance, we'd take the money and run. Cleverley was off the books like a shot, along with Darron Gibson, Aiden McGeady, Bryan Oviedo. He's brought in a brand new keeper, which tells you that he has identified Robles as deadwood. There's the shadow hanging over Ross Barkley. I think Koeman has accepted that he's definitely not signing and is carrying on as if he's not here anymore, which makes sense.

I guess we'll never know but it's debatable clearly
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 07, 2017, 04:21:03 AM
I will bet you now we win fuck all .

Now that is defeatist.  :hug:
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 07, 2017, 04:28:48 AM
We're undefeated in pre season.

Where have all these doubts suddenly come from?

The dark twisted recesses of minds damaged by too many years of being an Evertonian? It is kind of amazing that so many people are still capable of optimism really.

Either that or a lot of people drink or take drugs before posting.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 07, 2017, 04:33:31 AM
Pulis is good at what he does. He rocks up at struggling teams and shores them up, making them well organised and difficult to beat. You know when you come up against any Tony Pulis side that they will be set up to frustrate the fuck out of you and will consist of a number of big grocks. You have to give the guy credit for playing to his strengths.

He is the Ronseal of football managers.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 07, 2017, 05:11:44 AM
.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on August 07, 2017, 05:12:39 AM
I guess we'll never know but it's debatable clearly
You still haven't answered about Pulis. He's the man who used to be at Stoke. He invented Rory Delay.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 07, 2017, 05:17:17 AM
I like him calling out the board again. We were here in January and Schneiderlin signed pretty soon after.

He's rightly identified we've spent little so far with another c50m to come in for Barkley and McCarthy as and when they go. He's the manager and Walsh/Moshiri are there to give him the tools to enable him to do the job. Let's wait and see if he gets what he needs before we pass judgement.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Everton Mint on August 07, 2017, 05:18:19 AM
After watching all our pre-season & Europa games and also those of last years top 6, we still look miles away.

RK has bought some good players, but our team play, tactics, formations and intensity have been so poor.

Jury is still well out for me.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 07, 2017, 01:33:39 PM
Tempted to take the bet to win the lot at 11-2 odds but no fuckin way will we win the Carabao Cup!

Manager hasn't got a good record in cup competitions and we were awful last season . The only thing I am hoping for is an improvement away from home and a lot more consistency over 90 mins . I think we will play better as aunit without Lukaku but his goals are a lot to replace even with the edition of the massively overated Siggurdson .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 07, 2017, 03:19:29 PM
We're undefeated in pre season.

Where have all these doubts suddenly come from?
Not very exciting though is it. Still lots of sideways and backwards passing. Look how Sevilla passed it about, quick snappy forward passing.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: BlueForYou on August 07, 2017, 03:19:50 PM
Yes, he is the right man - until 2019
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on August 07, 2017, 03:21:22 PM
Not very exciting though is it. Still lots of sideways and backwards passing. Look how Sevilla passed it about, quick snappy forward passing.

How many years ahead of th curve are Sevilla though?

Plus they play in a league where all the teams are very decent at passing in comparison to the PL equivalents.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 07, 2017, 03:26:52 PM
Manager hasn't got a good record in cup competitions and we were awful last season . The only thing I am hoping for is an improvement away from home and a lot more consistency over 90 mins . I think we will play better as aunit without Lukaku but his goals are a lot to replace even with the edition of the massively overated Siggurdson .
I don't think Siggurdson is overrated Deffo overpriced though.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 07, 2017, 03:30:29 PM
How many years ahead of th curve are Sevilla though?

Plus they play in a league where all the teams are very decent at passing in comparison to the PL equivalents.
Don't you think the tactics look the same though, just the names have changed? We are not more direct at all. It was only when Mirallas and Lookman came on we had any attacking ideas.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 07, 2017, 03:49:49 PM
We have just played against a team who have won the Europa League twice in the past few years and are consistently in the top 5 of La Liga. We've not just scraped a draw against Fleetwood. Yes we looked rusty but let's at least wait until half a dozen games in before we pass judgement.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lazarou on August 07, 2017, 04:02:43 PM
I would say it's pretty pointless to make a judgement until we are half way through the season. It is going to take a while to integrate all the new players and play styles. If we get to January and we are stinking the place out then Koeman should rightly come under some scrutiny until then I will give the manager and staff my full support.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 07, 2017, 04:06:41 PM
I would say it's pretty pointless to make a judgement until we are half way through the season. It is going to take a while to integrate all the new players and play styles. If we get to January and we are stinking the place out then Koeman should rightly come under some scrutiny until then I will give the manager and staff my full support.

I think we should have a fair idea before January.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lazarou on August 07, 2017, 04:14:25 PM
I think we should have a fair idea before January.

True, that's just my personal cut off before I turn into a grumpy old twat.

I just hope he can make that team what he wants it to be.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Everton Mint on August 07, 2017, 05:59:25 PM
With the tough start we have to the season I think Koeman will come under pressure well before January.

If we are mid-table and out of the cups it will be well justified.

Our pre-season football has punctured any confidence I had from his signings.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 07, 2017, 06:50:29 PM
With the tough start we have to the season I think Koeman will come under pressure well before January.

If we are mid-table and out of the cups it will be well justified.

Our pre-season football has punctured any confidence I had from his signings.

You were expecting our new signings to be playing free flowing, one touch football, scoring 10 goals a half, were you?

It's unreal the expectations going on here with this new team. It's going to take time for everyone to settle, work out their place in the team and begin to gel. I'm expecting a season like last where we'll perhaps struggle early on, but come on stronger as the season goes on. Particularly with the start we have.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 07, 2017, 06:53:05 PM
With the tough start we have to the season I think Koeman will come under pressure well before January.

If we are mid-table and out of the cups it will be well justified.

Our pre-season football has punctured any confidence I had from his signings.

Which one of the signings have you seen enough of to puncture your confidence in them?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 07, 2017, 06:55:04 PM
You were expecting our new signings to be playing free flowing, one touch football, scoring 10 goals a half, were you?

It's unreal the expectations going on here with this new team. It's going to take time for everyone to settle, work out their place in the team and begin to gel. I'm expecting a season like last where we'll perhaps struggle early on, but come on stronger as the season goes on. Particularly with the start we have.
Not expecting miracles, but a better type of football that we've seen so far. I've seen nothing to get excited about really. It hasn't given me a renewed confidence for this season. All these posts about it'll take 10 games to gel etc. Jesus, that a quarter of the season gone and so will be half the teams in the league by then.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Faceatthefence on August 07, 2017, 07:43:46 PM
He,s probably the right manager for the job because he,s currently our manager.The board have backed him and until his contract ends RK will do his upmost im sure to take us forward on two fronts,first to repay the trust us and the board place in him and secondly to enhance his reputation in the global world.You could add he,s not acheived much as a coach but his stock would be totally shot if he spunks 200 million and ends up like bobby brown shoes..
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Everton Mint on August 07, 2017, 07:46:59 PM
Which one of the signings have you seen enough of to puncture your confidence in them?


Read my post. I said the signings are good, its our football that has disappointed.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 07, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Not expecting miracles, but a better type of football that we've seen so far. I've seen nothing to get excited about really. It hasn't given me a renewed confidence for this season. All these posts about it'll take 10 games to gel etc. Jesus, that a quarter of the season gone and so will be half the teams in the league by then.

Yes. That's right. This will be a season of transition. We'll finish at least 7th though, and may have a crack at a cup once we're bedded in more.

The other option was buying two or three players to replace the few players who have left and perhaps playing a more cohesive brand of football at first, but ultimately struggling long term due to lack of squad depth.

So which would you choose?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Everton Mint on August 07, 2017, 08:16:40 PM
Something that is bothering me that happened a lot last season and is still going on in pre-season has been our poor first halfs.

So many times subs are needed to bring about some intensity and we start to have a go late in the game.

Home games can be like this, but mostly the aways. We havent led away at HT for 27 games !

Koeman needs to address this.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: everton1952 on August 07, 2017, 08:27:04 PM
Somewhere else, someone said the Shite peppered the opposition goal with shots in a recent friendly, whereas we seem to manage a couple of shots in each half. The writer passed it off as maybe down to a contrast of styles. Maybe, but I know which I prefer, which is a style which does not go sideways and backwards with shots on goal a rarity, and long distance shots non existent. It was said that it would take a while to wean current players away from the Martinez sideways and backwards passing. It is a worry that in that respect there has not been not a great deal of change up to the end of last season. We were surely the only team where a free kick in the opponent's half regularly ended up being passed back to our keeper.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on August 07, 2017, 08:31:14 PM
A thread full of overreactions and unrealistic expectations.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Everton Mint on August 07, 2017, 08:59:32 PM
A thread full of overreactions and unrealistic expectations.

Like disappointment and hope for some half-decent football...
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 07, 2017, 09:11:38 PM
A thread full of overreactions and unrealistic expectations.

And pre-season literally ended yesterday.

People are mental.

Someone mentioned that being able to watch pre-season games is actually a negative. I completely agree.

It's certainly brought out the crazies earlier than usual.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 07, 2017, 09:13:26 PM
Like disappointment and hope for some half-decent football...

In pre-season?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Everton Mint on August 07, 2017, 09:54:08 PM
Europa isnt pre-season when they scraped past the 3rd best team in Slovakia.

We knew when these games were going to happen months ago and shouldve been ready.

As for pre-season, its a week to the PL and we were clueless yesterday.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 08, 2017, 12:10:10 AM
Europa isnt pre-season when they scraped past the 3rd best team in Slovakia.

We knew when these games were going to happen months ago and shouldve been ready.

As for pre-season, its a week to the PL and we were clueless yesterday.

And yet we're through to the next round having won two games and conceded no goals.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on August 08, 2017, 12:18:45 AM
And yet we're through to the next round having won two games and conceded no goals.

Was you happy with the football played?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: TheRam on August 08, 2017, 12:25:42 AM
Was you happy with the football played?

It's fucking pre season

What exactly do you expect?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Major Clanger on August 08, 2017, 12:26:29 AM
We knew when these games were going to happen months ago and shouldve been ready.

How?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 08, 2017, 12:33:11 AM
Was you happy with the football played?
Do we want to win or play pretty football?

Sometimes they dovetail, sometimes they don't. I wanna win personally
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on August 08, 2017, 12:44:10 AM
Was you happy with the football played?

Frankly, I couldn't give a shit about the football played in pre season. As for those two games, there was only one thing that was important... the result. I'd rather play crap than win than play pretty and lose.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: School of Science on August 08, 2017, 12:48:56 AM
Wins bring confidence, confidence brings better football, it will take time for all of these new players to gel. Want to see Sigurdsson, a very good striker with pace and another defender, then I feel we will be ready.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 08, 2017, 01:02:44 AM
Europa isnt pre-season when they scraped past the 3rd best team in Slovakia.

We knew when these games were going to happen months ago and shouldve been ready.

As for pre-season, its a week to the PL and we were clueless yesterday.
So you think we'd be better off over the season if Koeman said "no holidays this summer lads, we start early"?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on August 08, 2017, 01:09:43 AM
Wins bring confidence, confidence brings better football, it will take time for all of these new players to gel. Want to see Sigurdsson, a very good striker with pace and another defender, then I feel we will be ready.

Very good strikers with pace cost 80m+ so I doubt we'll be getting one of them, unfortunately.

Although yes, I would like a fast attacker somewhere as an option.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 08, 2017, 01:15:08 AM
How much would Vardy cost? go get him.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: School of Science on August 08, 2017, 01:28:01 AM
Very good strikers with pace cost 80m+ so I doubt we'll be getting one of them, unfortunately.

Although yes, I would like a fast attacker somewhere as an option.

Vardy won't be 80m take him for his speed, workrate and goals all day and could be available due to Leicester signing Iniacho.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Escla on August 08, 2017, 01:30:23 AM
Vardy won't be 80m take him for his speed, workrate and goals all day and could be available due to Leicester signing Iniacho.

Probably around the 35 m mark
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on August 08, 2017, 01:35:13 AM
Vardy won't be 80m take him for his speed, workrate and goals all day and could be available due to Leicester signing Iniacho.
Speed for a while, maybe.

Work rate, yes.

But goals is very questionable. That season 2 years ago is an anomaly in his career I think.

While he's the same age as Giroud etc. That type of player can still be effective for a good number of years due to game intelligence. Whereas if Vardy's speed goes, there's only work rate.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: gizzblue on August 08, 2017, 01:38:48 AM
Martinez had them playing pretty and also fucking useless football .....me id take ugly wins all day. ....fuck what it looks like till they gel together.. ...and let's see how good the shite pepper anybody when Cuntinho fucks off 😅😅
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 08, 2017, 01:53:22 AM
The shite always seem to drop lucky when replacing their bezzy's..
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 08, 2017, 02:31:09 AM
We've already shown we're rinsable with the Sig transfer. Next club we come calling at will get a few more digits on the number of whatever player we enquire about.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Brownie on August 08, 2017, 03:09:47 AM
Was you happy with the football played?

Initially, when a team signs a number of new players the important thing is winning. That is what breeds confidence and allows players to play with confidence which will then bring the performances. The important thing about those Europa games was winning, which we did. Ok it wasn't pretty but it is a win and for some of our players that was their first experience of a European tie. This is the second year of a (at the moment), three year plan. Year 1 targets have been met - improve position and points tally, bring stability and get rid of dead wood. Year 2 is going to be more of a transition year into what Koeman wants from his team.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Escla on August 08, 2017, 03:33:36 AM
The shite always seem to drop lucky when replacing their bezzy's..
Such as ?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mally on August 08, 2017, 03:41:57 AM
I believe that the players signed for this season are really good signings... Pickford will be pushing for the England no1 position. Keane is probably the best young English centre back. Klaassen may take time to adjust to a new team/country/league but from what I've seen he is very neat and tidy on the ball. Sandro looks like he could score some goals, maybe not to the amount Lukaku scored but he will score. I think once he gets a run of games Rooney will come good too. If we manage to get Sigurdsson in then that will help make us more of a threat going forward. It may take time for the team to gel but I do think that we do have a decent starting 11 compared to when Koeman took over.

I do rate Koeman as a manager, he's not afraid to say it as it is and if he's sufficiently backed then we will see progress. I'm not expecting to finish top 2 or challenge for the title but if we finished 4th/5th/6th and won a cup, (maybe Europa league or FA Cup) then that is going in the right direction.

I haven't read the whole thread but why do you not think Koeman is a good enough manager for Everton?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kramer0 on August 08, 2017, 03:44:29 AM
We need to be able to scrap for results when we play terribly if we want to win a cup.

If we find ourselves needing to do it in every round... that's a different story.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Polledreng on August 08, 2017, 03:52:59 AM
We've already shown we're rinsable with the Sig transfer. Next club we come calling at will get a few more digits on the number of whatever player we enquire about.
yes we really have looked stupid. We just payed what They demanded and added a further 5 mill... Missed the pressconference when he was announced
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: D15TIN on August 08, 2017, 03:57:45 AM
I like Koeman, he's done what was expected of him so far- if he gets his 3 more players he wants by the end of the window, we can truly judge him at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 08, 2017, 06:09:09 AM
Such as ?
Alonso,Masherano,Torres,Suarez that horrible little bleeder they lost to City, probably missed a few but they were good players for them to lose although Torres had such a mard on by the end he was best gone, but overall they kept the level they were at, hopefully they won't get over Conthinio though, if he goes...
Title: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 08, 2017, 07:56:32 AM
Alonso,Masherano,Torres,Suarez that horrible little bleeder they lost to City, probably missed a few but they were good players for them to lose although Torres had such a mard on by the end he was best gone, but overall they kept the level they were at, hopefully they won't get over Conthinio though, if he goes...
They haven't really though? Failing to keep their best players due to serial dickhead managers (FACT lol) is the main reason they've gone from being part of the "big four" with CL every year to something like top four twice in 8 years I think it was? Players left cause they didn't want to play with that perennial bottler Gerrard. Well except the little overrated hand flapping mong.. they only really got top 4 last year due to Arsenals 20 yr lucky streak breaking and Jose deciding it was better to win an actual trophy and get group CL this year.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 08, 2017, 03:21:54 PM
Somewhere else, someone said the Shite peppered the opposition goal with shots in a recent friendly, whereas we seem to manage a couple of shots in each half. The writer passed it off as maybe down to a contrast of styles. Maybe, but I know which I prefer, which is a style which does not go sideways and backwards with shots on goal a rarity, and long distance shots non existent. It was said that it would take a while to wean current players away from the Martinez sideways and backwards passing. It is a worry that in that respect there has not been not a great deal of change up to the end of last season. We were surely the only team where a free kick in the opponent's half regularly ended up being passed back to our keeper.
I agree and pre season is the same.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on August 08, 2017, 03:32:40 PM
They haven't really though? Failing to keep their best players due to serial dickhead managers (FACT lol) is the main reason they've gone from being part of the "big four" with CL every year to something like top four twice in 8 years I think it was? Players left cause they didn't want to play with that perennial bottler Gerrard. Well except the little overrated hand flapping mong.. they only really got top 4 last year due to Arsenals 20 yr lucky streak breaking and Jose deciding it was better to win an actual trophy and get group CL this year.

I disagree. They got into the Top 4 last season because they deserved to (taking our hatred out of the equation for a second). They were in the title race upto the post-Christmas meltdown after Mane left, and had the best record of all the Top 6 against the rest of the Top 6. They're a very good side, and Coutinho isn't that consistent. They'd get over it, if he left imo.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on August 08, 2017, 03:50:44 PM
I disagree. They got into the Top 4 last season because they deserved to (taking our hatred out of the equation for a second). They were in the title race upto the post-Christmas meltdown after Mane left, and had the best record of all the Top 6 against the rest of the Top 6. They're a very good side, and Coutinho isn't that consistent. They'd get over it, if he left imo.

I'm terrified of them this year, still think they'll get what they want in the window too.

2 finals and fourth isn't bad, I expect them to win silverware and come inside the top4 this year.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 08, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
I believe that the players signed for this season are really good signings... Pickford will be pushing for the England no1 position. Keane is probably the best young English centre back. Klaassen may take time to adjust to a new team/country/league but from what I've seen he is very neat and tidy on the ball. Sandro looks like he could score some goals, maybe not to the amount Lukaku scored but he will score. I think once he gets a run of games Rooney will come good too. If we manage to get Sigurdsson in then that will help make us more of a threat going forward. It may take time for the team to gel but I do think that we do have a decent starting 11 compared to when Koeman took over.

I do rate Koeman as a manager, he's not afraid to say it as it is and if he's sufficiently backed then we will see progress. I'm not expecting to finish top 2 or challenge for the title but if we finished 4th/5th/6th and won a cup, (maybe Europa league or FA Cup) then that is going in the right direction.

I haven't read the whole thread but why do you not think Koeman is a good enough manager for Everton?

The signings are just average and we have paid over the odds for everyone bar Sandro . Despite the out lay it will be a case of hoping for a better cup run and inch up a place in the league . Fine margins .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: BlueBeagle on August 08, 2017, 04:46:44 PM
The signings are just average and we have paid over the odds for everyone bar Sandro . Despite the out lay it will be a case of hoping for a better cup run and inch up a place in the league . Fine margins .

We've paid the going rate in a mad market. What do you suggest we should have done?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 08, 2017, 05:33:07 PM
The signings are just average and we have paid over the odds for everyone bar Sandro . Despite the out lay it will be a case of hoping for a better cup run and inch up a place in the league . Fine margins .


There is very little value in a market if you're a Premier League side with pots of cash. I'm hoping our increased scope and resources in scouting will pay dividends over the next few years so we don't have to go and pay 30m for potential anymore. We had to do what we had to do in the short term to remain on the coat tails of the top 6.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 08, 2017, 06:21:51 PM
There is very little value in a market if you're a Premier League side with pots of cash. I'm hoping our increased scope and resources in scouting will pay dividends over the next few years so we don't have to go and pay 30m for potential anymore. We had to do what we had to do in the short term to remain on the coat tails of the top 6.

I agree and as a result the figure we have spent seem to increase optimism for some purely as we appear big spenders . No one we have signed will make a dent in the top 4 . If we get rid of Barkley it will be at an inflated price as we did Lukaku then I suppose it balances out . Just leaves me feeling apathetic towards the game when we are breaking the club record for Siggurdson and forking out 30 mil for a goalkeeper who got a back injury picking the ball out of the net so often . Still thats the game now I suppose .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lxxx on August 08, 2017, 06:35:00 PM
I agree and as a result the figure we have spent seem to increase optimism for some purely as we appear big spenders . No one we have signed will make a dent in the top 4 . If we get rid of Barkley it will be at an inflated price as we did Lukaku then I suppose it balances out . Just leaves me feeling apathetic towards the game when we are breaking the club record for Siggurdson and forking out 30 mil for a goalkeeper who got a back injury picking the ball out of the net so often . Still thats the game now I suppose .


True.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on August 08, 2017, 06:55:17 PM
At least he won't be picking the ball out of the net so often!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on August 08, 2017, 07:27:00 PM
At least he won't be picking the ball out of the net so often!

One would like to think so but that season at Sunderland could have left him shot to fuck . We will see .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on August 08, 2017, 07:53:09 PM
I disagree. They got into the Top 4 last season because they deserved to (taking our hatred out of the equation for a second). They were in the title race upto the post-Christmas meltdown after Mane left, and had the best record of all the Top 6 against the rest of the Top 6. They're a very good side, and Coutinho isn't that consistent. They'd get over it, if he left imo.

They were a very good attacking side. They were not a very good defensive side. United drew a raft of games they should probably have won, and they pipped Arsenal by a single point. It was very fine margins on getting 4th. OK, taking the bias out they did get the points and so do deserve the place, but the main point of my post was to refute the idea that they are constantly lucky with selling their big players, when they are the main losers of City and Spurs joining the fight for top four every season. Mane is very good, but Coutinho is key to unlocking tricky defences and if they lose him as the league starts they may well find replacing him with comparable simply isn't possible. In that case I would expect they will continue to have high scoring games, but fall short in the long run of the season.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on August 08, 2017, 08:05:39 PM
They'll keep coutinho and add VVD no question in my mind
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 08, 2017, 08:26:20 PM
They'll keep coutinho and add VVD no question in my mind

They will win the league if VVD goes to them
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lincs Toffee on August 08, 2017, 08:35:45 PM
They will win the league if VVD goes to them
I'm not so sure Liz, think they will do the same as last year and burn themselves out in the latter half of the season, here's hoping anyway!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 08, 2017, 08:37:48 PM
I'm not so sure Liz, think they will do the same as last year and burn themselves out in the latter half of the season, here's hoping anyway!

I just feel that they need a good defender as a last piece of the puzzle (prob a keeper too)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: TheRam on August 08, 2017, 08:39:54 PM
They will win the league if VVD goes to them

No chance.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 08, 2017, 08:40:17 PM
Think cl footy will tire them
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lincs Toffee on August 08, 2017, 08:40:17 PM
I just feel that they need a good defender as a last piece of the puzzle (prob a keeper too)
True but with a knackered attacking line up, (Lallana already out for a couple of months), I think there are still 3 other teams that will be ahead of them towards the end, have to say they do look annoyingly decent in pre-season though.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 08, 2017, 08:52:39 PM
No chance.


I hope not
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Macca77 on August 08, 2017, 08:55:05 PM
There is no chance on earth they will win the league, City, United and Chelsea have all strengthened and are stronger now, shite will struggle to get into the top 4
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: van der Meyde on August 08, 2017, 09:46:33 PM
Two days later and I'm still no closer to being able to answer this question.

There's been a lot of talk about us following the City/Chelsea route, buying established players before making a big push. So, my answer really depends on what we're trying to do and just how much money we actually have available.

If our goal is to establish ourselves as 7th this season, building our profile so that we can attract better players in the future with as-yet-unspent available finance, he's a good fit - but I think we could attract better managers for the next step.

If our goal is to establish ourselves as 7th this season, but won't have the money to really compete financially in the future, I probably don't think he's the right man.

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 09, 2017, 10:28:52 PM
Said all along he's shit, this season is gonna be tragic
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on September 09, 2017, 10:48:19 PM
If the job is a data analyst at WH Smiths, then yes he is and I for one, hopes he gets it

EDIT Milton Keynes Branch
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 09, 2017, 10:59:03 PM
Think he's the opposite of Martinez. He's got all the basics right but not sure he's any imagination or ideas. I'm not convinced he's more than just an okay manager.

Maybe unfairly but I tend to think the likes of rooney klassen and Sigurdsson are on him and the cheaper punts Walsh. If that's the case he's signing proven players who are proven to not quite be good enough (at least in rooneys and Sigurdssons cases) I don't see the potential in koeman. Someone said on the match thread just Moyes with a better playing career. Maybe that's fair. Maybe early Moyes was even better.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 09, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
Think he's the opposite of Martinez. He's got all the basics right but not sure he's any imagination or ideas. I'm not convinced he's more than just an okay manager.

Maybe unfairly but I tend to think the likes of rooney klassen and Sigurdsson are on him and the cheaper punts Walsh. If that's the case he's signing proven players who are proven to not quite be good enough (at least in rooneys and Sigurdssons cases) I don't see the potential in koeman. Someone said on the match thread just Moyes with a better playing career. Maybe that's fair. Maybe early Moyes was even better.

Yes I agree with that, I think people give him more respect as a manager because he was a great player
He's absolutely shit
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: fubarruk on September 09, 2017, 11:09:48 PM
It's not his fault we didn't get a replacement of any kind for Lukaku, it lies with the board. Said it before, they fucked up the single most important task of the summer.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kramer0 on September 09, 2017, 11:11:50 PM
It depends on what the job is.

Is it to safely keep Everton upper mid-table? Then yes, he's the man.

Is it to get us closer to, or even ahead of, the six clubs that are currently better than us? No, barring a sustained run of luck.

We're paying him all of that money, and spending tons on the types of players he wants, for the modern Premier League equivalent of Moyes results. It's a huge waste. We could get a lot more for the amount of money we're willing to spend.

Edit: In retrospect, it's a slightly disturbing that unattached Lucien Favre was on our shortlist but we chose to pay a ton for Koeman instead. We spent more for a manager with an inferior track record. The board needs to stop worrying about this "proven in England" nonsense. The majority of the top-end PL managers, and even players, that we've seen in recent years have come from outside of England. You get less for more when you shop in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 09, 2017, 11:14:18 PM
It's not his fault we didn't get a replacement of any kind for Lukaku, it lies with the board. Said it before, they fucked up the single most important task of the summer.


I think it might be his fault. I think the Sigurdsson thing suggests he's not flexible. I think it dragged on and we paid over the odds because he was utterly insistent we signed him.

I think he's probably very difficult to work with from walshs position.

I don't actually know but certainly wouldn't be convinced the problems in the market have nothing to do with him
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 09, 2017, 11:14:41 PM
I'm willing to give him time, I just hope sooner rather than later he can get the team to gel and play the way he wants them to play, whatever that may be.

However, no manager in the history of Everton Football Club has been blessed with such a transfer kitty as Koeman has been provided with. If we don't look like a top 7 side by December then I think he should be off and the club might have to look at how to divide the roles between manager and director of football especially as each manager we seem to bring in have completely different philosophies and require completely different styles of players. Ultimately, what is the club's philosophy regarding football and can we bring in managers who will suit that philosophy. We want to avoid a scenario of having to overhaul the squad each time.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kewns23 on September 09, 2017, 11:15:55 PM
I wouldn't say he's shit, he's just not spectacular.

I do worry why he didn't buy any players with pace ??
I think that will be his downfall I also notice he never accepts any faults he tends to blame players more
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 09, 2017, 11:18:50 PM
I know people are dead against it but I want unsworth to be our next manager. Of course he'd be a risk but we simply can't get proven risk free and of the quality needed

Attacking, good man manager, vibrant young. I'd take the risk.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on September 09, 2017, 11:21:28 PM
I know people are dead against it but I want unsworth to be our next manager. Of course he'd be a risk but we simply can't get proven risk free and of the quality needed

Attacking, good man manager, vibrant young. I'd take the risk.

I'd throw the towel in I think
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kewns23 on September 09, 2017, 11:22:57 PM
I know people are dead against it but I want unsworth to be our next manager. Of course he'd be a risk but we simply can't get proven risk free and of the quality needed

Attacking, good man manager, vibrant young. I'd take the risk.


Me too if it all goes Pete tong with the Dutchman then I'd be all for giving him a temp.

However lets hope Ron can turn it round
It was/is a tough start too season. Give him a benifits of doubt
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on September 09, 2017, 11:23:19 PM
Is it me or do I remember Southampton being kind of exciting before he took over, even before Pochettino.  Since then they have become the poster boys for bland middle of the road football but safe.  I hope he dosn't leave us with that legacy if that is all he turns out to be!   
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blueToffee on September 09, 2017, 11:24:13 PM
Tuchel still available?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 09, 2017, 11:32:12 PM
The doubts continue to mount up.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blueToffee on September 09, 2017, 11:32:52 PM
The worst thing he's done for me is broken what was working for us last season. We brought in Davies and we found a good balance in midfield energy wise. With the players we've brought in we now look really ponderous. Klassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson together? I don't get the thinking there.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Tinga on September 09, 2017, 11:32:54 PM
I'm getting that Martinez vibe from him. Just hope it doesn't take as long as it took to get of Roberto as it does for Koeman.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kramer0 on September 09, 2017, 11:34:21 PM
Tuchel still available?

Yes, he's unattached.

I imagine he'll be an unpopular name given how young he is and how Dortmund only finished 3rd in his last season there but I still think he's great. If we could have hired him at any time in the past five years - when Moyes left or when Martinez left - he would have been my #1 choice. He had two very good seasons, playing two different styles, with a seriously under-resourced Mainz, and had Dortmund humming before the team was picked apart (disagreements about the players who replaced those outgoing transfers are supposedly a big part of why he left after just two seasons).

He'd be worth the risk, in my opinion. Whether he'd actually come here is another question entirely.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Brownie on September 09, 2017, 11:36:40 PM
I know people are dead against it but I want unsworth to be our next manager. Of course he'd be a risk but we simply can't get proven risk free and of the quality needed

Attacking, good man manager, vibrant young. I'd take the risk.

As much as I love Rhino that would be a disaster. He needs to get some proper managerial experience before he is anywhere near a job like Everton.

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: charlatan on September 09, 2017, 11:41:06 PM
I honestly think he must have been let down by the board at the end of the window as @fubarruk (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=413) says.  He stressed how many times about the striker and centre half.

If his plan all summer was to sign 4 number 10's with nobody to play in front, he must be a raving madman.

Would it be cynical of me to suggest that we were waiting for the sales of Barkley, Niasse and McCarthy to fund these?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 09, 2017, 11:43:45 PM
Can anyone tell me what our plan is with the ball, and what our pattern of play is to attempt to break teams down?

(over a season into the job)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kramer0 on September 09, 2017, 11:45:15 PM
Can anyone tell me what our plan is with the ball, and what our pattern of play is to attempt to break teams down?

(over a season into the job)

Play the ball over the top or cross it for Lukaku.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: sam of the south on September 09, 2017, 11:49:38 PM
Can anyone tell me what our plan is with the ball, and what our pattern of play is to attempt to break teams down?

(over a season into the job)

It seems to be to get the ball to full-backs that can't/arent very good at getting forward that can't cross it into a striker that isn't there.

It also seems to be to pass the ball sporadically, and ponderously around, whilst nobody moves for the player on the ball.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 09, 2017, 11:56:54 PM
It depends on what the job is.

Is it to safely keep Everton upper mid-table? Then yes, he's the man.

Is it to get us closer to, or even ahead of, the six clubs that are currently better than us? No, barring a sustained run of luck.

We're paying him all of that money, and spending tons on the types of players he wants, for the modern Premier League equivalent of Moyes results. It's a huge waste. We could get a lot more for the amount of money we're willing to spend.

Edit: In retrospect, it's a slightly disturbing that unattached Lucien Favre was on our shortlist but we chose to pay a ton for Koeman instead. We spent more for a manager with an inferior track record. The board needs to stop worrying about this "proven in England" nonsense. The majority of the top-end PL managers, and even players, that we've seen in recent years have come from outside of England. You get less for more when you shop in the Premier League.

That's the budget he is working with so any manager would struggle to make an impact on the teams above us unless we show real ambition.


His results are worse than Moyes's. Just like every manager we've had since Moyes.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 12:03:19 AM
I'm getting that Martinez vibe from him. Just hope it doesn't take as long as it took to get of Roberto as it does for Koeman.
At least we played some great attacking football under Martinez but we were shit at the back, now we're shit at the back and awful going forwards too
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 12:04:15 AM
Edit: In retrospect, it's a slightly disturbing that unattached Lucien Favre was on our shortlist but we chose to pay a ton for Koeman instead. We spent more for a manager with an inferior track record. The board needs to stop worrying about this "proven in England" nonsense. The majority of the top-end PL managers, and even players, that we've seen in recent years have come from outside of England. You get less for more when you shop in the Premier League.

Just curious on this one aspect because, at the time of the brown-shoes imposter getting sacked, I did research some of the managers we were linked with and remember being excited about this one. Did he not reject us because a firm offer came in from Nice whilst we were still debating on potential candidates?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 12:07:39 AM
That's the budget he is working with so any manager would struggle to make an impact on the teams above us unless we show real ambition.


His results are worse than Moyes's. Just like every manager we've had since Moyes.

It's not even about making an impact on what happens above us, we're going backwards massively and the team looks a mess with no direction
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kramer0 on September 10, 2017, 12:20:25 AM
Am I the only one who hated the attacking play in Martinez's last two seasons?

I thought lumping it to Lukaku was actually an improvement.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 12:21:13 AM
It's not even about making an impact on what happens above us, we're going backwards massively and the team looks a mess with no direction

I'll have you a bet we finish top half. Any amount of money you like (within reason)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 12:21:59 AM
Can anyone tell me what our plan is with the ball, and what our pattern of play is to attempt to break teams down?

(over a season into the job)

Someone might be able to tell you, Koeman won't because he doesn't know himself the joke
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 12:22:41 AM
Am I the only one who hated the attacking play in Martinez's last two seasons?

I thought lumping it to Lukaku was actually an improvement.

Yeah it was shite. His attacking play was just to keep it and hope

I'd actually be happy for us to sign crouch now and play long ball. Least that's a complete system of play we'd have the elements for. We seem to not have the squad to play any style at the moment
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 12:23:13 AM
I'll have you a bet we finish top half. Any amount of money you like (within reason)

I'll bet you any amount you want that we finish below where we finished last year
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 12:30:09 AM
Am I the only one who hated the attacking play in Martinez's last two seasons?

I thought lumping it to Lukaku was actually an improvement.

Probably because Lukaku was / is a great striker, it'd be a terrible style of play with a poor striker
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 10, 2017, 12:34:43 AM
Am I the only one who hated the attacking play in Martinez's last two seasons?

Everything about his play was abysmal, front and back.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 12:35:44 AM
You know we're fucked when you're left debating the relative merits of trying to sideways pass our way up to Lukaku, vs playing direct balls in to Lukaku, when the key point is we no longer have anything close to a Lukaku :(
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 10, 2017, 12:39:58 AM
You know we're fucked when you're left debating the relative merits of trying to sideways pass our way up to Lukaku, vs playing direct balls in to Lukaku, when the key point is we no longer have anything close to a Lukaku :(

Let's not forget that we're now using Martinez as a measure of success.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Simon Paul on September 10, 2017, 12:41:27 AM
what were the tactics today?

does anyone know?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 10, 2017, 12:43:46 AM
I'll have you a bet we finish top half. Any amount of money you like (within reason)
I'll have you a bet we finish top hal
I'll have you a bet we finish top half. Any amount of money you like (within reason)
I'll have you a bet we finish top half. Any amount of money you like (within reason)
f. Any amount of money you like (within reason)

To be fair you only have to win once every three weeks to fin
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: sam of the south on September 10, 2017, 12:44:46 AM
what were the tactics today?

does anyone know?


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170909/83f97d47450c04fffa63dc3e749f624a.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: kewns23 on September 10, 2017, 12:50:02 AM
Play loads of players in middle of park lol

It's been poor however koeman does have a track record he was like this at Southampton, he still got them top 7/8

He wasn't my choice because I just don't se anything spectacular in him but we have to give him and the squad time.
Asses in Jan and then end of season
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 12:57:50 AM
what were the tactics today?

does anyone know?
Ask bullshit Ronnie., but he'd only say ask the players.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Cozzie on September 10, 2017, 01:03:05 AM
Still think he should be given this season at least.

Its just utterly baffling how much we have spent to look as bad as we do though.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Simon Paul on September 10, 2017, 01:07:21 AM
Still think he should be given this season at least.

Its just utterly baffling how much we have spent to look as bad as we do though.

don't think there's many calling for him to be sacked, to be fair

we are so difficult to watch at times though
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2017, 01:07:43 AM
He was 100% let down by the board, he couldn't have stressed enough what he wanted and they failed to deliver.

That said he's not reacting well and similar to the start of last year I'm kind of bored watching the shite football we're serving up and confused over what we're trying to do exactly.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bacon sarnie on September 10, 2017, 01:11:58 AM
Moyes Martinez Koeman out!

 :Horse:
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 01:14:40 AM
Moyes Martinez Koeman out!

 :Horse:

Moyes was the best manager we've had for many years
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 01:15:06 AM
I'll bet you any amount you want that we finish below where we finished last year

500 quid top 8?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 01:16:58 AM
He was 100% let down by the board, he couldn't have stressed enough what he wanted and they failed to deliver.

That said he's not reacting well and similar to the start of last year I'm kind of bored watching the shite football we're serving up and confused over what we're trying to do exactly.

I really don't think he's as flexible as you're implying. I don't imagine Walsh had free reign to pick a striker. I think he's very set in terms of who he wants when it comes to the bigger more proven signings. Maybe the striker he wanted came from a club who saw how much Swansea took the piss out of us
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 01:20:18 AM
500 quid top 8?

Free money, done 8)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 01:20:29 AM
The usual spattering of ridiculously over the top remarks given that we did well, without being spectacular, last year and this year were only just into the season with a load of new players who haven't even played much together so far.

Re patterns of play, it's not a surprise that things are disjointed when we've got a whole new attack.

I wasn't happy with the balance today in that we needed a physical presence but it's not so easy in reality to not play players who you've just signed.

It's not easy to settle players into these types of game and we played too many against a tough opponent.

Re a lack of ideas, tactically, id say it's the opposite.

He's trying different things each game, I presume in an attempt to squeeze out more than just the base parts, but at the moment it's not working due to a combination of opposition, new players and bad ideas.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 01:22:13 AM
Free money, done 8)

Will be for MLT
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bogie on September 10, 2017, 01:23:49 AM
what were the tactics today?

does anyone know?

bobby dolittle knows them well

that great set up that won us 6 homes games under his last year
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 01:24:20 AM
We've got to give managers time to prove they are shit, unfortunately Ronnie seems to be hurrying that process.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 01:25:35 AM
Will be for MLT

7th might look impossible by the time January gets here judging by the state of us so far
First we need to sell to buy
Then we've got to try and convince someone to come who's gonna improve the team and score goals.
I'm very confident that this dude has just given me 5 ton
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bogie on September 10, 2017, 01:28:58 AM
7th might look impossible by the time January gets here judging by the state of us so far
First we need to sell to buy
Then we've got to try and convince someone to come who's gonna improve the team and score goals.
I'm very confident that this dude has just given me 5 ton

not about time you logged off and let the other guy on Defeatist

you 2 would be great on BGT

tell me witch one has the hand up is arse
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 01:35:24 AM
7th might look impossible by the time January gets here judging by the state of us so far
First we need to sell to buy
Then we've got to try and convince someone to come who's gonna improve the team and score goals.
I'm very confident that this dude has just given me 5 ton

I'm very confident you'll be looking a mug come Christmas
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 01:39:00 AM
I'm very confident you'll be looking a mug come Christmas

Really? What have you seen so far to make you think that?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 01:39:36 AM
not about time you logged off and let the other guy on Defeatist

you 2 would be great on BGT

tell me witch one has the hand up is arse

I am Defeatist you dummy
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 01:40:01 AM
not about time you logged off and let the other guy on Defeatist

you 2 would be great on BGT

tell me witch one has the hand up is arse

Lolzer. This is funny coming from me as another new member, yet I was reading for a long time beforehand.

Unless I am mistaken "Realist" got his name changed into 'Defeatist', and for whatever reason you wish to believe the moderators have now restored his original chosen name ;)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 10, 2017, 01:41:18 AM
Fuck me, a poster with an alter-ego.

NSNO does Me, Myself & Irene.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 01:42:59 AM
I am Defeatist you dummy

Are you in a good enough mood to confess to being "Martip", I've already been arguing with others about this but I promise this is the one and only time I will ask!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 01:43:00 AM
Really? What have you seen so far to make you think that?

First half v City and the first leg v Split showed how good we can be when it all clicks, add to the fact we've got players to return and 5-10 games down the line we will be looking much healthier

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bogie on September 10, 2017, 01:48:53 AM
I am Defeatist you dummy

no shit Sherlock

we can all see your a Defeatist

anyway answer the question how did Liverpool get on today
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 10, 2017, 01:52:19 AM
 
He was 100% let down by the board, he couldn't have stressed enough what he wanted and they failed to deliver.

That said he's not reacting well and similar to the start of last year I'm kind of bored watching the shite football we're serving up and confused over what we're trying to do exactly.
Agree and I do have numerous concerns but I'm trying to stay positive.

How many teams will have 7 new players in the starting line up and look good. I don't think there's even an example in recent years for comparison. And 10 of the 11 only at the club a year? Cohesion is such an unquantifiable aspect of the game but it's fundamental to any team and takes months/years to instil. He needs time. The fact Martinez bought utter dross has stitched us up and gave us zero continuity. The few decent players Koeman he inherited were/are ageing. Can't see it getting better anytime soon as next summer we'll need replacements for Baines, Jags, Lukaku etc...plus with so many incomings this summer there will inevitably be a couple of flops. Its not helped by the market going crazy and adding pressure when you see how much money we've spent.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bogie on September 10, 2017, 01:53:43 AM
First half v City and the first leg v Split showed how good we can be when it all clicks, add to the fact we've got players to return and 5-10 games down the line we will be looking much healthier



16 halfs 2 good ones lol we would need 11 players coming back in 1 weeks time
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2017, 02:01:27 AM
The usual spattering of ridiculously over the top remarks given that we did well, without being spectacular, last year and this year were only just into the season with a load of new players who haven't even played much together so far.

Re patterns of play, it's not a surprise that things are disjointed when we've got a whole new attack.

I wasn't happy with the balance today in that we needed a physical presence but it's not so easy in reality to not play players who you've just signed.

It's not easy to settle players into these types of game and we played too many against a tough opponent.

Re a lack of ideas, tactically, id say it's the opposite.

He's trying different things each game, I presume in an attempt to squeeze out more than just the base parts, but at the moment it's not working due to a combination of opposition, new players and bad ideas.

I agree that some of the stuff is a bit over the top.

Would you say that you're convinced by Koeman so far? No doubts creeping in?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 02:08:45 AM
I agree that some of the stuff is a bit over the top.

Would you say that you're convinced by Koeman so far? No doubts creeping in?

Re being solid and generally ok, no.

Re finding some magic formula that gets us 75 points per season, I've not seen that in his record previously but he's far from clueless or any comparison with Martinez for example.

As I said, I think he's trying to be over clever some times (Stoke) and he's obviously struggling to get his message across re aggressive play given the number of times he feels the need to make subs at half time.

However no manager is helped by not signing a player who is crucial to how you want to play.

Add in the fact that we're 4 games in, 3 of which have been very difficult along with the new players and I'm not prepared to be overly dramatic about things.

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:10:22 AM
Are you in a good enough mood to confess to being "Martip", I've already been arguing with others about this but I promise this is the one and only time I will ask!

No I'm not Martip
I joined as Realist then was renamed as Defeatist by the mods now I've been given my name back
Out of curiosity where did these arguments take place?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:16:17 AM
no shit Sherlock

we can all see your a Defeatist

anyway answer the question how did Liverpool get on today

You're really dull, at least others who have a go have something about them (well one or two) but you - zero. I've purposely ignored your last few posts because I can't be arsed corresponding with you, so enjoy this reply as it'll be the last one you get from me
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:20:52 AM
First half v City and the first leg v Split showed how good we can be when it all clicks, add to the fact we've got players to return and 5-10 games down the line we will be looking much healthier

I laughed at that, you're optimistic because of the fact we played alright against a pub team? Haha you like many are easily pleased
Players to return? Who?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:23:16 AM
Lolzer. This is funny coming from me as another new member, yet I was reading for a long time beforehand.

Unless I am mistaken "Realist" got his name changed into 'Defeatist', and for whatever reason you wish to believe the moderators have now restored his original chosen name ;)

Possibly because most things I said are true. Is Nostradamus available as a user name? Or captain obvious? Because it was clear to see what was gonna happen during and now after that pathetic transfer window
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: D_murph0278 on September 10, 2017, 02:24:10 AM
The signing of Martina, no cover at left back for 4 months of the season,  spending most of our budget on 3 players that play in the same position (Klassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson), spending most of the transfer window chasing Sigurdsson when the priority was always signing a replacement for Lukaku, not signing a replacement for Lukaku, no pace whatsoever in the side, potentially ruining Davies' breakthrough season and unbelievable qualities for the sake of Klassen and publicly slating Barkley and killing the relationship with someone who should have been an boyhood everton star for years to come!
I have my doubts......
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Macca77 on September 10, 2017, 02:25:37 AM
Question for the Koeman doubters, who do you want then?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ross on September 10, 2017, 02:29:15 AM
Question for the Koeman doubters, who do you want then?

Who knows but I'm sure we could tempt a lot better with our managerial budget don't you think?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: D_murph0278 on September 10, 2017, 02:29:30 AM
Question for the Koeman doubters, who do you want then?

I want Koeman to get it right. The fact so many are doubting him at the moment is because he's left himself wide open with poor decisions in the most important transfer window we've ever had and his team selections.
People aren't daft.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:31:22 AM
Who knows but I'm sure we could tempt a lot better with our managerial budget don't you think?

Managerial budget as in the wages we pay the manager or transfer funds?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 02:34:08 AM
No I'm not Martip
I joined as Realist then was renamed as Defeatist by the mods now I've been given my name back
Out of curiosity where did these arguments take place?

I'll be fair to you mate because I've mellowed on you now (Yeah, you're so thrilled, I know).

I harassed two moderators directly on the basis I was new anyway, so if they thought i was being uppity I had less to lose than an established member lolol
If you are not Martip he sure seemed inspired by your 'answer a post with a short question' style.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 02:34:19 AM
I laughed at that, you're optimistic because of the fact we played alright against a pub team? Haha you like many are easily pleased
Players to return? Who?

Coleman, Bolasie and Barkley for 3, you utter numbskull. We have a talented squad so yeah I am fucking confident it's all gonna click, or shall we all just be like you and be a miserable cockwomble?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 02:37:37 AM
Possibly because most things I said are true. Is Nostradamus available as a user name? Or captain obvious? Because it was clear to see what was gonna happen during and now after that pathetic transfer window

Proven right so far dog, I look forward (/hope) to see you cheer up when we start doing better. We have a shithouse run of early fixtures but there is every chance we still have enough to prove why we are the proverbial 'best of the rest' and 'stuck against the glass ceiling'.

It only takes one of the top shits to have poor season and we could eek our way through the crack :cheers:
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: D_murph0278 on September 10, 2017, 02:37:45 AM
Coleman, Bolasie and Barkley for 3, you utter numbskull. We have a talented squad so yeah I am fucking confident it's all gonna click, or shall we all just be like you and be a miserable cockwomble?

Coleman and Bolasie aren't going to come back anywhere near the same for at least 6 months. Barkley hates Koeman and is going to Spurs in Jan. Hardly inspiring stuff!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ross on September 10, 2017, 02:42:08 AM
Managerial budget as in the wages we pay the manager or transfer funds?

Both I suppose, but primarily the managers wages.

Look at what his contemporaries earn in comparison, then look at how they set their teams up and the style they implement.

He's fucking light years behind the top coaches, and the worst is he's been given backing beyond anyone we've ever had before. Hes the Dutch Jack Charlton.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:43:16 AM
I'll be fair to you mate because I've mellowed on you now (Yeah, you're so thrilled, I know).

I harassed two moderators directly on the basis I was new anyway, so if they thought i was being uppity I had less to lose than an established member lolol
If you are not Martip he sure seemed inspired by your 'answer a post with a short question' style.

Harrassed two mods about what? If I inspire people then so be it
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 02:45:00 AM
Both I suppose, but primarily the managers wages.

Look at what his contemporaries earn in comparison, then look at how they set their teams up and the style they implement.

He's fucking light years behind the top coaches, and the worst is he's been given backing beyond anyone we've ever had before. Hes the Dutch Jack Charlton.

Why does he have to be the Dutch anyone?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:48:01 AM
Coleman, Bolasie and Barkley for 3, you utter numbskull. We have a talented squad so yeah I am fucking confident it's all gonna click, or shall we all just be like you and be a miserable cockwomble?

Don't be angry bruv I'm not calling you names am I?

Are they all gonna be firing on all cylinders by Christmas? Will they even play by the time Christmas gets here?
Also don't pin too many hopes on Barkley. - his head is elsewhere and big Ron's ego means we might not even see him in an Everton top again
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:49:11 AM
Both I suppose, but primarily the managers wages.

Look at what his contemporaries earn in comparison, then look at how they set their teams up and the style they implement.

He's fucking light years behind the top coaches, and the worst is he's been given backing beyond anyone we've ever had before. Hes the Dutch Jack Charlton.

Yep spot on
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 02:49:44 AM
Harrassed two mods about what? If I inspire people then so be it

Chill man, I'm an open book. I asked two of them to run an IP address check because I was obssessed with proving you and Martip were one and the same. I even went as far as to suggest that you might be sad enough to have two different internet access points (and thus IP addresses) to make linking the two accounts impossible.

I'm willing to admit my unhealthly obssessions, are you? You must get a kick out of carrying on an argument with your fellows?

I think the next step of your evolution from the NSNO miserly git is joining in the more social areas of the board. I'm sure everyone will delight in hearing your input in the 'General Forum' lolol
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:49:52 AM
Why does he have to be the Dutch anyone?

Well he can't be French can he?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:52:24 AM
Chill man, I'm an open book. I asked two of them to run an IP address check because I was obssessed with proving you and Martip were one and the same. I even went as far as to suggest that you might be sad enough to have two different internet access points (and thus IP addresses) to make linking the two accounts impossible.

I'm willing to admit my unhealthly obssessions, are you? You must get a kick out of carrying on an argument with your fellows?

I think the next step of your evolution from the NSNO miserly git is joining in the more social areas of the board. I'm sure everyone will delight in hearing your input in the 'General Forum' lolol

Did they run the IP address? I hope so because I'm not guilty
I'm not carrying on arguments? People come at me and I respond, I don't ask them to post what they do
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 02:55:42 AM
Did they run the IP address? I hope so because I'm not guilty
I'm not carrying on arguments? People come at me and I respond, I don't ask them to post what they do

You want to carry this amigo let's do it in private messages, albeit I don't really feel there is much we'll gain by it :-*

Otherwise I am as guilty as you for having our own little half-a-dozen posts in this thread and perhaps this should be the end of it!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Martip on September 10, 2017, 02:56:24 AM
Chill man, I'm an open book. I asked two of them to run an IP address check because I was obssessed with proving you and Martip were one and the same. I even went as far as to suggest that you might be sad enough to have two different internet access points (and thus IP addresses) to make linking the two accounts impossible.

I'm willing to admit my unhealthly obssessions, are you? You must get a kick out of carrying on an argument with your fellows?

I think the next step of your evolution from the NSNO miserly git is joining in the more social areas of the board. I'm sure everyone will delight in hearing your input in the 'General Forum' lolol
Are you kidding me ?

To clarify you assume because 2 people agree on a point or 2 that they are the same poster ? I have to say very odd.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 02:57:06 AM
Don't be angry bruv I'm not calling you names am I?

Are they all gonna be firing on all cylinders by Christmas? Will they even play by the time Christmas gets here?
Also don't pin too many hopes on Barkley. - his head is elsewhere and big Ron's ego means we might not even see him in an Everton top again

Coleman will walk straight in the team, probably play 1-2 U23/behind closed door games beforehand, he's already back in training. Bolasie will be an impact sub till up to speed then will start. Koeman has already stated Ross will be part of the squad and will get game time, even if it just to get him prepped for a move in Jan
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:57:30 AM
You want to carry this amigo let's do it in private messages, albeit I don't really feel there is much we'll gain by it :-*

Otherwise I am as guilty as you for having our own little half-a-dozen posts in this thread and perhaps this should be the end of it!

Carry what? I'm confused, I have more than half a dozen posts in this thread as I created it, I don't really know what you're on about?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 02:58:21 AM
Are you kidding me ?

To clarify you assume because 2 people agree on a point or 2 that they are the same poster ? I have to say very odd.

:titanic:

Mark's tip (geddit). Let's not engage on this subject. My bad, in a reality that the world is flat.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 02:59:25 AM
Are you kidding me ?

To clarify you assume because 2 people agree on a point or 2 that they are the same poster ? I have to say very odd.

Nuts this forum isn't it mate, if you don't agree with them you're either a Liverpool fan, a troll or a duplicate agreeing with yourself haha
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 03:01:46 AM
Carry what? I'm confused, I have more than half a dozen posts in this thread as I created it, I don't really know what you're on about?

Stay confused my friend, this ain't chat about "Koeman /job" so I cannot be any more clear, if you feel aggrieved send me a PM or accept that right now anyone else reading these posts is just going to think we are both self-obssessed wankers. I'm at 6am in my territory so bear in mind I may have struggled to find clarity in some recent efforts.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:02:41 AM
Coleman will walk straight in the team, probably play 1-2 U23/behind closed door games beforehand, he's already back in training. Bolasie will be an impact sub till up to speed then will start. Koeman has already stated Ross will be part of the squad and will get game time, even if it just to get him prepped for a move in Jan

Glad you've calmed down

I'm not suggesting Coleman won't start but will it be before Christmas?
Will Bolasie be ready before Christmas?
Will Barkley play again?
Doesn't matter what Koeman says - Barkley is injured and may not be "fully fit" before Christmas.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:05:53 AM
Stay confused my friend, this ain't chat about "Koeman /job" so I cannot be any more clear, if you feel aggrieved send me a PM or accept that right now anyone else reading these posts is just going to think we are both self-obssessed wankers. I'm at 6am in my territory so bear in mind I may have struggled to find clarity in some recent efforts.

Aggrieved about what? PM? WTF man?
Your last few posts are confusing and uncoordinated. Are you alright?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 03:07:34 AM
Glad you've calmed down

I'm not suggesting Coleman won't start but will it be before Christmas?
Will Bolasie be ready before Christmas?
Will Barkley play again?
Doesn't matter what Koeman says - Barkley is injured and may not be "fully fit" before Christmas.

Coleman - October was his goal time, we are already in Sept
Bolasie - November, should be back fully training end of month
Ross - 2 months takes us to late October, at least 8 weeks if he is to move
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:08:31 AM
Coleman - October was his goal time, we are already in Sept
Bolasie - November, should be back fully training end of month
Ross - 2 months takes us to late October, at least 8 weeks if he is to move

#Clutching
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 03:12:13 AM
Aggrieved about what? PM? WTF man?
Your last few posts are confusing and uncoordinated. Are you alright?

Well thank you very much for asking! I've just scored an 8-5 Mon-Fri office job so I am fucking spectacular! I can't wait for that first pay packet haha

You must realise we're not talking about Koeman's suitability for the job in any respect?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Tony Clifton on September 10, 2017, 03:14:36 AM
(https://i1.wp.com/abject.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/autoharp_processing.gif?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ross on September 10, 2017, 03:14:55 AM
Why does he have to be the Dutch anyone?

Be odd calling him the Israeli Allardyce don't you think?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:16:02 AM
Well thank you very much for asking! I've just scored an 8-5 Mon-Fri office job so I am fucking spectacular! I can't wait for that first pay packet haha

You must realise we're not talking about Koeman's suitability for the job in any respect?

Well I was until you sidetracked me with weird posts and I asked if you ok as I was slightly concerned about your ramblings and revelations that you're kind of stalking me?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
Be odd calling him the Israeli Allardyce don't you think?

Haha
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 10, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
LADS STOP IT
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 03:24:36 AM
Well I was until you sidetracked me with weird posts and I asked if you ok as I was slightly concerned about your ramblings and revelations that you're kind of stalking me?

Nah man, you're doing a good job of keeping this chat out in the open where no one wants to read it. I've never stalked you so much as your opinions stood out from the norm, capisce?

If you are still concerned for whatever reason PM me or shut the fuck up unless it's about Koeman and I'll do the same eh?

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 10, 2017, 03:26:10 AM
The signing of Martina, no cover at left back for 4 months of the season,  spending most of our budget on 3 players that play in the same position (Klassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson), spending most of the transfer window chasing Sigurdsson when the priority was always signing a replacement for Lukaku, not signing a replacement for Lukaku, no pace whatsoever in the side, potentially ruining Davies' breakthrough season and unbelievable qualities for the sake of Klassen and publicly slating Barkley and killing the relationship with someone who should have been an boyhood everton star for years to come!
I have my doubts......
Mate, it's not the 70's - he doesn't do it all. Can't put no LB cover on him when he asked for one about 30 times in pressers.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:26:30 AM
Nah man, you're doing a good job of keeping this chat out in the open where no one wants to read it. I've never stalked you so much as your opinions stood out from the norm, capisce?

If you are still concerned for whatever reason PM me or shut the fuck up unless it's about Koeman and I'll do the same eh?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: bluestevie on September 10, 2017, 03:26:48 AM
Be odd calling him the Israeli Allardyce don't you think?

What I meant is why does he have to be compared as the Dutch version of anyone?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: D_murph0278 on September 10, 2017, 03:27:40 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport&ved=0ahUKEwjyrPrC7pjWAhVkAsAKHUWaB7wQFggpMAE&usg=AFQjCNEPNirQgcE4q2EgGKE1MVIeAa8yQg&ampcf=1
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:30:40 AM
Nah man, you're doing a good job of keeping this chat out in the open where no one wants to read it. I've never stalked you so much as your opinions stood out from the norm, capisce?

If you are still concerned for whatever reason PM me or shut the fuck up unless it's about Koeman and I'll do the same eh?

Stating you joined the forum to tool me, asking mods to check my IP address & constantly asking me to PM you is weird and probably borderline stalking
Don't make me laugh acting like a mad man I'll post as often as I please regardless of your aggressive demands you idiot
I'll repeat incase you didn't understand the first time - I was talking about Koeman until you started your nonsense
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 03:32:03 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport&ved=0ahUKEwjyrPrC7pjWAhVkAsAKHUWaB7wQFggpMAE&usg=AFQjCNEPNirQgcE4q2EgGKE1MVIeAa8yQg&ampcf=1

Is this anti or pro?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:34:49 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport&ved=0ahUKEwjyrPrC7pjWAhVkAsAKHUWaB7wQFggpMAE&usg=AFQjCNEPNirQgcE4q2EgGKE1MVIeAa8yQg&ampcf=1

That's a good read and a terrifying one too
What the hell have we done hiring this fool? I'm dreading what state were gonna be in when we finally get rid of him
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 03:36:29 AM
That's a good read and a terrifying one too
What the hell have we done hiring this fool? I'm dreading what state were gonna be in when we finally get rid of him

Higher than when we brought him in?

Since the article concludes that Valencia is a basket case club it's not exactly definitive proof.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:36:49 AM
Is this anti or pro?

It's scary. Did you read it?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:38:28 AM
Higher than when we brought him in?

Since the article concludes that Valencia is a basket case club it's not exactly definitive proof.

I didn't get what you meant there mate?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ross on September 10, 2017, 03:38:38 AM
What I meant is why does he have to be compared as the Dutch version of anyone?

Just because he's Dutch Stevie and it's easy to compare him to other managers who's teams have familiar traits.

I apologise to any Allardyce fans out there...
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 03:38:42 AM
It's scary. Did you read it?

Yes.

For arguments sake I'll take it that he won a trophy in very difficult circumstances.

It's also 10 years ago.

Given that he's finished 7th, 6th, 7th in his most recent 3 seasons, in the PL, I wouldn't be taking too much from it.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:39:46 AM
Yes.

For arguments sake I'll take it that he won a trophy in very difficult circumstances.

It's also 10 years ago.

Given that he's finished 7th, 6th, 7th in his most recent 3 seasons, in the PL, I wouldn't be taking too much from it.

What do his PL finishes have to do with it?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 03:40:16 AM
I didn't get what you meant there mate?

Well we'd finished 11th two years on the bounce before he came.

so I think when he leaves it'll be higher than when he came.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 03:41:15 AM
What do his PL finishes have to do with it?

It's the most recent (and relevant given that's where we play) evidence of his abilities (or not).
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:42:31 AM
Well we'd finished 11th two years on the bounce before he came.

so I think when he leaves it'll be higher than when he came.

Oh right I get you now. Pretty obvious he's got an ego though. I just hope it isn't big enough to force out good players like it did then
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on September 10, 2017, 03:46:37 AM
Won't really make any difference who the manager is, until the board show real ambition in bringing in world class players, and keeping the current star performers instead of selling one every summer, nothing in my opinion changes.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 03:47:55 AM
Stating you joined the forum to tool me, asking mods to check my IP address & constantly asking me to PM you is weird and probably borderline stalking
Don't make me laugh acting like a mad man I'll post as often as I please regardless of your aggressive demands you idiot
I'll repeat incase you didn't understand the first time - I was talking about Koeman until you started your nonsense

You've left me in the wonderful position that I don't want to de-rail this thread any further, yet you've made it clear you don't want me to send you private messages.

I'll try to be definitive as I can mate. I was annoyed on deadline day but have already apologised to you for it since, I can find the post if you'd like.

It's best we just don't talk to each other from now on because it's descended into throwing poo, don't ya think?

Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:53:40 AM
You've left me in the wonderful position that I don't want to de-rail this thread any further, yet you've made it clear you don't want me to send you private messages.

I'll try to be definitive as I can mate. I was annoyed on deadline day but have already apologised to you for it since, I can find the post if you'd like.

It's best we just don't talk to each other from now on because it's descended into throwing poo, don't ya think?

Not talking to each other suits me fine.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: D_murph0278 on September 10, 2017, 04:00:26 AM
He done a Harry Redknapp with Valencia.
Won a cup and nearly relegated and bankrupt them all at the same time.
One thing that is consistent. Players fucking hate him....
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: everton1952 on September 10, 2017, 04:00:56 AM
Who is this fucker Realist? Is it Defeatist under another name. Why bother taking the bait?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 04:02:06 AM
Not talking to each other suits me fine.

Alright man, no beef intended so the last thing I have to say.

I have set my user profile so I won't even be able to read what you say from now on, have fun :cheers:
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ravardo on September 10, 2017, 04:10:41 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport&ved=0ahUKEwjyrPrC7pjWAhVkAsAKHUWaB7wQFggpMAE&usg=AFQjCNEPNirQgcE4q2EgGKE1MVIeAa8yQg&ampcf=1

Nearly 10 years ago and theres quite a few similarities,,which is worrying
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 04:16:14 AM
Well we'd finished 11th two years on the bounce before he came.

so I think when he leaves it'll be higher than when he came.

Is that the test? Better than what Martinez was doing on double the wages and multiple times the budget
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: GLewis on September 10, 2017, 04:19:01 AM
Is that the test? Better than what Martinez was doing on double the wages and multiple times the budget

No it was the response to the point of dreading to think where we're going to end up.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 04:20:36 AM
Who is this fucker Realist? Is it Defeatist under another name. Why bother taking the bait?

It's not bait it's truth
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Martip on September 10, 2017, 04:27:57 AM
Martinez was truly awful in that last season but I really can't see koeman has made us much better/ added much value.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on September 10, 2017, 04:36:51 AM
I'll reserve judgement til the new year. It's not looking great at the moment but this is a new team and it will take time.

I also remember when we beat koemans saints at st Mary's 3-0 and after they went on a good run and I think that's the season they got Europe.

We've played the three best sides in the country we have another next week but let's see how we go against the sides worse than us where we'll hopefully get confidence and begin to click.

We're not the only team to get hammered this season. The shite and arsenal have had their arses ripped already.

Doom and gloom if we fail to beat shite.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blueToffee on September 10, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
I'll reserve judgement til the new year. It's not looking great at the moment but this is a new team and it will take time.

I also remember when we beat koemans saints at st Mary's 3-0 and after they went on a good run and I think that's the season they got Europe.

We've played the three best sides in the country we have another next week but let's see how we go against the sides worse than us where we'll hopefully get confidence and begin to click.

We're not the only team to get hammered this season. The shite and arsenal have had their arses ripped already.

Doom and gloom if we fail to beat shite.

No chance we're beating Liverpool on this form.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blueToffee on September 10, 2017, 05:03:06 AM
I think Koeman is pragmatic and will turn things around. My main concern remains with the transfer window and our acquisitions. I don't think we addressed the areas we needed to in order to have a truly successful season.

Rooney isn't the biggest problem, he had a couple of good games but I'm not sold that he warrants a place in the starting XI every game. There in general seems to be a lot of shoehorning of players into the side to try and get them to gel.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 10, 2017, 05:04:25 AM
I was underwhelmed by his initial appointment (without having a preferred option instead of him) but thought last year was an ok start based on the mess he'd inherited from the moron.

Prepared to give him a bit longer before deciding he's shit after a poor end to the transfer window and new players yet to bed in.

Long term I doubt he'll do much, if anything, of note during his time here although hopefully I'm wrong. Genuinely can't see him ever landing the Barcelona job that people seem to think he's going to get unless something drastically changes in his management style (or lack thereof).
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Optimistic Blue on September 10, 2017, 05:08:08 AM
He ain't got a fucking clue
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on September 10, 2017, 05:17:09 AM
No chance we're beating Liverpool on this form.
Not the shite I meant general shite like Swansea or Brighton etc
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: sam of the south on September 10, 2017, 05:19:41 AM
Be odd calling him the Israeli Allardyce don't you think?

It's got a ring to it, though
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2017, 05:24:19 AM
No it was the response to the point of dreading to think where we're going to end up.

I agree but at the same time with what has happened in the transfer windows since, I do worry how the landscape of the prem has changed.

Moshiri said we had one window...have we done enough?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2017, 05:25:01 AM
I'm feeling v. dramatic this evening btw
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Silas on September 10, 2017, 05:28:07 AM
How many, "I would love for him to prove me wrong" posts have we had? I love it when people do that. Forum equivalent of agnosticism
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: sam of the south on September 10, 2017, 05:36:26 AM
I'm feeling v. dramatic this evening btw

I'm drained when it comes to Everton.

Moshiri's cringy interview.

Koeman publically dissing Barkley and ostracising Niasse.

Rushing through the sale of Lukaku, then not getting a replacement for him, and reinstating Niasse in the squad.

Having no pace or width of note.

Getting a clutch of No.10's.

Spending a fortune on Sigurdsson but not getting a target man to get on the end of his set-pieces.

Sigurdsson not taking corners today!

The general shit football.

Four shots on target in the last four games or something.

Not even competing against Spurs or Chelsea.

No signs of pass and move, or a coherent strategy to attack in general.

Williams and Martina playing over Jagielka and Holgate.

There's just very little to get excited about.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Tony Clifton on September 10, 2017, 05:39:19 AM
Cuco definitely has some dirt on Ronald...

Tottenham movement made it difficult for Cuco Martina admits Ronald Koeman

"They found the free player in the midfield too easily and that made it really tough."

But the Blues boss absolved right-back Cuco Martina of blame for the one-sided rout.

The defender was involved in Spurs' second and third goals - after Harry Kane had opened the scoring with a fluke - but Koeman said that the system was to blame, not the individual.

"I don't like to talk too tactical," said Koeman "but the problem was the movement from Alli and Eriksen made it very difficult for Martina because most of the time he needed to come inside because Eriksen was close to him.

"Okay, then you leave maybe too much space against Davies. It was not a fault by Martina. It was a team organisation that we did not control and that was the reason to change it at half-time."

Is it just me or does that not read like blame the midfield, not Cuco

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026)
Title: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blueski on September 10, 2017, 06:06:35 AM
Cuco definitely has some dirt on Ronald...

Tottenham movement made it difficult for Cuco Martina admits Ronald Koeman

"They found the free player in the midfield too easily and that made it really tough."

But the Blues boss absolved right-back Cuco Martina of blame for the one-sided rout.

The defender was involved in Spurs' second and third goals - after Harry Kane had opened the scoring with a fluke - but Koeman said that the system was to blame, not the individual.

"I don't like to talk too tactical," said Koeman "but the problem was the movement from Alli and Eriksen made it very difficult for Martina because most of the time he needed to come inside because Eriksen was close to him.

"Okay, then you leave maybe too much space against Davies. It was not a fault by Martina. It was a team organisation that we did not control and that was the reason to change it at half-time."

Is it just me or does that not read like blame the midfield, not Cuco

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026)
Reading this more along the lines of koeman getting things wrong

- pochettino spotted Martina as a weakness and intentionally doubled him
 Also koeman picked him both by signing him and by picking him on the day
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rhys on September 10, 2017, 06:16:40 AM
Won't really make any difference who the manager is, until the board show real ambition in bringing in world class players, and keeping the current star performers instead of selling one every summer, nothing in my opinion changes.

Why would world class players come to us? Genuine question.

I'm sure the board would love to bring in world class players however given we've never been in the Champions League, not won a trophy for 22 years, been in Europe twice in about 7 years and cant blow the better teams out the water financially we just cant go out and attract world class players.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blueToffee on September 10, 2017, 06:23:24 AM
We seemingly can't attract even a half decent striker let alone a world class one.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 06:31:06 AM
Cuco definitely has some dirt on Ronald...

Tottenham movement made it difficult for Cuco Martina admits Ronald Koeman

"They found the free player in the midfield too easily and that made it really tough."

But the Blues boss absolved right-back Cuco Martina of blame for the one-sided rout.

The defender was involved in Spurs' second and third goals - after Harry Kane had opened the scoring with a fluke - but Koeman said that the system was to blame, not the individual.

"I don't like to talk too tactical," said Koeman "but the problem was the movement from Alli and Eriksen made it very difficult for Martina because most of the time he needed to come inside because Eriksen was close to him.

"Okay, then you leave maybe too much space against Davies. It was not a fault by Martina. It was a team organisation that we did not control and that was the reason to change it at half-time."

Is it just me or does that not read like blame the midfield, not Cuco

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026)

Koeman isn't shy about giving it to players in public, yet Cuco the clown plays like that and has a hand in two of their goals and he defends him, it's pathetic
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2017, 07:15:09 AM
Today wasn't Martina's fault. He's getting an absolutely panning on twitter but you don't lose 3-0 at home due to your RB.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 10, 2017, 09:15:55 AM
Fully prepared for the flack here... IF he was to go (which incidentally I think is far too early currently to be considering) I'd agree with @MartinezsLeftTeste (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) here (cue hell freezing over), in that I'd honestly take a chance on Unsworth. Call me mad.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on September 10, 2017, 10:56:33 AM
Cuco definitely has some dirt on Ronald...

Tottenham movement made it difficult for Cuco Martina admits Ronald Koeman

"They found the free player in the midfield too easily and that made it really tough."

But the Blues boss absolved right-back Cuco Martina of blame for the one-sided rout.

The defender was involved in Spurs' second and third goals - after Harry Kane had opened the scoring with a fluke - but Koeman said that the system was to blame, not the individual.

"I don't like to talk too tactical," said Koeman "but the problem was the movement from Alli and Eriksen made it very difficult for Martina because most of the time he needed to come inside because Eriksen was close to him.

"Okay, then you leave maybe too much space against Davies. It was not a fault by Martina. It was a team organisation that we did not control and that was the reason to change it at half-time."

Is it just me or does that not read like blame the midfield, not Cuco

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tottenham-movement-made-difficult-cuco-13597026)
Am I the only one reading that as Koeman admitting he was at fault? In broken English.. he keeps saying "we" and blames it on team organisation. Unless anyone thinks that he thinks someone else organises the team?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on September 10, 2017, 11:04:01 AM
Today wasn't Martina's fault. He's getting an absolutely panning on twitter but you don't lose 3-0 at home due to your RB.
True. He made a couple of mistakes, and was left exposed against Davies who kept having him for breakfast. The problem was leaving Eriksen space in the middle and failing to track runners. Basically we were poorly organised and didn't put in a shift, as a team.

Of course, it's much easier to pick a culprit or two and shout as loudly as possible that they are absolutely fucking shite. I've got faith that people with far greater knowledge and understanding of football will be doing something a little more productive. And probably thinking and speaking like adults who have control of their emotions while working to resolve these issues. I seriously doubt any of those people are reading this thread.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2017, 11:07:18 AM
He's not going to go anywhere this season. We'll finish 7th or 8th, and that will be more than enough to keep him in a job. It's silly to call for his head, and I certainly wouldn't advocate that. I just get the feeling this season is going to be very bland and predictable, unless we happen to win a cup or go near to winning a cup.

I look around at other managers at clubs we're trying to compete with and a number of them have different strengths:

Klopp's a great man motivator who gets his players willing to run through walls for him. He also produces an exciting brand of football. Conte is a master tactician and innovative thinker in football terms. Mourinho is also a great man motivator and a very good tactician defensively. Poch is a very good tactician, very flexible and he improves almost everyone who plays under him markedly. Guardiola plays great football (admittedly with amazing players) and tries to educate and develop his players significantly. Wenger's not what he used to be, but at his best he improved his players significantly and played superb attacking football.

What's Koeman's vision and trademark?

He can organise a defence, granted, but plenty of average managers can do that. He's a pragmatist, and not massively wedded to a particular shape or style. Does he markedly improve players who play under him, with training and tactical instruction? I'm not seeing any evidence of that at all. What is his attacking plan with the ball? Has he got a discernible style of football that he's trying to drum into the players, like many of the most successful managers do? Not that I'm seeing.

He's into his pressing, although I'm not sure it's structured, intelligent pressing. I almost get the feeling he heard that we like pressing at Everton from Graham Stuart and Snods (in response to the Martinez dross), and decided he'd better try his hand at it, without really having a coherent plan for it.

He seems to love a long diagonal, judging by the number of them we play. What's our pattern of play in trying to break teams down? Where are we creating overloads on the pitch, to outnumber and hurt the opposition? We couldn't keep the ball against Ruzumberok at times. We couldn't keep the ball for long periods against Stoke. We couldn't keep the ball with a numerical advantage for a long time against Man City.

Yes, there are extenuating circumstances. We have some key injuries, we didn't get the striker we needed, we've got a really hard run of fixtures when trying to fit new players in. And it's far too soon to write Koeman off generally.

But...I'm just not convinced we're going anywhere special with him. To finish higher than 7th we need something to set us apart. I don't see any tactical innovation, I don't see a grand footballing vision, I don't see players developing massively under his tutelage. We've bought some good players, but he's far too obsessed with 'proven Premier League' as his criteria. Most of the best players in this league had never played in the Prem before they came here, so let's fuck that right off. There's loads of 'proven Premier League' players who are fucking rubbish.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Confucius on September 10, 2017, 12:34:20 PM
Fully prepared for the flack here... IF he was to go (which incidentally I think is far too early currently to be considering) I'd agree with @MartinezsLeftTeste (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) here (cue hell freezing over), in that I'd honestly take a chance on Unsworth. Call me mad.

Stop being a WUM Jamo. It's so obvious mate
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Lazarou on September 10, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
I'm drained when it comes to Everton.

Moshiri's cringy interview.

Koeman publically dissing Barkley and ostracising Niasse.

Rushing through the sale of Lukaku, then not getting a replacement for him, and reinstating Niasse in the squad.

Having no pace or width of note.

Getting a clutch of No.10's.

Spending a fortune on Sigurdsson but not getting a target man to get on the end of his set-pieces.

Sigurdsson not taking corners today!

The general shit football.

Four shots on target in the last four games or something.

Not even competing against Spurs or Chelsea.

No signs of pass and move, or a coherent strategy to attack in general.

Williams and Martina playing over Jagielka and Holgate.

There's just very little to get excited about.

Totally agree, I am feeling apathetic already. All roads lead to the mangers door. He has really surprised me how tactically inept he has looked.

Trying to fit all your best players in the starting 11 to detriment of your team is very Sunday league.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 12:45:52 PM
Fully prepared for the flack here... IF he was to go (which incidentally I think is far too early currently to be considering) I'd agree with @MartinezsLeftTeste (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) here (cue hell freezing over), in that I'd honestly take a chance on Unsworth. Call me mad.
Thats not mad i'd welcome it right now, i'm biased I can't stand the man as a manager, he was a great player and all that but a tactical moose, it can't and won't happen he will be given to the end of his contract unless they find out he eats children or something.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2017, 01:08:22 PM
Thats not mad i'd welcome it right now, i'm biased I can't stand the man as a manager, he was a great player and all that but a tactical moose, it can't and won't happen he will be given to the end of his contract unless they find out he eats children or something.

Sorry but that's a ludicrous opinion to have at this stage. Fair enough if you're uninspired or unimpressed, but how anyone can say they can't stand him as a manager is beyond me. He's taken us from 11th to 7th, and more than likely will get 7th again. It's solid and safe, not something worthy of hatred.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 10, 2017, 01:42:36 PM
Stop being a WUM Jamo. It's so obvious mate

Not at all. Although I see what you're doing. In the director of football and first team coach system we're now operating I believe we could take a chance on Unsworth's inexperience. You mentioned before that Koeman doesn't get Everton/Evertonians and I agree. Our most successful managers have been just that. Unsworth fits that bill completely. I'd love to see him given a shot and make a success of it. It would make any success even sweeter.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 01:52:45 PM
Sorry but that's a ludicrous opinion to have at this stage. Fair enough if you're uninspired or unimpressed, but how anyone can say they can't stand him as a manager is beyond me. He's taken us from 11th to 7th, and more than likely will get 7th again. It's solid and safe, not something worthy of hatred.
Iv'e hated his management since the Liverpool game at our place last season, he has not improved any, if anything it's worse because he has made signings for himself, Pickford and Keane good additions but obvious ones to make, the rest totally underwhelming, but the "winging it" feel just stays with me, i know we will have to lose some games some see as bankers before more alarm bells ring, but they will come if he stays on this unimaginative path. It's not a personal hatred of the man just his style,although plenty of warning smoke on his one to one player management.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 02:05:27 PM
Not at all. Although I see what you're doing. In the director of football and first team coach system we're now operating I believe we could take a chance on Unsworth's inexperience. You mentioned before that Koeman doesn't get Everton/Evertonians and I agree. Our most successful managers have been just that. Unsworth fits that bill completely. I'd love to see him given a shot and make a success of it. It would make any success even sweeter.
Sometimes the gold is right under your nose.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blue slug on September 10, 2017, 02:15:28 PM
I've said for a while that I just don't see us having a style of play or any cohesiveness and that has to be down to the manager, still early days though so hopefully we will turn it around
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 10, 2017, 02:33:21 PM
His backers are right that there's not yet enough evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing, but is there any evidence that he does know what he's doing? And is it footballing evidence, not based on reputation as a player?

I've seen little of Unsworth since I don't watch the U23s, but when we played Norwich after Martinez was fired was the last time for that I've seen an Everton side gel and play together successfully as a team. We had a clear plan and the players were driven and carried it out. It was the Everton I want to see. That is enough evidence for me to give him a go.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on September 10, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
He only has a three year contract doesn't he?

Getting us firm foundations is this part of the process. I think to move on a new manager will be required. Like Chelsea in their early days moved up through different managers based on their status.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 10, 2017, 02:49:45 PM
I joke about wanting Koeman out, but if we aren't able to appoint somebody of the appropriate caliber what's the point?

The jokes are born from truth though. I don't particularly rate him, despite him being plenty good enough for us to finish 7th.

It might be a bit hotheaded to want him replaced, but as we've seen with the transfer window, sometimes patience just doesn't get you anywhere.

Our issues over these tough three games haven't been a result of players bedding in. They've been tactical and structural.

We are the narrowest (and slowest) team going. It leaves our full backs exposed defensively, particularly when playing with 4 at the back. It makes it much more difficult to retain possession because we don't have options in space. As for our attack? I'll let this season speak for itself. When we move the ball around quickly and catch defences off guard we're okay, we're not doing that too much though.

These are all problems that people on a messageboard have foreseen and that we've had for a while. That Koeman seemingly did nothing to try to address them doesn't particularly bode well for our future progression. 

If we want to finish the 7th, he's a good man for the job. His defensive solidity and our general quality will see us most of the way there. If we want to close the gap or compete for trophies? We should probably replace him the second we can bring in a credible alternative.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 10, 2017, 02:55:11 PM
His backers are right that there's not yet enough evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing, but is there any evidence that he does know what he's doing? And is it footballing evidence, not based on reputation as a player?

I've seen little of Unsworth since I don't watch the U23s, but when we played Norwich after Martinez was fired was the last time for that I've seen an Everton side gel and play together successfully as a team. We had a clear plan and the players were driven and carried it out. It was the Everton I want to see. That is enough evidence for me to give him a go.

If your reference point is a home game against an already relegated side twenty-four hours after the most popular decision in five seasons there will be a lot of candidates that will come up to scratch.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2017, 02:56:29 PM
He only has a three year contract doesn't he?

Getting us firm foundations is this part of the process. I think to move on a new manager will be required. Like Chelsea in their early days moved up through different managers based on their status.

Approximately 220m spent for 'firm foundations', 7th place ceiling and long diagonals to no-one seems like a low bar to me.

I think at least 10-12 managers (being conservative) in the Prem could finish 7th with our squad, armed with 220m (even with the sale of Stones and Lukaku). And some of them would even get the team playing some football, as an added bonus.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Mac934 on September 10, 2017, 02:57:31 PM
Play the ball over the top or cross it for Lukaku.
Pass sideways a few times, then back to Pickford to lump it upfield to the new centre forward.........oh hang on a minute!
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
I'm not particularly convinced Koeman is going to lead us to great things so I will happily agree with that general point.

However, it seems harsh to be picking apart his deficiencies quite so much when we are only 4 matches into the season, having faced the misfortune of playing top-four teams, with established first-elevens and systems; so regardless of how suitable our signings turn out to be we are currently starting with 7 new players and we look like it.

Realised after posting @van der Meyde (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=12) has already partially shot down what I said above, but meh I've typed it out so might as well show it
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 03:12:14 PM
I strongly dislike having Koeman as manager right now but if he went who would honestly take the job?

Could we attract a world class manager?
All we can offer is a good wage (which most clubs can now) and not much else
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: everton1952 on September 10, 2017, 03:32:08 PM
The start was always going to be difficult and to cap it all we have Man U on Sunday. The points return so far is almost to be expected, but the rank bad displays are not. With such an ill equipped and unbalanced squad, 7th will be a miracle. Of course there is always January, but damage might have  been done before then.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on September 10, 2017, 04:01:56 PM
Well yesterday was poor and Koeman admitted he was tactically outthought. No need to panic yet but 150 million spent and Klassen sygi and Sandro have a lot to do.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on September 10, 2017, 04:27:49 PM
Why would world class players come to us? Genuine question.


I'm sure the board would love to bring in world class players however given we've never been in the Champions League, not won a trophy for 22 years, been in Europe twice in about 7 years and cant blow the better teams out the water financially we just cant go out and attract world class players.

Thats not for me to convince, thats the responsibilty of the board and Moshiri.
Lukaku talked about ambition, what the club should have done was push the boat all out this season and convince 2-3 star players to join and tell Lukaku we want to go places your staying we will bring those players to help you fulfill those ambitions.

Are we continually just going to be a run of the mill club just going through the motions every season and saying ' oh it will be better next season' 

The club at somepoint have to say this what we want and we are going to prepare for it.
All they are preparing for this season is another borefest of 7th place at best.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rhys on September 10, 2017, 04:34:08 PM
I strongly dislike having Koeman as manager right now but if he went who would honestly take the job?

Could we attract a world class manager?
All we can offer is a good wage (which most clubs can now) and not much else

We might not get a world class manager but there is more chance of us getting a world class manager than a world class player. We pay koeman 6.5m a year, he is in the top 10 highest paid managers in the world I'm sure plenty of managers who are of a very good level would be interested for that reason alone.

We pay the manager more than psg do, he is earning more than simeone, the same as conte as examples of where he sits. Paying a manager top money is where we can compete with a lot of clubs.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 04:36:27 PM
We might not get a world class manager but there is more chance of us getting a world class manager than a world class player. We pay koeman 6.5m a year, he is in the top 10 highest paid managers in the world I'm sure plenty of managers who are of a very good level would be interested for that reason alone.

We pay the manager more than psg do, he is earning more than simeone, the same as conte as examples of where he sits. Paying a manager top money is where we can compete with a lot of clubs.

Mad the amount of money we're paying someone who isn't a very good manager
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ross on September 10, 2017, 04:43:10 PM
Mad the amount of money we're paying someone who isn't a very good manager

"Hollywood" manager.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rhys on September 10, 2017, 04:46:00 PM
Thats not for me to convince, thats the responsibilty of the board and Moshiri.
Lukaku talked about ambition, what the club should have done was push the boat all out this season and convince 2-3 star players to join and tell Lukaku we want to go places your staying we will bring those players to help you fulfill those ambitions.

Are we continually just going to be a run of the mill club just going through the motions every season and saying ' oh it will be better next season' 

The club at somepoint have to say this what we want and we are going to prepare for it.
All they are preparing for this season is another borefest of 7th place at best.


That's easy to say but what reasons could they use to convince the elite players to join us?

Can we pay twice as much as the current elite teams in the league to make them join us? No

Can we say to players we are in the champions league? No

Have we been in the CL so players think it's worth joining us? No

Have we been regulars in Europe like Spurs have been for the last decade? No

Have we been regularly competing for trophies so that players think they can win things with us? No.


The fact is elite level players have a lot of choice and even in England there are 6 clubs above us who elite level players will look at and think they are all better placed to achieve top goals.

City were able to get better players than their level when they made a go of things and that was because they could blow teams away financially. United offered tevez 150k a week, they paid him 250k a week. They offered David silva, toure huge money because they had an unlimited pot of money effectively and no FFP to consider. Plus because they could pay to attract players like Robinho it makes players think they are serious they are going to pay what it takes to become an elite team.

Chelsea were already in the CL when abramovich took over, they had a good team to start with to build on.

I can't think of a reason why even someone like an abaumayang would have come to us and he isn't ultra elite level, same with Werner. Players will look at will I play champions league football, will I earn top money, will I win trophies and those factors they can all get at plenty of clubs over us right now. We might match the money or maybe even a bit more but we can't offer enough for them to ignore the other factors. Which is why kolasinic bild saying we offered him 180k a week, arsenal 145k a week he still goes there because of the other factors.

We have to buy well still, we have to find some players on the rise before they become that level mixed with players we know what we will get who can push us closer to the teams above. Unfortunately for us the timing is such with ffp, the level of teams above us and our lack of recent successes means it isn't going to be a quick fix of lets buy top players because they just won't come.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Ramjam on September 10, 2017, 04:46:38 PM
Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rhys on September 10, 2017, 04:49:12 PM
Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?

He isn't far off in money terms he earns more than their players think he is on 100-110k a week. One of the clubs who recognise the value of their manager over the players.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 04:50:28 PM
Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?

Not a chance, I doubt he'll be on a pittance anyway and he has a great project ongoing at Spurs, they look capable of winning things now.
They probably also have money to spend which I don't think we do (sadly)
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2017, 05:59:11 PM
Yeah it's a bit early for this talk.

I do think we will settle and start picking up points once we get united out the way.

We do have a lot of new players and to be fair we are missing the key component of our system so it's a little bit hodge-podge ATM.

I'd say at the end of this year there's still no signs of system, we finish distant 7th or worse, (strong 7th is sort of fair, but we want to be troubling the top 6 not scraping into 7th) and more poor showing in the cup - then based on the assumption that there's someone available who we believe can do better I wouldn't be against firing him.

We are paying a top wage and looking to compete, if we are failing to compete or improve he should be judged on that.

However like I say, I felt similarly last year but when it clicked we started winning and I think that will happen again.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on September 10, 2017, 07:04:16 PM
That's easy to say but what reasons could they use to convince the elite players to join us?

Can we pay twice as much as the current elite teams in the league to make them join us? No

Can we say to players we are in the champions league? No

Have we been in the CL so players think it's worth joining us? No

Have we been regulars in Europe like Spurs have been for the last decade? No

Have we been regularly competing for trophies so that players think they can win things with us? No.


The fact is elite level players have a lot of choice and even in England there are 6 clubs above us who elite level players will look at and think they are all better placed to achieve top goals.

City were able to get better players than their level when they made a go of things and that was because they could blow teams away financially. United offered tevez 150k a week, they paid him 250k a week. They offered David silva, toure huge money because they had an unlimited pot of money effectively and no FFP to consider. Plus because they could pay to attract players like Robinho it makes players think they are serious they are going to pay what it takes to become an elite team.

Chelsea were already in the CL when abramovich took over, they had a good team to start with to build on.

I can't think of a reason why even someone like an abaumayang would have come to us and he isn't ultra elite level, same with Werner. Players will look at will I play champions league football, will I earn top money, will I win trophies and those factors they can all get at plenty of clubs over us right now. We might match the money or maybe even a bit more but we can't offer enough for them to ignore the other factors. Which is why kolasinic bild saying we offered him 180k a week, arsenal 145k a week he still goes there because of the other factors.

We have to buy well still, we have to find some players on the rise before they become that level mixed with players we know what we will get who can push us closer to the teams above. Unfortunately for us the timing is such with ffp, the level of teams above us and our lack of recent successes means it isn't going to be a quick fix of lets buy top players because they just won't come.

Fair enough and I take your points on the above, but are you telling me the club couldn't have done more than bring in the likes of Rooney and Martina. Was Klaassen even needed if Sigurdsson is deployed in the number 10 position?

If we say that we have to be smart about mixing it up with players pushing us on and up and coming players then this isn't a representation of a club being shrewd in the market and the clear neglect of not bringing one possibly two centre forwards. We may want to close that gap, but if we cannot get the basics right in the transfer market then we are no closer to that top 6.

Also if the club cannot show some ambition then don't our up and coming players look to leave. What is there to prevent Pickford and Keane moving on to CL clubs in the next two years.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on September 10, 2017, 07:41:39 PM
Thats not for me to convince, thats the responsibilty of the board and Moshiri.
Lukaku talked about ambition, what the club should have done was push the boat all out this season and convince 2-3 star players to join and tell Lukaku we want to go places your staying we will bring those players to help you fulfill those ambitions.

Are we continually just going to be a run of the mill club just going through the motions every season and saying ' oh it will be better next season' 

The club at somepoint have to say this what we want and we are going to prepare for it.
All they are preparing for this season is another borefest of 7th place at best.

It's easy to point at someone and say it's their job to make something happen. However, if the task is 'make pigs fly' and you then berate them for not immediately succeeding, you probably aren't being very realistic with your expectations.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: gizzblue on September 10, 2017, 07:53:26 PM
Whilst I do understand the shit feelings ....it's all very knee jerk still to me .... every squad takes time to rebuild ....ours more so due to the back bone of it  being of age and shite players we had collected.....nobody turns 11 th into top four in two years without spending PSG money these days ....(at the risk of being fed to the lion's here)a lot r beginning to sound like spoilt red shite wanting everything now when we are or should be used to fuck fuck all.... it's just not that simple if it was, the game we all love wouldn't be worth watching .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on September 10, 2017, 08:06:06 PM
Approximately 220m spent for 'firm foundations', 7th place ceiling and long diagonals to no-one seems like a low bar to me.

I think at least 10-12 managers (being conservative) in the Prem could finish 7th with our squad, armed with 220m (even with the sale of Stones and Lukaku). And some of them would even get the team playing some football, as an added bonus.

You have to start somewhere, and I'm not saying 7th is the ceiling either. The puzzle is not complete yet and we will certainly need that striker in January, but two key pacey players will be back by then too. Sometimes big changes pay of immediately, other times they take time to settle and Koeman has a big headache of trying to fit everyone in. It reminds me of England a few years back when trying to accommodate too many superstars.

He needs to try different combinations. Klaassen has been off the pace, but I am sure he will come good. Drop him for Davies. Start with a winger, bring Lookman in for a while. Drop Rooney to the subs bench because I think he is a part of the problem in forcing other players to be out of position.

Yeah, he's spent a shit load, and it will be on his head as to whether we succeed or not. I'm still giving it half a season for everything to settle down, the strongest 11 to work its way out, and get this tough run of games behind us. We've played the top 4 teams in the league over the past few weeks, I want to see how we get on with the rest of the division.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 08:45:02 PM
It's easy to point at someone and say it's their job to make something happen. However, if the task is 'make pigs fly' and you then berate them for not immediately succeeding, you probably aren't being very realistic with your expectations.

Making pigs fly isn't that unreasonable a request if you were allowed the necessary tools to achieve it. Koeman has loaded the piggies onto a plane and even taken off, the problem is his plane is missing a landing gear and doesn't seem to know which direction to fly in order to reach a useful destination anyway.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 10, 2017, 09:18:29 PM
Great players , Van Basten , Gullitt , Koeman and Ronald De Boer . Shite managers .......................and in answer to the question I don't think so .
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: blargins on September 10, 2017, 10:34:54 PM
Making pigs fly isn't that unreasonable a request if you were allowed the necessary tools to achieve it. Koeman has loaded the piggies onto a plane and even taken off, the problem is his plane is missing a landing gear and doesn't seem to know which direction to fly in order to reach a useful destination anyway.

The destination should be my dinner plate via the butchers.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 10:39:17 PM
Great players , Van Basten , Gullitt , Koeman and Ronald De Boer . Shite managers .......................and in answer to the question I don't think so .
Koeman is similar to Souness..
Title: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 04:13:09 AM
Making pigs fly isn't that unreasonable a request if you were allowed the necessary tools to achieve it. Koeman has loaded the piggies onto a plane and even taken off, the problem is his plane is missing a landing gear and doesn't seem to know which direction to fly in order to reach a useful destination anyway.
Think you've missed the metaphor there mate. Flying pigs as in pigs with wings who can control their flight, not pigs as air freight. The point being the board and Mosh can't hold guns to players heads to make them come to us, they can offer money (allowing for FFP) but players can still say "no" which is beyond their control. I was countering the idea that having more money means all the board need do is pop down to the footballing equivalent of Tesco and buy from their finest range. The suggestion they should have some sort of ultimate control of all the worlds best players just because Mosh has a few quid is laughable.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 04:17:25 AM
Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?
Unlikely. He and Spurs lucked into Harry Kane. Without him, their last few years (and Poch's enhanced rep) would have been quite different.
Title: Re: Is Koeman the right man for the job?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 11, 2017, 04:14:33 PM
Think you've missed the metaphor there mate. Flying pigs as in pigs with wings who can control their flight, not pigs as air freight. The point being the board and Mosh can't hold guns to players heads to make them come to us, they can offer money (allowing for FFP) but players can still say "no" which is beyond their control. I was countering the idea that having more money means all the board need do is pop down to the footballing equivalent of Tesco and buy from their finest range. The suggestion they should have some sort of ultimate control of all the worlds best players just because Mosh has a few quid is laughable.

Yeah I twisted what you said as an excuse to make a lame joke to be honest :P