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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Gash on August 18, 2017, 04:05:53 AM

Title: Michael Keane
Post by: Gash on August 18, 2017, 04:05:53 AM
Getting £50m for Stones and paying £25+ add ons for Keane is starting to look like some very tidy business, especially in this summer's inflated market. Been very impressed with him so far.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Cassius on August 18, 2017, 04:07:17 AM
He was my motm today, I thought he was absolutely class. So much better on the ball than I realised.

When you look at the money being spent on defenders lately, we've got ourselves a bargain.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Silas on August 18, 2017, 04:07:49 AM
He defends well and is good on the ball which i thought is what we were getting with stones.  Keane is were stones could be
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Zoolander on August 18, 2017, 04:08:12 AM
He's got some serious passing range too
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 18, 2017, 04:09:52 AM
Absolutely fucking love him.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: YellowHold on August 18, 2017, 04:09:59 AM
Looks the complete package in a centre back, he'll score plenty this season too especially with Sigurdsson on set plays to come.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: bluenuck on August 18, 2017, 04:12:35 AM
Don't know what to think yet, but I like him so far.

After the next 4 PL games I'm sure we'll have a clearer picture.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Brownie20 on August 18, 2017, 04:19:17 AM
I had him down for first scorer........against City in the prediction league
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Heisenberg on August 18, 2017, 04:20:15 AM
Reminds me of peak jags but better on the ball
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: ajax_andy on August 18, 2017, 04:20:49 AM
Thought he was excellent tonight but I'd like to see someone with a bit if pace alongside him as he's slower than I imagined... Not horribly so but someone a bit more fleet footed next to him would be ideal
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on August 18, 2017, 04:46:19 AM
He plays with a lot more maturity than his years. We've got our keeper, centre half and centre midfield there for the next ten years, all English and all boss.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Macca77 on August 18, 2017, 05:03:37 AM
Superb today
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 18, 2017, 05:04:57 AM
Don't know what to think yet, but I like him so far.

After the next 4 PL games I'm sure we'll have a clearer picture.

Gonna be very harsh to judge any of our players based on the 4 premier league games coming up.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on August 18, 2017, 05:07:37 AM
Best English CB around in my opinion

https://twitter.com/everton/status/898304177520160768
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: bluenuck on August 18, 2017, 05:09:09 AM
Gonna be very harsh to judge any of our players based on the 4 premier league games coming up.

Maybe.

But if we want to crack the top 4 how would you expect us to do that if we aren't judging our players by how they play against top 4 teams?

Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on August 18, 2017, 05:09:37 AM
Gonna be very harsh to judge any of our players based on the 4 premier league games coming up.

If we have any aspirations of anything other than just the best of the rest though these are the games where our players need to stand up and be counted. The bigger players at the bigger clubs thrive in these games.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 18, 2017, 05:11:53 AM
Maybe.

But if we want to crack the top 4 how would you expect us to do that if we aren't judging our players by how they play against top 4 teams?



well, i don't expect us to crack the top 4 this season is my main line of thinking.

If, in the next 4 games, large parts of the squad looked distinctly average and we pick up no points, i wouldn't write them or the team off. I'd still be hoping for a good season of trying to take advantage of an opening to grab 6th place.
Title: Michael Keane
Post by: mikey_blue on August 18, 2017, 05:12:24 AM
We should do a sweepstake for when he will actually get beat in the air.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Confucius on August 18, 2017, 05:28:00 AM
People are dreaming if they think he is better than Stones. Good player and can get better for sure.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Gash on August 18, 2017, 05:34:37 AM
People are dreaming if they think he is better than Stones. Good player and can get better for sure.

He's a better defender than Stones in my opinion and certainly better in the air than him, maybe not quite as good on the ball but still very comfortable. The point still stands though, for half the price we got for Stones both deals are looking very good business for us.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Confucius on August 18, 2017, 05:55:25 AM
He's a better defender than Stones in my opinion and certainly better in the air than him, maybe not quite as good on the ball but still very comfortable. The point still stands though, for half the price we got for Stones both deals are looking very good business for us.

I agree that both deals are good business but let's judge Keane against better opposition for starters.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Tinga on August 18, 2017, 06:36:32 AM
I agree that both deals are good business but let's judge Keane against better opposition for starters.

Like last season when he was quality?
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: blargins on August 18, 2017, 06:42:08 AM
Stones and Keane would be a very solid and flexible pairing. Something England might look at. Can't remember who the other English defenders are to be honest.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: bluenuck on August 18, 2017, 06:42:43 AM
well, i don't expect us to crack the top 4 this season is my main line of thinking.

If, in the next 4 games, large parts of the squad looked distinctly average and we pick up no points, i wouldn't write them or the team off. I'd still be hoping for a good season of trying to take advantage of an opening to grab 6th place.

As a group I won't write them off either. But I will question if we really want those specific players that really struggle against the top 4 teams around for what we're trying to do.

I actually don't think Keane will struggle. I think he'll do pretty well, and it was a very nice piece of business basically trading Stones for him.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 06:59:13 AM
Gonna be very harsh to judge any of our players based on the 4 premier league games coming up.
That depends how we do in them.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 07:02:46 AM
People are dreaming if they think he is better than Stones. Good player and can get better for sure.
Seems more like people are using their eyes rather than dreaming. Stones has potential but is several hundred feet up his own backside, and that has stunted his development. He hasn't notably improved since he left us, Keane is better so far for us than Stones was when he left.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 07:04:30 AM
I agree that both deals are good business but let's judge Keane against better opposition for starters.
There was a fair bit of that on MOTD last season.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Realist on August 18, 2017, 11:17:00 AM
People are dreaming if they think he is better than Stones. Good player and can get better for sure.

He's a better defender than Stones with better passing, Stones hasn't been great for City.
I don't want a centre half who goes on big runs, his primary goal should be defending
I'd prefer Keane to Stones all day
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: blue1948 on August 18, 2017, 11:23:06 AM
You couldn't say faultless but he has definitely been impressive and looks  to be just what the doctor ordered and much better than we have had for a while .
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Morta75 on August 18, 2017, 11:48:38 AM
In my opinion the best signing we have done this summer.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: GLewis on August 18, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
He's a better defender than Stones with better passing, Stones hasn't been great for City.
I don't want a centre half who goes on big runs, his primary goal should be defending
I'd prefer Keane to Stones all day

His passing isn't as good as Stones' but that's not a massive criticism as since people are so frequent to point out Stones' defensive issues, the it surely points to how highly thought of his possession is?

Anyway re Keane he's looked very solid so far.

His speed and quickness on the turn will get tested in some of these games coming up.

But long term if we find a partner who really compliments him then he looks well set.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Toddacelli on August 18, 2017, 01:41:13 PM
The recruitment of Pickford and Keane has stood us in really good stead. Being better than their previous clubs who were just poor sides lucky to have the odd good player. Now we have them hopefully that will help us kick on a bit and attract the next level of player next season too.

We can steal a good player from the minnows at the moment but we need to improve if we're going to attract established players like Giroud.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 18, 2017, 02:56:07 PM
Nobody better for sorting a centre half than Koeman, Keane's positioning has improved tons already.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: van der Meyde on August 18, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
Maybe.

But if we want to crack the top 4 how would you expect us to do that if we aren't judging our players by how they play against top 4 teams?


It's not how we do against the top 4 that will determine where we finish, it will be how we do against the bottom 12.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on August 18, 2017, 03:29:18 PM
It's not how we do against the top 4 that will determine where we finish, it will be how we do against the bottom 12.

It's how we do against every team in the league which will determine how many points we end up with..
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: van der Meyde on August 18, 2017, 03:42:16 PM
It's how we do against every team in the league which will determine how many points we end up with..

Of course.

There are 78 points available from the bottom 13 compared to 36 from the top 6 though.

At this stage in our progression, how we do against the top 4 is much less important than how we do against the rest. The players we've signed should be judged accordingly.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on August 18, 2017, 06:06:31 PM
Of course.

There are 78 points available from the bottom 13 compared to 36 from the top 6 though.

At this stage in our progression, how we do against the top 4 is much less important than how we do against the rest. The players we've signed should be judged accordingly.


Games against the top 6 shouldn't be seen as a free swing anymore. We didn't do too bad last year against them overall and this year we're better equipped.
It's this mindset that needs to change.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 06:22:16 PM
His passing isn't as good as Stones' but that's not a massive criticism as since people are so frequent to point out Stones' defensive issues, the it surely points to how highly thought of his possession is?

Isn't it? For all the lauding Stones gets he still has a habit now of playing a really risky pass that then gets cut out and lets the opponent start a dangerous attack. Passing ability is only as useful as decision making allows it to be.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: van der Meyde on August 18, 2017, 07:05:41 PM
Games against the top 6 shouldn't be seen as a free swing anymore. We didn't do too bad last year against them overall and this year we're better equipped.
It's this mindset that needs to change.
Where have I said that we should forget about games against the top 6? I'm one of the biggest critics about our approach away from home in these games, for fuck's sake. We should be going into every single one of these games trying to win, because we have the players to beat anyone on our day.

Garbage teams win against the top 4 all the time. Wigan stayed up in 2011/12 because they beat Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal in their last 10 games. Sunderland stayed up in 13/14 in part because they won away at Man United and Chelsea. Would Palace have stayed up if they hadn't won away at Chelsea and Liverpool and beaten Arsenal at home in those last 10 games?

It doesn't mean their players are good though, does it. You can count on one hand the number of players you'd have from them in our first team; you don't really need more than 2 fingers, because you judge a player on as many games as you can, not arbitrarily deciding games against City, Chelsea and Spurs are more important.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Toddacelli on August 18, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Where have I said that we should forget about games against the top 6? I'm one of the biggest critics about our approach away from home in these games, for fuck's sake. We should be going into every single one of these games trying to win, because we have the players to beat anyone on our day.

Garbage teams win against the top 4 all the time. Wigan stayed up in 2011/12 because they beat Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal in their last 10 games. Sunderland stayed up in 13/14 in part because they won away at Man United and Chelsea. Would Palace have stayed up if they hadn't won away at Chelsea and Liverpool and beaten Arsenal at home in those last 10 games?

It doesn't mean their players are good though, does it. You can count on one hand the number of players you'd have from them in our first team; you don't really need more than 2 fingers, because you judge a player on as many games as you can, not arbitrarily deciding games against City, Chelsea and Spurs are more important.

I thought @Lxxx (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4362)  was adding to your point - not having a pop.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: van der Meyde on August 18, 2017, 07:09:56 PM
I thought @Lxxx (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4362)  was adding to your point - not having a pop.
Apologies if I read it the wrong way @Lxxx (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4362).

Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Major Clanger on August 18, 2017, 07:12:34 PM
Of course.

There are 78 points available from the bottom 13 compared to 36 from the top 6 though.

At this stage in our progression, how we do against the top 4 is much less important than how we do against the rest. The players we've signed should be judged accordingly.

While not disagreeing with you in general, we also need to take into account that any point against a top 6 team is a point they don't get, and thus lowers our target too.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Toddacelli on August 18, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
Apologies if I read it the wrong way @Lxxx (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4362).



Hold your horses - I might have read it wrong yet!     lolol


But the points from both of you are valid - teams below we should really be putting to be more regularly and we have also hopefully improved to the point where for the teams above - there will be no more drubbings received, we should be hard to beat and maybe turn one or two draws into victories. Let's wait and see!
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: van der Meyde on August 18, 2017, 07:24:35 PM
Hold your horses - I might have read it wrong yet!     lolol


But the points from both of you are valid - teams below we should really be putting to be more regularly and we have also hopefully improved to the point where for the teams above - there will be no more drubbings received, we should be hard to beat and maybe turn one or two draws into victories. Let's wait and see!
Yeah, absolutely.

With the new additions we start with a solid enough base that, hopefully, we might see the end of decisions like starting 3 defensive mids at Spurs away.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 07:34:20 PM
While not disagreeing with you in general, we also need to take into account that any point against a top 6 team is a point they don't get, and thus lowers our target too.

You've got to apply the reverse as well, any point we prevent those below us getting reduces the likelihood of them catching us.

Ultimately it doesn't matter where we get points, only that we get more points than others. I'd happily take 5/6 drubbings (home or away) a season if we won the rest, whether that was losing to the relegation fodder or last years champions.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Major Clanger on August 18, 2017, 07:35:52 PM
You've got to apply the reverse as well, any point we prevent those below us getting reduces the likelihood of them catching us.

Yeah but I'm not worried about that. :)
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: GLewis on August 18, 2017, 07:40:18 PM
In terms of quick improvements though it should be easier to pick up more points than we did in the away games against the 13 below us than in any games vs the top 6.

Chelsea last season is a good example.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 07:50:16 PM
Yeah but I'm not worried about that. :)

Have to say, when it comes to Everton at the moment I'm not worried about anything. We still haven't conceded a single competitive goal, and we've won every game. Michael (and Jordan) have been a big part of that, they inspire confidence.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 07:53:41 PM
In terms of quick improvements though it should be easier to pick up more points than we did in the away games against the 13 below us than in any games vs the top 6.

Chelsea last season is a good example.

That's a nice theory. But this is the Premier League. And when Sean Dyche was plotting where to pick up away points this season, he probably didn't expect to do that in their first away game. Shouldn't we just look to win each game as it comes, rather than deciding which teams we should be getting the points from in advance?
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: GLewis on August 18, 2017, 07:59:12 PM
That's a nice theory. But this is the Premier League. And when Sean Dyche was plotting where to pick up away points this season, he probably didn't expect to do that in their first away game. Shouldn't we just look to win each game as it comes, rather than deciding which teams we should be getting the points from in advance?

Yes but every team will look at the types of games they should be winning.

If you're not winning most of those it's very hard to get where you want to be.

It's no good Burnley winning at Chelsea if they don't beat Huddersfield and 3 other equivalents at home.

I remember a Utd player saying that Ferguson used to target home and away wins vs the teams in the bottom half as the bedrock of their season, then the other games would determine how well they ended up doing.

Obviously things don't go 100% the way that you plan but a basic expectation of 12 games vs bottom 6 and 12 vs top 6 would be fair to be (many) more points vs the former as we are better than them and should do well in those games.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on August 18, 2017, 08:09:09 PM
Yes but every team will look at the types of games they should be winning.

If you're not winning most of those it's very hard to get where you want to be.

It's no good Burnley winning at Chelsea if they don't beat Huddersfield and 3 other equivalents at home.

I remember a Utd player saying that Ferguson used to target home and away wins vs the teams in the bottom half as the bedrock of their season, then the other games would determine how well they ended up doing.

Obviously things don't go 100% the way that you plan but a basic expectation of 12 games vs bottom 6 and 12 vs top 6 would be fair to be (many) more points vs the former as we are better than them and should do well in those games.

All very true. However, Burnley will be feeling more hopeful about those key games having scored three 'unexpected' points. But one of our long term problems has been our mentality in away games against the big boys (knife in a gunfight mentality) and this is something that seems to have changed a little in the league. In their pomp, United were able to plan to win points like that. In Koeman I think we have a manager who is not afraid to plan to win 3 points at Stamford Bridge, the Emirates, in Manchester, and most of all at Anfield. That's the big game for me - if we are to seriously change the mentality, the high water mark is there. Winning there would also give the squad (and the fans) serious belief that we can be more than 'best of the rest'.

Of course that's not to suggest 3 points at Anfield is more important than 3 points anywhere else, but I don't expect Koeman to target trophy points.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: schleffera on August 19, 2017, 03:59:06 AM
While not disagreeing with you in general, we also need to take into account that any point against a top 6 team is a point they don't get, and thus lowers our target too.
..2 pts they don't get
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: The Analog Kid on August 19, 2017, 04:15:36 AM
Having scored a goal on Thursday and putting in a very good half he strolled off the pitch like he gived zero fucks, as if it was just another day to him.

He's extremely calm, looks far more settled than our more experienced centre halves.

I think him, and, dare I say it, John Stones, will make an amazing partnership for England.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Robioto on August 19, 2017, 05:17:32 AM
I honestly think he will prove to be our best signing of the Premier League era. Big statement, but I think he's that good.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Heisenberg on October 21, 2017, 03:37:11 AM
Shane Duffy is genuinely better than Keane
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: TheTone on October 21, 2017, 03:52:16 AM
Shane Duffy is genuinely better than Keane

 lolol
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on October 21, 2017, 03:54:57 AM
Shane Duffy is genuinely better than Keane

This place is really in a tail spin.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: TheTone on October 21, 2017, 03:57:55 AM
Shane Duffy is genuinely better than Keane

drink taken?
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 04:02:02 AM
To be fair Duffy probably isn't very good but the jury is still out as to if the same applies to Keane too.

It seems we have 2 camps when it comes to players. Them who are shite regardless and them who are shite only because of being dragged down by them who are shite regardless

Williams and Martina shite regardless. Keane and Baines shite because of Williams and Martina. I tend to think that maybe they are just all a bit shite
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: blue slug on October 21, 2017, 04:07:32 AM
Duffy is not better than Keane ffs lol
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 21, 2017, 04:07:51 AM
To be fair Duffy probably isn't very good but the jury is still out as to if the same applies to Keane too.

It seems we have 2 camps when it comes to players. Them who are shite regardless and them who are shite only because of being dragged down by them who are shite regardless

Williams and Martina shite regardless. Keane and Baines shite because of Williams and Martina. I tend to think that maybe they are just all a bit shite
No. You have two opinions..... Shite or really shite
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 04:12:45 AM
No. You have two opinions..... Shite or really shite

Fairs fair Im not far wrong am I. We've been absolutely shocking this season. There's about 5 players I actually quite like

Pickford (who was overpriced) Coleman, bolasie, lookman and Davies. The rest are all different degrees of shite. Williams though hasn't been any worse than Keane or Baines. Oddly though they get completely different reviews on here

Oh and vlasic looks okay too and barkley massively overrated by some but least he's useful
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 21, 2017, 04:45:36 AM
He’s not proven to be £30m worth of defender yet though has he.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Tofifee on October 21, 2017, 06:42:39 PM
Right now Duffy IS better than Keane
He is also better then Williams or Jags
We shouldnt have let him go
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 07:07:39 PM
Right now Duffy IS better than Keane
He is also better then Williams or Jags
We shouldnt have let him go

When did he leave? Also he might never have become the superstar he is today without them years of experience elsewhere. It's a bit of a nonsense saying we should never have sold him
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 21, 2017, 07:11:00 PM
@Simon Paul (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1) please delete the entire forum.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluedylan on October 21, 2017, 07:25:39 PM
Fairs fair Im not far wrong am I

Yes. You're frequently wrong. In fact a lot of the time you talk a load of old shite.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: TheRam on October 21, 2017, 07:27:31 PM
Fairs fair Im not far wrong am I. We've been absolutely shocking this season. There's about 5 players I actually quite like

Pickford (who was overpriced) Coleman, bolasie, lookman and Davies. The rest are all different degrees of shite. Williams though hasn't been any worse than Keane or Baines. Oddly though they get completely different reviews on here

Oh and vlasic looks okay too and barkley massively overrated by some but least he's useful

Can you please stop making every thread about you and your shit hyperbole opinions.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 21, 2017, 07:29:51 PM
Right now Duffy IS better than Keane
He is also better then Williams or Jags
We shouldnt have let him go
It took him 100 games to learn his position in a lower to look half decent. He wouldn’t have got that game time here Argument is he could’ve been loaned and kept on I suppose. He’s a good back-foot defender - as most Prem defenders are; blocking shots, winning headers and making last ditch tackles. But if he was in a ball-playing team that pushed-up, his lack of pace and athleticism would be exposed. Horses for courses and all that - Brighton suit him.

Oh, and milk turns faster than Duffy.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: gizzblue on October 21, 2017, 07:30:58 PM
Keane will be class no doubt ...but his confidence comes from trusting his defensive partner(Burnley apearances will atest this )....not something he can do easily at Everton ...no suprise he has his worst days alongside William's  (Yard dog at best now) imho.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 07:33:25 PM
Yes. You're frequently wrong. In fact a lot of the time you talk a load of old shite.

Just seems like every match day they prove me a little more right. Strongly opossed us signing rooney and Sigurdsson. Strongly opposed us waiting for Coleman and bolasie rather than going into the market and replacing them. Said Baines was finished. Said Keane was too expensive. Suggested baloteli last season and was told it was the worst suggestion the forum has ever seen (apparently worse than nugget, vassell or even joe hart for 40m)
It kind of seems, unfortunately, that my constant miserable posts aren't that wrong. Oh said we shouldn't pay all that money for Morgan too. I'm quite good at this. Said Baines was finished.

Maybe I could have walshs job
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 07:38:03 PM
Can you please stop making every thread about you and your shit hyperbole opinions.

About me. I give an opinion and I'm accused of bullying a player. Is it hyperbolt to suggest they've all been shit this season. You're watching something I'm not if it is. Im constantly accused of not liking any of them. Constantly accused of bullying this player or that when I question them. Oddly though saying Baines is finished is bullying and the contrast stream of abuse for Williams is not. The issue here is that I don't tow the party line. The all the young players are great line. The we can't slag Leighton Baines line. The rooney was shite for 3 years because he wasn't jolly line. The we've spent money on Sigurdsson so it's our job to be excited line

I fully accept I'm a miserable cunt but the reality is I'm currently right. We are to a man fucking shite
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 21, 2017, 07:43:19 PM
Moan moan fucking moan.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 07:45:35 PM
Moan moan fucking moan.

I'm not sure what else you imagine there currently is to do on an Everton forum. We are shit.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: toffee_scot on October 21, 2017, 07:47:38 PM
I think Keane will turn into a very good key defender for Everton, it's just at the moment, confidence throughout the team is very low and affecting the performances of many of the players including the ones who have only recently joined the club - it's even more challenging if you play as a defender who is the more likely person to receive direct criticism for any goal conceded.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluedylan on October 21, 2017, 07:48:01 PM
I'm not sure what else you imagine there currently is to do on an Everton forum. We are shit.

And you've made your point a million times over. Give it a fucking rest, you bore.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 07:54:55 PM
And you've made your point a million times over. Give it a fucking rest, you bore.

My point being what? Are you in the Williams thread telling everyone to give it a rest. Of course you aren't. People are allowed to not be massively optimistic about the players you are optimistic about. People are saying worse about Williams than I've said about any player. Hope he never plays for us again. Hate him. Gutted he can't be banned (that's after he was easily our best player) maybe you want to go tell them to give it a rest. Or maybe you want to mind your own fuckiny business and not tell people what the can and can't post based purely on if you agree with it or not.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluedylan on October 21, 2017, 08:10:32 PM
My point being what? Are you in the Williams thread telling everyone to give it a rest. Of course you aren't. People are allowed to not be massively optimistic about the players you are optimistic about. People are saying worse about Williams than I've said about any player. Hope he never plays for us again. Hate him. Gutted he can't be banned (that's after he was easily our best player) maybe you want to go tell them to give it a rest. Or maybe you want to mind your own fuckiny business and not tell people what the can and can't post based purely on if you agree with it or not.

It's not about agreement or disagreement. Think a little, it will help you.

I wanted Koeman gone ages ago, when it was pretty unfashionable to say it. Can't believe he's still here. We agree.

The point I'm making is that you're saying the same things over and over again on various threads, and it's tiresome wading through it. You've made your points, most people agree (apart from your DCL nonsense). You don't need to keep saying the same stuff over and over. We can read and we get it.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 10:24:26 PM
His pace is an issue, but he is also dropping far too deep. We're not trying to defend en masse like Burnley do, and it allows crosses to be deeper and leaves space on edge of the box. It's a pretty basic problem, but he turns slow, that if he does push out, he'll leave space in behind.

He's good on the ball and he's a proper old school defender like Jags in terms of eyes open, face first, I'm stopping the ball. But I could see a situation similar to Mertesacker at Arsenal, where he is useful with height at both ends and a decent defender, but it limits the ability of the team to push as far forward as most imposing teams do. Would probably be better as part of 3 at the back.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 21, 2017, 10:29:33 PM
Keane is a good player on bad form.  He's too young for this to be permanent.  Writing him off the likes of Shane Fucking Duffy is laughable.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 10:40:08 PM
Duffy has developed into a good defender playing regularly with Dunk at Brighton and for Ireland. Keane has more quality on the ball, but Duffy is far more mobile.

Think he's looking like one of the better defenders in the league and wouldn't be that surprised if Brighton receive interest in both central defenders next summer.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Gash on October 21, 2017, 11:05:13 PM
Duffy and mobile aren't two words I'd ever put together.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Duffy and mobile aren't two words I'd ever put together.

I only said more mobile than Keane.

It's a bit like someone being taller than Danny Devito.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 21, 2017, 11:16:15 PM
Even in an inflated market, I find it hard to believe Duffy ever goes for more than 10m
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 11:39:56 PM
Even in an inflated market, I find it hard to believe Duffy ever goes for more than 10m

He has a similar path to Michael Keane in several ways. Didn't get much game time at big club, loaned out lots, left at 21 and found a starting place to develop further down the food chain. Both are more typical old school defenders.

I'd say £20m+ would be needed to make Brighton even entertain the idea. I'd rather have Dunk and Duffy than any pairing of our centre backs currently.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Simon Paul on October 21, 2017, 11:41:39 PM
is this the same Shane Duffy people are talking about here?

may as well start the shouts for Victor Anichebe to come back as well eh?
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 21, 2017, 11:41:57 PM
He has a similar path to Michael Keane in several ways. Didn't get much game time at big club, loaned out lots, left at 21 and found a starting place to develop further down the food chain. Both are more typical old school defenders.

I'd say £20m+ would be needed to make Brighton even entertain the idea. I'd rather have Dunk and Duffy than any pairing of our centre backs currently.

You hit on an interesting point, in that I think the pairing, or at least the overall shape of our back four might be more of the problem than Keane individually.  He's just not capable of carrying us, and has fallen into a rut.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Coyb12 on October 21, 2017, 11:43:35 PM
Even in an inflated market, I find it hard to believe Duffy ever goes for more than 10m
I didn't mean to like that, fat fingers,if you could get Shane Duffy for under 10m I would be amazed.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 11:47:59 PM
is this the same Shane Duffy people are talking about here?

may as well start the shouts for Victor Anichebe to come back as well eh?

Or Mustafi or Dier?
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Silas on October 22, 2017, 12:43:55 AM
He's suffered with a lack of consistency next to him. He's had Jags and Williams rotating next to him and then Martina, Holgate and Kenny all randomly playing on the right side. It's hard to build up a level of form as a new player with a shifting defence. He's also had to play in a 3 and a 4. I think every single defender deserves a little bit of slack right now but Keane maybe moreso than anyone else.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 22, 2017, 01:06:37 AM
He's suffered with a lack of consistency next to him. He's had Jags and Williams rotating next to him and then Martina, Holgate and Kenny all randomly playing on the right side. It's hard to build up a level of form as a new player with a shifting defence. He's also had to play in a 3 and a 4. I think every single defender deserves a little bit of slack right now but Keane maybe moreso than anyone else.

It's hard to imagine, but maybe Funes Mori really would work well next to him?  They seems fairly complementary.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Martip on October 22, 2017, 01:54:08 AM
Hes been really poor so far but im hopi g its a result of the dross around him.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: wepull on October 22, 2017, 02:00:42 AM
I like Keane but I still think he gets dragged out of position quite easily. He has got good attributes for a CB and looks like a decent baller but he needs to mature a bit in this position which I believe will with more games under his belt.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Confucius on October 22, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
I think Duffy is exactly the type of player Koeman needs right now. Someone we can genuinely blame for being shit and not look at the manager cos it can't be his fault we losing, our defence has Shane Duffy in it.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 22, 2017, 02:11:55 PM
Keane is massively under performing. Not quite to the extent of Klaassen but still no where near the expected levels.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluedylan on October 22, 2017, 02:19:39 PM
Keane is massively under performing. Not quite to the extent of Klaassen but still no where near the expected levels.

Everyone is significantly underperforming. Tends to happen when the manager is proving to be largely incompetent. Let's have threads slagging off every player in the squad.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 22, 2017, 02:43:34 PM
Where has this Shane Duffy love in come from?

Is it just a knee jerk to Williams being crap because prior to that not once has he been metioned as one-that-got-away.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 05:00:24 PM
Where has this Shane Duffy love in come from?

Is it just a knee jerk to Williams being crap because prior to that not once has he been metioned as one-that-got-away.

From having watched him play a fair bit and more recently.

And to be clear, I wasn't saying we should definitely get him. Just that he has developed into important player for club and country and would command a decent fee.

He's currently 2nd in PL for combined blocks, clearances and interceptions and Brighton have better defensive record than us, so just seems like outdated opinions.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Silas on October 22, 2017, 07:08:39 PM
From having watched him play a fair bit and more recently.

And to be clear, I wasn't saying we should definitely get him. Just that he has developed into important player for club and country and would command a decent fee.

He's currently 2nd in PL for combined blocks, clearances and interceptions and Brighton have better defensive record than us, so just seems like outdated opinions.

There's a reasonable argument that he's now a good defender who would be decent for us. There isn't an argument whatsoever though that we missed a trick by not letting him go at the time, not that I am saying you are the one saying that.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 07:15:07 PM
There's a reasonable argument that he's now a good defender who would be decent for us. There isn't an argument whatsoever though that we missed a trick by not letting him go at the time, not that I am saying you are the one saying that.

Yep, totally agree
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:08:24 PM
He’s utter shit
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ravardo on October 22, 2017, 10:24:12 PM
He's a better defender than Stones with better passing, Stones hasn't been great for City.
I don't want a centre half who goes on big runs, his primary goal should be defending
I'd prefer Keane to Stones all day

Things change quickly dont they
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on October 22, 2017, 10:26:15 PM
And thats why u get so much shit realist. Learn fella, most of us have. Nowt wrong with being a happy-miserable git :)
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Coyb12 on October 22, 2017, 10:29:13 PM
Everything seems very laboured with him.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:29:20 PM
And thats why u get so much shit realist. Learn fella, most of us have. Nowt wrong with being a happy-miserable git :)

Come on man, I’m just being honest, he’s extremely bad
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Coyney83 on October 22, 2017, 10:42:11 PM
One of the lads who I work with used to scout for Burnley.

I spoke to him when we signed Keane and he remarked that he is very solid, dominant in the air and a relatively good passer of the ball, without being a John Stones type. He did go on to say however, that the Burnley backroom staff recognised that Keane plays best in a narrow back four when he has the protection of a full back tucked in close. He isn't good when isolated or when needed to go out to the flanks as he has a tendency to loose his positioning/spatial awareness and be easily bypassed. Given how lacking in formation we are currently, our centre halves (whoever they may be week to week) are being pulled into the flanks far too often leaving huge gaps in the middle.

It feels too soon to judge him, particularly given the number of different people he has had playing next to him, but fair to say he is totally lacking confidence at the moment.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Martip on October 22, 2017, 10:45:40 PM
One of the lads who I work with used to scout for Burnley.

I spoke to him when we signed Keane and he remarked that he is very solid, dominant in the air and a relatively good passer of the ball, without being a John Stones type. He did go on to say however, that the Burnley backroom staff recognised that Keane plays best in a narrow back four when he has the protection of a full back tucked in close. He isn't good when isolated or when needed to go out to the flanks as he has a tendency to loose his positioning/spatial awareness and be easily bypassed. Given how lacking in formation we are currently, our centre halves (whoever they may be week to week) are being pulled into the flanks far too often leaving huge gaps in the middle.

It feels too soon to judge him, particularly given the number of different people he has had playing next to him, but fair to say he is totally lacking confidence at the moment.
Interesting post makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 04:50:30 PM
One of the lads who I work with used to scout for Burnley.

I spoke to him when we signed Keane and he remarked that he is very solid, dominant in the air and a relatively good passer of the ball, without being a John Stones type. He did go on to say however, that the Burnley backroom staff recognised that Keane plays best in a narrow back four when he has the protection of a full back tucked in close. He isn't good when isolated or when needed to go out to the flanks as he has a tendency to loose his positioning/spatial awareness and be easily bypassed. Given how lacking in formation we are currently, our centre halves (whoever they may be week to week) are being pulled into the flanks far too often leaving huge gaps in the middle.

It feels too soon to judge him, particularly given the number of different people he has had playing next to him, but fair to say he is totally lacking confidence at the moment.

You can see that in his play, he's a very simple defender who is pretty good at the basics. For £30m though you'd like to have a bit more though and although he's got time on his side and very low on confidence I don't think think he's impressed that much to be honest. For a young lad he's pretty slow and he's not as mobile as I thought he'd be. I also thought he'd be a bit more of a leader coming from Man U and from what he showed at Burnley.

I guess we'll not really find out how good our summer signings are until they are under different management so they can now start afresh, again.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Thornton_19 on October 23, 2017, 05:06:13 PM
I feel bad for him, every game he is alongside a different RB and CB.
How is he meant to get any consistency or develop partnerships.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Rhys on October 23, 2017, 05:20:55 PM
I feel bad for him, every game he is alongside a different RB and CB.
How is he meant to get any consistency or develop partnerships.

I think this is a general point as well for players around the pitch.

We hardly ever have 2 games in a row with the same system, a lot of the games we arent having the same system for the start of the second half that we had in the first! So for Keane it isnt just having a different centre half and right back next to him, it can also be changing from a back 3 to a back 4 one half to next or one game to next. How can you settle or get some consistency in what you are doing when that is happening.

But as I said thats the same for centre midfielders, wide players people all over the pitch. No coincidence that Leicester had the run they had 2 years ago, Chelsea same last year where they had the same system game after game and players playing the same roles game after game. We might have to rotate players with the number of games we have had but there is no excuse for him changing the system as often as he is doing.

It would be much easier for the players to try and get some consistency in their play and form if they knew the system they were playing and their role in that system inside out.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 05:25:39 PM
I think this is a general point as well for players around the pitch.

We hardly ever have 2 games in a row with the same system, a lot of the games we arent having the same system for the start of the second half that we had in the first! So for Keane it isnt just having a different centre half and right back next to him, it can also be changing from a back 3 to a back 4 one half to next or one game to next. How can you settle or get some consistency in what you are doing when that is happening.

But as I said thats the same for centre midfielders, wide players people all over the pitch. No coincidence that Leicester had the run they had 2 years ago, Chelsea same last year where they had the same system game after game and players playing the same roles game after game. We might have to rotate players with the number of games we have had but there is no excuse for him changing the system as often as he is doing.

It would be much easier for the players to try and get some consistency in their play and form if they knew the system they were playing and their role in that system inside out.

Might this have something to do with it?

"But I don't know. For every manager working with 28-29 players, you can't keep everybody happy. That's my opinion but I don't know."

Maybe he's trying to juggle everyone and pleasing no-one.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 23, 2017, 05:58:24 PM
Don't put Keane in a back 4 at the moment, he's been dropping too deep, it's what he's done for last few years. On the rare occasions he hasn't dropped too deep, another player will assume he has. Top teams can't afford to have 8 players defending deep every game, and we don't setup that way. It leaves the space in front of defence to pick passes.

I'd be interested to see how many times players have been caught offside against us, because I can hardly remember it happening this season. It's just an issue we can't afford to offer, unless we have a counter attack, which we don't, he is the slowest relay runner and it stretches the team and leaves us vulnerable

It's still something he can learn and improve, but let him do it out the team, and use the experienced players to settle things. Jags and Williams are not fantastic, but they are our best combination at present, given situation. Alternatively teach Pickford to shout "fuck off" like a reversing sensor for defence.

I don't think Jags or Williams can cover the deficit, maybe Holgate and/or Funes Mori could long term. 18 yard line is deep enough until ball is there, Pickford doesn't command the box that much, and I do think Keane would be more comfortable with Robles behind him.

Maybe work Keane back in gradually and as needs, but probably with pitch size in consideration and get him to hold a higher line, build partnership with Holgate with his pace on the backtrack. Use both sets at different times, but get some familiarity and organisation.

I was wondering the other day if he'd work best as like a some sort of sweeper in a back 3 because of pace issues, he is tidy on the ball and can come forward with it, while he can catch up with play and be an aerial threat at both ends. Maybe even get him knocking long passes and build some of our creative play around him, would be a strange system.

But would mean we could play more attacking midfielders in central positions, while also freeing him up to chase aerial balls and not have to worry about the back line or runners. Maybe even sneak him further forward like Fellaini for a bit of a chuckle every now and then or if we're behind. He actually has looked more comfortable on the ball than I was expecting. Not sure he's good enough to warrant that sort of role, but was trying to think how you'd get the best out of him and I ended up with an inverted Fellaini.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 06:02:08 PM
He just needs a lot of pace around him to look decent and a keeper/sweeper to mop up when he gets done over the top for pace.

So basically we're needing to spend over £30m to make our £30m defender look better. Which is just so typically Everton. 
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: hill135 on October 23, 2017, 06:07:59 PM
Is this the folly of buying the best players from bottom half teams?

Keane looked good for Burnley but in a very specific system where the full backs were narrow, the midfield deep and he could concentrate on defending a very small part of the pitch. Defending on the half way line with less protection is a completely different ball game and you'd hope we'd factored this in to our scouting.

Although it's probably unfair to judge as the entire team is fucked from front to back.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 06:10:13 PM
Is this the folly of buying the best players from bottom half teams?

Keane looked good for Burnley but in a very specific system where the full backs were narrow, the midfield deep and he could concentrate on defending a very small part of the pitch. Defending on the half way line with less protection is a completely different ball game and you'd hope we'd factored this in to our scouting.

Although it's probably unfair to judge as the entire team is fucked from front to back.

True. He's getting no protection even though we play two defensive midfielders and he's been asked to play with Martina and his walkabouts, Holgate and his rashness and inexperience and Kenny who is just out of short trousers. That's not even going into the rotating old men to his left.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 23, 2017, 06:28:54 PM
I feel bad for him, every game he is alongside a different RB and CB.
How is he meant to get any consistency or develop partnerships.

that quote covers so much thats wrong with our team.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Hawkandro on October 23, 2017, 06:43:13 PM
He just needs a lot of pace around him to look decent and a keeper/sweeper to mop up when he gets done over the top for pace.

So basically we're needing to spend over £30m to make our £30m defender look better. Which is just so typically Everton. 

We all know that anyway, even Koeman knows that, hence his demand for a left-sided CB.

Baines is coming to the end now, as is Jags and Williams, Holgate and Kenny are still very raw and Martina is bang average. With Keane, Pickford and Coleman we have the starting blocks, but we need another LB and another 2 (at least) CBs to form a new defence.

The rebuilding task is mammoth here.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 06:44:18 PM
We all know that anyway, even Koeman knows that, hence his demand for a left-sided CB.

Baines is coming to the end now, as is Jags and Williams, Holgate and Kenny are still very raw and Martina is bang average. With Keane, Pickford and Coleman we have the starting blocks, but we need another LB and another 2 (at least) CBs to form a new defence.

The rebuilding task is mammoth here.

Add a couple of strikers and you're talking another £100m.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Hawkandro on October 23, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Add a couple of strikers and you're talking another £100m.


Aye. It's a huge task. Need some wingers too.

Either we will find that guy to take us forward (be it Unsworth or someone else) and be here for 5-10 years and build the team, or we will do a Palace. Could go either way at moment.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Ridge on October 23, 2017, 07:37:17 PM
I think a problem makes everything around look like a problem too. Not a lot of the other components have changed and it's been clear for a while that we are defending like a team fighting relegation.

Pickford has been a decent shot stopper and he's good on the ball, and while he's not commanding, neither is De Gea. And it's generally more of an additional benefit to come out as you do take risk, as long as he does come for the easy ones in and around goalmouth that Pickford does.

Goalkeeper is not crucial to shape of team, and if it is, you've got the wrong keeper. I see no reason for defenders to be blowing Pickford's nose and wiping his bum. And maybe he gives bad commands or spreads anxiety and that's part of the issue for Keane and others. But it's certainly the defenders positioning and movement that is suspect and I think it's fairly clear one of the main problems is Keane.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: MrWhite on October 23, 2017, 09:08:00 PM
Dyche is favourite with the bookies, maybe that would do Michael a world of good.

On the other hand, you can get 40/1 on Roberto returning, which is clearly bunk. ;D
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 09:17:01 PM
Dyche isn't sexy enough for Moshiri. Nothing in that but just a hunch that he won't want a guy who looks like an assistant manager at Dixons fronting his exciting new stadium project.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: boothill on October 23, 2017, 09:59:06 PM
Dyche isn't sexy enough for Moshiri. Nothing in that but just a hunch that he won't want a guy who looks like an assistant manager at Dixons fronting his exciting new stadium project.
Absolutely spot on with the dixons shout, can easily see him asking if you want the extended warranty
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: TheTone on October 23, 2017, 10:01:11 PM
Dyche isn't sexy enough for Moshiri. Nothing in that but just a hunch that he won't want a guy who looks like an assistant manager at Dixons fronting his exciting new stadium project.

 lolol  :hail:
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: montanatoffeefan on October 24, 2017, 06:06:30 AM
Dyche is favourite with the bookies, maybe that would do Michael a world of good.

Funny that we can now finally start to fairly judge the players Koeman brought in only now that Koeman's out.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: brap2 on October 24, 2017, 06:24:23 AM
I'm really, really not convinced of him tbh. He's extremely slow and doesn't seem too strong either. Potentially just a good body-in-the-way type defender. Like a more limited Jags.

Not a terrible thing to be but he's clearly been asked to lead out backline and he's not done a great job of it.

Would like to see a van dijk / koulibaly / de ligt type next to him. Ball player who can defend on the front foot, and allow Keane to drop back and be a reasonably comfortable deep cb who can head long balls, which I think he would excel at.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Martip on November 19, 2017, 04:56:24 AM
Rubbish again today :headbang:
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 19, 2017, 04:58:38 AM
He was very poor today tbf.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: therealdunc on November 19, 2017, 05:03:25 AM
A side from his complete lack of pace and being weak in the air, he is awful at reading the game.

He responds to the game, he is incapable of reading movement or learning opposition player habits
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Martip on November 19, 2017, 05:51:07 AM
A side from his complete lack of pace and being weak in the air, he is awful at reading the game.

He responds to the game, he is incapable of reading movement or learning opposition player habits
Agree with all that
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: ally2 on November 19, 2017, 06:01:02 AM
Wasn't very good today but I couldn't say why - ability or form. I won't come to any conclusion about him until he is playing in a semi-competent back four that that have at least average abilities in their own rights and form a stable defensive group. That will take a long time though, and I'm wary that it is one hell of an excuse.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: everton1952 on November 19, 2017, 06:07:03 AM
Dyche must have rated him, and Dyche is a very, very, very good manager.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 19, 2017, 10:08:26 PM
work with some Burnley fans, at the time they said they weren't bothered about Keane leaving as long as they still had Ben Mee they wouldn't miss him and that's how it's turned out. When we beat them at ours last year he was very poor and he's not improved, but who has lately.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 10:20:47 PM
work with some Burnley fans, at the time they said they weren't bothered about Keane leaving as long as they still had Ben Mee they wouldn't miss him and that's how it's turned out. When we beat them at ours last year he was very poor and he's not improved, but who has lately.

A lot of that will be bravado though. If he turned us down and signed a new contract with them he'd all of a sudden be the dogs bollocks again.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 19, 2017, 10:23:26 PM
A lot of that will be bravado though. If he turned us down and signed a new contract with them he'd all of a sudden be the dogs bollocks again.
Wasn't bravado they just rated others well in front of Keane and they haven't missed him at all so they were right.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 10:25:40 PM
He looks sluggish and not very commanding but see if we can get a decent centre back in January and have a look at him then.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: brap2 on November 19, 2017, 11:35:25 PM
99% sure he’s actually garbage.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 11:39:59 PM
Remember when Jags first joined, he was awful too.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 11:43:19 PM
Defo not garbage. Like all the other new players, it's very hard to judge him given the shambles he's walked into. Maldini would look shaky in our team at the moment.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Confucius on November 20, 2017, 12:46:20 AM
He needs to be more decisive and he will be fine, step in and get a boot on it, or get his head in there. Build the base first, the nice passing will come next. Needs Rhino to teach him how to defend.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on November 20, 2017, 12:51:09 AM
Remember when Jags first joined, he was awful too.

We played him defensive midfield and then right back, which for a player whose weakness is his distribution wasn't much of a surprise.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 20, 2017, 12:51:45 AM
Remember when Jags first joined, he was awful too.

And Brett angel too. Most of the players who were awful when they first joined..... just turned out to be awful
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Cozzie on November 20, 2017, 01:35:22 AM
Reckon we have signed a dud tbh.

Only my early impressions like, but like Bluedylan said he is, in fairness, playing in an incredibly slow and ageing defence and behind a disorganized defensive midfield duo.

Tactics don't help him one bit and I always think when your CB partner is shite you are effectively doing the job of 2 players, which he is.

As much as I love Jags he is a bit too old now, Williams is hopeless, Funes Mori bang average and mental and Holgate not ready yet.

Still reckon there is a good player there, he certainly wasn't shite at Burnley and the way they played suited him. Another top CB next to him with a manager that knows how to set up and we will see an improvement I reckon.

Still long way to go but if I am to judge him based on what I have seen so far he has been pathetic.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: TheRam on November 20, 2017, 01:39:58 AM
Looks like a complete plodder at the moment.

I wonder if we actually scouted these players we bought.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 20, 2017, 03:09:33 AM
hes poor. Maybe Williams and jagielka will look better alongside a quality centre half too. Keane is every bit as much of the problem as they are.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Heisenberg on November 20, 2017, 03:23:37 AM
Mentioned this as a few times over the past month or so. I see him as a kind of secondary CB. His performance will always be dependent on the man next to him, which is never what you want. I don't really see any character or personality in his play at all. He's a back against the wall defender. Good when the defenders and midfielders are really compact protecting something. Not very good in one on one type of situation and turns like he's just finished 5 roast dinners
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 21, 2017, 06:39:18 AM
Don't like quoting this gonk in here but he's spot on:

“Defending is about being focused. It is not a quality problem. Focus on a situation. When we have the ball be an option to receive it or, if you cannot be an option, give protection. Simple as that. It is not about counter-pressing all the time. Yes, if we can counter-press, then do it. If not, go back and defend together. That is the thing we have lacked in one or two games and I think, and I hope, that we are now a step further in this. Our ‘new’ maturity we will have to show 100% in this atmosphere tomorrow.” J. Klopp

Ahem....
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 21, 2017, 01:30:20 PM
Mentioned this as a few times over the past month or so. I see him as a kind of secondary CB. His performance will always be dependent on the man next to him, which is never what you want. I don't really see any character or personality in his play at all. He's a back against the wall defender. Good when the defenders and midfielders are really compact protecting something. Not very good in one on one type of situation and turns like he's just finished 5 roast dinners
Yep, he’s a backfoot defender who excels in a compact, organised system - same as Williams.

I see him as another example of the disconnect between Koeman and Walsh. Why would Koeman, who had VVD at Soton; a mobile defender would could play out from the back, suddenly want slow players who are shite on the ball? I know players of VVD’s quality aren’t too common, but isn’t that why we brought Walsh in? We could have at least tried to buy defenders with similar characteristics. Not like money was the issue.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: therealdunc on November 21, 2017, 03:39:00 PM
One thing that no no seems to mention in defence of the defenders, Pickford isn’t great and likes to push them back out to the opposition.

Surprising how Pickford has avoided criticism when he’s been liable for a few goals
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Rodenplav64 on November 21, 2017, 05:23:47 PM
Reckon we have signed a dud tbh.

Only my early impressions like, but like Bluedylan said he is, in fairness, playing in an incredibly slow and ageing defence and behind a disorganized defensive midfield duo.

Tactics don't help him one bit and I always think when your CB partner is shite you are effectively doing the job of 2 players, which he is.

As much as I love Jags he is a bit too old now, Williams is hopeless, Funes Mori bang average and mental and Holgate not ready yet.

Still reckon there is a good player there, he certainly wasn't shite at Burnley and the way they played suited him. Another top CB next to him with a manager that knows how to set up and we will see an improvement I reckon.

Still long way to go but if I am to judge him based on what I have seen so far he has been pathetic.


Yep he would look better if we played with 11 behind the ball like Burnley did .
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Rodenplav64 on November 21, 2017, 05:24:50 PM
One thing that no no seems to mention in defence of the defenders, Pickford isn’t great and likes to push them back out to the opposition.

Surprising how Pickford has avoided criticism when he’s been liable for a few goals

On the ' not to be criticised ' list it seems . Like you say despite several stupid mistakes .
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: gizzblue on November 21, 2017, 05:57:40 PM
On the ' not to be criticised ' list it seems . Like you say despite several stupid mistakes .
There's a whole thread were plenty of criticism of Pickford goes on .😅😅
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluenose 91 on November 21, 2017, 06:49:48 PM
Pickford is way, way down the list of our current problems right now.

Couple of situations lately where he could have done better but how many clear chances do we concede a game? He can't save everything perfectly.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Tofifee on November 22, 2017, 01:16:23 AM
in a team without a single decent defender or striker, our keeper is the least of our problems mate!
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: therealdunc on November 22, 2017, 03:24:36 AM
One thing in Keanes favour is his age, can improve, grow in confidence and hopefully be suitable enough for a place in the Everton team that wins the league next season
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Confucius on November 22, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Amazing how keeper isn't a problem this year with such a weak defence where as last year keeper was the major problem and we have the same defenders plus a new better CB than the others. Weird that.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: TheTone on November 22, 2017, 03:04:03 PM
One thing in Keanes favour is his age, can improve, grow in confidence and hopefully be suitable enough for a place in the Everton team that wins the league championship next season

fixed
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Bluenose 91 on November 22, 2017, 04:03:54 PM
Amazing how keeper isn't a problem this year with such a weak defence where as last year keeper was the major problem and we have the same defenders plus a new better CB than the others. Weird that.

Because the defenders (and defensive midfielders) were more organised and playing a lot better last season.  It's not really that hard.

Pickford is by far the strongest member of our defence at the minute and he's infinitely better than our other options in his position.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: cantoffee on November 22, 2017, 05:38:31 PM
I do wonder if we bought the wrong CB from burnley.

Ben Mee was more of a standout last year when I watched them play and was more willing to defend on the front foot and put his foot on the ball.

Of course, he may not be suited to playing for a team that plays higher up the pitch or perhaps it's just form in a bad team, but Keane hasn't looked great so far.
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Macca77 on November 22, 2017, 07:22:38 PM
Keane will come good, 100% certain of that
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on November 22, 2017, 09:58:28 PM
Keane has all the things he needs in his locker, to become a great centre back, he just needs better coaching and better players around him. We will sort that out.... eventually!
Title: Re: Michael Keane
Post by: Lxxx on November 22, 2017, 10:19:11 PM
Keane will come good, 100% certain of that

I tend to agree, although I wouldn't be 100% certain of it.