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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: stirlingblue on August 30, 2017, 08:28:23 PM

Title: Cuco Martina
Post by: stirlingblue on August 30, 2017, 08:28:23 PM
Talking about incoming transfers is depressing, so let's have a chat about Martina instead, what are people's thoughts so far?

I was very worried based on the reviews from Southampton fans but have been pleasantly surprised. He's not the strongest defensively but has been a real outlet on the right hand side going forward.

If we're going to keep playing 5ATB I think he should be first choice until Coleman returns unless Kenny is looking ready to step up to Prem level
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on August 30, 2017, 08:30:46 PM
Put some decent crosses in. That's about it.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: BlueBeagle on August 30, 2017, 08:32:16 PM
Adequate cover.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lincs Toffee on August 30, 2017, 08:44:34 PM
Linked up well with Lookman I thought and as said puts in a killer cross, bit shit at the defending bit though
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on August 30, 2017, 08:46:20 PM
Definitely used to play winger at school, there's a frustrated one still lurking in there.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: stirlingblue on August 30, 2017, 08:49:27 PM
Definitely used to play winger at school, there's a frustrated one still lurking in there.

Yeah, said that during the match thread a few times.

Given how short of width we are, it's no bad thing. Converted wingers are all the rage in the 5ATB system like Moses, Valencia, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Sane
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Macca77 on August 30, 2017, 08:49:50 PM
A bit shit
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: velimski on August 30, 2017, 08:58:46 PM
 :Lennon:
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on August 30, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
Yeah, said that during the match thread a few times.

Given how short of width we are, it's no bad thing. Converted wingers are all the rage in the 5ATB system like Moses, Valencia, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Sane

He can put a mean cross in and he scored a worldie for Southampton from the edge of the box. Imagine if Koeman put him wide right one cup game and he bossed it. He's not great at defending so it's not like he'd be missed at the back.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Hawkandro on August 30, 2017, 09:19:50 PM
He hasn't been too bad for me, but I wish we would have given JJ Kenny the chance instead. That is my only negative.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Toddacelli on August 30, 2017, 09:46:03 PM
Decent.

Below where we need to be but better than the calamity I was expecting.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on August 30, 2017, 09:51:56 PM
It's a travesty he's kept Jonjoe Kenny out of the team.

I think Martina is ace at crossing but Kenny is quite a good crosser as well and I think offers more in every other way.

At the end of the day, now that Martina is part of the team I'll back him anyway yet it seems we've settled for attacking choice (Martina) or defensive choice (Holgate) when Jonjoe might have been both!
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on August 30, 2017, 09:53:38 PM
It's a travesty he's kept Jonjoe Kenny out of the team.

I think Martina is ace at crossing but Kenny is quite a good crosser as well and I think offers more in every other way.

At the end of the day, now that Martina is part of the team I'll back him anyway yet it seems we've settled for attacking choice (Martina) or defensive choice (Holgate) when Jonjoe might have been both!

Or neither, as he's untested at any level above U-23's.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on August 30, 2017, 09:55:58 PM
Or neither, as he's untested at any level above U-23's.

Would you agree though, Kenny has looked very promising in the relatively low amount of first-team minutes he has been given? That even stretches back to the game Unsworth managed...

I think Koeman has only given him the odd 20 minutes here and there but in those minutes he never made a defensive error and always supplied 2-3 crosses.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on August 30, 2017, 10:01:25 PM
Would you agree though, Kenny has looked very promising in the relatively low amount of first-team minutes he has been given? That even stretches back to the game Unsworth managed...

I think Koeman has only given him the odd 20 minutes here and there but in those minutes he never made a defensive error and always supplied 2-3 crosses.

I do actually, just playing devil's advocate. Koeman probably thinks there are enough kids in his squad so even though Kenny probably would have made an impact he doesn't want the balance to be too light on experience. Kenny was probably one too many.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on August 30, 2017, 10:03:31 PM
I do actually, just playing devil's advocate. Koeman probably thinks there are enough kids in his squad so even though Kenny probably would have made an impact he doesn't want the balance to be too light on experience. Kenny was probably one too many.

Very good reasoning in my book, and I like the keeping the debate going aspect as well. I suppose it is a postive sign Kenny is still in the first-team, just not playing yet.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: kramer0 on August 30, 2017, 10:06:52 PM
I feel for Holgate. He plays one bad defensive header against City and Sterling smashes the ball into net, towards the end of an otherwise pristine performance against one of the best attacking sides in the world.

Meanwhile, against Split, Martina plays sloppy passes into the winger pressing him, bombs forward when there's no angle for him to receive the ball (leaving the entire right side open behind him), lets his man get goal side of him on what should have been a simple throw-in to defend, wanders into the middle of the box leaving his winger in tons of space on the far side when a cross beats everybody, and somehow comes out unscathed. He's a ticking time bomb defensively.

He's certainly quick and he's good at drilling in first time crosses. But defensively, he's all over the place in a way that I find genuinely terrifying. He seems like a good guy and he's done incredibly well to grind his way up to a club at our level but I don't want to see him on the team sheet. We're too good to have a player this bad defensively at right back.

For those of you who can handle the defensive madness... you're much stronger than I am.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 30, 2017, 10:14:46 PM
Koeman doesn't rate Kenny. Fourth choice
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on August 30, 2017, 10:21:45 PM
Koeman doesn't rate Kenny. Fourth choice

It's weird though isn't it? Kenny is not just a promising young player, he was captain for Everton and one of the stand-out, consistent, performers in the England U20s.

He's done well in the few first-team opportunties he's  been given. Must look below the rest in training?
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Evertonian in NC on August 30, 2017, 10:23:00 PM
I feel for Holgate. He plays one bad defensive header against City and Sterling smashes the ball into net, towards the end of an otherwise pristine performance against one of the best attacking sides in the world.

Meanwhile, against Split, Martina plays sloppy passes into the winger pressing him, bombs forward when there's no angle for him to receive the ball (leaving the entire right side open behind him), lets his man get goal side of him on what should have been a simple throw-in to defend, wanders into the middle of the box leaving his winger in tons of space on the far side when a cross beats everybody, and somehow comes out unscathed. He's a ticking time bomb defensively.

He's certainly quick and he's good at drilling in first time crosses. But defensively, he's all over the place in a way that I find genuinely terrifying. He seems like a good guy and he's done incredibly well to grind his way up to a club at our level but I don't want to see him on the team sheet. We're too good to have a player this bad defensively at right back.

For those of you who can handle the defensive madness... you're much stronger than I am.

Holgate is very physical and seems to elevate his game against the strongest attacking sides like City.  That unfortunate mistake aside.  He still rated an 8 in the match ratings that I saw, and I would agree.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lazarou on August 30, 2017, 10:27:13 PM
Grim that this is the most positive active thread with 1 day ish to go until the window shuts  :o

Done okay few decent crosses etc.

Was not trusted to start against Citeh or Chelsea so not sure Koeman trusts him that much.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on August 30, 2017, 10:34:31 PM
Koeman doesn't rate Kenny. Fourth choice

I don't think he necessarily doesn't rate him it's just that he's the youngest and least experienced.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: bigmanbob on August 30, 2017, 10:34:40 PM
I slaughtered him for the first few games as he was awful but he has got better offensively. This might sound a bit daft but if we want a more attacking wing back I'd go for Martina but if we want a bit more solidity I'd go with Holgate. It makes you appreciate just how fucking boss Coleman is
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: kramer0 on September 24, 2017, 07:43:04 PM
He has some value as a wing back but every time he starts in a back four, I die a little inside.

Watch their goal again. Martina chases the ball to the edge of their defensive third, the defender slips a pass around him, and Bournemouth have an instant advantage going forward. Holgate, Schneiderlin, and Williams did poorly during that sequence but it's a big ask for them to cover all of the space Martina vacated in hopeful pursuit of the ball. If Jonjoe Kenny was that clueless tactically, he wouldn't be picked for the England U20s, let alone Everton.

He's Koeman's player but I'm blaming Steve Walsh for this. If he has as much influence over transfers as we're led to believe, he should have said "absolutely not" when Koeman brought him the name. You only have to watch a handful of games to see that this guy can't defend.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 09:17:41 PM
He has some value as a wing back but every time he starts in a back four, I die a little inside.

Watch their goal again. Martina chases the ball to the edge of their defensive third, the defender slips a pass around him, and Bournemouth have an instant advantage going forward. Holgate, Schneiderlin, and Williams did poorly during that sequence but it's a big ask for them to cover all of the space Martina vacated in hopeful pursuit of the ball. If Jonjoe Kenny was that clueless tactically, he wouldn't be picked for the England U20s, let alone Everton.

He's Koeman's player but I'm blaming Steve Walsh for this. If he has as much influence over transfers as we're led to believe, he should have said "absolutely not" when Koeman brought him the name. You only have to watch a handful of games to see that this guy can't defend.


For the Bournemouth goal yesterday, Martina, Williams and Schneiderlin where doing nothing, only Holgate was tracking his man, the other 3 where just all over the place, yet Holgate got blamed for trying to slide in and win the ball..
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 24, 2017, 09:19:58 PM
His crossing was terrible yesterday. He's like an old school right back trying to play wing back.

As soon as Kenny come on our defensive work down the right improved massively, as well as our attacking on that side. I think Martina will just be cover from now on.

Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Realist on September 24, 2017, 09:29:19 PM
He's just a proper shit player
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Stumpy on September 24, 2017, 09:36:24 PM
It's shameful martina gets a shirt before Kenny.Martina's crossing yesterday was pathetic.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: ally2 on September 24, 2017, 10:05:17 PM
Yes he's shit. First he was shit, then he was good, now he's shit again. That was all in the last month I think.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: brap2 on September 24, 2017, 10:12:46 PM
He's not the problem but he shouldn't be playing. Kenny looks ready.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 24, 2017, 10:28:44 PM
Agree with all the comments regarding cuco,but the fact is koeman had a dilemma in Seamus,s injury an unproven kenny and holgate.With the qualifiers,pre season and tough league fixtures he had a decision to make.Knowing seamus would be back at some stage you needed a fall guy as cover and cheap,and that gentlemen is exactly what we got.
I also think holgate would have started at right back yesterday,if it wasnt for injurys to the centre backs.When everything is back to normal,an under contract cuco will bring in a few bob in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 10:31:00 PM
Yes he's shit. First he was shit, then he was good, now he's shit again. That was all in the last month I think.

i've never said Martina was any good, always seen him as championship player.

Kennys been ready fro a while, many knew this but they get shitted on, as Koeman knows best.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Martip on September 24, 2017, 10:42:47 PM
Let's call a spade a spade. He's shit. What concerns  me more is that koeman managed him before so must have seen him play.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Realist on September 24, 2017, 11:10:15 PM
Agree with all the comments regarding cuco,but the fact is koeman had a dilemma in Seamus,s injury an unproven kenny and holgate.With the qualifiers,pre season and tough league fixtures he had a decision to make.Knowing seamus would be back at some stage you needed a fall guy as cover and cheap,and that gentlemen is exactly what we got.
I also think holgate would have started at right back yesterday,if it wasnt for injurys to the centre backs.When everything is back to normal,an under contract cuco will bring in a few bob in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on September 24, 2017, 11:19:23 PM
I can see why he was bought, you can't go into a new season with two young lads at full back, one who had never played a first team game and the other who hasn't played that much more either and doesn't look comfortable there. It was a sensible signing for no money and probably very average wages. If Kenny forces him out of the side it's no biggie, just an experiment that didn't really work.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 07:36:27 AM
imany knew this but they get shitted on, as Koeman knows best.

You have a real chip on your shoulder over this, don't you? No one has shitted on anyone for saying Kenny should get a shot. Some have aired on the side of caution, which is completley logical. Let's not forget that Galloway was "better than Baines" only a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: blueski on September 25, 2017, 08:05:47 AM
this might be unfashionable to say on here but after the last few games I don't think hes shit/wank or whatever you want to say about him

could you use some sort of extreme positive adjective? no. but shit? no.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 08:19:53 AM
I think he'd be more suited to playing as an actual right winger. We don't set up like that, so he wont.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: bogie on September 25, 2017, 08:22:13 AM
You have a real chip on your shoulder over this, don't you? No one has shitted on anyone for saying Kenny should get a shot. Some have aired on the side of caution, which is completley logical. Let's not forget that Galloway was "better than Baines" only a couple of years ago.

the Galloway at left back shit most likely lost us a good young left back getting game time

look get it out of you head that Galloway is a left back he is not

and out of the 2 defenders we sent to sunderland the other lad is doing way better
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 08:23:38 AM
the Galloway at left back shit most likely lost us a good young left back getting game time

look get it out of you head that Galloway is a left back he is not

and out of the 2 defenders we sent to sunderland the other lad is doing way better

I'm not sure what your point is?
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: bogie on September 25, 2017, 08:24:34 AM
I'm not sure what your point is?

Galloway was never better than Baines at left back
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 08:26:19 AM
Galloway was never better than Baines at left back

I know... my point was a lot of fans got over excited by a couple of good performances at LB and proceeded to claim he should dispose Baines for good, which was a mad shout.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: bogie on September 25, 2017, 08:28:11 AM
I know... my point was a lot of fans got over excited by a couple of good performances at LB and proceeded to claim he should dispose Baines for good, which was a mad shout.

lol yeah but they were on the roberto coolaid
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: bluenuck on September 25, 2017, 10:31:19 AM
this might be unfashionable to say on here but after the last few games I don't think hes shit/wank or whatever you want to say about him

could you use some sort of extreme positive adjective? no. but shit? no.

I agree totally. He is what he is. It's not shit and it's not great. He was free, and probably getting paid an average wage. And he's not the reason we can't create anything or the sole reason we leak goals at the back.

He's much better when we have 3 at the back because defence is probably his biggest weakness and going forward he's average. Which is exactly what we bought. No good right back would have signed for us and we needed one because no one really knew if Kenny was ready. If koeman didn't buy martina and threw in Kenny and He didn't work out the fans would have koemans head on a platter.

Koeman can't win with some people.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 25, 2017, 12:13:58 PM
Kennys been ready fro a while, many knew this but they get shitted on

Many knew it how?

I guarantee at least half of those calling for him to play have never even seen the kid kick a ball.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: TheRam on September 25, 2017, 12:58:07 PM
Many knew it how?

I guarantee at least half of those calling for him to play have never even seen the kid kick a ball.

Maybe you hadn't.

But a lot of people had seen him for the under 23s and England under 20s

Plus his appearances, albeit fleeting for the actual first team.


Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: bluenuck on September 25, 2017, 01:03:47 PM
Maybe you hadn't.

But a lot of people had seen him for the under 23s and England under 20s

Plus his appearances, albeit fleeting for the actual first team.

It doesn't make him a first team pl player.

Again, if koeman doesn't bring in martina and kenny fails to live up to expectations then you would rip koeman for not bringing In decent cover for colemans absents.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 25, 2017, 01:34:12 PM
Maybe you hadn't.

But a lot of people had seen him for the under 23s and England under 20s

Plus his appearances, albeit fleeting for the actual first team.

Obviously some have seen him
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: brap2 on September 25, 2017, 01:57:08 PM
You have a real chip on your shoulder over this, don't you? No one has shitted on anyone for saying Kenny should get a shot. Some have aired on the side of caution, which is completley logical. Let's not forget that Galloway was "better than Baines" only a couple of years ago.

He's starting to really grate on me that fella, worse than Realist IMO.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 25, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
You have a real chip on your shoulder over this, don't you? No one has shitted on anyone for saying Kenny should get a shot. Some have aired on the side of caution, which is completley logical. Let's not forget that Galloway was "better than Baines" only a couple of years ago.


nah bud, no chips,  lots of people on here said kenny wasnt ready, or that Koeman has seen him week in and week out.. etc etc.

I've never rated Galloway anywhere near Baines.. hell none of our left backs have come near to Baines whilst he's been at the club...
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 25, 2017, 03:39:28 PM
Many knew it how?

I guarantee at least half of those calling for him to play have never even seen the kid kick a ball.

like the ones who watch the under 23games (last season) and the ones who watched the u20 world cup.

also your right, lots who hadnt seen him play would have been calling for him to play, as they had seen how atrocious Martina was.


He's starting to really grate on me that fella, worse than Realist IMO.

LOL, all cos i dont rate Giroud? and i think we could do better than an aging old immobile reserve?
i dont swear or ridicule anyone, but i can tell your annoyed, due to the language you use.. but keep doing you brap. go smoke some stardawg or gg4, relax. this is a forum.

We all want the same, Everton to do well. We have different opinions, no need to get angry on the internet.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on September 25, 2017, 05:33:25 PM
You have a real chip on your shoulder over this, don't you? No one has shitted on anyone for saying Kenny should get a shot. Some have aired on the side of caution, which is completley logical. Let's not forget that Galloway was "better than Baines" only a couple of years ago.

Galloway was never thought to be better than Baines. Completely wrong example to use.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 07:14:23 PM
Galloway was never thought to be better than Baines. Completely wrong example to use.

I'm not sure you were around these parts back when Galloway stepped in when Baines was injured, but trust me there were plenty of people saying he should keep his place even when Baines comes back. My point doesn't relate specifically to either player though, more the scenario. That scenario being that young players are unfortunately surrounded by unfairly high expectations based on performances at lower levels. It's easy to get carried away.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Lxxx on September 25, 2017, 08:11:09 PM
I'm not sure you were around these parts back when Galloway stepped in when Baines was injured, but trust me there were plenty of people saying he should keep his place even when Baines comes back. My point doesn't relate specifically to either player though, more the scenario. That scenario being that young players are unfortunately surrounded by unfairly high expectations based on performances at lower levels. It's easy to get carried away.

I agree, however youngsters do break through all the time. Some just need a chance, others need a little more time and a few just get a stroke of luck. Davies just needed a chance, DCL has had a stroke of luck by us having a poor transfer window and maybe Kenny might fall into that category with Coleman's injury.

I'm not saying Kenny should be in the side but I do think it's only a matter of time before he gets the nod in a few more games, it's then up to him to take the opportunity.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 08:16:49 PM
Oh I actually think he should be getting game time if I'm being completely honest. I can just see why some would be cautious, given what has been experienced with some youngsters. For every success theres a couple of failures.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: TheRam on September 25, 2017, 10:57:12 PM
Galloway was never thought to be better than Baines. Completely wrong example to use.

Mate abar two people said he should stay in the team when he was in good form so now it has to constantly get brought up anytime someone says a youngsters should play.

See the Garbutt example as well.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Realist on September 26, 2017, 03:40:23 AM
He's starting to really grate on me that fella, worse than Realist IMO.

U wot m8
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on September 26, 2017, 06:48:58 AM
Mate abar two people said he should stay in the team when he was in good form so now it has to constantly get brought up anytime someone says a youngsters should play.

See the Garbutt example as well.

We had threads about it!
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 03, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
Any news on Cuco?

As shit as he is its horrible seeing anyone going off on a stretcher.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 03, 2017, 07:16:06 PM
Any news on Cuco?

He flew home with the rest of the team so fine
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 03, 2017, 07:16:30 PM
He flew home with the rest of the team so fine

In the cargo hold strapped to an ironing board?
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 03, 2017, 07:19:33 PM
really cant believe non of our players went over to him to see if he was ok or not..

wish he recovers asap.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: everton1952 on November 03, 2017, 09:02:53 PM
Bless his cotton socks as the saying goes. I just hope he is not picked for Everton again. Bin him off in January on a free.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Toddacelli on November 04, 2017, 03:41:36 PM
We have different opinions, no need to get angry on the internet.

Wait.

Have I been internetting wrong? All this time?


(https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/04/14/635962406571246989252756426_Utter-Confusion.gif)
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Toddacelli on November 04, 2017, 03:56:58 PM
really cant believe non of our players went over to him to see if he was ok or not..

wish he recovers asap.

It seems to me like maybe because he was Koeman's guy and obviously not good enough.

It's like Koeman was Biff and Cuco was the little guy who hid behind him wearing those stupid fucking 3D glasses and laughing and joining in with Biff/Koeman's bullying.


But now Biff/Koeman is gone.


(https://78.media.tumblr.com/a5328b48e30e3c3a52c08b119e8a5a6b/tumblr_ousobu43gK1vwgty9o2_540.gif)
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Bluedylan on November 04, 2017, 04:19:04 PM
It seems to me like maybe because he was Koeman's guy and obviously not good enough.

It's like Koeman was Biff and Cuco was the little guy who hid behind him wearing those stupid fucking 3D glasses and laughing and joining in with Biff/Koeman's bullying.


But now Biff/Koeman is gone.


(https://78.media.tumblr.com/a5328b48e30e3c3a52c08b119e8a5a6b/tumblr_ousobu43gK1vwgty9o2_540.gif)

It's still pretty inexcusable.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Toddacelli on November 04, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
It's still pretty inexcusable.

Agree 100%

But it is such inexcusable behaviour that it makes you wonder what on earth can be behind it.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Jamokachi on November 04, 2017, 04:52:12 PM
Both Pickford and Williams went over, and the Dr could be seen explaining what was going on to Pickford. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.
Title: Re: Cuco Martina
Post by: Escla on November 04, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
Agree with both of you too, I just think it is a reflection of how miserably low team spirit/morale has plummeted.