NSNO | Everton Forum

NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: stirlingblue on September 24, 2017, 12:36:52 AM

Title: Baines
Post by: stirlingblue on September 24, 2017, 12:36:52 AM
His delivery wasn't great today but he certainly got forward a lot more than I've seen in a while, it made a big difference as we had a wide option on the left.

Why do you think he's been staying so deep? Confidence or instructions from Koeman?
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: TheTone on September 24, 2017, 12:41:30 AM
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0546/0449/files/giphy.gif?v=1477383284)
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 24, 2017, 12:41:44 AM
Not seen a decent delivery from Baines in about 5 years, as much as I love him.

Wouldn't say he's been playing particularly deep before today nor playing in a particularly advanced role this afternoon tbh.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 01:54:37 AM
At times V Man UTD, in the second half he seemed like a central midfielder.. lol not even running back into defense when we lost it..
I dont think he;s lost the pace or the stamina.. I blame Jags for not passing to him when we have played 3 at the back or played with Jags at the back..

I know Baines has dropped over the last few seasons, hopefully its just temporary..(now we got Vlasic, hopefully they will link like Bainaar did)
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 24, 2017, 02:36:05 AM
He's finished. People don't want to admit it because he was a truly worldclass full back. He offers bare minimum going forwards these days. Can anyone remember his last great game? I can't. Shame but he needs replacing if we are to progress
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 24, 2017, 02:37:24 AM
He's finished. People don't want to admit it because he was a truly worldclass full back. He offers bare minimum going forwards these days. Can anyone remember his last great game? I can't. Shame but he needs replacing if we are to progress

So Baines is your new target? 😉
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bluedylan on September 24, 2017, 02:42:50 AM
He's not finished. Still a really good footballer. Can't get up and down like he used to, so he errs on the side of caution.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 24, 2017, 02:52:25 AM
So Baines is your new target? 😉

He's not my target don't be so dramatic. He was a worldclass full back. By all means tell me the last time he had a very good game. He's 1 of our weak links

Oddly people can target Robles or niasse or Williams or a number of others week in week out. Say they hate them. Blame them for stuff that's not their fault. Give them zero credit when they do something right. Yet if someone suggests Baines isn't a particularly good full back anymore he's a victim of some sort of bullying. He's a bang average defender and not much of an attacking threat anymore. I'm happy for you to prove me wrong by listing his fantastic recent performances
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 24, 2017, 02:52:55 AM
He's not finished. Still a really good footballer. Can't get up and down like he used to, so he errs on the side of caution.

The modern full back has to get up and down.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 03:00:24 AM
The modern full back has to get up and down.


not always, if we had a winger infront of him, he wouldnt need to as much, especially with say Kenny  and a winger on the right.. not sure how'd we'd play all our number 10's tho with that sort of formation.. 2 man defence with Baines and Holgate.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: DIXIEDEAN on September 24, 2017, 03:05:21 AM
winger in front or not, in his day he would get up and down no problem, he can't do it anymore for whatever reason which means if we are to improve his area is one that needs addressing.
we all loved him and love him but he's better days are way behind him he should be back up
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 24, 2017, 03:09:25 AM
He's not my target don't be so dramatic. He was a worldclass full back. By all means tell me the last time he had a very good game. He's 1 of our weak links

Oddly people can target Robles or niasse or Williams or a number of others week in week out. Say they hate them. Blame them for stuff that's not their fault. Give them zero credit when they do something right. Yet if someone suggests Baines isn't a particularly good full back anymore he's a victim of some sort of bullying. He's a bang average defender and not much of an attacking threat anymore. I'm happy for you to prove me wrong by listing his fantastic recent performances

Probs because you've got a history of getting a hard on for a particular player at a time and going on and on and on about it. Y'know, the usual stuff.

And you're also a bit of a nutter.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Coyb12 on September 24, 2017, 03:18:14 AM
Baines should have been replaced last season never the best defender but he doesn't offer anything going forward.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Realist on September 24, 2017, 03:50:24 AM
Baines was world class.
Sadly he needs replacing, we need the fullbacks to attack too & he can't anymore
Title: Baines
Post by: blueski on September 24, 2017, 06:30:05 AM
He needs somebody playing in front of him that drops back in to cover; we seem so committed to the triangle of 10s in the middle which means he can only go as far forward as he can track back - even with this it seems like he's improved vs the prior 2 seasons

First he suffered under Martinez 's tactics now he is a bit under Koemans - I suspect if we played differently he'd still be very effective
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: bluenuck on September 24, 2017, 06:58:51 AM
He needs replacing. He needed to be phased out probably 1-2 seasons ago.

But the way we are playing now, and who we are playing on the left has made him look a lot worse off then he actually is.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 24, 2017, 07:41:45 AM
I thought this was a thread about Baines' Baobabs, a cluster of millennia-old baobab trees in the Nxai Pan National Park in Botswana. The site of the baobabs has been dated back to between 105 000 and 128 000 years. Regardless of the infrequent rains, Baines’ Baobabs stand tall (and wide); a landmark and attraction only gaining value and significance as they age. The Nxai Pan National Park has recognized the importance of the Baines Baobabs, and efforts are in place to ensure the protection of these trees in the future.

(https://www.africanfusiontravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Baines-Baobabs.jpg)
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: mikey_blue on September 24, 2017, 08:35:30 AM
I thought this was a thread about Baines' Baobabs, a cluster of millennia-old baobab trees in the Nxai Pan National Park in Botswana. The site of the baobabs has been dated back to between 105 000 and 128 000 years. Regardless of the infrequent rains, Baines' Baobabs stand tall (and wide); a landmark and attraction only gaining value and significance as they age. The Nxai Pan National Park has recognized the importance of the Baines Baobabs, and efforts are in place to ensure the protection of these trees in the future.

(https://www.africanfusiontravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Baines-Baobabs.jpg)

Same. Was just about to point out that it was in the wrong forum.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Jamokachi on September 24, 2017, 09:12:52 AM
I think the management know he's on the wane, which is understandable at his age and the amount of games he's played. It's why we were after Kolašinac. It's not an area we're desperate to replace though, so if the quality wasn't available in the market we stick for the time being.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on September 24, 2017, 04:14:04 PM
He must feel a little frustrated. The prime of his career wasted by having no-one playing on that side of the pitch with him for the past 4 years. At an age where he could have been able to use all his experience he's been wasted trying to hold up the left hand side of the pitch on his own. No wonder his great games have been so few and far between in recent years.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: MrWhite on September 24, 2017, 05:07:52 PM
I think Baines is either being asked, or deciding for himself, that he needs to loiter further back to be cover for Williams.

If that's the case, he's not wrong.

Martina's attacking intent (which some are using as evidence that Baines is past it for some bizarre reason) keeps leaving us exposed. Led directly to the goal yesterday, as no-one covered for him while he kept trying to press further forward chasing the ball. That's not to say the goal was his fault, but the lack of cover cost us. Baines is too smart to get caught out like that, and quite possibly doesn't trust other players to cover him. As he continued to show yesterday, he still gets in good crosses when he can get into a forward position. The midfield doesn't like playing him in on the left, despite a regular habit of cross field balls to Martina. And he continues to get across the pitch covering for the rest of the defence.

Past it? He is still easily one of our best players. He is still lacking a decent partner on the left. Sig is either not up to being that player, or is being told to do other things instead. Rooney is capable of being that player, but is trying to play in at least six positions at once..
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: gizzblue on September 24, 2017, 05:17:15 PM
Anyone saying he's finished is a joke....those same people are the ones saying we have no width ....this is because he's being asked to play two positions lb and lw. ...put a decent player out there with him for more than five mins and we would see his quality all over again .
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: bogie on September 24, 2017, 05:26:03 PM
So Baines is your new target? 😉

and that would be why members have not been saying anything about him turning into pill nev

left footed cb and left back needed asap both with pace

anyone know how matty folds is looking
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: mikey_blue on September 24, 2017, 06:15:12 PM
He's not bombing forward because he has nobody to cover for him. Coleman couldn't get forward when Geri was on the pitch.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Confucius on September 25, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
It's where Barry was great. He would read the game and move into the space vacated by the wing back so we're not left exposed. Gueye or Schneiderling should do the same
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Paddockoldie on September 25, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
I love Baines but all players slide over time. Perhaps he doesn't have the support to go for the byeline anymore? It's frustrating that when he's given a pass when he's heading past the half way line he doesn't go for it but passed either back a CB or to where he got it from.. really slows the attack at times. On Sat he was pulled out of position a few times which leaves us open on the left.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Waltzer on September 25, 2017, 03:08:14 PM
I dont know if its just Baines, I think a majority of the back needs replacing, Jags and Williams are prime examples, im still to be totally convinced about Keane and Mori always has an error in him. The only one you can genuinely rely on is Coleman, I just he comes back as the player he was before his injury.
I feel for Koeman to a certain extent as whilst the team was decent when he took over there are so many areas that need an overhaul all at once it cant be easy. In an ideal world you'd want to phase 1 out from each position per year, not the entire back line, or front line as has the prospect of doing
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 25, 2017, 03:10:16 PM
The only one you can genuinely rely on is Coleman

Really? I love Seamus but do recall him giving away quite a few penalties in recent years, among other things.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on September 25, 2017, 03:12:13 PM
I dont know if its just Baines, I think a majority of the back needs replacing, Jags and Williams are prime examples, im still to be totally convinced about Keane and Mori always has an error in him. The only one you can genuinely rely on is Coleman, I just he comes back as the player he was before his injury.
I feel for Koeman to a certain extent as whilst the team was decent when he took over there are so many areas that need an overhaul all at once it cant be easy. In an ideal world you'd want to phase 1 out from each position per year, not the entire back line, or front line as has the prospect of doing

Also Holgate doesn't either look ready or quite good enough at this level. Either way we're pretty exposed across the back line.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on September 25, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
Maybe we should play him in central midfield. Y'know.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 25, 2017, 03:37:55 PM
So we have no width, Baines actually keeps width well, however we want to shunt him into CM? Who is gonna play LB?

Ive seen Matty Foulds mentioned, he barely plays for the u23s
Garbutt? He is a 24 year old still playing u23 football
Galloway? Cant get a game for Sunderland?
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: sam of the south on September 25, 2017, 03:40:14 PM
It's where Barry was great. He would read the game and move into the space vacated by the wing back so we're not left exposed. Gueye or Schneiderling should do the same

McCarthy did that extremely well in Martinez' first season as well; it was a feature of how we did so well and looked so good going forward at that time.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2017, 06:56:55 PM
It's where Barry was great. He would read the game and move into the space vacated by the wing back so we're not left exposed. Gueye or Schneiderling should do the same
Fits. In Barry's first season, he played every game. Baines attacked all the time, created many chances. As Barry has played less, Baines has been forced to retreat. Last season, hardly any Barry, lots of Williams, Baines cannot get forward.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2017, 06:58:51 PM
McCarthy did that extremely well in Martinez' first season as well; it was a feature of how did so well and looked so good going forward at that time.
Deffo, the two of them freed Coleman and Baines who at times were passing to each other in attack and scoring, or creating goals for others.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 07:32:27 PM
So we have no width, Baines actually keeps width well, however we want to shunt him into CM? Who is gonna play LB?

I think @MmmBlueRamirez (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=123) 's central mid shout was a piss take directed at Martinez, who once made that comment. Said Baines could adapt his game like Lahm. I believe he even sent him over to Germany to take in Lahm's playing style in midfield?
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: hill135 on September 25, 2017, 07:39:08 PM
While I’ve expunged everything of the Martinez era from my mind, I’m still on board with the Baines at CM shout.

He’s not doing it for me as a left back anymore and I think a lot of the ‘no left winger’ stuff is a red herring. Man’s just not got the legs anymore.

He’s still the best passer at the club IMO so it would be good to find a way to get the best of that to prolong his time as a valuable player
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 25, 2017, 07:40:14 PM
While I’ve expunged everything of the Martinez era from my mind, I’m still on board with the Baines at CM shout.

He’s not doing it for me as a left back anymore and I think a lot of the ‘no left winger’ stuff is a red herring. Man’s just not got the legs anymore.

He’s still the best passer at the club IMO so it would be good to find a way to get the best of that to prolong his time as a valuable player
I'd rather see him as the left sided cb in a back 3 than centre mid to be honest
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: hill135 on September 25, 2017, 07:47:20 PM
I'd rather see him as the left sided cb in a back 3 than centre mid to be honest

Fair do. I'd be up for that too. It would be less risky than CM cos he'd still largely be playing on one side. He'd bring the ball out from the back and his lack of height wouldn't be as big as issue in a back three.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
We should play him as a sweeper. Let's go old school.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on September 25, 2017, 08:06:09 PM
Can of worms officially opened.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on September 25, 2017, 08:17:38 PM
Walsh will have his work cut out again this year with his scouting team. A striker, left back and left sided centre half should be the first three through the door next up.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 26, 2017, 01:08:39 AM
Walsh will have his work cut out again this year with his scouting team. A striker, left back and left sided centre half should be the first three through the door next up.

3 more number 10s it is then
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Realist on September 26, 2017, 01:21:19 AM
I like Cresswell we should've looked at him in the summer and used Baines as back up
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on September 26, 2017, 04:43:10 AM
I like Cresswell we should've looked at him in the summer and used Baines as back up

Out of him, Chilwell, Shaw and Tierney, I would probably say:

1.  Tierney
2. Cresswell
3. Shaw
4. Chilwell

That's proper narrow minded though there's probably shit loads of amazing ones in Ligue 1 or Serie A that could be just waiting to turn us down for Spurs.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: TheRam on September 26, 2017, 04:48:20 AM
Bertrand.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on September 26, 2017, 05:00:41 AM
Bertrand.


not a bad shout you know I like him.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 26, 2017, 05:03:52 AM
Depends how much we would pay for Bertrand.

He turns 29 at the end of this season (or start of next season) and he's had a couple of injuries over the last couple of years.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: blue1948 on September 26, 2017, 06:17:50 PM
I have no intention of continuing to knock him but Bainsey's crossing is getting poorer by the game .Done .
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 26, 2017, 09:07:38 PM
 :laugh:
I have no intention of continuing to knock him but Bainsey's crossing is getting poorer by the game .Done .
Luke Garbutts delivery last night was excellent,think he,s got to push on with u23,s this season.Wasted time out on loan,partly through injurys partly him not knuckling down.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: plumber on September 26, 2017, 10:33:57 PM
I have no intention of continuing to knock him but Bainsey's crossing is getting poorer by the game .Done .

He made a few good crosses against Bournemouth. One for DCL was perfect.

His and Cuco's passmaps of that game:

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/yRS0YhkpWTgjyAU9ZI6ZKU-Ak88=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9313067/baines_passing.PNG)
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AZSo72FYMLrIE7a5OwxBbaePC4U=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9312905/cuco_passing.PNG)

(Green successful, red unsuccessful, yellow key passes)

I honestly can't understand why are we playing down the right all the time when we have Baines and Gylfi on the left. It's mad to think that our main attacking threat is ex-Southampton third-choice full back.

Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Ravardo on September 26, 2017, 11:23:49 PM
He made a few good crosses against Bournemouth. One for DCL was perfect.

His and Cuco's passmaps of that game:

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/yRS0YhkpWTgjyAU9ZI6ZKU-Ak88=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9313067/baines_passing.PNG)
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AZSo72FYMLrIE7a5OwxBbaePC4U=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9312905/cuco_passing.PNG)

(Green successful, red unsuccessful, yellow key passes)

I honestly can't understand why are we playing down the right all the time when we have Baines and Gylfi on the left. It's mad to think that our main attacking threat is ex-Southampton third-choice full back.

If you looked at those stats for the man u game he never put one cross in just one cut back,,one of the games i cant remember which we had 3 players on the edge of their area,, baines knocks it forward as if he's gonna cross it and turns and pass's it back which he has done so many times of late its fucking annoying knowing he's actually able to cross the ball
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: DIXIEDEAN on September 26, 2017, 11:49:08 PM
the reason we use the right more than the left is that cuco actually gets into advanced positions  and makes himself available where baines doesn't, not that cuco does anything with it once there
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: blueToffee on September 26, 2017, 11:53:24 PM
Sadly, he’s not been the same since his ankle injury. Still has a decent cross on him though, but the free kicks have disappeared.

I think in general we do need more pace down that left side.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 26, 2017, 11:58:26 PM
Love a Baines pass on the ground into the box. He's the best in the business at it. Catches out the opposition and buys the receiving player half a second every single time.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: MrWhite on October 01, 2017, 07:42:34 AM
Opta stats for chance creation so far:
DCL 8
Sig, Rooney and Baines all on 7.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on October 02, 2017, 08:34:23 PM
Massively disagree with anyone who thinks Baines is finished. He is still class. The number of times he gets the ball and there is a total lack of blue shirts in front of him is ridiculous. It was doing my head in under Martinez and Koeman hasn't fixed it. On the few occasions he actually has anyone to pass to we look like creating something.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 09:08:50 PM
Sadly, he’s not been the same since his ankle injury. Still has a decent cross on him though, but the free kicks have disappeared.

I think in general we do need more pace down that left side.

You think?
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 10:00:39 PM
Massively disagree with anyone who thinks Baines is finished. He is still class. The number of times he gets the ball and there is a total lack of blue shirts in front of him is ridiculous. It was doing my head in under Martinez and Koeman hasn't fixed it. On the few occasions he actually has anyone to pass to we look like creating something.

I agree with this, he just needs some one the left,. who will actually stay infront of him, thats when we will see the best of Baines.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 02, 2017, 10:07:12 PM
There's no single reason why he's dipped. It's a combo of less support/ cover in the left. Playing 3 at the back leaves him stranded if he goes up. He's got in to the habit of stalling and passing back, even on a break he doesn't go for the line like he used to. He's safe because who's his competition? He needs pushing for his place because then we'll see if he's still up for it.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 11:16:54 PM
He's done. He's a below average left back now. If it wasn't Leighton Baines who used to be brilliant he'd be getting slated rather than people making excuses for him.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bally on October 03, 2017, 06:00:39 AM
He was fucked on Sunday and I swear he was carrying an injury to his right leg, the run he made near the end of the game ended with him prone, arms spread above his head and him taking very very deep breaths, he was jogging back into position all game and he's lost a good 5 yards of pace, which is to be expected really, he needs someone in front of him to do most of the donkey work, for him to overlap and whip a cross in, why do you think everything we are doing is going down the fucking right.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: themilkycoffees on October 03, 2017, 06:36:30 PM
I said it in the summer and I'll say it again. Great player in his day, absolutely finished now. 100% needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Hawkandro on October 03, 2017, 06:38:42 PM
Amazing that we failed to sign a back-up. Another dereliction of duty by Walsh/Koeman/Moshiri/Glenda the cleaner/who fucking knows.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 03, 2017, 06:44:51 PM
Amazing that we failed to sign a back-up. Another dereliction of duty by Walsh/Koeman/Moshiri/Glenda the cleaner/who fucking knows.

The notion that he'd be able to play every single match with Europa on the slate was madness.

He'd need some rest even without it.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 03, 2017, 08:35:09 PM
It's easy to say we should have signed another left back in the summer. We also needed a goalkeeper, two centre halves, a right back, a few midfielders, a few strikers, a few wingers.... I think Walsh needs some slack cutting really, it's unrealistic to expect him to sign a brand new first 11 as well as send half a dozen of the U-23's out on loan and replace them too.

Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 03, 2017, 08:43:08 PM
It's easy to say we should have signed another left back in the summer. We also needed a goalkeeper, two centre halves, a right back, a few midfielders, a few strikers, a few wingers.... I think Walsh needs some slack cutting really, it's unrealistic to expect him to sign a brand new first 11 as well as send half a dozen of the U-23's out on loan and replace them too.



I agree but I think it then comes back to Rooney, Klassen and Sigurdsson. You kind of lose a little sympathy when you see they did manage to sign 3 players for that 1 position.
Though rightly or wrongly I blame koeman much more than Walsh
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 03, 2017, 08:47:12 PM
I agree but I think it then comes back to Rooney, Klassen and Sigurdsson. You kind of lose a little sympathy when you see they did manage to sign 3 players for that 1 position.
Though rightly or wrongly I blame koeman much more than Walsh

It was Koeman's hard-on for Rooney without a real, structured plan for how to use him other than "he will just make everyone better by his awesome presence."
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 03, 2017, 08:51:17 PM
I agree but I think it then comes back to Rooney, Klassen and Sigurdsson. You kind of lose a little sympathy when you see they did manage to sign 3 players for that 1 position.
Though rightly or wrongly I blame koeman much more than Walsh

Completely agree. I reckon Klaassan and Rooney were at the insistence of Koeman and Sig was a mutual decision. I can see the merits of Rooney and Sig but the Klaassan signing took up time, money and effort that would have better spent on another centre half/forward, leaving a much more balanced squad.

I'm willing to cut Walsh a lot more slack than Koeman on the summer window although getting back to the thread topic, a body able to fill in at left back should have been a priority from the day after we sold Oviedo. 
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Waltzer on October 04, 2017, 12:24:40 AM
It's easy to say we should have signed another left back in the summer. We also needed a goalkeeper, two centre halves, a right back, a few midfielders, a few strikers, a few wingers.... I think Walsh needs some slack cutting really, it's unrealistic to expect him to sign a brand new first 11 as well as send half a dozen of the U-23's out on loan and replace them too.
It is unrealistic to sign 11 new players but you'd have thought he might be able to prioritise a bit better. Struggle how or why you'd want to cut him some slack when it's almost footballing suicide what he did in not getting a striker in. Let's not forget a majority of our business was done early so he had ample time you do something, anything, even a loan, but he completely screwed up.  In my mind he shouldn't even be in a job at a multi million pound organisation with that level of failure.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 04, 2017, 02:17:31 AM
It is unrealistic to sign 11 new players but you'd have thought he might be able to prioritise a bit better. Struggle how or why you'd want to cut him some slack when it's almost footballing suicide what he did in not getting a striker in. Let's not forget a majority of our business was done early so he had ample time you do something, anything, even a loan, but he completely screwed up.  In my mind he shouldn't even be in a job at a multi million pound organisation with that level of failure.

Walsh? are you assuming he had free reign to sign any striker he rated with the attributes koeman required? My assumption is that he had a very short list of approved strikers from koeman rather than a free reign. Surely if that's the case then koeman is more responsible than Walsh is
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Cereal Killer on October 04, 2017, 02:32:31 AM
I was looking forward to reading some more opinions on Baines but seems this has turned into another Walsh/Koeman - who's fault thread....  :headbang:
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: 74Blue on October 07, 2017, 07:29:49 PM
It's where Barry was great. He would read the game and move into the space vacated by the wing back so we're not left exposed. Gueye or Schneiderling should do the same
That is absolutely spot-on.
It's also the reason why the Bainaar partnership was so good. Baines could give it to Pienaar, safe in the knowledge he could bomb on and receive the ball back whilst Pienaar would instictively drop in to cover the space that he'd left.
With a player on a similar wavelength to him, Baines is still a very good player.
What I don't really understand is why he's been completely dropped from dead ball duties. In theory, we should be fucking lethal from free kicks. We've got Baines with a sweet left wand & Siggurdsson with a sweet right peg. Then there's also Rooney, who can take them too. We should be utilising all three of them to make sure that ANY dead ball situation around the opposition box is at least resulting in a shot on target. The onus on the attacking players then changes slightly, as they gain another option when they get the ball - win a cheap free-kick.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 09, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
I keep getting these strange feelings like I've been here before whenever I read a Baines thread. 
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Coyb12 on October 16, 2017, 05:02:38 AM
His defending for their goal was fucking embarrassing.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 05:15:21 AM
It's so weird how the left back and striker positions were not addressed in the summer.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: TheRam on October 16, 2017, 05:19:46 AM
Like a lot of our players, he seems reluctant to play the ball forwards.

Don't know if it's the players or the system.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Major Clanger on October 16, 2017, 05:30:53 AM
Like a lot of our players, he seems reluctant to play the ball forwards.

Don't know if it's the players or the system.

I was watching him today, and the number of times he got the ball and there was nobody closer than 30 yards was atrocious. The only one who would regularly come for the ball was DCL, but he was usually hugging the touchline and marked.

He was never one to bomb past players one v one from a standing start, and with age even less so. But what he could still do we stifle with our idiotic system.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 05:31:15 AM
Like a lot of our players, he seems reluctant to play the ball forwards.

Don't know if it's the players or the system.

Zero options. We have CM's who don't particularly want the ball.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: TheRam on October 16, 2017, 05:32:48 AM
How many times are we going to use that excuse though?

It's been going round for three years now.

He's still getting into some good positions and being very wasteful with the ball.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 16, 2017, 05:35:15 AM
Mate of mine sits in the Paddock, just before the halfway, Gwladdy end, says he’s watched Baines a few times getting offered a pass but will hold his hand out as if to say nah, don’t want it, or when he does get it he’s always laying it back inside. Whether it’s options going forward or he feels he just can’t do it any more...
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 05:37:30 AM
Yeah if there was a possibility of just replacing him with Tierney or Cresswell or Bertrand I probably would. Shame but fact is he has struggled for years.

We were ahead of the curve with our energetic full backs who could ball and whip crosses and score, but now every team has flying full backs and most of them are built like racehorses, while ours are past their sell-by or badly injured.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Major Clanger on October 16, 2017, 05:39:37 AM
How many times are we going to use that excuse though?

It's been going round for three years now.

He's still getting into some good positions and being very wasteful with the ball.

It's not an excuse, I'm saying it's a combination of the two. Yes, he is declining (as you'd expect him at this age, and with his injuries), but we aren't using him anywhere near his full potential either.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Ross on October 16, 2017, 05:43:36 AM
He’s got no movement in front of him therefore he’s got very little option but to play it safe either back to where it came or back further to another defender.

The whole teams static, nobody wants to move forward or thinks of advancing us to threaten the opposition.

Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 05:51:58 AM
Yeah if there was a possibility of just replacing him with Tierney or Cresswell or Bertrand I probably would. Shame but fact is he has struggled for years.

We were ahead of the curve with our energetic full backs who could ball and whip crosses and score, but now every team has flying full backs and most of them are built like racehorses, while ours are past their sell-by or badly injured.

I think that's the crux of it. The game has changed since Baines was in his pomp. We were ahead of the curve as you said, and now we're woefully behind it. You've basically got to be camped out in the opposition half as a full back now, but have the legs to fly back if and when needed. Bainesy just can't do that, whatever the rest of the team is doing.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 05:52:41 AM
He’s got no movement in front of him therefore he’s got very little option but to play it safe either back to where it came or back further to another defender.

The whole teams static, nobody wants to move forward or thinks of advancing us to threaten the opposition.



I'm a bit of a CM obsessive so I tend to think problems like these should be able to be resolved by your CM's.

Not really sure what either of our CM's are doing at the min. Then when Rooney plays he just walks all over their territory and does what ever he feels like of course.

A passing DM or a powerhouse 8 would go a long way I think.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Ross on October 16, 2017, 06:04:38 AM
I'm a bit of a CM obsessive so I tend to think problems like these should be able to be resolved by your CM's.

Not really sure what either of our CM's are doing at the min. Then when Rooney plays he just walks all over their territory and does what ever he feels like of course.

A passing DM or a powerhouse 8 would go a long way I think.

I said it towards the end of last season so its nothing new but Gueye isn’t good enough on the ball for us. Apparently hes a “defensive midfielder”. I got told that by the illuminati and that I didn’t “understand”. Yet time and again he’s found in and around the oppositions box wasting passes or blasting balls into row z.

We looked a much better team with Davies in the middle since the turn of the year and yet time and again he’s bafflingly on the bench while lesser players start.

Mustn’t be showing it in trading or something I’m lead to believe..
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 16, 2017, 06:10:56 AM
I said it towards the end of last season so its nothing new but Gueye isn’t good enough on the ball for us. Apparently hes a “defensive midfielder”. I got told that by the illuminati and that I didn’t “understand”. Yet time and again he’s found in and around the oppositions box wasting passes or blasting balls into row z.

We looked a much better team with Davies in the middle since the turn of the year and yet time and again he’s bafflingly on the bench while lesser players start.

Mustn’t be showing it in trading or something I’m lead to believe..

Not good enough for us? Christ he's 1 of our better players. If gueye isn't good enough we need 9 or 10
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 06:14:20 AM
I lost faith in him when Martinez went to shit. The transformation in the team in that second season was totally baffling to me at the time, and I expected it experienced players to carry us through. But Baines isn't that kind of player. Which is a shame because we need him to be now. There are occasions where he will race around and post quick passes. He does it at the end of a game when we are chasing a point!  So he is capable. I wonder whether it is an injury he can't shake off because his cardio seems fine.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Ross on October 16, 2017, 06:17:32 AM
Not good enough for us? Christ he's 1 of our better players. If gueye isn't good enough we need 9 or 10

We don’t need any more 10’s.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 06:21:54 AM
Baines hasn't been good enough for a few seasons, not as an attacking full back anyway.

I can't remember the last time he ran in to space and put a decent cross in.

Love the bloke, but he needs competition.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Tony Clifton on October 16, 2017, 06:33:34 AM
I think he might just be a bottler, still pining for Mo Moysie.  I can just imagine Baines, Jagielka, Mirallas...  doing some gormless cliquey shit.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: cantoffee on October 16, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
Doesn't have the legs he use to but still far from our biggest issue.

So far this season I would put a striker, two wingers, a CB, and a backup right back all ahead of replacing Baines.

That being said, we need at least another competent left back to give him a rest when needed. Ideally someone young who will come into the team and replace Baines gradually as the number 1 option over the next 18 months or so.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Confucius on October 16, 2017, 11:31:16 AM
It's funny how some are saying Gueye isn't good enough. It's also amazing how we go to defensive pieces as soon as he is subbed.

He is limited going forward but he is busting his gut to get there and try and make the numbers. Something Schneiderlin is supposed to be doing as he is apparently the more creative.

Baines did try to get forward
A little more today. But he doesn't trust our forward line to hold the ball up so he hangs back to prevent the counter.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 16, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
We don’t need any more 10’s.

We do. We need a good 1
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 02:04:26 PM
It's funny how some are saying Gueye isn't good enough. It's also amazing how we go to defensive pieces as soon as he is subbed.

He is limited going forward but he is busting his gut to get there and try and make the numbers. Something Schneiderlin is supposed to be doing as he is apparently the more creative.

Baines did try to get forward
A little more today. But he doesn't trust our forward line to hold the ball up so he hangs back to prevent the counter.

He's world class at very specific things, but he's currently playing as a sort of 8, which means he needs to be on the ball a lot.

So similar story - quality player being misused through managerial error or lack of other options.

My preferred midfield would be Gueye and Davies with Davies the 8, or Morgan sitting single pivot with Davies and Gueye box to box/Gueye and Klaassen box to box.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on October 16, 2017, 03:50:30 PM
Mate of mine sits in the Paddock, just before the halfway, Gwladdy end, says he’s watched Baines a few times getting offered a pass but will hold his hand out as if to say nah, don’t want it, or when he does get it he’s always laying it back inside. Whether it’s options going forward or he feels he just can’t do it any more...

I sit in the Upper Bullens and I'd say the opposite. Some of the most common topics of conversation where I sit over the last 2 years have been

(1) The amount of times Baines is in space on the left with his hands up calling for the ball and the ball is played over the other side
(2) When Baines gets the ball on the half way line there is never anyone available in front of him to pass to. Thats why he always plays it inside or back

He's lost a little bit of pace, can still play though.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 16, 2017, 03:52:45 PM
I sit in the Upper Bullens and I'd say the opposite. Some of the most common topics of conversation where I sit over the last 2 years have been

(1) The amount of times Baines is in space on the left and the ball is played over the other side
(2) When Baines gets the ball on the half way line there is never anyone available in front of him to pass to. Thats why he always plays it inside or back

He's lost a little bit of pace, can still play though.

🤔

That’s more or less what I said. There’s no option going forward or he “just can”t do it any more”, i.e; pace!?
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 04:07:35 PM
I just can't imagine Baines standing up in the dressing room and demanding to know why there is no-one on the left hand side of the pitch apart from him, in a thinly veiled point to both the manager and to his team-mates who all go wandering off into the centre every game.

Maybe he's too soft of personality but I can't help thinking that if he had a bit more about him this would have been sorted a long time ago as he's a senior player, vice captain, established international footballer, first name on the team sheet and when he talks and demands to be listened to people should listen. I may be wrong but he seems the type to just go along with it and get back home to his family and life outside of football. As is his wont of course but it doesn't help the team.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 16, 2017, 04:15:27 PM
I just can't imagine Baines standing up in the dressing room and demanding to know why there is no-one on the left hand side of the pitch apart from him, in a thinly veiled point to both the manager and to his team-mates who all go wandering off into the centre every game.

Maybe he's too soft of personality but I can't help thinking that if he had a bit more about him this would have been sorted a long time ago as he's a senior player, vice captain, established international footballer, first name on the team sheet and when he talks and demands to be listened to people should listen. I may be wrong but he seems the type to just go along with it and get back home to his family and life outside of football. As is his wont of course but it doesn't help the team.


I think he would. He’s been here long enough to have gained the balls to speak out, he’s been captain a few times, I don’t see him being overly quiet if things are shit.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Waltzer on October 16, 2017, 04:21:47 PM
I just can't imagine Baines standing up in the dressing room and demanding to know why there is no-one on the left hand side of the pitch apart from him, in a thinly veiled point to both the manager and to his team-mates who all go wandering off into the centre every game.

Maybe he's too soft of personality but I can't help thinking that if he had a bit more about him this would have been sorted a long time ago as he's a senior player, vice captain, established international footballer, first name on the team sheet and when he talks and demands to be listened to people should listen. I may be wrong but he seems the type to just go along with it and get back home to his family and life outside of football. As is his wont of course but it doesn't help the team.


I agree, but it baffles me why is is vice captain. In the Burnely game (as captain) I dont think I saw or heard him do anything. Hes very placid and I dont think he really comes across as an inspirational leader and his performances of late certainly haven't been anything near his usual standard
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 04:22:25 PM
In before the amateur body language interpretation shout...
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Major Clanger on October 16, 2017, 04:25:48 PM
I just can't imagine Baines standing up in the dressing room and demanding to know why there is no-one on the left hand side of the pitch apart from him, in a thinly veiled point to both the manager and to his team-mates who all go wandering off into the centre every game.

Maybe he's too soft of personality but I can't help thinking that if he had a bit more about him this would have been sorted a long time ago as he's a senior player, vice captain, established international footballer, first name on the team sheet and when he talks and demands to be listened to people should listen. I may be wrong but he seems the type to just go along with it and get back home to his family and life outside of football. As is his wont of course but it doesn't help the team.

Given that he was the only one to stand up in public against Martinez, I don't think that's necessarily true.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
I also think just from a tactical POV anyone who is even vaguely familiar with the career of Leighton Baines knows that he can ball, so why have we isolated him so badly during the tenure of two managers?
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 04:29:01 PM
Given that he was the only one to stand up in public against Martinez, I don't think that's necessarily true.

Maybe so. Just trying to get a handle on the fact that for three years we have completely ignored the left hand side of the pitch. It's bizarre and defies all logic or reason.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 16, 2017, 04:38:24 PM
Maybe so. Just trying to get a handle on the fact that for three years we have completely ignored the left hand side of the pitch. It's bizarre and defies all logic or reason.

Pure stubborness from the man in charge.

Just because a player may have the balls to stand up and point out faults doesn’t mean they’ll give in and change.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 04:41:34 PM
I just can't imagine Baines standing up in the dressing room and demanding to know why there is no-one on the left hand side of the pitch apart from him, in a thinly veiled point to both the manager and to his team-mates who all go wandering off into the centre every game.

Maybe he's too soft of personality but I can't help thinking that if he had a bit more about him this would have been sorted a long time ago as he's a senior player, vice captain, established international footballer, first name on the team sheet and when he talks and demands to be listened to people should listen. I may be wrong but he seems the type to just go along with it and get back home to his family and life outside of football. As is his wont of course but it doesn't help the team.

I completely agree. However I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I've come to the same conclusions purely based upon the handful of interviews he's done where he seems like a good egg, and that he's sort of got got a cuddly face.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on October 16, 2017, 04:48:46 PM
🤔

That’s more or less what I said. There’s no option going forward or he “just can”t do it any more”, i.e; pace!?

I genuinely totally misunderstood your post , I thought you meant he was waving his hands saying he didn't want the ball.

I also genuinely can't spell genuinely. Had to look it up. The more you say it the weirder it sounds too. genuinely still doesn't look right. genuinely
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 16, 2017, 04:53:46 PM
I genuinely totally misunderstood your post , I thought you meant he was waving his hands saying he didn't want the ball.

I also genuinely can't spell genuinely. Had to look it up. The more you say it the weirder it sounds too. genuinely still doesn't look right. genuinely

No, sometimes he does, when the pass was on he’d not want it.

It was the going forward issue I was referring to, there’s nothing out wide for him to work with, and he just doesn’t have the legs for lengthy runs any more.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: hill135 on October 16, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
I've been his biggest fan for a number of years, possibly to the point of delusion, but sorry lads he's not doing for me anymore.

The 'he's isolated shouts' are a red herring in my view. The modern full back has to rule his flank all by himself and Baines, due to injuries or otherwise, can't do that anymore as he doesn't have the physicality. The best left backs in the league might not have his brain but they can get up and down all day, isolated or not.

Yes we could probably get more out of him if we put a pivot player on the left wing a la Pienaar but why should we do that to maximise the impact of a fading force of a left back? Instead we should get a younger model who can run a lot and run fast.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 05:12:32 PM
I've been his biggest fan for a number of years, possibly to the point of delusion, but sorry lads he's not doing for me anymore.

The 'he's isolated shouts' are a red herring in my view. The modern full back has to rule his flank all by himself and Baines, due to injuries or otherwise, can't do that anymore as he doesn't have the physicality. The best left backs in the league might not have his brain but they can get up and down all day, isolated or not.

Yes we could probably get more out of him if we put a pivot player on the left wing a la Pienaar but why should we do that to maximise the impact of a fading force of a left back? Instead we should get a younger model who can run a lot and run fast.

He'd also bomb on a lot more if he was confident in having Barry to slide over and slot into the space he had just vacated. I'm not sure he trusts Schneiderlin and Gueye to have the intelligence to automatically do that and to be honest I don't blame him.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Coyb12 on October 16, 2017, 11:54:40 PM
He'd also bomb on a lot more if he was confident in having Barry to slide over and slot into the space he had just vacated. I'm not sure he trusts Schneiderlin and Gueye to have the intelligence to automatically do that and to be honest I don't blame him.
Mate you are looking for excuses for his poor performances,he defending for yesterday's goal is laughable he was not the only one too blame but he is not above blame he should have been replaced.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Lxxx on October 17, 2017, 12:34:53 AM
Mate you are looking for excuses for his poor performances,he defending for yesterday's goal is laughable he was not the only one too blame but he is not above blame he should have been replaced.

I agree. He doesn't look hungry anymore, a lot of them don't. Whether it's just a general malaise from the ones leftover from the Martinez era or just a poor atmosphere in the camp but even the new signings look devoid of any passion.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Coyb12 on October 17, 2017, 12:48:36 AM
I agree. He doesn't look hungry anymore, a lot of them don't. Whether it's just a general malaise from the ones leftover from the Martinez era or just a poor atmosphere in the camp but even the new signings look devoid of any passion.
I think there is quite a few of them to be honest,what has happened to gana I would swear he is a different person, schneiderlin looks poor,baines,you could go on I think lewin although not good enough imo does try his best same,as well as holgate,also Rooney looks as though he is arsed.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Confucius on October 17, 2017, 01:08:37 AM
I would like to ask when baines was so brilliant without a pivot in front of him. He was only ever world class when Pienaar was in front of him and to a lesser extent Ossie.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: TheRam on October 17, 2017, 05:57:07 AM
Get him DM for Morgan.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Tony Clifton on October 24, 2017, 07:26:09 AM
He's not much more than a remnant of the Cozy Moyes era now, in a bad way.  Him, Jagielka, Mirallas...

We've not done transition very well at all going back to Moyes' era when we should have been phasing out the likes of Hibbert, Osman etc.  Let's catch up, soon.  Please.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Ridge on October 24, 2017, 07:53:50 AM
I think the full backs license is directly relative to how well you're able to defend. When centre backs play forwards onside in behind you, you've gone an obligation to not get caught out first and foremost and our left side is the most secure part of our defence at the moment.  Even if he's not contributing as much going forward, he's always been a bit vulnerable. But he's experienced, reliable and probably has the cleanest underwear of our defenders.

Cuco and Holgate can go down wing and create more play and chances, but I'd still take a single Baines cross to 5 or 6 crosses from our right back options. We could yet see Baines given more encouragement to get forward under Unsworth.

I would also think he might bring through Garbutt. He was supposed to be challening Baines last season per Martinez, but Koeman didn't fancy him. He might give the team a better balance or Baines a reason to return to attacking form or more willingness to bust a gut, when he gets a chance.
Title: Re: Baines
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 24, 2017, 01:54:27 PM
I've been his biggest fan for a number of years, possibly to the point of delusion, but sorry lads he's not doing for me anymore.

The 'he's isolated shouts' are a red herring in my view. The modern full back has to rule his flank all by himself and Baines, due to injuries or otherwise, can't do that anymore as he doesn't have the physicality. The best left backs in the league might not have his brain but they can get up and down all day, isolated or not.

Yes we could probably get more out of him if we put a pivot player on the left wing a la Pienaar but why should we do that to maximise the impact of a fading force of a left back? Instead we should get a younger model who can run a lot and run fast.

 :'(