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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Lazarou on September 29, 2017, 02:42:45 PM

Title: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Lazarou on September 29, 2017, 02:42:45 PM
Various theories on various threads, but what do we really need to do to turn what is a good squad with quality players into a team that performs, although I think Koeman has had enough time I doubt he is going anywhere anytime soon. For me I would:-

Drop Rooney.
Start DCL in every match for at least 10 games.
Play either Schneiderlin or Ghana at home against inferior opposition.
Start at least one out and out winger. Vlasic impressed last night.
Sigurdsson in the centre.
Drop Williams when Jags or Keane are fit.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 29, 2017, 02:47:26 PM
The manager
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: sirblue57 on September 29, 2017, 02:47:55 PM
Drop Williams regardless.
Agree with the the rest, but play a formation with players in their proper position. It's not fucking rocket science, but seems beyond the mindset of Koeman.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: TheRam on September 29, 2017, 02:49:39 PM
Apart from Bournemouth Rooney has been involved in all our goals this season.

Given a choice over him, klassen and Siggurdson, it's Rooney every time over me.

Have him number 10 with runners outwide is my preference.

Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 02:54:06 PM
The balance of the side just isn't there
4 at the back
One in front of the them
2 Harrassing to get the ball bacl
2 Attacking midfielders
1 Centre forward

Genuinely past caring about who plays as in general they have all been shite and not one player (Pickford and Baines aside, for different reasons) have nailed down a position

Work on a pattern, a purposeful and meaningful style of play. Then stick with it to see if it works

Don't over rotate players either, they don't know if they are coming and going
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: dazfrancis on September 29, 2017, 03:19:44 PM
Apart from Bournemouth Rooney has been involved in all our goals this season.

Given a choice over him, klassen and Siggurdson, it's Rooney every time over me.

Have him number 10 with runners outwide is my preference.



Playing with three 10's is not working, it hasn't worked for about 10 games and is not going work in the future.

It's like the Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes situation with England. Shoehorning 3 very similar players into the team, resulting in a disjointed style of play.

IMO it's more important to have a system that works and that requires some width, movement and pace. We have players in our team who can offer that but Koeman doesn't play them.



Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Captain Sarcasm on September 29, 2017, 03:37:07 PM
One thing is clear to me and it is the over-rotation of players. For example, take the Man City game. The team played relatively well in that game and the stand out player for most of us was DCL. Since then RK has hardly played him or if he has it has been as a sub. Why would you do that? If a player is doing well then he surely deserves to stay in the side.

Another issue is the lack of pace or width. Pretty much all of us have been calling for Vlasic, Lookman or Mirallas to be given a go as it is crystal clear we are lacking width and pace. The only person who is seemingly against this is RK!

The definition of madness is continuing to do something when it isn't working. If RK doesn't dispense with this 'head in the sand' approach, the mild wave of anger towards him will substantially increase. The Burnley game is massive or else he could find himself dispensed with.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Optimistic Blue on September 29, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
Play players in their positions.

Its actually embaressing how simple this problem is to fix
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 03:46:23 PM
I'd 100% play Gylfi in his position over Rooney. I just think he's a much better player at this point and even in this absolute shitshow, you're starting to see the genuine quality that Gylfi could bring to a balanced team.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Robioto on September 29, 2017, 03:57:25 PM
Rooney may well have been involved in a lot of our goals but the way he runs around like a headless chicken kills our shape and hurts the teams as a whole. Either tell him to stop roaming and stick to his position more or drop him, the way he roams around does us no favours. He is not a Messi or Hazard type figure who are actually good enough to free roam, Rooney in hos older years is a limited player and needs to play within those limits to be truely effective.

I think a team without Rooney has better shape and overall would function better outweighing what Rooney offeres on an indivdiual basis.

We severly lack pace without Lookman, Vlasic and Calvert-Lewin, so need to play 2 of those 3 to be a proper direct attacking threat (probably Vlasic and Calvert-Lewin).

When Jags and Keane are fit, Williams needs to be dropped, he's been a walking disaster this season.

Start Kenny in as many games as is realistic instead of Martina, I don't actually think Kenny played that well last night but he's still better than bloody Martina.

Play Sigurdsson in the number 10 role where he belongs.

Stop playing Gueye and Schneiderlin at home to weak opposition, it invites pressure, we need to be on the front foot in these games.

You CAN'T have your width supplied only from an aging Baines who is clearly not as good as he once was (still a great player for us though) and Kenny/Martina, they are just not good enough to be a real threat.

Failing that, get someone else in to manage the team who does actually know what they are doing and is not blind to extremely obvious problems.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Macca77 on September 29, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Start again from scratch
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: hill135 on September 29, 2017, 04:08:54 PM
It's quite a complicated issue I reckon. It's a mixture of circumstances, the manager and the players so a lot needs to change.

The recruitment doesn't look great at this point and there are big gaps in the squad. And while people often dismiss it I do think we're struggling with the fixture pileup brought on by the EL. There's not enough time to prepare tactically for each game. Last night we played a diamond. A very specific system, new to the players, and it didn't start working until the second half. It's hard to drill it in to the players in a few days.

The manager needs to decide on a balanced system or two and hammer it in to the players. I feel we do need to rotate players due to the number of games we have but we don't need to change the shape from game-to-game as it's confusing. We need to pick a settled back four though and some players have to play because we're better when they're in the team. Keep Sandro and Klaassen for the EL as they're struggling to adapt.

The players also need to grow a fucking set. They're either really low on confidence, which I would put down to our recent run of form and the confusing tactics rather than man-management, or they're not playing for the manager. In each case I want to know why. If they've given up that's the second time in recent years so they really need to stop being so precious and do their jobs.

I wouldn't be arsed to see him go but I'm not sure who we could get. Tuchel's style of football with some of our players is a scary thought and I'm not sure how many in-work managers would consider an offer this early in to the season
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:20:07 PM
If it doesn't get any better quickly I would seriously look at installing Unsworth as caretaker manager if we can't tempt a bigger out of work name.

This isn't because I am banging the Unsworth drum but he gets Everton, he gets his teams playing a certain way and it looks like he believes in playing a balanced system with width and tempo.
I just see a disconnect in that side between the manager and players. They look lost, devoid of confidence and lacking in spark. I just don't think he's a good manager. He's a very experienced individual who commands short term respect from his achievements in the game but when that wears off he just looks lost.

If he doesn't start playing with some width very soon he'll be out of a job.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: mikey_blue on September 29, 2017, 04:33:37 PM
You've got to put some pace in the squad. Nothing else matters if we don't have at least 2 players who can run at defenders, then we're toothless. Pace is so crucial in the modern game.

I'd have DCL as our number 9 (obvious at this point) with Vlasic, Lookman, Lennon fuck it, even Kev.

I'm all for giving players minutes and time to improve, but players like Klassen are going to have to wait for their chance, because we're in a hole at the moment, and we're not going to get out of it playing players who aren't acclimatised to the league or are on zero confidence.

I'd go for:

             Pickford
Kenny Keane Jags Baines
        Morgan Davies
Lennon   Rooney    Vlasic
               DCL


Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: themilkycoffees on September 29, 2017, 04:36:54 PM
Martinez was sacked for his stubbornness and Koeman looks to be on the same path. The very best managers are constantly adapting. The solution seems so simple to all of us watching in the stands. He needs to introduce some pace and balance into the side immediately or he will be gone. It's as simple as that.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 05:24:39 PM
The manager

:o Didnt expect this from you Audrey, I got no issues with giving Koeman time, he just needs to change how he set ups, he cant keep expecting to get his team to play the way he wants, as that leaves us exposed, our midfielders/attackers struggle as the have to come from in to out to track back wingers, whichbasically has the oppositions wingers free as our players marking them are set up wrong/out of position to start with. Feel Koemans negativity is rubbing off all over the pitch. but he still wants to blame the players, rather than adjust his tactics.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: dazfrancis on September 29, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
Koeman said before yesterday's game that the team that would play would be the best team we could put out. On paper you could agree with him but anyone who has watched us this season could tell the lack of width and pace was going to hurt us.

If you we actually going to play the best team available based on form it would look more like

                    Pickford

 Kenny  Holgate  Williams  Baines
        Davies     Schneiderlin
 Lookman                      Vlasic
               Rooney
                 DCL

That fact that the manager can't see this is shocking, we can see it and I think the players can see it too. You can tell when a team does or doesn't believe in a system and in this system the players don't look totally comfortable.

Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: pjk on September 29, 2017, 05:37:05 PM
After last nights game v Limassol. I'm running out of ideas that can point to any improvements in the team and the squad. I know that personally,  I'm baffled by what Koeman is trying to achieve. At the moment it's a complete and utter mess. There are hard-nosed highly skillful extremely well-paid professionals running around the pitch getting rid of the ball to each other as fast as is possible, in case they make a mistake. If it carries on like this Koeman won't make it to Christmas. This isn't me joining the Koeman out brigade, It can only be tolerated for so long before it's an inevitable consequence of what appears to be complete ineptitude. He didn't do this while he was at Southampton. Why is it happening, now he's at Everton? The fucking mind boggles. :headbang:
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 05:38:41 PM
If he's (Koeman) is here till Xmas, we will be out of every competition. (besides the fa cup)
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: Lazarou on September 29, 2017, 05:41:04 PM
At Southampton he had less options so he just played the same team every week (barring injury & suspensions). And he had a target man in Pelle. It's almost like he can't cope with actually having to make tough decisions, instead we end up with players out of position and players in the same position on the pitch at the same time.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: dazfrancis on September 29, 2017, 05:43:33 PM


At Everton Moyes had less options so he just played the same team every week (barring injury & suspensions). It's almost like he can't cope with actually having to make tough decisions, instead we end up with players out of position and players in the same position on the pitch at the same time.

I just had a flashback to 4 years ago

Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 29, 2017, 05:58:56 PM
At Southampton he had less options so he just played the same team every week (barring injury & suspensions). And he had a target man in Pelle. It's almost like he can't cope with actually having to make tough decisions, instead we end up with players out of position and players in the same position on the pitch at the same time.
He ha Pelle and Mane. Put them in our team and wed look infinitely more balanced and cohesive.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: blargins on September 29, 2017, 06:08:21 PM
For me, Rooney is a big part of the problem of the inbalance. It seems he's the first player on the team sheet, and while he has been involved in many goals this season, he's also been a big reason why we are so out of balance. He isn't the future, so I would play Sig in that role ahead of him and I think Vlasic has earned a place on the left. He gives us strength and pace. DCL, while not a goal scorer has to be our main man. I don't think Gana and Schneiderlin are working as a pair in the middle, and once again we are still weak in this area.

The real weak link of the team has the initials AW though.
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 29, 2017, 06:08:26 PM
How can Mirallas be included in the Belgium squad when hes left sitting on his arse for us?
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: dazfrancis on September 29, 2017, 06:10:25 PM
How can Mirallas be included in the Belgium squad when hes left sitting on his arse for us?

You're still slagging off Martinez, let it go   ;D
Title: Re: So What Needs To Change?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 06:15:58 PM
How can Mirallas be included in the Belgium squad when hes left sitting on his arse for us?

Koeman knows best, He has a lovely way of dealing with players who are unhappy with his style/system.

The match last night was calling for Mirallas or Lookman.. but Koeman doesnt like to play players who show they care for Everton. (Mirallas showed he care by being vexed he came off, then being vexed he wasnt brought on in a match that was screaming for him, then he  wanted to leave cos he wasnt getting game time, Mirallas has always shown us lots of love, unlike Koeman)