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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:16:36 AM

Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:16:36 AM
I don’t see why he should get off the hook, considering the mess we are in so thought I’d start this.

Apart from bullying a couple of poorer teams out of their well established, better players, what has he achieved since being here?

After the dross Martinez signed and saddled Koeman with, we adopted the DoF approach - to provide more continuity and structure to our recruitment policy. If at any point we decide to change manager (which is looking increasingly likely), the new one should be able to slot in nicely, with a top squad at his disposal. Is this the case?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 12:18:28 AM
BOTH THE CUNTS
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:18:35 AM
sack em all
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on October 02, 2017, 12:19:00 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
Don't really see what he brings except confusion
We are the only club stupid enough to employ him because of the "role" he played in Leicester winning the prem.
His role was minimal at best & we make him our director of football, it's pathetic
Yes I'd sack him immediately
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:21:01 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.

Why wouldn't you sack him? Are you suggesting he might not play a role in any of the signings?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:25:50 AM
never been a fan of directors of football

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:27:28 AM
Why wouldn't you sack him? Are you suggesting he might not play a role in any of the signings?

the signings are not the issue, its Koemans use of them, Plus Koeman has stated a few times that other players where lined up, but he wasnt happy with them.. so good enough for Walsh(who has a good track record on finding players) but not good enough for Koeman.. who has a shit eye for players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 12:28:24 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.

Just on the other side of the coin, the manager would have an easier job if the required players had been brought in for him.

Note: Koeman should be doing better regardless of course.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
the signings are not the issue, its Koemans use of them, Plus Koeman has stated a few times that other players where lined up, but he wasnt happy with them.. so good enough for Walsh(who has a good track record on finding players) but not good enough for Koeman.. who has a shit eye for players.

Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 12:34:15 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

Could you really? Or are you just being silly now?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:34:42 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

Why do you keep bringing that up regarding Kante and Mahrez, even when it isn’t even mentioned in the post you quoted?!

Walsh had a great hand in the squad assembled at Leicester regardless of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:35:37 AM
Why do you keep bringing that up regarding Kante and Mahrez, even when it isn’t even mentioned in the post you quoted?!

Walsh had a great hand in the squad assembled at Leicester regardless of it.

Who would you think he means when he says Walsh had a good record of finding players?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:36:22 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

when i went to the match on Thursday, my mate said that i play better than Evertons players.. lol

i dont care on the value of the players. its all arbitrary.. its the players koeman wanted,
I disagree with the Walsh comments, but over all, Koeman said no to a few signings.. regardless Koeman is the one who works with the players, regardless who buys them.
Even if you bought better players, Koeman needs to fit them into a system that is productive.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:36:33 AM
Could you really? Or are you just being silly now?

I genuinely believe I could sign 3 better players with £100m let's face it Brownie it wouldn't be hard would it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:38:25 AM
Who would you think he means when he says Walsh had a good record of finding players?

You’re the one who thinks Walsh is shit and isn’t worth his salt. You do the digging amd find who he did and didn’t sign. Put it on yer YouTube channel.

I can’t be fucked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:39:18 AM
You’re the one who thinks Walsh is shit and isn’t worth his salt. You do the digging amd find who he did and didn’t sign. Put it on yer YouTube channel.

I can’t be fucked.

I already did do the digging, that's why I stated what I did
Why begin engaging then if you "can't be fucked"?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Why begin engaging then if you "can't be fucked"?

Very careless of me to “engage” in the first place really.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:41:30 AM
Very careless of me to “engage” in the first place really.

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:42:58 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.
Surely a DoF means someone IS now accountable?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:43:09 AM
Eh?

I meant....... I really shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place as I can’t be arsed carrying on arguing the toss with a Hugh Fernly Whittingstall lookalike.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:45:12 AM
I meant....... I really shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place as I can’t be arsed carrying on arguing the toss with a Hugh Fernly Whittingstall lookalike.

 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:46:19 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.
To motivate the likes of Niasse, Vasic and DCL? Not exactly world-beaters.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:46:34 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

I asked a couple of weeks ago who bought in what players...keoman =  martina rooney schneiderlin siggs bolasie williams maybe klassen

walsh = gueye  sandro  pickford keane 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:47:32 AM
Just on the other side of the coin, the manager would have an easier job if the required players had been brought in for him.

Note: Koeman should be doing better regardless of course.
This
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:47:53 AM
I asked a couple of weeks ago who bought in what players...keoman =  martina rooney schneiderlin siggs bolasie williams maybe klassen

walsh = gueye  sandro  pickford keane

Who told you that?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D3blue on October 02, 2017, 12:48:24 AM
I have to say I'm against the idea of a DoF, probably because I never understood exactly what their function is.  It seems to be just a means to pass the buck between manager and DoF...
Let's face it, none of us knows whether RK of SW identified our recent signings....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 12:50:11 AM
I genuinely believe I could sign 3 better players with £100m let's face it Brownie it wouldn't be hard would it?

Then you are a self delusional egotist.

But let's look at it logically

Are you complaining about the quality of the player, the fee or both?

Firstly the players - two are both established Prem players and international players, the third has just broken into the England side and is highly rated. Schneiderlin was excellent when he came in. Don't know what's up with him at the minute but he's not a bad player. Sigurdsson needs to play the number 10 role, not be out on the wing. Keane has the attributes to be a top draw centre half, he needs someone quick beside him.

The fees, as has been said before, are ridiculous but that is the climate we are in.

So, that leaves looking st players from abroad - how good is your scouting network? Do you know some players who you would take a punt on?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 12:50:15 AM
never been a fan of directors of football


Dennis wise was the first 1 i remember, Dennis Wise i mean Dennis fuckin Wise, it's a non job, it's like a civil service job, they give them to people with no fuckin use in the real fuckin world what so ever.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:52:33 AM
Who told you that?

Just guessing like
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Azz on October 02, 2017, 12:53:38 AM
It's a no brainer surely.   The guy is a fraud.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:55:08 AM
Just guessing like

😂
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:00:22 AM
Then you are a self delusional egotist.

But let's look at it logically

Are you complaining about the quality of the player, the fee or both?

Firstly the players - two are both established Prem players and international players, the third has just broken into the England side and is highly rated. Schneiderlin was excellent when he came in. Don't know what's up with him at the minute but he's not a bad player. Sigurdsson needs to play the number 10 role, not be out on the wing. Keane has the attributes to be a top draw centre half, he needs someone quick beside him.

The fees, as has been said before, are ridiculous but that is the climate we are in.

So, that leaves looking st players from abroad - how good is your scouting network? Do you know some players who you would take a punt on?

I'm complaining about the quality & the fees
Keane hasn't just "broken" into the England side at all, is he gonna be a regular from now on? No. You say he's highly rated - by who?

Infact I'd say I'm almost certain I could've done better with the money, we can throw Bolasie in too if you want? That gives me £128m for four players
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 01:02:31 AM
sack em all

(http://img37.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTPS93d3cuZ2Vlay5jb20vd3AtY29udGVudC91cGxvYWRzLzIwMTYvMDYvYnVybi10aGVtLWFsbC5naWYlog.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 01:16:30 AM
I'm complaining about the quality & the fees
Keane hasn't just "broken" into the England side at all, is he gonna be a regular from now on? No. You say he's highly rated - by who?

Infact I'd say I'm almost certain I could've done better with the money, we can throw Bolasie in too if you want? That gives me £128m for four players

So he didn't play for England against Germany then? I must have imagined it. Quite a few pundits last year were talking about him highly on football shows and in newspaper or magazine collumns. Many saying he'd be at a big club in the not so distant future.

I thought you were just being flippant at first but if you genuinely think that you, Mr joe public, with no experience of anything regarding football transfer at the elite level, then that is hilarious.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 01:29:18 AM
We don't really know what Walsh's full remit is at the club. I understand that he and Koeman meet often to discuss transfer targets and the kind of players that the manager wants to work with for the Everton squad. With regards to the actual negotiations and trying to get the players to come in, it sounds like Kenwright is still very much involved especially as it was him that was involved in bringing Sigurdsson to Everton - a player that Koeman has wanted since he was Southampton manager.

Players like Keane, Pickford, Klaassen, Sandro, Sigurdsson, Rooney, Schneiderlin and Gana are meant to be very good, if the manager does not know what to do with these very good players (that he wanted) and get them to play well with their natural ability then something is seriously wrong on the coaching side.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:31:49 AM
So he didn't play for England against Germany then? I must have imagined it. Quite a few pundits last year were talking about him highly on football shows and in newspaper or magazine collumns. Many saying he'd be at a big club in the not so distant future.

I thought you were just being flippant at first but if you genuinely think that you, Mr joe public, with no experience of anything regarding football transfer at the elite level, then that is hilarious.

A friendly - in March? Has he played since? No, so he's hardly broken into the team has he?
Articles, columns blah blah blah - he'll never play for a big team - he's nowhere near good enough

And yes I was deadly serious - £128m to find 4 better players than Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Bolasie?
No danger and I'd probably have change too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 01:37:46 AM
I've got massive questions marks over the whole structure of the club at the moment

From boardroom to the Koeman/Walsh axis.

I'm kinda thinking it's been a massive mess since Moshiri come in tbh.

Not calling for his head or anything like that, but it's been a bit chaotic, hasn't it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 01:49:57 AM
when i went to the match on Thursday, my mate said that i play better than Evertons players.. lol

i dont care on the value of the players. its all arbitrary.. its the players koeman wanted,
I disagree with the Walsh comments, but over all, Koeman said no to a few signings.. regardless Koeman is the one who works with the players, regardless who buys them.
Even if you bought better players, Koeman needs to fit them into a system that is productive.

Don't we need a system first?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 01:53:52 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 01:57:35 AM
A friendly - in March? Has he played since? No, so he's hardly broken into the team has he?
Articles, columns blah blah blah - he'll never play for a big team - he's nowhere near good enough

And yes I was deadly serious - £128m to find 4 better players than Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Bolasie?
No danger and I'd probably have change too

You know when you go blah blah blah? That's really petulant and you lose all credibility in any discussions that you enter into. You asked me who rated him, I told you where to look. If you want to debate properly do it. If not don't ask questions you either don't like the answers to or don't fit your agenda.

Again, if you think it's so easy To go and buy these superstars, chuck your CV into the club. I'm sure they'll be glad to get it. It's not an easy job though. I was doing a bit of transfer dealing in the summer to get a centre down from one of the Valley clubs to play for us. That was fucking hard work and we were only dealing with a budget of £10k.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:04:16 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 02, 2017, 02:07:19 AM
Does anyone know if Leicester replaced Walsh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:07:40 AM
You know when you go blah blah blah? That's really petulant and you lose all credibility in any discussions that you enter into. You asked me who rated him, I told you where to look. If you want to debate properly do it. If not don't ask questions you either don't like the answers to or don't fit your agenda.

Again, if you think it's so easy To go and buy these superstars, chuck your CV into the club. I'm sure they'll be glad to get it. It's not an easy job though. I was doing a bit of transfer dealing in the summer to get a centre down from one of the Valley clubs to play for us. That was fucking hard work and we were only dealing with a budget of £10k.

I just meant it's just journalists, sports writers etc they're irrelevant really. I don't think I really lose credibility
But yeah I could've bought better players for less money
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.
Meant to quote Ram on Moshiri. but it all went Burnley
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 02:12:10 AM
I just meant it's just journalists, sports writers etc they're irrelevant really. I don't think I really lose credibility
But yeah I could've bought better players for less money


Must be great on your planet
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:23:51 AM
Must be great on your planet

My world is wonderful thanks, have a nice evening Brownie 👍
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 02:59:31 AM
I still think the players we bought are good players so for me the issue is largely not to do with recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
I disagree 100% with the people saying we don't need a position like this. Nobody good gives the manager complete control over footballing decisions anymore. Even clubs with unlimited spending power have realized how dumb it is to put recruitment and the hiring of backroom staff entirely in the hands of the manager. The do-it-all manager model is totally outdated and unless we want to fall even further behind the best clubs in England, there's no reason we should go back to it.

With that said, I'd be comfortable with the club giving Walsh the axe and starting over, this time with the director of football being hired before the manager. Maybe Koeman has made his job difficult but I don't see anything in him that's going to give us an edge over the clubs we want to compete with and the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing. We need more than an old-school English scout who's smashed a handful of transfers if we want to be competitive in England and in Europe.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:14:40 AM
I disagree 100% with the people saying we don't need a position like this. Nobody good gives the manager complete control over footballing decisions anymore. Even clubs with unlimited spending power have realized how dumb it is to put recruitment and the hiring of backroom staff entirely in the hands of the manager. The do-it-all manager model is totally outdated and unless we want to fall even further behind the best clubs in England, there's no reason we should go back to it.

With that said, I'd be comfortable with the club giving Walsh the axe and starting over, this time with the director of football being hired before the manager. Maybe Koeman has made his job difficult but I don't see anything in him that's going to give us an edge over the clubs we want to compete with and the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing. We need more than an old-school English scout who's smashed a handful of transfers if we want to be competitive in England and in Europe.

Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:20:00 AM
I've got massive questions marks over the whole structure of the club at the moment

From boardroom to the Koeman/Walsh axis.

I'm kinda thinking it's been a massive mess since Moshiri come in tbh.

Not calling for his head or anything like that, but it's been a bit chaotic, hasn't it?


Not sure I agree.

I think there have been loads of positives - more than I even expected/hoped for in such a short space of time (transfer money/activity, Bramley Moore Dock, sponsorships), but they have all really been off the pitch.

I think it's on the pitch I agree with you. That's where it's been shit.

But I don't think he's the kind of person to tolerate poor results in any area of his business for long - especially the most high-profile area that most directly affects the business.

Plus he was at Arsenal for years being cock-blocked by Kronke - the thought of actually being able to fire a manager with a better one if he wants to means it's probably top of his Bucket List now.   :)

(http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/94484667-53b8-4117-b336-340a5f3cbc11/05ceb0dc-aac5-45e0-8819-ab6f29ee3465.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:21:27 AM
Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.

The state of the team vs money spent is my guess
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:26:45 AM
If we are saying the players brought in are largely his responsibility are we saying these signings are poor because I am not having that really. Aside from Williams (who no one could have guessed would be this shit) and Martina who is an obvious stop gap I don't think any of the signings are poor they are performing poorly. The only criticism at Walsh's door for me right now is where the hell a striker is.

I don't think his role is all encompassing as we imagine though. Martina, Schneiderlin, Sigurddsson are all out and out Koeman signings for a start. Is our scouting network failing as well? Who is responsible for the youth signings as Onyekuru is looking like a find for a start.

I don't think it's a tangible role for us as fans to figure out whereas you can actually see the impact or not of Koeman on the pitch
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:32:26 AM
The state of the team vs money spent is my guess

Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on October 02, 2017, 03:40:52 AM
We signed loads of good players but with no plan of how to make a team with them
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:44:43 AM
The state of the team vs money spent is my guess

Surely that depends on which are his signings and which are koemans though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:46:52 AM
We signed loads of good players but with no plan of how to make a team with them

So then another question is - 'Was the team plan Walsh's, Koeman's or both of theirs?"

Sacking Walsh might be good, might be right - I'm just saying "How the fuck do we know when we don't even know what his job is or how well he's doing it?"
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 03:49:15 AM
Not on board with sacking Walsh. I like some of his signings.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:51:48 AM
Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?

Lukaku has to feature in any talk about the state of the squad - whether it was forced or not, he's probably a top 10 striker in the world, now we don't have a proper striker at all in the squad, we haven't even attempted to replace him!
"Potential great futures" doesn't really cut it for me when they've spent £220m+ on players since they arrived here.
"A couple of established star performers?" - the only one I see is Sigurdsson. You may argue Rooney but he's clearly not the player he once was.
Walsh is responsible for this shit too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: arteta4spain on October 02, 2017, 03:53:22 AM
Haven't a few on here said that Koeman and Walsh don't see eye to eye? If this is true maybe there's friction and Koemans finding it hard to integrate all the players. But it sounds like he's alienating some players and forcing himself into fitting square pegs in round holes. I'd say it's more down to Koeman than Walsh but I don't think he's helping the situation either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:55:43 AM
We don't know if he is though that's the point. I wouldn't say we didn't attempt to replace Lukaku but we did fail too. Remember as well it is Koeman who has insisted on increased productivity and goals all over the pitch, something most of us were into when he sold it. He's failed to deliver on that one thus far.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:59:46 AM
We don't know if he is though that's the point. I wouldn't say we didn't attempt to replace Lukaku but we did fail too. Remember as well it is Koeman who has insisted on increased productivity and goals all over the pitch, something most of us were into when he sold it. He's failed to deliver on that one thus far.

I can't imagine Walsh had free reign to sign a striker. I think more likely koeman had a very short list for him to work from and Walsh can't force anyone to sign for us

The impression I get rightly or wrongly is that all the cheaper punts are walsh's and all the big money buys are what koeman has asked for. If that's the case no Walsh shouldn't be sacked and koeman clearly has too much power and not enough talent
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 04:04:52 AM
Not on board with sacking Walsh. I like some of his signings.

You don't know who he's bought
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 04:06:09 AM
never been a fan of directors of football



I can see the irony. We have a director of football for the first time but our football is directionless.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 04:12:56 AM
I'm glad we went for the Director of Football approach especially as in the past we've had managers with a very large remit, the problem with the old 'manager does everything' system is you are assuming that the manager will be there for the long term and with the example of Martinez, he seemed to have quite a large say in how Finch Farm was upgraded with extra bedrooms or whatever it was he felt suited his philosophy. He's gone and the current manager has a completely different way of looking at football which risks overhauling the system influenced by the previous manager.

For me the Director of Football should provide continuity on the footballing side of the club and help Everton establish some sort of consistent footballing principle or philosophy that reflects the development of the club. So when a new manager comes in after the old one is sacked or moves to another club, they have to be able to fit with the Everton ethos and make the most of the existing players at the club whilst also working with the DoF to come up with suitable transfer targets.

I'm not sure the board have this DoF structure fully sussed out as it seems that Walsh is focused mostly on the scouting side and I don't know what other responsibilities he's supposed to have especially regarding the actual footballing side of things. I think Kenwright said something along the lines that he still thought the manager was the most important individual on the footballing side although I don't know if Koeman is directly answerable to the DoF.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 04:16:16 AM
I'm glad we went for the Director of Football approach especially as in the past we've had managers with a very large remit, the problem with the old 'manager does everything' system is you are assuming that the manager will be there for the long term and with the example of Martinez, he seemed to have quite a large say in how Finch Farm was upgraded with extra bedrooms or whatever it was he felt suited his philosophy.

I read the bedroom idea was fucked off as soon as the pillock left
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 04:19:12 AM
You don't know who he's bought

If you think Koeman knew who Onyekuru, Sandro, Vlasic and Gana were I think you'd be mistaken. It's obvious that Martina, Stek and Schneiderlin were Koeman signings. It's likely that Klaassen was also. Koeman also seemed to have a massive hard-on for Rooney and Sigurdsson. Who knows with the others? Yes, it's guesswork but educated guesswork.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing.

What are these rumours?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 04:33:14 AM
What are these rumours?

It comes from here, I think:

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4 (http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4)

Quote
I said to snoop when he got the job I don't think he was all he's built up to be and I don't think anyone who was involved in football would have given him the job. Moshiri saw Arsenal struggle with Wenger once they lost David Dein and they'd flirted with Walsh but I don't think anyone with a knowledge of transfers and the ins and outs of footy would have appointed steve Walsh .

I'm not saying he hasn't spotted and can't spot a player but he brings baggage , I think Everton ended up because of the baggage second guessing Walsh . We've got , as always really , too many people looking at too much in the way of transfers . i don't believe Koeman and I don't believe Kenwright trust Walsh and I'll be honest I don't blame them.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 05:14:43 AM
Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.
I think it’s relatively certain that when a club creates a DoF role for a chief scout, he’s going to be in charge of recruitment. Otherwise he’d just be hired as scout/chief scout.

And I’d say not bringing in a Lukaku replacement over the course of 3 transfer windows and not signing a left back - is doing a bad job. He’s essentially hamstrung the manager - and any future manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 05:22:04 AM
It comes from here, I think:

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4 (http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4)
By ‘baggage’ was he one of those paedo young coaches?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:38:00 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:38:56 AM
By ‘baggage’ was he one of those paedo young coaches?

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 05:39:06 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.

What have I missed? What's happened tonight?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:40:20 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.

The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's responsible as is Koeman
They're also both responsible for not replacing Lukaku & not signing a back up / replacement for Baines
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 05:43:31 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's as responsible as Koeman is

They are not 'shit' players. They are underperforming players. There is a big difference
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 05:44:52 AM
Lack of accountability in regards to the window I have to say.

The failure to 'replace' Lukaku is borderline insane.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on October 02, 2017, 05:49:56 AM
Lack of accountability in regards to the window I have to say.

The failure to 'replace' Lukaku is borderline insane.

That has to go down as a failure for everyone concerned.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 05:50:22 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's as responsible as Koeman is

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:51:11 AM
They are not 'shit' players. They are underperforming players. There is a big difference

That's your opinion
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:52:47 AM
Moshiri given his full support
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:02:40 AM

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.

Hardly anyone he's signed is shit is debatable. Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie & Klaassen have a really long way to go to justify their hefty price tags (£110 ish million!), Walsh was here when all those players arrived so he was involved in those deals

We were all made up because Everton have never made an early splash in the market like we did this time. That's the reason everyone was made up not because of who we signed like you've made out

How did signing Sigurdsson "create more problems than we could've known"?

You're clearly blaming Koeman over Lukaku, they knew months before that he was leaving so between them that was a colossal fuck up

I don't rate Walsh (or Koeman)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:07:48 AM
That's your opinion

Yes it is, but deep down you know they are not 'shit' players. You just like to be dramatic and deal in hyperbole quite a bit. If you genuinely think they are 'shit' then I can't wait to see the names you are going to buy for us when you get your new job. I hope you're thick skinned though
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:20:01 AM
Yes it is, but deep down you know they are not 'shit' players. You just like to be dramatic and deal in hyperbole quite a bit. If you genuinely think they are 'shit' then I can't wait to see the names you are going to buy for us when you get your new job. I hope you're thick skinned though

Those are also just your opinions. We've established you like expressing your opinions
I'm expressing mine, sorry you don't like them 🤷🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 06:20:16 AM
Hardly anyone he's signed is shit is debatable. Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie & Klaassen have a really long way to go to justify their hefty price tags (£110 ish million!), Walsh was here when all those players arrived so he was involved in those deals

We were all made up because Everton have never made an early splash in the market like we did this time. That's the reason everyone was made up not because of who we signed like you've made out

How did signing Sigurdsson "create more problems than we could've known"?

You're clearly blaming Koeman over Lukaku, they knew months before that he was leaving so between them that was a colossal fuck up

I don't rate Walsh (or Koeman)

Keane and Klassen have been here 5 minutes. Bolasie has had a major injury which might take another 6 months to get over and Scheiderlin does need to improve I agree, but we've certainly seen glimpses of his class especially at the tail end of last season. The fact that we've had inconsistent performances from him is because the manager is getting next to nothing out of him, like the majority of the team.
 
There's no way we were all made up just because we signed a lot of players early either. A fair few bigger clubs than everton were after the likes of Keane, Pickford and Sandro, so we knew were going for quality players with potential for plenty more years. Remember the agonising wait for us to sign Sandro on here? Over 100 + pages.... and all because he looked absolute class in Spain.
 
Chasing Sigurdsson for the best part of 2 months was ridiculous because after signing Klassen and Rooney, Koemans priority shouldve been making sure we had a presence up top to help the team and more notably Sandro and DCL through the season. Sigurdsson has now become a bit of a target due to his value and average performances. Koeman should've pulled the plug on the deal and realised we weren't desperate for another no.10. He doesn't answer to Walsh.... it's the other way around. Which is why the buck stops with him for no Lukaku replacement too and the general lack of quality performances, results and team spirit throughout this team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 02, 2017, 06:21:03 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's responsible as is Koeman
They're also both responsible for not replacing Lukaku & not signing a back up / replacement for Baines
Do you think Chizzy got a fair chance on 'Strictly'  tonight? Only two appearances and then dropped and probably hasn't got a locker either. We've never replaced Rachel Riley up front and two windows have passed since then. That's where the fault lies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:32:01 AM

Keane and Klassen have been here 5 minutes. Bolasie has had a major injury which might take another 6 months to get over and Scheiderlin does need to improve I agree, but we've certainly seen glimpses of his class especially at the tail end of last season. The fact that we've had inconsistent performances from him is because the manager is getting next to nothing out of him, like the majority of the team.
 
There's no way we were all made up just because we signed a lot of players early either. A fair few bigger clubs than everton were after the likes of Keane, Pickford and Sandro, so we knew were going for quality players with potential for plenty more years. Remember the agonising wait for us to sign Sandro on here? Over 100 + pages.... and all because he looked absolute class in Spain.
 
Chasing Sigurdsson for the best part of 2 months was ridiculous because after signing Klassen and Rooney, Koemans priority shouldve been making sure we had a presence up top to help the team and more notably Sandro and DCL through the season. Sigurdsson has now become a bit of a target due to his value and average performances. Koeman should've pulled the plug on the deal and realised we weren't desperate for another no.10. He doesn't answer to Walsh.... it's the other way around. Which is why the buck stops with him for no Lukaku replacement too and the general lack of quality performances, results and team spirit throughout this team.

That was the sole reason people were excited because we looked like we meant business not because of who we were signing

Did Bolasie look like a £30m player before he got injured?

Schneiderlin is playing in his preferred position, your argument would work if we were talking about say Sigurdsson who is a CAM and is being shunted out to left mid, Schneiderlin is useless

Keane & Klaassen are not worth what we've bought them for, it's obvious, infact bookmark this thread and I guarantee I'll be proven right at the end of the season

Sandro is garbage don't get me started on him

You don't know who answers to who out of Koeman & Walsh - you're just assuming so the buck resting with him comment is based off an assumption

The Sigurdsson deal - I agree we maybe didn't need him or if we did then we shouldn't have bought Klassen, the need for a striker was greater than the need for Sigurdsson but did Koeman know that we still wouldn't buy a striker even after we signed Sigurdsson?

I also agree that the performances & spirit are Koemans issues but to say Walsh is the poor blameless guy in this mess is ludicrous

They're equally to blame for the state of the squad

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on October 02, 2017, 06:46:29 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/838730e65f3d3b47da5bfffac331d51e.jpg)

Nuff said 😅
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:47:48 AM
Those are also just your opinions. We've established you like expressing your opinions
I'm expressing mine, sorry you don't like them 🤷🏻‍♂️


The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 06:53:04 AM
Wether players are good enough or not they didn't ask to be targeted by Everton, lack of shape,or not looking like there is a plan, the look of confusion generally as to what individual players are supposed to be doing within the team is all down to the manager,when it looks so easy for teams to move right through us with such ease is down to him there is just no redeeming features to this team, and there are some good players in there but they have a manager who dosen't know how to fix what he has caused.
     
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 02, 2017, 06:55:55 AM
I don't think there is much wrong with the purchases individually or collectively from his position. Last season I'd think it's be likely Walsh was responsible for signing Lookman, DCL, Gueye, this season I'd only say Onyekuru, but maybe Pickford or Keane, maybe identified Sandro, but Koeman certainly did the romancing if memory serves me correct. I think Rooney would have been unanimous, I look at Sigurdsson as more of a manager buy, given the eventual outlay, but think both probably wanted him.

There has been oversight in terms of the requirements. Our 2 main objectives in summer surely must have been replacing the 2 players who got the most goals and assists for us, 2 most central players to how we attacked. I think on paper we signed players who got more goals and assists last season, there just doesn't seem any logic about who is supposed to be doing what or how they fit together. That's more to do with the coaches domain, in terms of requesting certain types of players. We got virtually all the players we wanted and could get. If the manager was that worried about where the goals will come from, he had opportunity to make that a priority.

From our summer midfield signings, it's only really Vlasic who looks capable of running at opponents with the ball, think he'll become more central to our play because of necessity. But I also like DCL and I think he's been unlucky to not score a few and the supply has been pretty poor, compared to the level of service we gave Lukaku last year. I understand the logic in surrounding a striker with goal scoring midfielders, but we don't have the same presence up front, and I noticed increase in just aimless selfish hopeful shots from range. Whether it's desperation, lack of options or players competing against each other rather than working together, it's not a good habit.

In a world of Kevin Mirallas', Niasse is king.  :whistle:

But I think Walsh's remit is more about identifying players and making sure the business makes financial sense. It was Koeman's prerogative about what types of players he wanted, the priorities for the first team and how it fits together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:58:57 AM
The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery

I think I've explained my opinions pretty thoroughly to be fair, not really sure what else you'd like?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:59:55 AM
I think I've explained my opinions pretty thoroughly to be fair, not really sure what else you'd like?


Well if the term 'shit' is now the benchmark for thoroughly then yes you have. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 07:04:01 AM
Well if the term 'shit' is now the benchmark for thoroughly then yes you have.

We're going around in circles here Mr. Brown - I'm off to bed, have a nice night 👍
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:04:46 AM
We're going around in circles here Mr. Brown - I'm off to bed, have a nice night 👍

Raising the white flag are we? 😉
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 07:11:10 AM
Raising the white flag are we? 😉

Not really mate you've offered nothing in the way of an argument against anything I've said, just "they're not shit they're just underperforming"

I'm just bored & tired so I'm off to bed. Night mate 🛏
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:17:28 AM
Not really mate you've offered nothing in the way of an argument against anything I've said, just "they're not shit they're just underperforming"

I'm just bored & tired so I'm off to bed. Night mate 🛏

It was just a joke
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 07:29:12 AM
Thinking about all the players weve signed and vlasic seems to be one of the best of the bunch so far,,a player which came from a team

 we played twice in quick succession so absolutely fuck all to do with walsh or koeman....shame we never played atalanta first as their

 winger gomez looks really good with 16 goals and 91 chances created last year and 3 goals and 21 chances created so far this year

our ross last year scored 5 and created 82 chances
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 02, 2017, 07:46:30 AM
The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery

This might help - usually in Lower Gwladys but does tend to blend in with the croed
(http://churchofmabusradio.com/files/2012/07/538571_350060011718133_100001424113319_955773_1919666748_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
This might help - usually in Lower Gwladys but does tend to blend in with the croed
(http://churchofmabusradio.com/files/2012/07/538571_350060011718133_100001424113319_955773_1919666748_n.jpg)

Looks like most of the women from the Rhondda valleys

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 01:25:30 PM
Not blaming Walsh cos I think they might be koeman signings but Sigurdsson is a dreadful buy at the price and we overpaid on Pickford and Keane too. The market is inflated but we still paid too much
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:26:25 PM
Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?

Good points apart from the obvious...we knew Lukaku was going, so why was that position not the highest priority? Why spend so much time and effort on siggurdson?

This is a major failing. Whoever made that decision should take the responsibility for it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 02:56:18 PM

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.
...or the manager had a system planned but the head of recruitment didn’t buy him the players he needed to implement it
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:58:38 PM
...or the manager had a system planned but the head of recruitment didn’t buy him the players he needed to implement it

Can you see ANY evidence of a system?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:53:50 PM
Don't think there was much wrong with a lot of the signings, you could certainly make a sensible case for most of them really. The only one I'm unsure of is Klaassan, not because there might not be a decent payer in there somewhere, eventually, but because we just didn't need him. You could maybe argue that we didn't really need Sig either and certainly not at that price but he came with a decent pedigree so you'd have expected him to have shown more so far.

I just don't think we have a manager with either the man management skills or the tactical knowhow to manage a team at this level. His ego and personality might get in the way too. Maybe Walsh fucked up with the striker situation and another centre half but we signed about a dozen players this summer across both age groups, to expect him to find us basically a whole new first team in one summer was a big ask of anyone.

There is enough talent there to be playing at a higher level than we are at present, that's down to one man.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 05:25:50 PM
If you think Koeman knew who Onyekuru, Sandro, Vlasic and Gana were I think you'd be mistaken. It's obvious that Martina, Stek and Schneiderlin were Koeman signings. It's likely that Klaassen was also. Koeman also seemed to have a massive hard-on for Rooney and Sigurdsson. Who knows with the others? Yes, it's guesswork but educated guesswork.

You can go back all last Spring and see evidence of the Rooney hard-on.  Perhaps he's the classic "starfucker" type manager (after all, he was a legend, and no doubt remembers what it was like when he was on the decline, likely thought he was owed deference then too) and has lost the dressing room.

Just a working theory.

I would personally give Walsh some time before I blew his reign up, he obviously had no hand in picking Koeman.  Then again, no idea what @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) is referring to re these rumours, so not dismissing the "clean slate" option, either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 05:33:19 PM
By ‘baggage’ was he one of those paedo young coaches?

Christ, as I was on page 2 I was thinking "please, God, please don't let it be diddling 12 year olds"
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:06:50 PM
Thinking about all the players weve signed and vlasic seems to be one of the best of the bunch so far,,a player which came from a team

 we played twice in quick succession so absolutely fuck all to do with walsh or koeman....shame we never played atalanta first as their

 winger gomez looks really good with 16 goals and 91 chances created last year and 3 goals and 21 chances created so far this year

our ross last year scored 5 and created 82 chances

Yeah I agree he's class
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 02, 2017, 06:52:13 PM
The signings wouldn't have looked so bad if we had managed to sign a striker, a LB, a LCB and another winger.

As it is, they look bad as they don't fit into the formation our manager is trying to play.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 02, 2017, 07:29:07 PM
How the fuck anyone on here can answer this I don't know.

Walsh didn't make the decisions at Chelsea. Allardyce made them at Newcastle. At Hull, Pearson was the one deciding. At Leicester it was Pearson and then Ranieri.

Our recruitment structure is so opaque that assessing anything like that is difficult. He's getting a lot of stick for not bringing in a target man to replace Lukaku, but he tried to bring in one in January and one of the reasons Belfodil didn't come through was because Koeman wouldn't sign off on it without meeting the player.

Honestly, who is in a position to know?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on October 02, 2017, 08:31:19 PM
I've got no idea what he or Koeman do with regards to transfers, so no idea who to blame for anything.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 02, 2017, 08:37:12 PM
I've no idea, either!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 02, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
Not really about sacking Walsh.

But would Steve Walsh have any say in whether we would sack Koeman? I know that normally DOFs are involved in hiring managers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Not really about sacking Walsh.

But would Steve Walsh have any say in whether we would sack Koeman? I know that normally DOFs are involved in hiring managers.

He isn't really a Director of Football in the sense that one would normally associate one to be is he? He's head of scouting and recruitment really isn't he. Although the fact no-one knows what his remit is leads us to the situation.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 03, 2017, 01:40:21 AM
How the fuck anyone on here can answer this I don't know.

Walsh didn't make the decisions at Chelsea. Allardyce made them at Newcastle. At Hull, Pearson was the one deciding. At Leicester it was Pearson and then Ranieri.

Our recruitment structure is so opaque that assessing anything like that is difficult. He's getting a lot of stick for not bringing in a target man to replace Lukaku, but he tried to bring in one in January and one of the reasons Belfodil didn't come through was because Koeman wouldn't sign off on it without meeting the player.

Honestly, who is in a position to know?
This is my point too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 03, 2017, 04:12:01 AM
This is my point too.
Not getting a centre forward is obviously a major failing, but there are just too many plausible explanations.

Why didn't we bring one in?

Could we not convince players to join? Did our valuation not meet the selling club/player's wage demands? Our search seemed to focus on target men, was Koeman unwilling to compromise on that? Did Walsh suggest a number of players but couldn't convince Koeman of their worth? Did we ultimately decide that a strike force of Rooney, Sandro, Calvert-Lewin (and Niasse?) was enough to see us okay? Did we decide that developing Calvert-Lewin was a better option than signing the target man 8th down our list? Could we not afford one? Did we dwell too long on our number one choice when it might have been more prudent to wrap up a young potential target man early on as a back up just in case?

We can probably answer a couple of those from interviews and journalist mutterings, but most of them haven't been addressed at all.