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Title: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Everton News on October 03, 2017, 12:42:48 AM
Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman

Everton major shareholder Farhad Moshiri has given his full backing to bumbling Dutch manager Ronald Koeman after yet another appalling display from the Blues at the weekend.

Source: Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2017/10/moshiri-backs-bumbling-koeman/)
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 03, 2017, 12:50:23 AM
yayy!!
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 03, 2017, 01:34:53 AM
Always loved the term "bumbling" didn't think it was used nowadays.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Simon Paul on October 03, 2017, 01:46:11 AM
Always loved the term "bumbling" didn't think it was used nowadays.

it was lying dormant, but King Koeman brought it back to life
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 03, 2017, 01:55:18 AM
It was probably too wet for a golf bumble today, so he may have gone down town to book a holiday bumble..
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 03, 2017, 02:03:34 AM
Proper small time aren't we. Our 'ambitious' owner moans about mental fatigue at the start of October caused by too many European games.

Just when you thought we'd struck it lucky for once.

Totally ambivalent towards us at the minute if I'm honest. Watched us bumble through at weekend and it all felt a bit meh. Then another episode of the Moshiri and Jim White saga today.

Bollocks.

Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: TheTone on October 03, 2017, 02:39:42 AM
it was lying dormant, but King Koeman brought it back to life

playing poker now half pissed and when I get a King I swear it looks like Koeman on the card

pair of Koemans and I'm fucking folding
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: ajax_andy on October 03, 2017, 02:55:42 AM
I had been in Koeman's camp until this weekend, he was let down badly by the board with no striker being secured despite him saying for weeks before the window closed we needed one.

However it's clear he isnt capable tactically of doing anything decent with the set of players at his disposal and seems to just be alienating several of them which he can ill afford to do.

Needs to go and a proper tactician brought in.  The international break would have been the perfect time for this but it doesn't look like it'll happen any time soon unfortunately
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: fubarruk on October 03, 2017, 03:57:42 AM
I had been in Koeman's camp until this weekend, he was let down badly by the board with no striker being secured despite him saying for weeks before the window closed we needed one.

However it's clear he isnt capable tactically of doing anything decent with the set of players at his disposal and seems to just be alienating several of them which he can ill afford to do.

Needs to go and a proper tactician brought in.  The international break would have been the perfect time for this but it doesn't look like it'll happen any time soon unfortunately
To be fair this is my argument for him, he made it quite clear we needed a striker and the board didn't deliver.

Sorry but anyone coming in with this squad isn't going to magically get us scoring a hatfull of goals, we don't have the players.

That being said, the only thing I can't defend is the total lack of ideas we have to even create the chances we don't have the strikers to score...
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: arteta4spain on October 03, 2017, 04:36:35 AM
If it continues how long will it be before Moshiri changes his mind? Will he allow Koeman to stick it out and accept a low league finish. It baffles me this it really does. I have a feeling Kenwright would be putting Koeman on notice, but as Koeman was Moshiris choice he does t want to look a fool by sacking him half way through his contract.
If we still around 13th or lower around Christmas, surely he has to go? But even then I have a feeling Moshiri will keep him no matter what.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 03, 2017, 04:38:33 AM
I had been in Koeman's camp until this weekend, he was let down badly by the board with no striker being secured despite him saying for weeks before the window closed we needed one.

To be fair this is my argument for him, he made it quite clear we needed a striker and the board didn't deliver.

Sorry but anyone coming in with this squad isn't going to magically get us scoring a hatfull of goals, we don't have the players.shiri

That being said, the only thing I can't defend is the total lack of ideas we have to even create the chances we don't have the strikers to score...

Technically that didnt happen, Koemans choices 1 and 2 didnt want to come to us, choices 3-5 Koeman didnt want.. Walsh found him strikers, but Koeman didnt want them, then Moshiri came out with, we dont need any more strikers.

I dont know about the CB/LB situation, as nothing was ever mentioned in an interview as to why we didnt buy one..


Koeman revealed that he thought he had secured his ‘option one’ frontman – understood to be Arsenal’s Olivier Giroud – earlier in the summer, only to see the deal fall through.
Koeman said: “I cannot explain why (we didn’t sign a striker). I thought we had our option one in, and I was really disappointed by that.

"You need to understand that you can have option two, option three...and the right price for the right player is something we need to look at as well. Sometimes if you are interested in a player, then you know what they ask for that player is ridiculous.

“To get the first option as a striker in this team would have made the team stronger. Normally, that would have been easier.”


Wish people stop blaming the lack of strikers., ~Koeman chose not to buy other strikers for whatever reason.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: fubarruk on October 03, 2017, 04:44:51 AM
Technically that didnt happen, Koemans choices 1 and 2 didnt want to come to us, choices 3-5 Koeman didnt want.. Walsh found him strikers, but Koeman didnt want them, then Moshiri came out with, we dont need any more strikers.

I dont know about the CB/LB situation, as nothing was ever mentioned in an interview as to why we didnt buy one..


Koeman revealed that he thought he had secured his "option one' frontman – understood to be Arsenal's Olivier Giroud – earlier in the summer, only to see the deal fall through.
Koeman said: "I cannot explain why (we didn't sign a striker). I thought we had our option one in, and I was really disappointed by that.

"You need to understand that you can have option two, option three...and the right price for the right player is something we need to look at as well. Sometimes if you are interested in a player, then you know what they ask for that player is ridiculous.

"To get the first option as a striker in this team would have made the team stronger. Normally, that would have been easier.”


Wish people stop blaming the lack of strikers., ~Koeman chose not to buy other strikers for whatever reason.
Then it's still as much the board and Walsh's fault as it is Koemans.

Deals fall through, can accept that, but if Koeman didn't like option 2 or 3 then they needed to give him option 4 and 5, that's what he was brought in for.

Fact remains we knew Lukaku was leaving in March, they had 4 months minimum to secure a striker, not throw all their eggs in a Giroud shaped basket.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: toffee_scot on October 03, 2017, 05:11:54 AM
playing poker now half pissed and when I get a King I swear it looks like Koeman on the card

pair of Koemans and I'm fucking folding

Koeman is actually playing poker just now and about to declare his hand

(https://heartfeltpoker.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/pocket-10s.jpg)
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueMaquis on October 03, 2017, 05:21:09 AM
Then it's still as much the board and Walsh's fault as it is Koemans.

Deals fall through, can accept that, but if Koeman didn't like option 2 or 3 then they needed to give him option 4 and 5, that's what he was brought in for.

Fact remains we knew Lukaku was leaving in March, they had 4 months minimum to secure a striker, not throw all their eggs in a Giroud shaped basket.

I just can't understand why Koeman thought Giroud would help us move up the table in the first place. He's an ageing super-sub for a team which finished one place above us. It seems negligent to have that as our first choice. But perfectly in line with his comment that our aim was to finish "same as last year".
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Ravardo on October 03, 2017, 05:46:59 AM
Koeman is actually playing poker just now and about to declare his hand

(https://heartfeltpoker.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/pocket-10s.jpg)

I gather the other 2 are on the flop quite literally
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Tony Clifton on October 03, 2017, 05:52:48 AM
Everton CIA experiment aren't we? 

MKUltra MKEverton!

Convinced we're nothing but a bunch of burnt-out guinea pigs at this point, look at us!

Agents everywhere!

Where's the CIA money Bill?

If you don't hear from me before...

Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: bacon sarnie on October 03, 2017, 05:52:50 AM
Koeman is actually playing poker just now and about to declare his hand

(https://heartfeltpoker.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/pocket-10s.jpg)

Brilliant. Brought forth a much-needed fucking laugh that, ta.

Underground Overground Bumbling Free by Bee Bumble & the Stingers. Bet @eyesalwaysblue (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=789) blue has the single.......
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 03, 2017, 06:17:43 AM
I gather the other 2 are on the flop quite literally

means our midfields is Quads, the third best midfield in the premier league! (after the royal flush and the straight flush)
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: blueski on October 03, 2017, 08:12:56 AM
Hard to take away too much from these comments.

Could be theyre his actual opinion (which seems unlikely). Or just him trying to deflect attention either to buy the manager more time to turn it around or buy himself more time to shop for a replacement manager behind the scenes.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 03, 2017, 08:35:02 AM
Hard to take away too much from these comments.

Could be theyre his actual opinion (which seems unlikely). Or just him trying to deflect attention either to buy the manager more time to turn it around or buy himself more time to shop for a replacement manager behind the scenes.
He could have had some more "help and input" forced on him apart from the transfer window being taken out of his hands,if he has it may be the best short term solution.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Realist on October 03, 2017, 03:00:44 PM
The club and our "ambitious" new owner embrace mediocrity

I'm absolutely sick of hearing people saying "well we shouldn't have won those games anyway" - bullshit, if that's the mentality then why even bother turning up?

If Burnley had the same mentality as us then they'd have been somewhere near the bottom and crying about their hard start to the season, instead they're 6th in the league with 12 points having played Liverpool, Everton, Spurs & Chelsea AWAY, collecting 8 points from those games

We've got a losers mentality at the club and I'm sick of it, our squad cost 3 times as much as theirs did, our manager is on 12 TIMES their managers wage & yet it's universally accepted that our season didn't start until after the United game - it's fucking pathetic

Now we've got the owner coming out and telling us that the players are "tired" - they're paid millions every year to basically stay fit and play matches, so turn it in.

While we've got people running the club with the mentality he's got & fans happily accepting defeat we'll forever be mediocre - Everton aren't we.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Macca77 on October 03, 2017, 03:55:46 PM
Its all a bit messy isn't it, excuse after excuse
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: everton1952 on October 03, 2017, 04:39:23 PM
Koeman was doing OK at Southampton which is presumably why we went for him, and why probably the vast majority of fans were glad to have him, until now of course. It is not surprising that the owner will back him; as said elsewhere we are not like Crystal Palace, or others who go through 9 managers in 7 seasons. Even if there were a queue (which there is not) of successful unattached managers begging to be hired by Everton, this is not the time to change the manager. The names put out by angry fans to be his successor are just plucked at random from the latest  media crap, without the slightest idea of their suitability, an almost certain recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 03, 2017, 06:05:05 PM
RK was a superb footballer and may rely on this more than his man management skills

Alan Ball suffered this trait as a manager

Koeman does come across as a bit distant, but that shouldn't matter as long as he can get the best from his players

Reminds me of Harry Catterick - hardly any of his players had a good word to say about him....................but they performed



Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Hawkandro on October 03, 2017, 06:35:16 PM
If it continues how long will it be before Moshiri changes his mind? Will he allow Koeman to stick it out and accept a low league finish. It baffles me this it really does. I have a feeling Kenwright would be putting Koeman on notice, but as Koeman was Moshiris choice he does t want to look a fool by sacking him half way through his contract.
If we still around 13th or lower around Christmas, surely he has to go? But even then I have a feeling Moshiri will keep him no matter what.

Come the end of October we could well be out of Europe, out of the Carabao Cup and in the relegation zone. I would imagine he will be gone at that point if so.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Hawkandro on October 03, 2017, 06:37:01 PM
Koeman was doing OK at Southampton which is presumably why we went for him, and why probably the vast majority of fans were glad to have him, until now of course. It is not surprising that the owner will back him; as said elsewhere we are not like Crystal Palace, or others who go through 9 managers in 7 seasons. Even if there were a queue (which there is not) of successful unattached managers begging to be hired by Everton, this is not the time to change the manager. The names put out by angry fans to be his successor are just plucked at random from the latest  media crap, without the slightest idea of their suitability, an almost certain recipe for disaster.

Sadly, it now appears he was riding Pochettino's coat-tails, much like Martinez was riding Moyes's, albeit more successfully.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 03, 2017, 07:12:07 PM
In defence of Koeman at Southampton, he didn't inherit a team as such because half of them moved on after Pochettino left, and did a pretty good job at rebuilding them

Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 03, 2017, 08:25:21 PM
Come the end of October we could well be out of Europe, out of the Carabao Cup and in the relegation zone. I would imagine he will be gone at that point if so.

I think there is a very strong possibility this may be the case.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Hawkandro on October 03, 2017, 08:56:03 PM
In defence of Koeman at Southampton, he didn't inherit a team as such because half of them moved on after Pochettino left, and did a pretty good job at rebuilding them

You could also counter that by saying they have Les Reed who is their DoF, who had been in the role a few years by then, and had the scouting system in place with numerous targets lined up to replace the players that left.

(Playing Devil's Advocate)
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 03, 2017, 10:17:28 PM
Southampton in PL:

2012-13: 41 pts
2013-14: 56 pts
2014-15: 60 pts............Koeman*
2015-16: 63 pts............Koeman*
2016-17: 46 pts

*You've got to give credit to the manager!
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: formerKHL on October 03, 2017, 10:22:43 PM
The club and our "ambitious" new owner embrace mediocrity

I'm absolutely sick of hearing people saying "well we shouldn't have won those games anyway" - bullshit, if that's the mentality then why even bother turning up?

If Burnley had the same mentality as us then they'd have been somewhere near the bottom and crying about their hard start to the season, instead they're 6th in the league with 12 points having played Liverpool, Everton, Spurs & Chelsea AWAY, collecting 8 points from those games

We've got a losers mentality at the club and I'm sick of it, our squad cost 3 times as much as theirs did, our manager is on 12 TIMES their managers wage & yet it's universally accepted that our season didn't start until after the United game - it's fucking pathetic

Now we've got the owner coming out and telling us that the players are "tired" - they're paid millions every year to basically stay fit and play matches, so turn it in.

While we've got people running the club with the mentality he's got & fans happily accepting defeat we'll forever be mediocre - Everton aren't we.

I feel your pain....but you seem to base your opinion/argument on the fact of how much people earn....

based on that argument lets get Donald Trump in to manage with Richard Branson up front....
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Martip on October 03, 2017, 10:33:57 PM
The club and our "ambitious" new owner embrace mediocrity

I'm absolutely sick of hearing people saying "well we shouldn't have won those games anyway" - bullshit, if that's the mentality then why even bother turning up?

If Burnley had the same mentality as us then they'd have been somewhere near the bottom and crying about their hard start to the season, instead they're 6th in the league with 12 points having played Liverpool, Everton, Spurs & Chelsea AWAY, collecting 8 points from those games

We've got a losers mentality at the club and I'm sick of it, our squad cost 3 times as much as theirs did, our manager is on 12 TIMES their managers wage & yet it's universally accepted that our season didn't start until after the United game - it's fucking pathetic

Now we've got the owner coming out and telling us that the players are "tired" - they're paid millions every year to basically stay fit and play matches, so turn it in.

While we've got people running the club with the mentality he's got & fans happily accepting defeat we'll forever be mediocre - Everton aren't we.
Spot on....less talk more points with them all needing to earn their crusts. Moshri needs to pipe down on skysports too and throw more cash our way so we can lose the sell to buy mentality.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 03, 2017, 10:37:44 PM
Southampton in PL:

2012-13: 41 pts
2013-14: 56 pts
2014-15: 60 pts............Koeman*
2015-16: 63 pts............Koeman*
2016-17: 46 pts

*You've got to give credit to the manager!

Fair enough. I'm more concerned about the here and now though. Granted he steadied a rocky ship last season but this season the wheels seem to have fallen off and a lot of it seems to be of his own making. Frustrating to watch as we all had high hopes but his insistence on playing a system that doesn't work is proving his undoing.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 03, 2017, 11:03:45 PM
With the players to hand, do you think another manager would be doing that much better?

I'm not so sure; apart from the 10's in the pack, we don't have many cards to play - certainly no kings or aces (at the moment) just a joker card off the bench

Koeman can only play with the hand he's dealt - and I'm not so sure if he's happy with the dealer

Come January, we may well come up trumps!




Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: woodduck on October 03, 2017, 11:58:56 PM
I feel Moshiri has not done anything too off here, with the exception of accepting defeat to the big clubs as being normal.
He's trying to make it clear Koeman will not be going anywhere in the short term - which I think needed some sort of statement after the results we have been getting.
Also, saying he will give Koeman "support" to me means he will give him whatever he needs to get the job done. It doesn't mean he necessarily has faith that he will get us out of this mess, just that he plans on giving Koeman the tools he asks for. If it doesn't work out though - then you would hope he will not hesitate in sacking him.
At least, that's how I like to read it.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 04, 2017, 12:09:47 AM
With the players to hand, do you think another manager would be doing that much better?

I'm not so sure; apart from the 10's in the pack, we don't have many cards to play - certainly no kings or aces (at the moment) just a joker card off the bench

Koeman can only play with the hand he's dealt - and I'm not so sure if he's happy with the dealer

Come January, we may well come up trumps!






Yeah i think a manager that came in and actually spoke to the players with respect, gave them some confidence, then it would help massively. We have good players, some great players. But they play half heartedly. We need someone in with man management skills.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 04, 2017, 12:55:57 AM
So, how was Koeman's man management skills last season?

Are they that different this season?
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 04, 2017, 12:58:22 AM
So, how was Koeman's man management skills last season?

Are they that different this season?

In my opinion, the players have just got fed up of the way he works. Maybe they dont agree with how he has treated certain players etc. I duno just speculating but if my boss treated me that way, i wouldnt be running through walls for him/her.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: kramer0 on October 04, 2017, 01:05:39 AM
It's no surprise to see diminishing returns from the blunt approach to man management.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 04, 2017, 01:08:50 AM
It's no surprise to see diminishing returns from the blunt approach to man management.

Si had been hinting at such all along, to his credit.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: gizzblue on October 04, 2017, 01:29:09 AM
There is only so long a manager can live on :' do you know I won it all as a player ..... seeing him smirking during the match at the weekend compounded my hatred for all things RK.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 04, 2017, 03:15:54 AM
Whatever Koeman's approach, his PL record is good -

60 pts - 7th
63 pts - 6th
61 pts - 7th

As with players - form dips, but class comes through






Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Juanito on October 04, 2017, 05:27:27 AM
Whatever Koeman's approach, his PL record is good -

60 pts - 7th
63 pts - 6th
61 pts - 7th

As with players - form dips, but class comes through



Pretty ropey around Europe though.



Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 04, 2017, 03:55:49 PM
Goal difference good, too:

2013-14: +21
2014-15: +18
2015-16: +18

Consistent

Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Ross on October 04, 2017, 04:34:30 PM
Goal difference good, too:

2013-14: +21
2014-15: +18
2015-16: +18

Consistent



He’s spent roughly £400m on two established premier league squads since he’s been in the league, you’d expect those sort of figures from any experienced manager given that sort of backing. Let alone one who’s the 8th highest remunerated in world football.

You’d also expect better cup performances and at least a resemblance of occasional exciting football against the better teams. Surely that’s not asking to much is it?





Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 04, 2017, 05:28:27 PM
Cannot help the cost of players

People on this forum think that Sigurdsson is not worth £45m

Koeman may well have thought that, too

Keane's form, so far, has been underwhelming - his own doing or Koeman's?

I'd be very surprised if any other Southampton manager overhauls Koeman's two PL seasons there - especially in succession



 
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: sam of the south on October 04, 2017, 05:45:35 PM
He’s spent roughly £400m on two established premier league squads since he’s been in the league, you’d expect those sort of figures from any experienced manager given that sort of backing. Let alone one who’s the 8th highest remunerated in world football.

You’d also expect better cup performances and at least a resemblance of occasional exciting football against the better teams. Surely that’s not asking to much is it?







Indeed.

In fact, I would be made up with 90 minutes of exciting football against one of the lesser teams.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 04, 2017, 05:46:47 PM
Cannot help the cost of players

People on this forum think that Sigurdsson is not worth £45m

Koeman may well have thought that, too

Keane's form, so far, has been underwhelming - his own doing or Koeman's?

I'd be very surprised if any other Southampton manager overhauls Koeman's two PL seasons there - especially in succession



 

But his career has always peaked and troughed. Success in Holland followed by failure at a high profile and demanding club in Valencia. Success for Southampton followed by challenging times at a higher profile and demanding club in Everton.
His two peaks at Soton coincided with our lows under Martinez, he'd have finished under us if we'd reverted to our average form and league positions.
The point is he was never a serious upgrade for where we wanted to be. He was a big named stopgap who was probably only ever going to consolidate 7th for us and no more really. He's not innovative or charismatic or loyal, all of which were known before his appointment.

In my opinion he was a vanity appointment by an owner who wanted to make a statement by appointing an ex-legend of the game, without doing serious due diligence on whether he was the right fit for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 06, 2017, 01:17:11 AM
They wheeled Reidy out to back him now,keeps getting better.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 06, 2017, 01:30:06 AM
Cannot help the cost of players

People on this forum think that Sigurdsson is not worth £45m

Koeman may well have thought that, too

Keane's form, so far, has been underwhelming - his own doing or Koeman's?

I'd be very surprised if any other Southampton manager overhauls Koeman's two PL seasons there - especially in succession

I dont understand, why after buying Klaassen, (a number 10) then Rooney (another number 10) why we still went all out for Sigurdsson, (another number 10) on the day we bought Siggy, we actually signed another number 10!! (Vlasic)

Fucking shocking really, considering, we had Barkley (a much more dynamic number ten than the first 3 number tens we bought)

Why not give up on Siggy, and go all out for a striker.. so the number tens actually had someone to aim for..

Just one of the many reasons that Koeman needs to go.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: toffee_scot on October 06, 2017, 02:55:30 AM
But his career has always peaked and troughed. Success in Holland followed by failure at a high profile and demanding club in Valencia. Success for Southampton followed by challenging times at a higher profile and demanding club in Everton.
His two peaks at Soton coincided with our lows under Martinez, he'd have finished under us if we'd reverted to our average form and league positions.
The point is he was never a serious upgrade for where we wanted to be. He was a big named stopgap who was probably only ever going to consolidate 7th for us and no more really. He's not innovative or charismatic or loyal, all of which were known before his appointment.

In my opinion he was a vanity appointment by an owner who wanted to make a statement by appointing an ex-legend of the game, without doing serious due diligence on whether he was the right fit for the foreseeable future.

I was initially quite supportive of Koeman's appointment because he did a really good job at Southampton considering every season half of their team wanted to leave or were approached by Liverpool and other clubs and he managed to recruit and work with a few decent players to turn Southampton into a good solid Premier League side. He seemed a no nonsense manager who knew the Premier League well and would sort out our defence which was atrocious at the time and get us much further up the table.

Granted he might have seemed a 'safe' option but to be fair he came in, saw there was quite a bit of work to do and managed to turn a very demoralised team into a team that finished in the top 7. I'm sure though Moshiri partly wanted to appoint him because he was a very well known name in football and spoke about NW England being some sort of "Hollywood" for managers.

However this season, we were supposed to see improvement but the complete opposite has happened - I don't think many people saw this at all. Some could look at our transfer policy but it is still up to the manager to get the best out of the team especially as he will have been consulted about the signings especially the likes of Martina, Rooney and Sigurdsson which he has wanted for a while. Looking at his record though it is true that his managerial career has been quite patchy and I think he also resigned from one of the Dutch clubs he managed. My big concern was also the fact he has managed 7 clubs before us so he is not really a long term manager whatever the 'project' might be.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Escla on October 08, 2017, 02:17:18 PM
Papers today saying he has been given till end of October to sort it out, Aldo that Arsenal and Spurs are interested in Lookman, would you blame the kid if he wanted to go back to London ?
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 08, 2017, 02:27:01 PM
Are Holland looking for a new manager? Their only way is up!

Is Lookman suffering homesickness?  A few London clubs linked
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Escla on October 08, 2017, 02:35:12 PM
Are Holland looking for a new manager? Their only way is up!

Is Lookman suffering homesickness?  A few London clubs linked

Not sure it's homesickness, think he'd just like to be given the chance to play football.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: everton1952 on October 08, 2017, 04:10:46 PM
Blimey, if Everton recover and regain our position around 7th, as I hope all Evertonians do, then there are a lot of folk on here who will have to eat shit for their condemnation and complete rejection of Koeman.  If things come good again, I will feel smug because I have never committed myself one way or the other. I still retain hope he will make us good again and we can forge ahead into an ever brighter future, and today's misery can be put behind us. If we lose at Brighton, all hell will break loose on this site.  I won't change my mind, but God help our cat if we do lose there. The end is not yet nigh as some seem to think.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: BlueForYou on October 08, 2017, 05:25:18 PM
The Holland question was really tongue in cheek (failed to qualify for World Cup) and, therefore, a possible mutual get out clause for both parties!

I am supportive of Koeman's contract to be honoured by both he and club

Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Confucius on October 08, 2017, 10:40:16 PM
Blimey, if Everton recover and regain our position around 7th, as I hope all Evertonians do, then there are a lot of folk on here who will have to eat shit for their condemnation and complete rejection of Koeman.  If things come good again, I will feel smug because I have never committed myself one way or the other. I still retain hope he will make us good again and we can forge ahead into an ever brighter future, and today's misery can be put behind us. If we lose at Brighton, all hell will break loose on this site.  I won't change my mind, but God help our cat if we do lose there. The end is not yet nigh as some seem to think.


Just finishing seventh isn't good enough.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: blueski on October 08, 2017, 10:49:50 PM
In my opinion he was a vanity appointment by an owner who wanted to make a statement by appointing an ex-legend of the game, without doing serious due diligence on whether he was the right fit for the foreseeable future.
doubt this

yes his name was probably a factor but for positive rather than negative reasons - ie player recruitment

also maybe a little too much focus was on the manager personality and I think the board was fed up also with Martinez & the way he whitewashed everything - they wanted a strong personality who would tell it like it is. Unfortunately maybe they went too far in the opposite direction or focused too much on this one characteristic?

Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: brap2 on October 08, 2017, 11:13:03 PM
Not sure it's homesickness, think he'd just like to be given the chance to play football.


Done absolutely fuck all when played yet Everton fans convinced he's the silver bullet 🙄
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 08, 2017, 11:27:41 PM
saying you'd like him to get a few sub minutes here and there is hardly "silver bullet"
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Escla on October 08, 2017, 11:34:46 PM
Done absolutely fuck all when played yet Everton fans convinced he's the silver bullet 🙄

I don't see how anyone would suggest that he is the silver bullet, nor do I see anyone on here saying he is ?  Saying that one of the reasons that he would be receptive to an offer to move back to London because he might feel that his chances of getting on the pitcwould be improved is not suggesting he is.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 09, 2017, 12:28:40 AM
Done absolutely fuck all when played yet Everton fans convinced he's the silver bullet 🙄

Scored on his debut, also we have no wingers, maybe if koeman actually played him, we may actually see more of him.. he's scored an amazing goal for the under 23s a week or 2 back. .so good it was on the EFC youtube page as part of the goal of the month for September.. along with Niasse V Bournemouth and Sunderland and DCL V Sunderland.


Imagine him getting a run out. getting confident and  Everton actually playing with a winger... but Koeman would rather not play him, play Davies as the winger and 3 number tens..

but yeah as you said Brap he;s done fuck all, ignore he hasnt played, ignore that Koeman doesnt like wingers.. Just say Lookman is shit. (he reminds me of Gray from Leicester, same sort of player.)
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: plumber on October 09, 2017, 12:37:09 AM

Just finishing seventh isn't good enough.

Yes, he should add a semifinal and quarterfinal to that.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: brap2 on October 09, 2017, 12:56:21 AM
I don't see how anyone would suggest that he is the silver bullet, nor do I see anyone on here saying he is ?  Saying that one of the reasons that he would be receptive to an offer to move back to London because he might feel that his chances of getting on the pitcwould be improved is not suggesting he is.

He comes up an inordinate amount for a youth player who's been largely shite and wasteful.

I like the look of him but he's clearly being used as a stick to beat Koeman with, despite his quiet performances. Undeniable imo.

Plus I listen to a lot of that blueroom and they fucking bang on about him constantly, which may or may not have shaded my reply.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: gizzblue on October 09, 2017, 01:08:13 AM
He comes up an inordinate amount for a youth player who's been largely shite and wasteful.

I like the look of him but he's clearly being used as a stick to beat Koeman with, despite his quiet performances. Undeniable imo.

Plus I listen to a lot of that blueroom and they fucking bang on about him constantly, which may or may not have shaded my reply.
We don't need a stick to beat Koeman his inept ego driven attitude towards 'football' is plenty for most on here .
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: brap2 on October 09, 2017, 01:09:36 AM
We don't need a stick to beat Koeman his inept ego driven attitude towards 'football' is plenty for most on here .

Yep agree no issues with that, but like I say, he is being used as a stick to beat him with.

Put green on ffs.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 09, 2017, 01:13:03 AM
He comes up an inordinate amount for a youth player who's been largely shite and wasteful.

I like the look of him but he's clearly being used as a stick to beat Koeman with, despite his quiet performances. Undeniable imo.

Plus I listen to a lot of that blueroom and they fucking bang on about him constantly, which may or may not have shaded my reply.

lol shit and wasteful for someone  whose played less than a half of football in the premier league this season.... im not using him to beat Koeman, i just dont understand why he doesnt play when we need width, doesnt play Mirallas either or Lennon.

its more like Koeman hates wingers, and he's too stubborn to see it. but if you want to go the other way, stick to beat a manager who has no width in his team,. that fine.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Escla on October 09, 2017, 01:41:44 AM
He comes up an inordinate amount for a youth player who's been largely shite and wasteful.

I like the look of him but he's clearly being used as a stick to beat Koeman with, despite his quiet performances. Undeniable imo.

Plus I listen to a lot of that blueroom and they fucking bang on about him constantly, which may or may not have shaded my reply.

Aaah ! The Blueroom, that explains it  :snigger:
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: everton1952 on October 09, 2017, 01:55:50 AM

Just finishing seventh isn't good enough.
Frankly, what utter shite after this bad start.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: brap2 on October 09, 2017, 03:15:56 AM
lol shit and wasteful for someone  whose played less than a half of football in the premier league this season.... im not using him to beat Koeman, i just dont understand why he doesnt play when we need width, doesnt play Mirallas either or Lennon.

its more like Koeman hates wingers, and he's too stubborn to see it. but if you want to go the other way, stick to beat a manager who has no width in his team,. that fine.

Yeah I was a bit unfair on him I think. I Would like to see him play more, I just think he isn't ready or going to change anything.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 09, 2017, 03:19:25 PM
I just think if he's not going to be getting minutes at a senior level then he's really better suited to a loan move away in January. We'll be out of the Carabou Cup shortly, probably out of Europe too if things carry on so the available minutes will have diminished somewhat. He's got talent and he needs games to progress and if he's not getting it here then for his development he needs to be playing every week.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Escla on October 09, 2017, 03:47:19 PM
 Call me mad but I wouldn't write us off in the Carabao cup just yet, if we really do get our act together during this break and if Koeman gets a game plan together (that's the biggest if) then we could nick it. Morata and Kante both out, they play Roma away 6 days later after a Saturday game in the PL, Conte will certainly prioritise the PL and CL over the Caraboa Cup and might not risk Batushey picking up a knock, probably wishful thinking but we can but hope.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 09, 2017, 03:54:37 PM
Call me mad but I wouldn't write us off in the Carabao cup just yet, if we really do get our act together during this break and if Koeman gets a game plan together (that's the biggest if) then we could nick it. Morata and Kante both out, they play Roma away 6 days later after a Saturday game in the PL, Conte will certainly prioritise the PL and CL over the Caraboa Cup and might not risk Batushey picking up a knock, probably wishful thinking but we can but hope.

Their second string have more fire in their belly than our first team. Sad but true. They will be first to every 50/50, they'll know what to do with the ball when they get it and they'll actually try and score a goal instead of playing a safe ball.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Escla on October 09, 2017, 04:02:11 PM
Their second string have more fire in their belly than our first team. Sad but true. They will be first to every 50/50, they'll know what to do with the ball when they get it and they'll actually try and score a goal instead of playing a safe ball.

That was my heart talking, my head agrees with you, sadly.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: everton1952 on October 09, 2017, 05:45:09 PM
Is there still a lake in Stanley Park? Maybe we should all jump in and put an end to all this misery, unless the lake is already full of Scotland supporters.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Hawkandro on October 09, 2017, 06:11:51 PM
I just think if he's not going to be getting minutes at a senior level then he's really better suited to a loan move away in January. We'll be out of the Carabou Cup shortly, probably out of Europe too if things carry on so the available minutes will have diminished somewhat. He's got talent and he needs games to progress and if he's not getting it here then for his development he needs to be playing every week.

TBF, if we are out of both competitions in the next few weeks, our new manager may well play him.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Silas on October 10, 2017, 02:25:54 AM
Lookman is the new deulofeu. People want him on the pitch then moan when he's average then forget he is when he doesn't play. Rinse and repeat
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 10, 2017, 02:58:43 AM
Lookman is the new deulofeu. People want him on the pitch then moan when he's average then forget he is when he doesn't play. Rinse and repeat


LOL Lookmans played a handful of times, Deulofeu played a considerable amount more..

Ive banged Lookmans drum since i joined on here (as well as other youngsters)

I havent moaned about him being average, i think he should atleast get the last 20 mins.. oh wait.. your in the Koeman mind frame? we dont need width.. and the only width we need is Martina..

sorry disregard my post.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Silas on October 10, 2017, 03:02:08 AM

LOL Lookmans played a handful of times, Deulofeu played a considerable amount more..

Ive banged Lookmans drum since i joined on here (as well as other youngsters)

I havent moaned about him being average, i think he should atleast get the last 20 mins.. oh wait.. your in the Koeman mind frame? we dont need width.. and the only width we need is Martina..

sorry disregard my post.

I actually think he should play more, I think Lennon should be featuring more as well if he's at all fit, I just think he's far from the answer and he's going to be under undue pressure when he does play because people have to hang their faith on someone. Hell, people clambering for Niasse and now he's been deemed shite again on one game!
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: School of Science on October 10, 2017, 03:05:21 AM

LOL Lookmans played a handful of times, Deulofeu played a considerable amount more..

Ive banged Lookmans drum since i joined on here (as well as other youngsters)

I havent moaned about him being average, i think he should atleast get the last 20 mins.. oh wait.. your in the Koeman mind frame? we dont need width.. and the only width we need is Martina..

sorry disregard my post.

Prefer to see Vlasic myself unless they can play either wing. Vlasic scored two tonight for Croatia under 21 's. Seems a more powerful player as well.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 10, 2017, 04:58:18 AM
I actually think he should play more, I think Lennon should be featuring more as well if he's at all fit, I just think he's far from the answer and he's going to be under undue pressure when he does play because people have to hang their faith on someone. Hell, people clambering for Niasse and now he's been deemed shite again on one game!

true, lots of fans change their minds/forget things easily..

Lennon should have got a look in when we where playing 3-5-2 especially as Koeman doesnt seem to like/rate/trust Kenny..

I would like us to stick with DCL and Niasse upfront.but in the Prem match Niasse did start for most of the that match he was out on the wing and tracking back.. just a waste ;/
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: TheRam on October 10, 2017, 05:34:43 AM
Don't think anyone is saying he should be starting every game.

But he should be getting a lot more game time than he's had so far and that's not for debate.

If we we're to sell someone with so much potential because of a manager who hates any sort of creativity I'll be fuming tbh.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Rhys on October 10, 2017, 03:47:46 PM
Lookman is the new deulofeu. People want him on the pitch then moan when he's average then forget he is when he doesn't play. Rinse and repeat

Except with Deulofeu if you had him on the pitch for 30 minutes you knew you'd get a chance or two created from him, even with plenty of frustrating moments, lack of effort to help defensively and probably be knackered by the end but he pretty much guaranteed chance creation. If he played 60-75 minutes you'd get 3+ chances in the game from him so it was a toss up of do you put up with his weaknesses for the productivity he brought.

With Lookman we havent seen, could argue havent had chance to, if he can consistently create chances or get into goalscoring positions, take chances well etc. I would be using him more off the bench than we have been because he is different and how lifeless we have been sometimes you need that type of player. But I dont go along with the view a lot seem to have that he will automatically solve problems because we as fans purely havent seen in the games he has played that he will do what people are expecting regularly right now.

I wouldnt be considering selling him because there is a lot of natural talent there for someone to bring out, however I think the clamour for him to start is based on what people want him to be or could become than what he is right now in my opinion.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Macca77 on October 10, 2017, 04:18:17 PM
Lookman should start for me because he has the one thing that none of our players seem to have, pace.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Lxxx on October 10, 2017, 04:44:51 PM
As with Niasse he's probably best utilised from the bench, however that isn't going to aid his development. He's not yet good enough to start games in the Premier League so a loan move to a promising Championship club is about his level at the moment. It was a big ask to jump from League One to Premier League.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Realist on October 10, 2017, 05:13:38 PM
Blimey, if Everton recover and regain our position around 7th, as I hope all Evertonians do, then there are a lot of folk on here who will have to eat shit for their condemnation and complete rejection of Koeman.  If things come good again, I will feel smug because I have never committed myself one way or the other. I still retain hope he will make us good again and we can forge ahead into an ever brighter future, and today's misery can be put behind us. If we lose at Brighton, all hell will break loose on this site.  I won't change my mind, but God help our cat if we do lose there. The end is not yet nigh as some seem to think.

On the flip side you'll regret this post if it goes the other way
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Realist on October 10, 2017, 05:17:55 PM
Yes, he should add a semifinal and quarterfinal to that.

& there we have it - the loser mentality which plagues the club and the fans
Shoot for the stars son
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: plumber on October 10, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
& there we have it - the loser mentality which plagues the club and the fans
Shoot for the stars son

If you don't believe me that semifinal is a great achievement, ask @Confucius (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=196) or @Ross (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2316)
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Realist on October 10, 2017, 06:34:41 PM
If you don't believe me that semifinal is a great achievement, ask @Confucius (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=196) or @Ross (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2316)

I don't need to ask anyone - it is what I said it is
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: plumber on October 10, 2017, 06:41:46 PM
I don't need to ask anyone - it is what I said it is

Listening to other people's opinion could expand your horizon. But ok.
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Realist on October 10, 2017, 07:16:54 PM
Listening to other people's opinion could expand your horizon. But ok.

No thanks, like I said it is what it is, no one will change my opinion
Title: Re: [News]Moshiri backs bumbling Koeman
Post by: Rhys on October 10, 2017, 07:33:47 PM
Getting to semi finals, finals or later cup rounds shouldnt be completely disregarded. Doing that implies that it is completely irrelevant if you go out in the 3rd round or the semi final which it isnt, the more you get to the later rounds of cup competitions the better team you are, the more likely better players or to stay/attract better players and the more chance you have of winning something. Very few teams go out early on most times and win something out of nowhere.

Where it becomes slightly less meaningful is like it was with Roberto when the league position was really poor and there were so many things wrong with what he was doing with us over a 2 year period that meant becoming a consistently successful team was highly unlikely. And some of those elements all came together for us to fall apart in the 2nd leg of the semi final at city.

The league is the main focus for every team because the better you in the league consistently season after season means the more chance you have of winning trophies and not just a one off trophy. If things pick up under Koeman, rectifies some of the errors and we get better and we finish well in the league for the next 2 seasons but go nowhere in the cups he will be questioned more about his future than if we finish well in the league for 2 seasons and get to say 2-3 semi finals in cups because in the second scenario it is showing all round consistency and you could see with some improvements trophies might not be far away.