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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Everton News on October 15, 2017, 09:57:03 PM

Title: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Everton News on October 15, 2017, 09:57:03 PM
Hapless Koeman MUST go

In the thirteen years that NSNO has been in production, Ronald Koeman is the first manager we have actively called for to be sacked from Everton.

Source: Hapless Koeman MUST go (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2017/10/hapless-koeman-must-go/)
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 15, 2017, 10:01:03 PM
Oh well done you
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: nwatson on October 15, 2017, 10:02:25 PM
I have actually started to hate the man. Never liked the prick as a player and fucking detest him now.
I didn't even cheer when we got the penalty. I actually just got a sinking feeling that it would mean he got the next few games to completely ruin our season.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 15, 2017, 10:03:32 PM
Totally agree on Koeman.

One thing this flags up is how ridiculous it was that you didn't call for Martinez to be fired. That 4-0 derby at Anfield with 37 shots at our goal. What were you thinking?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 15, 2017, 10:05:03 PM
I must say, this is the most united us NSNO folk have ever been on just about anything.  It's hard to even fashion a clique joke, FFS!
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 10:06:39 PM
Totally agree on Koeman.

One thing this flags up is how ridiculous it was that you didn't call for Martinez to be fired. That 4-0 derby at Anfield with 37 shots at our goal. What were you thinking?

we had a big game coming up and there were two ways of thinking - change it and stand a chance of winning, or change it and ruin any chance of winning.  Only hindsight shows which was right, nobody outside the club knew at the time, in reality.

also at the time, nobody inside the club truly believed how seriously fans felt, despite being told
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 15, 2017, 10:09:54 PM
we had a big game coming up and there were two ways of thinking - change it and stand a chance of winning, or change it and ruin any chance of winning.  Only hindsight shows which was right, nobody outside the club knew at the time, in reality.

also at the time, nobody inside the club truly believed how seriously fans felt, despite being told

Fair enough. Thanks for the direct, honest reply.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 15, 2017, 10:11:42 PM
we had a big game coming up and there were two ways of thinking - change it and stand a chance of winning, or change it and ruin any chance of winning.  Only hindsight shows which was right, nobody outside the club knew at the time, in reality.

also at the time, nobody inside the club truly believed how seriously fans felt, despite being told

Do they now?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Coyb12 on October 15, 2017, 10:12:16 PM
Hapless Koeman MUST go

In the thirteen years that NSNO has been in production, Ronald Koeman is the first manager we have actively called for to be sacked from Everton.

Source: Hapless Koeman MUST go (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2017/10/hapless-koeman-must-go/)
Your fucked when he turns it around.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 15, 2017, 10:13:47 PM
Gotta go
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Coyb12 on October 15, 2017, 10:17:03 PM
Gotta go
Ok see ya.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 15, 2017, 10:18:25 PM
Your fucked when he turns it around.

Grammar.  Is it well important?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Coyb12 on October 15, 2017, 10:19:49 PM
Grammar.  Is it well important?
Sorry,you are a knobhead is that ok.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 15, 2017, 10:20:54 PM
Spacing and punctuation need work.  Also, maybe get a mirror.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 15, 2017, 10:22:30 PM
One thing this flags up is how ridiculous it was that you didn't call for Martinez to be fired

Agree.

Martinez was nice to the forums and fan clubs though, probably bought him some favour.

Koeman doesn't even pretend to care.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 10:22:38 PM
Do they now?

I've no idea to be honest

The people who I used to speak to regularly would be very stupid if they looked at social media - as they did back then - and didn't take it seriously, which they didn't back then

the weight of Everton fans' feelings is huge, and shouldn't be ignored

Your fucked when he turns it around.

not really, I'll be enjoying watching Everton winning games.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Coyb12 on October 15, 2017, 10:25:14 PM
Spacing and punctuation need work.  Also, maybe get a mirror.
The last sentence tells a story,have you got nothing better to do than correct people on shit like that, it's a football forum full of pissed off fellas who don't give a fuck if it's your or you fucking are you tit.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 10:26:07 PM
Agree.

Martinez was nice to the forums and fan clubs though, probably bought him some favour.

Koeman doesn't even pretend to care.

we're still the only fan group to have interviewed Koeman by the way ;)
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 15, 2017, 10:28:03 PM
we're still the only fan group to have interviewed Koeman by the way ;)

And I put that in the back of my mind all along.  Certainly a factor in judging whether it's likely the dressing room has turned on him very, very quickly like it seemingly has.  Thanks for sharing with us.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 15, 2017, 10:28:34 PM
we're still the only fan group to have interviewed Koeman by the way ;)

You've never taken to him though. Even during our decent run last season you were sniping. Not that I've got a problem with it, at least you were (kind of) honest about it.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Ross on October 15, 2017, 10:32:31 PM
Bad appointment from the beginning, the sooner itís rectified the better.

My biggest concern is he limps by to January and gets given more money to spend. The longer heís here the more damage heís capable of.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: sam of the south on October 15, 2017, 10:33:37 PM
we're still the only fan group to have interviewed Koeman by the way ;)

I wouldn't go shouting that around 😉
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 15, 2017, 10:40:26 PM
You've never taken to him though. Even during our decent run last season you were sniping. Not that I've got a problem with it, at least you were (kind of) honest about it.

Yeah it moved onto jibes about the drink though. Which is unacceptable by any decent standards. I'm probably in the minority again.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 15, 2017, 10:43:22 PM
The board need to grow a pair of balls and get rid, it's not working with him in charge, we can all see that so its about time they did something about it
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Everton Mint on October 15, 2017, 10:58:40 PM
There really needs to be some fan action to force a change now.

The worst that could happen and its already started with the atmos at home games, is fan apathy and resignation to our fate.

We need a massive boost and shake up and NOW.

Otherwise I can see us being the next Villa..
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 15, 2017, 10:59:07 PM
we're still the only fan group to have interviewed Koeman by the way ;)

You've openly disliked him from day 1 lolol
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 11:00:48 PM
You've openly disliked him from day 1 lolol

Yes.  I have.

To insinuate that it's because he hasn't spoken to us is wrong, though. 
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 15, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
I suppose now we'll see if we really do have an ambitious owner or just a commercially savvy guy who has spotted the chance to make a few quid by a smart investment.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 15, 2017, 11:02:06 PM
Yes.  I have.

To insinuate that it's because he hasn't spoken to us is wrong, though.

Alright I'll rephrase, spoke to you but essentially fucked you off
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 11:07:47 PM
Alright I'll rephrase, spoke to you but essentially fucked you off

Nope.  Answered our questions, laughed at the correct point, then essentially didn't speak to any fan groups after that because that's not what he does.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've not requested any further interviews with him.  In fact, I've not asked for any interviews with anyone currently involved in the first team since that interview with Koeman. 

I was happy getting the invites to Finch Farm for the site under Martinez, and to be brutally honest, I'm just as happy with not getting them now.  It always felt a bit weird when I went up there (can't speak for @Silas (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=100) or @Bally (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=19) on that one) but it was always good fun.  We survived 10 years or so without doing that type of stuff though, and I for one am quite happy doing whatever it is we do at the moment as a website.

Under Martinez the media team seemed more inclined to include sites like us, under Moyes they couldn't have been less inclined.  At least now they don't cross the road when they see us, or fire shots at us in interviews!
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: arteta4spain on October 15, 2017, 11:19:02 PM
I'm assuming he does, but does Kenwright go to every away game? With him being there is he just a casual observer or is there more to it? I suppose Moshiri would be there if there was anything in this? Every time the camera panned to Kenwright he looked pissed off. Maybe it's the start of the end for Koeman?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Realist on October 15, 2017, 11:20:37 PM
The last sentence tells a story,have you got nothing better to do than correct people on shit like that, it's a football forum full of pissed off fellas who don't give a fuck if it's your or you fucking are you tit.

That's one unhappy 14 year old road man
On Koeman I've said since I joined here he's shit, a mediocre, damaging appointment. Whoever comes in has to rebuild the mess that is the squad we've got right now
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TheRam on October 15, 2017, 11:20:58 PM
Worth remembering that Koeman is kenwrights man like Moyes and Martinez were.

It's moshiris man and he's the one the supposedley holds all the ambition.

Time for him to take the step and change it.

Get unsworth in for Lyon and Arsenal and the mood around the club will be a lot different.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 11:21:47 PM
I'm assuming he does, but does Kenwright go to every away game? With him being there is he just a casual observer or is there more to it? I suppose Moshiri would be there if there was anything in this? Every time the camera panned to Kenwright he looked pissed off. Maybe it's the start of the end for Koeman?

think he goes to quite a lot.  If he's not there, John Woods is.  Brighton isn't too far from London so he took the missis as well.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Redartin on October 15, 2017, 11:22:10 PM
Totally agree on Koeman.

One thing this flags up is how ridiculous it was that you didn't call for Martinez to be fired. That 4-0 derby at Anfield with 37 shots at our goal. What were you thinking?

At that time I think we suffered from, and still do to a certain extent, Moyesitis. A condition where you continue flogging a dead horse and don't know when enough is enough. The Moyes years appear to have conditioned us into thinking a manager is not just for Christmas, it is for life. (Sorry maybe that's a dog). Anyway you know what I mean, we are not a club used to changing managers and we are therefore prepared to give too many chances when the warning signs are there and clear for all to see.

I have to add Man Utd were in a similar situation post Ferguson but they weren't long about getting rid of both Moyes and their Dutch disaster.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Realist on October 15, 2017, 11:25:24 PM
Worth remembering that Koeman is kenwrights man like Moyes and Martinez were.

It's moshiris man and he's the one the supposedley holds all the ambition.

Time for him to take the step and change it.

Get unsworth in for Lyon and Arsenal and the mood around the club will be a lot different.

Not sure what you think Unsworths gonna do? Probably a good 85% of the players are foreign and won't be arsed if Unsworth used to play.
Proper baffles me this shout
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Chris1878 on October 15, 2017, 11:26:14 PM
Koeman must stay, apart from ancellotti who else do u all want?  The board took too long getting gigy deal done that didnt get a striker. Keep the faith we will come good
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TheRam on October 15, 2017, 11:29:10 PM
Not sure what you think Unsworths gonna do? Probably a good 85% of the players are foreign and won't be arsed if Unsworth used to play.
Proper baffles me this shout

Think he'll just lift the mood around the place to give us that short term new manager bounce.

Something that's much needed to try and salvage this season.

I'd like someone else in long term, but for the short term I think unsworth can revitalise this squad and add some much needed energy and positivity.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Silas on October 15, 2017, 11:34:39 PM
Unsworth while we are sorting a quality replacement would be fine. He's no long term solution though. At least not right now. He's excelling in his current role, ideally he should keep doing it
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 15, 2017, 11:34:59 PM
Not sure what you think Unsworths gonna do? Probably a good 85% of the players are foreign and won't be arsed if Unsworth used to play.
Proper baffles me this shout

If you read the article by Unsi re: the U23's against City he was positive, praised the effort and stated nobody hides in his team and they play as a team. They work on a plan for the game and execute it. High tempo passing and play for each other.... you could feel his passion. Whether they're foreign or not, they're Everton players and he won't forget to remind them of that and he'll bring his best youth through if he thinks they're ready. I'd have that over what we have now from a former Legend who is distant, emotionless and doesn't know what his team is and how to play them. Could it get worse?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 15, 2017, 11:36:08 PM
If you read the article by Unsi re: the U23's against City he was positive, praised the effort and stated nobody hides in his team and they play as a team. They work on a plan for the game and execute it. High tempo passing and play for each other.... you could feel his passion. Whether they're foreign or not, they're Everton players and he won't forget to remind them of that and he'll bring his best youth through if he thinks they're ready. I'd have that over what we have now from a former Legend who is distant, emotionless and doesn't know what his team is and how to play them. Could it get worse?

good job that David Henen fella and that Oumar Niasse lad are English or they'd never have bought into the Under 23 ethos would they?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Silas on October 15, 2017, 11:37:53 PM
David Henens continued existence as an Everton players is rivalling Junior's
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Ross on October 15, 2017, 11:46:52 PM
Iím not against Unsworth getting the job but Iíd hope weíd also be considering other options as well.

Discussions and ideas should really have already started at boardroom level about this. At least youíd hope they have.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TheTone on October 15, 2017, 11:48:38 PM
we have some massive useless cunts playing for us too though to be fair, bottling cunts, fucking well shit some of them
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Realist on October 15, 2017, 11:50:45 PM
good job that David Henen fella and that Oumar Niasse lad are English or they'd never have bought into the Under 23 ethos would they?

Bit of a hard one really as the U23's are playing with the intention of making the first team, the first team aren't
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Silas on October 15, 2017, 11:58:53 PM
we have some massive useless cunts playing for us too though to be fair, bottling cunts, fucking well shit some of them

Do we or do we have players who don't want to play for their Manager? I don't think players intentionally try and lose often but I do think sometimes they don't go all out to win in the hope that there is a change. Established players like Baines for example will definitely have some sway at the club.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 15, 2017, 11:58:56 PM
Is it as bad as Martinez yet, must be fairly close now
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Silas on October 16, 2017, 12:00:44 AM
Is it as bad as Martinez yet, must be fairly close now

The performances of late definitely are. More worryingly Koeman is making poor changes as well, something I thought he was good at. I praised his game management initially but I think I got that wrong about him.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TheTone on October 16, 2017, 12:04:24 AM
Do we or do we have players who don't want to play for their Manager? I don't think players intentionally try and lose often but I do think sometimes they don't go all out to win in the hope that there is a change. Established players like Baines for example will definitely have some sway at the club.

I used to play at a decent amateur level years ago and I really didnt give a shit who the manager was, we had some sound lads and some right cunts managing us, at the end of the day I always tried my best, I think a lot of our players don't give their all , it's proper shithouse behaviour and they know it's the manager who ultimately will get the chop
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Tinga on October 16, 2017, 12:05:44 AM
I just wish he'd go now. How can we have ambitions of being this big club, this 'awakening giant' when the board can't see or won't see that he's bringing us down to Martinez levels of ineptitude. We're going backwards and that means we won't keep the players we are looking forward to seeing grow with the club at the new stadium.

If I was a player playing for Everton now, I wouldn't want to be here because our ambition isn't going to meet theirs.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 12:17:31 AM
I do think itís symptomatic of the modern game though.
Years ago players were playing for their livelihood and to pay the bills, now they need to find a reason inside of themselves to bust a gut for the job.

The role of a manager now outside of the top 6 needs to be more about man management than anything else. How else do you continually motivate a group of millionaires to run through brick walls for you with, no real chance of winning anything at the end of it. Itís probably why you see the constant churn of management now more than ever and accusations of players downing tools. Ours are no different really.

Of course it helps if your manager sets up the side properly and doesnít alienate a proportion of them or slate them all in public either.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 16, 2017, 01:02:09 AM
Do we or do we have players who don't want to play for their Manager? I don't think players intentionally try and lose often but I do think sometimes they don't go all out to win in the hope that there is a change. Established players like Baines for example will definitely have some sway at the club.

Either scenario makes them cunts.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: everton1952 on October 16, 2017, 01:51:17 AM
The lynching mob are gathering. Never  a pleasant sight to see. Mind you, neither are Everton at the minute. Two good results might turn the corner, but not for some. They have nailed their man and are waiting to hail their  successor until he falls short.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 02:04:51 AM
Timing really is crucial with this one.

We definitely left it too late with Martinez (not gonna lie I was quite gutted it didn't work out for him), as we essentially lost our best players because of our poor league performances and not challenging for top 4, silverware etc.

However, I'm not sure we risk losing anyone that important if we have a poor season this season, and I doubt we will get relegated, so there's a bit of me that thinks he actually deserves time to get it right. On the other hand there's enough time to get our season back on track if we sack him now and recruit a new manager.

I'm glad I'm not the decision maker.

I do quite like the idea if Unsworth taking the reigns with Dunc as assistant though.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 16, 2017, 02:07:46 AM
He's Bumbbled into Haplesness.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 16, 2017, 02:09:23 AM
The lynching mob are gathering. Never  a pleasant sight to see. Mind you, neither are Everton at the minute. Two good results might turn the corner, but not for some. They have nailed their man and are waiting to hail their  successor until he falls short.
Plenty didn't Hail him at the start to be fair.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: everton1952 on October 16, 2017, 02:12:05 AM
Plenty didn't Hail him at the start to be fair.
Really? To be fair, apart from the liars who were among the plenty?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 02:17:07 AM
Really? To be fair, apart from the liars who were among the plenty?

I was amongst a few that was underwhelmed with the appointment, but happy to see where it went.

@Simon Paul (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1) and a few others didn't really take to him from the off. The main argument seemed to be that 'he doesn't get us' and he didn't fit the mould of what an Everton manager should be (I think).
I didn't really think that was important at the time, however now I can see that it's quite important. The fans clearly can't connect with him and the players won't play for him, its a slippery slope I think.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: everton1952 on October 16, 2017, 02:19:54 AM
So the "plenty" have shrunk to the "few"? Make your mind up. Is Simon Paul the Oracle or just another fan?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 02:22:02 AM
So the "plenty" have shrunk to the "few"? Make your mind up. Is Simon Paul the Oracle or just another fan?

I didn't say plenty at first you tool. It was someone else you replied to.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 02:28:17 AM
So the "plenty" have shrunk to the "few"? Make your mind up. Is Simon Paul the Oracle or just another fan?

I don't get why some people perceive this as a moral issue, like we are somehow immoral heathens because we want a change of manager. He's had plenty of time, is one of the best paid managers in world football, and things are gradually dismantling and getting worse. If we were playing well, but the results weren't coming or if there was some sense of direction and gradual improvement, people would be willing to give him more time, but what's the point when it's clearly getting worse.

It's a question of performance and underachievement, not morality, so give it a rest with all the high horse bullshit about 'the baying mob'. We're generally patient, knowledgeable fans but we also know when things have gone to shit and there's nothing wrong with stating that early, and saving ourselves another half season of this utter garbage.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: everton1952 on October 16, 2017, 02:29:23 AM
The tool says OK. But the current totally negative self defeating attitude is getting me down. Everton are bad enough. I don't want the team he picks to take the field on Thursday to a shower of boos which probably would happen if some on here were in the majority.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 02:33:54 AM
I was amongst a few that was underwhelmed with the appointment, but happy to see where it went.

@Simon Paul (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1) and a few others didn't really take to him from the off. The main argument seemed to be that 'he doesn't get us' and he didn't fit the mould of what an Everton manager should be (I think).
I didn't really think that was important at the time, however now I can see that it's quite important. The fans clearly can't connect with him and the players won't play for him, its a slippery slope I think.

it's not important at all if he's winning trophies

that supersedes everything

it would help him borrow a bit more time though when things are going badly
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 16, 2017, 02:37:13 AM
I don't think the players won't play for him, some are not good enough, some are getting on in years nearly all of them look confused as to how they are supposed to be playing as regards some sort of system, that's down to Koeman for me, you can't blame players for not being good enough or finished that's the management/boards bag.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 16, 2017, 02:39:31 AM
Players have binned it.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: everton1952 on October 16, 2017, 02:41:27 AM
But we are not and have never been for many years a team which wins trophies. Apart from Leicester the big boys win the most domestic trophies and they always will because they have most of the best players. We could conceivably emulate Spurs, and arrive in the top 4 (no trophies though) but  that would take years and years. The kraut next door is being hung up to dry because they have not won trophies. I would settle for the football the shite play but without any trophies.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 02:50:13 AM
But we are not and have never been for many years a team which wins trophies. Apart from Leicester the big boys win the most domestic trophies and they always will because they have most of the best players. We could conceivably emulate Spurs, and arrive in the top 4 (no trophies though) but  that would take years and years. The kraut next door is being hung up to dry because they have not won trophies. I would settle for the football the shite play but without any trophies.

they're all bluster though and if teams don't crap it when they get run at then Liverpool fail.  If a team then goes on to actually have the audacity to attack Liverpool then they fall apart.

they get by because some teams (like we will) absolutely cack it and get over run.

with the money he had (or Walsh, whoever we are told does the transfers) then we should have done better this summer, which in turn should have pushed us into a place where winning the League Cup or the Europa League shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility.  If we believe he was let down with his targets then he should have named back ups.  We spent too long (and too much) on Sigurdsson, who we are to believe was his main target, and we spent too much on Klaassen who was one of his priorities too.  £70m on those two which could have been much better spent.  He named the targets, we got them - eventually.

the winning trophies thing wasn't the only thing that would make his utter distain for supporters palatable though.  "progress" might actually win him a few friends.  Hell, it might even shut whingers like me up for a bit.  But we've regressed under Koeman.  We won't finish top half if he is still manager in May, and then he'll leave anyway.  Cut the rope now and we have a chance.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: charlatan on October 16, 2017, 02:58:21 AM
Has he gone yet?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 03:03:26 AM
they're all bluster though and if teams don't crap it when they get run at then Liverpool fail.  If a team then goes on to actually have the audacity to attack Liverpool then they fall apart.

they get by because some teams (like we will) absolutely cack it and get over run.

with the money he had (or Walsh, whoever we are told does the transfers) then we should have done better this summer, which in turn should have pushed us into a place where winning the League Cup or the Europa League shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility.  If we believe he was let down with his targets then he should have named back ups.  We spent too long (and too much) on Sigurdsson, who we are to believe was his main target, and we spent too much on Klaassen who was one of his priorities too.  £70m on those two which could have been much better spent.  He named the targets, we got them - eventually.

the winning trophies thing wasn't the only thing that would make his utter distain for supporters palatable though.  "progress" might actually win him a few friends.  Hell, it might even shut whingers like me up for a bit.  But we've regressed under Koeman.  We won't finish top half if he is still manager in May, and then he'll leave anyway.  Cut the rope now and we have a chance.

I noticed you never responded to the Koeman drinking thing.  You think that's OK?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 03:07:27 AM
I noticed you never responded to the Koeman drinking thing.  You think that's OK?

not while he's in work, no
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 03:09:09 AM
not while he's in work, no

Right so he drinks at work and gets drunk then?  Is that right?  This will help sway my opinion of him you see.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: charlatan on October 16, 2017, 03:10:44 AM
not while he's in work, no

Whats the story here Si?  Missed this one
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 03:11:15 AM
Right so he drinks at work and gets drunk then?  Is that right?  This will help sway my opinion of him you see.

I've never seen it happen, but I have heard stories. 

I don't particularly believe them, but it's something that people throw around about him.

It's up to you whether or not you believe them, the same as it's up to you if you believe that he rarely stays around at Finch Farm or that he books his holidays whilst on the work's computer.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 16, 2017, 03:14:03 AM
Iv'e something in common with Koeman then, iv'e drunk much more since he's been here as well.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 03:21:46 AM
I've never seen it happen, but I have heard stories. 

I don't particularly believe them, but it's something that people throw around about him.

It's up to you whether or not you believe them, the same as it's up to you if you believe that he rarely stays around at Finch Farm or that he books his holidays whilst on the work's computer.

And how would you feel if people idly gossiped about you or your family or friends 'maybe' having a drinking problem? Even if it were true then alcoholism is a disease, not some piece of maybe-trivia there to be used as a point-scorer by random on an internet forum.  Oh wait, let me pre-empt - don't shoot the messenger?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: arteta4spain on October 16, 2017, 03:23:50 AM
The vultures are circling;

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/koeman-sacked-next-everton-manager-11347614.amp.

Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 03:25:55 AM
The vultures are circling;

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/koeman-sacked-next-everton-manager-11347614.amp.


Laurent Blanc?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: arteta4spain on October 16, 2017, 03:32:57 AM
Laurent Blanc?
Some interesting names. It's only a matter of time now that the media are pushing him out the door for us.
No mention of Tuchel. Has he been lined up for somewhere already? Not that we'd prob get him. Luis Enrique? Haha imagine!
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 03:36:46 AM
Mad that I think Dyche would be great for us.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 03:40:40 AM
Mad that I think Dyche would be great for us.

Not necessarily. He's demonstrated competence and commitment to building something over a sustained period of time. Wouldn't get me massively excited, but there's a lot worse candidates.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 16, 2017, 03:42:58 AM
Not necessarily. He's demonstrated competence and commitment to building something over a sustained period of time. Wouldn't get me massively excited, but there's a lot worse candidates.
I like dyche but is he tactically good enough for a side that has to attack at home

He's done a boss job tho
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Brownie20 on October 16, 2017, 03:43:01 AM
Dyche  would be interesting.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 03:46:10 AM
Clearly no one gives a shit. Must be fair game then.  As you were.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 03:47:13 AM
I like dyche but is he tactically good enough for a side that has to attack at home

He's done a boss job tho

I suppose that would be the challenge for him to play more front foot football. It'd be hard to know really, until he was in that position.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 16, 2017, 03:49:46 AM
Dyche was favourite with sky bet 15/8 before Burnley game, he could bring Ben Mee with him if he wants.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 03:50:31 AM
I felt like somone in denial, finally coming out and admitting I'd quite like Dyche as manager just then.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 16, 2017, 03:51:33 AM
I suppose that would be the challenge for him to play more front foot football. It'd be hard to know really, until he was in that position.
Agreed pal. It all feels a little moyes ish but let's not forget he took the club forward.... Then held on for too long... anyway, for me, I'd like a stronger, bigger name
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 16, 2017, 03:54:13 AM
He won't be sacked, the board havent got the balls to do it, so we will carry on being shit for the foreseeable
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 16, 2017, 04:04:51 AM
He won't be sacked, the board havent got the balls to do it, so we will carry on being shit for the foreseeable
Hope your wrong but don't think you are.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 16, 2017, 04:07:02 AM
Some interesting names. It's only a matter of time now that the media are pushing him out the door for us.
No mention of Tuchel. Has he been lined up for somewhere already? Not that we'd prob get him. Luis Enrique? Haha imagine!

No; the journalist was in a hurry and didn't manage to pick that particular name out of the air.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 16, 2017, 04:08:55 AM
Hope your wrong but don't think you are.

Im wrong 99% of the time

<insert dumb and dumber gif here >
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Cuttyblue on October 16, 2017, 04:14:16 AM
Not sure what you think Unsworths gonna do? Probably a good 85% of the players are foreign and won't be arsed if Unsworth used to play.
Proper baffles me this shout

Because unlike Martinez and Koeman, he will not have them pretending to be Barcelona.  He'll make them get it forward quickly.

i think we've figured out that style of play doesn't matter when you're a loser, x2 managers
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: arteta4spain on October 16, 2017, 05:16:52 AM
No; the journalist was in a hurry and didn't manage to pick that particular name out of the air.
Well there's Luis Enrique that seems a bit picked out of thin air so why not Tuchel? I know we're probably not in an attractive position like but maybe someone whos got a great pedigree will want to take us on.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueMaquis on October 16, 2017, 06:34:27 AM
It'd be interesting to see a poll on who most of us would prefer between Koeman and Martinez right now. At this stage for me, it's Martinez, and I couldn't stand the guy.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: bacon sarnie on October 16, 2017, 06:38:25 AM
Moyes could do the job for the rest of the season at least he'd keep us up.

Only messin'....fucksakes!
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: American Evertonian on October 16, 2017, 07:05:52 AM
Well there's Luis Enrique that seems a bit picked out of thin air so why not Tuchel? I know we're probably not in an attractive position like but maybe someone whos got a great pedigree will want to take us on.

If we could get either of those managers I would be okay with sacking Koeman. Tuchel I think would be great for us. Plus would add more fuel to the Everton - Liverpool rivalry.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Hawkandro on October 16, 2017, 02:18:04 PM
We get rid before Thursday, we have a chance of saving our season.

If we don't, we will be out of Europe and the Carabao Cup and will probably end up scraping into 12th or 13th.

Sadly, knowing what happened with Martinez, I know which option is most likely.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 02:25:51 PM
I don't want Koeman gone but if the likes of Tuchel, Ancelotti etc are even remotely available/viable then that changes things a little.  I don't know if they are though.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 16, 2017, 02:28:11 PM
One would hope Moshiri has already made some discreet enquiries about Ancelotti's availability
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TheRam on October 16, 2017, 02:30:09 PM
Telling yer lads.

You don't want anchelotti here. It would be a mess.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 16, 2017, 02:36:57 PM
Telling yer lads.

You don't want anchelotti here. It would be a mess.


I said this to a few mates in the boozer yesterday, it would be nice to able to attract someone like him but he would be on a hiding to nothing and would be off the second things started getting tough, or if one of the bigger boys came in for him
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 02:41:26 PM
I suppose that would be the challenge for him to play more front foot football. It'd be hard to know really, until he was in that position.

He did win the championship a couple of times to get Burnley back up so heís fashioned teams that can win games regularly.

I think heís got a bit more about him than the Moyes shouts myself, he never seems to have an inferiority complex for one.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: School of Science on October 16, 2017, 02:57:40 PM
Im wrong 99% of the time

<insert dumb and dumber gif here >

You sound as if your married mate !
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: School of Science on October 16, 2017, 02:58:44 PM
Telling yer lads.

You don't want anchelotti here. It would be a mess.


Probably better than the mesh were in now.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 16, 2017, 03:01:11 PM
You sound as if your married mate !

I was, got that wrong as well
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Big Nev on October 16, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
Don't know if it's been said before, but Moshiri won't get rid until he's got a replacement lined up.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 03:30:24 PM
I'm genuinely not sure that a 'big name' replacement will work. Koeman is one of the biggest names in football, and it's gone tits up.
I think Tuchel is out of the question, he's got Chelsea written all over him when Conte gets binned just after Xmas.
I still think someone who has a link to the club and the players will be a much better option. They're not exciting names but Arteta, Unsworth, Ferguson, Stubbs, Royle could give us that stability back, even if it's just on an interim basis until the Xmas or the end of the season.

If not them then Dyche, maybe Howe or even Allardyce! (I can't belive ive just said fuckin Allardyce)



Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 03:34:37 PM
I'm genuinely not sure that a 'big name' replacement will work. Koeman is one of the biggest names in football, and it's gone tits up.
I think Tuchel is out of the question, he's got Chelsea written all over him when Conte gets binned just after Xmas.
I still think someone who has a link to the club and the players will be a much better option. They're not exciting names but Arteta, Unsworth, Ferguson, Stubbs, Royle could give us that stability back, even if it's just on an interim basis until the Xmas or the end of the season.

If not them then Dyche, maybe Howe or even Allardyce! (I can't belive ive just said fuckin Allardyce)





I like Sean Dyche.


There, Iíve said it.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 03:36:58 PM
I'm genuinely not sure that a 'big name' replacement will work. Koeman is one of the biggest names in football, and it's gone tits up.
I think Tuchel is out of the question, he's got Chelsea written all over him when Conte gets binned just after Xmas.
I still think someone who has a link to the club and the players will be a much better option. They're not exciting names but Arteta, Unsworth, Ferguson, Stubbs, Royle could give us that stability back, even if it's just on an interim basis until the Xmas or the end of the season.

If not them then Dyche, maybe Howe or even Allardyce! (I can't belive ive just said fuckin Allardyce)





Yeah I was happy to get partially on board with your Dyche shout, but Allardyce can get fucked.

Ps Koeman is a massive name as a player, not managerially. He's pretty much a journeyman manager who's had a couple of decent spells, and a few shite ones.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 03:51:56 PM
Yeah I was happy to get partially on board with your Dyche shout, but Allardyce can get fucked.

Ps Koeman is a massive name as a player, not managerially. He's pretty much a journeyman manager who's had a couple of decent spells, and a few shite ones.

I know I can't believe it myself ha. I think it's because if we didnt nick that point yesterday and Leicester win tonight, then we'd be in the relegation zone. The games we've got coming are pretty shit, and we're only 8 or 9 weeks away from Xmas. If we're still there by the end of November then we're in a relegation scrap.

I suppose Tuchel hasn't actually won a thing though, whereas Koeman has.
I kind of just want him gone now, even if we haven't got a replacement identified yet.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: pjk on October 16, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
Wrong thread ;D
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 04:33:10 PM
David Henens continued existence as an Everton players is rivalling Junior's

On fire this year in the U23s like.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 04:34:51 PM
What's the obsession with a link to the club about?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 04:43:25 PM
What's the obsession with a link to the club about?

About nsno?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: hill135 on October 16, 2017, 04:53:11 PM
Nah fuck Dyche. He's alright but he's taken a team which is just about good enough to stay in the league to just about staying in the league. Par for the course and hardly a miracle worker. And he plays one style of football which, while effective for an unfancied side, is horrible to watch and won't work with a team with greater ambitions.

Gotta be much more imaginative than this if we're going to crash the top six.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueNoseMike on October 16, 2017, 05:01:46 PM
Picture doing the rounds that he has the 2nd worst away record in Everton history when looking at the league


Martinez has the 2nd best  :bonk:


In all seriousness though a spirited performance and positive result turned our season around last year after a longer spell than this of absolute dross. Who knows what might happen next Sunday, follow Troy Deeney's lead and get in their faces. That said there doesn't seem to be any urgency to do that anyway
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: gwells on October 16, 2017, 05:16:38 PM
I just do not understand his lack of a plausible game plan? No davies, no width,playing DCL out of position so that he can include Rooney in the team. Why Gueye and the useless Schneiderlin in the ream together? Lots of calls for big named mangers but I think Unsay and Dunc will turn it around.The U23's beat Citeh away 3-0 the richest club and Academy in the league. U23's 6 wins in a row despite losing some experienced players out on loan. RK needs to take a look at Unsay's game plan. Depressing really...........
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 05:23:49 PM
On the basis that something must change for things to improve he has to go purely on that rationale. The players look unmotivated, the shape is anyone's guess, their is no passion, no spark, nothing which might give you an indication that things just need a break and then we'd be up and running.

Steve Walsh deserves a rap across the knuckles for allowing us to go into a new season without a recognised senior striker at the club and only one left back but we need a change so it has to be bye bye Koeman.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 16, 2017, 05:38:37 PM
Picture doing the rounds that he has the 2nd worst away record in Everton history when looking at the league


Martinez has the 2nd best  :bonk:


In all seriousness though a spirited performance and positive result turned our season around last year after a longer spell than this of absolute dross. Who knows what might happen next Sunday, follow Troy Deeney's lead and get in their faces. That said there doesn't seem to be any urgency to do that anyway

The big difference between us an Watford is:

They have 3 decent strikers

We have 0.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 05:43:18 PM
The big difference between us an Watford is:

They have 3 decent strikers

We have 0.

Their manager looks like he's pretty decent too. I don't think we can put their appearance in the top 4 solely down to Troy Deeney and some unproven Brazilian lad.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 16, 2017, 05:45:03 PM
The big difference between us an Watford is:

They have 3 decent strikers

We have 0.

Marco Silva is sex on legs
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: hill135 on October 16, 2017, 05:55:15 PM
Big Marco is well good and he should be near the top of any list of candidates. But is it realistic? Not saying he wouldn't want the job ordinarily but leaving a few months after signing on looks a bit bad.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 16, 2017, 06:00:39 PM
Marco Silva is sex on legs

He does always look like he's just got in from a heavy night at the casino like.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 06:04:38 PM
What's the obsession with a link to the club about?

Near enough every single success we've had in the last 30 - 40 years (and probably longer)  had been with a manaher who has a link to the club. Can't be the worst idea to see how it goes on an interim basis.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 06:23:39 PM
Near enough every single success we've had in the last 30 - 40 years (and probably longer)  had been with a manaher who has a link to the club. Can't be the worst idea to see how it goes on an interim basis.

We've not got a great deal to go off have we? Sounds more like sentimental coincidence to me tbh.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 06:28:05 PM
Near enough every single success we've had in the last 30 - 40 years (and probably longer)  had been with a manaher who has a link to the club. Can't be the worst idea to see how it goes on an interim basis.

yes but their link to the club was winning things as a player and being exceptional at Everton
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Toddacelli on October 16, 2017, 06:52:14 PM
I understand the Unsworth shouts now. I would have told you to fuck off if you'd suggested it in the summer though.

The big thing for me though, is that Unsworth seems to be massively successful in the U23's role at the moment which is invaluable to a club like us who don't have money to burn. I'd be really worried about removing him from the U23's and would be very concerned about the next appointment for that area.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 07:09:08 PM
Sounds like a good way to tank unsworths burgeoning reputation
Title: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 16, 2017, 07:12:43 PM
Under Moyes we basically never had a right winger. Except Landon Donovan for a few weeks for a couple of years. We did OK. We often played with Osman out there or Arteta, and Pienaar was hardly a flyer. That said I would like to see us try to pay narrow in a 4-4-1-1 with a midfield of Klassen, gana, Schneiderlein and Davies. Then Sigurdsson in the 10 with anyone up front. Or maybe Sigurdsson as one of the two central midfielders with two strikers to look for.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 16, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
Under Moyes we basically never had a right winger. Except Landon Donovan for a few weeks for a couple of years. We did OK. We often played with Osman out there or Arteta, and Pienaar was hardly a flyer. That said I would like to see us try to pay narrow in a 4-4-1-1 with a midfield of Klassen, gana, Schneiderlein and Davies. Then Sigurdsson in the 10 with anyone up front. Or maybe Sigurdsson as one of the two central midfielders with two strikers to look for.

Andy Johnson says hi
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 16, 2017, 08:28:44 PM
Under Moyes we basically never had a right winger. Except Landon Donovan for a few weeks for a couple of years. We did OK. We often played with Osman out there or Arteta, and Pienaar was hardly a flyer. That said I would like to see us try to pay narrow in a 4-4-1-1 with a midfield of Klassen, gana, Schneiderlein and Davies. Then Sigurdsson in the 10 with anyone up front. Or maybe Sigurdsson as one of the two central midfielders with two strikers to look for.
Osaman, Pienaar and Arteta didn't need pace to beat a man, they could play wide and still influence the game
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 16, 2017, 08:56:40 PM
yes but their link to the club was winning things as a player and being exceptional at Everton

Ye I can see that with Royle and Kendall (although Kendall didnt win much with us as a player)

Catterick didn't win anything as a player.

I just think for the past 2 managers have been picked because of their relative success in England or abroad. (RM even said he got the job based alot on his FA Cup win).
Maybe a change of direction is what's needed.

Keeping Koeman whilst we wait to have a replacement lined up may be more detrimental than just getting rid of him now and sticking one of the other guys in on an interim until we find a replacement.
I just can't see how keeping him at the helm will benefit us at all.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TrevorSteven on October 16, 2017, 09:08:33 PM
I know I can't believe it myself ha. I think it's because if we didnt nick that point yesterday and Leicester win tonight, then we'd be in the relegation zone. The games we've got coming are pretty shit, and we're only 8 or 9 weeks away from Xmas. If we're still there by the end of November then we're in a relegation scrap.

I suppose Tuchel hasn't actually won a thing though, whereas Koeman has.
I kind of just want him gone now, even if we haven't got a replacement identified yet.

We wont get Tuchel. Why? Because he is to good of a name.

He actually has a philosophy - Koeman doesnt. He has discipline.

Throw out Walsh at the same time.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 16, 2017, 09:16:00 PM
We wont get Tuchel. Why? Because he is to good of a name.

He actually has a philosophy - Koeman doesnt. He has discipline.

Throw out Walsh at the same time.

They said on I think guardian or ac jimbo pod that he's turned down jobs 'below the top 6' and sees himself ready for a crack with a top club in England apparently.

Worth sounding out but I think we're out of luck there.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 16, 2017, 09:42:07 PM
2020 onwards: With a new ground, big money to spend, the big time beckons for a brand new ambitious era  - Simeone

2019: Koeman's contract expires and so does Silva's - neat and tidy; no compensation

2018: Rodgers is on a one year rolling contract - 45, with unfinished business on Merseyside and has never lost a derby

2017: Random instant replacement: Heimir Hallgrimsson - would at least keep our record signing happy

Dyche and Howe will gain a few shouts - understandable

Ex Everton players: Hughes always seems to do a good job and Bilic is a decent manager

From within the club: Unsworth, Ferguson and Ebbrell - all ex team-mates







Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: sirblue57 on October 16, 2017, 10:10:02 PM
I am absolutely dumbfounded by our supporters, our club has been in the doldrums for years, a few bright moments, mostly under DM and one with RM since or last trophy. criminally run from the top , and the fans still turn up in numbers, home and away. an what do they get?
a chairman spouting either platitudes or anecdotes, players without a winning mentality or passion, one manager who was deluded beyond belief, and now one who seems to think that we should be happy with a fucking point at Brighton.

and some of us want him given more time...well fuck you, I an fortunate enough to have seen Everton successful, firstly with Moores as chairman and Catterick, and if he didn't deliver he would have gone. the phrase "taxi for.." was synonymous with us for a reason.

we have been starved of success, of style, of hope for to long. if our chairman cannot see this and be strong and decisive, maybe he is not the man we thought he was. it's about time we had a ruthless streak at this club, we have been to nice for to long.

it's not merely demanding success, we need to see actual ambition and progress. nothing like this is coming from Koeman.

time for change.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: arteta4spain on October 16, 2017, 10:25:41 PM
I am absolutely dumbfounded by our supporters, our club has been in the doldrums for years, a few bright moments, mostly under DM and one with RM since or last trophy. criminally run from the top , and the fans still turn up in numbers, home and away. an what do they get?
a chairman spouting either platitudes or anecdotes, players without a winning mentality or passion, one manager who was deluded beyond belief, and now one who seems to think that we should be happy with a fucking point at Brighton.

and some of us want him given more time...well fuck you, I an fortunate enough to have seen Everton successful, firstly with Moores as chairman and Catterick, and if he didn't deliver he would have gone. the phrase "taxi for.." was synonymous with us for a reason.

we have been starved of success, of style, of hope for to long. if our chairman cannot see this and be strong and decisive, maybe he is not the man we thought he was. it's about time we had a ruthless streak at this club, we have been to nice for to long.

it's not merely demanding success, we need to see actual ambition and progress. nothing like this is coming from Koeman.

time for change.
Become a billionaire and take over. Haha in all seriousness. Our away record was shocking last season and we're not exactly making Goodison a fortress. I've said it before, Moshiri needs to be increasing expectations and laying them at Koemans door, and asking wtf is going on.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 16, 2017, 10:32:27 PM
Become a billionaire and take over. Haha in all seriousness. Our away record was shocking last season and we're not exactly making Goodison a fortress. I've said it before, Moshiri needs to be increasing expectations and laying them at Koemans door, and asking wtf is going on.
Moshiri may well be in this to plump up the value of his shares,we dont know how long he,s in it for but a new stadium and 50 thousand fans every other week will bring him handsome dividends on his outlay.Even finishing 7th for the next few seasons wont degrade our price,till the next chancer tips up and trys to turn our dreams into reality.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: everton1952 on October 16, 2017, 10:34:35 PM
I am absolutely dumbfounded by our supporters, our club has been in the doldrums for years, a few bright moments, mostly under DM and one with RM since or last trophy. criminally run from the top , and the fans still turn up in numbers, home and away. an what do they get?
a chairman spouting either platitudes or anecdotes, players without a winning mentality or passion, one manager who was deluded beyond belief, and now one who seems to think that we should be happy with a fucking point at Brighton.

and some of us want him given more time...well fuck you, I an fortunate enough to have seen Everton successful, firstly with Moores as chairman and Catterick, and if he didn't deliver he would have gone. the phrase "taxi for.." was synonymous with us for a reason.

we have been starved of success, of style, of hope for to long. if our chairman cannot see this and be strong and decisive, maybe he is not the man we thought he was. it's about time we had a ruthless streak at this club, we have been to nice for to long.

it's not merely demanding success, we need to see actual ambition and progress. nothing like this is coming from Koeman.

time for change.
I too enjoyed the Moores era but don't really want to be told "fuck you". I share the pain though.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: sirblue57 on October 16, 2017, 10:38:23 PM
I too enjoyed the Moores era but don't really want to be told "fuck you". I share the pain though.

the "fuck you" is to waiting to long to make change, we made that mistake with DM, who i thought did ok for a while with very little,and RM who did fuck all with more. for once, PLEASE. lets get it right, be ruthless, be demanding. send a fucking message,  WE WANT WINNERS ONLY.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 16, 2017, 10:48:24 PM
2020 onwards: With a new ground, big money to spend, the big time beckons for a brand new ambitious era  - Simeone

2019: Koeman's contract expires and so does Silva's - neat and tidy; no compensation

2018: Rodgers is on a one year rolling contract - 45, with unfinished business on Merseyside and has never lost a derby

2017: Random instant replacement: Heimir Hallgrimsson - would at least keep our record signing happy

Dyche and Howe will gain a few shouts - understandable

Ex Everton players: Hughes always seems to do a good job and Bilic is a decent manager

From within the club: Unsworth, Ferguson and Ebbrell - all ex team-mates









Two comments on this post. Firstly, it's absolutely mental and what on earth are you on about? And secondly, there's a disappointing lack of shit puns.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Major Clanger on October 16, 2017, 11:00:25 PM
Become a billionaire and take over. Haha in all seriousness. Our away record was shocking last season and we're not exactly making Goodison a fortress. I've said it before, Moshiri needs to be increasing expectations and laying them at Koemans door, and asking wtf is going on.

"I expect you to hand in your resignation, Ron. Now."
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Coyb12 on October 16, 2017, 11:14:36 PM
2020 onwards: With a new ground, big money to spend, the big time beckons for a brand new ambitious era  - Simeone

2019: Koeman's contract expires and so does Silva's - neat and tidy; no compensation

2018: Rodgers is on a one year rolling contract - 45, with unfinished business on Merseyside and has never lost a derby

2017: Random instant replacement: Heimir Hallgrimsson - would at least keep our record signing happy

Dyche and Howe will gain a few shouts - understandable

Ex Everton players: Hughes always seems to do a good job and Bilic is a decent manager

From within the club: Unsworth, Ferguson and Ebbrell - all ex team-mates
Put the pipe down mate.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 16, 2017, 11:20:20 PM
What on earth am I on about? At some point between now and 2019, Koeman will be relieved of his duties. Depending on when he departs, take your pick as successor. What is mental about it?

I have already been cautioned about shit puns and I don't intend to be sent off - I shall leave on my own terms!

I trust the Iceland manager's wisdom won't give you tooth ache

Up yours and smoke it
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: arteta4spain on October 17, 2017, 12:14:13 AM
"I expect you to hand in your resignation, Ron. Now."
Haha if only!
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 17, 2017, 12:18:12 AM
Osaman, Pienaar and Arteta didn't need pace to beat a man, they could play wide and still influence the game

Yes that's what I mean. I think Davies and Klaasen could do that now.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 17, 2017, 12:19:11 AM
Andy Johnson says hi

I don't recall him playing right wing at all. Bit worrying
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 17, 2017, 12:22:15 AM
Yes that's what I mean. I think Davies and Klaasen could do that now.
Ah I see
I have my doubts tho
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 17, 2017, 12:25:08 AM
I don't recall him playing right wing at all. Bit worrying
He ran the channels but I don't recall it either
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 17, 2017, 12:26:50 AM
He ran the channels but I don't recall it either

played there for England while he was with us.  the reason given was that he played on the right for Everton more often than not.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 17, 2017, 12:32:22 AM
played there for England while he was with us.  the reason given was that he played on the right for Everton more often than not.
We didn't set up as that tho, he just drifted that way I think, my memories shot tho
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 17, 2017, 12:39:39 AM
We didn't set up as that tho, he just drifted that way I think, my memories shot tho

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/sep/20/fulham.premierleague

"The problem came down to wanting to play in my best position and the fact I was either out of the team or stuck on the right wing, in a position I didn't like."
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 17, 2017, 12:44:34 AM
This will be the time where we'll find out if Moshiri is just in this to take us to our post-stadium near future which will hopefully give him a rather nice return on his investment or if he is genuinely ambitious. Whenever he opens his mouth I must admit I'm dubious as he seems to say the all the wrong things when he talks about football but what he's doing on the business side looks promising.

Does he cut his losses on about £10m and wave goodbye to Koeman in order to hopefully move forward quickly on the pitch or does he try and ride it out until it gets to the point of no return.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 17, 2017, 12:47:41 AM
Yes that's what I mean. I think Davies and Klaasen could do that now.

Either way - our options out width are shit. Why would Koeman, who had so much success with Mane, decide he didnít want a strong, pacey, wide forward? Maybe Walsh just didnít get him one or it was supposed to be Sandro?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 17, 2017, 12:51:07 AM
This will be the time where we'll find out if Moshiri is just in this to take us to our post-stadium near future which will hopefully give him a rather nice return on his investment or if he is genuinely ambitious. Whenever he opens his mouth I must admit I'm dubious as he seems to say the all the wrong things when he talks about football but what he's doing on the business side looks promising.

Does he cut his losses on about £10m and wave goodbye to Koeman in order to hopefully move forward quickly on the pitch or does he try and ride it out until it gets to the point of no return.

Does Walsh have any say in this? In other countries the DoF does the hiring and firing. Or is he just a glorified chief scout?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Simon Paul on October 17, 2017, 01:01:23 AM
Does Walsh have any say in this? In other countries the DoF does the hiring and firing. Or is he just a glorified chief scout?

glorified chief scout

not even that glorified, what with some at the club - at board level - referring to him as being "like an old woman"
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: boothill on October 17, 2017, 01:14:23 AM
Laurent Blanc?
larry white
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: blue slug on October 17, 2017, 01:22:47 AM
Koeman has got to go or we will be in a relegation battle I really believe that, i don't think he can reverse this negativety and lack of confidence as I think he's lost the dressing room, I know a lot of you will think I'm wrong and being ott but it's honestly what I think
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on October 17, 2017, 02:25:17 AM
Just looked at the runners and riders if RK gets the tin tack. After looking I say give him till at least Christmas.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 17, 2017, 02:43:01 PM
Absolutely - and if you take in his 3 seasons PL record, you'd hire that man tomorrow
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: pjk on October 17, 2017, 03:25:44 PM
It's getting harder not to become critical of him. I had to bite my tongue when Martinez started to get things so disastrously wrong. It's starting to get pretty difficult to hold back the tide with Koeman. The only reason I'm still on board with him, ("only just".) Is the very difficult fixtures we've had thus far. Watching us on Sunday was concerning, even though a couple of the youngsters gave some sense of hope things could be turned around. We've also played some pretty average teams and not done too well either. The next few weeks are going to be pretty crucial as to whether I can give it my personal support for him to stay. It's still too early to judge, but I didn't enjoy what was served up at Brighton on Sunday.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: blargins on October 17, 2017, 04:09:54 PM
Iím really not arsed anymore. Whoever comes in will have the same problem. January will only help fix it by buying players for the positions we need. By then it would probably be too late as who would want to join a bottom five club out of Europe?

For all the positive summer we had Jamie Charagher was right. We didnít buy wisely.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 17, 2017, 04:22:06 PM
glorified chief scout

not even that glorified, what with some at the club - at board level - referring to him as being "like an old woman"

I can well see that being the case. The more I see of Moshiri I think he needs to appoint a proper football man to advise him. He's clearly great at securing funding for large projects and keeping a tight rein on finances but I think he needs someone to tell him to keep his mouth shut in public and to let football people get on with making football decisions.

Steve Walsh was only ever a scout, an experienced one mind you but a scout none the less. In my view we need to be appointing someone with bags of experience at the top level in that position. The past generation was one where there wasn't plenty of money sloshing around so a lot of that era would probably bite your hand off for a well paid job at Everton Football Club, giving us the benefit of their experience.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Hawkandro on October 17, 2017, 06:44:21 PM
glorified chief scout

not even that glorified, what with some at the club - at board level - referring to him as being "like an old woman"

Too many cooks and all that...
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 17, 2017, 06:47:26 PM
lol umpteen times this season,. Rooney and Siggy have occupied the same space.. we still have no central striker.. and the only one we have we play on the left wing LOL at koeman.

1/3 on now to come second in the sack race.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Normm on October 18, 2017, 06:14:09 AM
Martinez will always have our respect for the speech he gave over Hillsborough.

With DK, it has been going downhill since January. Grasping a draw at Brighton is no turning point. The team is a mess and we are facing a relegation battle. But, OK ...

Thanks Ron. We wish you well in your next employment.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Redartin on October 18, 2017, 06:00:59 PM
Just had a look at Ron's record over the last couple of years. Spot the pattern.

In the 2015/16 season at Southampton he went through a twelve match sequence between Nov 15 and Jan 16 where he won just two games, drew one, and lost nine, including getting knocked out of the FA cup at home to C Palace, and getting hammered 6-1 at home by the shite in the League cup. He turned it around and they qualified for Europe.

In the 2016/17 season he went through a similar eleven/ twelve match sequence between Sept and Dec, where he only won two games, and drew, or lost the rest, including a defeat to Norwich in the League cup. He also turned this around and we qualified for Europe.

Already this season, in the last eleven matches, we have only won two. We have not exited any of the cups yet. Do I want him to also turn this around? No I want him out to fuck. Someone else can turn this one, although personally I think our season is fucked already and it is only Oct because we can't do anything about the debacle of transfers til Jan
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Hawkandro on October 18, 2017, 06:46:03 PM
I was thinking the same thing last night; he went through similar fallow periods at Southampton. Maybe we will start picking up wins again next match and go on a long unbeaten run...







...LOL
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 18, 2017, 06:46:24 PM
It's a strange situation. A win tomorrow keeps us in Europe, him in a job and we muddle on to weekend. A draw at weekend (deserved or otherwise) at home to Arsenal isn't a disastrous result so we muddle on to Chelsea away. An expected loss there ( I know I know) isn't a sackable offence in and of itself. So we stumble on... At what point is enough enough though. I suppose we may know by tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Hawkandro on October 18, 2017, 06:47:49 PM
It's a strange situation. A win tomorrow keeps us in Europe, him in a job and we muddle on to weekend. A draw at weekend (deserved or otherwise) at home to Arsenal isn't a disastrous result so we muddle on to Chelsea away. An expected loss there ( I know I know) isn't a sackable offence in and of itself. So we stumble on... At what point is enough enough though. I suppose we may know by tomorrow evening.

I would imagine crashing out of Europe and the Carabao Cup will be classed as 'enough'. (I hope)
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 18, 2017, 06:52:29 PM
I would imagine crashing out of Europe and the Carabao Cup will be classed as 'enough'. (I hope)

You'd like to think so but a win tomorrow keeps him in a job for the foreseeable in my opinion, regardless of the two games after it. As our new owner in his limited and misguided knowledge of what is acceptable to Everton Football Club might give him the benefit of the doubt in two games against the footballing elite.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: ally2 on October 18, 2017, 07:41:42 PM
Just had a look at Ron's record over the last couple of years. Spot the pattern.

In the 2015/16 season at Southampton he went through a twelve match sequence between Nov 15 and Jan 16 where he won just two games, drew one, and lost nine, including getting knocked out of the FA cup at home to C Palace, and getting hammered 6-1 at home by the shite in the League cup. He turned it around and they qualified for Europe.

In the 2016/17 season he went through a similar eleven/ twelve match sequence between Sept and Dec, where he only won two games, and drew, or lost the rest, including a defeat to Norwich in the League cup. He also turned this around and we qualified for Europe.

Already this season, in the last eleven matches, we have only won two. We have not exited any of the cups yet. Do I want him to also turn this around? No I want him out to fuck. Someone else can turn this one, although personally I think our season is fucked already and it is only Oct because we can't do anything about the debacle of transfers til Jan

That reads as quite a good defence of Koeman.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 18, 2017, 07:51:58 PM
Exactly - and Saints also qualified for Europe in 2014-15 with Colonel Koeman

The balance of probability is: He'll turn this around

It'll be a bit of a slog and it won't be pretty but once the "high expectations syndrome" diminishes - hold on to your hats!

Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: gizzblue on October 18, 2017, 07:56:14 PM
Exactly - and Saints also qualified for Europe in 2014-15 with Colonel Koeman

The balance of probability is: He'll turn this around

It'll be a bit of a slog and it won't be pretty but once the "high expectations syndrome" diminishes - hold on to your hats!
Would love to see it ...but I doubt even with my bluest of hearts he's capable, I honestly believe his man management skills are really shite ....and preferes to ridicule and blame than help and improve .
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 18, 2017, 07:57:21 PM
Fair comment
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: gizzblue on October 18, 2017, 10:17:46 PM
According to the Echo he's got the full support of the board ....
Ffs are they blind or what '
Already spending parachute payments ??.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 18, 2017, 10:46:10 PM
Martinez will always have our respect for the speech he gave over Hillsborough.

With DK, it has been going downhill since January.

What's Martinez or Hillsborough got to do with anything?

Who is DK?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: D15TIN on October 18, 2017, 10:49:46 PM
Martinez will always have our respect for the speech he gave over Hillsborough.

With DK, it has been going downhill since January. Grasping a draw at Brighton is no turning point. The team is a mess and we are facing a relegation battle. But, OK ...

Thanks Ron. We wish you well in your next employment.
January-March was our best period of last season from what I remember, whose DK? and I fail to see what a Martinez speech has to do with anything- darkest days watching everton for me those last 2 Martinez seasons
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: toffee_scot on October 19, 2017, 12:11:02 AM
What's Martinez or Hillsborough got to do with anything?

Who is DK?

I'm thinking either Destination Kirkby or Donkey Kong.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 19, 2017, 12:12:52 AM
Dirty koeman?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 19, 2017, 12:55:05 AM
According to the Echo he's got the full support of the board ....
Ffs are they blind or what '
Already spending parachute payments ??.

Teresa May has the full support of the party... AKA getting rid as soon as they can but want to avoid embarrassment.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 19, 2017, 01:01:37 AM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41670426
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 19, 2017, 01:09:47 AM
Mrs May will probably see out her reign until the Article 50 Brexit deadline on 29th March 2019, about three months before the end of Dutchy Koeman's contract and tenure as Everton manager.

Moshiri has probably agreed to support Koeman with new players in January on Koeman's insistence barring catastrophic results

Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Redartin on October 19, 2017, 03:15:54 PM
Another first for Everton:

First woman manager - Teresa May
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: formerKHL on October 19, 2017, 04:28:29 PM
Don't get me wrong here I've said it before and i'll repeat it again now..I never wanted koeman here in the first place.....ok that's the waiver out of the way...

had a great long conversation with a "colleague" yesterday re our predicament and he came up with some good points of "interest" to think about....this is a man who basically...been there and done that and analyses everything he does down to the colour of his socks....

he broke our season down into...3 bad defeats...spurs, atalanta and Manu...H 0-3, A 3-0, A 4-0.....he mentioned Chelsea away but suggested we wouldn't normally expect to get anything there anyway...

2 home "close" defeats....... where being honest it's not the type of football evertonians expect to see but we were the "better" side in both games.... bmouth and burnley...and probably should have won....

a draw away against the best side in the league...city who have been hammering teams...and I argued we were very lucky not to be hammered ourselves......which he agreed with..but counter argued....and this is where it really  hits home for me...

he said football is a business and a winning business at that... and what people are interested in is results not style of play...it's therefore very fine margins that make the difference......

apart from those games above we've only  lost by a 1 goal margin or drew the game....
we should've beaten bmth, burnley and brighton and apallon.....Obviously we didn't...BUT if we had beaten them he hypothesised....

although the style of play is poor according to fans......would we still be shouting for his head ? He would still be the same manager with his own style of doing things......doing things his way...

He reckons Koeman will turn it around....IF given time....

All a bit irrelevant I know as he clearly stated results are results.....but made me think....and cant make my mind up if he's right or wrong ?

Would people take "bad" wins over a better style of play and current results ?

Don't shoot the messenger......
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 19, 2017, 04:35:38 PM
glorified chief scout

not even that glorified, what with some at the club - at board level - referring to him as being "like an old woman"

Not great news that.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: TheRam on October 19, 2017, 04:38:13 PM
Not great news that.

I'm still intrigued by the 'has baggage' comment by a supposed 'itk' from the other week.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 19, 2017, 05:21:17 PM
Don't get me wrong here I've said it before and i'll repeat it again now..I never wanted koeman here in the first place.....ok that's the waiver out of the way...

had a great long conversation with a "colleague" yesterday re our predicament and he came up with some good points of "interest" to think about....this is a man who basically...been there and done that and analyses everything he does down to the colour of his socks....

he broke our season down into...3 bad defeats...spurs, atalanta and Manu...H 0-3, A 3-0, A 4-0.....he mentioned Chelsea away but suggested we wouldn't normally expect to get anything there anyway...

2 home "close" defeats....... where being honest it's not the type of football evertonians expect to see but we were the "better" side in both games.... bmouth and burnley...and probably should have won....

a draw away against the best side in the league...city who have been hammering teams...and I argued we were very lucky not to be hammered ourselves......which he agreed with..but counter argued....and this is where it really  hits home for me...

he said football is a business and a winning business at that... and what people are interested in is results not style of play...it's therefore very fine margins that make the difference......

apart from those games above we've only  lost by a 1 goal margin or drew the game....
we should've beaten bmth, burnley and brighton and apallon.....Obviously we didn't...BUT if we had beaten them he hypothesised....

although the style of play is poor according to fans......would we still be shouting for his head ? He would still be the same manager with his own style of doing things......doing things his way...

He reckons Koeman will turn it around....IF given time....

All a bit irrelevant I know as he clearly stated results are results.....but made me think....and cant make my mind up if he's right or wrong ?

Would people take "bad" wins over a better style of play and current results ?

Don't shoot the messenger......

Too many points to address in that post and the fact I read 'fine margins' made me think of the Martinez era which completely turned me off the whole argument.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: formerKHL on October 19, 2017, 05:40:04 PM
TBH..i'm not even trying to put an argument up....

it was a very long interesting conversation I tried to condense into a post......which threw up in my mind a simple question...
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Waltzer on October 19, 2017, 05:54:58 PM

Would people take "bad" wins over a better style of play and current results ?


If Koeman stays I think thats all we can expect at best until January, bad wins. The entire recruitment drive was focused around us acquiring a big centre forward. There were stats that highlighted all of Koemans sides cross the ball into the box more than any other, likewise Sigurdsson has created loads more headed opportunities than anyone else, Klasseen would also thrive off of knock downs etc.

He is stubborn in his failure to adapt to what hes got, but so was Pep when he first came into City, he hasnt changed his philosophy, but the results are coming now as hes got the players to suit his style. Koeman will get the season in my opinion as the board have invested too much into his style, when we get our centre forward, and if results dont change then hes in trouble, but until then itll be a case of making do and ugly wins.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: brap2 on October 19, 2017, 05:59:24 PM
I'm still intrigued by the 'has baggage' comment by a supposed 'itk' from the other week.

Mad how many positive things have turned to dust the last few months.

Fully expecting this stadium to never go ahead as well. Part and parcel of supporting this fucking club.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 19, 2017, 06:08:55 PM

Insanity is doing the same thing(s) over and over again and expecting a different result..

can't believe he hasnt learned that his tactics are the problem. we've played the most games.. surely the team would know them by now... he's like an ANTI football manager. no style, no pace, no creativity.. how does he expect to get success with that???
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Toddacelli on October 19, 2017, 06:19:13 PM
the "fuck you" is to waiting to long to make change, we made that mistake with DM, who i thought did ok for a while with very little,and RM who did fuck all with more. for once, PLEASE. lets get it right, be ruthless, be demanding. send a fucking message,  WE WANT WINNERS ONLY.

If only we could do something like instill a club motto that demanded the best or something...
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Toddacelli on October 19, 2017, 06:24:07 PM
Iím really not arsed anymore. Whoever comes in will have the same problem. January will only help fix it by buying players for the positions we need. By then it would probably be too late as who would want to join a bottom five club out of Europe?

For all the positive summer we had Jamie Charagher was right. We didnít buy wisely.

Sorry Blarg - love you man, but anyone who uses 'Jamie Carragher was right' mis-spelled or otherwise - has to get a Tool.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 19, 2017, 06:32:15 PM
If Koeman stays I think thats all we can expect at best until January, bad wins. The entire recruitment drive was focused around us acquiring a big centre forward. There were stats that highlighted all of Koemans sides cross the ball into the box more than any other, likewise Sigurdsson has created loads more headed opportunities than anyone else, Klasseen would also thrive off of knock downs etc.

He is stubborn in his failure to adapt to what hes got, but so was Pep when he first came into City, he hasnt changed his philosophy, but the results are coming now as hes got the players to suit his style. Koeman will get the season in my opinion as the board have invested too much into his style, when we get our centre forward, and if results dont change then hes in trouble, but until then itll be a case of making do and ugly wins.

Has he ever really had major success though with his preferred style and players? The best he's had here is 7th isn't it? Which is below where we finished the year before he came to England, allied to the fact his cup record during that period is woeful.
With Guardiola they persevered as they know when he got it right it'd be worth it. Is getting us to where we should be, 7th, success? Just a honest question.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: blargins on October 19, 2017, 06:46:42 PM
Sorry Blarg - love you man, but anyone who uses 'Jamie Carragher was right' mis-spelled or otherwise - has to get a Tool.

Tool away my man. Just saying as I see it.

He was right about Barkley too. You'll have to wait til tomorrow to tool me again :)
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Toddacelli on October 19, 2017, 06:47:48 PM
Tool away my man. Just saying as I see it.

He was right about Barkley too. You'll have to wait til tomorrow to tool me again :)

Yeah but not to Cool you!
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Waltzer on October 19, 2017, 07:12:04 PM
Has he ever really had major success though with his preferred style and players? The best he's had here is 7th isn't it? Which is below where we finished the year before he came to England, allied to the fact his cup record during that period is woeful.
With Guardiola they persevered as they know when he got it right it'd be worth it. Is getting us to where we should be, 7th, success? Just a honest question.

I agree 7th isnt good enough, im just trying to give some justification and rationale, people say he should change/adapt but rarely any managers do, they stick t what they know.
Finishing 6th with Southampton was pretty successful, although having never won anything as a manager is the clear downfall but has he previously been given the resources to compete?
Regardless of who took over, or who takes over if Koeman is sacked, getting Everton in the top 6 will be a remarkable achievement, unless Moshiri really loosens the purse strings as despite the promises there havent been any indications hes that serious, our transfer windows have been very similar to life under Kenwright with us having a minimal spend or selling our best player to reinvest.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 19, 2017, 07:16:18 PM
Yeah but not to Cool you!

Carragher's sound, and an excellent pundit, imo. I know he sometimes tries to wind our fans up but I don't blame him. I think deep down he still has a lot of affection for us.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Macca77 on October 19, 2017, 07:20:13 PM
Carragher's sound, and an excellent pundit, imo. I know he sometimes tries to wind our fans up but I don't blame him. I think deep down he still has a lot of affection for us.

He plays footy with my cousin and a few of his mates, they're all blues, he always talks about Everton, still says the worst day of his footballing life was when we beat them 3-0, he was in tears in the dressing room after.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 19, 2017, 07:31:43 PM
I agree 7th isnt good enough, im just trying to give some justification and rationale, people say he should change/adapt but rarely any managers do, they stick t what they know.
Finishing 6th with Southampton was pretty successful, although having never won anything as a manager is the clear downfall but has he previously been given the resources to compete?
Regardless of who took over, or who takes over if Koeman is sacked, getting Everton in the top 6 will be a remarkable achievement, unless Moshiri really loosens the purse strings as despite the promises there havent been any indications hes that serious, our transfer windows have been very similar to life under Kenwright with us having a minimal spend or selling our best player to reinvest.

I think we was probably the right appointment at the time as we needed stability and his record seemed to suggest he would offer that. He was also the biggest name in management in our history so it was seen to be a coup on face value.

I just think an awful summer and a lot of poor decisions on and off the pitch have hamstrung him and it's snowballed from there. He doesn't seem to have the ideas or the tactical flexibility to solve it, which is strange from one so experienced. Coupled with his seeming indifference to the plight and his sullen personality and it doesn't really look like the right mix to get us out of it.

Sometimes you just have to admit things aren't working and anything less than a win tonight and it should be time for a change.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Waltzer on October 19, 2017, 07:39:32 PM

Sometimes you just have to admit things aren't working and anything less than a win tonight and it should be time for a change.


Cant argue with most of that but I still think he'll get until the end of the season (watch him get sacked tomorrow now :) ). I honestly think if we had a Giroud or someone similar we wouldn't be far off competing for the top 6 places.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Bluedylan on October 19, 2017, 07:42:15 PM
If we'd had anything about us this season, there's actually a perfect chance to make Top 6 because Arsenal look even frailer than usual and there's talk that Sanchez and Ozil could leave in January. If we were on it this season, I think we could've finished above them, but we've pretty much fucked it already.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 19, 2017, 07:55:38 PM
Hamstrung, he is! As would any immediate replacement

Koeman's a tough cookie and from a Dutch generation that did national military service

You either take to a Colonel man management style or you don't; either that or the likes of Klaassen, Sandro, Holgate, Lookman, Williams, Niasse, Martina, Kenny and Besic are just not quite good enough - yet..........................

Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: formerKHL on October 19, 2017, 08:08:02 PM
I think we was probably the right appointment at the time as we needed stability and his record seemed to suggest he would offer that. He was also the biggest name in management in our history so it was seen to be a coup on face value.

I just think an awful summer and a lot of poor decisions on and off the pitch have hamstrung him and it's snowballed from there. He doesn't seem to have the ideas or the tactical flexibility to solve it, which is strange from one so experienced
. Coupled with his seeming indifference to the plight and his sullen personality and it doesn't really look like the right mix to get us out of it.

Sometimes you just have to admit things aren't working and anything less than a win tonight and it should be time for a change.

I agree with all of the statement in bold.....
i'd question the statement in italics and underlined.... I don't believe he is indifferent to our plight...being a professional this will be hurting him deeply i'd say....he is what he is personality wise...and TBH I tend to think his "dutchness" is somewhat misinterpreted on TV, both body language and his spoken word....
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Normm on October 19, 2017, 08:21:30 PM
Sacking Koeman will be hard for those who fought so hard to employ him. People are often reluctant to admitting to mistakes. RM never did, RK finds his excuses. Moshiri? ...He can blame BK. But, after spending all those millions, after selling RL, he will be reluctant to spend big in January, unless there is a radical change ...either in performance, or management.

IMO
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 19, 2017, 08:26:36 PM
I just read last night in my "Finding the Heroes of Everton" book how Carragher's middle name is Duncan after Duncan McKenzie, and it made me want to fucking kill somebody.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 19, 2017, 08:32:01 PM
If we're calling Rooney, Sigurdsson, Klaassen and Vlasic (plus Barkley) number 10's (and I'm calling for Mata in January!), how would you solve it?

Play them all, leaving three out of position? Or use just one and relegate the other three to the subs bench?

The Koeman conundrum!




Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 19, 2017, 08:34:31 PM
Rooney is an impact sub.  Klaassen ought to play next to either Gana or Schneiderlin (rotating with Davies).  Vlasic is fine on the wing.

Sigurdsson should get a run at the #10 of two months, minimum.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 19, 2017, 08:40:49 PM
Is it possible to play two in the position of number 10, one left and one right?

Or does that defeat the object of that position?
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 19, 2017, 08:41:14 PM
I agree with all of the statement in bold.....
i'd question the statement in italics and underlined.... I don't believe he is indifferent to our plight...being a professional this will be hurting him deeply i'd say....he is what he is personality wise...and TBH I tend to think his "dutchness" is somewhat misinterpreted on TV, both body language and his spoken word....

You may be right, itís just a personal opinion based on his views on the job at the start and where it sits in his career and his less than enthusiastic persona in general.

It might just be an English thing but we like to see managers hurting and looking as if they are giving a shit. If Iím honest, whilst clearly heíd like to be doing well, I donít think heís that bothered what he leaves behind when he goes. His management career suggests heís quite detached in that regard.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: Lxxx on October 19, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Is it possible to play two in the position of number 10, one left and one right?

Or does that defeat the object of that position?

Itíd help us immensely at the minute if we could play two No 1ís.
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: BlueForYou on October 19, 2017, 08:46:53 PM
I'm not sure if Sir Alf Ramsey showed much emotion
Title: Re: [News]Hapless Koeman MUST go
Post by: formerKHL on October 19, 2017, 09:09:19 PM
You may be right, itís just a personal opinion based on his views on the job at the start and where it sits in his career and his less than enthusiastic persona in general.

It might just be an English thing but we like to see managers hurting and looking as if they are giving a shit. If Iím honest, whilst clearly heíd like to be doing well, I donít think heís that bothered what he leaves behind when he goes. His management career suggests heís quite detached in that regard.

I know what you're saying but my wife is dutch moluccan and when I first met her she was so laid back in her attitude it drove me nuts..still does..it comes across as very indifferent..