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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 04:05:18 AM

Title: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 04:05:18 AM
Just another James Vaughan. Be playing in league one in 2 years. Offers f**kall. Can take his mate Holgate with him, laughing and joking coming off the pitch tonight. Wanted to slap him
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: bluenuck on October 20, 2017, 04:10:26 AM
First off, hes like 20 and he is still raw. And I think it's a bit harsh. DCL was never ready to be an everyday starting CF. I think he's doing his best, but he's not ready.


But, and I can't find the post, but I said it after our 2nd game this season I believe... I can't see what everyone else sees in him. So I'm not surprised to see this thread.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:11:24 AM
Just another James Vaughan. Be playing in league one in 2 years. Offers f**kall. Can take his mate Holgate with him, laughing and joking coming off the pitch tonight. Wanted to slap him
He is shite.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: everton1952 on October 20, 2017, 04:12:26 AM
Very ordinary like most of them. It was only in desperation people bulled him up as a number 9. He would not get a place in any PL team.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tinga on October 20, 2017, 04:13:29 AM
What do you expect when the manager doesn't sign a replacement for a player we knew was leaving in March.  lolol Clown FC.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TrevorSteven on October 20, 2017, 04:15:43 AM
Agree. DCL is not good enough. He is average in all aspects, Jermaine Beckford was better.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: wepull on October 20, 2017, 04:18:56 AM
Wow. Simply wow. Writing someone off who is 20 and getting so much time in PL is just moronic.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 20, 2017, 04:21:23 AM
Ah fuck off. The lads gone from the fringe to being our main striker. Keeper pulled off a great save that stopped him from scoring tonight. There's a lot wrong at Everton right now but he's been a bright spark in nearly every turgid, crap filled Everton display
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:22:47 AM
Wow. Simply wow. Writing someone off who is 20 and getting so much time in PL is just moronic.
What can you see in him.?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 20, 2017, 04:23:29 AM
Needs a bit of refining but he will be a great player. Vaughan had 1 decent attribute, DCL has many.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on October 20, 2017, 04:23:35 AM
He is too young to be getting this flack.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:25:33 AM
He is too young to be getting this flack.
No he isn't.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Deano Blue Boy on October 20, 2017, 04:27:27 AM
One of the worst things about this season has  been our fans. No doubt.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 20, 2017, 04:28:18 AM
Agree. DCL is not good enough. He is average in all aspects, Jermaine Beckford was better.
Beckford tho ha ha

He'd be great as a sub to bring him on but it's way too much to ask him to be the physical focal point
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Heisenberg on October 20, 2017, 04:28:35 AM
Everton fans are really bad at directing their anger.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 04:30:02 AM
I'm not writing him off as he's very young but he's not currently good enough to be playing premier league football. Honestly I'm not sure he ever will be. Certainly nothing in his performances to date that have justified comparisons with Harry Kane. He works hard puts himself about but really so far that's it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 20, 2017, 04:30:14 AM
Ah fuck off. The lads gone from the fringe to being our main striker. Keeper pulled off a great save that stopped him from scoring tonight. There's a lot wrong at Everton right now but he's been a bright spark in nearly every turgid, crap filled Everton display
Wow. Simply wow. Writing someone off who is 20 and getting so much time in PL is just moronic.

lol some over reactions tonight, he has no support, he hardly plays as the central striker.. same as holgate playing all over the shop,, it would help the players get better if they played in their correct positions..

imagine if our system actually benefited our players, like playing to the players advantages rather than Koeman mish mashing a team together..

If DCL had a striker supporting him, we had 2 wingers, a holding CM and a creative one.. i think we would do well.. aslongas martina or williams aren;t anywhere near the 1st team.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:31:05 AM
Needs a bit of refining but he will be a great player. Vaughan had 1 decent attribute, DCL has many.
You can vault me forever on this DCL will never ever be a great player.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on October 20, 2017, 04:31:13 AM
No he isn't.

Yes he is.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on October 20, 2017, 04:31:57 AM
You can vault me forever on this DCL will never ever be a great player.


You might be right but give him a full season or two before he is thrown to he wolves.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:32:21 AM
Yes he is.
Yes he is what?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 20, 2017, 04:32:33 AM
I'm not writing him off as he's very young but he's not currently good enough to be playing premier league football. Honestly I'm not sure he ever will be. Certainly nothing in his performances to date that have justified comparisons with Harry Kane. He works hard puts himself about but really so far that's it.

You're obsessed with this harry kane thing despite the fact it's barely ever been mentioned.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on October 20, 2017, 04:33:22 AM
I'm not writing him off as he's very young but he's not currently good enough to be playing premier league football. Honestly I'm not sure he ever will be. Certainly nothing in his performances to date that have justified comparisons with Harry Kane. He works hard puts himself about but really so far that's it.

Mate abar two people compared him to Harry Kane. Fucking jib it, no ones arsed.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on October 20, 2017, 04:33:26 AM
Yes he is what?

Yes he is what huh?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 20, 2017, 04:33:44 AM
You canít be slating a player that has had so little time to develop. Heís not even got into his 20ís yet and weíre expecting him to step into the striker role that our board has failed to fill.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:33:52 AM

You might be right but give him a full season or two before he is thrown to he wolves.
Why?he will make a great living out of the game,but not at prem level.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Makis on October 20, 2017, 04:34:06 AM
He needs to improve his finishing. He gets into scoring positions but just can't find the net often enough.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on October 20, 2017, 04:34:30 AM
He does need to be braver in front of goal for sure.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:34:57 AM
Yes he is what huh?
Alllllllrighty.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 20, 2017, 04:36:57 AM
You can vault me forever on this DCL will never ever be a great player.

He will
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 20, 2017, 04:37:06 AM
I think people rate him because he's young and does a number of things to a reasonable standard.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:38:18 AM
He will
Not.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: mikey_blue on October 20, 2017, 04:38:46 AM
Shit fan.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Macca77 on October 20, 2017, 04:39:08 AM
What the fuck is this!? I leave you all alone for 10 minutes and this happens
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:41:28 AM
Shit fan.
Get a new one then.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 04:45:38 AM
You're obsessed with this harry kane thing despite the fact it's barely ever been mentioned.

There was a fucking thread on it. Loads of people on here have stated how great DCL is. He's scored 1 league goal in about 20 games. It's bordering on delusional on current performances
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: wepull on October 20, 2017, 04:47:32 AM
What can you see in him.?
He's fast, decent in air, his passing skills is fine also he can with the ball when given the space, his finishing skills surely can be improved but he hasn't really missed any one on ones this season.

Given all this, I don't think he should be starting every match for a club like ours at this age. He's far from ready and should ideally been used as an option from the bench at the max. He's not ready to take on defenders of PL calibre or be the focal point of our attack. He was playing U-21s last season, played like 3-4 matches for the first team in the whole of last season and now suddenly he's our main striker and written off by our fans already. He needs time to develop his skills and I would say he's actually progressed tremendously since he first came in.

It's not his fault that he's been played in all matches which he isn't ready for and that too in a team which struggles to string 3 passes in a row in the opposition half.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 20, 2017, 04:51:59 AM
He's fast, decent in air, his passing skills is fine also he can with the ball when given the space, his finishing skills surely can be improved but he hasn't really missed any one on ones this season.

Given all this, I don't think he should be starting every match for a club like ours at this age. He's far from ready and should ideally been used as an option from the bench at the max. He's not ready to take on defenders of PL calibre or be the focal point of our attack. He was playing U-21s last season, played like 3-4 matches for the first team in the whole of last season and now suddenly he's our main striker and written off by our fans already. He needs time to develop his skills and I would say he's actually progressed tremendously since he first came in.

It's not his fault that he's been played in all matches which he isn't ready for and that too in a team which struggles to string 3 passes in a row in the opposition half.
He certainly is not fast,and he movement is non existent,he an ok player and will improve but not to any top quality standard.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 04:52:23 AM
You will all call koeman every name under the sun but dare I say anything about DCL and itS below the belt due to his age......hhhmmm......that would give 18 yr old Rooney a laugh! DCL is a minted footballer, I am sure he will get over it if I don't rate him ffs ! God help him the misfortune......its nothing personal against him but he, for me, offers nothing. And the sight of him and  Mason laughing walking off the pitch infuriated me. Seems this hurts me more than them.....maybe it does, I am broke.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 20, 2017, 04:56:00 AM
He's sound DCL
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: ally2 on October 20, 2017, 04:56:16 AM
Were they laughing?  That's a big deal for me. You hear the top players don't want to talk if they lose, they're bad losers, they feel physically sick.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Stumpy on October 20, 2017, 04:56:40 AM
I myself don't see anything in him,but it's far to early to write him off.He's not anywhere near ready to lead the the line for any premiership club,never mind us.However that's not his fault,thats down to Walsh and Koeman for leaving us with this shambles.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 04:56:58 AM
By the way, people giving RK abuse for not signing a striker..... Pretty sure it wasn't his doing.......the days of managers buying players are gone, RK was like a lunatic we didn't buy a striker
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 04:59:51 AM
Were they laughing?  That's a big deal for me. You hear the top players don't want to talk if they lose, they're bad losers, they feel physically sick.
they were, I was livid. Williams might be chronic but he had the  good grace to be genuinely disgusted post match
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 20, 2017, 05:06:22 AM
I didn't get the hype last year, I didn't think he was a particularly natural finisher for a striker. He's shown more in parts of this season though. That said, he's a bring him on with 20 mins to go when we're winning type of player right now. He's not what we should be relying on at all at this juncture.

We're absolutely desperate for a striker, a leader at that end of the pitch.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on October 20, 2017, 05:36:09 AM
This thread is sad, half of the stuff he's bring critised for can be attributed to our poor form, lack of confidence and the snails pace at which we move the ball. The other half is bollocks.

How anyone can say he isn't quick is beyond me, and worse than beckford?!??! Get a grip.

It's like there has been a collective loss of perspective.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on October 20, 2017, 05:39:25 AM
He just got schooled tonight by a couple of experienced centre halves who took it in turns to bully him. Wasn't his fault. They were twice his size and he was being asked to jump for balls he had no hope of winning.

Watched him closely tonight and he looked knackered and dispirited but nearly got a great goal at the end. Cut him some slack, he should never be leading the line at his age.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 05:40:40 AM
This thread is sad, half of the stuff he's bring critised for can be attributed to our poor form, lack of confidence and the snails pace at which we move the ball. The other half is bollocks.

How anyone can say he isn't quick is beyond me, and worse than beckford?!??! Get a grip.

It's like there has been a collective loss of perspective.

He's got 1 league goal. I don't see how anyone can confidently predict he's going to be a decent top flight player. Not saying he isn't but the performances haven't been good
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 20, 2017, 05:44:48 AM
Were they laughing?  That's a big deal for me. You hear the top players don't want to talk if they lose, they're bad losers, they feel physically sick.

I feel theres a great camaradori in the under 23 team, which Davies, DCL, Holgate, Lookman where apart of, in their interviews they possess charisma and they get on really well / have great banta.. Least it shows that these guys aren;t down.. they have positive attitudes and they dont shy from the ball when they play.

maybe they had bets on for Koeman being sacked in the morning or more likely smiling cos they know Unsworth will be there manager again. :D
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 20, 2017, 06:22:46 AM
He's got 1 league goal. I don't see how anyone can confidently predict he's going to be a decent top flight player. Not saying he isn't but the performances haven't been good

Can you remind us all how many goals have we scored in total? Yes, exactly.

He's not the natural finisher Lukaku was at his age, but he's got a far better first touch than Lukaku will ever have, he's got a decent turn of pace and is always looking to isolate and beat defenders.

What he isn't good enough for is to be the lone striker/target man/battering ram/winger/universal outball in a dysfunctional team. But then not many players are.

He needs to work on his heading (he's good at flicking on long balls forward but not good at heading on goal) and his upper body strength. And he shouldn't be played all game every game at his age, but that shouldn't even need saying.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on October 20, 2017, 06:38:21 AM
He's being asked to do way to much for a young lad ffs give the lad a break ... he's showed more than half the fucking team at times being played out of position ...he's a twenty mins at the end when everyone's knackered player at the min leading the line for a shit team with no tactics and an inept manager .
This thread Sounds like a touch of jelousy .😅😅
Title: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: arteta4spain on October 20, 2017, 06:44:12 AM
The problem we have with dcl is that he's young quite inexperienced and what kind of service is he getting lately.
I said to some lad at the game, even Lukaku would have struggled to score against these tonight.
People moan about Rooney coming all the way back into midfield to retrieve the ball. Is that what you want DCL to do? Give the lad a break, we're more HOPING he can become something like Harry Kane. We aren't gonna crucify him if he doesn't. Felt for the lad tonight he tried hard and as it's been mentioned their cbs were fucking units.
Blame Koeman on this not DCL, he's trying his best and yes it's probably not good enough right now but honestly it's not his fault.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 20, 2017, 07:00:09 AM
Starting this thread is ridiculous.

He's 20!

And actually he's done really well in spells...

It's the club that's failed us, by not signing another striker or two.

It's embarrassing that a PL club has a 20 year old as its only recognised striker.

No other club in the league is in our position, it's absolute negligence by those who were responsible for recruitment this summer.

But to criticise DCL for any of it isn't just being a shit fan, it's fucking stupidity.

He shouldn't be burdened with shouldering this responsibility at his age.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 20, 2017, 12:33:24 PM
Based on the finishing he's shown to date I don't think he's a natural goalscorer
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 01:54:33 PM
I'm not sure people are slagging him off or blaming him for anything just saying the jury is still out as to if he's going to have a successful career as a top flight striker

People keep implying he's done well this season but the reality is there's probably a better striker at almost every other premiership club. The reality is he's pretty much proved to not be currently good enough. I really don't understand why everyone wants to make out that's people getting on his back, it's really not. He's vastly improved from last season and currently well short of being good enough.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Waltzer on October 20, 2017, 01:56:36 PM
He's being asked to do way to much for a young lad ffs give the lad a break ... he's showed more than half the fucking team at times being played out of position ...he's a twenty mins at the end when everyone's knackered player at the min leading the line for a shit team with no tactics and an inept manager .
This thread Sounds like a touch of jelousy .😅😅

I agree, hes being put in situations that he shouldnt be. Its the failings of the board, I feel sorry for him tbh, hes doing his best with little experience at this level and here we are with some criticism him. I bet if people asked him if he thought he was ready for this he'd say no, but we have limited options so cut him some slack
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: stirlingblue on October 20, 2017, 02:04:10 PM
Great site lads
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 02:05:10 PM
I agree, hes being put in situations that he shouldnt be. Its the failings of the board, I feel sorry for him tbh, hes doing his best with little experience at this level and here we are with some criticism him. I bet if people asked him if he thought he was ready for this he'd say no, but we have limited options so cut him some slack

What slack should we cut him. We don't think he's ready, you don't think he's ready and he probably doesn't think he's ready. I don't really understand the problem. No one is booing him or blaming him. Just saying he's not good enough.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 20, 2017, 02:16:06 PM
Plenty of strikers have been miles ahead of him aged 20.

I'm not writing him off and no doubt he'll improve over time, but I just don't see the signs that he's ultimately going to turn into a quality player.

Love to be proved wrong obviously.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueForYou on October 20, 2017, 07:35:12 PM
When 20 year old Trevor Steven started playing for us in 1983, people were writing him off (and the team, and Kendall) by Christmas and he didn't really get back in the side until Easter - by 1985 he was quality and playing for England

You can never predict when a player will start to come good - if at all
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 09:45:52 PM
you would sware he was fukin 12 the way some of ye are talking!!!
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 20, 2017, 09:50:34 PM
Plenty of strikers have been miles ahead of him aged 20.

And plenty great strikers were way behind too.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: boothill on October 20, 2017, 10:03:53 PM
to be fair to the lad, the amount of chances we were creating over the last few seasons was by far more greater than this, we are woeful at creation this season, we are are woeful at everything this season. give the lad a break till we can do something for him i say
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 20, 2017, 10:06:09 PM
And plenty great strikers were way behind too.

For sure. I'm just pointing it out. Feels a bit from some on here that it's unacceptable to raise the possibility that DCL might not turn out to be all that good. Fact is his profile is high as he's had an unexpected, rapid progression to the first team and scored an important goal for England under 20s, but in terms of what we're actually seeing on the pitch it's nothing (in my opinion) to get excited about... and that very well may change and I hope it does. But right now the mere fact that he's playing and doing *some* things to a competent standard is not in of itself a reason to get excited. If he was doing what players like Lukaku, Owen, Rashford, Barmby, Anelka, Rooney were doing when they were 20, then yeah let's get excited. But he's not.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 20, 2017, 10:14:13 PM
For sure. I'm just pointing it out. Feels a bit from some on here that it's unacceptable to raise the possibility that DCL might not turn out to be all that good. Fact is his profile is high as he's had an unexpected, rapid progression to the first team and scored an important goal for England under 20s, but in terms of what we're actually seeing on the pitch it's nothing (in my opinion) to get excited about... and that very well may change and I hope it does. But right now the mere fact that he's playing and doing *some* things to a competent standard is not in of itself a reason to get excited. If he was doing what players like Lukaku, Owen, Rashford, Barmby, Anelka, Rooney were doing when they were 20, then yeah let's get excited. But he's not.

I I refer you to the opening post of this thread.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 20, 2017, 10:14:29 PM
I fear DCL will be more Danny Cadamateri than Danny Welbeck :(
(and some of you scoffed at the idea of us buying Welbeck!)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 20, 2017, 10:18:52 PM
I I refer you to the opening post of this thread.

Well yes that was idiotic but there's a spectrum of opinions between that and what the "he can do no wrong" brigade are saying.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueski on October 20, 2017, 10:20:32 PM
still has bags of talent and potential but seems like in an ideal situation we should be mimicing (no clue how to spell that word by the way) Chelsea by sending him out on loan somewhere lower level where he can score and build up some form and confidence without the immense pressure anyone playing up top for EFC is under at the moment
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 20, 2017, 10:24:26 PM
Well yes that was idiotic but there's a spectrum of opinions between that and what the "he can do no wrong" brigade are saying.

I don't think there is a single member of this hypothetical "he can do no wrong" brigade you're mentioning. I certainly haven't seen anyone on this forum saying it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 20, 2017, 10:26:34 PM
Clearlry the issue is the football club,here we have a one and half million chance buy thats improved since his arrival thats clearly obvious.What is also staring you in the face is DCL is nowhere near good enough to lead the line for any Premier league outfit.Massive responsibility for the  lad in a piss poor side trying to play off scraps,if the club attends to business he would still be on the bench learning his trade in the normal progressive manner.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 20, 2017, 10:28:33 PM
Con said he's too young to be getting flack and 20 people liked it.

Interesting that Lukaku at the same age here divided opinion and was criticised plenty, despite actually scoring shit loads of goals.

Obviously I'm mostly just jealous of Con for getting 20 likes.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 10:28:47 PM
I don't think there is a single member of this hypothetical "he can do no wrong" brigade you're mentioning. I certainly haven't seen anyone on this forum saying it.

I can't remember who it was but 1 person implied he was the best young player in the world.

I've no clue what he's going to become but I think it's a fair comment to suggest he might not even have a future in the top flight. I just don't see it when he plays.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 20, 2017, 10:39:06 PM
I can't remember who it was but 1 person implied he was the best young player in the world.

That's still a very thin brigade :)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueForYou on October 20, 2017, 10:40:58 PM
One of the angry birds on here
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Gary1878 on October 20, 2017, 10:43:05 PM
There are plenty of far worse things about Everton to discuss than this. DCL is one of the only bright sparks of the season, and now fans are trying to get on his back.

He has put in some decent displays this season so far, unlike most of our squad. Leave him alone.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 10:44:22 PM
That's still a very thin brigade :)

Of course. There's a lot who view him a lot more positive than any of what he's done on the pitch though. Maybe they watch a lot of youth football.
I think people just want anything to cling to.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 20, 2017, 10:45:45 PM
There are plenty of far worse things about Everton to discuss than this. DCL is one of the only bright sparks of the season, and now fans are trying to get on his back.

He has put in some decent displays this season so far, unlike most of our squad. Leave him alone.

I don't really see the bright sparks. He's been as poor as everyone else.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueForYou on October 20, 2017, 10:47:40 PM
We all need something to cling on to
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Gary1878 on October 20, 2017, 10:55:47 PM
I don't really see the bright sparks. He's been as poor as everyone else.

Really? He has been as poor as Williams? Martina? Schnederlin? Sandro? Klaasen? Really? Are you seriously tarnishing him with the same brush as the aforementioned players?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: D15TIN on October 20, 2017, 11:53:13 PM
He needs a run of goals, saw in the U20 world cup and in patches this season that as a STRIKER he's got potential

Likes of Klaasen & Sandro concern me more than him by a long way. Klaasen mostly.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 12:12:04 AM
Really? He has been as poor as Williams? Martina? Schnederlin? Sandro? Klaasen? Really? Are you seriously tarnishing him with the same brush as the aforementioned players?

Yeah pretty much he has. He's done next to nothing. Williams last night produced a better performance than DCL has all season. You're talking in fractions. He's been better than some worse than others but there's not anyone who's been close to being good. I really just don't see it with him.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 01:10:53 AM
I watched the Williams incident again, Davies Holgate and DCL where the first players running to support Williams.. they care for the club, they are passionate towards the club.. all 3 of them got involved with the Lyon players.. yet Schneiderlin / Martina / dont show any of that...

These kids have the Everton mindframe/sprit, only a few of our senior players know what it means to play for Everton... lots of players brought in know fuck all what Everton is/means... the only reason the kids have it is due to Unsworth, the reason some senior players have it is due to Moyes / Martinez... Koeman has never shown himself to care for the club values we have had.. hence his players seem to give up.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueForYou on October 21, 2017, 02:27:56 AM
Who has brought those youngsters in and persevered with them?

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 21, 2017, 02:59:52 AM
Kids a baller. If you havenít seen his classy little touches and flicks then it sucks to be you.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 21, 2017, 03:08:20 AM
Yeah pretty much he has. He's done next to nothing. Williams last night produced a better performance than DCL has all season. You're talking in fractions. He's been better than some worse than others but there's not anyone who's been close to being good. I really just don't see it with him.

I agree with the fact that he's not been that good over the course of his appearances to date. He had a great game against Man City, but it's only been little moments aside from that game. Akin in some ways to Lookman (obviously he's had far less playing time).

Unless he's scoring goals or assisting us in scoring through hold up play then I don't think much else counts. And he hasn't done either of those things enough. I suppose he might just be the best option we have but that doesn't necessarily mean he's good enough.

If we had actually signed a striker this wouldn't have been a conversation as he'd not be playing much.

I appreciate people don't want to knock him as he's young, but he's playing for a PL club here with apparent aspirations of European football. So it's just a simple question of is he good enough for that job currently?

There are no goal or assist tallies that would suggest he was close right now.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 03:58:08 AM
Kids a baller. If you havenít seen his classy little touches and flicks then it sucks to be you.

You're very easily pleased.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 21, 2017, 05:17:42 AM
You're very easily pleased.

Could be. Either way, I enjoy watching him try entertaining things. Better than the rest of them trying absolutely nothing. Kidís a baller.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on October 21, 2017, 06:30:38 AM
I like him.

Think he's got all the attributes to be a really good player.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 05:48:34 PM
would help DCL alot if he had a proper number 9 to learn the game off of. but i guess Koemans expects him  to be Lukaku-esque. beat 3 men and score each time.. i feel sorry he does all the donkey work, hardly anyone is near him to support.. we have no creativity in the centre,. but yet Evertonians still blame DCL.

i guess you guys expexct him to be lukaku too.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 05:55:13 PM
would help DCL alot if he had a proper number 9 to learn the game off of. but i guess Koemans expects him  to be Lukaku-esque. beat 3 men and score each time.. i feel sorry he does all the donkey work, hardly anyone is near him to support.. we have no creativity in the centre,. but yet Evertonians still blame DCL.

i guess you guys expexct him to be lukaku too.

Blame him for what? Genuine question what do you think people are blaming him for?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 06:00:08 PM
Blame him for what? Genuine question what do you think people are blaming him for?

for being a shit striker.. not being good enough.. its not what i think people are blaming him for.. its that they have blamed him. poor lad probably doesnt know if he is playing left winger, right wing back or central striker..

DCL has skills, he has good technique, pretty good first touch, he just needs plays around him so he has someone to pass/help him.. Posters are moaning that he cant keep the ball, he has no one close enough to pass to, when he does the donkey work. no one is there.. be so different if he had a striker partner..

the system/formation doesnt make DCL look good, as i said previous post, Koeman expects DCL to be Lukaku v2.0.. our midfield is so far behind supporting DCL.. i guess thats what happens when you have 2 nullifying players in the middle..
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 06:20:00 PM
for being a shit striker.. not being good enough.. its not what i think people are blaming him for.. its that they have blamed him. poor lad probably doesnt know if he is playing left winger, right wing back or central striker..

DCL has skills, he has good technique, pretty good first touch, he just needs plays around him so he has someone to pass/help him.. Posters are moaning that he cant keep the ball, he has no one close enough to pass to, when he does the donkey work. no one is there.. be so different if he had a striker partner..

the system/formation doesnt make DCL look good, as i said previous post, Koeman expects DCL to be Lukaku v2.0.. our midfield is so far behind supporting DCL.. i guess thats what happens when you have 2 nullifying players in the middle..


You think he's currently good enough to lead the line for a team with ambitions to finish in the top 6. Not sure I'm "blaming him" for it but I absolutely don't think he currently is. You've obviously seen something I haven't

Kane, Sanchez, Lukaku, aguero, mane, morata. They are the forwards (well some of them) that play for the sides that finished last season above us. In fact I'd say probably almost every side in the league has a forward who's currently better. You genuinely don't think playing DCL almost all the time is 1 of our admittedly many problems??
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on October 21, 2017, 06:21:08 PM
Lads, stop with the shit straw man arguments.

No one expects him to be Lukaku, no one thinks he's as good as Harry Kane.

Painful to read this.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: pjk on October 21, 2017, 06:21:14 PM
DCL cost 1.5 mill and is 20 years of age. He's carrying the hopes of thousands of Evertonians and isn't ready to carry that burden in the prem. The team is not playing well, but no one, in general, can fault him for effort. He needs time to learn and improve. People being critical of his qualities should give the lad a break and take into account the form of the team and the level of expectations, that are being unfairly expressed here.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 06:22:30 PM

You think he's currently good enough to lead the line for a team with ambitions to finish in the top 6. Not sure I'm "blaming him" for it but I absolutely don't think he currently is. You've obviously seen something I haven't

Kane, Sanchez, Lukaku, aguero, mane, morata. They are the forwards (well some of them) that play for the sides that finished last season above us. In fact I'd say probably almost every side in the league has a forward who's currently better. You genuinely don't think playing DCL almost all the time is 1 of our admittedly many problems??

im not saying that. im saying that we have no one else who is a number 9.
Relying on a 20 year old. who is being played out of position with no support, is not his fault. thats down to the management for fucking up buying some strikers. He shouldnt be starting every game. but if he is, he needs people around him.

Every team in the league has a few strikers, apart from us. THAT IS NOT DCL'S  FAULT.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on October 21, 2017, 06:40:08 PM
Lads, stop with the shit straw man arguments.

No one expects him to be Lukaku, no one thinks he's as good as Harry Kane.

Painful to read this.

Right now I waould accept is he was the new JMM or Brian MacBride!
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: School of Science on October 21, 2017, 06:43:02 PM
Jesus the only thing I'm happy about this year is the young players, it's the older more experienced ones who are letting us down.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 06:44:58 PM
Lads, stop with the shit straw man arguments.

No one expects him to be Lukaku, no one thinks he's as good as Harry Kane.

Painful to read this.

He's currently not good enough. Who is he currently better than who's played similar minutes this season? I'm not blaming him but to suggest he's not 1 of our many problems is laughable

The lad has 1 league goal in how many games? Of course he's not helped by the shower of shit behind him but the shower of shit behind him aren't helped by him either

He may well be currently the worst regular starting striker in the league. I'm genuinely curious as to who's on the list of strikers we think he's currently better than.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 06:45:29 PM
Jesus the only thing I'm happy about this year is the young players, it's the older more experienced ones who are letting us down.

totally this.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 06:47:32 PM
He's currently not good enough. Who is he currently better than who's played similar minutes this season? I'm not blaming him but to suggest he's not 1 of our many problems is laughable

The lad has 1 league goal in how many games? Of course he's not helped by the shower of shit behind him but the shower of shit behind him aren't helped by him either

He may well be currently the worst regular starting striker in the league. I'm genuinely curious as to who's on the list of strikers we think he's currently better than.


if you've read. we all know he is better than none of them.

but that comes down to management for not buying a better striker.

which striker do we have that your think is better than dcl
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 06:48:22 PM
DCL cost 1.5 mill and is 20 years of age. He's carrying the hopes of thousands of Evertonians and isn't ready to carry that burden in the prem. The team is not playing well, but no one, in general, can fault him for effort. He needs time to learn and improve. People being critical of his qualities should give the lad a break and take into account the form of the team and the level of expectations, that are being unfairly expressed here.

See I don't think anyone is giving him a hard time. I'm not questioning his effort. I'm not questioning his value compared to what we paid. I'm openingly admitting I've no clue how to rate potential past current performances. All I'm saying is that currently he's nowhere near good enough to play regular premier league minutes. People seem to be arguing with me while in fact agreeing.
Not blaming the lad for anything but he's been no better and no worse than the rest of them which is pretty shit so far this season
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 06:49:55 PM
im not saying that. im saying that we have no one else who is a number 9.
Relying on a 20 year old. who is being played out of position with no support, is not his fault. thats down to the management for fucking up buying some strikers. He shouldnt be starting every game. but if he is, he needs people around him.

Every team in the league has a few strikers, apart from us. THAT IS NOT DCL'S  FAULT.


It's not Williams fault that we didn't sign pique. Who is blaming DCL for not signing a striker. I thought we were blaming a combination of Walsh koeman and or moshiri
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 21, 2017, 06:51:53 PM
also playing him in his preferred role would have helped his development...

lol at the williams comment...
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 06:53:11 PM

if you've read. we all know he is better than none of them.

but that comes down to management for not buying a better striker.

which striker do we have that your think is better than dcl


I don't think we have any strikers at all. That doesn't make DCL good enough. We seem to be arguing completely different things here while at the same time in complete agreement.

He's possibly the best forward we have (probably sandro who knows) he's also currently a bit shit.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: pjk on October 21, 2017, 06:54:19 PM
See I don't think anyone is giving him a hard time. I'm not questioning his effort. I'm not questioning his value compared to what we paid. I'm openingly admitting I've no clue how to rate potential past current performances. All I'm saying is that currently he's nowhere near good enough to play regular premier league minutes. People seem to be arguing with me while in fact agreeing.
Not blaming the lad for anything but he's been no better and no worse than the rest of them which is pretty shit so far this season



He does deserve more room than the out and out criticism that he's getting here. My post is a general post pointing this out. Not a post aimed at anyone in particular. The whole issue speaks for itself.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 06:59:16 PM


He does deserve more room than the out and out criticism that he's getting here. My post is a general post pointing this out. Not a post aimed at anyone in particular. The whole issue speaks for itself.

Of course he does he's young and not ready. I actually don't have much of a problem with any of them personally. Not being talented enough isn't a reason to dislike them. I have more of an issue with someone who doesn't try hard enough and I wouldn't level that at any of them
I do think people are making out his performances have been something they haven't. I do think there's a list of players who get blamed for being shit and then on top blamed for others being shit too. Personally at least this season they've all been shit together.

If we had to vote for player of the year now...... Pickford for being okay/ the rest wouldn't be worth a vote between them
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 21, 2017, 07:13:46 PM
Lads, stop with the shit straw man arguments.

No one expects him to be Lukaku, no one thinks he's as good as Harry Kane.

Painful to read this.

I canít see any way around this other than @Simon Paul (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1) deleting the entire forum.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 10:10:32 PM
Is this the Lukaku effect? Lukaku was shit, but at least he got goals type thing.

I don't get complaints about DCL finishing, he's been taking shots well and has been unlucky to not score off a limited number of chances.

But he looks calm, composed in front of goal, and when the goals and confidence comes, he'll be one of our best players. His inteliigence of movement compared to Niasse, Sandro, is day and night.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 21, 2017, 10:40:44 PM
Is this the Lukaku effect? Lukaku was shit, but at least he got goals type thing.

I don't get complaints about DCL finishing, he's been taking shots well and has been unlucky to not score off a limited number of chances.

But he looks calm, composed in front of goal, and when the goals and confidence comes, he'll be one of our best players. His inteliigence of movement compared to Niasse, Sandro, is day and night.


Sandro did score 16 goals in la liga.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 10:51:40 PM
Sandro did score 16 goals in la liga.

5 of those were free kicks, the rest he tended to use his pace to find space or opening, or he wellied it from around the box.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 21, 2017, 11:04:52 PM
DCL is far more aware of what's going on around him, and who's where. He almost a target man, he has pace, but he's operating as part of the team in a way that others only tend to do indirectly.

Niasse is direct and relentless a bit like Vardy, in terms of lots of graft and not many touches. A look through this season, he's pretty much the only player who is winning possession back in opponents half. But he's a head down and run type player and if someone comes into view, he'll see them.

With Sandro, I think it's about finding ways to utilise his pace. Defence splitting passes and using his pace to create space for others. He has a great touch and a superb technique for shooting, but he doesn't have a lot of time on the ball or retain possession in tight spaces.

DCL offers us the chance to build more well rounded attacks, as he can link up and chances created are more design than luck.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2017, 12:11:28 AM
https://twitter.com/EvertonNewsFeed/status/919618715775324163
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 22, 2017, 12:17:11 AM
I wonder why DCL and Sandro haven't been tried much together since every other combination of players has been tried. Could imagine them complementing her
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 12:26:31 AM
Is this the Lukaku effect? Lukaku was shit, but at least he got goals type thing.

I don't get complaints about DCL finishing, he's been taking shots well and has been unlucky to not score off a limited number of chances.

But he looks calm, composed in front of goal, and when the goals and confidence comes, he'll be one of our best players. His inteliigence of movement compared to Niasse, Sandro, is day and night.

DCL has scored 1 goal in almost 20 appearances. That isnít a statistic that brings confidence. It doesnít mean you write him off, but you donít build your attack around it either.

Lukaku wasnít shit.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 12:28:37 AM
How many goals do you think heíd get if he was used about the same amount over the course of the rest of the season?

I canít imagine anyone would say double figures.

Would anyone be confident saying more than 5?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on October 22, 2017, 12:31:30 AM
DCL has scored 1 goal in almost 20 appearances. That isn't a statistic that brings confidence. It doesn't mean you write him off, but you don't build your attack around it either.

Lukaku wasn't shit.
Well we cant build it round Rooney ..he goes awol all over the pitch  ,Sandro is a worse shout than DCL as he does most his best off the right wing ,who do you suggest Niasse ?.

Not being a twat just curious .
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2017, 12:32:02 AM
DCL has scored 1 goal in almost 20 appearances. That isnít a statistic that brings confidence. It doesnít mean you write him off, but you donít build your attack around it either.

Lukaku wasnít shit.

But weíre not building our attack round him are we, given heís played about 5 times as a centre forward and the rest out wide, either side, or wingback. 
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 12:44:24 AM
But weíre not building our attack round him are we, given heís played about 5 times as a centre forward and the rest out wide, either side, or wingback. 

Build the attack around him, or even have him as a regular starter, whatever the barometer my point is his stats donít back up having him anywhere near a regular starting berth of a side that is meant too have European ambitions. I feel I have to caveat this every time, that doesnít mean youíre writing him off but how anyone can really argue heís ready to be a starter based on 1 goal and 2 assists over the course of half a season of appearances is just bizarre.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 22, 2017, 12:46:19 AM
Build the attack around him, or even have him as a regular starter, whatever the barometer my point is his stats donít back up having him anywhere near a regular starting berth of a side that is meant too have European ambitions. I feel I have to caveat this every time, that doesnít mean youíre writing him off but how anyone can really argue heís ready to be a starter based on 1 goal and 2 assists over the course of half a season of appearances is just bizarre.

I think most would agree he shouldn't be starting near as much as he has but there's only Rooney who has looked capable of a goal so it's understandable why he has. It's no indictment of Calvert Lewin that he isn't doing much right now, it's a massive indictment of club and manager but I think we are agreeing on that.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 12:50:30 AM
DCL has scored 1 goal in almost 20 appearances. That isnít a statistic that brings confidence. It doesnít mean you write him off, but you donít build your attack around it either.

Lukaku wasnít shit.

That scoring record was mainly from playing out wide, and very few youngsters score prolifically from the off, you need the goals to build the confidence, not just personally, but in the players around. More others play with him, better supply will get and if DCL starts getting goals, players will look for him and trust him to finish.

Yeah, Lukaku wasn't shit, my point was the people who had a low opinion of him, are probably now baffled how we got worse.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 12:52:46 AM
Well we cant build it round Rooney ..he goes awol all over the pitch  ,Sandro is a worse shout than DCL as he does most his best off the right wing ,who do you suggest Niasse ?.

Not being a twat just curious .

We donít have much in the way of good options. Weíve totally shot ourselves in both feet by selling Lukaku without bringing in a replacement. Just staggering level of incompetence by all concerned. Tactics and man management aside our biggest f up was recruitment this summer.

The point of this is not who is better itís more is he good enough for what we need? Heís not ready yet for more than mostly cameos right now IMO. I think the stats back that up too. He had a man of the match performance versus Man City but itís been pretty sporadic other than that in terms of contribution. Given his age you have to expect that though.

I canít imagine many people donít want us to go buy a striker the second the window opens though. So that canít be too outlandish a sentiment. We canít hope to win many games if one of main attacking threats is putting up numbers like 1 goal in 20 with 2 assists. Lukaku has probably already scored more than he will over the entire season.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 22, 2017, 12:53:26 AM
I don't think DCL has confidence issues. If anything, that's one of his greatest strengths.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 12:54:10 AM
I think most would agree he shouldn't be starting near as much as he has but there's only Rooney who has looked capable of a goal so it's understandable why he has. It's no indictment of Calvert Lewin that he isn't doing much right now, it's a massive indictment of club and manager but I think we are agreeing on that.

Yep, absolutely. This isnít a situation he should have been put in, but we do need better options I believe to compete.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2017, 01:10:08 AM
Build the attack around him, or even have him as a regular starter, whatever the barometer my point is his stats donít back up having him anywhere near a regular starting berth of a side that is meant too have European ambitions. I feel I have to caveat this every time, that doesnít mean youíre writing him off but how anyone can really argue heís ready to be a starter based on 1 goal and 2 assists over the course of half a season of appearances is just bizarre.

Heís 20 and regularly asked to play in 2 or 3 different positions unfamiliar to his natural game. He shouldnít be getting judged on his strike rate, or even harshly judged at all given heís being shunted round so much. Especially in a team thatís creating so little, itís hardly Stuart Barlow levels for chances heís spurned.

Thereís very little point in critiquing any of these new or young players while the tactics, selections and formations are so random game after game.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 22, 2017, 01:28:33 AM
Heís 20 and regularly asked to play in 2 or 3 different positions unfamiliar to his natural game. He shouldnít be getting judged on his strike rate, or even harshly judged at all given heís being shunted round so much. Especially in a team thatís creating so little, itís hardly Stuart Barlow levels for chances heís spurned.

Thereís very little point in critiquing any of these new or young players while the tactics, selections and formations are so random game after game.


100% agreed.  I'm very impressed that the young man hasn't let his head hang down.  Showing great character, in my opinion.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 01:48:38 AM
Heís 20 and regularly asked to play in 2 or 3 different positions unfamiliar to his natural game. He shouldnít be getting judged on his strike rate, or even harshly judged at all given heís being shunted round so much. Especially in a team thatís creating so little, itís hardly Stuart Barlow levels for chances heís spurned.

Thereís very little point in critiquing any of these new or young players while the tactics, selections and formations are so random game after game.


It's not like there isn't sympathy for the position he's in but ultimately the PL is a very tough league if you're playing no matter your age be it on the older or younger end of the spectrum you get graded according to what is expected from a PL footballer. Once again, I'll stress that doesn't mean you write him off but it does mean he needs to contribute more be it goal scoring or assists to justify his place.

You may not want to judge him on scoring or assists but that's how this team will in large part be judged at the end of the season.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on October 22, 2017, 01:52:23 AM
Good graft fook all end product unfortunately.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2017, 02:20:31 AM
It's not like there isn't sympathy for the position he's in but ultimately the PL is a very tough league if you're playing no matter your age be it on the older or younger end of the spectrum you get graded according to what is expected from a PL footballer. Once again, I'll stress that doesn't mean you write him off but it does mean he needs to contribute more be it goal scoring or assists to justify his place.

You may not want to judge him on scoring or assists but that's how this team will in large part be judged at the end of the season.

So if Davies is dropped back into a defensive midfielder position with Schneiderlins injury and we keep on getting run through the middle heís next on the block?

Or if he he gets pushed out to wingback and doesnít create any chances and we keep on conceding?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 02:57:13 AM
So if Davies is dropped back into a defensive midfielder position with Schneiderlins injury and we keep on getting run through the middle heís next on the block?

Or if he he gets pushed out to wingback and doesnít create any chances and we keep on conceding?

Well yes, if he's getting picked to play a position and he can't do it then...yes he shouldn't get picked for that position. There would be no point knocking the confidence of the player and/or hurting the team. If DCL can't adequately contribute in any position other than no.9 then no he shouldn't be in the lineup aside from that position. IF he can't contribute enough in that no.9 position, then he should be on the bench. If he repeatedly doesn't make an impact when he comes on from the bench, maybe he'd be better off going out on loan.

Doesn't mean there any extenuating circumstances but if a player isn't contributing in a position he shouldn't be played there.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheTone on October 22, 2017, 03:01:24 AM
just shouldn't be starting at this level yet, doing his best like, I think he'll be decent when he fills out, just hope all this shit we're going through doesn't ruin him

did he really break up with that bird? if so then that's a positive , she's no good for any mans career
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueForYou on October 22, 2017, 04:21:25 PM
At 20, he's easily old enough to play at this level - but he's not up there with the exceptional Rashford..................... .......yet

Keep playing him
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 22, 2017, 04:33:45 PM
I don't think you can judge him given the shambles of a team he is in at the minute . No pace and no creativity across the middle or on the wings so how exactly is he meant to make an impact ?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 05:13:57 PM
I do think he'll be capable of 15-25 goals in future seasons. Depending on service

Would expect somewhere nearer 8-10 goals this season. But he'll improve, get more goals as season goes on, service improves.

Lukaku only got 10 goals the season we paid £28m for him. And he had lot more experience at same age.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 22, 2017, 06:46:25 PM





class.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 22, 2017, 06:56:22 PM
you can hate even more  :D

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on October 22, 2017, 07:21:47 PM
I do think he'll be capable of 15-25 goals in future seasons. Depending on service

Would expect somewhere nearer 8-10 goals this season. But he'll improve, get more goals as season goes on, service improves.

Lukaku only got 10 goals the season we paid £28m for him. And he had lot more experience at same age.
Gotta be honest I haven't seen anything to suggest he 'll reach anywhere near that level.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:41:24 PM
Heís garbage - the new Cadamarteri minus the goals
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2017, 09:42:03 PM
He was good today.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:47:37 PM
He was good today.

I think heís overrated and nowhere near good enough
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on October 22, 2017, 09:48:44 PM
Heís garbage - the new Cadamarteri minus the goals

You're garbage. The new Cadamarteri of the comment section.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 22, 2017, 09:49:07 PM
He was good today.

Was he. I think he's getting a completely free pass because the rest of them are shite: couple of bits of clever play here and there to win throw ins that was about his limit. When did they become good?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 22, 2017, 09:49:35 PM
He was good today.
At what?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 09:50:00 PM
I think heís overrated and nowhere near good enough

That's pretty consistent with your view of every player, so think we'll put that in the unsurprising pile.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:50:03 PM
You're garbage. The new Cadamarteri of the comment section.

Weíre not here to discuss me & that was poor btw
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:51:10 PM
That's pretty consistent with your view of every player, so think we'll put that in the unsurprising pile.

Incorrect, who else have I called overrated?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2017, 09:51:31 PM
I think heís overrated and nowhere near good enough

That's because you're a reactionary simpleton mate.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:53:00 PM
That's because you're a reactionary simpleton mate.

Thatís your opinion it doesnít matter to me
If you think Calvert Lewin is good then quite frankly youíre stupid
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: hill135 on October 22, 2017, 09:53:56 PM
Oh my god ban this fucking wum already.

He relishes us being this shite.

I know it's poor forum etiquette for me to say it but everyone on here is thinking it!
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 09:53:56 PM
Incorrect, who else have I called overrated?

Don't know, I generally don't pay much attention.

But only recall you complaining about anyone and everything
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 22, 2017, 09:55:00 PM
Thatís your opinion it doesnít matter to me
If you think Calvert Lewin is good then quite frankly youíre stupid

Ha. Losing your head you dopey prick.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:55:56 PM
Oh my god ban this fucking wum already.

He relishes us being this shite.

I know it's poor forum etiquette for me to say it but everyone on here is thinking it!

 :'(
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 09:57:01 PM
Ha. Losing your head you dopey prick.

Not @ all Bob Zopiclone, Iím just having a debate. So go an bore someone else
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 22, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
Oh my god ban this fucking wum already.

He relishes us being this shite.

I know it's poor forum etiquette for me to say it but everyone on here is thinking it!

Literally the shittest poster Iíve had the displeasure of reading posts from in nearly ten years. Horrendous opinions and puts them across like a right cunt.

He makes this place far less enjoyable. Just waiting for us to lose and then jumps on his soap box. The dopey prick.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 22, 2017, 09:58:16 PM
Not @ all Bob Zopiclone, Iím just having a debate. So go an bore someone else

Nah, youíre just a bad dopey prick who trolls to the max but is too dopey to cleverly disguise it.

Probably the shittest poster that Iíve ever seen on here.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on October 22, 2017, 10:01:15 PM
All bickering aside I don't think dcl would get into any other prem team atm. On that basis he shouldn't be in ours and I feel that we have tended toboveraye what he brings to the table....i mean his goals/assists ratio per game played must be horrific.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: hill135 on October 22, 2017, 10:02:32 PM
Literally the shittest poster Iíve had the displeasure of reading posts from in nearly ten years. Horrendous opinions and puts them across like a right cunt.

He makes this place far less enjoyable. Just waiting for us to lose and then jumps on his soap box. The dopey prick.

Completely agree. Some stiff competition but definitely up there with the worst.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:03:30 PM
Nah, youíre just a bad dopey prick who trolls to the max but is too dopey to cleverly disguise it.

Probably the shittest poster that Iíve ever seen on here.

Iím not trolling Iím giving my opinion on Calvert Lewin - no different to anyone else giving their opinion but you take exception to mine - why? Weirdo
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 22, 2017, 10:04:10 PM
Iím not trolling Iím giving my opinion on Calvert Lewin - no different to anyone else giving their opinion but you take exception to mine - why? Weirdo

Youíre getting a reaction, what more do you want?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:05:32 PM
Youíre getting a reaction, what more do you want?
You didnít answer my question - Iím giving my opinion & other people are giving theirs, so why did you take exception to mine?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:09:15 PM
Completely agree. Some stiff competition but definitely up there with the worst.

Dry your eyes mate
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 10:11:48 PM
But just saying I think he's shit, is pointless, its like a little Britain sketch. Well done, have a cookie, thanks for the input.

You'll probably get more anger because of how shit we played. And not sure why you have such pessimistic view, so hope you just take moment to chill and maybe step away, or tone it down a little.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Trublue on October 22, 2017, 10:12:03 PM
I thing DCL is doing a great job. We're asking a kid to do a man's job, in a poor team against better players. He did a good job of holding the ball up. To moan about him is stupid.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 10:12:15 PM
He was decent...but ultimately lacking in end product again. Heís kinda floating through games, slightly, just slightly like Rodwell did.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: pjk on October 22, 2017, 10:14:22 PM
You're playing with peoples feelings when they're at a low ebb. That's pretty cowardly. It's even worse when your sense of sadistic gratification comes flowing out. That's when you start twisting the knife like some inadequate sexual pervert. Give yourself a break and go somewhere where you are appreciated. It's not here, that's unequivocal.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 22, 2017, 10:15:28 PM
He has moments of good play. Holds it up well here or there. Battles and wins a throw or corner. Ultimately that doesn't add up to a decent performance though
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on October 22, 2017, 10:16:18 PM
One of the very few again who stood up to be counted along side Vlasic two of the best easily today ...anyone thinking otherwise needs to give their head a wobble.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 22, 2017, 10:16:21 PM
You didnít answer my question - Iím giving my opinion & other people are giving theirs, so why did you take exception to mine?

Took exception to @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) too. But thatís neither here nor there. Sometimes dopey pricks need to be told theyíre being a dopey prick.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 10:16:26 PM
I thing DCL is doing a great job. We're asking a kid to do a man's job, in a poor team against better players. He did a good job of holding the ball up. To moan about him is stupid.

Youíre kinda contradicting yourself though. Youíre basically saying yourself heís been asked to do a job that is a bit beyond him at this stage in his development, ergo heís not ready. We can say heís doing the best he can, but that doesnít mean he should be in the side.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: dazfrancis on October 22, 2017, 10:18:44 PM
You're kinda contradicting yourself though. You're basically saying yourself he's been asked to do a job that is a bit beyond him at this stage in his development, ergo he's not ready. We can say he's doing the best he can, but that doesn't mean he should be in the side.
But who else from the current squad would you have in the side in front of him?

Niasse?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 10:19:23 PM
I think he still feels like a young player, and he'll take more authority and demand ball more as he grows into team.

Lukaku aside, I think he's potentially best forward we've had in PL. He has everything you want from a forward, and goals will come with good chances
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
I thing DCL is doing a great job. We're asking a kid to do a man's job, in a poor team against better players. He did a good job of holding the ball up. To moan about him is stupid.

If youíre good enough youíre old enough, heís not premiership standard
Sorry if all the sensitive forumers donít like my views
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:20:12 PM
Took exception to @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) too. But thatís neither here nor there. Sometimes dopey pricks need to be told theyíre being a dopey prick.

Weird man
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 22, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
Took exception to @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) too. But thatís neither here nor there. Sometimes dopey pricks need to be told theyíre being a dopey prick.

Yeah I'm deeply unpopular too. I think people like someone to pin their hopes to and I'm a miserable cunt.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 22, 2017, 10:24:02 PM
Depressing is the word
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2017, 10:25:23 PM
But who else from the current squad would you have in the side in front of him?

Niasse?

Amazingly, thatís about all we have. Plus as much as Iíve hated the idea in the past (for very good reason) a more senior player like Mirallas miiiigght give us something too. Again, I donít think DCL has been bad, itís just not particularly effective at this point.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: boothill on October 22, 2017, 10:46:17 PM
If youíre good enough youíre old enough, heís not premiership standard
Sorry if all the sensitive forumers donít like my views
no one is premiership standard if their getting no service, and he's getting zilch at the mo, he shouldnt be compared to lukaku either, he was an absolute freak of nature for his age and intimidated the defenders around him with pace and power, and could actually create chances for himself, put 2 or 3 stone on dcl and hope that he keep his pace with it, then we will have another beast
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 10:54:35 PM
no one is premiership standard if their getting no service, and he's getting zilch at the mo, he shouldnt be compared to lukaku either, he was an absolute freak of nature for his age and intimidated the defenders around him with pace and power, and could actually create chances for himself, put 2 or 3 stone on dcl and hope that he keep his pace with it, then we will have another beast

And learn him how to finish? And get assists? And hold play up?
Pointless saying well if he had this or that etc - he hasnít, heís poor
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Gash on October 22, 2017, 11:03:00 PM
Heís garbage - the new Cadamarteri minus the goals

I'm starting to get firmly onboard with the shouts that you're just a troll. Literally every post you make is to get a reaction out of people. Despite what you claim it isn't "just telling it how it is" it's just being a troll.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Realist on October 22, 2017, 11:09:39 PM
I'm starting to get firmly onboard with the shouts that you're just a troll. Literally every post you make is to get a reaction out of people. Despite what you claim it isn't "just telling it how it is" it's just being a troll.

Itís my opinion - arenít I entitled to one?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on October 22, 2017, 11:10:56 PM
It's my opinion - aren't I entitled to one?

Please just keep it to one tho. This is the one.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: boothill on October 22, 2017, 11:47:07 PM
And learn him how to finish? And get assists? And hold play up?
Pointless saying well if he had this or that etc - he hasnít, heís poor
that all comes with confidence and experience, being verbally destroyed by people no were near his level wont help, probably wont arse him either like, remember hes been pushed up as the focal point in a very poor team at the moment, he will gain from this, the sharps,heaths,grays, johnstons and lukakus all had lean spells and came very good
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 22, 2017, 11:53:51 PM
that all comes with confidence and experience, being verbally destroyed by people no were near his level wont help, probably wont arse him either like, remember hes been pushed up as the focal point in a very poor team at the moment, he will gain from this, the sharps,heaths,grays, johnstons and lukakus all had lean spells and came very good

Being verbally destroyed by people nowhere near his level? Firstly verbally destroyed is a little ott and secondly these people nowhere near his level? Is that us the fans. Are you suggesting we should think every professional footballer is unbelievable because they are all infinitely better than us. Might as well shut the forum now non of us are entitled to an opinion on anything because the team the manager and the board are all better than us
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: boothill on October 23, 2017, 12:00:20 AM
Being verbally destroyed by people nowhere near his level? Firstly verbally destroyed is a little ott and secondly these people nowhere near his level? Is that us the fans. Are you suggesting we should think every professional footballer is unbelievable because they are all infinitely better than us. Might as well shut the forum now non of us are entitled to an opinion on anything because the team the manager and the board are all better than us
how can someone say a PROFESSIONAL premiership footballer is rubbish when they are not at that level or never have been at that level before, criticize and have an opinion by all means, but to call them crap is a bit daft
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Simon Paul on October 23, 2017, 12:01:42 AM
thought he did OK today despite being horribly isolated most of the game

showed some good hold-up play a few times but he needs some confidence
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 23, 2017, 12:02:53 AM
thought he did OK today despite being horribly isolated most of the game

showed some good hold-up play a few times but he needs some confidence

This could apply to pretty much all of the team
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: everton1952 on October 23, 2017, 12:03:45 AM
DCL was not poor today. He did OK with nobody around him to assist. Not saying he will ever make a decent striker, but there are some good aspects to his play. Admittedly the chances of him actually scoring a goal are remote.   
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 12:07:54 AM
how can someone say a PROFESSIONAL premiership footballer is rubbish when they are not at that level or never have been at that level before, criticize and have an opinion by all means, but to call them crap is a bit daft

I think it means crap compared to the average premiership footballer. Not crap compared to me. By your thinking they are all utterly brilliant. Which of course they are compared to the average man on the street who would die if he had to run about for 90 minutes
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: boothill on October 23, 2017, 12:13:49 AM
I think it means crap compared to the average premiership footballer. Not crap compared to me. By your thinking they are all utterly brilliant. Which of course they are compared to the average man on the street who would die if he had to run about for 90 minutes
possibly utterly brilliant at football yes, probably shite at nursing or joinery, and i'd die if i had to run around for 25 minutes now
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 23, 2017, 12:23:55 AM
Bizarre the criticising of Calvert Lewin seemingly above all other young players. What's Davies doing? Where is his thread?

The young players have all shown decent periods of promise they aren't the weakness in this squad
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Terry from Town on October 23, 2017, 12:26:38 AM
Calvert Lewis is a really good young player, heís been unexpectedly thrust into the first team but he will be a great player in a few years
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 12:29:29 AM
Bizarre the criticising of Calvert Lewin seemingly above all other young players. What's Davies doing? Where is his thread?

The young players have all shown decent periods of promise they aren't the weakness in this squad

I think Davies has shown an awful lot more to date. People are saying DCL had a good game when he battles to win a few throw ins. I know he's not helped by anyone else but he's not been good. Davies hasn't either but weve seen much better from him last season. I genuinely not convinced DCL will be a premier league football in the long term
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 23, 2017, 12:31:58 AM
I think Davies has shown an awful lot more to date. People are saying DCL had a good game when he battles to win a few throw ins. I know he's not helped by anyone else but he's not been good. Davies hasn't either but weve seen much better from him last season. I genuinely not convinced DCL will be a premier league football in the long term

I think Davies performances last season were overrated almost as much as Calvert Lewins now. Every young player who has some sort of decent spell is hailed as superb. They are set up to fail
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 12:49:02 AM
I think Davies performances last season were overrated almost as much as Calvert Lewins now. Every young player who has some sort of decent spell is hailed as superb. They are set up to fail

I don't think Davies was brilliant either but he looked a decent premier league player in longish spells and he's only young. That's reason for optimism. I'm not sure DCL has looked that. I think it's almost just accepted he is and what we see is down to everyone else
If I'd said this in the summer a lot would have agreed with me. His stock seems to have risen greatly on account of being a tryer and us being shit
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on October 23, 2017, 12:49:34 AM
He held the ball up well and worked hard today, i dont think there was much more he could have done and i think taking him off was a mistake.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 23, 2017, 12:53:25 AM
Calvert Lewis is a really good young player, heís been unexpectedly thrust into the first team but he will be a great player in a few years
No he won't be maybe ok but certainly will not be great.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 23, 2017, 01:14:07 AM
None of us actually know there are plenty of examples of good strikers becoming goalscorers late and there are just as many who don't go on and progress. For every Drogba there's an Anichebe
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 01:31:05 AM
thought he did OK today despite being horribly isolated most of the game

showed some good hold-up play a few times but he needs some confidence

He needs some help, a few steak dinners and a rest every now and then. Been asked to do the job of two men the past week.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 01:32:41 AM
None of us actually know there are plenty of examples of good strikers becoming goalscorers late and there are just as many who don't go on and progress. For every Drogba there's an Anichebe

Must be a 100 more anichebes than drogbas. So by the law of averages.... he's probably gonna be more anichebe
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blue slug on October 23, 2017, 01:44:12 AM
Hard to judge anyone at the minute with koeman in charge
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on October 23, 2017, 01:50:13 AM
how can someone say a PROFESSIONAL premiership footballer is rubbish when they are not at that level or never have been at that level before, criticize and have an opinion by all means, but to call them crap is a bit daft
Probably could've been pele himself if it wasn't for a bum knee.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 01:59:06 AM
Must be a 100 more anichebes than drogbas. So by the law of averages.... he's probably gonna be more anichebe

With those kind of arguments it's a wonder anyone bothers being a professional footballer.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 02:23:16 AM
With those kind of arguments it's a wonder anyone bothers being a professional footballer.

Well he's probably already a millionaire too as probably is anichebe
I'm not even talking about starting out. People point to drogba and Kane as late developers as if to make an argument for every young player who's not doing that well. The point is they are very unusual. Good players are normally good players at every level as they come up.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BatteredCornerFlag on October 23, 2017, 02:35:00 AM
Thought DCL showed some good touches today. I'd like to see him play with Lookman more or as part of a front 2.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 04:40:07 AM
Good players are normally good players at every level as they come up.

Yes, they score in the World Cup finals of their age group for example.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Coyb12 on October 23, 2017, 04:42:28 AM
Thought DCL showed some good touches today. I'd like to see him play with Lookman more or as part of a front 2.
The only time you will see them as a front 2 would be in the championship.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Trublue on October 23, 2017, 04:43:35 AM
If youíre good enough youíre old enough, heís not premiership standard
Sorry if all the sensitive forumers donít like my views

I agree we need someone better, but guess what, we haven't got anyone.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on October 23, 2017, 04:44:07 AM
Yes, they score in the World Cup finals of their age group for example.

Well said that man. Dealt with a cretinous argument in no uncertain terms.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 04:46:27 AM
If youíre good enough youíre old enough, heís not premiership standard
Sorry if all the sensitive forumers donít like my views

Nah, we just think you're either a genuine idiot or a troll. Either way you're not NSNO standard. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 04:49:06 AM
Yes, they score in the World Cup finals of their age group for example.

Isn't the reality that you only play for the under20s cos you're not good enough for the under 21s. Look we go round and round in circles with all this. I see a player who's future lies in the championship and most see someone who will score between 15-25 goals in the top flight and be a great player. I hope I'm wrong. Only time will tell
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 04:51:04 AM
Isn't the reality that you only play for the under20s cos you're not good enough for the under 21s. Look we go round and round in circles with all this. I see a player who's future lies in the championship and most see someone who will score between 15-25 goals in the top flight and be a great player. I hope I'm wrong. Only time will tell

Literally nobody is saying that. You've just built yourself a straw man and you're busy bashing it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: bluestevie on October 23, 2017, 04:51:35 AM
Nah, we just think you're either a genuine idiot or a troll. Either way you're not NSNO standard. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

He's sitting on the £1300 he won betting big against the club he supposedly supports, doubt he cares much
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on October 23, 2017, 04:51:48 AM
Isn't the reality that you only play for the under20s cos you're not good enough for the under 21s. Look we go round and round in circles with all this. I see a player who's future lies in the championship and most see someone who will score between 15-25 goals in the top flight and be a great player. I hope I'm wrong. Only time will tell

No, YOU are going round in circles, talking utter drivel.

Everyone else is dealing with your moronic comments quite nicely as far as I can see.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 04:52:56 AM
Isn't the reality that you only play for the under20s cos you're not good enough for the under 21s. Look we go round and round in circles with all this. I see a player who's future lies in the championship and most see someone who will score between 15-25 goals in the top flight and be a great player. I hope I'm wrong. Only time will tell

I think youíre a little confused pal. Maybe youíve had a few I donít know but you seem to be creating and then arguing against yourself.

Letís just see how the lad gets on hey.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 04:53:16 AM
He's sitting on the £1300 he won betting big against the club he supposedly supports, doubt he cares much

Oh, I'm sure he does. He wouldn't keep coming back and attempt some sock puppeting if he didn't.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 04:53:45 AM
Literally nobody is saying that. You've just built yourself a straw man and you're busy bashing it.

Literally someone said that exact line. So literally it's been said I think today. Lots and lots of people say he's going to be a great player.

We could argue this for the next year. It's not going to conclude until we are remotely decent and then see if he's playing and contributing. I can't be arsed with it anymore
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 04:55:01 AM
Literally someone said that exact line. So literally it's been said I think today. Lots and lots of people say he's going to be a great player.

Okay, I'm sure you can quote that post then. And of course all the others, since you're talking about lots and lots of people.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 04:55:09 AM
No, YOU are going round in circles, talking utter drivel.

Everyone else is dealing with your moronic comments quite nicely as far as I can see.

People are allowed not to rate him. He's got 1 goal in something like 20 games and we aren't allowed to question if this is his level?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 04:57:09 AM
Okay, I'm sure you can quote that post then. And of course all the others, since you're talking about lots and lots of people.

I figured it was pretty widely held view on here that he was a top prospect. I thought that was what you were saying to be honest. Am I wrong
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on October 23, 2017, 04:58:32 AM
People are allowed not to rate him. He's got 1 goal in something like 20 games and we aren't allowed to question if this is his level?

It's just an incredibly weird, brainless thing to fixate on. He's doing a thankless task game after game, as a kid, in a shambolic team. He's clearly a good player with loads of potential.

Use your fucking brain.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 05:01:49 AM
It's just an incredibly weird, brainless thing to fixate on. He's doing a thankless task game after game, as a kid, in a shambolic team. He's clearly a good player with loads of potential.

Use your fucking brain.

I'm not fixated on it. People keep pointing out I think most of them are shit. Pretending he played well cos he won a few throws just isn't for me. I really don't know what's people's issue is. I concede perhaps I'm wrong and people are calling me a moron cos I suggest a striker with 1 goal in 20 games might not turn out very good.
Whatever. Think I'm the only 1 not getting upset. Well me and DCL. I doubt he gives a shit what I think either
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 05:07:02 AM
I concede perhaps I'm wrong and people are calling me a moron cos I suggest a striker with 1 goal in 20 games might not turn out very good.

No, people are calling you a moron because you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge anything apart from that one thing. Like the fact that for most of those games he was playing out wide. Or that for most games his job is basically chasing down lost causes and wild hoofs.

In other words, you're fixated on it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on October 23, 2017, 05:09:51 AM
Anyone else see his touch in the first half when he plucked pickfords kick from the sky?

The lads got it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on October 23, 2017, 05:14:19 AM
Anyone else see his touch in the first half when he plucked pickfords kick from the sky?

The lads got it.

Or the little touch around Kolasinac, before he drilled a cross in low. Lovely stuff.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 05:15:17 AM
Anyone else see his touch in the first half when he plucked pickfords kick from the sky?

The lads got it.

Exactly. He's got a good touch, good movement, good pace and is a decent finisher (though that last bit you rarely see, given that we hardly ever create any chances nowadays).

He's lacking in some areas and he clearly isn't good enough to single-handedly win games for us. But he's more than good enough to be in the squad and given playing time.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 05:15:28 AM
No, people are calling you a moron because you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge anything apart from that one thing. Like the fact that for most of those games he was playing out wide. Or that for most games his job is basically chasing down lost causes and wild hoofs.

In other words, you're fixated on it.

I accept all of that. He's still done very little in almost every game. No one particularly rated him a year ago and now they do cos he's struggling in a struggling team. Whatever. It's really not worth getting upset about. I'm not overly impressed. Most are. Who cares. Really don't know what I've said that would upset people who've never met the lad so much.
Christ people werent any more upset by someone's suggestion that koeman should kill himself

Let's just leave it here. It's not worth the name calling and falling out. I'll even talk him up if it helps.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on October 23, 2017, 05:15:47 AM
Just shown a graphic on MOTD with him surrounded by 4 defenders and the nearest Everton player was 45 yards further back.

The picture said a thousand words.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 05:17:07 AM
Christ people werent any more upset by someone's suggestion that koeman should kill himself

(https://blacklabellogic.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/strawman.jpg)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 05:19:39 AM
(https://blacklabellogic.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/strawman.jpg)

Let it go it's over. Fuck me literally all I said was I didn't think he was very good. Baffled as to why you'd even care.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: pjk on October 23, 2017, 05:20:36 AM
(https://blacklabellogic.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/strawman.jpg)



 ;D
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Major Clanger on October 23, 2017, 05:21:42 AM
Let it go it's over. Fuck me literally all I said was I didn't think he was very good. Baffled as to why you'd even care.

Because you care enough to post it. Over and over again. So clearly this is something of utmost importance to you. And therefore I think it would be rude to just ignore something that you're clearly so passionate about.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 23, 2017, 05:26:57 AM
Because you care enough to post it. Over and over again. So clearly this is something of utmost importance to you. And therefore I think it would be rude to just ignore something that you're clearly so passionate about.

It's an Everton forum. On the DCL thread. I assumed that's what we were meant to do. As for over and over again. I repeatedly keep trying to get out of the conversation now. Strangely your just too offended to let it go. Do I need to apologise or something. Would that help? I really didn't want to fall out with you over something so minor.

Why don't you police the Williams thread with such vigor? Much worse is said in there.

Can we just agree to disagree. Who cares what I think. I thought Martinez was a great appointment. Of course you're probably right.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Brownie on October 23, 2017, 05:32:59 AM
Anyone else see his touch in the first half when he plucked pickfords kick from the sky?

The lads got it.

There was a similar one the other week - can't remember who against.

The lad has got skill and I'm sure we will see the best of him once he's been given the time to develop properly
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: pjk on October 23, 2017, 05:39:28 AM
There was a similar one the other week - can't remember who against.

The lad has got skill and I'm sure we will see the best of him once he's been given the time to develop properly



That's the issue. He needs time.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 23, 2017, 06:52:43 AM
Because you care enough to post it. Over and over again. So clearly this is something of utmost importance to you. And therefore I think it would be rude to just ignore something that you're clearly so passionate about.

Forgetting the above.

Ideally DCL would be getting sporadic game time as a sub during a decent amount of games this season. At least thatís where Iíd put his development and the amount of responsibility we should be giving him. Probably Sandro too for that matter.

Would you see his best use as anything other than that?

Now thatís not the luxury we have of course, but say we signed Giroud nobody would keep DCL as our starting CF would we? At least for most games.

There seems to be some weird arguments floating around. Heís got potential to be a good PL striker but there can be a distinction that he might not be what we need in this particular moment in a struggling side.

Surely most people would want us to bring in a striker day one of the January window opening?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
Just shown a graphic on MOTD with him surrounded by 4 defenders and the nearest Everton player was 45 yards further back.

The picture said a thousand words.

This is the issue I have with Sigurdsson. He was bought as our attacking No 10, the man who would be central to everything we did offensively. Sometimes I hardly notice he's playing. I don't care whether he's being asked to play slightly wider than normal he should still be putting in a shift to get close to the striker but he rarely breaks into a sweat.
I've given Koeman enough pelters about all number of things but the players shouldn't be getting away scot free in all of this. The performances they have put in have been shocking.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 23, 2017, 06:27:20 PM
Just shown a graphic on MOTD with him surrounded by 4 defenders and the nearest Everton player was 45 yards further back.

The picture said a thousand words.

Been saying that a while. Lukaku last season was 40 yards away from the midfield.. but he's Lukaku..

Seriously how the fuck could the manager keep this system/play this way.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2017, 06:42:44 PM
We signed about 4 No 10's to specifically make sure this type of thing never happened.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ridge on October 25, 2017, 12:04:42 PM
One of the things people don't realise is DCL is Unsworth's player. Knew him from Sheff U, gave him first pro contract.

Convinced the club to buy him and him to join us, despite other interest.

DCL is going to play, get better service and has manager who knows how to get best out of him now.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on October 29, 2017, 11:58:42 PM
This continued reliance on DCL is just insanity at this point.

While there are certainly a whole heap of issues to deal with, the striking position is the biggest single issue in the whole squad right now. He doesn't score and doesn't help us build up any sort of an attack.

The biggest difference between this season and last season is replacing a capable striker with one that isn't ready for the PL. This doesn't mean it's his fault per se, but I'm staggered if people still think he belongs in a team that's either in a relegation fight or having far higher aspirations than that.

Shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI.

Desperately need a new striker January 1st. Probably a couple for that matter.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 12:01:39 AM
He doesnt do anything. Even when talking about his good moments its clever hold up play that wins us a throw. Im not blaming the lad but hes clearly not currently good enough. He simply wouldnt start for any other side in the league. Niasse whos clearly lacking in real quality is currently a much bigger threat. Id sooner play Rooney up top or even Mirallas.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 30, 2017, 12:05:52 AM
No player with a fractured whatever he has right now at his stage in his career should be expected to play every game.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on October 30, 2017, 12:07:01 AM
No player with a fractured whatever he has right now at his stage in his career should be expected to play every game.
He needs to come out of the team as we need to try something else against Watford.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on October 30, 2017, 12:07:49 AM
Might as well go Moyesesque and 4-6-0 it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: boothill on October 30, 2017, 12:10:52 AM
Might as well go Moyesesque and 4-6-0 it.
Certainly got enough No.10s to do it
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on October 30, 2017, 12:15:14 AM
Give Sandro a run, can't be worse at least he has shots ...no matter how wayward row z they might be .
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 20, 2018, 06:16:55 PM
Letís discuss how boss DCL is.

Really canít grt my head round how some donít fancy him.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 20, 2018, 06:18:52 PM
Letís discuss how boss DCL is.

Really canít grt my head round how some donít fancy him.

With you all the way on this.

I'm not sticking around in this thread though. @Confucius (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=196) and @KoemansNumberTens (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) are going to make me break things.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on August 20, 2018, 06:22:26 PM
The jury is still be out on him and rightly so. There's potential there and a lot of upside but he's going to find this season a lot tougher with more competition for places. I think he'll struggle for regular game time myself.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: nsno on August 20, 2018, 06:24:41 PM
The jury is still be out on him and rightly so. There's potential there and a lot of upside but he's going to find this season a lot tougher with more competition for places. I think he'll struggle for regular game time myself.
I can see him loaned out in January once Bernard is up to full fitness. A club like Leeds would suit him down to the ground
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 20, 2018, 06:48:40 PM
The jury is still be out on him and rightly so. There's potential there and a lot of upside but he's going to find this season a lot tougher with more competition for places. I think he'll struggle for regular game time myself.

As long as he continues to struggle to score he aint gonna get anywhere as a striker at this level.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 20, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
I think heís a good acid test for how well someone gets footy.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 20, 2018, 07:10:55 PM
I can see him loaned out in January once Bernard is up to full fitness.

You're either confusing DCL's position here, or Bernards, or both?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 20, 2018, 07:27:56 PM
Letís give him at least a few games under the new manager before we write him off
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 20, 2018, 07:57:42 PM
Love him. Kidís gonna make a ruckus.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 20, 2018, 08:02:17 PM
Every time I see him he looks physically more impressive.

Think you could swap him out for Tosun and barely disrupt the plan because his link up is so good, but physically he might even be better (and this is since Iím more bought-in to Tosun than ever btw).

Then you could swap out Walcott or Richarlison for him and he would hold his own as an outlet.

Really exciting young player, hope he gets serious minutes this year.

You donít really get players able to play wide who are good in the air, good technically and 6 foot plus - thereís probably like 3 in the prem and we have two of em.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on August 20, 2018, 08:06:03 PM
Every time I see him he looks physically more impressive.

Think you could swap him out for Tosun and barely disrupt the plan because his link up is so good, but physically he might even be better (and this is since Iím more bought-in to Tosun than ever btw).

Then you could swap out Walcott or Richarlison for him and he would hold his own as an outlet.

Really exciting young player, hope he gets serious minutes this year.

You donít really get players able to play wide who are good in the air, good technically and 6 foot plus - thereís probably like 3 in the prem and we have two of em.
Blimey you proper rate him mate. I certainly get the whole interchangeable point but just don't see him stepping up his finishing to ever be a viable starting option for us. I am often wrong however !
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 20, 2018, 08:17:13 PM
Not good enough and never will be. The hype on here about him is extremely odd. I genuinely donít know a single non Everton fan who thinks heís remotely good
Heíll end up playing at a lower level than where we are and the ďyou donít understand footballsĒ will be replaced with ďyou wanted him to failsĒ
Not our Harry Kane. Not even as good as niasse
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 20, 2018, 08:18:02 PM
<breaks everything>
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 20, 2018, 08:28:15 PM
You have to say his finishing is suspect, but it will be nice to see him in a team that creates chances like Saturday, rather than Koeman and big Sam kick and rush shite.

P.s - usual xg spiel I give here re: his goals, assists and xg in his first year.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on August 20, 2018, 08:52:41 PM
You have to say his finishing is suspect, but it will be nice to see him in a team that creates chances like Saturday, rather than Koeman and big Sam kick and rush shite.

P.s - usual xg spiel I give here re: his goals, assists and xg in his first year.
Although I don't rate him definately a valid point regarding him having nowt to work with when in the team.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Goaljira on August 20, 2018, 08:55:51 PM
Every time I see him he looks physically more impressive.

I thought both him and Holgate looked on Saturday like they'd filled out over the summer.  Either that or this seasons shirts are narrower.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 20, 2018, 09:02:14 PM
Rate him.

Improved massively over the last 18 months.

Canít wait to see the player he could potentially become playing an a more progressive side.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 20, 2018, 09:12:06 PM
Still just needs to find the right pie shop
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: D15TIN on August 20, 2018, 09:25:01 PM
Blimey you proper rate him mate. I certainly get the whole interchangeable point but just don't see him stepping up his finishing to ever be a viable starting option for us. I am often wrong however !
Cant teach how to finish, either got it or not
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: D15TIN on August 20, 2018, 09:26:59 PM
Every time I see him he looks physically more impressive.

Think you could swap him out for Tosun and barely disrupt the plan because his link up is so good, but physically he might even be better (and this is since Iím more bought-in to Tosun than ever btw).

Then you could swap out Walcott or Richarlison for him and he would hold his own as an outlet.

Really exciting young player, hope he gets serious minutes this year.

You donít really get players able to play wide who are good in the air, good technically and 6 foot plus - thereís probably like 3 in the prem and we have two of em.
nowhere near Walcott or richarlisons standard. Think he looks more like lower premier league/championship standard, his finishings woeful, he's ok as an option off the bench but that's about it - think the main part of his career will be played somewhere else

more excited about Holgate - think he looked assured on Saturday, was really good
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 20, 2018, 09:28:15 PM
Cant teach how to finish, either got it or not

Biggest myth in football this.

You can certainly coach a player to improve their play in the penalty area, especially finishing.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: D15TIN on August 20, 2018, 09:34:01 PM
Biggest myth in football this.

You can certainly coach a player to improve their play in the penalty area, especially finishing.


Well at Everton at least when a striker couldn't finish, theyve tended not to improve over time - likes of Johnson, Bent, Radzinski spring to mind, all tended to hit low figures

likes of Yakubu, Lukaku and Saha all could though. Yakubu especially was a brilliant finisher
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blue1948 on August 20, 2018, 09:34:31 PM
Nothing like shipping all the kids out is there !! My only thought is that some of you are parents ,I hope you give your kids more of a break .
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 20, 2018, 09:37:53 PM
Biggest myth in football this.

You can certainly coach a player to improve their play in the penalty area, especially finishing.

Completely this

Harry Kane was terrible at Orient and Millwall, how do people think he became better? Training and practice? Or just suddenly 'having it'?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 20, 2018, 09:43:15 PM
I think terminology is important here.

With age & maturity can definitely come an awareness of percentage shots. Of being aware enough in-game not to waste a shot just because you can see a goal.

Sterling is a poor 'finisher' for example. But he is clever enough, and persistent enough, to keep forcing chances so that the numbers end up weighing in his favour.
McFadden could strike the ball perfectly, but had poor shot-choice.

Nothing DCL has shown so far makes him look like he would be bad at any part of being a striker. But whilst he's been asked to run the channels and hold-up the ball, i think it's very unfair to write him off.
The kid has all the physical attributes you could want - we just need to see what his mind is like when people start playing the ball into him with the expectation of him facing the goal and trying to score. He's not really had that luxury yet.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on August 20, 2018, 09:46:19 PM
Completely this

Harry Kane was terrible at Orient and Millwall, how do people think he became better? Training and practice? Or just suddenly 'having it'?

True. He's got the physical attributes but he's perceived to be quite a late developer at this level as he hasn't either trained, been coached or played at Premier League standard for any period of time. If players aren't showing regular promise at 21 they're looked down upon as most kids with talent at top clubs come through the ranks at 17/18, whereas he's been bought in from the lower leagues.

Last season was a shit show where the kids learnt as they went along. This year he might come on with proper coaching, playing with genuine talent and a manager who knows what he's doing. I still think he'll struggle for regular game time though.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Waltzer on August 20, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
Completely this

Harry Kane was terrible at Orient and Millwall, how do people think he became better? Training and practice? Or just suddenly 'having it'?

I think both points have some validity, without doubt there are 'natural finishers' who just know where the back of the net is, there are also those that can practice and improve. Kane at Orient and Millwall will not of been getting anywhere near the quality service he is at Spurs and things like that will significantly enhance his opportunities. Thats why to some extent its valid to say DCL will do better in a more attacking type of play, as opportunities should be more frequent.
From my perspective I haven't seen anything DCL to suggest he is a natural finisher or has a good enough current skill set that could be fine tuned to take him to the level needed to make it at the top.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Cassius on August 20, 2018, 09:54:02 PM
It's all about instinct for me. DCL hasn't got the same sort of instinct for a goal that Ian Wright, Gary Linekar or even Harry Kane have.

But that doesn't mean he won't ever be a good finisher.

He's too young to write off and has enough of the attributes, including as good a touch as I've seen from a lanky forward at Goodison in many years, for me to think he'll make it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on August 20, 2018, 10:11:43 PM
It's all about instinct for me. DCL hasn't got the same sort of instinct for a goal that Ian Wright, Gary Linekar or even Harry Kane have.

But that doesn't mean he won't ever be a good finisher.

He's too young to write off and has enough of the attributes, including as good a touch as I've seen from a lanky forward at Goodison in many years, for me to think he'll make it.

I don't see these instincts. He hardly if ever is in a good goal scoring position. I agree it is to early to write him off but I don't see the bags of potential that all claim to see.

I am impressed with him physically. he has certainly filled out and looks far more imposing which is a good thing. Has that affected his pace, we shall see.  Will he be better with better players around? Let's hope so and hope he turns into the striker we need.

I have major reservations though.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on August 20, 2018, 10:28:59 PM
I think heís a good acid test for how well someone gets footy.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/wSCAy1zJbcUG4/giphy.gif)

So how does one pass this test..?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 20, 2018, 10:32:24 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wSCAy1zJbcUG4/giphy.gif)

So how does one pass this test..?

If you agree with him you pass with flying colours. Disagree and you just arenít clever enough to get whatís obvious to said expert
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Waltzer on August 20, 2018, 10:33:43 PM
Itd be interesting to find out what the scout report was when we signed DCL as never in his short career have goals ever been in abundance? The only time he ever averaged over 1 in 4 was in the conference North playing for Stalybridge Celtic where he got 6 in 5 games, he never scored once for Sheff United and you could argue how much Sheff Utd actually valued him considering they let him go for 1.5 million? It was only 6 months later we paid 10x that amount for Lookman
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 20, 2018, 11:18:30 PM
Kane worked his balls off on the aspects of his game were he was average, which was most of it, fair play to him proves it can be done.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: van der Meyde on August 20, 2018, 11:20:15 PM
Heard a lot of people saying Richarlison was a shit finisher last season too...
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: piggypop on August 21, 2018, 12:50:44 AM
He's the same age as Lookman, yet only one of them has managed to produce pretty consistent performances in a number of different positions under a number of different (shite) managers.
Maybe he just doesn't do enough stepovers or want a transfer enough for some of you.

The lad's got talent. He's not going to be Messi, or even Harry Kane, but if you think he's a shit footballer for his age I do wonder  what you actually see during a game.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Trublue on August 21, 2018, 01:03:40 AM
We're only two games into the Marco Silva, time. So far Tosen, has been used as a target man, with our wide men to get the goals. DCL can do the hold up play and knock downs well. Last season, there wasn't anyone to feed off him. As we had no pace in the side.  I don't expect him to score loads but, he could help others score.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Danny on August 21, 2018, 01:12:01 AM
Thought that was a brilliant (@koemansnumbertens) cameo from him the other day, I went to the match so not sure if it came across on tv but he was a nuisance and kept bringing down balls and passing them into our attackers.

Got in behind once and should have done better but I honestly think given more games he could be a good striker for us.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on August 21, 2018, 02:06:18 AM
Thought that was a brilliant (@koemansnumbertens) cameo from him the other day, I went to the match so not sure if it came across on tv but he was a nuisance and kept bringing down balls and passing them into our attackers.

Got in behind once and should have done better but I honestly think given more games he could be a good striker for us.

Agree with this.

 Walcott did worse with a better chance (albeit one he helped create), and Coleman made a mich bigger mess twice last week..and both were better opportunities to create a goal.

He physically looks the part now, let's see what Silva does with the rest of his game
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 21, 2018, 02:17:49 AM
Mad the two people on here that actually watch him but donít rate him. Itís alright the people outside the club who donít rate him, they only really got 90 seconds of MOtD with shite Allardyce football to form an opinion.

Wasnít he one of the most creative young forwards last year? Despite chasing Jags hoofballs most of the time he pulled in good numbers.

Agree on his finishing, he needs to bring a range of finishes into his game, like someone tell him that youíre allowed to put your laces through it.

Also, if people are saying you canít teach finish or movement (right place at the right time or whatever bloke done the pub phrasing you want to use) then youíre fucking mental.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: kramer0 on August 21, 2018, 02:30:35 AM
I'd like to see what he can do with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.

Tosun is a better finisher but the team might benefit more from having a quick, physical set-up man for its two goalscoring wingers.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: nsno on August 21, 2018, 02:38:19 AM
You're either confusing DCL's position here, or Bernards, or both?
Silva likes to play a front 3. Tosun, richarlison, niasse, Walcott, Sandro, Bernard, lookman, dcl. A lot of completion for 3 places in the team with a lot of those player able to play in more than one position across the front 3. So in that case I'm not confusing anybodies position.

Bernard is a left winger and that is a position I've seen dcl play in for Everton, we also have richarlison and lookman who play in that position. Tosun, dcl, Sandro Walcott and niasse can play down the middle. Walcott and Sandro down the right.  So back to my original point a loan move in January when Bernard is up to speed.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on August 21, 2018, 02:53:14 AM
Nice kid. Didn't see much that overly impressed me last season but obviously he's still young and there's a chance he'll improve and go on to be a world beater, or even a first team regular in a top 10 side. But  to be honest I'd be surprised.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on August 21, 2018, 03:03:47 AM
Don't see why he's such a big talking point to be honest, he's doing alright, didn't cost that much, just let him get on with it.

I did have a taxi driver a few days ago tell me that he'd never make it because he's too weak, mind. Can’t reason with fans like that.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Gash on August 21, 2018, 03:06:27 AM
On a scale of @brap2 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) to @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) I'm somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 21, 2018, 03:07:18 AM
On a scale of @brap2 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) to @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) I'm somewhere in the middle.
Ha ha yeah that's summed me up perfectly too
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 21, 2018, 03:16:20 AM
On a scale of @brap2 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) to @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) I'm somewhere in the middle.

I don't think he's dreadful. Just limited but hard working. He might improve and have a decent career with us. I'm just baffled that most seem to think he's a near certainty. He's shown very little to suggest he could be great
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on August 21, 2018, 03:25:57 AM
I'd like to see what he can do with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.

Tosun is a better finisher but the team might benefit more from having a quick, physical set-up man for its two goalscoring wingers.

Agreed. I'm not overly sold on Tosun. He's not necessarily a bad player but his lack of pace and awareness in the final third means I'd much rather see DCL get more minutes to improve and complement the other pacey more mobile forwards we have.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2018, 03:32:02 AM
Tosun is sound, but DCL is a similar sort of forward who is younger with some attributes that seem naturally better fit for the role.

I like Tosun but Iím still saying DCL will surpass him if he gets minutes. They donít offer much either side of the other.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mouse on August 21, 2018, 03:39:31 AM
Agreed. I'm not overly sold on Tosun. He's not necessarily a bad player but his lack of pace and awareness in the final third means I'd much rather see DCL get more minutes to improve and complement the other pacey more mobile forwards we have.
I get the lack of pace argument, but awarenes? I think Tosun is very good at bringing others into the game and at taking defenders away to create space.

I like DCL and think he will be a solid player but he needs to show huge improvement in his goal scoring and creating to be a great player. The potential is there in terms of speed and physical presence plus he seems to have a half decent footballing brain. But he really needs to work on his end product whether that is scoring or providing. I'd like to think that with Silva working with him this will improve.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Danny on August 21, 2018, 04:09:19 AM
What I like is even if he ends up not being that good he's the type of player we could ship to Bournemouth for £15 million in this market.

Cost us pennies and may end up being a decent player, speaks of the quality of the scouting system.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 21, 2018, 04:27:48 AM
Silva likes to play a front 3. Tosun, richarlison, niasse, Walcott, Sandro, Bernard, lookman, dcl. A lot of completion for 3 places in the team with a lot of those player able to play in more than one position across the front 3. So in that case I'm not confusing anybodies position.

Bernard is a left winger and that is a position I've seen dcl play in for Everton, we also have richarlison and lookman who play in that position. Tosun, dcl, Sandro Walcott and niasse can play down the middle. Walcott and Sandro down the right.  So back to my original point a loan move in January when Bernard is up to speed.

First two league games Silva has played Tosun as an out and out striker, not a front three as you describe here. Against Southampton I'd argue Gylfi was more advanced than the wingers for the most part. DCL was used from the wings a lot last season to help him develop his game, as happens with a lot of young strikers. It helps he has the pace and willingness to chase in the channels. He's a striker though, that's his position. Bernard is not. So back to your original point, it makes little sense.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 04:30:47 AM
Agreed. I'm not overly sold on Tosun. He's not necessarily a bad player but his lack of pace and awareness in the final third means I'd much rather see DCL get more minutes to improve and complement the other pacey more mobile forwards we have.

Sorry, donít understand where you get Tosun ďlack of paceĒ any supporting on that ? DCL May have as good as /similar pace to Tosun but loses his head in the box.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 21, 2018, 04:32:09 AM
I don't think he's dreadful. Just limited but hard working. He might improve and have a decent career with us. I'm just baffled that most seem to think he's a near certainty. He's shown very little to suggest he could be great

Your issue is you only deal in extremes though. As in, if he's not great (Ronaldo levels) he's shite (Brett Angel levels). Many are saying they can see him going on to become a very good player at this level, no one is suggesting a Ballon d'Or winner.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 21, 2018, 04:34:03 AM
Sorry, donít understand where you get Tosun ďlack of paceĒ any supporting on that ? DCL May have as good as /similar pace to Tosun but loses his head in the box.

DCL blitzes Tosun on pace, all day every day.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2018, 05:31:19 AM
Tosun hasnít done anything wrong like, heís played well and hasnít really been on the receiving end of any chances...

Iím just glad weíve got an U23 talent that is capable of stepping in for him like for like and potentially becoming even better.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on August 21, 2018, 05:47:35 AM
Just another James Vaughan. Be playing in league one in 2 years. Offers f**kall. Can take his mate Holgate with him, laughing and joking coming off the pitch tonight. Wanted to slap him


if i could i would tool this post every day until i died.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 21, 2018, 07:04:21 AM

if i could i would tool this post every day until i died.
Are you against an alternative view nowadays?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 21, 2018, 10:03:37 AM
Are you against an alternative view nowadays?

Itís a woeful post heís responding to in fairness.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 21, 2018, 10:27:02 AM
Your issue is you only deal in extremes though. As in, if he's not great (Ronaldo levels) he's shite (Brett Angel levels). Many are saying they can see him going on to become a very good player at this level, no one is suggesting a Ballon d'Or winner.

Iím not the 1 dealing in extremes here. 95% of people on here seem to think itís outlandish that the 5% donít rate him. Heís done absolutely nothing so far and is described as a baller whoís hold up play is brilliant.
Not Ronaldo isnít the issue here. Heís not yet niasse.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 21, 2018, 12:52:56 PM
Iím not the 1 dealing in extremes here. 95% of people on here seem to think itís outlandish that the 5% donít rate him. Heís done absolutely nothing so far and is described as a baller whoís hold up play is brilliant.
Not Ronaldo isnít the issue here. Heís not yet niasse.
To use the modern hair split, 95% of those who expressed an opinion on  here like him, it's easy for a few to convince themselves they represent the majority in a forum situation and it's easy for other people to conclude it's a majority view reading it, think it's about 50/50 split in real life on DCL, a lot say he still has time ansd as many say he's not going to make it,, think it'll be clear at the end of this season, after all he has suffered Koeman/Allardyce and some underwhelming support players.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Toddacelli on August 21, 2018, 01:24:03 PM
To use the modern hair split, 95% of those who expressed an opinion on  here like him, it's easy for a few to convince themselves they represent the majority in a forum situation and it's easy for other people to conclude it's a majority view reading it, think it's about 50/50 split in real life on DCL, a lot say he still has time ansd as many say he's not going to make it,, think it'll be clear at the end of this season, after all he has suffered Koeman/Allardyce and some underwhelming support players.

I agree. I like him but I don't know if he'll be good enough for us but I've seen enough to give him a chance and give him time to develop.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on August 21, 2018, 02:03:44 PM
I get the lack of pace argument, but awarenes? I think Tosun is very good at bringing others into the game and at taking defenders away to create space.

I like DCL and think he will be a solid player but he needs to show huge improvement in his goal scoring and creating to be a great player. The potential is there in terms of speed and physical presence plus he seems to have a half decent footballing brain. But he really needs to work on his end product whether that is scoring or providing. I'd like to think that with Silva working with him this will improve.

First two games this season Tosun has avoided playing a team-mate in with a simple pass to score, both with Walcott, and took on a shot which was easily saved.

Itís great to back yourself but even better to be aware of whatís round you and be unselfish for the team.

Like I said itís not that I donít rate him and heís still ahead of DCL as things stand I just think if weíve got bigger aspirations and more depth this year our players should be subject to more scrutiny.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mouse on August 21, 2018, 02:13:07 PM
He's a striker, that what's they do at times, they have to back themselves. If either shot (and I know it is a big IF) goes in then he's a hero. He also put Richarlison through for his goal at Wolves and ran tirelessly and unselfishly in both games so far.

He's not Salah or Kane but he's easily the best we have. I've been happy with he's done so far but he does need a goal in the next couple of games.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 02:16:38 PM
DCL blitzes Tosun on pace, all day every day.
I was asking if there was any evidence of this/stats or similar, how did you measure this ?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2018, 02:17:36 PM
I was asking if there was any evidence of this/stats or similar, how did you measure this ?

He just is a lot faster. Itís obvious.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 02:19:11 PM
He just is a lot faster. Itís obvious.

Maybe but you can also run very fast down blind alleys.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
Iím not the 1 dealing in extremes here. 95% of people on here seem to think itís outlandish that the 5% donít rate him. Heís done absolutely nothing so far and is described as a baller whoís hold up play is brilliant.
Not Ronaldo isnít the issue here. Heís not yet niasse.

4 goals 6 assists at 20 years old. One of our most effective players last year.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on August 21, 2018, 04:20:18 PM
Maybe but you can also run very fast down blind alleys.

Bit of a straw man there, mate
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 21, 2018, 04:24:06 PM
Bit of a straw man there, mate

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/c924b622b71a51d0c4aa21760c69b9f3/tenor.gif?itemid=9264828)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 04:58:30 PM
Bit of a straw man there, mate

Equally the comment I was responding to .
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on August 21, 2018, 05:00:02 PM
I was asking if there was any evidence of this/stats or similar, how did you measure this ?

With my eyes.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 05:09:27 PM
With my eyes.

There goes another straw man :snigger:
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2018, 05:14:25 PM
There goes another straw man :snigger:

Are you actually trying to argue that tosun is faster than Calvert Lewin here?

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 21, 2018, 05:21:07 PM
Enough already, google is your friend  :Horse:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/theo-walcott-dominic-calvert-lewin-14432671

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 21, 2018, 05:29:59 PM
I'm not exactly sure you know what a straw-man is here @Escla (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=5210) .
It means arguing against a position that your opponent did not state.

People said DCL is faster. You asked by what metric, people answered in a manner suggesting their actual eyes were the devices used to see who was faster.
You then moved the goalposts by beginning to argue he uses said speed to run into dead-ends.

it may be that comment was a response to another post, arguing about another thing. But it was irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on August 21, 2018, 05:32:18 PM
Equally the comment I was responding to .

Not really.

It was about pace.

The comment you responded to stated that DCL was clearly faster than Tosun.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 21, 2018, 05:54:47 PM
Who cares how fast he runs.

The stats we should focus on are goals and chances converted etc. Ones relative to position played.

Now, whereís a good stat man when you need him... @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
Enough already, google is your friend  :Horse:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/theo-walcott-dominic-calvert-lewin-14432671

Thank you ! Thatís all I was ever asking for, was there any stat or evidence to back that statement up, now we have it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2018, 05:57:44 PM
Thank you ! That’s all I was ever asking for, was there any stat or evidence to back that statement up, now we have it.

Not everything needs to be backed up with evidence. Some things are just clear to the eye.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 05:58:55 PM
I'm not exactly sure you know what a straw-man is here @Escla (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=5210) .
It means arguing against a position that your opponent did not state.

People said DCL is faster. You asked by what metric, people answered in a manner suggesting their actual eyes were the devices used to see who was faster.
You then moved the goalposts by beginning to argue he uses said speed to run into dead-ends.

it may be that comment was a response to another post, arguing about another thing. But it was irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Know perfectly well what a straw man response is and that was what I got, didnít move any goal posts in saying you can sometimes use speed to run down blind alleys, that was just a personal view that it is sometimes the case, anyway, letís just drop itches fact that DCL is faster is now backed up by hard fact .
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 06:01:12 PM
Not everything needs to be backed up with evidence. Some things are just clear to the eye.

Ram, there was never any element of disbelief here, simply genuine curiosity as to whether or not this was an actual stat/fact , now we know that it is indeed a proven fact.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2018, 06:02:31 PM
Ram, there was never any element of disbelief here, simply genuine curiosity as to whether or not this was an actual stat/fact , now we know that it is indeed a proven fact.

You're weird. Proper derailed a thread just for the sake of being a crank.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 06:20:26 PM
You're weird. Proper derailed a thread just for the sake of being a crank.

Read the title of the thread, me asking a question about him is hardly derailing the thread, your prolongation of it perhaps. I find how you always have to close an argument out with a personal insult pretty weird.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on August 21, 2018, 06:30:35 PM
Are you against an alternative view nowadays?


i got no issues with alternative views, but they need to be based on facts or some resemblance of evidence..

who cares if xxxx and xxxx where smiling and laughing.. surely they're allowed to make jokes and have giggles.. im sure most of us guys (and girls) used to have laughs when in our late teens/low 20's...

to me it just showed that Tofifee had no knowledge of DCL or Holgate, and was basing his biased views on them working under negative managers such as Koeman and Allardyce.

Holgate was amazing in the last match, DCL yes he doesnt get the goals, but when he plays he puts in as much work as Tosun (well he did last year) Tosun/DCL are basically the foils our wingers and team work off.

I know he's a striker and most of the fans judge him by goals, but he/they do the dirty work so the likes of Walcott/Siggy/Richarlison etc can build off their hold up play.. the same as what Firminho does so Salah and Mane can do what they're doing.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 06:33:45 PM

i got no issues with alternative views, but they need to be based on facts or some resemblance of evidence..

who cares if xxxx and xxxx where smiling and laughing.. surely they're allowed to make jokes and have giggles.. im sure most of us guys (and girls) used to have laughs when in our late teens/low 20's...

to me it just showed that Tofifee had no knowledge of DCL or Holgate, and was basing his biased views on them working under negative managers such as Koeman and Allardyce.

Holgate was amazing in the last match, DCL yes he doesnt get the goals, but when he plays he puts in as much work as Tosun (well he did last year) Tosun/DCL are basically the foils our wingers and team work off.

I know he's a striker and most of the fans judge him by goals, but he/they do the dirty work so the likes of Walcott/Siggy/Richarlison etc can build off their hold up play.. the same as what Firminho does so Salah and Mane can do what they're doing.

If I could I would give you 20 likes for your first sentence !
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on August 21, 2018, 07:15:50 PM
Read the title of the thread, me asking a question about him is hardly derailing the thread, your prolongation of it perhaps. I find how you always have to close an argument out with a personal insult pretty weird.

To be fair you've come across as a proper wind up merchant here. It's the equivalent of saying you need proof that baines is shorter than tosun, and without exact numbers to back it up it's not true.

Very immature response
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on August 21, 2018, 07:23:17 PM
If I could I would give you 20 likes for your first sentence !

..and it continues. Give it a rest eh?

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2018, 07:28:18 PM
..and it continues. Give it a rest eh?

You give it a rest FFS, get off my case, itís nothing to do with you.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on August 21, 2018, 07:43:28 PM
You give it a rest FFS, get off my case, itís nothing to do with you.

Its almost like it's not a public forum and not a private conversation.

 Don't get pissed off because people are pointing out how stupid you're argument is.

Or you know, stand by it and keep digging. Whatever floats your boat

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheTone on August 21, 2018, 08:15:39 PM
(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Runner-Smacks.gif)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 21, 2018, 08:21:00 PM
Missed a few pages here, read it back

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/prc.gif)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on August 21, 2018, 09:16:50 PM
So wait, Escla thinks Tosun is quicker than DCL?

Thatís literally mental.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2018, 09:18:48 PM
So wait, Escla thinks Tosun is quicker than DCL?

Thatís literally mental.

Well, not exactly.

But he did need the echo to confirm DCL is in fact quicker than Tosun.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on August 21, 2018, 10:05:53 PM
We've got the facts now. Faaaaacts.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 21, 2018, 11:22:33 PM
So do some threads go down hill faster than others....
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: SANA_DR0 on August 21, 2018, 11:54:21 PM
So do some threads go down hill faster than others....

first post of the thread was the lowest point of this downhill challenge.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 21, 2018, 11:56:20 PM
first post of the thread was the lowest point of this downhill challenge.
I sincerely respect your right to that opinion...
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on August 22, 2018, 12:13:23 AM
If I could I would give you 20 likes for your first sentence !


(https://previews.123rf.com/images/wavebreakmediamicro/wavebreakmediamicro1602/wavebreakmediamicro160204971/52102586-happy-gay-couple-looking-at-each-other-in-bedroom.jpg)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Tofifee on August 22, 2018, 04:41:42 PM

if i could i would tool this post every day until i died.

If it's worth anything....I take the post back
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on August 22, 2018, 06:42:46 PM
Is Theo Walcott really faster than leighton Baines though?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on August 22, 2018, 06:45:30 PM
Is Theo Walcott really faster than leighton Baines though?

What does the echo say?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Trowel on August 22, 2018, 06:47:54 PM
What does the echo say?
It says, slightly quieter:
"Is Theo Walcott really faster than leighton Baines though?"
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on August 31, 2018, 01:15:47 AM
Well played last night DCL lad....if you were a redshite Southgate would be sucking your cock too.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 01, 2018, 03:31:40 AM
Looks like he really is no slouch

Premier League's fastest players of the season revealed

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6118953/Premier-Leagues-fastest-players-season-revealed.html

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on September 01, 2018, 03:50:52 AM
If he can add to his fox-in-the-box side and develop his striker instincts more, I don't really see what he's missing as a forward player. Developing into a very promising player.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on September 01, 2018, 03:52:25 AM
He's obviously rapid and strong it's his overall game that needs to improve but that could well come with time. He's a top prospect
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Risky on September 01, 2018, 04:03:31 AM
He's obviously rapid and strong it's his overall game that needs to improve but that could well come with time. He's a top prospect

Would actually say his overall game is good but it's his goalscoring that needs to improve.  I'm not criticising him for it as he's young and inexperienced, but in my eyes his general game is good but he's not looked confident enough in front of goal and his finishing has been erratic. 

I'm hoping the 2 goals he scored give him some confidence that helps him on that front.  The second goal especially.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Confucius on September 01, 2018, 04:24:33 AM
Would actually say his overall game is good but it's his goalscoring that needs to improve.  I'm not criticising him for it as he's young and inexperienced, but in my eyes his general game is good but he's not looked confident enough in front of goal and his finishing has been erratic. 

I'm hoping the 2 goals he scored give him some confidence that helps him on that front.  The second goal especially.

Spot on
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 01, 2018, 05:25:50 AM
Most underrated English youth player going.

If someone scored 2 for Liverpool or Chelsea this week you wouldnít have stopped hearing about them I GUARANTEE it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on September 01, 2018, 05:51:23 AM
Most underrated English youth player going.

If someone scored 2 for Liverpool or Chelsea this week you wouldnít have stopped hearing about them I GUARANTEE it.

It was the league cup vs Rotherham, that has to be taken into account. The spotlight was not very bright on this match. There wasnít even a stream available.

If he does that in PL like Richarlison has done for instance, heíll be noticed.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 01, 2018, 06:07:20 AM
Most underrated English youth player going.

If someone scored 2 for Liverpool or Chelsea this week you wouldnít have stopped hearing about them I GUARANTEE it.

I havenít stopped hearing about Phil Foden and Iím pretty sure heís never played a game of football in his life.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Danny on September 01, 2018, 03:00:31 PM
Most underrated English youth player going.

If someone scored 2 for Liverpool or Chelsea this week you wouldnít have stopped hearing about them I GUARANTEE it.

The reason for that is the press assume if it's a youth player scoring at a top 6 club that they must be a wonderkid to have been given a chance, they think that if a youth player comes through with us it's because of a lack of depth (partially true) so they aren't necessarily as talented.

Having said all that Calvert-Lewin should be getting noticed for England over Solanke.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 01, 2018, 07:42:18 PM
I havenít stopped hearing about Phil Foden and Iím pretty sure heís never played a game of football in his life.

Dominic Solanke gets more spotlight than Calvert Lewin and that fucker went nearly a whole season without scoring.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: School of Science on September 01, 2018, 07:55:32 PM
I'd put money on this, if we sold DCL tomorrow and they sold Solanke at the same time, they would get a higher fee. Don't ask me why, there is no comparison in my view.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 01, 2018, 11:32:03 PM
Should be starting over Cenk imo
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 01, 2018, 11:39:09 PM
Should be starting over Cenk imo

I think I agree, but Iím a little torn.

Tosunís unselfish runs have been good for Richarlison and Walcott, but he just isnít getting into goalscoring positions, and obviously he doesnít offer much threat on the counter attack, either.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 01, 2018, 11:49:42 PM
Please stop fouling people.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 02, 2018, 12:02:14 AM
Didnít have a great game but had a tough job to do.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on September 02, 2018, 12:09:57 AM
I think with pace on either side Tosun is your man. Without that then Calvert Lewin is more of a threat
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 02, 2018, 12:52:25 AM
I think with pace on either side Tosun is your man. Without that then Calvert Lewin is more of a threat

How about if we had pace all across the frontline? 
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blargins on September 02, 2018, 12:59:14 AM
DCL is the fastest in our squad isnít he?

Hoping he gets to prove me wrong.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on September 02, 2018, 01:56:40 AM
How about if we had pace all across the frontline? 

That's not the only attribute required
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 02, 2018, 02:02:47 AM
That's not the only attribute required

Yes, Iím more than aware of that.

I think DCL can hold it up too, plus he would potentially give us more of an option to thread through-balls given his league leading pace  :smug:
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: GLewis on September 02, 2018, 02:05:29 AM
Did well attacking the ball from the left side.

Also got in good positions on the left side when the full back had it but tried flicks, lay offs all the time with barely any/ none coming off.

All wide players have done well so far as the system is geared towards that area of the pitch.

I like how heís coming along but still (obviously) rough around the edges.

At least this week shows he will be getting plenty of minutes on the pitch.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Silas on September 02, 2018, 02:47:55 AM
Yes, Iím more than aware of that.

I think DCL can hold it up too, plus he would potentially give us more of an option to thread through-balls given his league leading pace  :smug:

He's definitely a great option alongside Tosun. I think Tosun plays with more intelligence but they will both play plenty
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 02, 2018, 03:36:16 PM
I know Tosun offers a lot for the side and works hard but the fastest player in the league is sat here on 3 goals so far. The potential upside to this lad is massive, I donít think there is any with Tosun.

Granted theyíll both have a role to play over a long season but I donít think itís necessarily a given that heís our 2nd choice striker for me. Heíll improve game by game if he gets chance to learn up tops
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 02, 2018, 04:31:27 PM
I know Tosun offers a lot for the side and works hard but the fastest player in the league is sat here on 3 goals so far. The potential upside to this lad is massive, I donít think there is any with Tosun.

Granted theyíll both have a role to play over a long season but I donít think itís necessarily a given that heís our 2nd choice striker for me. Heíll improve game by game if he gets chance to learn up tops

He has got three goals, but havenít they all come from him playing as a wide forward off the left?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: AllyBlue14 on September 02, 2018, 04:35:06 PM
I know Tosun offers a lot for the side and works hard but the fastest player in the league is sat here on 3 goals so far. The potential upside to this lad is massive, I donít think there is any with Tosun.

Granted theyíll both have a role to play over a long season but I donít think itís necessarily a given that heís our 2nd choice striker for me. Heíll improve game by game if he gets chance to learn up tops

DCL is the fastest player in the league?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 02, 2018, 04:51:30 PM
He has got three goals, but havenít they all come from him playing as a wide forward off the left?

They have but I can well imagine him and Richarlison interchanging positions quite effectively as they're both tall, athletic, fast and mobile. One or the other/both will get into goal scoring positions if theyíre both on the pitch.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 02, 2018, 04:55:50 PM
DCL is the fastest player in the league?

Tongue in cheek for effect but he is apparently the fastest recorded player in the league so far this season.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 02, 2018, 04:59:10 PM
They have but I can well imagine him and Richarlison interchanging positions quite effectively as they're both tall, athletic, fast and mobile. One or the other/both will get into goal scoring positions if theyíre both on the pitch.

I would like to think that can happen, but who knows.

Neither of them have had much success (as far as I know) as a CF, and one of the reasons they will get joy from wide is using their physicality to dominate full-backs and drift in, which is of course harder to mark.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 02, 2018, 08:16:39 PM
I would like to think that can happen, but who knows.

Neither of them have had much success (as far as I know) as a CF, and one of the reasons they will get joy from wide is using their physicality to dominate full-backs and drift in, which is of course harder to mark.

Yeh true. Suppose I see more of a Lukaku-esque potential in him which Iíd like to see flourish. Henry wasnít the finisher he was at DCLís age so to try and integrate Richarlison and DCL in the team and watch them develop is exciting. The football romantic in me I suppose.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 02, 2018, 08:43:26 PM
Yeh true. Suppose I see more of a Lukaku-esque potential in him which Iíd like to see flourish. Henry wasnít the finisher he was at DCLís age so to try and integrate Richarlison and DCL in the team and watch them develop is exciting. The football romantic in me I suppose.

Ainít nothing wrong in allowing the football romantic in you to dream  :wag:  :hug: 🍆
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 02, 2018, 09:21:40 PM
He certainly has more ceiling than Tosun.  I'd like to see him have an extended run alongside Richarlison, and see what happens.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 03, 2018, 05:56:58 AM
Are we already at the point where it feels like he should have a run in the Prem at CF over Tosun?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 03, 2018, 06:12:21 AM
Are we already at the point where it feels like he should have a run in the Prem at CF over Tosun?
Cant wait until people start saying hes shit and not Premier League level. I give it until November.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 03, 2018, 06:20:40 AM
Cant wait until people start saying hes shit and not Premier League level. I give it until November.

There was plenty sat by me on Saturday saying exactly that.

Plenty on twitter as well!

Unless you mean Tosun - in which case, October I think.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 03, 2018, 06:34:27 AM
There was plenty sat by me on Saturday saying exactly that.

Plenty on twitter as well!

Unless you mean Tosun - in which case, October I think.
It could be applied to either, which says a lot about our fans.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 03, 2018, 02:18:55 PM
It could be applied to either, which says a lot about our fans.

It's not a phenomenon unique to Everton
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 03, 2018, 03:00:03 PM
Are we already at the point where it feels like he should have a run in the Prem at CF over Tosun?

Tosun is playing well, just not getting into scoring positions.

Still give him a few more games but he needs to start bagging soon.

Shouldnít be throwing the baby out the bath water just yet.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 03, 2018, 04:19:04 PM
Good goal sat, did nowt else tho really, not a winger tho
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mick 1995 on September 03, 2018, 05:00:20 PM
This thread was full of people slating him saying he wasn't good enough.
General education went on and people started to accept he had all the tools but then stated he needed some end product.
He's scored 2 different type of goals in 2 games (one on Sat and 1st on Wed being proper centre-forward goals. The other on Wed being an outrageous finish)
and we're back to his all-round game again?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 03, 2018, 05:07:37 PM
His allround game is sound.

The best out there in terms of young strikers in the league.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 03, 2018, 06:05:46 PM
Tosun is playing well, just not getting into scoring positions.

Still give him a few more games but he needs to start bagging soon.

Shouldnít be throwing the baby out the bath water just yet.

Thatís worrying though, isnít it?

If DCL is playing well and getting into positions, and scoring - why should Tosun start?

I didnít expect it to happen this quickly but itís happened lads, Calvert-Lewin Season is upon us, embrace it and the Turkish James Vaughan shall be eased out.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 03, 2018, 06:07:29 PM
Thatís worrying though, isnít it?

If DCL is playing well and getting into positions, and scoring - why should Tosun start?

I didnít expect it to happen this quickly but itís happened lads, Calvert-Lewin Season is upon us, embrace it and the Turkish James Vaughan shall be eased out.

Can't wait to bump my "DCL is the next Harry Kane" thread
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 03, 2018, 06:39:00 PM
How good do people think DCL will be?

Like, if he progresses well, gets decent game time, and doesnít suffer any big injuries, what are we looking at in say 3 years time? Whoís a comparable player in terms of level you reckon.

Iíll open with (if things go very well) Chris Sutton.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mick 1995 on September 03, 2018, 06:42:41 PM
I'd be happy if he got to Chris Sutton levels like.

I actually think he'll get to the top of the Tier B guys. Never gonna be a 20+ a year striker.
But deffo capable of bagging 15 a year for an extended period.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: MmmblueBernard on September 03, 2018, 06:44:06 PM
James Beattie
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 03, 2018, 06:46:15 PM
Emile Heskey.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Toddacelli on September 03, 2018, 06:58:11 PM
He'll never have a scoring rate as high as @TheTone (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4357)    lolol

But I do think he could break the 15 goals per season mark on a regular basis.

This is all if he keeps improving, hits full potential, stays clear of injuries, keeps himself fit etc
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on September 03, 2018, 07:05:23 PM
Steven Naismith
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueForYou on September 03, 2018, 07:17:49 PM
Anelka
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: .Matty on September 03, 2018, 07:17:56 PM
Paul Rideout
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Cereal Killer on September 03, 2018, 07:21:27 PM
Mickael Madar
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bally on September 03, 2018, 07:23:10 PM
Duncan Ferguson... Oh wait
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Macca77 on September 03, 2018, 07:31:10 PM
Brett Angell
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 03, 2018, 07:35:03 PM
Louis Saha?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Paddockoldie on September 03, 2018, 08:16:05 PM
Considering he still gets goals even when he's played in various positions that may not be his strongest, I think he's doing good. If our other players could do the same we'd be better all round.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 03, 2018, 08:25:17 PM
Pele
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: MmmblueBernard on September 03, 2018, 08:33:53 PM
Louis Saha?

Paf. Non!
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 03, 2018, 08:59:12 PM
His allround game is sound.

The best out there in terms of young strikers in the league.



Heís better than Jesus and rashford?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 03, 2018, 09:10:42 PM
Heís better than Jesus

Feel like we should have that on a banner at Goodison
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 03, 2018, 09:18:05 PM
Heís better than Jesus and rashford?

In terms of overall game, hold up play, stuff like that, iíd say yeah he probably is. The whole reason rashford isnít getting any games is because heís poor in this department. 

But weíre talking about three different type of players.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on September 03, 2018, 10:08:15 PM
Heís better thand Jesus and rashford?

What does the Echo say ?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: sam of the south on September 03, 2018, 11:16:33 PM
Feel like we should have that on a banner at Goodison


Bit Kopite
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on September 04, 2018, 04:13:30 AM
What does the Echo say ?

If it's anything in the echo it will be mostly negative about DCL with redshite references to Solanke  lolol
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ramjam on September 04, 2018, 05:38:26 AM
He's better than Jesus and rashford?
Heís better than Jesus of Nazareth
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blargins on September 04, 2018, 06:37:05 AM
Heís better than Jesus of Nazareth

Nah, Jesus is way better at hanging in the air for crosses than DCL.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 04, 2018, 01:05:28 PM
Heís better than Jesus and rashford?

Heís a good 18 months behind Rashford in his development and put him in the City side and I reckon heíd bag a few more than he does now.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 04, 2018, 09:38:00 PM
Can't wait to bump my "DCL is the next Harry Kane" thread

Tosun is a solid placeholder CF.  He should promptly make way (not every match, the majority) when you've got someone capable of breaking through.  DCL is showing something, let's see if those embers can grow into a full fire.

I mean, this is why people wanted to look at a Batshuayi, or a "name your Batshuayi alternative" this summer, right?  It's not that Tosun is shit, but rather we should always be looking for a younger option with more ceiling.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: themilkycoffees on September 04, 2018, 11:28:43 PM
In terms of overall game, hold up play, stuff like that, iíd say yeah he probably is. The whole reason rashford isnít getting any games is because heís poor in this department. 

But weíre talking about three different type of players.

He's absolutely nowhere near Jesus. Rashford also better IMO. 
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 05, 2018, 03:26:45 AM
He's absolutely nowhere near Jesus. Rashford also better IMO. 

He didnít say he was.

Said his all round game was better which is fair enough considering Rashford canít get into the team because heís still too raw and Jesus doesnít really have a great all round game either.

DCL is well rounded but has nothing spectacular about him.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 05, 2018, 03:42:43 AM
He didnít say he was.

Said his all round game was better which is fair enough considering Rashford canít get into the team because heís still too raw and Jesus doesnít really have a great all round game either.

DCL is well rounded but has nothing spectacular about him.

Could DCL get in the Man U team?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 05, 2018, 03:48:00 AM
Heís a good 18 months behind Rashford in his development and put him in the City side and I reckon heíd bag a few more than he does now.

But still less than Jesus.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 05, 2018, 03:49:20 AM
Could DCL get in the Man U team?

Again, at no point did TheRam say DCL is a better player than Rashford (or Jesus).
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bally on September 05, 2018, 03:55:43 AM
Nah, Jesus is way better at hanging in the air for crosses than DCL.
Also good at sneaking out from behind the wall
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 05, 2018, 03:56:40 AM
Again, at no point did TheRam say DCL is a better player than Rashford (or Jesus).

No but he used rashford not playing as evidence. Heís miles behind both. What does rounded me if you add but not great at anything. Iím rounded Iím shite at everything
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 05, 2018, 04:09:54 AM
Competent at everything rarely leads to a worthwhile end product.
Gary Lineaker was hardly an all round player but his main asset meant he could continually use it because opponents were unable to cope with it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 05, 2018, 04:53:57 AM
Niclas Alexandersson was a great all round utility player on Champ Manager 97/98.

I was well excited when he signed for Everton but he turned out to be shite.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 05, 2018, 05:16:35 AM
He hasn’t played enough to say what he’s very good or average at. If he gets 2000 minutes this year we will know.

He’s had about 300 and scored 3 goals in that time.

He’s going to be starting over Tosun soon so get used to the sight of him fellas.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: stirlingblue on September 05, 2018, 03:07:54 PM
People are vastly underrating Jesusí all round game here, heís quite good in the air and can hold the ball up well for a smaller player.

Iím trying to think of a striker who DCL should be aiming to be like in a few years, Morata maybe?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Cereal Killer on September 05, 2018, 04:36:10 PM
People are vastly underrating Jesusí all round game here, heís quite good in the air and can hold the ball up well for a smaller player.

Iím trying to think of a striker who DCL should be aiming to be like in a few years, Morata maybe?

What, like, at Chelsea and overrated?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 05, 2018, 04:36:55 PM
Morata is generally thought of as shite isn’t he? Massively underrated imo.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 05, 2018, 05:39:39 PM
Morata isnít great.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 05, 2018, 06:01:18 PM
Good player morata.

On DCL, he is a very rounded striker and can perform a number of different roles to a good level. He can play on the shoulder, with his back to goal, running the channels and even outwide if needed. Not many strikers around that can offer you that versatility.

I think ultimately, when he gets a run in a side upfront, heíll become a 1 in 3 striker whoíll also get himself a fair share of assists and generally be regarded as a very good top level striker.



Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on September 05, 2018, 07:52:49 PM
Not sure who Morata is underrated by tbh. He's played 60 odd games for Real Madrid, 60 odd games for Juventus, 30 odd games for Chelsea and 20 odd games for the Spanish national team.

DCL's nowhere near as good as Gabriel Jesus. Rashford it's hard to say, because Mourinho seems to be slowly ruining him.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 05, 2018, 07:57:07 PM
Nobody has said heís better than Jesus or rashford.

Just somebody took something completely out of context and youíve all just carried it on.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on September 05, 2018, 08:04:43 PM
Heís better than Jesus and rashford?

In terms of overall game, hold up play, stuff like that, iíd say yeah he probably is.   

I mean, you kinda did say that 'in terms of overall game'. And people are just disagreeing. Nowt bad, just a difference of opinion.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Gary1878 on September 05, 2018, 08:07:27 PM
Its difficult to place DCL and what his focal attribute is. He has a decent header in him, can hold the ball up well, and has a bit of pace. He is ok at finishing.

The difference between being good and being great as a striker is the movement off the ball to create space, and the first touch. The top guys like Aguero and Lukaku make it look easy when they finish, because their movement is so good and quick. Defenders struggle to contain them as they can't forecast where they will go. DCL doesn't have this level of skill in his locker, and needs to concentrate on other parts of his game to contribute to Everton.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 05, 2018, 09:05:40 PM
Take the name off the top of this thread and try to guess the Everton player. Paul Rideout would probably get a fair few votes.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 05, 2018, 09:40:32 PM
The only people I hear slagging off Morata is Chelsea fans calling in Talksport, and thatís mainly because they donít like the gel in his hair.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 05, 2018, 09:59:25 PM
The only people I hear slagging off Morata is Chelsea fans calling in Talksport, and thatís mainly because they donít like the gel in his hair.

Which is fair enough
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: stirlingblue on September 05, 2018, 10:01:37 PM
In reality, the fact that you can't think of a top striker who is similar to DCL might suggest that he's not going to get all the way to the top.

If you look for similar players in the league at the minute I'd say you're looking at Callum Wilson / Andre Gray / Joshua King and whilst they're solid premiership players he would need to massively include on his technique or finishing to offer anything more than them.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 05, 2018, 10:23:36 PM
Take the name off the top of this thread and try to guess the Everton player. Paul Rideout would probably get a fair few votes.

He wasnít better than Jesus and rashford. Iíd probably have to say Wayne rooney
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 05, 2018, 10:38:15 PM
I mean, you kinda did say that 'in terms of overall game'. And people are just disagreeing. Nowt bad, just a difference of opinion.

Maybe I chose the wrong wording but surely you understand the point I was trying to make?

Or do you actually think Iíd come on here and say DCL is better than Gabriel Jesus?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: gizzblue on September 05, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
Way early to tell who's better this year goals to games he has Rashdord and Jesus beat so far ...but over ten games we should then revisit this thread.

Think he's improving all the time tbh.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on September 11, 2018, 10:56:38 PM
On for England u21ís on 80 minutes.

Injured for England u21ís on 89 minutes.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: blueToffee on September 11, 2018, 11:54:51 PM
On for England u21ís on 80 minutes.

Injured for England u21ís on 89 minutes.



This is getting a bit ridiculous.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ross on September 12, 2018, 12:26:51 AM
This is getting a bit ridiculous.

Think we must be close to having a full team out injured now with varying degrees of seriousness.

Considering weíre only 4/5 games into a new season under a new regime itís very unfortunate and is obviously doing nothing for continuity or rhythm.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 12, 2018, 01:04:56 AM
At what point do we say is this our fault like training etc?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 12, 2018, 01:10:28 AM
At what point do we say is this our fault like training etc?

When they all start going down with muscle injuries.

Apart from Gana I think the injuries weíve got have been unlucky.

Keane- Head
Walcott- Ribs
Coleman- foot

Mina and Gomes were already injured.

Donít know whatís happened with DCL but heís a bit prone to injury himself.

Have we got anyone else out? Kind of feel like Iím forgettin somebody.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 12, 2018, 01:11:45 AM
When they all start going down with muscle injuries.

Apart from Gana I think the injuries weíve got have been unlucky.

Keane- Head
Walcott- Ribs
Coleman- foot

Mina and Gomes were already injured.

Donít know whatís happened with DCL but heís a bit prone to injury himself.

Have we got anyone else out? Kind of feel like Iím forgettin somebody.

I wonder if McCarthy is injured. 🤔
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 12, 2018, 01:33:40 AM
Yeah fair enough. Wasnít sure what walcottís was to be fair, not that heís much of an indicator as heís oretty join guaranteed to miss part of the season no matter what
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 12, 2018, 02:05:02 AM
Itís just been compounded by two players missing three games each too through suspension.

If we can navigate our way past West Ham and avoid another Huddersfield performance the squad starts to come back together in time for the tougher games.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Gash on September 12, 2018, 02:33:58 AM
When they all start going down with muscle injuries.

Apart from Gana I think the injuries weíve got have been unlucky.

Keane- Head
Walcott- Ribs
Coleman- foot

Mina and Gomes were already injured.

Donít know whatís happened with DCL but heís a bit prone to injury himself.

Have we got anyone else out? Kind of feel like Iím forgettin somebody.

Bernard still getting up to speed and Richarlison suspended pretty much covers it I think. It was only a matter of time before someone started pointing the finger at the training methods rather than look at the bigger picture.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: everton1952 on September 12, 2018, 02:58:18 AM
When is the last time anyone lost their first 5 PL games?  No way will West Ham be any sort of easy game. It is likely to be another Huddersfield game, only  this time with West Ham desperate to stop the rot. Probable 2-2 draw I reckon.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: BlueNoseMike on September 12, 2018, 03:39:10 AM
When is the last time anyone lost their first 5 PL games?  No way will West Ham be any sort of easy game. It is likely to be another Huddersfield game, only  this time with West Ham desperate to stop the rot. Probable 2-2 draw I reckon.

Literally last season palace lost their first 7
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 12, 2018, 03:45:34 AM
Any news?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 12, 2018, 03:56:29 AM
Any news?
Concussion apparently
Mandatory 2 weeks out that ain't it
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 12, 2018, 04:22:49 AM
Bernard still getting up to speed and Richarlison suspended pretty much covers it I think. It was only a matter of time before someone started pointing the finger at the training methods rather than look at the bigger picture.

@ me bro
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: everton1952 on September 12, 2018, 05:04:58 AM
Literally last season palace lost their first 7
In that case we will win then. No pressure at all on West Ham who will cheerfully lose again.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluedylan on September 12, 2018, 05:19:08 AM
We've actually had some pretty bad luck. That's all it is. I'm always loathe to blame things on luck or go with 'Everton that', but in this instance it does just seem to be an unfortunate convergence of differing, unrelated circumstances.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 12, 2018, 05:57:28 AM
According to premier injuries we have 12 out, that includes 2 head collisions, a rib collision a red card and a broken leg.

McCarthy, calf/heel/shin : October
Keane, head : September
Jagielka, knee cartilage : September
Gomes, thigh : September
Yerry, ankle/foot : September
Richarlison, red card : September
Gueye, knee : September
Bernard, ‘other’ muscular : September
Walcott, ribs : September
Coleman, ankle/foot : September
Beni, ankle : September
Dom, knock : no return
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Macca77 on September 17, 2018, 02:21:02 PM
One of the worst players on the pitch yesterday, amazed he lasted the 90 mins
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2018, 02:30:04 PM
Thatís because heís not a winger
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Macca77 on September 17, 2018, 02:33:30 PM
Thatís because heís not a winger

Yep, playing him on the wing is absolutely ruining him
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lazarou on September 17, 2018, 02:41:50 PM
It does appear we have learnt nothing about playing young players out position and ruining them. Been happening for years.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 02:45:12 PM
Heís got to play up front. Heís got to play upfront immediately and Tosun needs fucking off.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 17, 2018, 02:49:30 PM
The prem doesnt have time/patience for young strikers,if Cenk doesnt do it the club will buy again.Our expectations of where we should be going wont allow the manager to play chance in a pivotal position of CF
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on September 17, 2018, 03:01:44 PM
Heís got to play up front. Heís got to play upfront immediately and Tosun needs fucking off.

Letís not write off Tosun just yet, letís judge once Richarlison and Bernard start giving him some service.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2018, 03:03:26 PM
Had his service yesterday and completely blew it.

Heís gone five games without a goal now. Needs dropping.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 03:06:01 PM
Letís not write off Tosun just yet, letís judge once Richarlison and Bernard start giving him some service.

Heís not doing the bare minimum. There is no logical reason to start him over DCL except that we paid money for him.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on September 17, 2018, 03:07:16 PM
Heís not doing the bare minimum. There is no logical reason to start him over DCL except that we paid money for him.

And DCL is the new James Vaughn.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 03:07:53 PM
And DCL is the new James Vaughn.

Whatís that based on
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2018, 03:08:33 PM
And DCL is the new James Vaughn.

Wot
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on September 17, 2018, 03:08:52 PM
Whatís that based on

His performances to date.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Macca77 on September 17, 2018, 03:12:53 PM
DCL isn't the answer to our lack of goals problem, lets just get that clear.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 03:17:29 PM
Has played half the minutes cenk has, has played probably a quarter of them up front - and has a better goal record.

People need to get over this DCL canít finish thing. Play him up front and letís see for ourselves because cenk Tosun is demonstrably crap.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 17, 2018, 03:20:46 PM
Yet to have a single very good/great game for us. Heís only vastly upping his level and consistency away from being a good player
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2018, 03:28:28 PM
His performances to date.

Heís nothing like James Vaughan and has a lot more to his game so I find this shout a bit strange.

Or are you just comparing the two because theyíre young a play upfront and hoping it sticks?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2018, 03:29:15 PM
Has played half the minutes cenk has, has played probably a quarter of them up front - and has a better goal record.

People need to get over this DCL canít finish thing. Play him up front and letís see for ourselves because cenk Tosun is demonstrably crap.

Scores that header Tosun had in the first half all day.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Normm on September 17, 2018, 04:04:06 PM
Has played half the minutes cenk has, has played probably a quarter of them up front - and has a better goal record.

People need to get over this DCL canít finish thing. Play him up front and letís see for ourselves because cenk Tosun is demonstrably crap.

I don't think that Tosun is that poor, but he is well off form and CL plays better as CF - not out on the wing!
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Normm on September 17, 2018, 04:11:38 PM
DCL isn't the answer to our lack of goals problem, lets just get that clear.

No one person is. We've got to start playing as a team. Then contributions will come from all quarters. CL needs to lead the line at the moment imo. (Although Richarlison did play with a 9 for Brazil and scored two goals. ...Mmm?)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: hannu on September 17, 2018, 04:32:09 PM
No one person is. We've got to start playing as a team. Then contributions will come from all quarters. CL needs to lead the line at the moment imo. (Although Richarlison did play with a 9 for Brazil and scored two goals. ...Mmm?)

lets not forget that was against the powerhouse of world football, El Salvador
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 17, 2018, 05:03:07 PM
Let’s not write off Tosun just yet, let’s judge once Richarlison and Bernard start giving him some service.

He's had enough opportunities to open his account. Good opportunities too. Not even looked like scoring.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 17, 2018, 05:05:42 PM
DCL isn't the answer to our lack of goals problem, lets just get that clear.

He could be one of them. Let's just be clear, Tosun isn't the answer.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Shogun on September 17, 2018, 05:30:52 PM
DCL was awful yesterday, out of position or not.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 17, 2018, 06:03:19 PM
Be nice to travel to a slightly out of sync parallel universe and play that West Ham team with:


Pickford
(with his head out of his arse)


Coleman ---------- Jags ---------- Mina ---------- Digne


Gomes ------- Schneiderlin


Sigurdsson

Walcott ------------------------ Bernard
Richarlison


Although obviously not an out and out striker, I'd like to see what Richarlison can do in the middle with proper threat wide. Cant be any worse than Tosun, DCL or Niasse.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheTone on September 17, 2018, 06:09:59 PM
Loves a team line up does @The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3387)

I like that front 4 lid
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 17, 2018, 06:11:35 PM
Cheers :)
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: cantoffee on September 17, 2018, 06:45:03 PM
Maybe DCL isnt the answer but we dont have a clear option up top and he seems a better bet than Tosun.

More goals, stronger, faster, younger with room to improve. Needs to be given a run of gamrs up front to show what he can do with the quality we have in attacking areas.

Tosun can come off the bench and we can also fuck off this Niasse on in the 75th minute garbage, it's embarrassing.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2018, 06:45:53 PM
Yeah, I'm done with Niasse now myself.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 07:04:22 PM
I nearly walked out when I saw he was bringing niasse and not Lookman on.

And he still had our best chance to score ffs.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 17, 2018, 07:10:37 PM
I was kind of hoping we wouldn't have reached the Niasse wild card option only 5 game in.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Free Agent on September 17, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
How many games until the transfer window reopens  :headbang:
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Martip on September 17, 2018, 07:44:35 PM
Had his service yesterday and completely blew it.

Heís gone five games without a goal now. Needs dropping.
Gotta agree with this tbh. He had so.e chances laid on for him and did fook all with them. Nowhere near good enough to lead the line.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 07:48:18 PM
I just don’t think has any redeeming qualities and would be very happy if silva put his faith in DCL.

Walcott DCL Richarlison
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 17, 2018, 08:30:12 PM
Would start Bernard ahead of DCL every day of the week myself.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 17, 2018, 08:33:37 PM
Henry Onyekuru is still doing well also. Continuing his 1 goal in 2 ratio. Not bad for a kid, mostly in and out and playing in a few different attacking positions. Another positive in this current shit storm we are weathering...
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Escla on September 17, 2018, 08:54:48 PM
Heís nothing like James Vaughan and has a lot more to his game so I find this shout a bit strange.

Or are you just comparing the two because theyíre young a play upfront and hoping it sticks?

I mean in terms of he is unlikely in my opinion to fulfill our high expectations just lake James Vaughn
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheTone on September 17, 2018, 09:01:58 PM
ya Bernard needs to be included, proper player this lad, I think long term he's in there at No 10 instead of Siggy
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 17, 2018, 09:07:35 PM
ya Bernard needs to be included, proper player this lad, I think long term he's in there at No 10 instead of Siggy

Don't think there's a doubt about it. We need a No 10 who wants the ball and aims to do something with it.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 09:13:41 PM
Would start Bernard ahead of DCL every day of the week myself.

Not up front tho yeah
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2018, 09:15:45 PM
Don't think there's a doubt about it. We need a No 10 who wants the ball and aims to do something with it.

Think we will probably abandon the number 10 shortly and move to 3 CMís like he had at Watford.

Painful but heís clearly not up to it nor will he ever be.

Give him a shot in cm and if he canít do it, drag him off and flog him asap.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 17, 2018, 10:22:57 PM
Not up front tho yeah

Not right up front no, either attacking/supplying from wide or in a number 10 roll.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on September 18, 2018, 03:27:24 AM
Not right up front no, either attacking/supplying from wide or in a number 10 roll.

aka, not DCL's positions.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2018, 05:01:34 AM
I just donít think has any redeeming qualities and would be very happy if silva put his faith in DCL.

Walcott DCL Richarlison

And then you see his strike on twitter from last years CL and you think -

Maybe itís because weíre not feeding him?

And you re-enter the Everton striker shame spiral.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 18, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
aka, not DCL's positions.

Obviously, but the point was Richarlison could take up the spot of target man, which would mean his position going to Bernard. DCL is not a winger, and I honestly dont think he will make it as a top class centre forward either. He is a "good" player, just not a "very good" one, and if we want to improve our team, in an ever improving league, then we need to go one step better than DCL and Tosun and especially Niasse. A front 3 of Bernard - Richarlison - Walcott would be quite scary, all with pace and ability.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Jamokachi on September 18, 2018, 06:11:16 PM
Obviously, but the point was Richarlison could take up the spot of target man, which would mean his position going to Bernard. DCL is not a winger, and I honestly dont think he will make it as a top class centre forward either. He is a "good" player, just not a "very good" one, and if we want to improve our team, in an ever improving league, then we need to go one step better than DCL and Tosun and especially Niasse. A front 3 of Bernard - Richarlison - Walcott would be quite scary, all with pace and ability.

Why move Richardson tho? DCL up front and Bernard playing in the 10. That's keeping players in their positions, something it's about time we tried doing.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Morta75 on September 18, 2018, 06:14:45 PM
DCL is a center fwd. not a out wide player. Play him where he should be playing and judge then, but he's coming to a point now and need to prove he can do it. Unless sell him next summer.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Waltzer on September 18, 2018, 07:16:56 PM
Why move Richardson tho? DCL up front and Bernard playing in the 10. That's keeping players in their positions, something it's about time we tried doing.

Richarlison has previously played upfront though, its not alien territory for him. He played up top for Brazil to recently and did extremely well, DCL cant even get a starting place in the England U21s, yet were debating the merits of him starting there over someone who has just played for Brazil in that position, despite their wealth of talent? Yes it was against El Salvador, but for him to get that recognition highlights his value and ability to play at the highest level in that position.

If DCL was at any other club I guarantee there would be outrage on here if we made a bid for him as he is nowhere near good enough for a team trying to get to progress. Yes he works his socks off and seems like a decent bloke but we need more than that. DCL is extremely fortunate to be at Everton and when he eventually goes id be amazed if its to another Premiership team.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 18, 2018, 07:39:26 PM
Richarlison has previously played upfront though, its not alien territory for him. He played up top for Brazil to recently and did extremely well, DCL cant even get a starting place in the England U21s, yet were debating the merits of him starting there over someone who has just played for Brazil in that position, despite their wealth of talent? Yes it was against El Salvador, but for him to get that recognition highlights his value and ability to play at the highest level in that position.

If DCL was at any other club I guarantee there would be outrage on here if we made a bid for him as he is nowhere near good enough for a team trying to get to progress. Yes he works his socks off and seems like a decent bloke but we need more than that. DCL is extremely fortunate to be at Everton and when he eventually goes id be amazed if its to another Premiership team.


Heís a premier league standard player like, to say otherwise is ridiculous imo.

Richarlison has been our biggest attacking threat from the left so why move him central?

Massive difference in playing against El Salvador to playing in the premier league.

Letís see what DCL has to offer upfront in a team that creates chances on the regular. I think he could be very effective.

Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2018, 07:58:57 PM
Yeah if DCL gets a few starts at CF and doesnít deliver then Iíd be one of the first to say fuck him off for good then, but at the moment weíre playing him everywhere but and over his last 30 games all competitions all positions heís managed to produce goals and assists so worth a fuckin try innit?
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 18, 2018, 08:51:56 PM
Why move Richardson tho? DCL up front and Bernard playing in the 10. That's keeping players in their positions, something it's about time we tried doing.

This seems right to me, play Siggy next to Gana OR Schneiderlin, since we see how poorly the AND works out.  Think he might complement Gana rather nicely.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: kramer0 on September 18, 2018, 09:46:02 PM
This seems right to me, play Siggy next to Gana OR Schneiderlin, since we see how poorly the AND works out.  Think he might complement Gana rather nicely.

I don't think dropping Sigurdsson deeper is going to do anything. We need someone who gets on the ball a lot and passes it forward. From what I've seen for club and country, Sigurdsson isn't aggressive enough at seeking the ball and his quality as a passer is questionable at best. We need an entirely different sort of player in that area. We can't expect him to do something he's never done before.

At some point, Silva needs to consider Dowell as a starter, just to see what he can offer at this level. He showed some serious promise as an open play passer in the Championship last season and he's pretty good from dead ball situations, too.

On the topic of Calvert-Lewin... he should have had the second half of last season to play regularly and develop since we had absolutely nothing to play for. We never should have bothered signing Tosun.

Since we didn't do that then, I think we need to have a serious look now. He's clearly not a winger. Play him in his natural position and see what he can do, especially with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2018, 10:03:57 PM
I don't think dropping Sigurdsson deeper is going to do anything. We need someone who gets on the ball a lot and passes it forward. From what I've seen for club and country, Sigurdsson isn't aggressive enough at seeking the ball and his quality as a passer is questionable at best. We need an entirely different sort of player in that area. We can't expect him to do something he's never done before.

At some point, Silva needs to consider Dowell as a starter, just to see what he can offer at this level. He showed some serious promise as an open play passer in the Championship last season and he's pretty good from dead ball situations, too.

On the topic of Calvert-Lewin... he should have had the second half of last season to play regularly and develop since we had absolutely nothing to play for. We never should have bothered signing Tosun.

Since we didn't do that then, I think we need to have a serious look now. He's clearly not a winger. Play him in his natural position and see what he has to offer at this level, especially with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.

His ability on the ball and technique is genuinely very, very good though. Surely we can force him into getting on the ball more...

My feeling is try him in CM and force him on to the ball. Gylfi - every time Gana has the ball, run over to him and take it.

 In the 10 he can hide, and naturally does so because he hasnít got the ability to create separation between him and a defender, but if he gets a bit of room that someone else makes him he can hit a shot (world class striker of the ball imo). When he does get pressed he drops to the ground and hopes for a free kick.

He can execute almost anything I think, but he just doesnít do enough of it because he spends the whole game hiding like a Milford Man.

Dowell is due a chance at some point, CM or 10 I really donít mind, but I would like to see it yes.

DCL couldnít agree more.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: kramer0 on September 18, 2018, 10:08:34 PM
His ability on the ball and technique is genuinely very, very good though. Surely we can force him into getting on the ball more...

My feeling is try him in CM and force him on to the ball. Gylfi - every time Gana has the ball, run over to him and take it.

 In the 10 he can hide, and naturally does so because he hasnít got the ability to create separation between him and a defender, but if he gets a bit of room that someone else makes him he can hit a shot (world class striker of the ball imo). When he does get pressed he drops to the ground and hopes for a free kick.

He can execute almost anything I think, but he just doesnít do enough of it because he spends the whole game hiding like a Milford Man.

I don't think it's impossible but my default expectation is that a 29 year old will not learn an entirely new way of playing a game he's already played for so long.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2018, 10:37:42 PM
I don't think it's impossible but my default expectation is that a 29 year old will not learn an entirely new way of playing a game he's already played for so long.

Yeah I get it, I get it.

Find the whole thing extremely frustrating because it does feel like having a Ferrari with no steering wheel sat in the driveway.

Terrible waste of money that we didnít need to do, still not sure who was buying who out of kenwright, moshiri, Walsh and Koeman at that time. I just know for some reason the remit was Ďbig wages and nearly 30í.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Lxxx on September 18, 2018, 10:47:07 PM
I don't think it's impossible but my default expectation is that a 29 year old will not learn an entirely new way of playing a game he's already played for so long.

Players with intelligence adapt their game continuously as they age.

I don't see any reason Sig can't do what Schneiderlin does and more. Tell Gana to play with a bit more discipline and at the very least we get an extra option going forwards, as evidenced within minutes on Sunday. We've got to find a home for Sig and playing where he does now doesn't offer what it should.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 18, 2018, 10:48:48 PM
I don't think dropping Sigurdsson deeper is going to do anything. We need someone who gets on the ball a lot and passes it forward. From what I've seen for club and country, Sigurdsson isn't aggressive enough at seeking the ball and his quality as a passer is questionable at best. We need an entirely different sort of player in that area. We can't expect him to do something he's never done before.

At some point, Silva needs to consider Dowell as a starter, just to see what he can offer at this level. He showed some serious promise as an open play passer in the Championship last season and he's pretty good from dead ball situations, too.

On the topic of Calvert-Lewin... he should have had the second half of last season to play regularly and develop since we had absolutely nothing to play for. We never should have bothered signing Tosun.

Since we didn't do that then, I think we need to have a serious look now. He's clearly not a winger. Play him in his natural position and see what he can do, especially with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.

I just don't see it with Dowell, similar to how you don't see it with Siggy.  But if dropping him deeper beside Gana doesn't produce results by Christmas, I'd be glad to give Dowell a run.  You can't bang your head into a brick wall forever.

If we are to try a #10, I think our most natural fit is the "angry terrier" Bernard, though.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: TheRam on September 18, 2018, 10:57:56 PM
Yeah I get it, I get it.

Find the whole thing extremely frustrating because it does feel like having a Ferrari with no steering wheel sat in the driveway.

Terrible waste of money that we didnít need to do, still not sure who was buying who out of kenwright, moshiri, Walsh and Koeman at that time. I just know for some reason the remit was Ďbig wages and nearly 30í.

Koeman signing all day that

He was lazy in the market and just saturated the squad with bog standard premiere league players because he didnít know anything else.

For all the stick Walsh gets he could still pick you up a gem (Lookman, Henry O) and be creative in the market with signings like Sandro.

Koeman is the one to blame for signings like Bolasie, Williams, Sigurdsson, Morgan. He has form for doing this sort of thing at other clubs and it can take years to recover from it.

I said at the time Sigurdsson is a signing we shouldnít be making at all but a lot of us weíre stoned under a cloud of making everyoneís head fall off because weíre spending money and went along with it.

25mil at most we shouldíve spent on him, even then I wouldíve been sceptical.

ĎItís not your money so why are you bothered how much he costsí people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesnít fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because heís our record signing.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2018, 11:00:28 PM
We've got to find a home for Sig and playing where he does now doesn't offer what it should.

China, UAE maybe
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: kramer0 on September 18, 2018, 11:30:14 PM
I just don't see it with Dowell, similar to how you don't see it with Siggy.

Not similar. Sigurdsson has played enough football for Everton to make a reasonable judgment. Dowell, not so much.

Fair enough if you don't rate him but it's not similar.

Quote
But if dropping him deeper beside Gana doesn't produce results by Christmas, I'd be glad to give Dowell a run.  You can't bang your head into a brick wall forever.

Until Christmas is going to be a lot of head banging.

Players with intelligence adapt their game continuously as they age.

I think this is one of the issues for me -- I don't see Sigurdsson as being all that intelligent of a player.

25mil at most we shouldíve spent on him, even then I wouldíve been sceptical.

ĎItís not your money so why are you bothered how much he costsí people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesnít fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because heís our record signing.

I would have rather we burned £25m than made the deal we made.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 19, 2018, 12:10:13 AM
Koeman signing all day that

He was lazy in the market and just saturated the squad with bog standard premiere league players because he didnít know anything else.

For all the stick Walsh gets he could still pick you up a gem (Lookman, Henry O) and be creative in the market with signings like Sandro.

Koeman is the one to blame for signings like Bolasie, Williams, Sigurdsson, Morgan. He has form for doing this sort of thing at other clubs and it can take years to recover from it.

I said at the time Sigurdsson is a signing we shouldnít be making at all but a lot of us weíre stoned under a cloud of making everyoneís head fall off because weíre spending money and went along with it.

25mil at most we shouldíve spent on him, even then I wouldíve been sceptical.

ĎItís not your money so why are you bothered how much he costsí people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesnít fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because heís our record signing.

Think koeman thought heíd found his perfect job. Load of big money signings from lesser sides without much thought. Weíd finish 7th comfortably for minimum work and heíd take the 8m a year until something better came up.

He genuinely didnít give a fuck about balance, squad building or even value.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 19, 2018, 12:14:18 AM
Sigurdsson is as bad a signing as is possible. Obviously thereís been much bigger flops but you could at least see the potential of them moves. We got exactly what his entire career suggested we would. He wasnít suitable, good enough or reasonable value at the point of purchase. Real mismanagement.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 19, 2018, 12:41:32 AM
Not similar. Sigurdsson has played enough football for Everton to make a reasonable judgment. Dowell, not so much.

Fair enough if you don't rate him but it's not similar.

Until Christmas is going to be a lot of head banging.

I think this is one of the issues for me -- I don't see Sigurdsson as being all that intelligent of a player.

I would have rather we burned £25m than made the deal we made.

I get what you're saying, I really do.  And I respect what you say, which gives me heavy pause on Siggy, who I think has mostly suffered the weight of expectations and the difficulty settling into his role amidst all the personnel and drastic stylistic shifts.  That's why I say "until Christmas" - I think that is a fair run, given how much we have invested and how much change there has been overall.  You still have plenty of time to work with Gomes/Dowell afterwards, and can even try those two in Cup play if you like.

With Dowell, I just don't think he's fast or quick (maybe both, I have trouble putting my finger on which) to cut it at the Premiership level.  I think his ceiling is "squad player."  Readily admit I could easily be wrong, that is just my impression from what I have seen, which admittedly hasn't been that much (but does include some U20/21/23, forget which, international play).

The only sharp point of departure is football intelligence, which I think Siggy has in spades. I don't think he could have led Iceland as far as he did internationally without it, and I still see it in bursts with us.  What I see more with him at Everton is more uncertainty, which I put down to confidence/change issues.  Again, he can't have unlimited time to "get over it" but this is a transition season, and I think it's worth a run of games to really, really try.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 19, 2018, 01:59:15 AM
Sigurdsson is as bad a signing as is possible. Obviously thereís been much bigger flops but you could at least see the potential of them moves. We got exactly what his entire career suggested we would. He wasnít suitable, good enough or reasonable value at the point of purchase. Real mismanagement.
Awful signing , understood the Sandro gamble at the money but Sigurdsson was nuts.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Normm on September 19, 2018, 06:30:50 AM
With Dowell, I just don't think he's fast or quick (maybe both, I have trouble putting my finger on which) to cut it at the Premiership level.  I think his ceiling is "squad player."  Readily admit I could easily be wrong, that is just my impression from what I have seen, which admittedly hasn't been that much (but does include some U20/21/23, forget which, international play).

He's very talented but seems to lack grit and determination - but I would put that down to his age and inexperience. He needs to show more fighting spirit and not allow himself to be pushed off the ball so easily - even by members of his own team!
I think he could be far better than just a squad player, imo.

DCL has played best as CF. I can't understand why he keeps being placed out wide.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: bigmanbob on September 19, 2018, 07:02:28 PM
So we've moved on from Tosun to Sigurdsson now, wow, boss us
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: brap2 on September 19, 2018, 07:05:11 PM
So we've moved on from Tosun to Sigurdsson now, wow, boss us

Shame we canít say the same about them two
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluenose 91 on September 19, 2018, 07:16:07 PM
Slagging off of Sigurdsson is way over the top imo.

Get we paid too much but he's nowhere near as poor as some of the carry on I'm reading here.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 19, 2018, 07:24:38 PM
ĎItís not your money so why are you bothered how much he costsí people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesnít fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because heís our record signing.

Thatís not on Koeman though. Thatís on Silva. Be disappointed if he picks his team based on what previous, failed managers paid for players.
Title: Re: DCL - kidding ourselves
Post by: Bluenose 91 on September 19, 2018, 07:27:16 PM
He's also our only midfielder to actually score so far as well.

Mad seeing people pick teams with Davies or Dowell in there over him.