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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Bluedylan on October 29, 2017, 05:56:02 AM

Title: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 29, 2017, 05:56:02 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/27/a-brief-guide-to-everton-and-why-they-think-they-deserve-better

Quote
Four years ago, at a time when Everton were neither hiring nor firing, a banner starting cropping up at their games. “The School of Science: Re-opened 6th June 2013”, it read, the date corresponding to Roberto Martinez’s appointment as manager. Martinez – held up as a visionary after his spells at Swansea and Wigan – would spend three seasons in charge and, by the end of that time, the early luster had completely faded. The football still sparkled at times, sure, but their underbelly was grievously soft and consecutive 11th-place finishes compounded the sense that they were going nowhere in a hurry.

So what was all that about science? It is hardly the first word you would associate with the sludge Everton served up under Ronald Koeman, who succeeded Martinez for a mere 58 games, during a one-paced and dreary opening quarter of this season. There was nothing cutting-edge about it and nor, under the auspices of an increasingly curt and aloof coach, was there the warmth and common touch that the club took such pride in along with its progressive edge.

Everton’s supporters are not especially known for demanding the moon on a stick but, with hindsight, perhaps that banner was a slightly forced attempt to recapture something that made their club feel unique. They expect more than they have been getting and you can nudge the dial back almost a century to find out why. It was 1928 and Everton, Division One winners that year and scorers of 102 goals in the process, were an absolute delight to watch. Dixie Dean, their local hero of a hot-shot striker, scored a never-beaten 60 league goals that year. Steve Bloomer, the one-time Derby and Middlesbrough striker, was among those enamored by the overall package and observed: “They always manage to serve up football of the highest scientific order.”

And so, almost by osmosis, the ‘School of Science’ nickname seeped into the consciousness, soon being appropriated by the club. It set a standard that Everton, who would subsequently be relegated but bounced back to win their fourth and fifth league titles before the Second World War, have sought to match ever since. In material terms that has happened sporadically: to start with there were the marvellous league championships won by Harry Catterick’s side in 1962-63 and 1969-70, which sandwiched an FA Cup win and a run of European campaigns. The midfield of Colin Harvey, Alan Ball and Howard Kendall, so dominant during the late 1960s and early 1970s, became known as the ‘Holy Trinity’ and, for many, embodied the guile and precision the ‘School of Science’ was meant to promote. Then there was, perhaps more familiarly, the superb Kendall era of the 1980s, the playing legend now directing matters from the dugout and bringing two more titles, an FA Cup and a European Cup Winners’ Cup in 1985. At that stage in their history they had won the top flight on more occasions than Manchester United.


Everton were brilliant back then and have only very rarely threatened anything of the sort in the Premier League era – an FA Cup final win over United under Joe Royle in 1994-95, which followed the previous season’s daredevil escape from the drop, proving to be rather thin gruel. Last season’s seventh-placed finish with Koeman in charge was befitting of their present-day status: more often than not sitting right on the coat tails of the leading lights but unable to seriously threaten them, their financial power lagging a step or two behind as well.

Last year’s takeover by Farhad Moshiri has raised the stakes and made it rather easier to dispose of Koeman when £140m of summer transfer spending quickly began to look misplaced. But Everton has never been a place where dynastic levels of success have been expected even if the club motto, Nil Satis Nisi Optimum (Nothing But The Best Is Good Enough) might suggest otherwise: their most fruitful spells have all been separated by a decade or two and that is an accurate reflection of their historical status. The ‘School of Science’ tag was never entirely trophy-dependent: it was more an identity, an approach to the game, a kind of romance, and one that also helped preserve Everton’s sense of self during the lengthy spells when their city rivals, Liverpool, conquered the continent.

But it was not all. Something else Everton supporters felt they had lost in the Koeman era, and a facet all the more important to retain after that big-money takeover and with plans for a shiny new stadium in the works, was that sense of community. There was a feeling he never really understood the club and that, perhaps more than any slick technical football, has always been a minimum requirement at Goodison Park. When David Moyes became Everton manager in 2002 he referred to a listing ship as “the people’s club on Merseyside”. Moyes went on to keep Everton punching high, finishing in the top six five times, and performing marginally better than their relative level of resource. The style was frequently more artisanal than artistic but they were, in a way, everyone’s favourite little big club: Moyes knew what he was doing in openly handing them to the people, furthering the distinction from the behemoth on the other side of Stanley Park and tapping into the passion that has always coursed through Goodison’s cramped, rickety, impossibly atmospheric stands.

It is an impression that, until now, Everton have managed to maintain: that of a significant English club with a certain old-world charm; a club moulded, for now at least, among the tight streets of their northern Liverpool home. Nobody would pretend their faithful have completely avoided the modern ills of extreme impatience and overanalysis, but it has generally been a bastion of realism brushed with a little stardust. The problem for Koeman, in the end, was that the old ardor had been dulled and the science had gone bad.


What d'you reckon? Is that a fair assessment of the club and the psychology of our fans?

(it's worth reading the comments section of the article as well, to read the impression that some non-Everton fans have of us, both positive and negative)
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 29, 2017, 06:05:33 AM
Pretty good article. Not necessarily 100% of what I believe but, from the outside, a good crack at summarising where we are.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 01:09:23 PM
Seems accurate. No-one is really that arsed about Everton apart from us. The media give us a wide berth, other teams regard us as a plucky little club and we’re way down the list of international coverage.

Moshiri has tried to change that by trying to go from D to B without C first. He really needs a manager now who wants to put some foundations in, who cares enough to want to do it organically over the next few years with smart, young acquisitions not vanity buys.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 29, 2017, 01:22:54 PM
Can't complain about that. Relatively positive spin on what we like to think of ourselves.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: ally2 on October 29, 2017, 01:30:34 PM
I agree and think it says what everyone knows already. I can only vaguely remember the team of the 80's and I don't remember us playing a particularly scientific brand of football then either.

I am slightly concerned that our fan base values work rate so much. I do too but I don't want us to be a bunch of run-a-rounds. Compare us to say Manchester City who, even when they weren't very good, always seemed to me to have classy players and played decent stuff.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: blue1948 on October 29, 2017, 02:10:36 PM
Some ofit was hard to read but quite accurate ,the decades between golden spells and so on but I suspect were he to write a similar article on other teams we would come out quite well.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Simon Paul on October 29, 2017, 02:25:55 PM
Can't really argue with any of that can we?
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Coyb12 on October 29, 2017, 02:34:34 PM
Can't really argue with any of that can we?
Nope and that's why the appointment of the next manager is huge.I think if we make unsy manager it's smacks of small time to me and we need to clear the decks of all this family fucking club shit how many clubs have a core of ex players running though it,we can forget about top managers and players like Sanchez and Ancholotti coming here unless Moshiri grows a pair starts sorting us out and the first thing is to take Kenwright and elstone out of the picture.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: GLewis on October 29, 2017, 02:49:01 PM
Nope and that's why the appointment of the next manager is huge.I think if we make unsy manager it's smacks of small time to me and we need to clear the decks of all this family fucking club shit how many clubs have a core of ex players running though it,we can forget about top managers and players like Sanchez and Ancholotti coming here unless Moshiri grows a pair starts sorting us out and the first thing is to take Kenwright and elstone out of the picture.

To be fair, Bayern, Barça, Real Madrid, Ajax always have strong former player representation
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Macca77 on October 29, 2017, 02:52:21 PM
Good read
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Coyb12 on October 29, 2017, 02:57:08 PM
To be fair, Bayern, Barça, Real Madrid, Ajax always have strong former player representation
I understand what you are saying mate but they have a history of winning quite a lot,and the stature of player is a lot different we are thinking about Unsworth Madrid had Zidane I know that's a bit unfair but for me it needs to change.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 29, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Just another condescending article,the walkthrough of our history over the last 50 years is nothing any half knowledgeable blue wouldnt know or care about.We as a club have reached the heights being the Merseyside millionaires under the Moores in the 60,s/70,s and a great manager in the 80,s.To get us out of this cosy mediocre media perception,we need a combination of both cash and leader as yet the two havent combined.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 29, 2017, 03:24:35 PM
I suspect it might be quite fair. But I didn't like it.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Goaljira on October 29, 2017, 03:55:59 PM
Nope and that's why the appointment of the next manager is huge.I think if we make unsy manager it's smacks of small time to me and we need to clear the decks of all this family fucking club shit how many clubs have a core of ex players running though it,we can forget about top managers and players like Sanchez and Ancholotti coming here unless Moshiri grows a pair starts sorting us out and the first thing is to take Kenwright and elstone out of the picture.

You want Everton to become a standard faceless interchangable with one of 50 teams club? 

Me, I'm made up Everton is a family club who values its history and tries to do what it can for its former players if theyre qualified to do so.

I love what we do through EITC.  I love how well our former players speak of us.  I love how a lot of players and officials not connected to the club speak about us and how they felt when visiting Goodison.

Theres things that we've done that don't befit the clubs history, yes.  Moshiri's relationship with Jim White being one of them.  But to say its small time to potentially promote our U23 title winning coach who's in his third spell with the club, who talks so well and with such enthusiasm, who's done his badges and been away and learned the ropes elsewhere doesnt even get to be considered just because your gobshite mates might make a comment about it being 'small time'?  Fuck off.

You're just a fucking crank who if you won the lottery you'd moan it wasnt a rollover week.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: GLewis on October 29, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
Just another condescending article,the walkthrough of our history over the last 50 years is nothing any half knowledgeable blue wouldnt know or care about.We as a club have reached the heights being the Merseyside millionaires under the Moores in the 60,s/70,s and a great manager in the 80,s.To get us out of this cosy mediocre media perception,we need a combination of both cash and leader as yet the two havent combined.

It’s written for Americans (or more specifically new supporters of football).
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: GLewis on October 29, 2017, 04:07:43 PM
I understand what you are saying mate but they have a history of winning quite a lot,and the stature of player is a lot different we are thinking about Unsworth Madrid had Zidane I know that's a bit unfair but for me it needs to change.

Not saying that we should or shouldn’t have former players as managers. We should always aim for the best.

Some times the best will be external sometimes there will be scenarios where having someone who knows the club means that they will work better than a seemingly better external option.

But I meant that they have former players throughout the club from youth coaches to board members.

That’s because they recognise the importance of putting across the club’s values, traditions and links to supporter expectations etc.

Fans are obviously the most continuous presence at a club but they very rarely have any say in decision making etc. Former players are the most representative alternative.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Coyb12 on October 29, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
You want Everton to become a standard faceless interchangable with one of 50 teams club? 

Me, I'm made up Everton is a family club who values its history and tries to do what it can for its former players if theyre qualified to do so.

I love what we do through EITC.  I love how well our former players speak of us.  I love how a lot of players and officials not connected to the club speak about us and how they felt when visiting Goodison.

Theres things that we've done that don't befit the clubs history, yes.  Moshiri's relationship with Jim White being one of them.  But to say its small time to potentially promote our U23 title winning coach who's in his third spell with the club, who talks so well and with such enthusiasm, who's done his badges and been away and learned the ropes elsewhere doesnt even get to be considered just because your gobshite mates might make a comment about it being 'small time'?  Fuck off.

You're just a fucking crank who if you won the lottery you'd moan it wasnt a rollover week.
I'm not arsed what you think I am,I am arsed we don't win fuck all and haven't for years,and you seem happy for our owner to go on telly and try to sell a player,fucking jim white how fucking embarrassing,Badges win fuck all niether will Unsworth, Ferguson loves Everton shall we make him boss or Reid or heath or Derek mountfield,have a look at the table have a look 20years back,Franny Jeffers couldn't wait to get out the club shit on us were is he said and then Baxter,fuck off dipshit.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 29, 2017, 06:22:53 PM
Just another condescending article,the walkthrough of our history over the last 50 years is nothing any half knowledgeable blue wouldnt know or care about.We as a club have reached the heights being the Merseyside millionaires under the Moores in the 60,s/70,s and a great manager in the 80,s.To get us out of this cosy mediocre media perception,we need a combination of both cash and leader as yet the two havent combined.
It wasn't just written for us. Are you aware of the background issues at Bournemouth over the last few years?
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 29, 2017, 06:28:00 PM
I'm not arsed what you think I am,I am arsed we don't win fuck all and haven't for years,and you seem happy for our owner to go on telly and try to sell a player,fucking jim white how fucking embarrassing,Badges win fuck all niether will Unsworth, Ferguson loves Everton shall we make him boss or Reid or heath or Derek mountfield,have a look at the table have a look 20years back,Franny Jeffers couldn't wait to get out the club shit on us were is he said and then Baxter,fuck off dipshit.
It doesn't sound like you 'get' Everton. There is so much more to our club, to any club, than what you believe. It's a shame you can't experience it but when we improve there should be still be enough to keep you going for a while.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 29, 2017, 07:25:24 PM
It wasn't just written for us. Are you aware of the background issues at Bournemouth over the last few years?
Dont give a fuck about Bournemouth,there are enough issues here to keep me occupied
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 29, 2017, 09:23:07 PM
Exactly my point people at Bournemouth probably don't care about us but the article is written for an audience who know little about other clubs.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Coyb12 on October 30, 2017, 02:29:31 AM
It doesn't sound like you 'get' Everton. There is so much more to our club, to any club, than what you believe. It's a shame you can't experience it but when we improve there should be still be enough to keep you going for a while.
,I've been getting everton for over 40 years mate so fuck off with your stupid fucking comment about GETTING our club,I get that they have won fuck all for over 20years and it doesn't look like changing but that alright because we care about the community just fuck off.

Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 06:13:49 AM
,I've been getting everton for over 40 years mate so fuck off with your stupid fucking comment about GETTING our club,I get that they have won fuck all for over 20years and it doesn't look like changing but that alright because we care about the community just fuck off.



Touchy aren't you.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: plowman2 on October 30, 2017, 06:36:44 AM
Both interesting and fair whether we like it or not.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 30, 2017, 08:36:04 AM
,I've been getting everton for over 40 years mate so fuck off with your stupid fucking comment about GETTING our club,I get that they have won fuck all for over 20years and it doesn't look like changing but that alright because we care about the community just fuck off.
I'm just stating the obvious. I obviously get much more for my money than you do. Good times - bad times - that's life.  I've seen them all but for me there is something in addition to winning trophies, there is the whole experience of being an Evertonian.  ☺
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Coyb12 on October 30, 2017, 12:50:58 PM
I'm just stating the obvious. I obviously get much more for my money than you do. Good times - bad times - that's life.  I've seen them all but for me there is something in addition to winning trophies, there is the whole experience of being an Evertonian.  ☺
It's that you Bill,the whole experience of being an Evertonian shut up mate.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 30, 2017, 06:06:04 PM
It's that you Bill,the whole experience of being an Evertonian shut up mate.
Have a nice day.😊
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 30, 2017, 06:33:39 PM
fair, reasonable, makes me want to hang myself all over again.  I spent much of last week down the rabbit hole of old 1980s Everton YouTube videos, it might as well been a funereal montage.

Jesus wept, we need another Trevor Steven (h/t, Blarg)
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Gary1878 on October 30, 2017, 07:19:16 PM
What words would you use to sum up Everton fans? I think most would say that we are proud, traditional, passionate and loyal.

How would you describe our club? Historic, traditional (again), friendly?

We have a great football club, but we need to decide what direction we want for our football club, and how far we are willing to move away from our past/present values in order to progress onto the next stage.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: ally2 on October 30, 2017, 07:40:55 PM
School of science? More like school of history I'm afraid to say.
Title: Re: Interesting article...is it fair?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 30, 2017, 08:58:27 PM
fair, reasonable, makes me want to hang myself all over again. 

Not being difficult here, but you should probably reign in the constant suicide/self harm references. (Unless they arent false and you truly feel that way, in that case, please get help)

The reason i say that is reading things like hanging, cutting wrists, etc can be very triggering for people. And we do have a few on here going through depression. And countless others im sure who arent registered.

Im not being a square here, but i do shudder when i read explicit suicide stuff. Its not nice.

I hope you are ok EiNC.