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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Simon Paul on November 01, 2017, 01:18:42 AM

Title: Perspective
Post by: Simon Paul on November 01, 2017, 01:18:42 AM
Just seen a tweet @ nsno that "we are in a relegation battle and it's mid season"


Well no, it's not is it?


We are 10 games in to a 38 game season.


We have 28 games to turn things around, and we WILL turn it around.  No matter who comes in.


Before Unsworth took charge of a single game there were wild celebrations from the same people who are now down in the dumps and desperate for Allardyce to come in and save us.


Fuck off.


84 points are up for grabs at the moment and we only need another 30 to stay up.


Your mum could achieve that with this Everton squad.


If the manager the club want isn't available until the summer it's not the end of the world.  We will stay up, and we will move on from the disaster that was Ronald Koeman.


The next appointment is crucial - but then so was the last one - so we need to get it even less wrong than we got Koeman.


There's no need to panic-buy a journeyman manager whose dad dance is the highlight of your season.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: TheTone on November 01, 2017, 01:24:12 AM
It's the manner of many of the losses though

We're being well beaten rather than losing unluckily by the odd goal

Any combination of the back 4 have been diabolical

The midfield is badly out of form

Up front we can't rely on anyone to score

We're in massive trouble here and any new manager will have a huge job on their hands

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: sirblue57 on November 01, 2017, 01:24:57 AM
Just seen a tweet @ nsno that "we are in a relegation battle and it's mid season"


Well no, it's not is it?


We are 10 games in to a 38 game season.


We have 28 games to turn things around, and we WILL turn it around.  No matter who comes in.


Before Unsworth took charge of a single game there were wild celebrations from the same people who are now down in the dumps and desperate for Allardyce to come in and save us.


Fuck off.


84 points are up for grabs at the moment and we only need another 30 to stay up.


Your mum could achieve that with this Everton squad.


If the manager the club want isn't available until the summer it's not the end of the world.  We will stay up, and we will move on from the disaster that was Ronald Koeman.


The next appointment is crucial - but then so was the last one - so we need to get it even less wrong than we got Koeman.


There's no need to panic-buy a journeyman manager whose dad dance is the highlight of your season.
  at least someone has some sense, I was beginning to wonder how low this site had gone.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 01, 2017, 01:26:34 AM
We've got less of a goal threat than Sunderland had last year.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Simon Paul on November 01, 2017, 01:27:30 AM
It's the manner of many of the losses though

We're being well beaten rather than losing unluckily by the odd goal

Any combination of the back 4 have been diabolical

The midfield is badly out of form

Up front we can't rely on anyone to score

We're in massive trouble here and any new manager will have a huge job on their hands



Chelsea didn't beat us "well" - they were lucky to hold on.  We wouldn't have been lucky winners if we'd got a second and taken them to penalties even.

Leicester - the back four need to take a long hard look at themselves.  There's no way on earth ANY manager told them to do what they did in the first half.

That's all we've seen from Rhino, but he's instilled some battle and some fight already.

If we get a result against Watford we move up to about 13th and we go into the international break smiling.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Heisenberg on November 01, 2017, 01:31:16 AM
Just seen a tweet @ nsno that "we are in a relegation battle and it's mid season"


Well no, it's not is it?


We are 10 games in to a 38 game season.


We have 28 games to turn things around, and we WILL turn it around.  No matter who comes in.


Before Unsworth took charge of a single game there were wild celebrations from the same people who are now down in the dumps and desperate for Allardyce to come in and save us.


Fuck off.


84 points are up for grabs at the moment and we only need another 30 to stay up.


Your mum could achieve that with this Everton squad.


If the manager the club want isn't available until the summer it's not the end of the world.  We will stay up, and we will move on from the disaster that was Ronald Koeman.


The next appointment is crucial - but then so was the last one - so we need to get it even less wrong than we got Koeman.


There's no need to panic-buy a journeyman manager whose dad dance is the highlight of your season.

this is my feelings on it completely. There is also a transefer window were we WILL buy a striker or loan one at least. We have time
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 01, 2017, 01:31:46 AM
On the upside Simon them Everton Poppy's were very neat.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: van der Meyde on November 01, 2017, 01:34:54 AM
Get that sent to Farhad.

And while you're at it, maybe have a word with Walshy and put the brakes on the "proven Premier League talent" he'll have lined up for us.

Fuck all this short termism. Let's have a bit of perspective and vision please.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Simon Paul on November 01, 2017, 01:35:00 AM
On the upside Simon them Everton Poppy's were very neat.

had loads of comments on mine mate, looks very smart
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2017, 01:40:35 AM
Think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

We havenít played well for 90 minutes this season, we have no goal threat and our defending is a shambles.

No of course weíre not down already but letís not think itís going to be a walk in the park to get out of this. Weíre as bad a team as there is in the league at the minute, even Palace can call upon Benteke when heís fit.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 01, 2017, 01:46:53 AM
Just seen a tweet @ nsno that "we are in a relegation battle and it's mid season"


Well no, it's not is it?


We are 10 games in to a 38 game season.


We have 28 games to turn things around, and we WILL turn it around.  No matter who comes in.


Before Unsworth took charge of a single game there were wild celebrations from the same people who are now down in the dumps and desperate for Allardyce to come in and save us.


Fuck off.


84 points are up for grabs at the moment and we only need another 30 to stay up.


Your mum could achieve that with this Everton squad.


If the manager the club want isn't available until the summer it's not the end of the world.  We will stay up, and we will move on from the disaster that was Ronald Koeman.


The next appointment is crucial - but then so was the last one - so we need to get it even less wrong than we got Koeman.


There's no need to panic-buy a journeyman manager whose dad dance is the highlight of your season.

I agree we shouldn't be panicking to the extent of not seeing a bigger picture with the managerial appointment.

However, what are you looking at in this Everton squad that makes you think this is an easy job? This team could play for another 2 months and barely score a handful of goals. That is before we get to the rickety defence and the midfield issues. This is not an easy job and why it's so important to get the appointment right and for it to happen ASAP.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Macca77 on November 01, 2017, 01:51:39 AM
We'll beat Watford on Sunday
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lazarou on November 01, 2017, 02:06:10 AM
I think we have right to be worried as there is no evidence to suggest we should not be. Until performances improve then I cannot see why everyone should not be worried. We have looked a shambles in the pre season friendlies, the league, the fizzy drink cup and europe. One decent performance against City is all I can think of that has been anywhere near the standard required.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Simon Paul on November 01, 2017, 02:09:13 AM
I think we have right to be worried as there is no evidence to suggest we should not be. Until performances improve then I cannot see why everyone should not be worried. We have looked a shambles in the pre season friendlies, the league, the fizzy drink cup and europe. One decent performance against City is all I can think of that has been anywhere near the standard required.

And we've got rid of the clown responsible for those performances
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 02:10:55 AM
I'm not sure anyone seriously thinks we are going down but the flip side of that is that we actually have way more points than we deserve.
I do think we are in some trouble if we don't start to at least see improvements in performances soon. Think we are in some trouble if we continue with some of the same team selections that simply haven't worked

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 02:13:05 AM
And we've got rid of the clown responsible for those performances

It's not quite as simple as that though. Our full backs and strikers are still pretty dreadful. Might be the worst in the league. We've got plenty of decent players but the holes are almost impossible to plug until the new year
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: kramer0 on November 01, 2017, 02:18:41 AM
Think we are in some trouble if we continue with some of the same team selections that simply haven't worked

Unsworth has had only two games in charge and, despite getting the midfield wrong against Leicester, he hasn't put out anything like some of the shambolic teams that Koeman picked. Players are being chosen in their natural positions, our spacing is good, and we've actually been able to control the ball some. Another week on the training ground should see even better organization and less of the individual errors that cost us goals last week (losing Rudiger on a corner kick, Davies and Gana pursuing the ball too aggressively after a free kick, Kenny missing his clearance).

I still honestly believe that Unsworth is the right man until May. Results are on the way. Only a little more patience is required.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blargins on November 01, 2017, 02:21:58 AM
3 points and weíre mid table
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 02:36:08 AM
Unsworth has had only two games in charge and, despite getting the midfield wrong against Leicester, he hasn't put out anything like some of the shambolic teams that Koeman picked. Players are being chosen in their natural positions, our spacing is good, and we've actually been able to control the ball some. Another week on the training ground should see even better organization and less of the individual errors that cost us goals last week (losing Rudiger on a corner kick, Davies and Gana pursuing the ball too aggressively after a free kick, Kenny missing his clearance).

I still honestly believe that Unsworth is the right man until May. Results are on the way. Only a little more patience is required.

I hope you're right. To be honest I'm not desperate for us to make an appointment. I'd be reasonably happy with a few on the list (including the 2 names people seem horrified by) but I'm also not massively delighted by any of them.

I do have a real issue with Sandro and Vlasic not being in the squad though and lookman not getting any minutes. Tend to think all 3 decisions aren't easy to explain away.
Think if DCL plays til Jan we'll be in the bottom 3 at least til then. We have to search for something that works better and the fact that the other obvious option in sandro wasn't even in contention I find a massive worry
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 01, 2017, 02:41:04 AM
Weíve been awful and canít defend or score - thatís fact and thatís why weíre worried.

Saying weíll get better is pure conjecture and thereís so evidence of it. Pure arrogance.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: bluenuck on November 01, 2017, 02:42:32 AM
It's the manner of many of the losses though

We're being well beaten rather than losing unluckily by the odd goal

Any combination of the back 4 have been diabolical

The midfield is badly out of form

Up front we can't rely on anyone to score

We're in massive trouble here and any new manager will have a huge job on their hands

While I think @Simon Paul (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1)  is right that we should keep our heads about us and we shouldn't start freaking out, I also think with every thing he said this ^^^ also has to be taken into account. We look very bad and I can't see where goals are going to come from. We have to score if we want to move up the table.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 01, 2017, 02:51:13 AM
The year Joe Royale saved us he took over in the 14th game and we were not safe until the penultimate game of the season. We need to address our current situation very soon.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Simon Paul on November 01, 2017, 03:06:47 AM
We've been awful and can't defend or score - that's fact and that's why we're worried.

Saying we'll get better is pure conjecture and there's so evidence of it. Pure arrogance.

I do possess phenomenal footballing arrogance to be fair

But we have 28 games to sort this. We will sort this. The panic is pure embarrassment at the moment.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: kramer0 on November 01, 2017, 03:07:27 AM
I hope you're right. To be honest I'm not desperate for us to make an appointment. I'd be reasonably happy with a few on the list (including the 2 names people seem horrified by) but I'm also not massively delighted by any of them.

I do have a real issue with Sandro and Vlasic not being in the squad though and lookman not getting any minutes. Tend to think all 3 decisions aren't easy to explain away.
Think if DCL plays til Jan we'll be in the bottom 3 at least til then. We have to search for something that works better and the fact that the other obvious option in sandro wasn't even in contention I find a massive worry

We agree on Vlasic. He's earned the right to be in the starting eleven.

I understand the logic behind dropping Sandro... for now. He's had trouble with basic things like controlling the ball with his first touch and he's generally been shy about getting into the penalty area. I do agree that he needs another look, though. He's shown some nice direct passing, which we're really hurting for, and he's likely to look a lot better in a functional side.

Early indications are that Unsworth likes Lookman, as evidenced by him being on the bench ahead of Vlasic and Sandro. He will get his chances given time.

I'd actually add some players to your list. At some point, Unsworth has to bring Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, and Klaassen back into the team. All of those players are capable of contributing something, with the former two probably being worthy of starting places if they get back to even average form. Sigurdsson is going to be particularly important. For a team that has trouble scoring, set pieces are essential. And he's obviously capable of much better deliveries than what we've seen so far (see any of his Swansea seasons).

So, yeah. Unsworth's not been perfect but I still think there's a lot of promise in what he's shown so far.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Rhys on November 01, 2017, 03:16:21 AM
Weíve been awful and canít defend or score - thatís fact and thatís why weíre worried.

Saying weíll get better is pure conjecture and thereís so evidence of it. Pure arrogance.

You could say the same in 2005/6 when we lost 7 out of the first 8, went out of 2 European competitions and the league cup at the first rounds in all 3. We were bottom of the league well into October, around the bottom 3 going into the new year and came 11th.

It's very difficult to see where any points or form will come from when you havent had any so far. Plus it feels worse because while it is only 9 league games its 17 games in all competitions. The reality is we are 8 points off 7th which is Burnley and while it is guess work all round, I'd be willing to bet money they will slide as the season goes on, we rise and they arent near us from points perspective as the season ends.

Our squad has gaps clearly, where the goals are coming from is a hard question to answer. But even with this squad there is no way we will continue with only Rooney and Niasse as PL goalscorers. People like Sigurdssson, Mirallas if he plays, the centre midfielders, defenders from set pieces even will start chipping in with some goals. We wont score a lot or freely right now but defensively we can tighten up. Players are in rock bottom form, get some results see their confidence rise and if we start keeping some clean sheets we can start picking up results to get us up the league.

We arent likely to be anywhere near the top 6 but even with the problems we need to address in January, and the manager, can still aim for 7th because there are so many points to play for and there are so many poor teams in the league. Guesswork and who knows for sure what will happen, but it's 29 league games left there is no need for people to go into full panic mode like a lot seem to have done there is so much time and so many games to turn the form around, get some momentum and to get enough points.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 01, 2017, 03:24:26 AM
If this proud and noble club hires Sam Fucking Allardyce, it will be a disgrace and we would deserve to go down. End of.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 01, 2017, 03:29:39 AM
If this proud and noble club hires Sam Fucking Allardyce, it will be a disgrace and we would deserve to go down. End of.

I know. I mean who does Allardyce think he is? We won the FA Cup in 1995 you know!
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 01, 2017, 03:33:43 AM
Yes, I'm aware just now much the name Everton Football Club still means to you. I will keep my head raised higher than that, thanks.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 03:34:09 AM
If this proud and noble club hires Sam Fucking Allardyce, it will be a disgrace and we would deserve to go down. End of.

Are they not doing a league table based on results anymore. Surely the argument would be that if we hired him we'd deserve to stay up but never achieve anything more?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 03:36:48 AM
We agree on Vlasic. He's earned the right to be in the starting eleven.

I understand the logic behind dropping Sandro... for now. He's had trouble with basic things like controlling the ball with his first touch and he's generally been shy about getting into the penalty area. I do agree that he needs another look, though. He's shown some nice direct passing, which we're really hurting for, and he's likely to look a lot better in a functional side.

Early indications are that Unsworth likes Lookman, as evidenced by him being on the bench ahead of Vlasic and Sandro. He will get his chances given time.

I'd actually add some players to your list. At some point, Unsworth has to bring Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, and Klaassen back into the team. All of those players are capable of contributing something, with the former two probably being worthy of starting places if they get back to even average form. Sigurdsson is going to be particularly important. For a team that has trouble scoring, set pieces are essential. And he's obviously capable of much better deliveries than what we've seen so far (see any of his Swansea seasons).

So, yeah. Unsworth's not been perfect but I still think there's a lot of promise in what he's shown so far.

More than happy to see unsworth get more time and I was in favour of him getting the job. I just have a real fear that when we line up next weekend we'll be missing the exact same players. If that happens then he's a bit like Martinez as in can't fix what he doesn't see. Let's see who he picks for the Watford game
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Coyb12 on November 01, 2017, 03:56:43 AM
Unsworth has had only two games in charge and, despite getting the midfield wrong against Leicester, he hasn't put out anything like some of the shambolic teams that Koeman picked. Players are being chosen in their natural positions, our spacing is good, and we've actually been able to control the ball some. Another week on the training ground should see even better organization and less of the individual errors that cost us goals last week (losing Rudiger on a corner kick, Davies and Gana pursuing the ball too aggressively after a free kick, Kenny missing his clearance).

I still honestly believe that Unsworth is the right man until May. Results are on the way. Only a little more patience is required.
Anyone who picks Aaron Lennon and Mirrallas in the same team is fucked up.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 01, 2017, 04:06:09 AM
Made up with this thread☺ ...Unsy has had two games to sort out Koemans fucking debacle and some are losing their shit (fucking Allardyce )really ffs.

80 odd points on offer and people are desperate allready ...when was the last time someone was relagated before Christmas ?.
I'm far to optimistic or 'arrogant' allegedly to some to want that bung taking twat at our healm .

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 01, 2017, 04:06:31 AM
3 points and weíre mid table

3 pts and we'd be 15th or maybe sneak 14th due to goal difference, provided the teams above us didn't win either.

And if we lose? We could be second off bottom and needing a couple of wins to even get out of the bottom 3.

If we're trying to gain perspective, let's start off with facts. Sorry for being all Benitez.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on November 01, 2017, 04:15:36 AM
We need to get to around 20 points after xmas.We have time but in my opinion we have three absolutely crucial homes games which we MUST win and get 9 points from - West Ham, Huddersfield and Swansea. The key will be beating those teams and picking up the odd point away from home.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 01, 2017, 04:18:48 AM
I feel that I'm usually a pretty level headed blue, but looking at us I haven't seen a worse side in the league this year.

We look to me like a side in real, genuine trouble.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 01, 2017, 04:23:30 AM
Made up with this thread☺ ...Unsy has had two games to sort out Koemans fucking debacle and some are losing their shit (fucking Allardyce )really ffs.

80 odd points on offer and people are desperate allready ...when was the last time someone was relagated before Christmas ?.
I'm far to optimistic or 'arrogant' allegedly to some to want that bung taking twat at our healm .
I donít want Allerdyce. But Ďperspectiveí goes both ways. Mineís based on what Iíve witnessed this season. Obviously hope Iím wrong and more than happy to call myself out as being a big panicky gobshite if we turn a corner.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: The Analog Kid on November 01, 2017, 05:52:10 AM
Werenít we in a similar situation 04/05? We were in the bottom 3 or 4 at NYE with similar points, went up to Sunderland, played shite for 90 minutes until Cahill scored in the 91st minute to win the game, after which we went on a run and lost one of our remaining games from January to May, qualifying for Europe.

We should be used to this. Been here before and pulled through.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: The Analog Kid on November 01, 2017, 05:54:28 AM
I feel that I'm usually a pretty level headed blue, but looking at us I haven't seen a worse side in the league this year.

We look to me like a side in real, genuine trouble.

Palace and Bournemouth. Theyíre below us for a reason
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 01, 2017, 05:55:43 AM
Palace and Bournemouth. Theyíre below us for a reason

That doesn't really help when 3 teams go down.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: The Analog Kid on November 01, 2017, 05:57:54 AM
That doesn't really help when 3 teams go down.

We arenít going down.

And I was replying to Brapís comment of us being the worst team in the league.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 01, 2017, 06:00:12 AM

And I was replying to Brapís comment of us being the worst team in the league.

I know, but we don't have to be the worst team to go down.

You've just said on 1 hand that we're not going down, but you can only name Bournemouth and Palace as worse teams....if that's true, then we go down.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: The Analog Kid on November 01, 2017, 06:03:00 AM
I know, but we don't have to be the worst team to go down.

You've just said on 1 hand that we're not going down, but you can only name Bournemouth and Palace as worse teams....if that's true, then we go down.

At the moment. When thereís the likes of Swansea, West Ham, West Brom, Stoke in the mix Iíd say weíll come out of it ok.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 01, 2017, 06:25:46 AM
Palace and Bournemouth. Theyíre below us for a reason

I honestly think we're worse and in a worse position squad wise. My worry is as well is that in retrospect this won't be a shot out of the blue - this will be well they struggled with an aging side under Martinez, bobbled around mid table for a bit and then finally dropped to the bottom three. There are signs there and they aren't good. We look empty.

I think the next 5 league fixtures are season defining.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: The Analog Kid on November 01, 2017, 06:35:03 AM
I honestly think we're worse and in a worse position squad wise. My worry is as well is that in retrospect this won't be a shot out of the blue - this will be well they struggled with an aging side under Martinez, bobbled around mid table for a bit and then finally dropped to the bottom three. There are signs there and they aren't good. We look empty.

I think the next 5 league fixtures are season defining.



Watford (h)
Palace (a)
Southampton (a)
West Ham (h)
Huddersfiield (h)

Three outta those five are in and around us.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueski on November 01, 2017, 06:35:59 AM
I honestly think we're worse and in a worse position squad wise. My worry is as well is that in retrospect this won't be a shot out of the blue - this will be well they struggled with an aging side under Martinez, bobbled around mid table for a bit and then finally dropped to the bottom three. There are signs there and they aren't good. We look empty.

I think the next 5 league fixtures are season defining.


agree we've been pretty dire and all that but people always say the next game is a must win or this next stretch defines our season etc

I do think we do need to find some sort of result to give a bit of confidence

part of that is going to involve us creating a goal or two in a game
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 01, 2017, 06:42:25 AM
We've been on a race to the bottom from way before the end of last season. Kxoeman could not have done a worse job, let's hope the Everton spirit returns in the next games, would love to see Unsworth be the hero.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 01, 2017, 07:03:43 AM
I don't deny we are in trouble, we just need one of any number of proper professionals to set things right AND be a proper leader with actual vision for the future. Overreacting is as bad as underreacting.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 12:23:36 PM
I don't deny we are in trouble, we just need one of any number of proper professionals to set things right AND be a proper leader with actual vision for the future. Overreacting is as bad as underreacting.

Think you're in denial. We've been the worst side in the entire league. We don't "just need" anything. If we don't change something quickly this could spiral. We deserve to have about 2 points. So far it's only luck that has stopped us being in complete crisis.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 01, 2017, 12:54:45 PM
I fail that believe that the loss of solely Lukaku, as important as he was, means that we go from 15 points clear of 8th to the worst side in the league.

Itís stretching things pessimistically quite some way considering that we have actually signed players, half of them proven in the PL to improve the other areas of the pitch.

So based on that it must be taken into account that we are at the lowest possible ebb of our form and therefore, yes we do look awful.

But the other teams down there are like that every year. Theyíre not going to get any better across the season.

Some, if not all, like Burnley, that are doing well will get worse as the season goes on.

Weíve sacked a manager because he couldnít get his points across to a group of players that should be doing better.

Anyone thinking that weíre the worst team in the league must surely not agree with sacking Koeman unless itís based purely on a relative level of influence over not signing a striker?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 01, 2017, 02:07:27 PM
Weíre playing some pretty poor teams in the coming weeks so weíll soon have a better idea of where we are.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Rhys on November 01, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Think you're in denial. We've been the worst side in the entire league. We don't "just need" anything. If we don't change something quickly this could spiral. We deserve to have about 2 points. So far it's only luck that has stopped us being in complete crisis.

It isnt luck to have a very good keeper that made crucial saves to help us win against Stoke and Bournemouth. Yes we werent great in either game but thats one of the reasons why we paid 30m for a really good keeper prospect to make big saves in big moments of games to help us win matches.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Macca77 on November 01, 2017, 03:03:52 PM
Next five prem fixtures

Watford
Palace
Southampton
West Ham
Huddersfield

3 wins from them i reckon
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 01, 2017, 03:32:27 PM
I fail that believe that the loss of solely Lukaku, as important as he was, means that we go from 15 points clear of 8th to the worst side in the league.

Itís stretching things pessimistically quite some way considering that we have actually signed players, half of them proven in the PL to improve the other areas of the pitch.

So based on that it must be taken into account that we are at the lowest possible ebb of our form and therefore, yes we do look awful.

But the other teams down there are like that every year. Theyíre not going to get any better across the season.

Some, if not all, like Burnley, that are doing well will get worse as the season goes on.

Weíve sacked a manager because he couldnít get his points across to a group of players that should be doing better.

Anyone thinking that weíre the worst team in the league must surely not agree with sacking Koeman unless itís based purely on a relative level of influence over not signing a striker?

I think losing Lukaku was massive, yes. I also think not replacing him was massive - two force multipliers in making us shite IMO and different things. We didnít not replace only his Goals, but his threat, his strength, his pace on the break to stretch teams, his defending from corners which was oddly good. He did more for us than score and brought more than Goals to the side.

Weíve also lost Bolassie, Coleman and Barkley to injury with no clear idea of when theyíll be back or to what level - another £90m at least of talent not currently able to be utilised. Youth, athletic ability and creativity as well as passing from the midfield.

We then sold Gareth Barry, Iím sure youíre a fan and I donít need to tell you what he brought.

And finally key players are another year older, and new players are not hitting the beats we need them to.

We are the worst side in the league bar maybe palace, and they look ready to turn it round.

Being completely honest - I thought sacking Koeman would do one thing which was alleviate pressure on the fans and on the players from the fans. It was time for a change and thats fine but itís startling how bad we still look.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 01, 2017, 03:36:20 PM
It isnt luck to have a very good keeper that made crucial saves to help us win against Stoke and Bournemouth. Yes we werent great in either game but thats one of the reasons why we paid 30m for a really good keeper prospect to make big saves in big moments of games to help us win matches.

That's probably a fair point. Worst outfield team in the league and 3rd bottom thanks to keeping brilliance? Still requires a massive job to fix it
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 01, 2017, 03:43:32 PM
I think losing Lukaku was massive, yes. I also think not replacing him was massive - two force multipliers in making us shite IMO and different things. We didnít not replace only his Goals, but his threat, his strength, his pace on the break to stretch teams, his defending from corners which was oddly good. He did more for us than score and brought more than Goals to the side.

Weíve also lost Bolassie, Coleman and Barkley to injury with no clear idea of when theyíll be back or to what level - another £90m at least of talent not currently able to be utilised. Youth, athletic ability and creativity as well as passing from the midfield.

We then sold Gareth Barry, Iím sure youíre a fan and I donít need to tell you what he brought.

And finally key players are another year older, and new players are not hitting the beats we need them to.

We are the worst side in the league bar maybe palace, and they look ready to turn it round.

Being completely honest - I thought sacking Koeman would do one thing which was alleviate pressure on the fans and on the players from the fans. It was time for a change and thats fine but itís startling how bad we still look.



Barkley will be back or weíve signed players to replace him, particularly Sigurdsson who hasnít been good or being used now.

Bolasie missed all of our strong second half of the season so shouldnít be a factor in the decline.

Coleman yes, obviously is a miss, but again he missed a good chunk of the second half.

And no one liked Lukaku more than me so I appreciate what he brought.

But that shouldnít rule out being generally competent at everything else.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 01, 2017, 03:54:37 PM
Barkley will be back or weíve signed players to replace him, particularly Sigurdsson who hasnít been good or being used now.

Bolasie missed all of our strong second half of the season so shouldnít be a factor in the decline.

Coleman yes, obviously is a miss, but again he missed a good chunk of the second half.

And no one liked Lukaku more than me so I appreciate what he brought.

But that shouldnít rule out being generally competent at everything else.

Not sure, appreciate the thought you give as a poster so this is giving me pause I admit but when I look it Iím only seeing trouble.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2017, 03:56:02 PM
The midfield is for me where we've dropped off a cliff. Granted we've lost a goal threat but we had a pretty solid team last season, bar some poor individual results which skewed the stats a little. This season we offer nothing in the middle of the park, no protection for the back four, no support to the strikers, no attempt at being progressive with the ball, no energy.

We could get away with not having much threat up top as long as we were a solid team and you're always in with a chance of sneaking a goal via a set piece or a bit of good play. However teams are walking through us at will, getting to the back four with ease and the gap between DCL and the rest is too big.

Barry going was a huge mistake, which says a lot when you consider his age and ability to play consecutive games but it's true. This whole season has been a succession of poor decisions.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: dazfrancis on November 01, 2017, 04:20:01 PM
The midfield is for me where we've dropped off a cliff. Granted we've lost a goal threat but we had a pretty solid team last season, bar some poor individual results which skewed the stats a little. This season we offer nothing in the middle of the park, no protection for the back four, no support to the strikers, no attempt at being progressive with the ball, no energy.

We could get away with not having much threat up top as long as we were a solid team and you're always in with a chance of sneaking a goal via a set piece or a bit of good play. However teams are walking through us at will, getting to the back four with ease and the gap between DCL and the rest is too big.

Barry going was a huge mistake, which says a lot when you consider his age and ability to play consecutive games but it's true. This whole season has been a succession of poor decisions.

Gana and in particular Schneiderlin were bossing it 2nd half of last season. Schneiderlin's performances in particular have fallen  off a cliff but I don't think Barry would be the silver bullet he is currently being made out to be. He probably would have suffered from the awful system the previous manager was trying to employ. It's a weird situation because if you look at all the midfielders on our books we should be pretty solid.


Unsworth has hell of a task to rebuild the shape of the team and the confidence of the players but he does have some decent players to use, if used correctly. IMO he should be focusing on making that midfield a solid as possible and building on that.


Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 01, 2017, 04:25:10 PM
Gana and in particular Schneiderlin were bossing it 2nd half of last season. Schneiderlin's performances in particular have fallen  off a cliff but I don't think Barry would be the silver bullet he is currently being made out to be. He probably would have suffered from the awful system the previous manager was trying to employ. It's a weird situation because if you look at all the midfielders on our books we should be pretty solid.


Unsworth has hell of a task to rebuild the shape of the team and the confidence of the players but he does have some decent players to use, if used correctly. IMO he should be focusing on making that midfield a solid as possible and building on that.




One of the few things giving me confidence is that I rate MS and Gana both. Maybe both are misused at the moment but I think they can both be great in the right system.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Toddacelli on November 01, 2017, 04:43:28 PM
The year Joe Royale saved us he took over in the 14th game and we were not safe until the penultimate game of the season. We need to address our current situation very soon.


Wid cheese?


(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7buhm1O1bOJV4ZWM/source.gif)
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Paddockoldie on November 01, 2017, 04:48:57 PM
Perspective? Evertonians???? Computer doesn't understand.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 01, 2017, 04:55:46 PM
Can’t believe some aren’t worried - can it see us winning a game anytime soon? Can you see us winning ten?

Haven’t won an away since January and we weren’t even that shit then. How many home games do we have left? What’s our record for home wins in a row?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Django on November 01, 2017, 05:38:56 PM
Can't agree more with that statement there Si.

It does however worry me how woefully off form the midfield are and how old the back 4 are with nothing we can do about it till Jan.

Everything looks better with a couple of wins though and we have to have faith in Unsworth that he'll get us winning.

No team goes through a run of form like this for 38 games, especially not with the quality we possess.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: TheRam on November 01, 2017, 05:49:16 PM
We've been playing like this since the end of last season.

This isn't a poor run of form. It's a team failing in every department of the pitch for a regular period of time.

Yeah we may well hit some results but this team isn't finishing above 14th and for a club that's spent 200mil in the last 18 months that's as bad as it gets.

All well and good assuming because we're Everton we'll hit a run of results sooner or later and get ourselves out of trouble, but when you actually take in what's happening on the pitch it's hard not to be very concerned.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 01, 2017, 05:53:52 PM
I think it is pretty arrogant to think we will get out of this just cos we are 'Everton' - we are fucking shit and its no wonder people are panicking
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2017, 05:55:20 PM
Can't agree more with that statement there Si.

It does however worry me how woefully off form the midfield are and how old the back 4 are with nothing we can do about it till Jan.

Everything looks better with a couple of wins though and we have to have faith in Unsworth that he'll get us winning.

No team goes through a run of form like this for 38 games, especially not with the quality we possess.

Whilst I agree it's not as bad as many fear do we really possess lots of quality? Half of our squad are youngsters learning their trade and the rest are made up of a mix of players past their best and others woefully out of form with rock bottom confidence.
It's very easy to say let's just put some back to wins together and we'll roll from there but one of them wins isn't going to be away, judging by the fact we're nearly a year since we've done just that, and at home we can't beat the likes of Burnley or even a bunch of Cypriot journeymen.

If we had some stand out performances this season to refer to as evidence we can click when things go our way I'd be more optimistic. I suppose a lot rests on this weekend, a win and things look different, a draw or loss and who knows where we go from here.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: TheTone on November 01, 2017, 05:57:26 PM
We've gone from being best of the rest to being just one of the rest
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Fynci on November 01, 2017, 06:07:35 PM
We've gone from being best of the rest to being just one of the rest

I'd be comfortable if we were just one of the rest right now, what's worrying me is that we look worse than the rest.

I can't see any goals at all in the current team, and we're leaking them. If we don't get people in January who can create chances AND someone who can put them away then we're in big trouble.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 01, 2017, 06:13:58 PM
I think the right manager, getting a few players in the weak areas, and trimming some of the other pointless players and this squad could be moulded into quite a good one pretty quickly. That would require a coherent plan though, and a competent manager. Let's see if we get that part right, first.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 01, 2017, 06:16:14 PM
One of the few things giving me confidence is that I rate MS and Gana both. Maybe both are misused at the moment but I think they can both be great in the right system.
Not everything is because of tactics and formation - they are internationals and have been making consistent errors all season.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Gary1878 on November 01, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
Performances have been bad but when you look at the results, how many league results have been unexpected? Not counting the number of goals shipped, this puts into perspective where we should be in the table given the run of fixtures we have had. These are based on just my opinion going into the season what we should be expecting and nothing else. They are all estimates and I am sure you will all have differing thoughts.

Stoke (H) - W 1-0 - Expected
Man City (A) - D 1-1 - Unexpected - Plus 1 Point (expected loss)
Chelsea (A) - L - 0-2 - Expected
Spurs (H) - L 0-3 - Unexpected - Minus 1 Point (expected draw)
Man Utd (A) - L 0-4 - Expected
Bournemouth (H) - W 2-1 - Expected
Burnley (H) - L -0-1 - Unexpected - Minus 3 Points (expected win)
Brighton (A) - D 1-1 - Unexpected - Minus 2 Points (expected win)
Arsenal (H) - L 2-5 - Unexpected - Minus 1 Point (expected draw)
Leicester (A) - L 0-2 - Unexpected - Minus 1 Point (expected draw)

So, given the above, we should probably be 7 points better off, and these points should have come in the last 4 games. This would put us 8th/9th depending on goal diff, which would have been a satisfactory start.










Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
Not everything is because of tactics and formation - they are internationals and have been making consistent errors all season.

True. If Schneiderlin didn't cost £24m he wouldn't get near the first team at the minute. He has shown no energy, no fight, no inclination to do anything other than the bare minimum, which he has done poorly. Shame as he can look like a rolls royce of a player when things are going well, but he looks a bit mentally weak to me, not the type you want when you're up against it.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2017, 06:21:24 PM
Performances have been bad but when you look at the results, how many league results have been unexpected? Not counting the number of goals shipped, this puts into perspective where we should be in the table given the run of fixtures we have had. These are based on just my opinion going into the season what we should be expecting and nothing else. They are all estimates and I am sure you will all have differing thoughts.

Stoke (H) - W 1-0 - Expected
Man City (A) - D 1-1 - Unexpected - Plus 1 Point (expected loss)
Chelsea (A) - L - 0-2 - Expected
Spurs (H) - L 0-3 - Unexpected - Minus 1 Point (expected draw)
Man Utd (A) - L 0-4 - Expected
Bournemouth (H) - W 2-1 - Expected
Burnley (H) - L -0-1 - Unexpected - Minus 3 Points (expected win)
Brighton (A) - D 1-1 - Unexpected - Minus 2 Points (expected win)
Arsenal (H) - L 2-5 - Unexpected - Minus 1 Point (expected draw)
Leicester (A) - L 0-2 - Unexpected - Minus 1 Point (expected draw)

So, given the above, we should probably be 7 points better off, and these points should have come in the last 4 games. This would put us 8th/9th depending on goal diff, which would have been a satisfactory start.












All immaterial, let's stick to reality not alternate universes.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 01, 2017, 06:25:11 PM
All immaterial, let's stick to reality not alternate universes.
We can't stick to reality ...to some it's woe is me and of days we are relagated already ....to others it's a shit start but we will improve and finish mid table somewhere....the reality doesn't get a look in .
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Django on November 01, 2017, 06:45:27 PM
Whilst I agree it's not as bad as many fear do we really possess lots of quality? Half of our squad are youngsters learning their trade and the rest are made up of a mix of players past their best and others woefully out of form with rock bottom confidence.
It's very easy to say let's just put some back to wins together and we'll roll from there but one of them wins isn't going to be away, judging by the fact we're nearly a year since we've done just that, and at home we can't beat the likes of Burnley or even a bunch of Cypriot journeymen.

If we had some stand out performances this season to refer to as evidence we can click when things go our way I'd be more optimistic. I suppose a lot rests on this weekend, a win and things look different, a draw or loss and who knows where we go from here.

It's easy to write on a forum that we'll get a few wins, I agree with you there.

I do worry that the league has passed us by a bit in recent years - teams aren't scared of anyone anymore and most teams have invested in their sides, which is why us signing a load of players isn't getting us ahead of anyone.

We do have a number of players over the hill, without doubt. They need replacing desperately, but these aren't the issue currently.

My issue lies with Schniederlin and Gueye the most - seasoned pros supposedly in their prime who are doing absolutely shite all week in week out.

I do think we need to edge a win out of somewhere and suddenly confidence improves and results follow.

It's been a horrendous start, the worst imaginable really. But it's only been 10 games.

We can't jump the gun and get an Allardyce in - it paints us as a clueless and small time club. We need to have faith in Unsworth.

Could be worse though - imagine Niasse hadn't scored them goals against Bournemouth :(
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Gary1878 on November 01, 2017, 07:01:54 PM
All immaterial, let's stick to reality not alternate universes.

Unfortunately that is our reality. It is what we have achieved versus expected results.

I am sure absolutely no one is unclear on the reality, which is that we have massively under performed in terms of points won and how we are playing.

I am confident that we won't continue on this path for much longer
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2017, 07:19:34 PM
It's easy to write on a forum that we'll get a few wins, I agree with you there.

I do worry that the league has passed us by a bit in recent years - teams aren't scared of anyone anymore and most teams have invested in their sides, which is why us signing a load of players isn't getting us ahead of anyone.

We do have a number of players over the hill, without doubt. They need replacing desperately, but these aren't the issue currently.

My issue lies with Schniederlin and Gueye the most - seasoned pros supposedly in their prime who are doing absolutely shite all week in week out.

I do think we need to edge a win out of somewhere and suddenly confidence improves and results follow.

It's been a horrendous start, the worst imaginable really. But it's only been 10 games.

We can't jump the gun and get an Allardyce in - it paints us as a clueless and small time club. We need to have faith in Unsworth.

Could be worse though - imagine Niasse hadn't scored them goals against Bournemouth :(

Or a last minute penalty against Brighton.

It's also 17 games not just 10. In those 17 games we've wrote off the league, bombed our best chance of a trophy and virtually out of Europe, the competition which was supposed to herald the new dawn to Everton, international exposure to our new project.

I agree about Schneiderlin and Gueye, quite why we needed to give him a new contract at this time I don't know. I remember the days when you had to be pulling up trees to get a payrise now you just have to be able bodied, as evidenced with Mirallas too.

Still, three points at weekend and everyone will be talking about 7th again.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: wepull on November 02, 2017, 01:15:27 AM
Nah, we are still a good side.

I think our defenders played quite well against Chelsea and Leicester and couldn't be faulted for the goals. I think one of the biggest issue is with the drop in form of big Morg; he was the key to our success in the second half and it's affecting us big time this season.

If I was the manager then I would shore up the defence first. Get their confidence back and then probably try to nick a goal. Once we know that we are solid at the back, we can experiment a bit and get the attacking line settled. This season we haven't had a settled attacking line up which has also hurt our game play, we end up doing 3-4 changes every game which isn't good for the team.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 01:30:12 AM
Nah, we are still a good side.

I think our defenders played quite well against Chelsea and Leicester and couldn't be faulted for the goals. I think one of the biggest issue is with the drop in form of big Morg; he was the key to our success in the second half and it's affecting us big time this season.

If I was the manager then I would shore up the defence first. Get their confidence back and then probably try to nick a goal. Once we know that we are solid at the back, we can experiment a bit and get the attacking line settled. This season we haven't had a settled attacking line up which has also hurt our game play, we end up doing 3-4 changes every game which isn't good for the team.

Sorry but we really aren't a good side. We've played 9 league games and maybe been dominant in 1 half against Stoke..... we are a dreadful side. We've got some reasonably good players. Unfortunately we might be comfortably the worst at full back (until Coleman comes back) and are beyond dreadful upfront. People need to get real now. We've got the makings of a good side but in terms of an 11 we can currently put on a pitch we simply aren't fit for purpose. Our forwards are so poor it's getting to the point where it almost doesn't matter what else we can field.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 02, 2017, 03:23:11 AM
Simple question...where are we strong?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 02, 2017, 03:30:37 AM
Simple question...where are we strong?

Midfield
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 02, 2017, 03:34:32 AM
Midfield

Well I'd feel better with Barkley back for sure.

On the wings though? It says everything about this squad that we're still playing Mirallas who pretty useless form aside has wanted himself to leave for a couple of seasons.

I like Lookman and Vlasic, but I'm not sure I'd call them strong options as yet until they've put in regular performances.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Confucius on November 02, 2017, 03:50:27 AM
i come onto this site for doom and gloom and pessismism.

What is this perspective bull shit?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Brownie20 on November 02, 2017, 04:03:35 AM
i come onto this site for doom and gloom and pessismism.

What is this perspective bull shit?


Per Spectiv - our new Eastern European manager
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on November 02, 2017, 04:24:43 AM
I'd draw parallels to Aston Villa, the season after they sold Benteke they got relegated.
Anyone who doesn't think we are not in real danger of going down need to think again. The body language of some of our players is certainly questionable and you'd have to wonder if some of these players have got the stomach and fight for a relegation battle.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 04:37:06 AM
I'd draw parallels to Aston Villa, the season after they sold Benteke they got relegated.
Anyone who doesn't think we are not in real danger of going down need to think again. The body language of some of our players is certainly questionable and you'd have to wonder if some of these players have got the stomach and fight for a relegation battle.

Think people are delusional if they think we aren't in trouble. We've barely produced a competitive 45 minutes this season. We need results soon otherwise this will spiral
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Brownie20 on November 02, 2017, 04:54:45 AM
Not saying we are not in trouble but Villa comparisons are slightly off. They were on the downward spiral for a good few years before they went down. We can fix this.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 02, 2017, 04:57:03 AM
Simple question...where are we strong?

I still think we are strong in goal.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: bluenuck on November 02, 2017, 05:26:01 AM
Not saying we are not in trouble but Villa comparisons are slightly off. They were on the downward spiral for a good few years before they went down. We can fix this.

Um, we've been on one for a few years. If it wasn't for Lukaku last season we would probably be right on their course.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Brownie20 on November 02, 2017, 05:34:35 AM
Um, we've been on one for a few years. If it wasn't for Lukaku last season we would probably be right on their course.

No we haven't though have we? Villa looked like relegation was a guarantee for about four seasons. Even in Martinez' last two seasons we didn't look like getting relegated. The Lukaku thing? Maybe, maybe not. The old "we still would've finished 7th without his goals" stat springs to mind.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Jamokachi on November 02, 2017, 05:50:52 AM
Some of you need to log off the internet for a while. Christ.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: bluenuck on November 02, 2017, 05:51:15 AM
No we haven't though have we? Villa looked like relegation was a guarantee for about four seasons. Even in Martinez' last two seasons we didn't look like getting relegated. The Lukaku thing? Maybe, maybe not. The old "we still would've finished 7th without his goals" stat springs to mind.

Fair enough.

But 3 out of the last 4 seasons have been backward. It's suppose to be the other way round. We really have to be careful here.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Brownie20 on November 02, 2017, 06:28:52 AM
Fair enough.

But 3 out of the last 4 seasons have been backward. It's suppose to be the other way round. We really have to be careful here.


I agree but we shouldn't be like Virgins at prom night just yet.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: montanatoffeefan on November 02, 2017, 04:16:24 PM
Just seen a tweet @ nsno that "we are in a relegation battle and it's not even mid season"

Fixed it.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: formerKHL on November 02, 2017, 05:14:52 PM
Next five prem fixtures

Watford
Palace
Southampton
West Ham
Huddersfield

3 wins from them i reckon

Putting things in perspective.......this should be 5 wins from 5 expectancy.....not 3 from 5...
shows where we're at, at this moment in time for me...
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Major Clanger on November 02, 2017, 05:18:51 PM
Fixed it.

Surely that doesn't actually mean anything. You might as well say: "the season hasn't even started and we're tied for last place".
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 02, 2017, 05:30:26 PM
Putting things in perspective.......this should be 5 wins from 5 expectancy.....not 3 from 5...
shows where we're at, at this moment in time for me...
Iíll eat my own shit if we win 3 of those games
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: formerKHL on November 02, 2017, 05:42:22 PM
Iíll eat my own shit if we win 3 of those games

waiting to see who asks for the video...
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bally on November 02, 2017, 06:37:41 PM
I'll eat my own shit if we win 3 of those games
I want the video
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bally on November 02, 2017, 06:37:50 PM
waiting to see who asks for the video...
Hi
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Stumpy on November 02, 2017, 07:07:43 PM
True. If Schneiderlin didn't cost £24m he wouldn't get near the first team at the minute. He has shown no energy, no fight, no inclination to do anything other than the bare minimum, which he has done poorly. Shame as he can look like a rolls royce of a player when things are going well, but he looks a bit mentally weak to me, not the type you want when you're up against it.
And at fault for the goals conceded against Burnley and Brighton with schoolboy errors.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: School of Science on November 02, 2017, 07:08:32 PM
Think whats pissed a lot of people off really is, this was the season we were supposed to push on, challenge for CL or at least top six. To say we have gone backwards is an understatement. Relegation battle ? The way things are going it could be, we are a team with very fragile confidence, find it hard to create chances, let alone score goals, our defending is abysmal at times and we are not being let down by the kids, it's the experienced players who are letting us down. Our football has on the whole been appalling and sorry if that upset a few people but it's the way I see it and I hope to God it improves. Oh and I'm not impressed with Dyche or Allerdyce I'd rather have Moyes for a season.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Stumpy on November 02, 2017, 08:36:15 PM
Anyone that thinks we are not in serious trouble is either kidding themselves or are deluded.We are inept all over the field.A non existent attack,a badly out of form midfield and a dodgey back 4.No pace,no drive and confidence shot to pieces.As others have stated it's not just the defeats,it's the manner of how we are getting beat.At the moment it's hard to see where the next goal is coming from,i can honestly say I would not back us to beat anybody right now.I know things can change in an instance(cahills last gasp winner at sunderland 2005 etc) but at this time it's so hard to picture it.The biggest worry for me is we don't have a striker at the club worthy of a start.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 02, 2017, 08:38:55 PM
Don’t think a single team in the side would swap our striker for theirs.

Why on earth can’t Wayne Rooney play upfront?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Stumpy on November 02, 2017, 08:55:28 PM
Donít think a single team in the side would swap our striker for theirs.

Why on earth canít Wayne Rooney play upfront?
To be honest brap for me it's the only solution to sort this mess out.It's a million miles from ideal,but at least he has a bit of nous about him,the others are simply not up to the job.Leave him up front,stop him chasing back looking for the ball and hope we can nick a few 1-0s until this shambles can be addressed in January.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 02, 2017, 08:59:14 PM
Iíll eat my own shit if we win 3 of those games

this turned into a German scheisse porn site so gradually, I barely even noticed
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Waltzer on November 02, 2017, 09:03:01 PM
To be honest brap for me it's the only solution to sort this mess out.It's a million miles from ideal,but at least he has a bit of nous about him,the others are simply not up to the job.Leave him up front,stop him chasing back looking for the ball and hope we can nick a few 1-0s until this shambles can be addressed in January.

How bad is David Henen? We've had others called up but hes got 6 in 4 games for the U23s, surely hes got to be worth a crack given the position were in?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 02, 2017, 09:08:28 PM
perspective is from the viewpoint of the person viewing.. perspective can be tainted through how it is perceived...


plus if your already negative about Koeman/Everton/this season. Then Unsworth will follow the same and fail.. you have to separate Unsworth from what has occurred earlier in the season..

People going crazy cos he;s had 2 games.. lol
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 02, 2017, 09:10:22 PM
To be honest brap for me it's the only solution to sort this mess out.It's a million miles from ideal,but at least he has a bit of nous about him,the others are simply not up to the job.Leave him up front,stop him chasing back looking for the ball and hope we can nick a few 1-0s until this shambles can be addressed in January.

There lies the problem. Never in his career has he had the discipline to stay in one position so he's not going to start now.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Waltzer on November 02, 2017, 09:19:35 PM
Cant we go to FIFA or the FA and ask for special dispensation to sign a striker on loan, you're allowed to do it when you dont have a goalkeeper. Surely it wouldnt be too hard to evidence that we dont have any strikers in our squad!!!
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 09:23:53 PM
Cant we go to FIFA or the FA and ask for special dispensation to sign a striker on loan, you're allowed to do it when you dont have a goalkeeper. Surely it wouldnt be too hard to evidence that we dont have any strikers in our squad!!!

I think they'd argue you don't actually need a striker. I guess we could make them watch our games. They'd probably have to concede we do then
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Waltzer on November 02, 2017, 09:26:00 PM
I think they'd argue you don't actually need a striker. I guess we could make them watch our games. They'd probably have to concede we do then

Exactly, nothing ventured, nothing gained!! :)
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Stumpy on November 02, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
There lies the problem. Never in his career has he had the discipline to stay in one position so he's not going to start now.
Hard to argue with that.Just wishful thinking I suppose.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: boothill on November 02, 2017, 09:49:29 PM
Ive seen worse performances than sundays, even during a run of wins, 2nd half wasnt that bad. I just think we are all down and fed up at the mo and looking for a scrap. I think we had 16 attempts at goal, ok 15 probably went wide, but didnt we create more in that game than we have all season in the league put together ? We score 2 against arsenal but concede 5 i know, it needs a good tweaking, but it is there. Stay positive lads n lasses, it will get there. COYB
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 09:50:22 PM
Exactly, nothing ventured, nothing gained!! :)

Unfortunately there's no chance really. It's not a specialist position like a keeper, we actually have strikers all be it they are shit and our problems haven't been caused by an injury crisis but by our own choices
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 09:54:25 PM
Ive seen worse performances than sundays, even during a run of wins, 2nd half wasnt that bad. I just think we are all down and fed up at the mo and looking for a scrap. I think we had 16 attempts at goal, ok 15 probably went wide, but didnt we create more in that game than we have all season in the league put together ? We score 2 against arsenal but concede 5 i know, it needs a good tweaking, but it is there. Stay positive lads n lasses, it will get there. COYB

I've seen worse performances but it was still pretty dreadful first half against Leicester and while in some ways we were the better team in the 2nd it was only them that made real chances

The problem isn't any individual game though. The problem is we've been shite almost every half of almost every game for about 15 games now. That's not form. That's just being shite
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Waltzer on November 02, 2017, 10:02:48 PM
Unfortunately there's no chance really. It's not a specialist position like a keeper, we actually have strikers all be it they are shit and our problems haven't been caused by an injury crisis but by our own choices

I know I was only joking. And its crazy isnt it but you're right, someone actually made the decision at the club that potential signings were too expensive and we were okay to go with what we have!!!
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: boothill on November 02, 2017, 10:06:41 PM
I've seen worse performances but it was still pretty dreadful first half against Leicester and while in some ways we were the better team in the 2nd it was only them that made real chances

The problem isn't any individual game though. The problem is we've been shite almost every half of almost every game for about 15 games now. That's not form. That's just being shite
That 1st half could, with the tinyist bit of luck been 1 1, that og could have gone over or wide, if he hadnt touched it, it was going in the arms of pickford, it was a nailed on pen we were denied. Its seems true, that when you are down there lady luck turns her head away. Maybe im wrong, but i cant remember pickford having a save to make other than their 1st, which was a great goal, that was like the goals we scored with trevor steven marauding down the right. And a flukey deflection, and had no chance of either. But you are right on shite performance though
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: formerKHL on November 02, 2017, 10:12:53 PM
Cant we go to FIFA or the FA and ask for special dispensation to sign a striker on loan, you're allowed to do it when you dont have a goalkeeper. Surely it wouldnt be too hard to evidence that we dont have any strikers in our squad!!!

we'd have to say we're Liverpool Fc......
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 10:38:50 PM
I know I was only joking. And its crazy isnt it but you're right, someone actually made the decision at the club that potential signings were too expensive and we were okay to go with what we have!!!

Lunatics. Pretty much every striker that moved to a premier league club is better than what we have. Wood, Abraham, chicoritto. If we could start the window again now we'd happily take any of them and be a vastly improved team/ honestly no clue what they were fucking thinking. There wasn't a single 1 of us who even contemplated not signing a forward. It was that outlandish it couldn't possibly happen

All that fucking money over 3 windows and we have a squad now that's not fit for purpose. A team off here would have done better.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 02, 2017, 10:43:48 PM
That 1st half could, with the tinyist bit of luck been 1 1, that og could have gone over or wide, if he hadnt touched it, it was going in the arms of pickford, it was a nailed on pen we were denied. Its seems true, that when you are down there lady luck turns her head away. Maybe im wrong, but i cant remember pickford having a save to make other than their 1st, which was a great goal, that was like the goals we scored with trevor steven marauding down the right. And a flukey deflection, and had no chance of either. But you are right on shite performance though

Was only half watching (it's all I can manage these days) but I'm pretty sure they missed a couple of sitters 2nd half. I agree we could have been level with a bit of luck here and there but the reality is over the season so far our performances have actually been worse than our dreadful results. Even in our best halves (there's only been a couple) we have lots of possession and create nothing. We barely control any periods and create even less chances

We've got 5 relatively easy games in the league now. I wouldn't be surprised if we got 9 or 10 points but I wouldn't be surprised if we got 1 or 2 and were adrift. Frighteningly I think the first situation is based on our delusional that we are just gonna click soon
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Everton Mint on November 02, 2017, 10:49:15 PM
Poor early season performances, granted. But we have played many of the Top 6 amongst those games.

And despite everything we are still within a win of mid-table.

There have been teams that looked absolutely down in March that have stayed up.

Absolutely no need to panic, either as fans, or as a club in getting a new manager.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Heisenberg on November 03, 2017, 01:41:45 AM
I think the real issue with everton is illustrated with the team selection tonight and moshiris recent comments. Before matches we are grouping games into 'ones we will lose' and 'ones we could win'. Its a club of losers top to bottom. The only person who has actually GOT us in the past 2 decades has been Martinez, which is pretty sad really. There is no way we will grow as a club making an appoinment like dyche or allarydyce. We need a winner ffs
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 03, 2017, 02:06:17 AM
Couldn't be arsed watching. Perspective enough for this Evertonian.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 02:06:51 AM
Here's a bit of perspective

We put in one of our best performances of the season and still lost 3-0.

If you're not seeing the massive trouble we're in you're deluding yourself.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lazarou on November 03, 2017, 02:08:35 AM
Here's a bit of perspective

We put in one of our best performances of the season and still lost 3-0.

If you're not seeing the massive trouble we're in you're deluding yourself.

These kind of performances, or bad luck, call it what you will is relegation stuff.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 03, 2017, 02:12:25 AM
I'll be worried if we don't beat Watford. But I think we will.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Martip on November 03, 2017, 02:13:24 AM
We are terrible and will be lucky to stay up at this rate. The problem is that the majority of the team are not good enough simple as -

Shit List - Morgan, Williams, Martina, Baines - Jags - Rooney (all too old), DCL, Lennon, Kenny, Holgate, Niasse,

On top of this I have serious doubts about Keane,  Sandro, Lookman and really don't see why there is so much Pickford love floating around - he seems bang average to me and has done nowt either of the other 2 couldn't have done. He flapps too much,  doesnt catch the ball enough and isn't a great shot stopper but hey £30m doesn't get you much these days does it ?

Theres a lot of people moaning about the likes of Dyche and Allardyce being linked but being honest what top quality manager would want to waste 2 years trying to rebuilt this crock of shit. Things are worse than we could have imagined and we need a miracle to even stay up with these overpaid muppets.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Gash on November 03, 2017, 02:15:07 AM
I really don't see how people think a new manager (especially without knowing who it is) is going to suddenly turn this round? It's going to be touch go in the end, anyone coming in isn't going to see an immediate upturn in fortunes, especially with the defence we have at the moment.

The best we can hope is that he can get the quality players starting to believe in themselves again and start putting in the performances they're capable of but even at that we have several players that look past their best and no one there to replace them. Come January we're going have another window where we'll get our pants pulled down left, right and centre as everyone will know we're desperate.

It's all a bit of a mess at the moment.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 03, 2017, 02:15:36 AM
I'll be worried if we don't beat Watford. But I think we will.

Why??

How? Is probably more to the point.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: School of Science on November 03, 2017, 02:17:48 AM
Just can't believe the luck we are having, okay I take it we are not a good team but fuck me something has to start going for us surely. A perfect Schneiderlin tackle gives them their first goal not long after Gueye misses an easy chance, small margins. But hate the way our heads go every time someone scores against us.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Martip on November 03, 2017, 02:21:10 AM
Just can't believe the luck we are having, okay I take it we are not a good team but fuck me something has to start going for us surely. A perfect Schneiderlin tackle gives them their first goal not long after Gueye misses an easy chance, small margins. But hate the way our heads go every time someone scores against us.
Its funny how people see the game differently....for me Morgan was a headless chicken diving into tackles cause he was always the wrong side- an accident waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 02:23:11 AM
Why??

How? Is probably more to the point.

Because we will score more than them
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 03, 2017, 02:23:18 AM
Players + Manager neither one are right.

My word Barkley can't get back soon enough. At least we can push Rooney up then and maybe he can score a goal.

I'm so flipping tired of trying to shoehorn DCL in as our main striker. He just isn't ready. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, what are other people seeing as the benefits of repeatedly trying it, bar one half versus Man City?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 03, 2017, 02:23:22 AM
Why??

How? Is probably more to the point.

We're at home. The fans know it's massive so should be pumped for it. I've seen good stuff from the team in each off the last 3 games that I think if we can score the first goal will make a difference at home.

I don't mean luck but if a few little moments had gone our way on each of those games they would've been totally different - the Rooney close range volley at Chelsea, the penalty v Leicester, Gana tonight).

It's a game if such fine margins that those moments take on massive importance when you're desperate for a win in our position. Of course some of that is down to us and lack of composure in front of goal, but I do think it couldn've been different.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Faceatthefence on November 03, 2017, 02:23:27 AM
Whilst all the focus was on midfielders and poaching youth for the U-23,s we totally forgot about scoring and defending.From board to manager we royally fucked up and are now reaping the rewards,dont dream about expansive managers the club is no better then when moyes walked through the door 15 years ago.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Cozzie on November 03, 2017, 02:23:44 AM
We are going the way of Aston Villa, at least thats how I feel.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 03, 2017, 02:24:26 AM
Because we will score more than them

Ah, we're hoping they find a way to score a negative goal?

Everton 0 - Watford (-1).

Might be clutching at straws.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 03, 2017, 02:25:01 AM
We are going the way of Aston Villa, at least thats how I feel.

Get a grip
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 03, 2017, 02:27:50 AM
We're at home. The fans know it's massive so should be pumped for it. I've seen good stuff from the team in each off the last 3 games that I think if we can score the first goal will make a difference at home.

I don't mean luck but if a few little moments had gone our way on each of those games they would've been totally different - the Rooney close range volley at Chelsea, the penalty v Leicester, Gana tonight).

It's a game if such fine margins that those moments take on massive importance when you're desperate for a win in our position. Of course some of that is down to us and lack of composure in front of goal, but I do think it couldn've been different.

It's going to require about 10 dump trucks worth of good luck I think but who knows.

Crowd might be up for it, but we concede first and it's going to be instant poisonous atmosphere. You know that. That's the flipside of playing at home when you're on a bad run.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 02:29:01 AM
Ah, we're hoping they find a way to score a negative goal?

Everton 0 - Watford (-1).

Might be clutching at straws.

Like a scarecrow trying to have a wank
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 02:30:09 AM
Get a grip

Nah man, we are.

We are run appallingly on the football side of things.

It's time to realise the situation we're in. It's been coming for a few years now.

Only so long a club like Everton can sit in perpetual mediocrity for before it all comes crashing down and the reset button has to be pressed.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Cozzie on November 03, 2017, 02:30:14 AM
Get a grip

Just beyond worried now. Villas was a slow decline but you could see it coming a mile off. Poor recruitment and god awful management in the end.

Massive over reaction I will admit but it just all feels so grim.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 03, 2017, 02:30:16 AM
It's going to require about 10 dump trucks worth of good luck I think but who knows.

Crowd might be up for it, but we concede first and it's going to be instant poisonous atmosphere. You know that. That's the flipside of playing at home when you're on a bad run.

I think if the effort is there the crowd will get behind them because it's Unsworths first home game (this time around) and because there's young players in the team.

I don't think luck needs to come into it at all. We need to take our chances when they come.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: School of Science on November 03, 2017, 02:31:58 AM
Its funny how people see the game differently....for me Morgan was a headless chicken diving into tackles cause he was always the wrong side- an accident waiting to happen.

The tackle he was sent off for was disgraceful, stupid and unprofessional. Thought the tackle for their goal was good, he won the ball, but I thought it ran through very unfortunately to their striker to score an easy goal really. But fair enough to each their own views.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 03, 2017, 02:32:14 AM
Nah man, we are.

We are run appallingly on the football side of things.

It's time to realise the situation we're in. It's been coming for a few years now.

Only so long a club like Everton can sit in perpetual mediocrity for before it all comes crashing down and the reset button has to be pressed.

Not having it Rambo. There's issues at board level but I think there's a way out of this on the pitch without resorting to caveman managers. Think we'll be ok myself. We'll see.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 03, 2017, 02:34:00 AM
I think if the effort is there the crowd will get behind them because it's Unsworths first home game (this time around) and because there's young players in the team.

I don't think luck needs to come into it at all. We need to take our chances when they come.

I'm not here to squish yours or anyone else's optimism. However, I don't feel the same way. I don't see how on the back of the pre-season to where we are now you'd be confident of us doing much of anything right now.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bluedylan on November 03, 2017, 02:35:52 AM
I'm not here to squish yours or anyone else's optimism. However, I don't feel the same way. I don't see how on the back of the pre-season to where we are now you'd be confident of us doing much of anything right now.

No worries. We can respectfully disagree and both hope for a positive result at the weekend 👍
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: bluenuck on November 03, 2017, 02:45:44 AM
I'm at a tipping point now. Win against Watford and I'll continue to have hope.

If we get dismantled and either lose or draw then I'll be logging off for a while... Well I'll probably do one good rant before that.   :)
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 02:51:53 AM
Here's a bit of perspective

We put in one of our best performances of the season and still lost 3-0.

If you're not seeing the massive trouble we're in you're deluding yourself.
Si thinks youíre a bad meff and an embarrassment for panicking.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 02:52:57 AM
Si thinks youíre a bad meff and an embarrassment for panicking.

He thinks that regardless of my views on Everton :(
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 02:54:54 AM
Lose agaisnt Watford on Sunday and then it's full on panic stations

I'm panicking now like but a win could breed a bit of confidence

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 02:55:53 AM
Players + Manager neither one are right.

My word Barkley can't get back soon enough. At least we can push Rooney up then and maybe he can score a goal.

I'm so flipping tired of trying to shoehorn DCL in as our main striker. He just isn't ready. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, what are other people seeing as the benefits of repeatedly trying it, bar one half versus Man City?
Because we donít have better options
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 02:57:12 AM
https://twitter.com/TheSportsman/status/926190384677572608
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Bally on November 03, 2017, 02:58:16 AM
https://twitter.com/TheSportsman/status/926190384677572608
I love the first comment on that hahaha
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 03, 2017, 03:03:08 AM
Because we donít have better options

Even tonight with Sigurdsson we looked somewhat more able to retain the ball and were getting the wingers involved. It was a (mild) improvement for the time it lasted.

You replace DCL with Lukaku and we'd be mid-table. Even with players in this form as we'd likely have got a handful more goals. DCL has proven time and again he's not the answer. It's the single biggest issue with the current squad, without question.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 03:07:47 AM
Itís certainly possible for us to get a win against Watford but Iím not sure this team has a silky performance in it and I definitely canít this team going on any sort of run, the talent and balance just isnít there.

I donít think weíll go down but itís going to be a grim season of picking up points here and there.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 03:08:54 AM
I think the real issue with everton is illustrated with the team selection tonight and moshiris recent comments. Before matches we are grouping games into 'ones we will lose' and 'ones we could win'. Its a club of losers top to bottom. The only person who has actually GOT us in the past 2 decades has been Martinez, which is pretty sad really. There is no way we will grow as a club making an appoinment like dyche or allarydyce. We need a winner ffs

Did Martinez get us? He did when we were winning and then made every excuse in the book when we weren't.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Heisenberg on November 03, 2017, 03:12:04 AM
Did Martinez get us? He did when we were winning and then made every excuse in the book when we weren't.

Execution was miles off. But he did get us yes. He had a winners mentality. All the school of science stuff. He was a fan aswell as a manager and I really felt that he wanted to do well for the club, not just himself. Moyes and Koeman were always looking on the next move.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 03:17:00 AM
Execution was miles off. But he did get us yes. He had a winners mentality. All the school of science stuff. He was a fan aswell as a manager and I really felt that he wanted to do well for the club, not just himself. Moyes and Koeman were always looking on the next move.

I don't think he did. When it was going great he'd tell us we should be doing even better and when it turned to shit he told us we were the last English team in Europe and had a fantastic journey. I think he was just a good salesman.
We'd play dreadfully and he'd tell us it was great. That's not demanding the best
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 03:22:03 AM
Players + Manager neither one are right.

My word Barkley can't get back soon enough. At least we can push Rooney up then and maybe he can score a goal.

I'm so flipping tired of trying to shoehorn DCL in as our main striker. He just isn't ready. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, what are other people seeing as the benefits of repeatedly trying it, bar one half versus Man City?


Itís not because heís good itís just because heís a certain profile of player that we donít otherwise have. All first half balls over the top where bouncing off their cbís kite and Gylfi couldnít get near it. DCL knows the role of run run run jump jump jump so the idea is play a not that good but right type of player as a 9.

I think heís a good player and if we were doing wel this year it would have been great to blood him and see him a bit... it the fact we are relying on him is a crime.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Gash on November 03, 2017, 03:23:55 AM
I don't think he did. When it was going great he'd tell us we should be doing even better and when it turned to shit he told us we were the last English team in Europe and had a fantastic journey. I think he was just a good salesman.
We'd play dreadfully and he'd tell us it was great. That's not demanding the best

Yeah, I don't really believe the "he got us" stuff. I think it was just another bit of Martinez spin and telling fans what he thought we wanted to hear. He did his research on us and looked into our history there's no doubt about that but I tend to think most things that he said and did were done with an ulterior motive.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Simon Paul on November 03, 2017, 03:26:18 AM
He thinks that regardless of my views on Everton :(

I'd love to tug on your long locks big boy
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:34:25 AM
Execution was miles off. But he did get us yes. He had a winners mentality. All the school of science stuff. He was a fan aswell as a manager and I really felt that he wanted to do well for the club, not just himself. Moyes and Koeman were always looking on the next move.

He didnít have a winners mentality at all; the numerous games thrown away are testament to that on theyíre own.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Gash on November 03, 2017, 03:35:49 AM
Remember all that "it's in the club's DNA" shite that he kept spouting as well, at one point he couldn't do a fucking interview without mentioning it.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:37:25 AM
Itís not because heís good itís just because heís a certain profile of player that we donít otherwise have. All first half balls over the top where bouncing off their cbís kite and Gylfi couldnít get near it. DCL knows the role of run run run jump jump jump so the idea is play a not that good but right type of player as a 9.

I think heís a good player and if we were doing wel this year it would have been great to blood him and see him a bit... it the fact we are relying on him is a crime.

He lacks a lot of goal threat at the moment.

So at present heís most useful if we need to play the ball into the channels.

If we need more control, plus a threat in the box then he doesnít provide that at the moment.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:40:43 AM
Remember all that "it's in the club's DNA" shite that he kept spouting as well, at one point couldn't do a fucking interview without mentioning it.

It was standard say what is perceived to the opposite of what the previous manager wasnít doing.

He thought / was told that Moyes was seen to be ďhappy with 7thĒ (ah well...) therefore stress wanting to win / history etc.

Koeman thought / was told that the crowd didnít like sideways football flowery nonsense etc.

Unsworth picked up on moans about lack of width / not having a go.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:42:38 AM
I think if the effort is there the crowd will get behind them because it's Unsworths first home game (this time around) and because there's young players in the team.

I don't think luck needs to come into it at all. We need to take our chances when they come.

I think we do need the rub of the green you know. It's easy to say we should take our chances but we don't have players clinical enough to take chances when they come, which is few and far between.

A scruffy goal, a penalty, an own goal even. Something to ignite us which probably won't come from a flowing move and a clinical finish. We're in the market for scraps when your general play doesn't bring many chances from open play.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 03:46:32 AM
Martinez had a winning mentality. Shitting hell
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 03:54:24 AM
He lacks a lot of goal threat at the moment.

So at present heís most useful if we need to play the ball into the channels.

If we need more control, plus a threat in the box then he doesnít provide that at the moment.

We donít have anyone who does do both, but I think Gylfi, Klaassen, Lookman, Rooney, Mirallas, Sandro are all, looking at their histories, potential goal threats in and around a number nine.

It hasnít worked though.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:57:42 AM
We donít have anyone who does do both, but I think Gylfi, Klaassen, Lookman, Rooney, Mirallas, Sandro are all, looking at their histories, potential goal threats in and around a number nine.

It hasnít worked though.

Yes theyíd all be better with a 9. Problem is that DCL doesnít provide enough guarantee of basic hold up / link etc. He has flashes of great control which hint at promise.

The issue for me is that heís hardly getting chance and then if he does, like Leicester missing the ball (or the missed header at the end vs Appollon), then heís not guaranteed to score at all.

If a chance fell to Rooney or Mirallas etc Iíd expect them to score.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 04:02:23 AM
Yes theyíd all be better with a 9. Problem is that DCL doesnít provide enough guarantee of basic hold up / link etc. He has flashes of great control which hint at promise.

The issue for me is that heís hardly getting chance and then if he does, like Leicester missing the ball (or the missed header at the end vs Appollon), then heís not guaranteed to score at all.

If a chance fell to Rooney or Mirallas etc Iíd expect them to score.

I donít disagree. Like I say, would have been nice to blood him but to rely on him is a crime.

I would have spent £30m+ on Rondon.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 03, 2017, 04:04:12 AM
Whoever comes in needs to sort out defence out ASAP.

As hard as we find to score goals, we're also atrocious defensively. It saddens me.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: macker07 on November 03, 2017, 12:09:50 PM
The reality is, we are bottom three. Canít score goals, canít defend. Do not have a true leader on the field, and management at our club is letting us down. Our money goes to pay people who can make decisions. Whoever decided to play Sigurdsson as a lone striker should never ever go near a football pitch ever again.

Ever since we were thrown out of Europe, due to our classless neighbours. Our management has been shocking, I personally have had enough of the time, effort, and money I have put into this club. I believe we are doomed this season. My love affair with the blues is sadly coming to an end.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Jamokachi on November 03, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
The reality is, we are bottom three. Canít score goals, canít defend. Do not have a true leader on the field, and management at our club is letting us down. Our money goes to pay people who can make decisions. Whoever decided to play Sigurdsson as a lone striker should never ever go near a football pitch ever again.

Ever since we were thrown out of Europe, due to our classless neighbours. Our management has been shocking, I personally have had enough of the time, effort, and money I have put into this club. I believe we are doomed this season. My love affair with the blues is sadly coming to an end.

Oh shut up
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Brownie20 on November 03, 2017, 03:46:07 PM
The reality is, we are bottom three. Canít score goals, canít defend. Do not have a true leader on the field, and management at our club is letting us down. Our money goes to pay people who can make decisions. Whoever decided to play Sigurdsson as a lone striker should never ever go near a football pitch ever again.

Ever since we were thrown out of Europe, due to our classless neighbours. Our management has been shocking, I personally have had enough of the time, effort, and money I have put into this club. I believe we are doomed this season. My love affair with the blues is sadly coming to an end.

Bye then
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 03, 2017, 03:56:02 PM
Regardless of how much shitter we get or championship football or fucking Big Sam....this is my team it always will be ....there is no other .
Everton for ever.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Brownie20 on November 03, 2017, 03:58:12 PM
Regardless of how much shitter we get or championship football or fucking Big Sam....this is my team it always will be ....there is no other .
Everton for ever.

Same here - top tier or bottom tier, Everton are my club. Thick and thin
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:21:20 PM
The reality is, we are bottom three. Canít score goals, canít defend. Do not have a true leader on the field, and management at our club is letting us down. Our money goes to pay people who can make decisions. Whoever decided to play Sigurdsson as a lone striker should never ever go near a football pitch ever again.

Ever since we were thrown out of Europe, due to our classless neighbours. Our management has been shocking, I personally have had enough of the time, effort, and money I have put into this club. I believe we are doomed this season. My love affair with the blues is sadly coming to an end.

Sounds like you missed the late 90's early 00's, they were great fun!!!
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 04:22:52 PM
Regardless of how much shitter we get or championship football or fucking Big Sam....this is my team it always will be ....there is no other .
Everton for ever.

Two of those things won't happen.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 04:31:41 PM
Regardless of how much shitter we get or championship football or fucking Big Sam....this is my team it always will be ....there is no other .
Everton for ever.

Weíre Everton and weíll be everton forever.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Rhys on November 03, 2017, 04:39:51 PM
Just beyond worried now. Villas was a slow decline but you could see it coming a mile off. Poor recruitment and god awful management in the end.

Massive over reaction I will admit but it just all feels so grim.

Villa's was over a big period of time though. Finished 16th, 15th, 15th, 17th before they finally went down. That's 5 years of being awful and bad recruitment summer after summer where by the end the players, fans and club were in pieces.

We finished 7th 6 months ago, we dont know for sure but it's more likely this is a very bad period where players are on absolute bottom confidence and form levels. We had bad periods under moyes early in seasons where good players look bad, then when results started to come they went back to looking good players. We know players like Schneiderlin, Davies, Gueye, Gylfi arent terrible players like theyve looked for most of the season. It is more likely when form and confidence comes back they go back to being good players than all of a sudden all be finished as top flight footballers.

There is a lot of work, but still important to remember we are 9 league games into the season. Plenty of time for whoever comes in to work with them and find a way to get them going and up the table.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: montanatoffeefan on November 03, 2017, 05:48:09 PM
Villa's was over a big period of time though. Finished 16th, 15th, 15th, 17th before they finally went down. That's 5 years of being awful and bad recruitment summer after summer where by the end the players, fans and club were in pieces.

We finished 7th 6 months ago, we dont know for sure but it's more likely this is a very bad period where players are on absolute bottom confidence and form levels. We had bad periods under moyes early in seasons where good players look bad, then when results started to come they went back to looking good players. We know players like Schneiderlin, Davies, Gueye, Gylfi arent terrible players like theyve looked for most of the season. It is more likely when form and confidence comes back they go back to being good players than all of a sudden all be finished as top flight footballers.

There is a lot of work, but still important to remember we are 9 league games into the season. Plenty of time for whoever comes in to work with them and find a way to get them going and up the table.

We can hope. But I just don't see anything much to hang that hope on right now.

Those Moyes teams had an established identity and core of players designed to assert it with a history of doing just that. And they thrived on challenges.

This team...what the hell is it? As has been pointed out, it does nothing very well in any part of the pitch. So it's hard to see a foundation and strength to build on.

New manager is going to have to first establish an identity to the team and the players he can rely on. I suspect he'll also need to ship off a number of players not suited by skillset or attitude to help bring that off. That's a lot of fundamental tasks this far into the season. He'll need to be good.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 03, 2017, 05:56:42 PM
The Samaritans:

Freephone 116 124
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 03, 2017, 06:36:56 PM
I feel we have a better squad now, than we have ever had, all we are missing is a couple of strikers..

but it looks worse than what it is, as we have no strikers, yes we need a new lb and a cb, but that is magnified as we can't keep the ball at the other end of the pitch.

our starting 11 is still lopsided, not Unsworths fault tho.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 06:37:11 PM
The reality is, we are bottom three. Canít score goals, canít defend. Do not have a true leader on the field, and management at our club is letting us down. Our money goes to pay people who can make decisions. Whoever decided to play Sigurdsson as a lone striker should never ever go near a football pitch ever again.

Ever since we were thrown out of Europe, due to our classless neighbours. Our management has been shocking, I personally have had enough of the time, effort, and money I have put into this club. I believe we are doomed this season. My love affair with the blues is sadly coming to an end.

If you were here under Walter I'm not sure why present circumstances feel so bad.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 03, 2017, 07:52:48 PM
We can hope. But I just don't see anything much to hang that hope on right now.

Those Moyes teams had an established identity and core of players designed to assert it with a history of doing just that. And they thrived on challenges.

This team...what the hell is it? As has been pointed out, it does nothing very well in any part of the pitch. So it's hard to see a foundation and strength to build on.

New manager is going to have to first establish an identity to the team and the players he can rely on. I suspect he'll also need to ship off a number of players not suited by skillset or attitude to help bring that off. That's a lot of fundamental tasks this far into the season. He'll need to be good.

This is exactly why we need someone made of iron, who can build the squad up with positive vision (but not bullshit) and get everyone believing and pulling together again.  And be strong enough to cut out the deadwood who don't want to be team players, whoever they might be.

NOT a fucking Fat Sam, serving his own crooked ambition.  My God, the message that would send to the dressing room, let alone supporters.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 07:57:04 PM
I feel we have a better squad now, than we have ever had, all we are missing is a couple of strikers..

but it looks worse than what it is, as we have no strikers, yes we need a new lb and a cb, but that is magnified as we can't keep the ball at the other end of the pitch.

our starting 11 is still lopsided, not Unsworths fault tho.

Not even close.

Stones Barkley Lukaku were all 40-50m rated players in the spine of the team a few years ago, all either playing CL or soon to be now.

Plus jags Baines Coleman Barry a year younger.

That team would fucking bum this one everywhere
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 03, 2017, 08:01:04 PM
Not even close.

Stones Barkley Lukaku were all 40-50m rated players in the spine of the team a few years ago, all either playing CL or soon to be now.

Plus jags Baines Coleman Barry a year younger.

That team would fucking bum this one everywhere

Rom alone is worth at least 3-4 of our current lot, Barkley 2-3
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 08:05:38 PM
This is exactly why we need someone made of iron, who can build the squad up with positive vision (but not bullshit) and get everyone believing and pulling together again.  And be strong enough to cut out the deadwood who don't want to be team players, whoever they might be.

NOT a fucking Fat Sam, serving his own crooked ambition.  My God, the message that would send to the dressing room, let alone supporters.


I'm sorry but what dramatic nonsense. He's a good manager who's repeatedly done a good job with struggling sides. You make it sound like he's a soap opera villain. "My god what message would it send to the dressing room" probably just that they've been incredibly shit
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 03, 2017, 08:11:21 PM
He's a grifter.  Doesn't have the rakish good looks for soap opera villain.

No club with self-respect would hire him, especially post-scandal.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 03, 2017, 08:16:35 PM
Not even close.

Stones Barkley Lukaku were all 40-50m rated players in the spine of the team a few years ago, all either playing CL or soon to be now.

Plus jags Baines Coleman Barry a year younger.

That team would fucking bum this one everywhere

i know it would, i said we are a few strikers off a few defenders off,, but over all there is more of a squad, but out first 11 is shit.

Barkley will be back, We will get a few strikers in and a defender of 2, or get Feeney to play..

this squad looks shit as we have no creative midfielder and no striker, with either of those we would be better..

i was on about squads, not the first 11.. course the first team with Barkley Rom and Stones would kill our current 11.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blue1948 on November 03, 2017, 08:20:38 PM
And we've got rid of the clown responsible for those performances
That statement is set on rocky ground , the fact is they are almost as bad now .The rot is a much in the players as the management .That is not to take any blame off Koeman but he has  gone now and we haven't got a striker scoring goals ,that I  think is our main problem .How can they gain confidence if we cannot score ? I would love to know the truth about that fiasco in the summer .
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 08:21:29 PM
He's a grifter.  Doesn't have the rakish good looks for soap opera villain.

No club with self-respect would hire him, especially post-scandal.

What scandal? I genuinely can't quite remember the details past he was enjoying wine by the pint at the time. Was it third party ownership of players and how to do it without breaking rules?
Is your problem you don't rate him or the scandal? Would you be saying the same if it were guardiola enjoying large measures of wine?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: everton1952 on November 03, 2017, 08:26:02 PM
The reality is, we are bottom three. Can’t score goals, can’t defend. Do not have a true leader on the field, and management at our club is letting us down. Our money goes to pay people who can make decisions. Whoever decided to play Sigurdsson as a lone striker should never ever go near a football pitch ever again.

Ever since we were thrown out of Europe, due to our classless neighbours. Our management has been shocking, I personally have had enough of the time, effort, and money I have put into this club. I believe we are doomed this season. My love affair with the blues is sadly coming to an end.
As you are giving up, do you have a season ticket? If so can I buy the remaining games off you please? I have two people desperate for tickets. Does not matter where in the ground.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: everton1952 on November 03, 2017, 08:30:18 PM
I feel we have a better squad now, than we have ever had, all we are missing is a couple of strikers..

but it looks worse than what it is, as we have no strikers, yes we need a new lb and a cb, but that is magnified as we can't keep the ball at the other end of the pitch.

our starting 11 is still lopsided, not Unsworths fault tho.
Did you read through this before you sent it?  "A better squad now than we have ever had" Then "we are missing a couple of strikers, a left back, a centre back"  A good laugh that!!
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 03, 2017, 08:52:35 PM
Not even close.

Stones Barkley Lukaku were all 40-50m rated players in the spine of the team a few years ago, all either playing CL or soon to be now.

Plus jags Baines Coleman Barry a year younger.

That team would fucking bum this one everywhere
Unless of course Lukaku had one of his many many off games ,Barkley wasn't playing like he did against Newcastle for 45 mins two years or so ago and Stones got caught out trying to stride forward like we have all seen him do ...then id agree to a certain extent .😛😜we may well get bummed.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Rodenplav64 on November 03, 2017, 10:14:52 PM
Our squad is fucking woeful but I just can't see us going down . It will require some of the younger players living up to their potential sooner rather than later though . The likes of Williams , Jagileka , Baines are just not going to rediscover their form or legs and will just heap the pressure on Kenny and Holgate not to mention the shell shocked Pickford . There is no creativity in the side without Barkley and the pace we have in Lookman and Bolasie is inexperienced or just plain erratic . Coleman is sorely missed . Schniederlin is capable of so much more but is he arsed ?  Whoever takes over has a massive task that's a certainty .
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 03, 2017, 10:28:00 PM
Rom's bad games could still always turn on a dime at any moment...and the opposition had to mark him like he was going to transform into SuperRom regardless.  He always opened the pitch up for everyone else that way.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 03, 2017, 11:02:04 PM
Did you read through this before you sent it?  "A better squad now than we have ever had" Then "we are missing a couple of strikers, a left back, a centre back"  A good laugh that!!

but look at the number tens we have.. choice of nearly 5!! and atleast 4 wingers!! woohooo not to mention the cm area where we have another 5-6 players..

the squad over all is more solid. even tho we have lost our main goalscorer and our cbs are aging.. wouldnt be as bad if Mori wasnt injured.. lol.

but yeah squad wise/all over the pitch we have depth.. shame we have no depth for the positions that matter.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Everton Mint on November 04, 2017, 05:53:37 PM
The kids are too inexperienced to be relied on and many of the senior players are past their best.

Its a perfect storm and one that any decent Club management would've seen coming and addressed.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Tofifee on November 04, 2017, 06:05:25 PM
The Rooney question is a right quandry
In a way, his playing 10 is totally negating Sigs, rendering our record signing almost useless
BUT
Wazza has been one of our best players when on the pitch and is our only source of goals so far!
So do u drop the one lad scoring goals, to fit it another who hasnt kicked a ball for us since he joined
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 04, 2017, 08:33:02 PM
The Rooney question is a right quandry
In a way, his playing 10 is totally negating Sigs, rendering our record signing almost useless
BUT
Wazza has been one of our best players when on the pitch and is our only source of goals so far!
So do u drop the one lad scoring goals, to fit it another who hasnt kicked a ball for us since he joined
Imho hardly banging them in though is he .....we seem create a lot more when he is on the bench .
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: bluenuck on November 04, 2017, 11:58:52 PM
So the "one win and we'll be mid table" argument is sort of gone now....
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: DIXIEDEAN on November 05, 2017, 12:09:06 AM
siggy should be getting no where near our team as he's offered fuck all aside from a couple of decent free kicks, rooney is more productive.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 05, 2017, 12:23:44 AM
Imho hardly banging them in though is he .....we seem create a lot more when he is on the bench .

Do we?
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 05, 2017, 12:28:53 AM
Do we?
Defo not
He's been the main source of goals and chances but hey, he drops off into positions he shouldn't

No one seems to question why he does that tho
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 05, 2017, 12:38:12 AM
Defo not
He's been the main source of goals and chances but hey, he drops off into positions he shouldn't

No one seems to question why he does that tho

I mean it might be a problem were everyone else playing well and being stunted by him dropping too deep.

But given how woeful we are, complaining about this is straying towards moaning about Lukakuís first touch again.

Yes, not ideal, but a long way from being the first thing to sort out.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: kramer0 on November 05, 2017, 12:58:45 AM
I had way less tolerance for Rooney's roaming during the Koeman free-for-all than I do now. When the ball was sailing over his head repeatedly, it didn't make a whole lot of sense to accommodate him, especially given his physical decline.

With an actual plan in possession, we need Rooney on the pitch. He's our best passer and the player most likely to make something happen from open play. You saw it against Chelsea. When Unsworth took him off, it really loosened our grip on the game and allowed Chelsea to breathe a bit.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 05, 2017, 01:31:05 AM
I'm not a particular fan of what Rooney does these days, but I think you have to recognize he is one of the few that can create/score so until we bring in better players he's going to have a place in the side to some extent.

I'd much rather it be him up top or at least playing around the final third more when Barkley is back though. Goals are a rare commodity in our squad so players who can score should be put in positions which give them the best chance of doing so.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 05, 2017, 01:33:19 AM
Do we?
Sig created more the other night when Rooney was in a different country ...and we're trully shite in front of goal ...if he plays he needs positional awareness of others around him or it fucks with everything in the opposition half imho. .....also some say he's the best passer I can't think of anyone who's give the ball away more this season.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 05, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
I mean it might be a problem were everyone else playing well and being stunted by him dropping too deep.

But given how woeful we are, complaining about this is straying towards moaning about Lukaku's first touch again.

Yes, not ideal, but a long way from being the first thing to sort out.
But goals win games and if he's in our half screwing us going forward .(DCL isolated because Rooney is 30yards away)..when we are 'not' scoring goals ....it's counter productive and answers itself really ...so i get your point but it makes little sense .
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 05, 2017, 01:38:50 AM
Funnily my main form of optimism that we'll be ok stems more so on the fact that another weekend shows that outside the top 6 there is a remarkable amount of dross in the PL.

Crystal Palace, Swansea, Bournemouth, Stoke, West Ham, Newcastle...are the main reasons to be hopeful. Although really looking at the league table really from 20 to 7th it's pretty shitty quality all of which will likely struggle at various times in the season.

The gulf looks very wide right now between 6th and 7th.

I feel at least our situation can be remedied by a few key signings and a quality manager.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 05, 2017, 01:41:21 AM
Funnily my main form of optimism that we'll be ok stems more so on the fact that another weekend shows that outside the top 6 there is a remarkable amount of dross in the PL.

Crystal Palace, Swansea, Bournemouth, Stoke, West Ham, Newcastle...are the main reasons to be hopeful. Although really looking at the league table really from 20 to 7th it's pretty shitty quality all of which will likely struggle at various times in the season.

The gulf looks very wide right now between 6th and 7th.

I feel at least our situation can be remedied by a few key signings and a quality manager.

Only problem is our last 2 management appointments and our last 3 transfer windows have been inept
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 05, 2017, 01:41:56 AM
Sig created more the other night when Rooney was in a different country ...and we're trully shite in front of goal ...if he plays he needs positional awareness of others around him or it fucks with everything in the opposition half imho. .....also some say he's the best passer I can't think of anyone who's give the ball away more this season.

Yeah he certainly has been very slack in some of the passing. I'm surprised by how little stick he's got for it from the crowd, it's probably as he's usually got away with it. It's literally every game though he'll put something on a plate for the opposing team.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 05, 2017, 01:42:39 AM
Only problem is our last 2 management appointments and our last 3 transfer windows have been inept

Without doubt. Very limited thinking the whole way through seems to be a common theme.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 05, 2017, 02:13:32 AM
Sig created more the other night when Rooney was in a different country ...and we're trully shite in front of goal ...if he plays he needs positional awareness of others around him or it fucks with everything in the opposition half imho. .....also some say he's the best passer I can't think of anyone who's give the ball away more this season.

Might have forgotten, but I canít remember those?!

Also there have been some very slack passes but Iíd say thatís because heís come to get the ball so much.

Plus everyone has given terrible passes away; part of the vicious circle of poor form / confidence.

Yes he needs to be higher up but itís not as if heís taking the ball off people who had previously been finding good forward passes.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Everton Mint on November 05, 2017, 05:47:33 PM
I really feel for Rooney at the moment... he's trying to do everything as the team around him are so poor.

He's our best passer and creator, but also our most reliable goal-scorer.

We could really do with two Rooney's... the chances he creates need him on the end of them.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 05, 2017, 05:49:17 PM
I really feel for Rooney at the moment... he's trying to do everything as the team around him are so poor.

He's our best passer and creator, but also our most reliable goal-scorer.

We could really do with two Rooney's... the chances he creates need him on the end of them.

Sorry but this is bordering on the delusional. He's been shite too. Not as shite as most but still shite.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: brap2 on November 05, 2017, 06:08:51 PM
The Rooney question is a right quandry
In a way, his playing 10 is totally negating Sigs, rendering our record signing almost useless
BUT
Wazza has been one of our best players when on the pitch and is our only source of goals so far!
So do u drop the one lad scoring goals, to fit it another who hasnt kicked a ball for us since he joined
I had way less tolerance for Rooney's roaming during the Koeman free-for-all than I do now. When the ball was sailing over his head repeatedly, it didn't make a whole lot of sense to accommodate him, especially given his physical decline.

With an actual plan in possession, we need Rooney on the pitch. He's our best passer and the player most likely to make something happen from open play. You saw it against Chelsea. When Unsworth took him off, it really loosened our grip on the game and allowed Chelsea to breathe a bit.

Not his biggest fan but heís still head and shoulders above this lot and we need him.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Everton Mint on November 05, 2017, 06:22:11 PM
Sorry but this is bordering on the delusional. He's been shite too. Not as shite as most but still shite.

Shite, one of the greatest players this country has ever produced ? No, you're spouting pure anti-Rooney bias.

I dont see how he can do much better when he's in such a God-awful team and trying to do the job of two players, and the captain.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 05, 2017, 06:28:40 PM
Shite, one of the greatest players this country has ever produced ? No, you're spouting pure anti-Rooney bias.

I dont see how he can do much better when he's in such a God-awful team and trying to do the job of two players, and the captain.
But that right there  is the issue with Rooney ...he's trying to do to much if he stuck to his position he could be a lot more potent in front of goal ....but his nomad style puts way to much space between the mid and forwards .

Not sure why some miss the glaring issue of him tbh.
He's definitely not the same player your and others are thinking of from four or five years ago .

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Everton Mint on November 05, 2017, 06:33:54 PM
But that right there  is the issue with Rooney ...he's trying to do to much if he stuck to his position he could be a lot more potent in front of goal ....but his nomad style puts way to much space between the mid and forwards .

Not sure why some miss the glaring issue of him tbh.
He's definitely not the same player your and others are thinking of from four or five years ago .



He's doing what he can to help the team and he expects the others to do the same and feed off what he produces.

If he was lazy, just here for the money, always moaning or unfit then maybe. But there's no reason to label him shite.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 05, 2017, 06:36:54 PM
Not even close.

Stones Barkley Lukaku were all 40-50m rated players in the spine of the team a few years ago, all either playing CL or soon to be now.

Plus jags Baines Coleman Barry a year younger.

That team would fucking bum this one everywhere

Depressing ain't it. Three of the Premier League's top talents, binned off to be replaced by Williams, Rooney and Klaassan. I could cry.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: gizzblue on November 05, 2017, 06:37:16 PM
He's doing what he can to help the team and he expects the others to do the same and feed off what he produces.

If he was lazy, just here for the money, always moaning or unfit then maybe. But there's no reason to label him shite.
I think the other poster was saying he's been shite (as have the team)...not he is shite ...but sentimentality lends itself to being blind when he does have bad games imho.

Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 05, 2017, 06:38:57 PM
Shite, one of the greatest players this country has ever produced ? No, you're spouting pure anti-Rooney bias.

I dont see how he can do much better when he's in such a God-awful team and trying to do the job of two players, and the captain.

yeah he's a bit crap cos he's the victim of his on going brilliance
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 05, 2017, 06:41:16 PM
Depressing ain't it. Three of the Premier League's top talents, binned off to be replaced by Williams, Rooney and Klaassan. I could cry.

They all wanted to leave, so binned off is wrong. Plus we havenít signed the Lukaku replacement yet ;)

Underlying issue though yes, in that weíve not tried to sign similar profile players.

Instead going for (very) cheap younger players and spending the money on proven players who (so far) havenít settled to produce what you expect.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 05, 2017, 06:43:40 PM
They all wanted to leave, so binned off is wrong. Plus we havenít signed the Lukaku replacement yet ;)

Underlying issue though yes, in that weíve not tried to sign similar profile players.

Instead going for (very) cheap younger players and spending the money on proven players who (so far) havenít settled to produce what you expect.

I think the real issue with the proven players is even if they do reach the level we'd hoped and expected they are still short of being good enough for what was apparently our ambitions. We bought at best proven not quite good enough
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 05, 2017, 06:51:27 PM
I think the real issue with the proven players is even if they do reach the level we'd hoped and expected they are still short of being good enough for what was apparently our ambitions. We bought at best proven not quite good enough

Yes if we werenít moving on.

Although thereíd be the synergy argument of having 11 proven PL players being better than 5/6 who drag along the rest etc.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: Lxxx on November 05, 2017, 08:01:41 PM
They all wanted to leave, so binned off is wrong. Plus we haven’t signed the Lukaku replacement yet ;)

Underlying issue though yes, in that we’ve not tried to sign similar profile players.

Instead going for (very) cheap younger players and spending the money on proven players who (so far) haven’t settled to produce what you expect.

Semantics. We sold two players under contract without already having a replacement lined up of sufficient quality to replace them. On top of that we've decided to replace Barkley with players who wouldn't get in the team ahead of him if he was fit. Poor planning on a number of levels.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GLewis on November 05, 2017, 08:24:42 PM
Semantics. We sold two players under contract without already having a replacement lined up of sufficient quality to replace them. On top of that we've decided to replace Barkley with players who wouldn't get in the team ahead of him if he was fit. Poor planning on a number of levels.


Oh yeah, the planning / acting upon has been terrible.

We wouldnít have sold Stones / Lukaku if they didnít want to go though.

As always, itís easier to sell good players than it is to buy them.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: blueToffee on November 05, 2017, 11:55:07 PM
wrong thread.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 06, 2017, 05:21:46 PM
Huge game against Palace coming up (who, incidentally played really well against West Ham and Spurs). Letís not kid ourselves, we were pretty awful against Watford but if that result canít kick-start our season, nothing will.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: everton1952 on November 06, 2017, 05:37:32 PM
Some of the comments about Rooney being shite are too strong. There is certainly something wrong with him. He was terrible against Watford and it is painful to see him struggling. His head knows what to do but the body ain't responding anymore? If that is permanent then we and him made a mistake coming back. Is there a way to play him without exposing his slow reactions? I do not know. He will always be remembered here for his good early days before he swanned off to make his fortune and reputation and a bagful of medals we could never have given him.
Title: Re: Perspective
Post by: stirlingblue on November 06, 2017, 06:18:34 PM
I think people are really overstating how poor Rooney has been, to me it's looked clear that he is still a level above what we have in the rest of the team even though he is out of form.

He'll continue to give the ball away in a dangerous position once or twice per game, but he's done that for most of his career and I don't really expect him to change that now.

He's not a winger though, and if we aren't going to play him up top or in an attacking midfield role then we should bench him and use him as an impact player.