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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Thornton_19 on November 04, 2017, 06:46:37 AM

Title: Panorama
Post by: Thornton_19 on November 04, 2017, 06:46:37 AM
https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/926605716131078144

Looks like little old Everton will be investigated on Panorama.

What a great time to be a blue.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 04, 2017, 07:02:42 AM
Would be the most Everton thing ever if we were investigated, found to have done wrong...and given a transfer ban
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Thornton_19 on November 04, 2017, 07:06:13 AM
Would be the most Everton thing ever if we were investigated, found to have done wrong...and given a transfer ban
Fuck me I'd just move to Greece and start supporting Aris Thessaloniki
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Tinga on November 04, 2017, 07:20:30 AM
Well that just made my stomach sink.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 04, 2017, 07:50:16 AM
Someone copy and paste the whole article?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: blueToffee on November 04, 2017, 10:07:37 AM
Evertonís ownership and the alleged involvement of Alisher Usmanov, the Arsenal shareholder, at Goodison Park will be scrutinised in a two-part Panorama special to be broadcast on the BBC tomorrow and Monday.
The BBC has obtained documents pertaining to Usmanovís purchase of a 14.58 per cent stake in Arsenal in 2007 through the Red & White investment vehicle that he jointly owned with Farhad Moshiri, who sold up to his business partner last year to facilitate his purchase of 49.9 per cent of Everton.
It is understood that Panorama will claim that the documents show that Moshiriís initial Arsenal stake was a gift from Usmanov, leading to the suggestion that the billionaire from Uzbekistan was behind the Iranianís purchase of Everton as he was the original source of the funds.
Everton and a spokesman for Usmanov deny that he has any involvement at Goodison, which would be a breach of Premier League rules that state any shareholder with a 10 per cent stake in one club cannot buy into another.
There have been unsubstantiated rumours for some time that Usmanov would ultimately join Moshiri at Everton as he has no influence at Arsenal and the pair have a number of joint investments, whispers which increased after Usmanovís company, USM Holdings, announced a sponsorship deal for the clubís training ground in January.
The Premier League conducted a rigorous due diligence process before signing off Moshiriís Everton purchase and is confident that he used his own money.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: blueToffee on November 04, 2017, 10:11:23 AM
A two part episode? Hmm. They must have some details.

If they're using terms like "suggestion" it may be nothing concrete.

Will all that goes on in football, I'd hope this would go nowhere as it seems fairly par for the course, but I'd never count my chickens where this club is concerned.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Confucius on November 04, 2017, 11:25:30 AM
I am reckoning it is bloody brilliant. Usmanov is one of us. Maybe we can drop 200M like it's nothing
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: TheTone on November 04, 2017, 11:36:25 AM
My first thoughts on this while reading it is that someone at Everton doesn't like Moshiri and has been going off feeding information to the press

hopefully it's a load of shite

We certainly could do without this



Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: mikey_blue on November 04, 2017, 11:52:45 AM
Maybe an effort by arsenal to push Usmanov out?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 04, 2017, 12:55:01 PM
If due diligence has been carried out by the PL and is as robust as it says then there really shouldn't be anything to worry about.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Sir Stealth on November 04, 2017, 01:47:14 PM
Worst thing about this is that we're going to be bombarded with more thrilling Business Matters podcasts from The Esk 😩
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: bluenuck on November 04, 2017, 01:54:24 PM
Worst thing about this is that we're going to be bombarded with more thrilling Business Matters podcasts from The Esk 😩

Well I'm having troubles falling asleep tonight...
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Macca77 on November 04, 2017, 02:06:39 PM
Well this is just efffing marvellous isnt it
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Fynci on November 04, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
Great season this lads.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 04, 2017, 02:12:46 PM
I'm pretty sure that if there was nothing even remotely dodgy, there wouldn't be a 2 part investigative show about it
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: blue1948 on November 04, 2017, 02:13:43 PM
It could work in our favour if they find something and force Usmanov's hand .Will he stay where he has no influence or jump ship .
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: ally2 on November 04, 2017, 02:14:58 PM
Never a dull moment
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Goaljira on November 04, 2017, 02:15:59 PM
Where was Panorama when the shite absolutely definitely didnt go into administration the other year?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Jamokachi on November 04, 2017, 02:16:09 PM
As said, he's passed the "fit and proper" test, so I'm not worried.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 04, 2017, 02:22:07 PM
As said, he's passed the "fit and proper" test, so I'm not worried.

What like the Venkys did, or all the people that have owned Leeds? lolol

Think it's fairly obvious that the fit amd proper test isn't fit and proper itself.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Goaljira on November 04, 2017, 02:23:20 PM
Thats just clickbaiting that article.  The '2 part special' isnt about us.  Its about off shore holdings and tax evasion as a whole thing, of which blue & white holdings/red & white holdings would be a part of.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Gash on November 04, 2017, 02:30:45 PM
What like the Venkys did, or all the people that have owned Leeds? lolol

Think it's fairly obvious that the fit amd proper test isn't fit and proper itself.

The Venky's were financially fine, they just didn't have the finances required for a modern Premier League club. They also didn't have a clue about football and didn't realise you could be relegated from the Premier League.

Leeds is different as the fit and proper check isn't nearly as strict in the Championship as it is in the Premier League.

Just saw a trailer for the programme, it's not about Everton it's about people and offshore money, we'll probably hardly get a mention.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: sam of the south on November 04, 2017, 02:33:31 PM
Surely this would put the kibosh on Usmanov ever coming over to us as it would confirm these suspicions.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 04, 2017, 03:12:24 PM
Worst thing about this is that we're going to be bombarded with more thrilling Business Matters podcasts from The Esk 😩
I think Panorama might be out of their depth here!
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 04, 2017, 03:39:26 PM
Thats just clickbaiting that article.  The '2 part special' isnt about us.  Its about off shore holdings and tax evasion as a whole thing, of which blue & white holdings/red & white holdings would be a part of.

The click baiting, kopite loving, peadophile hiding bastards.
Title: Panorama
Post by: mikey_blue on November 04, 2017, 03:48:19 PM
The Venky's were financially fine, they just didn't have the finances required for a modern Premier League club. They also didn't have a clue about football and didn't realise you could be relegated from the Premier League.

Leeds is different as the fit and proper check isn't nearly as strict in the Championship as it is in the Premier League.

Just saw a trailer for the programme, it's not about Everton it's about people and offshore money, we'll probably hardly get a mention.

Hopefully it'll be as much time as we get on Match Of The Day.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 04, 2017, 03:50:52 PM
Wouldnít Usmanov just have his lawyers crush it if there was nothing in it?

After all it could effect his ultimate aim of buying Arsenal or even his plan B if thereís truth in this.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: therealdunc on November 04, 2017, 03:56:26 PM
The Venky's were financially fine, they just didn't have the finances required for a modern Premier League club. They also didn't have a clue about football and didn't realise you could be relegated from the Premier League.


I think you need to do your research on the Venkys.
Everything you have wrote is factually incorrect

They do have enough money to run a premier league club, they just donít want to spend any of their own money

They were fully aware of relegation, they talk about it in various interviews

They hired in chief execs to advise them regarding football, which is why Steve Kean got the job  :eh:

Clearly they were badly advised, but what you have wrote is factually incorrect
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ridge on November 04, 2017, 04:06:40 PM
Not surprised, but doubt that they have much evidence that proves it.

It's fairly obvious there is more than meets eye. But Moshiri has money and no other club interests in UK.

Philip Green was through a shell company, with Earl in similar position to Moshiri.

Deal they would need to expose would be between Moshiri and Usmanov. Good luck finding where they start and finish.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Gash on November 04, 2017, 04:07:25 PM
I think you need to do your research on the Venkys.
Everything you have wrote is factually incorrect

They do have enough money to run a premier league club, they just donít want to spend any of their own money

They were fully aware of relegation, they talk about it in various interviews

They hired in chief execs to advise them regarding football, which is why Steve Kean got the job  :eh:

Clearly they were badly advised, but what you have wrote is factually incorrect

My original point was they they did have the finances to pass the fit and proper test, whether they were willing/able to fund a Premier League club we'll never know as they've clearly not done it hence them being nowhere near the Premier League. They also don't have a clue about football and have neglected the club for years. There's nothing incorrect about those two statements.

Beyond that I don't really care enough to research what's going on with them.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Toddacelli on November 04, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Do you know how disappointed I was to enter this thread hoping to find a virtual 360 degree panorama of the inside of our new Bramley Moore Dock stadium?

Do you?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 04, 2017, 04:18:43 PM
Do you know how disappointed I was to enter this thread hoping to find a virtual 360 degree panorama of the inside of our new Bramley Moore Dock stadium?

Do you?

Hahaha that was my first thought too
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 04, 2017, 04:21:40 PM
Not a word on Phillip Green for a decade but within two years they're picking at Moshiri

Defo an Arsenal fan involved there
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: gizzblue on November 04, 2017, 04:55:01 PM
Not a word on Phillip Green for a decade but within two years they're picking at Moshiri

Defo an Arsenal fan involved there
Or a red shite.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: School of Science on November 04, 2017, 07:44:15 PM
Not a word on Phillip Green for a decade but within two years they're picking at Moshiri

Defo an Arsenal fan involved there

Hahaha was thinking that, if ever there was a time to investigate Everton for dodgy dealings was when we had Bill and true blue holdings running us with Robert Earl and Philip Green in the background, but then we were skint then, where was the fun in that. Now we have a rich owner, maybe just maybe they can ruin that, where's that conspiracy thread now.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 04, 2017, 07:46:26 PM
but no, Moshiri gets given shares as a gift, so when he sells them they weren't his to sell?

have a word FFS Panorama.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on November 04, 2017, 07:49:23 PM
Or a red shite.

Bramley Moore Dock has pushed the cunts over the edge hasnít it. Theyíre scraping the barrel for shit to sling.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: blue1948 on November 04, 2017, 08:19:53 PM
The Venky's were financially fine, they just didn't have the finances required for a modern Premier League club. They also didn't have a clue about football and didn't realise you could be relegated from the Premier League.

Leeds is different as the fit and proper check isn't nearly as strict in the Championship as it is in the Premier League.

Just saw a trailer for the programme, it's not about Everton it's about people and offshore money, we'll probably hardly get a mention.
You right about most but being Everton there is no way we will get a mention from the beeb
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Tinga on November 04, 2017, 08:24:47 PM
So we're ok here then? Would be just the icing on the cake for this to go even more tits up wouldn't it.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: boothill on November 04, 2017, 08:33:21 PM
Seen the nasty vermin wallpushers with their comments underneath
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: gizzblue on November 04, 2017, 08:40:36 PM
You right about most but being Everton there is no way we will get a mention from the beeb
It will just be mentioned as "a certain football club in the northwest" 😅😅😅
For the last three mins of the program as is the norm for BBC.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: bluestevie on November 04, 2017, 09:59:57 PM
Nice to se some sensibility and humour with this, the pissy pant queens at GOT have got a 20 page thread up about it, most using as a point score to say how "right" they were about Moshiri while others are panicking about points deductions and transfer bans
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Major Clanger on November 04, 2017, 10:02:06 PM
Not a word on Phillip Green for a decade but within two years they're picking at Moshiri

Defo an Arsenal fan involved there

They would've surely picked up on Philip Green then, wouldn't they.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 05, 2017, 12:13:49 AM
The Venky's were financially fine, they just didn't have the finances required for a modern Premier League club. They also didn't have a clue about football and didn't realise you could be relegated from the Premier League.

Leeds is different as the fit and proper check isn't nearly as strict in the Championship as it is in the Premier League.

Just saw a trailer for the programme, it's not about Everton it's about people and offshore money, we'll probably hardly get a mention.

I'd have thought a genuine fit and proper test would require, at the very least, some kind of plan on how an owner will responsibly run the club as opposed to just a financial check (the Venkys are worth billions by the way, they just chose not to spend money).
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: ynotd on November 05, 2017, 03:15:35 AM
Why weren't panorama suggesting Jimmy Savile was a nonce when they all knew he was at it?

The PL wouldn't have sanctioned the takeover if it was underhand its just another anti scouse witchunt from the bbc and south of england paedo enablers.

In fact escla is probably the informer
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: therealdunc on November 05, 2017, 01:00:44 PM
BBC cover up

The BBC is untouchable, itís a really bizarre situation we have with the nations broadcaster management knowing the allegations but failing to act or investigate.
The saville incident shows the BBC must be openly criticised and limited in its power.

Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 05, 2017, 02:40:16 PM
Look at the the BBC's chief political commentator and the Tory bias she pushes continually

As if we expect decent journalism from them anymore
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 05, 2017, 03:43:01 PM
Yeah, it'll be the BBC that are dodgy and not our Iranian and Russian billionaire owners. I'm sure Usmanov's 6 years in prison, rape conviction, ordering of media censorship in favour of Putin, and links to organised crime are all just a big misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: sam of the south on November 05, 2017, 04:09:23 PM
Look at the the BBC's chief political commentator and the Tory bias she pushes continually

As if we expect decent journalism from them anymore

Kuntenburg.

Ugh 😠
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Tinga on November 05, 2017, 04:22:31 PM
Yeah, it'll be the BBC that are dodgy and not our Iranian and Russian billionaire owners. I'm sure Usmanov's 6 years in prison, rape conviction, ordering of media censorship in favour of Putin, and links to organised crime are all just a big misunderstanding.

....Why can't they just advertise chicken at half time?.  shakeyheadman
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Silas on November 05, 2017, 04:25:06 PM
Where kitchen dreams come true... This is my sole contribution to this thread
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 12:24:45 AM
I know no-one's watching this right now, but here's a live stream of info:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 12:28:32 AM
And the Everton bit:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41878954

Loads of info to read (after the game).

Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: dazfrancis on November 06, 2017, 12:38:26 AM
Would be the most Everton thing ever if we were investigated, found to have done wrong...and given a transfer ban
A transfer ban during the summer would have been great
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: dangermouse on November 06, 2017, 12:42:35 AM
My first thoughts on this while reading it is that someone at Everton doesn't like Moshiri and has been going off feeding information to the press

hopefully it's a load of shite

We certainly could do without this

Think there are a few anti BK folks revelling in this.....
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 12:48:17 AM
Reading what's in that article it doesn't look like there's much more to it than whether Moshiri's investment was via an Usmanov 'gift' or not, and even if it were a gift (which Moshiri is saying it wasn't) then it's Moshiri's to invest. A bit dodgy, but nothing illegal, and nothing we didn't already suspect.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Goaljira on November 06, 2017, 12:59:04 AM
Reading what's in that article it doesn't look like there's much more to it than whether Moshiri's investment was via an Usmanov 'gift' or not, and even if it were a gift (which Moshiri is saying it wasn't) then it's Moshiri's to invest. A bit dodgy, but nothing illegal, and nothing we didn't already suspect.

And its not like the sale of the shares in arsenal was the only money Moshiri had, so how do you prove that it was 'exactly' that money that bought Everton when its like 4% of Moshiri's net worth?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Lxxx on November 06, 2017, 01:13:49 AM
I'm pretty sure that if there was nothing even remotely dodgy, there wouldn't be a 2 part investigative show about it

I'm also sure if it was all a load of rumour and shite with no substance behind it Usmanov's legal team would have been all over the BBC like a rash and it wouldn't be seeing the light of day.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 01:23:38 AM
Yeah just watched it and itís not good, not sure how the club/owners/league sweep this away to be honest.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Robioto on November 06, 2017, 01:36:40 AM
For fuck sake...
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: sam of the south on November 06, 2017, 01:40:12 AM
Ah, so we might get fucked in the arse then.

Spiffing.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: kramer0 on November 06, 2017, 01:41:30 AM
Details?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 01:48:46 AM
Not sure what people are reacting to - there's nothing that breaks any rules. Questionable, yes; illegal, no.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 06, 2017, 01:50:11 AM
What is he being accused of spending a gift buying the club? It doesn't seem even dodgy unless they are intending of saying it's not actually a gift and he doesn't actually own us
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Lxxx on November 06, 2017, 01:52:02 AM
I don't understand why it's even made it to Panorama. It's really not that big a deal to anyone outside of football and even most people in it. Clearly Usmanov and his business colleagues have upset someone within the establishment who want to make a show of him. That's usually how the BBC work.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 01:53:58 AM
Ah, so we might get fucked in the arse then.

Spiffing.

Got to wonder where it leaves both clubs. Iíd say Arsenal are pretty isolated given heís got no power there but we look vunrable Iíd say to punishment or sanctions of some kind.

Even worse though Iíd say long term itís probably put the kibosh on Usmanov coming here formally.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 01:55:10 AM
Here's the Guardian take on the same papers, independent of Panorama.

Same conclusion: murky in places, but no rules broken.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/arsenal-everton-stakeholders-close-ties-leaked-files-alisher-usmanov-farhad-moshiri?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 01:55:37 AM
Got to wonder where it leaves both clubs. Iíd say Arsenal are pretty isolated given heís got no power there but we look vunrable Iíd say to punishment or sanctions of some kind.

Even worse though Iíd say long term itís probably put the kibosh on Usmanov coming here formally.
Have you even read the articles?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 01:56:15 AM
Have you even read the articles?

Just watched the programme.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 01:59:46 AM
Just watched the programme.
Read the Guardian article - it seems like a more factual take on the paper trail, with less of the sensationalising "what if"s and "may have"s of Panorama.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 02:05:36 AM
Read the Guardian article - it seems like a more factual take on the paper trail, with less of the sensationalising "what if"s and "may have"s of Panorama.

So it says thereís no link between the two?

Iím on my phone so difficult to read to be honest. But the evidence is pretty damming as the former FA chairman said and if like I said they want to punish somebody itís not likely to be Arsenal where heís got no power at all.

Hopefully they can brush it away somehow. Weíll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Lxxx on November 06, 2017, 02:12:47 AM
So it says thereís no link between the two?

Iím on my phone so difficult to read to be honest. But the evidence is pretty damming as the former FA chairman said and if like I said they want to punish somebody itís not likely to be Arsenal where heís got no power at all.

Hopefully they can brush it away somehow. Weíll have to wait and see.

Why would they punish anyone? No-one has done anything illegal. Lots of circumstantial evidence which a very expensive legal team will tear to shreds in any courtroom. Which it will never get to.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 02:17:28 AM
So it says thereís no link between the two?

Iím on my phone so difficult to read to be honest. But the evidence is pretty damming as the former FA chairman said and if like I said they want to punish somebody itís not likely to be Arsenal where heís got no power at all.

Hopefully they can brush it away somehow. Weíll have to wait and see.

Reading it my understanding is that no rules have been broken but that rules in future could be changed so that business partners cannot have stakes in two different premiership entries
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Trowel on November 06, 2017, 02:18:05 AM
A spokesman for Moshiri confirmed to the Guardian that Usmanovís Epion, a British Virgin Islands company, paid for the whole Arsenal stake. However, the spokesman said this did not show the whole picture of the relations between them, and Moshiri had paid Usmanov for his half-share of the initial Arsenal stake using money Moshiri had in his own separate investment company.

ďThis cash payment [for the Arsenal shares] was funded by a 2007 dividend that Mr Moshiri received from an investment company which was 100% beneficially owned by Mr Moshiri. All of this is meticulously laid out in contractual agreements between the two parties,Ē the spokesman said.

ďIt is clear that Mr Moshiriís participation in Red and White originated from his own funds and that Mr Moshiri is a person of very significant independent wealth, and this was already true in 2007.Ē

The Guardian has been shown a document in which Epion did acknowledge receiving payment from a company owned by Moshiri for his half of the Arsenal stake, in full.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Toddacelli on November 06, 2017, 02:37:55 AM
(https://m.popkey.co/e5ef9b/ygqVx.gif)
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: chang on November 06, 2017, 03:47:25 AM
Details?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41878954
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 06, 2017, 03:56:27 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41878954

Doesn't look good. Got Moshiri lying on camera there.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: gizzblue on November 06, 2017, 04:08:28 AM
I don't understand why it's even made it to Panorama. It's really not that big a deal to anyone outside of football and even most people in it. Clearly Usmanov and his business colleagues have upset someone within the establishment who want to make a show of him. That's usually how the BBC work.
It will be Kronkamp the twat .
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 06, 2017, 04:11:58 AM
I still don't understand why, if Usmanov had gifted the shares to Moshiri, they aren't classed as his?

I was gifted a share in Everton, which is now registered in my name, am I still allowed to say I'm a shareholder?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 06, 2017, 04:17:48 AM
I still don't understand why, if Usmanov had gifted the shares to Moshiri, they aren't classed as his?

I was gifted a share in Everton, which is now registered in my name, am I still allowed to say I'm a shareholder?

Because it's not a £20 birthday present. You can call a multi-million pound transfer a gift all you like, but the intent and subsequent behaviours are what matters in determining whether it should be treated as a gift for tax/other purposes.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 06, 2017, 04:23:49 AM
Because it's not a £20 birthday present. You can call a multi-million pound transfer a gift all you like, but the intent and subsequent behaviours are what matters in determining whether it should be treated as a gift for tax/other purposes.

so, let's say, for instance - because The Guardian has been shown a document which states that Moshiri actually paid for his own shares - that it was done as a bonus scheme.

"Well in Farhad, lad, you smashed the tax return again this year kid, you're getting a fat wedge in your pay packet next month kid"

"Sound that Alice (he calls Usmanov Alice because they're mates) but do me a favour, I can't be arsed going down to the HMRC in Bootle to explain this shit to them, so could you give it me as like, a gift instead?"

"A gift?"

"Yeah lad, like what the Ruskies gave you when the Commies got zapped or whatever happened, they gave you half of the Antartic or something didn't they?"

"Erm, yeah, shhh....ok, what would you like?"

"Oh, I dunno, maybe some shares in one of your companies?"

"D'ya like togger lad?"

"Yeah course man, Mikel Arteta is boss"

"Aye he is, but I'm buying Arsenal not Everton"

"Fuck sake"

"I know, I know.  Anyway, I'll give you 15% in Arsenal or something if that makes the tax thing easier?"

"Yeah, sound that lad.  Can we buy Arteta as well?  He's the best little Spaniard we know, y'know"

"We can make enquiries"

"Buzzin lar....get Arsene on the phone"


Then 8 years later Arteta fucks off to be a coach at City and Mosh gets bored, can't afford City, so goes back to his first love.  Everton.


But he owns shares in Arsenal so he flogs them, gets 20 L&B and 49.9% of Everton.


Not sure what's wrong there like
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 06, 2017, 04:26:16 AM
if you act all that out in Russian and Iranian accents it's proper funny, I promise.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 04:27:00 AM
if you act all that out in Russian and Iranian accents it's proper funny, I promise.

I was
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 06, 2017, 04:27:23 AM
That's good that.

Moot point though. Moshiris lawyers have come back and said it wasn't a gift as it was repaid. Which is odd because Moshiri in that interview says it wasn't a loan.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 06, 2017, 04:28:33 AM
That's good that.

Moot point though. Moshiris lawyers have come back and said it wasn't a gift as it was repaid. Which is odd because Moshiri in that interview says it wasn't a loan.

it was probably a case of "Yeah I'll get involved but my giro doesn't come through til Tuesday, I'm good for it though mate"

not really a loan, just a sub, if you will

like buying an ounce on tick
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Tinga on November 06, 2017, 04:32:18 AM
So are we fucked or not?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Goaljira on November 06, 2017, 04:34:38 AM
if you act all that out in Russian and Iranian accents it's proper funny, I promise.

Using the Toad and Penfold from Dangermouse works too.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkPUiJeCcAAUsKq.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/DM3_3.JPG/220px-DM3_3.JPG)
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 06, 2017, 04:37:26 AM
Using the Toad and Penfold from Dangermouse works too.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkPUiJeCcAAUsKq.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/DM3_3.JPG/220px-DM3_3.JPG)


they are the actors I would pick to do the screenplay with if I'm honest
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Jamokachi on November 06, 2017, 04:46:35 AM
So are we fucked or not?

nah
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: angus1878 on November 06, 2017, 04:58:31 AM
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 05:17:40 AM
Reading it my understanding is that no rules have been broken but that rules in future could be changed so that business partners cannot have stakes in two different premiership entries

Doesnt the rule say state you canít have more 10% of two clubs?

At least thatís what panorama said I thought.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 05:19:47 AM
Doesnt the rule say state you canít have more 10% of two clubs?

At least thatís what panorama said I thought.

Yeah
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 05:21:32 AM
Yeah

So heís got 30% shares in Arsenal and potential 49.9% shares in us and itís not a problem?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 05:23:48 AM
So heís got 30% shares in Arsenal and potential 49.9% shares in us and itís not a problem?

Who now?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 05:26:35 AM
Who now?

You really donít know that?

Come on you canít be serious here the whole threads about a him and us.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 05:28:34 AM
You really donít know that?

Come on you canít be serious here the whole threads about a him and us.

Fucking hell - over your head or what?

What's the whole debate about? Who owns what in Everton.  Thought more of you than that
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 05:30:05 AM
Fucking hell - over your head or what?

What's the whole debate about? Who owns what in Everton.  Thought more of you than that

So you donít think Usmanov is involved in Everton?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 05:36:34 AM
So you donít think Usmanov is involved in Everton?

No I don't. Not directly anyway. USM sponsoring us is the strange one though. I'm not sure what the technicalities are there.

Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 05:40:32 AM
No I don't. Not directly anyway. USM sponsoring us is the strange one though. I'm not sure what the technicalities are there.



Fucking hell! Panorama didnít even mention the USM Finch Farm links did they?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Brownie20 on November 06, 2017, 05:42:34 AM
Fucking hell! Panorama didnít even mention the USM Finch Farm links did they?

Havent watched it yet. Just read the article. I don't think there is a restriction on companies sponsoring other clubs that are owned by other club owners, but who knows?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Jamokachi on November 06, 2017, 05:44:23 AM
Why do you ( @Ross (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2316) ) seem desperate for this to be an issue? Ever since the takeover you've been full of digs and snide comments. What's your issue? It surely can't be Martinez, again?!
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 05:51:43 AM
Why do you ( @Ross (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2316) ) seem desperate for this to be an issue? Ever since the takeover you've been full of digs and snide comments. What's your issue? It surely can't be Martinez, again?!

Iíve said I hope it goes away. The sooner the better. Surely thought itís a bit concerning? Have you ever heard about this sort of thing before?

Quite what the fuck Martinez has to do with anything is beyond me as well.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Jamokachi on November 06, 2017, 06:06:03 AM
Iíve said I hope it goes away. The sooner the better. Surely thought itís a bit concerning? Have you ever heard about this sort of thing before?

Quite what the fuck Martinez has to do with anything is beyond me as well.

On the latter, that's when I noticed you got a real bee in your bonnet, and it seems to have been there ever since. Perhaps it was Moshiri's sacking of him the irked you, I don't know. But there are constant digs and jabs littered in numerous threads across the last 18 months or so.

It's not massively concerning to be honest. I thought the BBC's version of events to be rather inflammatory, with the piece in the Guardian being far more sensible. Have you read that yet?

The two are long standing business partners, there are always doing to be close links and murky waters. There's a hell of a lot of boardroom politics going on at Arsenal, and I think this is a move to push Usmanov out, after he'd once again rocked the boat with his public decloration of wanting to buy Korenke out.

My gut feeling is that this will impact Arsenal, if anyone.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Ross on November 06, 2017, 06:21:26 AM
On the latter, that's when I noticed you got a real bee in your bonnet, and it seems to have been there ever since. Perhaps it was Moshiri's sacking of him the irked you, I don't know. But there are constant digs and jabs littered in numerous threads across the last 18 months or so.

It's not massively concerning to be honest. I thought the BBC's version of events to be rather inflammatory, with the piece in the Guardian being far more sensible. Have you read that yet?

The two are long standing business partners, there are always doing to be close links and murky waters. There's a hell of a lot of boardroom politics going on at Arsenal, and I think this is a move to push Usmanov out, after he'd once again rocked the boat with his public decloration of wanting to buy Korenke out.

My gut feeling is that this will impact Arsenal, if anyone.

You know Martinez hasnít been involved in anything Everton related for almost 2 years and this is maybe the first time Iíve mentioned him for sometime donít you? 

As for the ownership situation it seems my concerns may unfortunately be true, sadly.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 06, 2017, 06:46:07 AM
Could we get docked point or get a transfer ban? Any similar cases in recent years?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Confucius on November 06, 2017, 10:12:09 AM
I still don't understand why, if Usmanov had gifted the shares to Moshiri, they aren't classed as his?

I was gifted a share in Everton, which is now registered in my name, am I still allowed to say I'm a shareholder?


Someone delete this post quick. So and Moshiri going to be bunk mates.

But yeah, why is it wrong to sell a gift you were given to then buy something else you want. It's not like anybody ever returned a Christmas gift to buy something they really wanted.

If it is against the rules it explains why only 49.9 percent shares were bought and not full outright ownership.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: bluenuck on November 06, 2017, 10:18:16 AM
I swear this was all put together by the big 5-6 teams who don't want anyone else to crash their party.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Confucius on November 06, 2017, 10:31:46 AM

Just watched this. If all that was being said was true, the only problem is Bridgewaters. That part looks well shady.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Bluedylan on November 06, 2017, 11:56:39 AM
You know Martinez hasnít been involved in anything Everton related for almost 2 years and this is maybe the first time Iíve mentioned him for sometime donít you? 

As for the ownership situation it seems my concerns may unfortunately be true, sadly.

You do seem desperate for Moshiri's involvement to go tits up though, and you don't make much effort to hide it. It is a bit weird.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 06, 2017, 01:31:38 PM
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/10de/th/pre/f/2010/299/3/f/storm_in_a_teacup_by_kritter5x-d31kwvp.jpg)
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on November 06, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
If its proven that no blame or wrongdoing can be apportioned to Everton Football Club, then I reckon we take BBC to the cleaners. How often do they make people/corporations out to be complete cunts - and get it wrong. Yes, they and others oust a lot of wrongdoers, but how much shit do they kick up for assumed innocents in the name of "entertainment". The BBC thinks its the IMF or United Nations sometimes, someone should take THEM to the cleaners one day, the arrogant tossers, if this is bullshit. Of course, if it is not, then we will (and we should) get our wrists slapped, but if its just the usual shit flinging, then the BBC will just walk away smiling, with a few million viewing figures. Would love to see us turn it around and fuck them over for a change.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Bluedylan on November 06, 2017, 04:30:50 PM
To be honest, taking my Everton allegiances out of it for a second, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to investigate this. I don't think we should get too defensive either. That's the way Liverpool fans react whenever their club is accused of anything, and they defend all manner of bad behaviour. Don't think we should be like that.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 06, 2017, 07:04:16 PM
Some dodgy shit goes on, cant recall the figures, but around 60% of the tax free havens are under British control, out of those around 75% of the world economy runs through them... siphoning off cash that could be used for tax in many many countries..

on the Everton issue,, I dont think much will happen, if anything hope it helps get Usmanov to Everton faster.. lol
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on November 06, 2017, 09:43:41 PM
The way Arsenal are going, I dont think it will be that long before he royally sees his arse.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Simon Paul on November 06, 2017, 11:56:00 PM
this is all because the BBC think we're going to sell Steve Simonsen to Arsenal for £60m?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: ynotd on November 07, 2017, 12:11:35 AM
To be honest, taking my Everton allegiances out of it for a second, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to investigate this. I don't think we should get too defensive either. That's the way Liverpool fans react whenever their club is accused of anything, and they defend all manner of bad behaviour. Don't think we should be like that.

Not one thread can go by without some nugget having to mention them its embarrassing how much Evertonians go on about them

Some of us would go on fucking mastermind and have them as their specialist subject
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: GoodisonPk on November 07, 2017, 12:12:47 AM
This could be work out even more in out favour. Usmanov leaves Arsenal and takes full control at us.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Macca77 on November 07, 2017, 12:14:57 AM
Not one thread can go by without some nugget having to mention them its embarrassing how much Evertonians go on about them

Some of us would go on fucking mastermind and have them as their specialist subject

Nah it's no where near as embarrassing as reds coming on here pretending to be blues, that's really embarrassing and incredibly sad
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: ynotd on November 07, 2017, 12:20:53 AM
Nah it's no where near as embarrassing as reds coming on here pretending to be blues, that's really embarrassing and incredibly sad

Sounding like a proper pleb now macca making the kopite shout no I'm not a kopite I'd rather spend christmas with you ye 1 dimensional boring cunt

Not that I have to prove myself to a stream wanker like you anyway
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 07, 2017, 12:24:28 AM
Sounding like a proper pleb now macca making the kopite shout no I'm not a kopite I'd rather spend christmas with you ye 1 dimensional boring cunt

Not that I have to prove myself to a stream wanker like you anyway
Fighting talk
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 07, 2017, 12:28:02 AM
Sounding like a proper pleb now macca making the kopite shout no I'm not a kopite I'd rather spend christmas with you ye 1 dimensional boring cunt

Not that I have to prove myself to a stream wanker like you anyway
I smell a kopite
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Bluedylan on November 07, 2017, 12:28:57 AM
Not one thread can go by without some nugget having to mention them its embarrassing how much Evertonians go on about them

Some of us would go on fucking mastermind and have them as their specialist subject

It was as a point of comparison, you complete moron. Have a day off from being a massive bellend.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Martip on November 07, 2017, 12:30:10 AM
Getting a bit naughty in here !
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Macca77 on November 07, 2017, 12:47:23 AM
Sounding like a proper pleb now macca making the kopite shout no I'm not a kopite I'd rather spend christmas with you ye 1 dimensional boring cunt

Not that I have to prove myself to a stream wanker like you anyway

You've hurt my feelings now
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 07, 2017, 01:01:41 AM
So the real question is how much of Everton does the Queen and Mrs Brown own?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: cantoffee on November 07, 2017, 01:44:28 AM
Stream wanker - good stuff
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Macca77 on November 07, 2017, 01:46:43 AM
Stream wanker - good stuff

Struggling to work out what it means
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 07, 2017, 01:48:08 AM
Migs in silence of the lambs?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Goaljira on November 07, 2017, 01:51:13 AM
Struggling to work out what it means

Well duh, it obviously means you drive out to the countryside to find a minor waterway to stand in whilst pleasuring yourself whilst looking at the flora and fauna.
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Macca77 on November 07, 2017, 01:53:49 AM
Well duh, it obviously means you drive out to the countryside to find a minor waterway to stand in whilst pleasuring yourself whilst looking at the flora and fauna.

Doesn't everyone?
Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: angus1878 on November 07, 2017, 03:11:51 AM
glad the BBC never mentioned their little entertainment "puppet" GARY BARLOW...or their very own little CHILDREN IN NEED investment funds.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793340/why-children-need-sitting-90million-fortune-charity-stashes-sum-away-investment-portfolio-instead-handing-out.html


Title: Re: Panorama
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 07, 2017, 03:56:06 AM
glad the BBC never mentioned their little entertainment "puppet" GARY BARLOW...or their very own little CHILDREN IN NEED investment funds.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793340/why-children-need-sitting-90million-fortune-charity-stashes-sum-away-investment-portfolio-instead-handing-out.html

Yeah but that daily mail article is from over 3 years ago so has very little to do with the current leak of financial information