Post by: Everton News on November 14, 2017, 02:30:02 AM
Everton have reportedly had an approach to speak to Watford boss Marco Silva rebuffed by the nearly-in-London side.
Source: Watford deny Everton a Silva lining (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2017/11/watford-deny-everton-silva-lining/)
Post by: Confucius on November 14, 2017, 02:32:34 AM
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on November 14, 2017, 02:47:28 AM
Post by: Simon Paul on November 14, 2017, 03:15:03 AM
Been thinking about that headline all week haven't you Newsbot?
been a long time coming!
Post by: everton1952 on November 14, 2017, 04:06:26 AM
Post by: burkey17 on November 14, 2017, 04:15:12 AM
Speak to agent- Silva is interested/deal agreed
Speak to Watford about availability/compo
Watford know he'll go but have to save face/ get best compo
Moshiri gets his target because that what he does. Except we are left without any CF, LB, CH blah blah!
Post by: blueski on November 14, 2017, 04:46:25 AM
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 14, 2017, 04:53:56 AM
Post by: Ross on November 14, 2017, 05:11:36 AM
Post by: Gash on November 14, 2017, 05:28:31 AM
Post by: hill135 on November 14, 2017, 05:42:51 AM
Post by: Bigstickytoffee on November 14, 2017, 05:44:20 AM
Post by: kramer0 on November 14, 2017, 05:50:45 AM
Someone needs to get Bill and Farhad a BT sports subscription. There's football outside the Prem, yano.
Yep. Most of the top managers/players in the league came from abroad.
Eagerly awaiting the day when the club realizes that the PL is a bad market to shop in. Players/managers from abroad, or even from the lower leagues, are more likely to provide value than ones who are PL proven. "Proven" has gotten us nothing recently.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 06:08:41 AM
Someone needs to get Bill and Farhad a BT sports subscription. There's football outside the Prem, yano.
Which is where Silva has had success.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 06:09:23 AM
Yep. Most of the top managers/players in the league came from abroad.
Eagerly awaiting the day when the club realizes that the PL is a bad market to shop in. Players/managers from abroad, or even from the lower leagues, are more likely to provide value than ones who are PL proven. "Proven" has gotten us nothing recently.
Getting pretty tired of your moaning man, it's the same thing over and over and over. We get it.
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 07:02:44 AM
Which is where Silva has had success.But he’s had zero success in the prem thus far.
There doesn’t seem to be much available right now. Once again timing sucks.
Just imagine if we’d had this investment 10 years ago when we had the core of a good side. Now we have money neither quality players or managers are available.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 08:07:36 AM
But he’s had zero success in the prem thus far.
Both Hull and Watford saw/have seen improvement under his stewardship.
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 08:34:22 AM
Post by: Shogun on November 14, 2017, 08:48:38 AM
If you're not arsed about trophies or hitting the next level and just want to see Everton win at Goodison a good few times a season with the odd win over a big side then fine, go ahead and get your Allardyces and Dyche characters because that's their ceiling.
If you want an Everton that can do the above then you need to look at innovative managers. You need to look at managers who bring something different to the rest. You need to take a risk on a Marco Silva type of character because if he is the real deal, then it'll be too late if we don't act now.
Post by: Shogun on November 14, 2017, 08:55:48 AM
That’s hardly success. Plus Hull went down.
Very black and white approach.
If the league table started from when he took over then they'd have finished 14th and that was with selling their best player at the time in Snodgrass and having the weakest squad in the league for numbers.
I'm not sure why people are calling him flavour of the month, that's ironically Sean Dyche who has done nothing of interest prior to the start of this season.
Post by: Ridge on November 14, 2017, 09:51:59 AM
He's called mini Mourinho because he did his football badges at the same place. Since Mourinho did his badges at Largs in Scotland, multiple aspiring Portuguese coaches have gone there and had impressive results when taking reigns in Portuguese football. For many in Portugal, these managers are seen as 'one of the bottle' to borrow a Mourinho phrase, but as if they have come off a production line. But it's also a bit of a back handed compliment, in that they've all tended to achieve more than those who have done badges in Portugal or elsewhere.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 10:43:12 AM
That’s hardly success. Plus Hull went down.
I thought he did very well in nearly saving Hull, their home form was excellent. The damage was well and truly done before he got there.
As for Watford, they're looking decent, and you can't really point a lack of achievement at him when he's only had 11 league games.
this is a man who's burgeoning reputation is base on success he's had abroad. That shouldn't be dismissed because of the tough tasks he's been handed in the PL.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 12:38:48 PM
I guess it depends what you want out of Everton.Mourinho says ‘hi’
If you're not arsed about trophies or hitting the next level and just want to see Everton win at Goodison a good few times a season with the odd win over a big side then fine, go ahead and get your Allardyces and Dyche characters because that's their ceiling.
If you want an Everton that can do the above then you need to look at innovative managers. You need to look at managers who bring something different to the rest. You need to take a risk on a Marco Silva type of character because if he is the real deal, then it'll be too late if we don't act now.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 12:42:40 PM
Has only been in the PL 10 months, 2 clubs and I rate him highly, but relegation by 6 points at Hull showed that the magic wore off. And while he was able to build a team at Watford this summer and has had a great start, would inheriting a team in trouble again, be a great idea, given the Hull scenario? We don't know if Watford are going to maintain the start they've made.Mourinho is a pragmatist, Silva isn’t, that’s what worries me.
He's called mini Mourinho because he did his football badges at the same place. Since Mourinho did his badges at Largs in Scotland, multiple aspiring Portuguese coaches have gone there and had impressive results when taking reigns in Portuguese football. For many in Portugal, these managers are seen as 'one of the bottle' to borrow a Mourinho phrase, but as if they have come off a production line. But it's also a bit of a back handed compliment, in that they've all tended to achieve more than those who have done badges in Portugal or elsewhere.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 12:48:42 PM
I guess it depends what you want out of Everton.If you listen to Dyche in his interviews, he does send his teams out to win every game. He never used excuses about resources or injuries.
If you're not arsed about trophies or hitting the next level and just want to see Everton win at Goodison a good few times a season with the odd win over a big side then fine, go ahead and get your Allardyces and Dyche characters because that's their ceiling.
If you want an Everton that can do the above then you need to look at innovative managers. You need to look at managers who bring something different to the rest. You need to take a risk on a Marco Silva type of character because if he is the real deal, then it'll be too late if we don't act now.
The way Burnley scored a beautiful goal then held us at arm’s length for the rest of the game (IMO) shows he’s a better candidate than Silva, who’s teams have capitulated on their showings at Goodison.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 14, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Mourinho is a pragmatist, Silva isn’t, that’s what worries me.
Then again, you sound permenantly worried about something.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 01:38:03 PM
Then again, you sound permenantly worried about something.***insert prophetic wisdom here***
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 01:49:06 PM
Very black and white approach.I have no desire for Sean Dyche either.
If the league table started from when he took over then they'd have finished 14th and that was with selling their best player at the time in Snodgrass and having the weakest squad in the league for numbers.
I'm not sure why people are calling him flavour of the month, that's ironically Sean Dyche who has done nothing of interest prior to the start of this season.
But you can’t say if this or that you can only go on facts. Hull went down and we’re way off the mark when they did. I’m concerned he is another Martinez. It’s a big risk.
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 01:53:42 PM
I thought he did very well in nearly saving Hull, their home form was excellent. The damage was well and truly done before he got there.6 points off safety wasn't it? He had half a season to turn it around and am not saying he was against it with that side but we recently had a manager who did a similar thing.
As for Watford, they're looking decent, and you can't really point a lack of achievement at him when he's only had 11 league games.
this is a man who's burgeoning reputation is base on success he's had abroad. That shouldn't be dismissed because of the tough tasks he's been handed in the PL.
As for wat ford they started pretty well last season too (or was it the season before?) and still ended up mid to low table.
He may well do well with us but there's nothing to say he will be a success with us.
In fact I would argue Koeman has been more successful than Silva and look how that turned out.
The choice of manager linked with us right now is very underwhelming.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 01:56:23 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 14, 2017, 02:26:17 PM
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 02:30:56 PM
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 02:34:16 PM
6 points off safety wasn't it? He had half a season to turn it around and am not saying he was against it with that side but we recently had a manager who did a similar thing.
As for wat ford they started pretty well last season too (or was it the season before?) and still ended up mid to low table.
He may well do well with us but there's nothing to say he will be a success with us.
In fact I would argue Koeman has been more successful than Silva and look how that turned out.
The choice of manager linked with us right now is very underwhelming.
Are you deliberately ignoring his record before the PL?
Post by: Macca77 on November 14, 2017, 02:39:42 PM
The way he buttons his jacket looks shit too.
Don't get me started on that
Post by: Bluedylan on November 14, 2017, 03:05:37 PM
Can someone tell me how Silva plays his brand of pressure absorbing, quick, counter-attacking football with this squad?
I would imagine initially he would be more pragmatic and work with what he's got. Maybe select a few of the younger, fitter players and then try to utilise the pressing, aggressive qualities of players like Sigurdsson and Klaassen.
Then get a few players in during January.
Post by: bluenose27 on November 14, 2017, 03:11:27 PM
Need to appoint a steady eddy manager until somebody more appropriate comes along.
Think everyone has got carried away since we beat Watford in a game we should never have won! The same problems we have had all season are still there and the first job is to stop us conceding silly goals and get enough points to stay up. Marco Siva is NOT the right choice to do that!
2 defeats or even a draw and 1 defeat in the 2 away games coming up and we are right back in trouble again and when did we last win away?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 03:19:27 PM
Post by: Jamokachi on November 14, 2017, 03:22:41 PM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 03:26:57 PM
Usually, when an official approach is made these things only pan out one way. I'd expect Silva to be our new manager by the end of the week.Agreed. Salary etc. all sorted with Silva, just trying to persuade Watford to let go...thing is, as there is no compensation clause they could ask for something stupid like £20m to warn us off.
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
Are you deliberately ignoring his record before the PL?Do you mean the record not as good as Koemans? A second division title, a Portuguese cup and winning the title in the mighty Greek league?
Stirring stuff.
Not to mention the nomadic movement of club to club. He comes to us he’s averaging a change of club every season. Doesn’t really instill a lot of confidence and stability, does it?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 14, 2017, 03:55:27 PM
Post by: everton1952 on November 14, 2017, 04:28:10 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 14, 2017, 04:31:56 PM
Agreed. Salary etc. all sorted with Silva, just trying to persuade Watford to let go...thing is, as there is no compensation clause they could ask for something stupid like £20m to warn us off.
If im being honest I wouldnt think 20 million is unreasonable, if Moshiri believes he is the right person to take us forward. We pay 30, 40, 50 million for players yet expect to get the most important person at the club for peanuts. Clearly id rather get him for 4 or 5 million, but this is part of the game ive never really understood.
Post by: Sixx1402 on November 14, 2017, 04:39:09 PM
https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/football/premier-league/marco-silva-is-the-tactical-mind-that-everton-needs-right-now-and-their-supporter-should-be-very-excited-1.967486?sref=afid&afid=125272.76202X1528716X539541485e739300f99f1a4539b95048.21798
Post by: Lxxx on November 14, 2017, 04:42:54 PM
The way he buttons his jacket looks shit too.
He always looks like he's just got in from a heavy night at the casino.
Post by: Brownie on November 14, 2017, 04:46:06 PM
Pretty good tactical analysis on Silva here:
https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/football/premier-league/marco-silva-is-the-tactical-mind-that-everton-needs-right-now-and-their-supporter-should-be-very-excited-1.967486?sref=afid&afid=125272.76202X1528716X539541485e739300f99f1a4539b95048.21798
Sold - but then I'm easily swayed
Post by: Escla on November 14, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
It has been said often enough that only fans are loyal; most players and managers are not. But if this fella bombs out of Watford after 11 games, what does that say about him? Imagine what would have been said on here if Koeman had left after 11 games? I really hope he does not come for that reason apart from all what has been already said. Of course if we are landed with him, and results show little improvement then we will probably see him gone by next May. On the other hand he might be better than we think and might jack us up the table. Given a choice between the two, it is Dyche for me. Niasse will be pleased though. Which Watford players do you fancy? Cleverly?
You can't blame him for not wanting to go down with Hull, he was brought in too late and the damage was already done but he did a decent turnaround, just wasn't enough. So he went to Watford who only ever give 12 month contracts, if a bigger Prem club offers him three years then he should grab it. I think it would be a good move, we are in no position to chase the Ancellotand Tuchels of this world.
Post by: Sixx1402 on November 14, 2017, 04:53:10 PM
Sold - but then I'm easily swayed
Me too but I guess some of my Hull City supporting friends from back home who thought he was top class may also have something to do with it
Post by: Macca77 on November 14, 2017, 05:08:16 PM
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 05:41:01 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 14, 2017, 05:45:25 PM
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 06:14:45 PM
On the surface, it appears to be a similar appointment to that of the standard of Martinez.
Perhaps that's the standard we're truly at I guess.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 14, 2017, 06:50:28 PM
In blue......obviously....
Post by: MrWhite on November 14, 2017, 06:51:46 PM
Somewhere on a Watford forum MazzarrisleftTeste is constantly posting that he's bang average. :)
http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/is-marco-silva-all-that.53630/
Post by: Bluenose 91 on November 14, 2017, 06:52:10 PM
Martinez comparisons are incredibly lazy.
Been guilty of this myself tbh but I'm coming round to the idea of getting him in now.
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 14, 2017, 06:54:05 PM
Martinez comparisons are incredibly lazy.
Spanish/Portuguese. Close enough.
Post by: Macca77 on November 14, 2017, 06:56:01 PM
Martinez comparisons are incredibly lazy.
Exactly, Marco wouldn't be seen dead in brown shoes
Post by: Bluedylan on November 14, 2017, 06:57:22 PM
Sorry, some of us don't have as much time to go into it as deeply as you.
On the surface, it appears to be a similar appointment to that of the standard of Martinez.
Perhaps that's the standard we're truly at I guess.
Not gone into it deeply. You're forever posting on here, so I'm sure you could spare 5 minutes on Wikipedia me old mucker. Seems like the least people can do if they're giving opinions against the man, with such certainty.
Post by: MrWhite on November 14, 2017, 06:59:16 PM
Sorry, some of us don't have as much time to go into it as deeply as you.
On the surface, it appears to be a similar appointment to that of the standard of Martinez.
Perhaps that's the standard we're truly at I guess.
I would agree, but only in that he's an unknown at our level and resources. Martinez was a gamble, which we lost. While there is a risk of that being the case for Silva, it's also possible it could go the other way.
Unfortunately, without the clout to pick and choose from the world's proven best, the only way we can hope to get a top manager is by taking a punt. In that respect, Silva seems as good a bet as most.
Plus I've never heard him say phenomenal.
Post by: blargins on November 14, 2017, 07:06:16 PM
Not gone into it deeply. You're forever posting on here, so I'm sure you could spare 5 minutes on Wikipedia me old mucker. Seems like the least people can do if they're giving opinions against the man, with such certainty.
Funny, I did look on Wiki. Nothing exciting to see there at all. Just didn't go beyond that.
And yes, I'm on here a lot, but my job is 100% internet based.
Post by: Lxxx on November 14, 2017, 07:20:29 PM
Post by: Trowel on November 14, 2017, 07:25:47 PM
Post by: MrWhite on November 14, 2017, 07:31:18 PM
Martinez comparisons are incredibly lazy.
Don't knock extreme laziness. It's an art form that takes a phenomenal amount of time and effort to perfect.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 14, 2017, 07:45:34 PM
MUCH better than the 2016 elections, mind...
Post by: boothill on November 14, 2017, 08:47:57 PM
Funny, I did look on Wiki. Nothing exciting to see there at all. Just didn't go beyond that.Do you post porn all day blarg ? Jammy get you
And yes, I'm on here a lot, but my job is 100% internet based.
Post by: AllyBlue14 on November 14, 2017, 10:00:40 PM
Silva seems to have had some success in other leagues previously, but it's as good as irrelevant when you come to the PL. There are plenty of good managers who have come here and failed because they can't adapt to the league - as there are players.
Martinez had won the FA Cup and despite seeing Wigan relegated, it was seen as a miracle he kept them up for so long. When he joined us, his first season was phen....great, but he took over a very good squad and made some very good late acquisitions. After that, he turned it to shit.
Silva took a struggling Hull down but was commended because it was almost nailed on (despite being only 2 points from safety when he took over, I think I read before) and they had fought more than people expected. He's made a good start with Watford but they have been a bit flimsy at times this season already.
I don't think you have to analyse many stats to see that Silva would be closer to Martinez in approach than the more pragmatic Allardyce and Dyche. But I think the similarity is more in the 'flavour of the month' kind of appointment, when there isn't much to back it up, rather than saying they're both young, Iberian managers who don't park 10 men behind the ball.
Post by: everton1952 on November 14, 2017, 10:02:37 PM
Post by: kramer0 on November 14, 2017, 10:39:05 PM
http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/02/16/tactical-philosophy-marco-silva/ (http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/02/16/tactical-philosophy-marco-silva/)
I see a lot of positives:
- It seems like his primary focus is to improve his players' understanding of the game in training, giving them a lot of freedom to make decisions on their own during matches. That's music to my ears.
- The work he's done with a poor Hull squad and a pretty average Watford squad suggests that he's adaptable (which makes sense based on the previous). So he can probably work with the poorly constructed mess we have.
- He cares about defensive organization. I like the 4-1-4-1 defensive configuration for the players we have. And I like the stuff about positioning players meticulously in training. We have quite a few players on our books who would improve massively if they learned proper defensive positioning.
- He knows how to coach a counter-attack. In the past three plus seasons, our best football has come on the break, so that seems sensible (although counter-attacking monster Romelu Lukaku probably had a fair bit to do with that). Vlasic, Lookman, Sandro, Niasse, and Calvert-Lewin have their flaws but there's enough pace and skill in that group to fashion a decent counter. And if Barkley comes back and can be convinced to sign a new deal... he's always had the potential to destroy teams on the break.
Question Marks:
- Is there any strategy for playing against fixed defenses? Olympiacos are the best team in Greece and his approach was to counter. So we might find ourselves in trouble against super-organized low blocks.
- His defensive record at Watford and Hull isn't that impressive (whether you look at goals conceded or, if you're into football analytics, expected goals conceded) so who knows how much the alleged focus on defensive organization really counts. Player quality makes either measure a bit noisy, though.
- I don't know how he is with academy players. Not that this is 100% essential but we have a lot of promising players coming through (Davies, Baningime, Kenny, Dowell, Walsh, etc.) and it would be nice to have someone in charge who can work with them.
- I don't know how he is in terms of fitness. Koeman was generally underwhelming but he got a lot of mileage out of keeping us fit and winning points late in games. The same was true for Moyes (the fitness part). One of the things I hated most about Martinez was that we ran out of steam after 60 minutes way too often, which wasted a lot of good work we did in the first halves of matches. I'm not sure I could handle that again, in the event that that's what Silva is like. With all of that said, his fitness training is probably fine.
There's a lot to like but there's no way he's worth that much (the rumoured compensation or likely salary, i.e. what Koeman was on). Kind of like the Gylfi Sigurdsson of managers. Although, in Silva's case, he actually fills an area of genuine need, so I think it's a little more justified if he's who we really want.
So... mixed feelings about this. I don't hate it but I'm not totally sold either. Although, to be fair, in our current position, I don't think we're capable of finding someone who ticks all the boxes.
Post by: Lxxx on November 15, 2017, 02:23:14 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 02:29:53 AM
either does anyone else really
Oumar Niasse might :)
Post by: blargins on November 15, 2017, 02:35:17 AM
But I don’t think he is right for the club either.
Post by: Brownie on November 15, 2017, 02:37:00 AM
Post by: TheRam on November 15, 2017, 02:40:08 AM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 15, 2017, 02:50:44 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 15, 2017, 03:04:47 AM
Post by: Waltzer on November 15, 2017, 03:52:28 AM
Wrd and another poster on tef pretty much saying it's a matter of time or more importantly once we offer the correct amount he will be hereI'm still a little confused as to why it's taken roughly 3 weeks? If Moshiri is willing to blow 8 million+ on him you'd think he's pretty high on his hit list so why the delay in approaching. Personally id rather say to Tuchel that we'd give him an 8 million signing on fee and basic wage of 6 mill per year like Koeman was on than give Watford it for Silva, but I'll just be glad to get something sorted.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 04:57:01 AM
I'm still a little confused as to why it's taken roughly 3 weeks? If Moshiri is willing to blow 8 million+ on him you'd think he's pretty high on his hit list so why the delay in approaching. Personally id rather say to Tuchel that we'd give him an 8 million signing on fee and basic wage of 6 mill per year like Koeman was on than give Watford it for Silva, but I'll just be glad to get something sorted.
Perhaps we tried with Tuchel, perhaps he was the number one target, but didn't fancy it. He's being lined up as Conte's replacement by all accounts.
Then there's the Simeone situation. Perhaps we were given an indication there was a possibility of getting him in the summer. But that would mean a stop-gap. Unsworth is a big risk and the other options aren't particularly encouraging, and fan reaction has probably been noted.
Then there are other candidates worth analysing and evaluating, Dyche and Silva, as well as others I'm sure.
We weren't expecting to sack Koeman after 9 games, so it's understandable to a degree that there wasn't a ready made shortlist of potential candidates in waiting. There is no crazy rush at this stage of the season, better to take time and evaluate the options.
I don't buy the scatter-gun approach. I think we'll have looked at various candidates, who happen to have differing styles of football. It's not the chairman/owner that decides the on pitch culture or style of play, and we should be thankful of that. There are plenty who do, and the shit storm that can cause is not something I want to see at Everton (Palace chairman dictating team selection springs to mind).
As for Silva, he is one of the most highly rated young managers in Europe. He had great records at the clubs he was at prior to Hull, and even there he nearly managed to save a sinking ship that was near the bottom of the ocean. A club that barely had a starting 11 at the start of that season due to the owner playing silly buggers. As @Bluedylan (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3747) said, the form they showed would have had them finishing 14th. It's ifs and maybes of course, but it can't be denied that he oversaw an upturn in performances.
@blargins (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=54) The comparisons to Martinez are lazy, and seem to be based on three things, young, foreign and relegated with a previous club. Martinez, though he won a cup, oversaw a gradual decline in his sides (in terms of league placings), with a major weakness being his team's lack of defensive ability, lack of intensity and lack of fitness. Silva has overseen teams that have improved their league performances, wining titles and a cup as well as playing attractive, progressive football. These "flavour of the month" shouts are very disrespectful given Silva's record, and smack of a lack of acknowledgement of football outside of the PL. I saw someone on here say "many managers come here and fail". Well a damn site more come to the PL and succeed than British managers going abroad and succeeding!
We aren't a club that can go and get the top, top managers. We have to look at the those that have the potential to be great. Mauricio Pochettino is just that at Spurs, and they (as Southanmpton did) are reaping the benefits. This is far more an exciting option than the perceived "safety" of Allardyce et all, and has the potential to be a far greater long term relationship. I'd be very happy to see it happen. And as I said before, when it gets to a point where an official request has been made, it usually goes one way from there. We're a massive club in comparison to Watford, of course Silva will be interested.
Post by: brap2 on November 15, 2017, 05:51:46 AM
Post by: Tony Clifton on November 15, 2017, 05:57:17 AM
Post by: AllyBlue14 on November 15, 2017, 05:59:43 AM
Good results at Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos, but nothing extraordinary considering their standing in their respective leagues. Hull and Watford, again, nothing earth-shattering.
That's not disrespecting his achievements, there haven't been any embarrassments and he's done pretty well overall. But he hasn't really stuck around anywhere, even less than Mourinho in fact, which is why I'd consider him a flavour of the month - his stock is definitely high after Hull and getting Watford to 9th. And I think you can say the PL is a different prospect to other leagues without it being disrespectful.
Post by: blargins on November 15, 2017, 06:58:55 AM
We will see. I'm skeptical if this is who we end up with. Especially the big numbers involved. We seem to be getting screwed paying over the odds for failures lately.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 07:14:27 AM
I'd say he's achieved what would have been expected prior to his appointments, with the exception of Estoril where he seemed to get them overachieving.
Good results at Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos, but nothing extraordinary considering their standing in their respective leagues. Hull and Watford, again, nothing earth-shattering.
That's not disrespecting his achievements, there haven't been any embarrassments and he's done pretty well overall. But he hasn't really stuck around anywhere, even less than Mourinho in fact, which is why I'd consider him a flavour of the month - his stock is definitely high after Hull and getting Watford to 9th. And I think you can say the PL is a different prospect to other leagues without it being disrespectful.
He still achieved it though. Plenty of managers fail the minimum expectations, and he didn't. He also shone during those achievements.
The disrespecting is when compared to Martinez's achievements. He has done more, and so it should be acknowledged.
The "sticking around" could be seen as a bit of a worry, or it could be viewed as a quick road to the top. Maybe he needs to find a club that match his ambitions?
Post by: Ridge on November 15, 2017, 07:48:25 AM
He got Hull playing decent football, but after a bright start they went down by 34 points, 6 adrift. There have been managers who have taken on harder jobs and succeeded. He's had a good start at Watford, but we beat them and we've been shit for months.
After Europa fixtures, we'll just have league and we have a very big squad, so I expect some of the youngsters to go back to under 23s with Unsworth, and we'll struggle, like we did before.
The only slight sign of the team we have is the younger players, and the club have shown no real support and not much respect to the manager who developed them. Silva will inherit a deflated team with no coordination. It's a team of mercenaries and strangers, many have already major problems settling.
Personally I think we'd be right back in the shit and I doubt he'll last 6 months here either. But I absolutely do see him coming now, if we were going to appoint Unsworth it would have been done. I think we'll be in for a relegation battle.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 07:50:25 AM
His achievements are not as high as Koemans
Koeman hasn't won anything in nearly 10 years though...
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 07:51:55 AM
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 15, 2017, 10:09:49 AM
Watford deny Everton a Silva lining
Everton have reportedly had an approach to speak to Watford boss Marco Silva rebuffed by the nearly-in-London side.
Source: Watford deny Everton a Silva lining (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2017/11/watford-deny-everton-silva-lining/)
Hi-Ho....
Post by: Confucius on November 15, 2017, 12:03:27 PM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 15, 2017, 01:00:12 PM
Sick of the negativity on here at the moment....because we were promised ‘Nothing will ever be the same’. And we’re shit.
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 15, 2017, 01:11:41 PM
Sick of the negativity on here at the moment.
What do you expect?
Post by: Lxxx on November 15, 2017, 01:27:27 PM
Sick of the negativity on here at the moment.
To be fair there’s not a great deal to be positive about at the moment. A very lucky 3 points last game up seems to have people papering over some very large cracks on the field, to say nothing of the general malaise around the club.
We’d all like to think things will improve with a new boss but until we appoint one I think it’s prudent to wait and see, bearing in mind the way this season has gone so far.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 02:32:21 PM
What do you expect?
For people to cheer the fuck up.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 15, 2017, 02:38:04 PM
To be fair there’s not a great deal to be positive about at the moment. A very lucky 3 points last game up seems to have people papering over some very large cracks on the field, to say nothing of the general malaise around the club.
We’d all like to think things will improve with a new boss but until we appoint one I think it’s prudent to wait and see, bearing in mind the way this season has gone so far.
The attitude on here, and everywhere, goes beyond being "prudent". People are jumping all over the negatives, and not looking for positives. Happy to roll around in their own shit it seems.
It's not everyone, I accept, it's just a vocal core group. I obviously realise the irony in moaning about this.
I've had enough of it, I'm going on a positivity spree. Fuck you all, with rainbows.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/64692707/fuck-you-all.jpg)
Post by: blargins on November 15, 2017, 06:01:46 PM
Post by: Tinga on November 15, 2017, 07:38:04 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 15, 2017, 07:44:53 PM
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 15, 2017, 08:01:32 PM
Also heard Watford are actually 1 point worse off this season than last season after the same amount of games, based on that, maybe we should be going for Mazzarri.
Post by: blargins on November 15, 2017, 08:06:33 PM
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/everton-majority-shareholder-farhad-moshiri-intensify-efforts-prise-marco-silva-watford-1647423
"Moshiri is seemingly intent on recruiting a stellar name to take over from Koeman..."
If he's after a stellar name, how does Silva come into it?
Post by: Bluedylan on November 15, 2017, 08:12:53 PM
Back on topic, Watford could just say 'no' here, regardless of money. They do have that option and we'd have to swallow it.
Post by: Brownie on November 15, 2017, 08:13:59 PM
"Moshiri is seemingly intent on recruiting a stellar name to take over from Koeman..."
If he's after a stellar name, how does Silva come into it?
Silva - Silver - stars are silver - stellar is star.
Post by: TheRam on November 15, 2017, 08:16:09 PM
He didn't. He took them over when they were already adrift.
Hardly his fault they went down, is it.
Post by: velimski on November 15, 2017, 08:17:33 PM
Not too bad considering the pile of shite he inherited half way through the season.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 15, 2017, 08:20:01 PM
At least it's not that, even if you're Silva-skeptical. For the love of Christ, at least it's not that.
/and he absolutely did pull Hull out of the most hideous of death spirals, just didn't quite stick the landing
Post by: Bluedylan on November 15, 2017, 08:22:53 PM
27 points from 22 games Silva got at Hull.
Not too bad considering the pile of shite he inherited half way through the season.
And he was their third manager that season. They were an absolute mess when he arrived. Would've survived easily if Silva's points haul was projected across the season. Won his first four home games, beat Liverpool, beat Man Utd.
But no, he took them down. It was his fault. Let's just keep saying that over and over again, regardless of the context.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 15, 2017, 08:25:10 PM
Post by: blargins on November 15, 2017, 08:39:01 PM
Blarg - just keep telling yourself this - a week or so ago, it looked a very real possibility that Sam Fucking Allardyce was coming here, to piss on our ashes.
At least it's not that, even if you're Silva-skeptical. For the love of Christ, at least it's not that.
/and he absolutely did pull Hull out of the most hideous of death spirals, just didn't quite stick the landing
That's not really a metric we should go by, "at least it's not Fat Sam" (interesting how in the midst of PC, people still call him that).
Hull were two points from safety when he took over. And 6 points from safety when he jumped ship.
As I say, if he's our new manager, then he has my backing until such time it all goes tits up again. Or until he is a great success and then fucks off to Barca next summer.
Post by: Lxxx on November 15, 2017, 08:47:26 PM
Post by: Ross on November 15, 2017, 08:50:30 PM
Looking at it they were 2 points clear of Swansea with 3 games to play and lost all 3 against Sunderland (h) 0-2, Palace (a) 4-0 and Spurs (h) 1-7. Food for thought about the concerns over Silvas ability to organise a defence I guess given how open we’ve been ourselves all season.
Edit: yeah that’s wrong I crossed a bbc article with Hulls results and missed the first game out it seems. They would have stayed up if that's rightly included for the whole season. Still very worrying about the average 2 goals a game and blowing it with 3 games to go with their fate in their own hands.
Like I’ve said before he’s a gamble and could go either way but he shouldn’t be exonerated from Hulls relegation because others sat on in worses or equally bad positions when he got the job and they turned it around and got clear.
Post by: MrWhite on November 15, 2017, 09:06:29 PM
Actually Hull would have still gone down if Silva had of averaged his results out over a season, they’d have finished level with Watford on 40 points but had a worse goal difference.
Looking at it they were 2 points clear of Swansea with 3 games to play and lost all 3 against Sunderland (h) 0-2, Palace (a) 4-0 and Spurs (h) 1-7. Food for thought about the concerns over Silvas ability to organise a defence I guess given how open we’ve been ourselves all season.
It's difficult to put those last three results in context. The Sunderland game was against an already relegated team (who of course always suddenly remember how to play once out), albeit one they needed to win to stay up. The Palace game was away to a resurgent Allardyce stay up specialist team, which they went into knowing even if they won, and beat the outstanding Spurs in the final game, they might still go down on GD. As soon as Palace scored, you can see why their belief was destroyed, and the Spurs loss is easy to understand.
That said your point about goal difference is still fair, since even without those last two big losses they would still have been on worse GD in all likelihood. Whether not conceding with Hull is a fair measure is another question, particular having lost influential midfielders mid season, so maybe his Watford results are a better measure. They aren't that bad, other than a few games against free scoring big teams, and of course our freak comeback (without their good keeper for the key bit). There will more than a couple of teams that concede lots to City and Chelsea as well as Liverpool, particularly away from home. I'm not sure it's possible to draw any conclusions about whether he could get our team defending better as yet.
If we don't get him shortly, the season at Watford with average level PL defenders show give a fair indication.
Post by: Thornton_19 on November 15, 2017, 09:50:07 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 15, 2017, 10:13:38 PM
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-hull-city-exit-86287
Quote
It was a reign that lasted just 139 days, including only 18 league games, but short will always mean sweet for Marco Silva and Hull City.
Since first arriving in the depths of a bleak midwinter, the 39-year-old newcomer to the English game restored buoyancy to a sinking ship. The revival was not quite good enough to prevent City from disappearing below the surface, relegated on the penultimate weekend of the Premier League season, but Silva has left behind a fan base mourning his departure as though he was a promotion-winner.
Although news of his impending exit was hardly a surprise last night, supporters found the news no easier to digest. A talented, meticulous and driven head coach, so different to his eight English predecessors, will not be easily replaced as plans are drawn up for a Championship return.
Silva was unable to work his "miracle" at the KCOM Stadium but he still came closer than anyone had envisaged. A City side that reached the turn bottom of the table and on a run of one win in 18 games had no right to come so close.
And that will be the enduring legacy of Silva. He conjured hope where there had been none, giving City reason to believe relegation was not a given. The Tigers could not dodge a fate decreed by a negligent summer but Silva helped them have a very good go. Of the 54 points left up for grabs when appointed back in January, Silva banked 21 of them. That was still six short of the eventual requirements for survival yet three times the points City had managed in the 18 games that preceded his arrival.
Silva found a pulse in City's season just when most thought it was gone. Regardless of how badly the season ended, with three consecutive defeats against Sunderland, Crystal Palace and Tottenham, he will always deserve credit for that. Each and every player to have worked under Silva sang his praises. From the very first training session where he physically dragged captain Michael Dawson where he wanted him, City's head coach left a deep impression. Attention to detail was everything.
"Even if we do something as simple as a throw-in in training and it's not right, he makes you do it again until we get it right," said experienced defender Curtis Davies back in February.
Tom Huddlestone concurred: "Wherever the ball is on the pitch and whatever system we play we know exactly what is and what isn't required of us, with and without the ball. With the amount of information he's put into us there are no excuses."
Silva cajoled all he could from a limited squad. Training was intense and sessions often ran over. There was more carrot than stick, especially when apple crumble was removed from the canteen, but players loved Silva for it.
"He told us we'd have no days off and he's not been wrong but the boys are happy going in every day because we're all learning a lot under him," said Andy Robertson.
Silva was quick to make his mark. Just two training sessions preceded the FA Cup tie with Swansea City, his eventual nemesis in the Premier League relegation fight, but he still threw together a team to win 2-0.
A lengthy injury list made the first leg of the EFL Cup semi-final a thankless mission three days later but even with a squad unable to fill its 18 spots, City emerged with credit in a 2-0 loss. Then came the first of his vital home wins. Coming from behind to beat Bournemouth 3-1, a first victory in over two months lit the fires of belief.
A 0-0 draw away to Manchester United, City's first point at Old Trafford since 1924, was followed up by a 2-0 win over Liverpool. By the time Swansea, West Ham United and Middlesbrough were all defeated at the KCOM Stadium by early April, City had managed to clamber out of the relegation zone for the first time in almost six months.
The 2-0 win over Watford, where City fought for over an hour with 10 men following Oumar Niasse's red card, only entrenched the belief that Silva was something special.
Alas, Sam Clucas' spectacular strike in that win over the Hornets proved to be City's last Premier League goal of note under Silva. A 0-0 draw away to Southampton was commendable but a 2-0 loss at home to Sunderland and then a 4-0 defeat at Crystal Palace undid all the good work of four diligent months. The slender margin for error he inherited had finally expired.
Not that supporters held those defeats against Silva. His name was chanted on repeat once relegation was confirmed, with banners made pleading for the head coach to stick around.
The nagging suspicion is that City have lost a good one in Silva. A very good one, in fact. A month ago there was fanciful thoughts about how high City could finish in the Premier League next season if Silva was given financial backing and a full season.
Not anymore. Deep down it was always clear but Silva will not be accompanying City into the Championship. The last 139 days have made that impossible.
Sounds exactly like Martinez doesn't he, with all that attention to detail and intense training sessions?
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 15, 2017, 10:20:41 PM
Sounds exactly like Martinez doesn't he, with all that attention to detail and intense training sessions?
That’s fine as long as they practice corners.
Post by: D15TIN on November 15, 2017, 10:37:51 PM
That’s fine as long as they practice corners.And like Martinez he has only had 1 season were he has conceded less than 1 per game.
Post by: kramer0 on November 15, 2017, 11:03:24 PM
Aside from trying to sound clever, there's a good reason why Nagelsmann said that 70% of his job is social competence.
There's definitely a lot to like. I hope we don't take too long to meet Watford's valuation now that we've made up our minds.
Post by: Rhys on November 15, 2017, 11:27:05 PM
I wasnt sure on Roberto when we appointed him but it wasnt the fact that he had got them relegated which concerned me. It was that by the time he took them down he had been there 4 seasons, he'd taken over a side that had finished around mid table in the PL 3 out of the 4 previous seasons. Also one that had a solid defence and turned them instantly into a team that leaked goals. But most of all it was the fact that in 4 years they'd looked like going down each season but he'd done nothing to rectify the major reason they nearly went down each year, the defensive side of the team and it ultimately caught up with them. And in his 3 years with us it's not hard to see why given his outlook on the game and disregard for that part of it.
Silva took over a team that couldnt fill a bench at the start of the season, bruce walked away having just got them promoted again because the club werent willing to sanction deals to replace players properly. They had half a season with a good coach who wasnt a proper manager and looked a poor team. Silva came in and had 4-5 months not 4 years like Roberto, he got them looking like a team very quickly, and from where he got them to they probably should have stayed up to be honest. However the job he did there got them with a chance, they were becoming doomed as each week passed under Phelan.
I dont go along with the view of his time at Hull you can look at it and say yes he is destined for greatness, nor should it be a stick to to say he is poor because he got them relegated because pretty much everyone thought they were doomed with what he inherited. And I think thats the challenge we have as fans making our minds up because it's 2 short spells so it's hard to make a judgement from what we've seen since he came here but overall I'd say it was more impressive than poor for sure.
Post by: blue1948 on November 15, 2017, 11:34:43 PM
It harsh to put him in with Roberto in regards to the relegation of teams element especially.You could never say this was a sitting on the fence comment could you ? Well not really ,could you ? Well if you wanted likes then may be you could ,couldn't you ? Or may be I am wrong and it is just a comment that says nothing ,or I am wrong ?
I wasnt sure on Roberto when we appointed him but it wasnt the fact that he had got them relegated which concerned me. It was that by the time he took them down he had been there 4 seasons, he'd taken over a side that had finished around mid table in the PL 3 out of the 4 previous seasons. Also one that had a solid defence and turned them instantly into a team that leaked goals. But most of all it was the fact that in 4 years they'd looked like going down each season but he'd done nothing to rectify the major reason they nearly went down each year, the defensive side of the team and it ultimately caught up with them. And in his 3 years with us it's not hard to see why given his outlook on the game and disregard for that part of it.
Silva took over a team that couldnt fill a bench at the start of the season, bruce walked away having just got them promoted again because the club werent willing to sanction deals to replace players properly. They had half a season with a good coach who wasnt a proper manager and looked a poor team. Silva came in and had 4-5 months not 4 years like Roberto, he got them looking like a team very quickly, and from where he got them to they probably should have stayed up to be honest. However the job he did there got them with a chance, they were becoming doomed as each week passed under Phelan.
I dont go along with the view of his time at Hull you can look at it and say yes he is destined for greatness, nor should it be a stick to to say he is poor because he got them relegated because pretty much everyone thought they were doomed with what he inherited. And I think thats the challenge we have as fans making our minds up because it's 2 short spells so it's hard to make a judgement from what we've seen since he came here but overall I'd say it was more impressive than poor for sure.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 15, 2017, 11:47:07 PM
You could never say this was a sitting on the fence comment could you ? Well not really ,could you ? Well if you wanted likes then may be you could ,couldn't you ? Or may be I am wrong and it is just a comment that says nothing ,or I am wrong ?
Where you see 'sitting on the fence', I see 'balanced'. Weighing up some positives and negatives, the difficulty of the decision and then concluding that the positives outweigh the negatives in his opinion.
Down with this sort of thing! It must be amazing or garbage, there is no room for nuance.
Post by: Paddockoldie on November 15, 2017, 11:47:14 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 15, 2017, 11:50:59 PM
Just not feeling it. I don't think he'll improve us as much as we need.
So Allardyce? Dyche? As much as we need for what, depends what arbitrary target you think we should be looking at?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 16, 2017, 12:01:51 AM
Here's the view of a local paper when he left:
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-hull-city-exit-86287
Sounds exactly like Martinez doesn't he, with all that attention to detail and intense training sessions?
Wouldn't trust anything in the Hull Daily Mail.
Post by: eugene on November 16, 2017, 12:24:17 AM
It has been said often enough that only fans are loyal; most players and managers are not. But if this fella bombs out of Watford after 11 games, what does that say about him? Imagine what would have been said on here if Koeman had left after 11 games? I really hope he does not come for that reason apart from all what has been already said. Of course if we are landed with him, and results show little improvement then we will probably see him gone by next May. On the other hand he might be better than we think and might jack us up the table. Given a choice between the two, it is Dyche for me. Niasse will be pleased though. Which Watford players do you fancy? Cleverly?Don’t start on about Dyche again we’ve been here before, no man love at all “I was born under wandering star”
Post by: sam of the south on November 16, 2017, 12:28:19 AM
Where you see 'sitting on the fence', I see 'balanced'. Weighing up some positives and negatives, the difficulty of the decision and then concluding that the positives outweigh the negatives in his opinion.
Down with this sort of thing! It must be amazing or garbage, there is no room for nuance.
Yup, shades of grey, and everything in between
Post by: Tinga on November 16, 2017, 12:47:37 AM
Post by: School of Science on November 16, 2017, 12:51:48 AM
Doing us for tapping up now..
Usually do that when the player, or in this case manager wants to leave.
Post by: GLewis on November 16, 2017, 01:01:43 AM
Usually do that when the player, or in this case manager wants to leave.
Didn’t Norwich do us for tapping up Mike Walker...
;)
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 01:13:35 AM
Didn’t Norwich do us for tapping up Mike Walker...
;)
Another reason to leave well alone.
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 16, 2017, 01:17:43 AM
Another reason to leave well alone.
I'm pretty sure Mike Walker isn't in the running..... :hug:
Post by: eugene on November 16, 2017, 01:20:51 AM
I'm pretty sure Mike Walker isn't in the running..... :hug:Last I heard hew was driving a skip wagon seriously
Post by: Macca77 on November 16, 2017, 01:21:02 AM
Doing us for tapping up now..
The cheeky slags
Post by: Rhys on November 16, 2017, 01:23:01 AM
You could never say this was a sitting on the fence comment could you ? Well not really ,could you ? Well if you wanted likes then may be you could ,couldn't you ? Or may be I am wrong and it is just a comment that says nothing ,or I am wrong ?
You can say sitting on the fence, because I don't know either way if he is a very good manager or I want him or not. I would like him more than allardyce or dyche if that's who he is competing against (which isn't sitting on the fence for clarification) but couldn't say with confidence one way or the other how I think he'd do.
The point of it was that some people were using his relegation with hull to compare him to Roberto taking Wigan down and the relegation as a reason not to want him and that I think that is harsh and the reasons in the post as to why. Feel free to comment on the reasons rather than the logic though.
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 01:32:24 AM
I'm pretty sure Mike Walker isn't in the running..... :hug:
I was kidding ;)
I'm just not convinced but we shall see what happens. There's not much out there at the moment, that's for sure.
Post by: Brownie on November 16, 2017, 02:10:31 AM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 16, 2017, 02:21:51 AM
/in case she's listening, this does NOT apply to HillyBob
//shameless pandering to get back in blarg's good graces
Post by: School of Science on November 16, 2017, 02:23:04 AM
Didn’t Norwich do us for tapping up Mike Walker...
;)
We should definitely have listened ;)
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 16, 2017, 02:27:25 AM
Telegraph reporting that we've failed in a second attempt to get SilvaIt's hard to care that much really. I mean I love Everton but I have no idea if he'd be good or shite for us so if we get him yaaay. If we dont meh
Post by: Brownie on November 16, 2017, 02:35:35 AM
It's hard to care that much really. I mean I love Everton but I have no idea if he'd be good or shite for us so if we get him yaaay. If we dont meh
I'm very apathetic to it all at the minute mate. There's no stand out candidate to me and to be honest, after the disappointment of our last two appointments, I don't think I can get excited until someone has been in the job for a few games to see what they bring
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 02:42:10 AM
I'm very apathetic to it all at the minute mate. There's no stand out candidate to me and to be honest, after the disappointment of our last two appointments, I don't think I can get excited until someone has been in the job for a few games to see what they bring
Exactly how I feel. With Martinez and koeman I was quite excited to see what they would bring after eons of Moyes control. Right now, I am very indifferent to all the names that have been put forward as realistic options. I think the key is going to be January and getting the right players in to balance the rest of the team out.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 16, 2017, 02:43:06 AM
Was actually starting to get something of a complex, despite BD's repeated (much needed) pep talks.
Post by: everton1952 on November 16, 2017, 02:43:18 AM
Post by: eugene on November 16, 2017, 03:01:37 AM
I do not blame Watford. I asked before how we would have felt if Koeman had been tapped after only 11 games. The whole thing is sordid. Leave Silva alone. Unless he comes out plain and says "Everton was always the club of my dreams please allow me to go there, and I will always hold Watford close to my heart". That will not happen so give it up.Only because you want Dyche
Post by: everton1952 on November 16, 2017, 03:04:36 AM
Post by: TheTone on November 16, 2017, 03:05:55 AM
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 16, 2017, 03:12:29 AM
For people to cheer the fuck up.
And who are you like?
I'm not moaning because I'm past the point of giving too much of a shit but it always makes me laugh when certain posters seem to think they have the authority or right to tell other members what to do, say or think. This forum is rife with it.
Post by: brap2 on November 16, 2017, 03:47:40 AM
Under Koeman, although he got rid of the above and they hired a new nutritionalist, they were apparently allowed full English breakfasts before training.
This guy is removing Apple crumble. He’s got a head start for me.
Post by: hill135 on November 16, 2017, 03:56:17 AM
Remember when he said he didn’t believe in muscle injuries? Haha
Post by: Macca77 on November 16, 2017, 03:57:08 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-preparing-second-approach-watford-13907729.amp
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 16, 2017, 04:29:33 AM
I'm very apathetic to it all at the minute mate. There's no stand out candidate to me and to be honest, after the disappointment of our last two appointments, I don't think I can get excited until someone has been in the job for a few games to see what they bringI think there are quite a few on here who are ‘pre-apathy’ hence tensions running high. It’s like a final death rattle of giving a fuck. This season very quickly became some sort of mourning period. I think most of us thought we were back in the big time; not necessarily ready to break the top 4 but convinced we’d continue to improve. And we’ve got backwards. Not unsalvageable, but way off where we thought we’d be. I’m just drained by it all.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 16, 2017, 04:43:34 AM
And who are you like?
I'm not moaning because I'm past the point of giving too much of a shit but it always makes me laugh when certain posters seem to think they have the authority or right to tell other members what to do, say or think. This forum is rife with it.
lolol
It's an observation lad, of here and the wider supporter base at present. I don't actually give a fuck how you or anyone else behave on here, and if you can't see the tongue firmly in cheek nature of my posts then that's your lookout. I thought the meme was a fair giveaway. This is an internet forum, it's not going to get me all upset out in the 'real world'.
However, it would be nice to see a cheerful post from you once in a while. Just to mix things up a little.
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 16, 2017, 04:51:36 AM
It's an observation lad, of here and the wider supporter base at present. I don't actually give a fuck how you or anyone else behave on here, and if you can't see the tongue firmly in cheek nature of my posts then that's your lookout. I thought the meme was fair giveaway
"Sick of the negativity on here at the moment" sick of something to the point of making a comment on it yet you don't give a fuck?
But yeah whatever.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 16, 2017, 04:55:58 AM
"Sick of the negativity on here at the moment" sick of something to the point of making a comment on it yet you don't give a fuck?
But yeah whatever.
Haha, a comment that took all of two seconds. It must be the end of my world. Woe is me.
Honestly, be as cheerful or as miserable (or anywhere in between as you like), it really is of no major concern.
Post by: boothill on November 16, 2017, 05:52:15 AM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 16, 2017, 12:34:43 PM
IF,and i only said IF, if west ham turn watford over at the weekend would that change peoples positive view of a silva appointmentWas thinking this when I saw the fixtures
Post by: everton1952 on November 16, 2017, 04:52:06 PM
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 05:03:02 PM
IF,and i only said IF, if west ham turn watford over at the weekend would that change peoples positive view of a silva appointment
It would depend on the kind of defeat. We just got lucky and beat them. Will Gomez be back in goal?
Judging a manager based on a single game would be daft. Either we're about to get him, or we aren't. If we do, it's irrelevant, if we don't then judge him over the whole season.
Post by: boothill on November 16, 2017, 05:31:56 PM
Post by: Lxxx on November 16, 2017, 05:38:36 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 16, 2017, 05:47:09 PM
Post by: Lxxx on November 16, 2017, 05:58:15 PM
Post by: Normm on November 16, 2017, 06:13:59 PM
He might turn around the present poor form at Watford, but that remains to be seen. We do not know yet if he can turn around a failing club. He tried once.
In the head-to-head with Unsworth, Unsworth came out on top. The players responded to him in a way that was epic.
Post by: Normm on November 16, 2017, 06:20:19 PM
... we're having to pay Watford in the region of £10m for Silva too.
i.e. If the Everton board has lost its marbles...and another 10m when he fails.
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 06:28:12 PM
i.e. If the Everton board has lost its marbles...and another 10m when he fails.
If we're smart, we'll do what Watford do and offer short term contracts from now on. Will save a fortune.
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 06:34:29 PM
If we're smart, we'll do what Watford do and offer short term contracts from now on. Will save a fortune.
It's daft that anyone gets these jobs on multi-year contracts. In nearly all jobs, you have a probationary period. Why not have that in management too? The contract could even spell out terms of what is required to "pass".
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 06:44:27 PM
And backroom staff contracts should always be in conjunction with manager performance if the manager brings in his own. Sacking these days usually lead to several people being paid a mint because of their group failings. If they tie their colours to the guys mast by following him around well paying prestige jobs, they should be bound to suffer his failing too.
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 06:49:36 PM
In fact why not go further, even after passing probation, there should be a set 'standard' that must at minimum be maintained. Insert clauses that if the standard is not met, then a fresh probationary period is brought in. HR these days has procedures for dealing with employees whose ongoing competence is in question; Having earned their contract with probation at the start, the company will then give an employee fair warning of issue and possible consequence including giving notice. In practice something along those lines probably happens in private anyway (ok Ronald, you've got 3 games to save your job) but why not make it all nice and legally bound so stupid payoffs for failure don't happen? Then it's only if a manager doing well is sacked because the owner is a dick that they get compensation.
And backroom staff contracts should always be in conjunction with manager performance if the manager brings in his own. Sacking these days usually lead to several people being paid a mint because of their group failings. If they tie their colours to the guys mast by following him around well paying prestige jobs, they should be bound to suffer his failing too.
While I think this is sound in theory, every club would have to implement such a thing. For instance, we're trying to attract a good manager. If they already have a decent contract where they are, sure we could entice them with more money, but as soon as we say there's no failure payments, they're likely not to come in the first place. Tricky.
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
While I think this is sound in theory, every club would have to implement such a thing. For instance, we're trying to attract a good manager. If they already have a decent contract where they are, sure we could entice them with more money, but as soon as we say there's no failure payments, they're likely not to come in the first place. Tricky.
True. But Watford are already demonstrating a more progressive model, with shorter contracts and break clauses so they only guarantee a year (no idea how that works if they sack him mid first season). And while you would put off big names, it wouldn't put off ambitious younger managers looking for a chance on the big stage. We'd be gambling on less proven talent, but would be easily and cheaply be able to get shut. I bet Unsy would snap their hand off with such an offer (ok, he's biased).
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 07:01:39 PM
True. But Watford are already demonstrating a more progressive model, with shorter contracts and break clauses so they only guarantee a year (no idea how that works if they sack him mid first season). And while you would put off big names, it wouldn't put off ambitious younger managers looking for a chance on the big stage. We'd be gambling on less proven talent, but would be easily and cheaply be able to get shut. I bet Unsy would snap their hand off with such an offer (ok, he's biased).
Guess it would all be in the negotiations.
But I totally agree there shouldn't be reward for failure. There's enough of that around already.
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 07:06:27 PM
Weve been diabolical and yet are on near enough the same points has them.
After so few games, when we've just fluked a six-pointer with them.. Say Niasse hadn't KO'd their keeper, and we had lost that game? We'd be ten points behind them.
It's a long season. Judging his performance with Watford at this point is premature.
Post by: Waltzer on November 16, 2017, 07:12:30 PM
Guess it would all be in the negotiations.
But I totally agree there shouldn't be reward for failure. There's enough of that around already.
You need to look at it the other way too, I for one think Koeman had very little chance to succeed this season given the appalling job that was done in replacing Lukaku. Yes he was part of the problem, but certainly not the only one responsible, yet he is the only one found culpable, and has probably had long term reputational damage inflicted on him because of the actions of others meaning his future chances of employment might have diminished? Is he being rewarded for failure? Not really in my eyes, hes being paid off to be the scapegoat for a system that failed him and us.
With the above said if you manage to get a team behind you like Martinez did then the worlds your oyster, he had an absolute mare, got paid off handsomely then somehow got one of the most attractive jobs in world football!!
Post by: TheRam on November 16, 2017, 07:12:55 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 16, 2017, 07:21:04 PM
We haven't half spunked away serious cash over the past few years on managers. We had to pay Martinez £10m to leave, probably paid Koeman the same with nearly two years left of a £6m/year contract and looking like we're having to pay Watford in the region of £10m for Silva too.
Mersey Millionaires: The Management Years
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 16, 2017, 07:22:15 PM
After so few games, when we've just fluked a six-pointer with them.. Say Niasse hadn't KO'd their keeper, and we had lost that game? We'd be ten points behind them.
It's a long season. Judging his performance with Watford at this point is premature.
Plus, they are in the shit right now, with their manager compromised (ie, players know he really wants to leave). At bare minimum, unsettling.
Post by: MrWhite on November 16, 2017, 07:32:14 PM
You need to look at it the other way too, I for one think Koeman had very little chance to succeed this season given the appalling job that was done in replacing Lukaku. Yes he was part of the problem, but certainly not the only one responsible, yet he is the only one found culpable, and has probably had long term reputational damage inflicted on him because of the actions of others meaning his future chances of employment might have diminished? Is he being rewarded for failure? Not really in my eyes, hes being paid off to be the scapegoat for a system that failed him and us.
With the above said if you manage to get a team behind you like Martinez did then the worlds your oyster, he had an absolute mare, got paid off handsomely then somehow got one of the most attractive jobs in world football!!
There's a lot of assumption about who is at fault for the transfers. It's easy to say Koeman was scuppered by others, but we don't know enough about what went on. Did Koeman insist on only certain players, who we could not get for reasons beyond anyone's control (Giroud didn't want to come, we couldn't just kidnap him) or did Walsh fail to provide anyone? Without knowing how that dynamic worked and how Moshiri/Bill oversaw it we can only guess at where the blame should lie.
I guess Belgium figured his methods could work when you have top class players all over the pitch. If fairness they might not be wrong, the only question is will the PL wear out his key players just in time for the summer? If they were to win or get to the final, the whole 'England players are tired from the PL' argument will be scuppered.
Post by: blargins on November 16, 2017, 07:39:44 PM
You need to look at it the other way too, I for one think Koeman had very little chance to succeed this season given the appalling job that was done in replacing Lukaku. Yes he was part of the problem, but certainly not the only one responsible, yet he is the only one found culpable, and has probably had long term reputational damage inflicted on him because of the actions of others meaning his future chances of employment might have diminished? Is he being rewarded for failure? Not really in my eyes, hes being paid off to be the scapegoat for a system that failed him and us.
With the above said if you manage to get a team behind you like Martinez did then the worlds your oyster, he had an absolute mare, got paid off handsomely then somehow got one of the most attractive jobs in world football!!
And this is probably why it hasn't been a factor in the hiring and firing of managers up to this point. Failure is quite subjective, and it depends on the club you are at. For a team like Watford say, then finishing mid table is a success. For a team like Arsenal, finishing 5th is failure.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 16, 2017, 07:43:15 PM
There's a lot of assumption about who is at fault for the transfers. It's easy to say Koeman was scuppered by others, but we don't know enough about what went on. Did Koeman insist on only certain players, who we could not get for reasons beyond anyone's control (Giroud didn't want to come, we couldn't just kidnap him) or did Walsh fail to provide anyone? Without knowing how that dynamic worked and how Moshiri/Bill oversaw it we can only guess at where the blame should lie.
I guess Belgium figured his methods could work when you have top class players all over the pitch. If fairness they might not be wrong, the only question is will the PL wear out his key players just in time for the summer? If they were to win or get to the final, the whole 'England players are tired from the PL' argument will be scuppered.
One can also say (and I didn't think about this when the appointment was made) that RM's approach makes much more sense for international competition, when you really have to have some flair to win (you don't play together enough to win by being "solid").
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 16, 2017, 07:44:55 PM
Probably compromise and get him at the end of the season.
I'd rather give him a season at Watford see how he gets on. He's started brightly but plenty of managers have done that. He's took some absolute hammerings whilst at Watford and Hull and I'd like see if he can solve that problem going forward with Watford
Post by: mikey_blue on November 16, 2017, 07:53:32 PM
I'd rather give him a season at Watford see how he gets on. He's started brightly but plenty of managers have done that. He's took some absolute hammerings whilst at Watford and Hull and I'd like see if he can solve that problem going forward with Watford
I'd give it to Unsworth till the end of the season, and then take a serious look at Silva. Could be the next Poch, but more likely the next Roberto. I'd prefer to find that out with him at Watford.
Post by: boothill on November 16, 2017, 07:56:15 PM
After so few games, when we've just fluked a six-pointer with them.. Say Niasse hadn't KO'd their keeper, and we had lost that game? We'd be ten points behind them.Im not judging unsy against watford, im not judging silva, the question was IF he gets turned over by west ham. This after a bad run of results too, would peoples view of him change . And to be fair ,out of all the foreign managers mentioned he as the most premier experience, apart from ancelloti, which is a massive plus and probably be my choice if pushed .
It's a long season. Judging his performance with Watford at this point is premature.
Post by: Redartin on November 16, 2017, 08:19:51 PM
I'd rather give him a season at Watford see how he gets on. He's started brightly but plenty of managers have done that. He's took some absolute hammerings whilst at Watford and Hull and I'd like see if he can solve that problem going forward with Watford
Anyone tracking Martinez after a full season with us would have been having orgasms about how great he was, yet we now know better. It means nothing.
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 16, 2017, 08:22:18 PM
Anyone tracking Martinez after a full season with us would have been having orgasms about how great he was, yet we now know better. It means nothing.
means more than basing your judgement off the back of 12 games and half a season with Hull. Surely?
Post by: Redartin on November 16, 2017, 08:56:35 PM
means more than basing your judgement off the back of 12 games and half a season with Hull. Surely?
Not really. In a fair test only one thing should differ.
You really don't know how anyone will do. Martinez arrived here and done really well with basically Moyes' players, then he brought in his own guys and fucked up big time. Koeman also done better with Martinez's players than the shite he brought in.
You cant compare how someone done at Hull or Watford or Burnley or anywhere because it is all irrelevant, because if they come to Everton they will have different players (some say better players but...) to operate with. It is all a huge gamble, they could flop like Koeman or they could take off big time like Martinez' first season. No one knows.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 16, 2017, 09:47:54 PM
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-marco-silva-watford-manager-13898958
Post by: Macca77 on November 16, 2017, 10:25:25 PM
Further tactical analysis of why he's nothing like Martinez whatsoever:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-marco-silva-watford-manager-13898958
Copy and paste please, the echo website slows my computer down so much
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 16, 2017, 10:29:50 PM
Not really. In a fair test only one thing should differ.
You really don't know how anyone will do. Martinez arrived here and done really well with basically Moyes' players, then he brought in his own guys and fucked up big time. Koeman also done better with Martinez's players than the shite he brought in.
You cant compare how someone done at Hull or Watford or Burnley or anywhere because it is all irrelevant, because if they come to Everton they will have different players (some say better players but...) to operate with. It is all a huge gamble, they could flop like Koeman or they could take off big time like Martinez' first season. No one knows.
Sorry I don't know what your point is here at all.
Of course it's difficult to judge how a manager will do based on his record at his current/previous job. I don't disagree with that. Of course I don't know how anyone will do, nobody does. What is the point your making?
My point is I'd feel a lot more comfortable judging him over a longer period of time than an 11 game period where they have done relatively well. Clearly you can make a more solid judgement of someone as a manager when they have been in the role for a longer period which was my point. A point you don't disagree with based on your comments so I don't know what your point is
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 16, 2017, 10:32:59 PM
Anyone tracking Martinez after a full season with us would have been having orgasms about how great he was, yet we now know better. It means nothing.
Which is why I would not want to rush in on Silva after 11 games. What's your point?
Post by: Lxxx on November 17, 2017, 03:31:49 AM
Post by: TheRam on November 17, 2017, 04:20:58 AM
Post by: Makis on November 17, 2017, 04:27:33 AM
Copy and paste please, the echo website slows my computer down so muchInstall Adblock and Noscript, should help.
Post by: Gash on November 17, 2017, 04:28:30 AM
Install Adblock and Noscript, should help.
Is that manager and assistant? Never heard of them.
Post by: ally2 on November 17, 2017, 04:39:24 AM
Is that manager and assistant? Never heard of them.
Unfortunately the release clause is a piss-take. Back to square 1 it is
Post by: Shropshire Blue on November 17, 2017, 04:50:29 AM
Going with an accomplished manager also has risks (Mourinho at Chelsea second time around?)
I hope the club is brave and goes for potential because if they get it right the rewards are massive and I'll forgive them for being wrong providing they show ambition and guts trying.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 17, 2017, 05:13:07 AM
Post by: blargins on November 17, 2017, 06:03:31 AM
Got a much more promising record than Koeman and Martinez ever had.
Koeman has a superior record although all of his trophies came over 8 years ago.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 17, 2017, 06:10:20 AM
Koeman has had more success, in the Prem and abroad.
Martinez has also had much more success in the Prem, he also got his team relegated, but did manage to win a trophy I suppose.
I suppose as a younger man, maybe he's more highly regarded than either Martinez or Koeman were at that age.
I'm warming to the idea of Silva, but Im still leaning more towards keeping Unsworth in place until the end of the season, weigh up our options then.
Post by: TheRam on November 17, 2017, 01:43:08 PM
Can't say that for the other two.
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 17, 2017, 08:26:29 PM
The Portuguese moved to Vicarage Road over the summer and has overseen a fine start to the season, guiding the Hornets to 15 points from their first 11 games and ninth place in the table.
The Toffees are in the hunt for a new manager after sacking Ronald Koeman at the end of the month, meanwhile, and have reportedly been turned down twice by Watfordover a move for Silva.
"What I can tell you about this situation is I look at this situation like for some players when they play well, or somebody that the coach wants from another club," Silva told journalists today. "For me, now this is a case for the board and the owners to discuss the situation. For me it is a normal situation, I understand the question."
Asked if he wanted to talk to Everton but was being prevented from doing so, he responded: "I don't answer this question. I read many many things in the week. I need to talk with my owner, my board and my players as well. I do my job normally during the week.
"I don't want to talk about Everton. I am here to talk about the West Ham match. If you want to talk to me about Everton, it's not the club where I work."
Positive?
Post by: TheRam on November 17, 2017, 08:31:05 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 17, 2017, 08:32:32 PM
Watford manager Marco Silva has refused to deny speculation that he is keen to take the Everton job.
The Portuguese moved to Vicarage Road over the summer and has overseen a fine start to the season, guiding the Hornets to 15 points from their first 11 games and ninth place in the table.
The Toffees are in the hunt for a new manager after sacking Ronald Koeman at the end of the month, meanwhile, and have reportedly been turned down twice by Watfordover a move for Silva.
"What I can tell you about this situation is I look at this situation like for some players when they play well, or somebody that the coach wants from another club," Silva told journalists today. "For me, now this is a case for the board and the owners to discuss the situation. For me it is a normal situation, I understand the question."
Asked if he wanted to talk to Everton but was being prevented from doing so, he responded: "I don't answer this question. I read many many things in the week. I need to talk with my owner, my board and my players as well. I do my job normally during the week.
"I don't want to talk about Everton. I am here to talk about the West Ham match. If you want to talk to me about Everton, it's not the club where I work."
Positive?
Enough in that to suggest he wants to come in my opinion
Post by: Macca77 on November 17, 2017, 08:38:14 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 17, 2017, 08:43:16 PM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 17, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 17, 2017, 08:49:25 PM
Post by: mikey_blue on November 17, 2017, 08:49:29 PM
Post by: Brownie on November 17, 2017, 08:51:23 PM
He wants it
The dirty slag!!!
Post by: Macca77 on November 17, 2017, 08:56:25 PM
Quote
"I don't want to talk about Everton. I am here to talk about the West Ham match. If you want to talk to me about Everton, it's not the club where I work."
Rumour has it, he had his fingers crossed behind his back and winked at the camera just after he said this
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 17, 2017, 09:11:03 PM
Watford manager Marco Silva has refused to deny speculation that he is keen to take the Everton job.
The Portuguese moved to Vicarage Road over the summer and has overseen a fine start to the season, guiding the Hornets to 15 points from their first 11 games and ninth place in the table.
The Toffees are in the hunt for a new manager after sacking Ronald Koeman at the end of the month, meanwhile, and have reportedly been turned down twice by Watfordover a move for Silva.
"What I can tell you about this situation is I look at this situation like for some players when they play well, or somebody that the coach wants from another club," Silva told journalists today. "For me, now this is a case for the board and the owners to discuss the situation. For me it is a normal situation, I understand the question."
Asked if he wanted to talk to Everton but was being prevented from doing so, he responded: "I don't answer this question. I read many many things in the week. I need to talk with my owner, my board and my players as well. I do my job normally during the week.
"I don't want to talk about Everton. I am here to talk about the West Ham match. If you want to talk to me about Everton, it's not the club where I work."
Positive?
The little cock tease.
Post by: sam of the south on November 17, 2017, 09:13:02 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 17, 2017, 09:15:57 PM
Post by: everton1952 on November 17, 2017, 09:24:20 PM
Having said that, I stick by my other view that as a fan I would be furious if an EFC manager departed after such a short time for a pay rise somewhere else.
Post by: mikey_blue on November 17, 2017, 09:27:11 PM
I read the thread earlier saying how badly Watford bosses treated successive managers, so I now think stuff them, and if it happens don't feel guilty towards Watford. Therefore I no longer believe the whole Silva approach is disreputable on the grounds that he has only been there 11 games etc etc. Just forget all about loyalty of managers and players, it hardly exists in this game.
Having said that, I stick by my other view that as a fan I would be furious if an EFC manager departed after such a short time for a pay rise somewhere else.
It's totally cool having double standards when it comes to Everton.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 17, 2017, 09:27:17 PM
He wants it
He's going to get it big time.
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 17, 2017, 09:31:33 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 17, 2017, 09:37:07 PM
https://twitter.com/samstreetwrites/status/931519746838876160
oh God, it's really happening! I need to find some way to get money on West Ham for the weekend, though. They should walk the Moose Hornets off the pitch.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 17, 2017, 09:41:03 PM
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 17, 2017, 10:01:53 PM
I read the thread earlier saying how badly Watford bosses treated successive managers, so I now think stuff them, and if it happens don't feel guilty towards Watford. Therefore I no longer believe the whole Silva approach is disreputable on the grounds that he has only been there 11 games etc etc. Just forget all about loyalty of managers and players, it hardly exists in this game.
Having said that, I stick by my other view that as a fan I would be furious if an EFC manager departed after such a short time for a pay rise somewhere else.
Is Elton John still involved with Watford?
Post by: Bluedylan on November 17, 2017, 10:19:32 PM
oh God, it's really happening! I need to find some way to get money on West Ham for the weekend, though. They should walk the Moose Hornets off the pitch.
Get your money on Silva as the next Everton manager instead. Can still get around 7/4ish.
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 17, 2017, 10:33:41 PM
Get your money on Silva as the next Everton manager instead. Can still get around 7/4ish.
11/10 on Sky bet today, favourite.
Post by: Macca77 on November 17, 2017, 10:35:52 PM
11/10 on Sky bet today, favourite.
I lashed a bluey on it at 6/1 last week, ill be proper rich!
Post by: Bluedylan on November 17, 2017, 10:35:53 PM
11/10 on Sky bet today, favourite.
Paddy Power, 7/4 ;)
Post by: Alanvideo on November 17, 2017, 10:37:30 PM
11/10 on Sky bet today, favourite.............still 7/4 on Paddy power ,even better 12/5 on Betfair
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 17, 2017, 10:40:23 PM
Post by: Shogun on November 17, 2017, 10:46:27 PM
Post by: Paddockoldie on November 17, 2017, 11:02:11 PM
I'd still give Unsey a few more games before panic appointing. His stats (Watfords) aren't that much better than what we have.
Post by: TheTone on November 17, 2017, 11:03:55 PM
Post by: Lxxx on November 17, 2017, 11:19:14 PM
Watford manager Marco Silva has refused to deny speculation that he is keen to take the Everton job.
The Portuguese moved to Vicarage Road over the summer and has overseen a fine start to the season, guiding the Hornets to 15 points from their first 11 games and ninth place in the table.
The Toffees are in the hunt for a new manager after sacking Ronald Koeman at the end of the month, meanwhile, and have reportedly been turned down twice by Watfordover a move for Silva.
"What I can tell you about this situation is I look at this situation like for some players when they play well, or somebody that the coach wants from another club," Silva told journalists today. "For me, now this is a case for the board and the owners to discuss the situation. For me it is a normal situation, I understand the question."
Asked if he wanted to talk to Everton but was being prevented from doing so, he responded: "I don't answer this question. I read many many things in the week. I need to talk with my owner, my board and my players as well. I do my job normally during the week.
"I don't want to talk about Everton. I am here to talk about the West Ham match. If you want to talk to me about Everton, it's not the club where I work."
Positive?
He's got wind of Koeman's salary.
Post by: Macca77 on November 17, 2017, 11:23:49 PM
Post by: goodtouchforabigman on November 17, 2017, 11:27:47 PM
Hope I'm proved wrong but I have a bad feeling about this. Bit then I had a good feeling about Koemans, so fuck my feelings😂
Post by: Paddockoldie on November 17, 2017, 11:32:26 PM
No. no. no. no. no, please no.
Hope I'm proved wrong but I have a bad feeling about this. Bit then I had a good feeling about Koemans, so fuck my feelings😂
Same boat mate.
Post by: Crackling on November 17, 2017, 11:33:58 PM
. His stats (Watfords) aren't that much better than what we have.
Our players are MUCH better than what he has at Watford though, despite our squad lacking balance.
Think about what he has done with Hull and Watford players. Hull may have gone down but to anyone who watched them last season, he improved them significantly.
The same with Watford this season really. Doucoure hardly got a game last season. He's even made Cleverley look good.
Besides Richarlison I don't think there are many in their squad that we would want.
Yeah of course it could go wrong, but I'm quite excited to see what he can do with our squad once it is strengthened in January and then the summer.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 17, 2017, 11:36:14 PM
Post by: ally2 on November 18, 2017, 12:17:42 AM
Post by: Gash on November 18, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
Ooooooohhh Everton we love you. :)
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 18, 2017, 01:02:37 AM
And do we have any players in the books that he instantly won’t fancy (like RK with Barkley and Unsworth with everyone signed in 2017). I’m hoping someone says Belgian wingers.
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 18, 2017, 01:05:38 AM
Post by: TheRam on November 18, 2017, 01:05:52 AM
So has this dude unearthed any gems?
And do we have any players in the books that he instantly won’t fancy (like RK with Barkley and Unsworth with everyone signed in 2017). I’m hoping someone says Belgian wingers.
Richarlyson? Awful spelling.
Or maybe that was the structure of Watford who found him.
He's made a player out of Tom cleverley and a few others at Watford though.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 18, 2017, 01:11:23 AM
Richarlyson? Awful spelling.
Or maybe that was the structure of Watford who found him.
He's made a player out of Tom cleverley and a few others at Watford though.
Really poor on my part, but Watford are such a nothing club I pay them literally no attention.
At least he hates Troy Deeney and he will stop being linked with us.
Post by: pjk on November 18, 2017, 02:29:48 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5093659/Marco-Silva-gives-Watford-no-sign-wants-stay.html
Post by: Shogun on November 18, 2017, 02:47:16 AM
Post by: Toffee Tuesdays on November 18, 2017, 03:08:35 AM
Post by: pjk on November 18, 2017, 03:35:35 AM
Sorry if it's been mentioned, I haven't gone through all 16 pages, but I'm assuming we'd have to pay Watford compensation? What happened to Tuchel? Gets me nervous after we had to pay a large sum to get Koeman here and then another large sum to get rid of him. Then a couple more million to Watford for Silva if I had to guess? Just seems like a waste to me.
I don't know how accurate the article is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5093659/Marco-Silva-gives-Watford-no-sign-wants-stay.html
Post by: Toffee Tuesdays on November 18, 2017, 04:00:41 AM
I don't know how accurate the article is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5093659/Marco-Silva-gives-Watford-no-sign-wants-stay.html
Thanks. 8.5-10m in compensation! I hope that's not accurate
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 04:03:59 AM
Thanks. 8.5-10m in compensation! I hope that's not accurate
Why? What does it matter?
Post by: Escla on November 18, 2017, 04:14:41 AM
Thanks. 8.5-10m in compensation! I hope that's not accurate
Why are you worried ?
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 04:17:42 AM
Post by: Toffee Tuesdays on November 18, 2017, 04:42:32 AM
Post by: Toddacelli on November 18, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
Post by: TheRam on November 18, 2017, 04:27:28 PM
We can't just throw money around constantly over paying for people. It's shows desperation on our part and it's something Moshiri continues to do.
Only so far a club can do this for before it all falls apart.
Post by: Toddacelli on November 18, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
Same people saying the amount of compensation doesn't matter are the same people who continued to try and justify paying 45mil for sigurdson.
We can't just throw money around constantly over paying for people. It's shows desperation on our part and it's something Moshiri continues to do.
Only so far a club can do this for before it all falls apart.
I used to be in the middle. I used to think the money has gone so ridiculous that I would just stop worrying about it because I genuinely have no clue as to how it all works.
But yeah, we do seem to be throwing a lot around without a lot to show for it in return. If we were splashing it and buying success I would be ok because success will bring more money and I can see how that is sustainable. But we're not. We're splashing it around and ending up with terrible results. Pickford and Oyekuru aside, who or what have we spent money on that looks like a good investment that will bring money or success to the club? Keane maybe? Sandro possibly but only because we got him so cheap and not if we don't give him gametime. Lookman? After that I'm struggling.
But the list of potentially bad investments is much longer.
Even I can tell that in these ridiculous sponsor-your-training-facilities, Walker-for-fifty-mill, twenty-five-mill-buys-a-bang-average-player days that this is NOT sustainable.
Time to be concerned.
I'm starting to be concerned
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 18, 2017, 04:48:20 PM
We can't just throw money around constantly over paying for people. It's shows desperation on our part and it's something Moshiri continues to do.
Only so far a club can do this for before it all falls apart.
You can also view it as part of a learning curve for Moshiri.
The man has never owned a football club before, and all his previous success has come through his relationship with Usmanov. Whilst Everton may not be the biggest project he has taken on from a financial perspective, it is without doubt his most challenging and one that he is (so we are led to believe) doing entirely on his own. He was never going to get every decision right.
In a venture like this mistakes are going to be made, and you'd like to think he recognised it wouldn't all be plain sailing when he came on board. City didnt get it right when they first got rich. These things can take time.
Whilst no one wants to see us get it wrong, the more important thing is that Moshiri has deep pockets, is hopefully in it for the long term, and learns from his mistakes.
Post by: Silas on November 18, 2017, 04:48:47 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on November 18, 2017, 04:48:48 PM
I used to be in the middle. I used to think the money has gone so ridiculous that I would just stop worrying about it because I genuinely have no clue as to how it all works.
But yeah, we do seem to be throwing a lot around without a lot to show for it in return. If we were splashing it and buying success I would be ok because success will bring more money and I can see how that is sustainable. But we're not. We're splashing it around and ending up with terrible results. Pickford and Oyekuru aside, who or what have we spent money on that looks like a good investment that will bring money or success to the club? Keane maybe? Sandro possibly but only because we got him so cheap and not if we don't give him gametime. Lookman? After that I'm struggling.
But the list of potentially bad investments is much longer.
Even I can tell that in these ridiculous sponsor-your-training-facilities, Walker-for-fifty-mill, twenty-five-mill-buys-a-bang-average-player days that this is NOT sustainable.
Time to be concerned.
I'm starting to be concerned
I'm really concerned - I swear I didn't type that last line - the one without the full stop - wtf?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 18, 2017, 04:55:29 PM
8-10m would buy a very average player these days, and the manager is far more important of an area.
It would also pay a very decent player's wages for two years or it would be a nice tidy sum for a year's sponsorship.
We can't justify everything because the transfer market is stupid.
Post by: ally2 on November 18, 2017, 05:06:13 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on November 18, 2017, 05:13:27 PM
Whilst Everton may not be the biggest project he has taken on from a financial perspective, it is without doubt his most challenging.
Bit off topic and I don't really want to derail your main point, which I generally agree with, but that is one hell of an assuption to make about a self-made billionaire accountant.
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 18, 2017, 05:33:10 PM
Bit off topic and I don't really want to derail your main point, which I generally agree with, but that is one hell of an assuption to make about a self-made billionaire accountant.
Yeah it is. But he got rich entirely off of Usmanovs success and has ridden his coattails for a number of investments after that. He mostly operates in the natural resources sector and, in that space, money and connections talk.
Whereas his money and connections don't put him at any advantage compared to the competition in the Premier League. So I do think it's his biggest challenge, by far, to date.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 06:10:24 PM
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 06:16:21 PM
Same people saying the amount of compensation doesn't matter are the same people who continued to try and justify paying 45mil for sigurdson.
We can't just throw money around constantly over paying for people. It's shows desperation on our part and it's something Moshiri continues to do.
Only so far a club can do this for before it all falls apart.
Granted, but we the fans are not the one who dictate prices. 10m for a manager seems very reasonable in this climate.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 06:23:19 PM
Granted, but we the fans are not the one who dictate prices. 10m for a manager seems very reasonable in this climate.
But when you consider we've spent close to what we paid for for Sigurdsson in managers over the past couple of years, it begins to get alarming.
You can say half the Lukaku fee has gone on managers. Which is why we have to try to be as bang on with this one as much as possible, and not just get the current flavour of the month.
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 18, 2017, 06:27:55 PM
Is anyone saying that they would take Silva for free, but not for £8m?
I'd be amazed if so.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 06:28:21 PM
But when you consider we've spent close to what we paid for for Sigurdsson in managers over the past couple of years, it begins to get alarming.
It's only alarming if you can't afford it.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 06:30:29 PM
It's only alarming if you can't afford it.
Quickest way to losing a fortune is that kind of attitude.
A fool and his money are easily parted.
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 18, 2017, 06:33:13 PM
Quickest way to losing a fortune is that kind of attitude.
A fool and his money are easily parted.
Who on here is to say what we can and can't afford though? Nobody knows, so not that much point for either point of view to get worked up about it
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 06:35:00 PM
Quickest way to losing a fortune is that kind of attitude.
A fool and his money are easily parted.
I'm guessing that a multi-billionaire's accountant is no fool with his money. Just a guess.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
Who on here is to say what we can and can't afford though? Nobody knows, so not that much point for either point of view to get worked up about it
Worked up about it? No, I'm not. None of it's my money, and for sure the powers that be obviously know the finances better than me.
However, every bit of money that is continually wasted on hiring and firing managers means that less is invested in areas of the team and other areas. Look at Newcastle. They had a fair bit of cash in the 90s, but had a high turn over of managers which has impacted their growth both on the pitch and financially.
If we keep doing this through hiring the wrong manager, we will blast through a ton of money with nothing to show for it. At least with players you get a chunk of money back if they don't make it.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 06:39:31 PM
I'm guessing that a multi-billionaire's accountant is no fool with his money. Just a guess.
Trump's a multi billionaire too. Look at how many bankruptcy's he has to his name. Football is one of those bottomless pits.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 06:41:21 PM
Trump's a multi billionaire too. Look at how many bankruptcy's he has to his name. Football is one of those bottomless pits.
No, Moshiri is an accountant by trade. There's no similarities to be drawn here.
Post by: Macca77 on November 18, 2017, 06:44:15 PM
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 06:44:22 PM
No, Moshiri is an accountant by trade. There's no similarities to be drawn here.
And? You've never heard of accountants going bust? Of course the similarity can be drawn.
The point is, we need to make sure this next appointment is right and if it takes a while longer with Unsworth at the helm, then so be it.
Post by: Jamokachi on November 18, 2017, 06:55:15 PM
And? You've never heard of accountants going bust? Of course the similarity can be drawn.
The point is, we need to make sure this next appointment is right and if it takes a while longer with Unsworth at the helm, then so be it.
Of course, but the comparisons to that imbecile are silly.
And yes, we all want the next appointment to work out.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 07:10:58 PM
Of course, but the comparisons to that imbecile are silly.
And yes, we all want the next appointment to work out.
Not really.
But we need to be very careful. I'm glad it's taking time. We could have made a snap decision and just brought in someone like Moyes.
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 18, 2017, 07:22:01 PM
I'm guessing that a multi-billionaire's accountant is no fool with his money. Just a guess..
Post by: Gash on November 18, 2017, 07:28:38 PM
I don't really get the billionaire accountant argument either, many a wealthy, successful businessman has bought a football club and suddenly taken leave of their senses and seen it as a vanity project. I wouldn't say our spending under Moshiri has been that sensible. Fair enough he inherited Martinez and his contract but some of the other spending has been woeful for someone who's apparently savvy with money.
Post by: Waltzer on November 18, 2017, 07:34:57 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 18, 2017, 07:37:15 PM
You can now decide to pinch pennies because of past mistakes and end up with a manager nobody else would want. Or take your medicine.
I agree we need some serious organization-wide soul searching, though.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 07:40:40 PM
I don't think it's so much the fee for Silva more the money we've spent on managers over the last 18 months or so. People can argue that the PL is awash with money but all it's doing is driving up prices and salaries it doesn't mean that we have a bottomless pit of money to keep overspending on things, sooner or later we need to get our house in order.
I don't really get the billionaire accountant argument either, many a wealthy, successful businessman has bought a football club and suddenly taken leave of their senses and seen it as a vanity project. I wouldn't say our spending under Moshiri has been that sensible. Fair enough he inherited Martinez and his contract but some of the other spending has been woeful for someone who's apparently savvy with money.
That's the thing, because we've spent a ton in hiring and firing managers, if we keep doing so, it's going to get very costly. I probably wouldn't worry about spunking 10 million on someone proven like Simeone, but for someone who isn't anywhere near that bracket like Silva, you've really got to stop and think. Especially as he's only on a short term contract too. We spunk 10 million on him, and when he gets sacked in 12 months time, we're going to get screwed even more for the next manager we poach.
I get we have to overspend and invest, but it has to be done wisely.
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 18, 2017, 07:56:19 PM
My view is if we’re serious about challenging at the top then the only way we get there quickly is to pay over the odds. The next level aren’t going to come to us for footballing reasons, it’ll be financial. It’s taken teams like Chelsea and City years of overspending to get to where they are now, big clubs that people want to go to. I don’t know if Silva is the next level, but he will be the most important person at our club so I don’t think it’s excessive
You can't compare what we are doing with what Chelsea and City did. Those two clubs went all out for proven quality, overspending yes, but with a guarantee of success.
Post by: Gash on November 18, 2017, 08:05:02 PM
My view is if we’re serious about challenging at the top then the only way we get there quickly is to pay over the odds. The next level aren’t going to come to us for footballing reasons, it’ll be financial. It’s taken teams like Chelsea and City years of overspending to get to where they are now, big clubs that people want to go to. I don’t know if Silva is the next level, but he will be the most important person at our club so I don’t think it’s excessive
That's just it though, we've not even bought next level players in most cases, in fact we haven't even got 'adequate' replacements for a lot of the positions we were needing. Pickford and Keane I rate, Schneiderlin too but unless he picks up his form drastically he doesn't look next level. We've had our pants pulled down for Klaassen and Sigurdsson and Rooney's only going to have another 12-18 months left in him playing this regularly and even though I still rate him, he's no longer a 'next level' player. Sandro didn't cost much but is apparently on big money and definitely doesn't look next level. Vlasic has done alright but wouldn't say much better than alright. That's before we get into the likes of Williams and Cuco etc.
No disrespect to the them but in 18 months we've spent the thick end of £200m yet we've youngsters like DCL, Davies, Kenny, and Holgate all getting games on a regular basis. We've overpaid on 'decent' players, never mind next level ones.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 18, 2017, 08:33:54 PM
Silva is good, but i fear after 2 years with us, he will be looking at us as a stepping stone, he doesnt seem to care about sticking with a club..
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 18, 2017, 08:44:20 PM
i know i chose silva in the poll, but i ve changed my mind.. i'd rather have Tuchel or Simeone, until that point stick with Unsworth...
Silva is good, but i fear after 2 years with us, he will be looking at us as a stepping stone, he doesnt seem to care about sticking with a club..
That's the least of our worries regarding Silva. There is little evidence he is up to the job of manageing us yet.
Post by: blargins on November 18, 2017, 08:44:35 PM
i know i chose silva in the poll, but i ve changed my mind.. i'd rather have Tuchel or Simeone, until that point stick with Unsworth...
Silva is good, but i fear after 2 years with us, he will be looking at us as a stepping stone, he doesnt seem to care about sticking with a club..
That's my feeling of him. I know there's no loyalty in football, but this guy takes the piss.
I guess thinking about it, we probably wouldn't need to worry about paying his contract off as he'll move next chance he gets.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 18, 2017, 08:55:11 PM
That's the least of our worries regarding Silva. There is little evidence he is up to the job of manageing us yet.
i doubt he is, seems like another Martinez, which could be good, but i want us to defend like the dogs of war tag we had and attack like we did under Martinez..
That's my feeling of him. I know there's no loyalty in football, but this guy takes the piss.
I guess thinking about it, we probably wouldn't need to worry about paying his contract off as he'll move next chance he gets.
We can't build any sort of team with that, we need a manager who will offer us what we need plus longevity, build a squad team kind of like what Moyes did.
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 18, 2017, 09:59:55 PM
i know i chose silva in the poll, but i ve changed my mind.. i'd rather have Tuchel or Simeone, until that point stick with Unsworth...
Silva is good, but i fear after 2 years with us, he will be looking at us as a stepping stone, he doesnt seem to care about sticking with a club..
What makes you think he'd give us two years? If he comes, that'll be his last four clubs he's given less than a year.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 19, 2017, 12:00:41 AM
My view is if we're serious about challenging at the top then the only way we get there quickly is to pay over the odds. The next level aren't going to come to us for footballing reasons, it'll be financial. It's taken teams like Chelsea and City years of overspending to get to where they are now, big clubs that people want to go to. I don't know if Silva is the next level, but he will be the most important person at our club so I don't think it's excessiveTo use the City example. Man Utd offered Tevez a £140k p/w deal and City trumped that with £250k p/w to turn his head and get him to join them. This is after City finish 10th the previous season. For us to turn the head of a top player (I’ll use Sánchez as an example) that could comfortably earn £250k when he moves in the summer, we’d have to offer him about £400k I reckon. Just not possible.
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 08:57:37 AM
Watford want 15 million according to this. They can certainly keep him for that. I see nothing in him that justifies that outlay.
Post by: everton1952 on November 19, 2017, 02:13:00 PM
Post by: School of Science on November 19, 2017, 02:46:25 PM
Post by: ally2 on November 19, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watfords-marco-silva-faces-having-11544030
Watford want 15 million according to this. They can certainly keep him for that. I see nothing in him that justifies that outlay.
He'll resign probably, or the threat of it will bring down the fee. We need a manager though, and we'll have to pay for it.
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 19, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
His teams concede goals for fun
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 03:28:40 PM
Not even certain this chap is the best up and coming portugese chap (fonseca, avb, nuno santo, chap at benfica), nevermind the most promising coach in the world.
His teams concede goals for fun
Good point. If we open up the shortlist a little there are a few more that might come into the reckoning.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 19, 2017, 04:27:02 PM
Pulis will be available soon. Did anyone notice the gaps in their crowd yesterday, 23,000. My friend is a keen WBA fan and says he has ruined the club. As it seems a safe bet Silva is not coming, who else is available in the short term? Having read the condemnations of Unsworth's suitability on the match site thread, we need to make a choice very soon. Dyche must be a strong possibility.Your friend should be sucking his fucking cock for getting them 8th last season. It’s like when Charlton fans turned on Curbishley after they finish 7th - apparently he was ‘holding them back’. Little clubs should know their place.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 19, 2017, 05:51:58 PM
What makes you think he'd give us two years? If he comes, that'll be his last four clubs he's given less than a year.
Wishful thinking, I dont evn want him to come, but if we get 2 years lol, that would be a record for Silva :p
Post by: Macca77 on November 19, 2017, 06:00:44 PM
Post by: farnhamtoffee on November 19, 2017, 06:13:11 PM
Post by: Ross on November 19, 2017, 06:20:06 PM
One follows the other really and he’s not renowned for the former.
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 06:47:24 PM
Wishful thinking, I dont evn want him to come, but if we get 2 years lol, that would be a record for Silva :p
I think 3 seasons is his record at his first club, Estril or something.
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 07:36:05 PM
Post by: Mayor Farnum on November 19, 2017, 07:39:31 PM
If Allardyce is already speaking to West Brom, as I fear he probably is as they will shitting it about going down at the minute, then the 'available' list is getting shorter by the day. I hope we have some leftfield wow appointment lined up.
We haven't; hence our willingness to pay 10 million pounds for someone that has barely managed twenty Premier League games and been relegated in the meantime.
Post by: Ross on November 19, 2017, 07:47:28 PM
Post by: gizzblue on November 19, 2017, 07:51:48 PM
Your friend should be sucking his fucking cock for getting them 8th last season. It's like when Charlton fans turned on Curbishley after they finish 7th - apparently he was "holding them back'. Little clubs should know their place.A bit rich while we are lying near the bottom of the prem .no?.
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 07:55:35 PM
Think it’s time to remove the Greek league title from his plus column. Just seen Olympiacos have been champions 18 times out of the last 20 years.
Fair point.
Post by: Heisenberg on November 19, 2017, 08:02:06 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 19, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
If Allardyce is already speaking to West Brom, as I fear he probably is as they will shitting it about going down at the minute, then the 'available' list is getting shorter by the day. I hope we have some leftfield wow appointment lined up.
Allardyce and West Brom are a perfect match, both shite at everything they do
Post by: Ridge on November 19, 2017, 08:18:45 PM
There's a few ways to improve or change things, personnel, formation or reduced ambition.
Silva is not going to get big improvement from individuals, he's not a 3 at back manager, and style wise, he's ambitious.
Post by: Ross on November 19, 2017, 08:20:13 PM
Fair point.
The plus side is beginning to look a little light of substance.
Post by: Rhys on November 19, 2017, 08:26:18 PM
The average length of tenure for football league managers is now under a year, including the pl it's a year and a quarter. Watford have a policy of not really looking to keep managers longer than 2 years regardless how they do. Manages like guardiola in the past have said its hard to do longer than a 3 year cycle at a club because the players stop taking on messages after a certain point. Not many managers stay at clubs longer than 3 years now, simeone is one of the anomolies however even atletico are starting to slip a bit, concede more goals, win less games, points per game dropping etc.
I think we should stop worrying about whether a manager will want to be here for longer than 2 years and look to build something long term. If we got silva he is great for 2 years and moves on so be it, we get another good manager and try to move on from there.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 19, 2017, 08:27:23 PM
Allardyce and West Brom are a perfect match, both shite at everything they doPeople in glass houses...
Post by: kramer0 on November 19, 2017, 08:30:11 PM
I don't get the arguments about not wanting him as he'd probably want to leave in 2 years, or he's not done a long period at a club. Jose has never done more than 3 years anywhere but he's done well everywhere he has been to a point.
The average length of tenure for football league managers is now under a year, including the pl it's a year and a quarter. Watford have a policy of not really looking to keep managers longer than 2 years regardless how they do. Manages like guardiola in the past have said its hard to do longer than a 3 year cycle at a club because the players stop taking on messages after a certain point. Not many managers stay at clubs longer than 3 years now, simeone is one of the anomolies however even atletico are starting to slip a bit, concede more goals, win less games, points per game dropping etc.
I think we should stop worrying about whether a manager will want to be here for longer than 2 years and look to build something long term. If we got silva he is great for 2 years and moves on so be it, we get another good manager and try to move on from there.
Agreed. I think we need someone better, and more influential, than Walsh to make it work, though.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 19, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
People in glass houses...
Grow good tomatoes?
Post by: Brownie on November 19, 2017, 08:42:03 PM
Grow good tomatoes?
Shouldn't walk around naked?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 19, 2017, 09:02:16 PM
I don't get the arguments about not wanting him as he'd probably want to leave in 2 years, or he's not done a long period at a club. Jose has never done more than 3 years anywhere but he's done well everywhere he has been to a point.
The average length of tenure for football league managers is now under a year, including the pl it's a year and a quarter. Watford have a policy of not really looking to keep managers longer than 2 years regardless how they do. Manages like guardiola in the past have said its hard to do longer than a 3 year cycle at a club because the players stop taking on messages after a certain point. Not many managers stay at clubs longer than 3 years now, simeone is one of the anomolies however even atletico are starting to slip a bit, concede more goals, win less games, points per game dropping etc.
I think we should stop worrying about whether a manager will want to be here for longer than 2 years and look to build something long term. If we got silva he is great for 2 years and moves on so be it, we get another good manager and try to move on from there.
and surely if he moved on in 2 years time, what is left behind would be a lot more palatable than the ashes of, say, Sam Allardyce's "just keep 'em up and graft 10% off the top" short terming.
Post by: Rhys on November 19, 2017, 09:23:09 PM
and surely if he moved on in 2 years time, what is left behind would be a lot more palatable than the ashes of, say, Sam Allardyce's "just keep 'em up and graft 10% off the top" short terming.
It's like with west brom, when they sack pulis whoever takes over will take over a set of players who will have had probably on average 30-35% possession a game over a few year period. If they think the fans are bored of his style and want a manager who will play more football that's a tough job for someone to transform how a team play quickly who are so used to playing without the ball and focussed pretty much everything on defensive setup.
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 09:56:02 PM
I don't get the arguments about not wanting him as he'd probably want to leave in 2 years, or he's not done a long period at a club. Jose has never done more than 3 years anywhere but he's done well everywhere he has been to a point.
The average length of tenure for football league managers is now under a year, including the pl it's a year and a quarter. Watford have a policy of not really looking to keep managers longer than 2 years regardless how they do. Manages like guardiola in the past have said its hard to do longer than a 3 year cycle at a club because the players stop taking on messages after a certain point. Not many managers stay at clubs longer than 3 years now, simeone is one of the anomolies however even atletico are starting to slip a bit, concede more goals, win less games, points per game dropping etc.
I think we should stop worrying about whether a manager will want to be here for longer than 2 years and look to build something long term. If we got silva he is great for 2 years and moves on so be it, we get another good manager and try to move on from there.
That's true and I'm one of the ones concerned about his inability to stick around. If we get him, give him no more than a 2 year contract then.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 19, 2017, 10:02:15 PM
Got $200 on the Hammers winning this...
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 10:16:50 PM
I don't get the arguments about not wanting him as he'd probably want to leave in 2 years, or he's not done a long period at a club. Jose has never done more than 3 years anywhere but he's done well everywhere he has been to a point.
The average length of tenure for football league managers is now under a year, including the pl it's a year and a quarter. Watford have a policy of not really looking to keep managers longer than 2 years regardless how they do. Manages like guardiola in the past have said its hard to do longer than a 3 year cycle at a club because the players stop taking on messages after a certain point. Not many managers stay at clubs longer than 3 years now, simeone is one of the anomolies however even atletico are starting to slip a bit, concede more goals, win less games, points per game dropping etc.
I think we should stop worrying about whether a manager will want to be here for longer than 2 years and look to build something long term. If we got silva he is great for 2 years and moves on so be it, we get another good manager and try to move on from there.
I don't think anyone is arguing that point to be honest. I've read a few doubts about whether he might be the right man for the job but none really querying his past length of tenure (unless I haven't read back over the thread enough).
Post by: sam of the south on November 19, 2017, 10:17:08 PM
Also, for the goal, they really used the full width of the pitch, with both the winger and wing-back combining well, and they had the box filled with options for knock downs and rebounds.
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 10:19:14 PM
It's like with west brom, when they sack pulis whoever takes over will take over a set of players who will have had probably on average 30-35% possession a game over a few year period. If they think the fans are bored of his style and want a manager who will play more football that's a tough job for someone to transform how a team play quickly who are so used to playing without the ball and focussed pretty much everything on defensive setup.
Which makes it all the more important we have some kind of vision for the club as a whole. Some sort of identity of who we are as a club to ensure we have consistency of recruitment, both player and manager.
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 19, 2017, 10:27:11 PM
I don't get the arguments about not wanting him as he'd probably want to leave in 2 years, or he's not done a long period at a club. Jose has never done more than 3 years anywhere but he's done well everywhere he has been to a point.
The average length of tenure for football league managers is now under a year, including the pl it's a year and a quarter. Watford have a policy of not really looking to keep managers longer than 2 years regardless how they do. Manages like guardiola in the past have said its hard to do longer than a 3 year cycle at a club because the players stop taking on messages after a certain point. Not many managers stay at clubs longer than 3 years now, simeone is one of the anomolies however even atletico are starting to slip a bit, concede more goals, win less games, points per game dropping etc.
I think we should stop worrying about whether a manager will want to be here for longer than 2 years and look to build something long term. If we got silva he is great for 2 years and moves on so be it, we get another good manager and try to move on from there.
It's not two years though, if he comes he will have lasted less than a year at each of his last 4 clubs.
And all due respect to Guardiola but Alex Ferguson among others might beg to disagree.
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 19, 2017, 10:29:53 PM
"Watford - a club never seemingly more than a month or two away from sacking a manager - are battling to prevent boss Marco Silva from beinglured to Goodison Park.
"Silva has only been in charge for a dozen games, which include a 6-0 home defeat, a home defeat to a Championship side and losses in each of his last three games. He probably can't believe his luck."
Post by: sam of the south on November 19, 2017, 10:38:05 PM
Post by: Coyb12 on November 19, 2017, 10:47:24 PM
Post by: TheTone on November 19, 2017, 10:49:38 PM
Post by: boothill on November 19, 2017, 10:51:22 PM
If he does come I wouldn't mind him bringing Will Hughes with him; really busy, neat, excellent in tight spaces, and a forward-thinking playerHe reminds me of naysmith, both physically and in his style of play
Post by: American Evertonian on November 19, 2017, 10:53:37 PM
If he does come I wouldn't mind him bringing Will Hughes with him; really busy, neat, excellent in tight spaces, and a forward-thinking player
Was always surprised to see it take so long for Hughes to get signed by a PL club. Thought he could have made the jump from Derby two seasons ago.
I still think I would prefer Wagner to Silva though.
Post by: Rhys on November 19, 2017, 10:55:37 PM
It's not two years though, if he comes he will have lasted less than a year at each of his last 4 clubs.
And all due respect to Guardiola but Alex Ferguson among others might beg to disagree.
Football is very different model now. Not just football society is much more impatient and short term thinking. its getting rarer and rarer managers stay at clubs longer than 5 years, in an ideal world they do and I wish there wasn't the same impatience in general at clubs and they gave people more opportunities to show what they can do rather than people getting sacked in their first bad period, but I don't think it should be one of the important criteria for the next manager or manager after that if we think they will want to be here for a long long time. As you say it's more important to think is this the right person to take us on.
Post by: Rhys on November 19, 2017, 10:57:55 PM
Watching Watford here, they press well and in the right areas.
Also, for the goal, they really used the full width of the pitch, with both the winger and wing-back combining well, and they had the box filled with options for knock downs and rebounds.
Noticeable as well how many runners they are getting ahead of the ball in comparison to us. When they have possession they have got 4-6 people in and around the box. Of course that might have something to do with faith that when the ball goes into the attackers they won't lose it but they have plenty of options for a pass ahead of the midfield.
Post by: brap2 on November 19, 2017, 11:03:20 PM
Noticeable as well how many runners they are getting ahead of the ball in comparison to us. When they have possession they have got 4-6 people in and around the box. Of course that might have something to do with faith that when the ball goes into the attackers they won't lose it but they have plenty of options for a pass ahead of the midfield.
Yes we have a really nice mix at the moment of no one moving to receive the ball in attack and a defence that seem to consist entirely of wet bog roll.
Post by: blargins on November 19, 2017, 11:38:56 PM
If he does come I wouldn't mind him bringing Will Hughes with him; really busy, neat, excellent in tight spaces, and a forward-thinking player
He can battle his position out with Rooney, Sig, Klaassen, Barkley & Vlasic then.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 11:47:37 PM
I’d be more worried about his ability to shape a team defensively than whether or not he’d be off if a better job comes along.
One follows the other really and he’s not renowned for the former.
The irony of a Martinez fundamentalist suddenly getting precious about defensive organisation ;)
Post by: sam of the south on November 20, 2017, 12:00:56 AM
The irony of a Martinez fundamentalist suddenly getting precious about defensive organisation ;)
Haha, 'Martinez Fundamentalist' 😂
Post by: Lxxx on November 20, 2017, 12:05:09 AM
Haha, 'Martinez Fundamentalist' 😂
It was a bit messianic at times.
Post by: boothill on November 20, 2017, 12:08:17 AM
Haha, 'Martinez Fundamentalist' 😂Phenomenal
Post by: boothill on November 20, 2017, 12:09:25 AM
If he does come I wouldn't mind him bringing Will Hughes with him; really busy, neat, excellent in tight spaces, and a forward-thinking playerHe got motm him sam
Post by: stirlingblue on November 20, 2017, 12:13:06 AM
He mentioned that their slower, more technical players have struggled for game time under Silva so not sure what he would do with Sig/Rooney/Klaasen/Schneiderlin
Post by: AllyBlue14 on November 20, 2017, 12:13:25 AM
I don't trust his ability to organise a defence, but at least we might be able to have some kind of coherence going forward.
Other than some left-field option, the alternative is likely to be Dyche. So we basically have to decide whether we want to grind out 1-0s or be more expansive but risk conceding more often.
Post by: Ridge on November 20, 2017, 12:14:34 AM
Post by: Rhys on November 20, 2017, 12:16:08 AM
He got motm him sam
He did and did play very well. However for me best player on the pitch was doucoure he ran the game. Hardly ever out of position defensively but always seemed up with the attacks. Barely gave the ball away, hardly lost a battle, shows for the ball everywhere and didn't stop covering all the pitch for 98 minutes and drove forward with the ball, wasn't afraid to pick a hard forward pass. Looks a quality player.
Post by: boothill on November 20, 2017, 12:16:12 AM
Post by: sam of the south on November 20, 2017, 12:17:01 AM
He got motm him sam
Yes, richly deserved 👌🏼
Post by: sam of the south on November 20, 2017, 12:20:27 AM
Post by: Confucius on November 20, 2017, 12:40:51 AM
Post by: Ross on November 20, 2017, 12:49:32 AM
The irony of a Martinez fundamentalist suddenly getting precious about defensive organisation ;)
Well Koemans left us with a mess as an attacking force so the least we require is some defensive stability. At least before we looked an attacking threat, at the moment it seems we’re scoring by accident rather than design.
Post by: Confucius on November 20, 2017, 12:51:09 AM
Post by: Macca77 on November 20, 2017, 01:01:17 AM
Post by: ally2 on November 20, 2017, 01:04:09 AM
He can battle his position out with Rooney, Sig, Klaassen, Barkley & Vlasic then.
And Dowell
Post by: Ross on November 20, 2017, 01:05:07 AM
Post by: Macca77 on November 20, 2017, 01:06:58 AM
What did he say then?
Here you go Macca lad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42046772
Post by: ally2 on November 20, 2017, 01:12:02 AM
Post by: Ross on November 20, 2017, 01:19:13 AM
Best hair in the league
Wait till he’s been here a few months!
Post by: Escla on November 20, 2017, 01:24:55 AM
Here you go Macca lad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42046772
I like the way he talks !
Post by: TheRam on November 20, 2017, 01:29:20 AM
Best hair in the league
Have we ever had a manager with good hair?
Post by: blargins on November 20, 2017, 01:32:57 AM
Have we ever had a manager with good hair?Moyse?
Post by: benny on November 20, 2017, 01:48:52 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 20, 2017, 01:50:54 AM
Whether it's him, or he is the face of royle it's not happening for me
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 20, 2017, 04:30:22 AM
Spoke to a Watford fan today about him, he wasn't bitter about him potentially moving to a 'bigger' club but he said he was surprised that we were looking at Silva given our squad.Yep, he usually likes strong, quick players with bags of stamina. He’ll want a whole new team here.
He mentioned that their slower, more technical players have struggled for game time under Silva so not sure what he would do with Sig/Rooney/Klaasen/Schneiderlin
Not saying I think he’s the best option but Dyche would be the best fit for the squad we have.
Post by: Sixx1402 on November 20, 2017, 04:37:00 AM
Not a massive silva fan, he's done OK. Unsworth looks out of his depth tho
Whether it's him, or he is the face of royle it's not happening for me
Yeah i was all for Unsy until the end of the season when Koeman left but it looks like he can't sort it out, we'd be in real danger of relegation
Post by: Ridge on November 20, 2017, 04:53:55 AM
Find it a bit strange why people seem to be expecting Unsworth to perform instant miracles.
But concern with Silva is defence has been issue at both clubs, and he had chance to buy players. He's had some heavy defeats.
I don't see our problem as needing to be more attacking, and I'm not sure we have personnel to outscore teams.
Post by: blargins on November 20, 2017, 05:12:52 AM
But very little will change until we strengthen in the areas we need.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 20, 2017, 05:30:47 AM
I’m hoping we appoint a manager based on future aspirations.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 20, 2017, 05:32:47 AM
i wish we dont get him. im not sure he knows how to defend lol ;/
Post by: Bluedylan on November 20, 2017, 05:49:33 AM
hearing there's a new bid coming in for him tomorrow, supposed to be between 13 and 15 mil.
i wish we dont get him. im not sure he knows how to defend lol ;/
There's nowt funny in that post.
Post by: kewns23 on November 20, 2017, 05:54:48 AM
Let’s get behind him and enjoy the ride
Cos we all know he’ll be shite next season lol
Post by: Shogun on November 20, 2017, 05:56:42 AM
Post by: therealdunc on November 20, 2017, 06:01:33 AM
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 20, 2017, 06:04:35 AM
Unfortunately, I think a new manager is only 50% of our problem. There are issues behind the scenes that even a new manager can't solve.
Post by: MrWhite on November 20, 2017, 09:51:21 AM
If we get a new manager, we'll have the same issues and possibly some new ones. But they'll get time to understand and improve things.
Find it a bit strange why people seem to be expecting Unsworth to perform instant miracles.
But concern with Silva is defence has been issue at both clubs, and he had chance to buy players. He's had some heavy defeats.
I don't see our problem as needing to be more attacking, and I'm not sure we have personnel to outscore teams.
It’s not really strange. Modern culture, smart phones, internet etc has led to a state of:
He’s had five games, should have at least two trophies in the bag by now?
Oh for a Realist.. hmm or maybe not
Post by: GLewis on November 20, 2017, 11:53:55 AM
Our options are limited and I don't know why people are so fearful and would prefer us hoofing it to the big man under the other managers available.The non existent big man as well.
Can’t think that a good coach, with time to work on a system that they thinks will work, wouldn’t think that they can vastly improve the attacking performances even if we’ve some unbalances.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 20, 2017, 12:36:46 PM
If we get a manager based on getting the best out of the players we currently have we may as well call it a day.Agree. I think the fans have now realised we’re in this mess because the players aren’t good enough. The new manager will have to salvage what he can from this squad and bring in what he needs ASAP.
I'm hoping we appoint a manager based on future aspirations.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 20, 2017, 01:08:36 PM
Without the bit where Martinez disassembles the coherent defensive unit obviously.......
So perhaps Dyche is the best option short term to sort out the mess?
Post by: Jamokachi on November 20, 2017, 01:29:25 PM
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/groundhog-day-history.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all)
Post by: Paddockoldie on November 20, 2017, 02:25:07 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 20, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
I'd like the new manager to be the one who does the transfers and looks at the player before buying him. The DOF doesn't seem to be working here, perhaps because of that disconnect? Did Walsh decide we needed Siggy or was it Koeman as an example. Our best buys were by Moyes who has total say after players were scouted. This got us Coleman, Arteta and Cahill. He was known for being able to unearth great players for little outlay. If I was going to buy my missus a nice present I wouldn't ask someone who doesn't know her well to choose it for me because they're more likely to pick something she doesn't like even though it may be a nice thing.. hope that makes sense (does to me but I know her.. oh boy!!!)
Transfers, just like managerial appointments are a real gamble and whilst I agree about Coleman, Artea and Cahill (who couldnt), there was also the Bilyaletdinov, Koldrup, van der Meyde. I think Moyes got a lot more plaudits due to the financial constraints he was working under but I bet there were more 'Coleman' type transfers that went pear shaped that we never heard much about?
I also dont think our recruitment was that bad when you break it down, we got Englands future keeper and centre back, Vlasic who looks quality (why Unsworth doesnt even have him in the squad is beyond me), Lookman, DCL, Sigurdsson who is proven quality. We took a punt on Sandro, but in todays market there probably isnt anyone that wouldnt have done that. Yes, not getting a striker was neglect at the highest level, but I do think were only a few players off having a very decent team again.
Post by: Lxxx on November 20, 2017, 03:42:15 PM
Transfers, just like managerial appointments are a real gamble and whilst I agree about Coleman, Artea and Cahill (who couldnt), there was also the Bilyaletdinov, Koldrup, van der Meyde. I think Moyes got a lot more plaudits due to the financial constraints he was working under but I bet there were more 'Coleman' type transfers that went pear shaped that we never heard much about?
I also dont think our recruitment was that bad when you break it down, we got Englands future keeper and centre back, Vlasic who looks quality (why Unsworth doesnt even have him in the squad is beyond me), Lookman, DCL, Sigurdsson who is proven quality. We took a punt on Sandro, but in todays market there probably isnt anyone that wouldnt have done that. Yes, not getting a striker was neglect at the highest level, but I do think were only a few players off having a very decent team again.
We could get a few quid from offloading the likes of Schneiderlin, Mirallas and Klaassan to put towards a decent striker and left back. Barkley will be off too so there's his January fee into the pot towards a new centre half. There's a lot in there to assist with the inevitable purchases that will have to come when any new manager comes in.
Post by: Waltzer on November 20, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
We could get a few quid from offloading the likes of Schneiderlin, Mirallas and Klaassan to put towards a decent striker and left back. Barkley will be off too so there's his January fee into the pot towards a new centre half. There's a lot in there to assist with the inevitable purchases that will have to come when any new manager comes in.
Personally id keep Schneiderlin as I think he is a good player, we just need to get the right players around him, id also be inclined to give Klaassan 6 months under the new manager. Think Mirallas will be off and Barkley so that should be best part of £25 million you'd like to think
Post by: Macca77 on November 20, 2017, 04:35:15 PM
We could get a few quid from offloading the likes of Schneiderlin, Mirallas and Klaassan to put towards a decent striker and left back. Barkley will be off too so there's his January fee into the pot towards a new centre half. There's a lot in there to assist with the inevitable purchases that will have to come when any new manager comes in.
Klaassan is shit hot on FIFA 18
Post by: brap2 on November 20, 2017, 04:43:01 PM
Klaassan is shit hot on FIFA 18
He’s a baller on PES as well.
I think he’s a good player we just aren’t using him very wel and he probably hasn’t settled.
We bought sigurdssson, Klaassen, Rooney and Sandro - 4 players who’s careers have been all about working around a main striker. Arriving late in the box, picking up knock downs etc. All 4 good goalscorers.
But we didn’t get the technical number 9 we needed. That was clearly the plan and for whatever reason it didn’t happen so, whether the new man will see the same picture, or whether he’ll have his own ideas we’ll just have to wait and see.
Not writing any of the signings off yet, although I’m less than impressed with basically all of them - I do agree they will all need time and we need to see what they can do in a team that isn’t an absolute state.
Post by: TheRam on November 20, 2017, 05:33:10 PM
Post by: brap2 on November 20, 2017, 05:37:02 PM
I think klassen could well offer more than Sigurdsson is at the moment.
Was he bad at the weekend? Got an assist like.
Post by: Waltzer on November 20, 2017, 05:37:24 PM
He’s a baller on PES as well.
I think he’s a good player we just aren’t using him very wel and he probably hasn’t settled.
We bought sigurdssson, Klaassen, Rooney and Sandro - 4 players who’s careers have been all about working around a main striker. Arriving late in the box, picking up knock downs etc. All 4 good goalscorers.
But we didn’t get the technical number 9 we needed. That was clearly the plan and for whatever reason it didn’t happen so, whether the new man will see the same picture, or whether he’ll have his own ideas we’ll just have to wait and see.
Not writing any of the signings off yet, although I’m less than impressed with basically all of them - I do agree they will all need time and we need to see what they can do in a team that isn’t an absolute state.
A lot of what you said was my reason why I thought it was wrong to sack Koeman, we'd invested so much effort and resource into a system, his system, but failed to get the final piece of the jigsaw, a striker. I honestly believe if we did get a proper number 9 in we'd be competing at the right end of the table, imo we should have kept hold until after the Jan transfer window minimum, sacking Koeman has put £140 millions worth of transfers in jeopardy.
I know people will say we'd have got relegated, and ill agree our form wasn't great, but we'll never no now what would have happened but I thought given the options available Koeman was our best option
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 20, 2017, 06:23:55 PM
I think klassen could well offer more than Sigurdsson is at the moment.
I'm inclined to disagree.
Post by: Lxxx on November 20, 2017, 07:17:19 PM
I think klassen could well offer more than Sigurdsson is at the moment.
Nah not having that. At the minute I'm not sure Klaassan could offer anything we need. If we were playing free flowing football he might, at a push, be a nice little cog in a well oiled machine but as we can't string two passes together we need players who have individual attributes to get something moving.
Post by: brap2 on November 20, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
A lot of what you said was my reason why I thought it was wrong to sack Koeman, we'd invested so much effort and resource into a system, his system, but failed to get the final piece of the jigsaw, a striker. I honestly believe if we did get a proper number 9 in we'd be competing at the right end of the table, imo we should have kept hold until after the Jan transfer window minimum, sacking Koeman has put £140 millions worth of transfers in jeopardy.
I know people will say we'd have got relegated, and ill agree our form wasn't great, but we'll never no now what would have happened but I thought given the options available Koeman was our best option
It’s why I held on to Koeman for so long, alongside the tough start to the season, but it had gone past the point of no return where it was clear yeah the recruitment had fucked us up but there was no point holding onto the plan and we needed to get a plan b sorted ASAP.
I think we may well have been relegated, and I don’t think we’re any further away from that point to be honest right now.
Even if we get silva in there’s zero guarantees in football. In fact the closest thing to a guarantee is probably big sam, whose been universally rejected.
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 20, 2017, 07:18:17 PM
Post by: Ridge on November 20, 2017, 07:44:20 PM
I think klassen could well offer more than Sigurdsson is at the moment.
I think Klaassen will prove to be the better signing, but can understand why he's behind Sig.
Sig's main skill is his delivery, set pieces and when given space to address ball and cross. While he's not used to team mates, he's at least used to speed and physical nature of the league.
Klaassen has great movement and interplay, but you need to build understanding with familiar players, before you can play 1-2s, or help build play. Add to that difficulty of adapting to league, trying to work his way towards a central role in team. Think we won't see best of him any time soon.
Post by: Ridge on November 20, 2017, 07:53:08 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 20, 2017, 07:59:12 PM
It’s why I held on to Koeman for so long, alongside the tough start to the season, but it had gone past the point of no return where it was clear yeah the recruitment had fucked us up but there was no point holding onto the plan and we needed to get a plan b sorted ASAP.
I think we may well have been relegated, and I don’t think we’re any further away from that point to be honest right now.
Even if we get silva in there’s zero guarantees in football. In fact the closest thing to a guarantee is probably big sam, whose been universally rejected.
I'd still rather have Koeman than Unsworth in charge, I always said it'd be a rough ride until January, regardless of who we got in and I dont think thats changed. I just think this change of direction, which there appears to be if Silva is our target, highlights to me that our board, or decision maker really doesnt have a clear plan, or dont think that far ahead.
Post by: Hawkandro on November 20, 2017, 08:00:13 PM
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 20, 2017, 08:05:50 PM
There's nowt funny in that post.
i know,
Post by: Lxxx on November 20, 2017, 08:06:24 PM
If we don't get Silva now, we've shafted Watford and their fans opinion of him. So that's nice
Shouldn't even be a consideration. Watford should never be seen in the same breath as Everton when it comes to aspirations, however such has been our fall this season that might not be the case.
Post by: Ridge on November 20, 2017, 08:15:39 PM
Shouldn't even be a consideration. Watford should never be seen in the same breath as Everton when it comes to aspirations, however such has been our fall this season that might not be the case.
They are 1 of 19 rivals this season, reputation and 'big club' status guarantees nothing.
They are ahead of us in league, so if it helps, its no time for excessive pride or resentment, it could prove to be beneficial to us.
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 20, 2017, 09:42:39 PM
Post by: School of Science on November 20, 2017, 09:47:16 PM
Like they said about Dyche on NBC why go to Everton?
More money, much more potential, bigger crowds and historically a much bigger and better club mate, oh with a new ground on the Mersey to come. Apart from that little else.
Post by: bacon sarnie on November 20, 2017, 09:50:34 PM
More money, much more potential, bigger crowds and historically a much bigger and better club mate, oh with a new ground on the Mersey to come. Apart from that little else.
Ta SoS la. Is what I yelled at the screen. Ignorant bastards!
Post by: everton1952 on November 20, 2017, 09:59:53 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 20, 2017, 10:03:15 PM
Silva is doing everything right, he will not rock the Watford boat, so he ain't coming to us. (not that I care very much). With Unsie's prospects widely trashed on here, who should we realistically hope to get? Is Pardew worse than Silva? Midland sources say WBA will appoint a manger this week with minimum delay. It might be embarrassing but I would go for Dyche, as Burnley could not refuse.
He has a 2 million buy out clause so there is nothing they could do if he wanted to go. If I was Dyche though id think it was a bit of a piss take and would be reluctant to go, its so easy for us to get him its clear he isnt really an option or anywhere near the top of our list.
Post by: everton1952 on November 20, 2017, 10:08:56 PM
Post by: Waltzer on November 20, 2017, 10:16:10 PM
No he has not got such a clause. Why did you say that? Which managers likely to come are nearer the top of our list than Dyche.
I only said it as its been reported everywhere, not making things up, although I did getthe figure wrong though, but 3.5 million isnt much
Sean Dyche’s Burnley release clause revealed
On Saturday, Matt Hughes of The Times has revealed that if Everton do want Sean Dyche they will have to pay a 3.5 million pound release clause.
Dyche is reportedly on a one-year rolling contract at Burnley, where he earns 3 million pounds per season.
Any club looking to sign Dyche, will have to pay the 3.5 million pound release clause, according to the terms of his Burnley contract.
Post by: blargins on November 20, 2017, 10:20:49 PM
Silva is doing everything right, he will not rock the Watford boat, so he ain't coming to us. (not that I care very much). With Unsie's prospects widely trashed on here, who should we realistically hope to get? Is Pardew worse than Silva? Midland sources say WBA will appoint a manger this week with minimum delay. It might be embarrassing but I would go for Dyche, as Burnley could not refuse.
I think I would prefer Dyche at 3.5 million compared with Silva at 15 million. I don't either will bring us any glory, but Dyche should be able to make us solid again which is what we need to be right now. I don't think Silva would give us that.
Dyche on a similar contract to what he's on at Burnley would be the best option that I can see right now seeing as top managers are out of the equation.
Post by: everton1952 on November 20, 2017, 10:21:43 PM
Post by: therealdunc on November 20, 2017, 10:27:25 PM
Paying for a manager who got a team relegated
Moshiri is an idiot
I do wonder would moshiri be so reckless and careless as he has at Everton if he was spending his own money?
Post by: MrWhite on November 20, 2017, 10:31:16 PM
Silva aint happening is itMaybe in the summer. I’d be amazed if it happened soon.
Post by: Alanvideo on November 20, 2017, 10:32:12 PM
Post by: MrWhite on November 20, 2017, 10:33:56 PM
If we don't get Silva now, we've shafted Watford and their fans opinion of him. So that's niceNaah they were showing him the love against West Ham.
Post by: D15TIN on November 20, 2017, 11:12:42 PM
Silva is doing everything right, he will not rock the Watford boat, so he ain't coming to us. (not that I care very much). With Unsie's prospects widely trashed on here, who should we realistically hope to get? Is Pardew worse than Silva? Midland sources say WBA will appoint a manger this week with minimum delay. It might be embarrassing but I would go for Dyche, as Burnley could not refuse.Yep Dyche 100%, Dyche is more what we need in the situation were in right now.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 20, 2017, 11:52:41 PM
Another Everton 1st on the way
Paying for a manager who got a team relegated
Err Martinez?
Post by: GoodisonPk on November 21, 2017, 12:06:26 AM
Post by: Escla on November 21, 2017, 12:13:35 AM
This is a shambles. We have money but can't get a manager.
Patience ! Rather get the guy we want than panic buy, we're not going to finish top 6 and we're not going to get relegated so chill.
Post by: Shogun on November 21, 2017, 12:15:25 AM
Another Everton 1st on the way
Paying for a manager who got a team relegated
Moshiri is an idiot
I do wonder would moshiri be so reckless and careless as he has at Everton if he was spending his own money?
Dyche?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 21, 2017, 12:25:31 AM
Patience ! Rather get the guy we want than panic buy, we're not going to finish top 6 and we're not going to get relegated so chill.Silva’s not coming so we’ll have to settle anyway
Post by: Escla on November 21, 2017, 12:41:36 AM
Silva’s not coming so we’ll have to settle anywayI'd rather that than say o.k, we can't get Silva so let's go for Dyche/Pulis/Allardyce etc. I'm sure there are other options out there in Europe and we may well have had some initial discussions with one or two of them, we have no idea who the club have spoken to other than Silva so just get behind Unsy for however long it takes to get a decent manager in.
Post by: therealdunc on November 21, 2017, 01:16:20 AM
Err Martinez?
I was under the impression that rather than simply pay out his contract we had offered Watford more money to release him?
Post by: Macca77 on November 21, 2017, 03:32:31 AM
https://twitter.com/TheKendallEnd/status/932703593035190272
Post by: Waltzer on November 21, 2017, 03:45:09 AM
Im calling bullshitYep, can't see it being true at all
https://twitter.com/TheKendallEnd/status/932703593035190272
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 21, 2017, 05:43:15 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 21, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
https://twitter.com/richardajkeys/status/932900681664614400
The first reply to this has just killed me off
https://twitter.com/happyhammers69/status/932901912353140736
Post by: TheRam on November 21, 2017, 06:55:40 PM
Twitter is great
Post by: boothill on November 21, 2017, 07:04:17 PM
HahaI know its wrong, but i cant stop laughing at the 1 last night, he said he met charles manson at a party. Some of the replies were amazing
Twitter is great
Post by: Macca77 on November 21, 2017, 07:30:13 PM
Haha
Twitter is great
Brilliant isn't it, was giggling like a tit when I first saw it, had to leave my desk for a bit to compose myself
Post by: blargins on November 22, 2017, 01:08:47 AM
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on November 22, 2017, 02:29:42 AM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 22, 2017, 02:35:00 AM
Guess it must be one of those clique jokes that mean nothing to us outsiders.
Richard Keys is a notoriously hairy man. It's nothing more complicated than that.
Post by: School of Science on November 22, 2017, 02:35:02 AM
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 22, 2017, 02:39:02 AM
Wouldn't get away with that on tv these days.
Post by: Cozzie on November 22, 2017, 03:26:46 AM
It's just banter Keysie!
Post by: Tinga on November 23, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
Great..
Post by: Macca77 on November 23, 2017, 08:46:00 PM
Quote
Silva refuses to comment on Everton speculation
Newcastle United v Watford (Saturday, 15:00 GMT)
Marco Silva has been repeatedly linked with the Everton job, but the Watford manager is certainly not in the mood to give any information away today.
"I will answer straight, I'm here to talk about our match, Newcastle v Watford and nothing more," says Silva.
"I won't give one more word about this situation. Newcastle-Watford. If you want I will answer 10 or 20 questions for you on that.
"The most important thing for me is Newcastle-Watford. The fans know what is most important for us. We are fully focused on our next game."
Post by: everton1952 on November 23, 2017, 09:21:58 PM
Post by: BlueMaquis on December 05, 2017, 08:30:59 AM
Quote
Watford manager Marco Silva says Everton boss Sam Allardyce's comparison of the pair's track record "does not make sense".
Everton failed in an approach for Silva before appointing the ex-England boss.
Allardyce, 63, said Silva's record had no comparison with his as "he got Hull City relegated last season".
"Go and see what he [Allardyce] was doing when he was 40 years old, or see what he was doing in his first seven seasons as a coach" said Silva.
"Then look at what I am doing at the same age - or you can wait until I am 63 years old, and then we can compare what I have done."
Silva started his managerial career with Estoril and guided them to promotion into Portugal's top division before joining Sporting and leading them to Portuguese Cup success in 2015.
He moved to Olympiakos and claimed a Champions League group-stage victory at Arsenal in September 2015 in a season which ended with him guiding the side to the Greek top-flight title.
Allardyce began his managerial career as player-manager of League of Ireland side Limerick in 1991 aged 36 and he led them into the Republic of Ireland's top flight after winning the first division.
He went on to become caretaker manager of Preston before becoming Blackpool boss just before his 40th birthday.
"I read what he said, but when he made this comparison it does not make sense," added Silva, speaking to the Mirror.
"It's like me comparing the five goals [Watford forward] Richarlison has scored in the Premier League with [Stoke striker] Peter Crouch.
"Crouch is nearly 37, Richarlison is 20 - Crouch has played so many games and Richarlison far less."
Have to say I think Silva is wrong here. He thinks Sam is judging him, but it's really about his suitability for the position.
It just seems a bit of an oversensitive thing to say. Not too fussed we didn't get him based on these comments.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 05, 2017, 11:11:46 AM
Have to say I think Silva is wrong here. He thinks Sam is judging him, but it's really about his suitability for the position.
It just seems a bit of an oversensitive thing to say. Not too fussed we didn't get him based on these comments.
Nah, Sam was judging him and was massively on the defensive, referencing Silva's relegation with Hull for no reason at all. He does have a massive chip on his shoulder about the way he's perceived (the 'Allerdici' thing), rightly or wrongly.
Post by: BlueMaquis on December 05, 2017, 11:57:21 AM
Nah, Sam was judging him and was massively on the defensive, referencing Silva's relegation with Hull for no reason at all. He does have a massive chip on his shoulder about the way he's perceived (the 'Allerdici' thing), rightly or wrongly.
You don't think a relegation on your CV is relevant when appointing someone to escape relegation? I seem to recall quite a few people on this very forum worried about his Hull relegation, so it's not just Sam.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 05, 2017, 12:43:05 PM
You don't think a relegation on your CV is relevant when appointing someone to escape relegation? I seem to recall quite a few people on this very forum worried about his Hull relegation, so it's not just Sam.
No but it was the way Sam said it. Like he was waiting to set the record straight about not being appreciated like sexy, younger, European managers. He'd have been better not rising to the bait, but he can't resist.
Post by: GLewis on December 05, 2017, 01:03:27 PM
No but it was the way Sam said it. Like he was waiting to set the record straight about not being appreciated like sexy, younger, European managers. He'd have been better not rising to the bait, but he can't resist.
Similarly Silva, it seems!
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
Post by: Lxxx on December 05, 2017, 02:54:46 PM
Post by: GLewis on December 05, 2017, 03:01:35 PM
Think Silva was well within his right to mention something and what he said was reasonable. He didn't start this debate, it was our new manager trying to get on the front foot for no reason which kicked it off. It was in poor taste and totally unnecessary.
Both sticking up for each other’s point of view / career.
Allardyce would have been asked direct about Silva (in comparison to himself), as in “you’re not as good”.
Doesn’t need to respond (like that) but then neither does Silva.
It’s not a big deal, I don’t think.
Post by: Lxxx on December 05, 2017, 03:10:42 PM
Both sticking up for each other’s point of view / career.
Allardyce would have been asked direct about Silva (in comparison to himself), as in “you’re not as good”.
Doesn’t need to respond (like that) but then neither does Silva.
It’s not a big deal, I don’t think.
It's not a big deal but it clearly sets a tone which was completely unnecessary. The perception of Allardyce as having a fairly large chip on his shoulder has been reinforced within days of starting a new job and he's experienced enough to know better. I didn't like the man when he wasn't our boss and acting like a petulant kid at 63 years old isn't a great way of ingratiating yourself to your new fanbase. Of course I'm slightly biased.
Post by: Jamokachi on December 05, 2017, 03:28:16 PM
Post by: MrWhite on December 05, 2017, 04:25:02 PM
They're both only responding to loaded questions from the media. No need for there to be a song and dance.
That's a fair comment. I often get quite irritated by the way the press questions are not included with the widely reported quotes of what people say. Context is king.
Post by: Jamokachi on December 05, 2017, 04:31:31 PM
That's a fair comment. I often get quite irritated by the way the press questions are not included with the widely reported quotes of what people say. Context is king.
Reporter: So, Sam. Everton wanted Silva. What makes you the better man for the job?
Sam: Well I didn't get Hull relegated...
Reporter writes: Big Sam calls out Little Silva, calls him a nonce.
Silva: Fuck you Big Sam, you dinosaur. Peter Crouch is a God.
Peter Crouch: <sings> Like a virgin... touched for the very first time <sings>
*I may or may not be paraphrasing here.
Post by: MrWhite on December 05, 2017, 04:39:02 PM
Reporter: So, Sam. Everton wanted Silva. What makes you the better man for the job?
Sam: Well I didn't get Hull relegated...
Reporter writes: Big Sam calls out Little Silva, calls him a nonce.
Silva: Fuck you Big Sam, you dinosaur. Peter Crouch is a God.
Peter Crouch: <sings> Like a virgin... touched for the very first time <sings>
*I may or may not be paraphrasing here.
If there is one certainty, it is that all headlines are paraphrasing what actually happened. Mostly depending on who the press are trying to provoke into an emotional reaction.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on December 13, 2017, 04:21:47 AM
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on December 13, 2017, 05:22:43 AM
Post by: blargins on December 13, 2017, 06:59:12 AM
He'll get found out this year, complete bullet dodged.
He might come good, but he was always the wrong man for us. Glad we have someone who knows what they're doing in right now. Stability is exactly what we need. Silva would not provide that.
Post by: Waltzer on December 13, 2017, 12:58:55 PM
He'll get found out this year, complete bullet dodged.Not sure, I think Watford is a nightmare club and that's the reason he wanted out when things were going well. I wanted Silva, but I'm also happy with how Sam is doing, that said I wouldn't be too upset if we got Fonseca I during the summer, the football his team plays is great to watch
Post by: Rodenplav64 on December 13, 2017, 02:30:28 PM
Post by: everton1952 on December 13, 2017, 03:55:41 PM
Christ on a fucking bike .****
Post by: Mayor Farnum on December 13, 2017, 07:00:03 PM
Christ on a fucking bike .
He's always cycling Him. No wonder He's lived so long.
Post by: Macca77 on December 13, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
Christ on a fucking bike .
(http://broadwaybaby.com/img/shows/edinburgh-fringe/unclassified/21015.jpg)
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 13, 2017, 07:32:13 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 16, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 16, 2017, 10:24:03 PM
Where's everyone who was so insistent we get Silva now?
Honestly, it's as if we hadn't already tried out having a manager who can't defend for shit and whose only PL achievement is getting a club relegated.
Post by: TheRam on December 16, 2017, 10:44:22 PM
Losing 3-0 now at home to Huddersfield, a team that have scored about 2.6 goals all season.
Where's everyone who was so insistent we get Silva now?
Honestly, it's as if we hadn't already tried out having a manager who can't defend for shit and whose only PL achievement is getting a club relegated.
They're probably out enjoying their Saturday.
Post by: gizzblue on December 16, 2017, 10:46:44 PM
Losing 3-0 now at home to Huddersfield, a team that have scored about 2.6 goals all season.Out with all the Koeman worshippers....he'd still be here if it was up to them.
Where's everyone who was so insistent we get Silva now?
Honestly, it's as if we hadn't already tried out having a manager who can't defend for shit and whose only PL achievement is getting a club relegated.
Post by: everton1952 on December 16, 2017, 11:19:57 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 16, 2017, 11:35:31 PM
Post by: blargins on December 16, 2017, 11:41:15 PM
Our manager should always, as a law, be good looking and well dressed
Apart from perhaps Martinez, when has that ever happened? lol
Post by: blargins on December 16, 2017, 11:41:52 PM
He was loved and wanted on here because he is Portuguese, and very good looking, and well rather like Mourinho. Of course Watford might end up 8th and us 15th but I doubt it.
I think Mourinho looks like a child.
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 16, 2017, 11:54:06 PM
Apart from perhaps Martinez, when has that ever happened? lolGoing forward
Post by: Crackling on December 16, 2017, 11:58:16 PM
And yes, he is very good looking.
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 17, 2017, 12:29:29 AM
A high quality manager should be able to get near the top of the pile of that shit heap.
Post by: School of Science on December 17, 2017, 12:29:29 AM
I think Mourinho looks like a child.
Why not he sure acts like one.
Post by: blargins on December 17, 2017, 12:34:20 AM
Why not he sure acts like one.
I think that's why I don't think he's particularly good looking or whatever. Funny how a personality can make the most attractive person unattractive. But of course a lot of it's probably just an act.
Post by: School of Science on December 17, 2017, 12:55:29 AM
I think that's why I don't think he's particularly good looking or whatever. Funny how a personality can make the most attractive person unattractive. But of course a lot of it's probably just an act.
Funny whether people are seen as good looking or not, it just shows beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. My missus always says about Mourhino, " He looks like he could do with a good wash". Don't actually think she wants to bath him.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 17, 2017, 01:01:49 AM
Why not he sure acts like one.
Probably won't get many agreeing with me but I have my doubts he's a top manager anymore. The things he used to play up to he actually became. He's just trouble now and I think he did very average jobs at real Chelsea (the last time) and now Utd
Post by: School of Science on December 17, 2017, 01:29:24 AM
Probably won't get many agreeing with me but I have my doubts he's a top manager anymore. The things he used to play up to he actually became. He's just trouble now and I think he did very average jobs at real Chelsea (the last time) and now Utd
He does seem to have lost some of his magic, just seems to complain a lot more and by the looks of Man City tonight, will be a long time before he wins the premier league again. City just look to be on another planet to everyone else atm.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 17, 2017, 01:50:28 AM
He does seem to have lost some of his magic, just seems to complain a lot more and by the looks of Man City tonight, will be a long time before he wins the premier league again. City just look to be on another planet to everyone else atm.
City look like they've bridged the gap to the top sides in Europe. They could win the champions league this season. Miles ahead of everyone else now.
Post by: everton1952 on December 17, 2017, 02:14:05 AM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on December 17, 2017, 03:36:46 AM
Post by: blue slug on December 17, 2017, 03:51:28 AM
City look like they've bridged the gap to the top sides in Europe. They could win the champions league this season. Miles ahead of everyone else now.
They really have improved massively on last season and pep deserves credit for that
Oh he’s pretty good looking to
Post by: blargins on December 17, 2017, 04:20:59 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on December 17, 2017, 05:35:08 AM
Post by: ally2 on December 17, 2017, 05:36:41 AM
Post by: Alanvideo on December 17, 2017, 05:41:49 AM
I think our pursuit of Silva has massively affected Watford's recent performance. His head was turned, and the players know it..............once Everton has touched you.............
Post by: gizzblue on December 17, 2017, 06:00:13 AM
.............once Everton has touched you.............Not in a Weinstein , Dustin Hoffman, Len faircloughie type of way.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on December 31, 2017, 03:44:55 AM
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:01:07 PM
Very lucky not to get him. And he would have cost a fortune as well.
Big Sam might be far from perfect, but I am so glad we didn't get Silva. Just a poor man's Roberto Martinez.
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:02:21 PM
Instead we've got this hoof ball merchant who hasn't won anything in 30 years of management.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 09:09:46 PM
Still a good manager and will prove it in the long run.
Based on what exactly, other than absolutely nothing of course?
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:14:22 PM
Based on what exactly, other than absolutely nothing of course?
His work with Estoril taking them from the second division to 5th and then 4th in the top tier on a shoe string budget.
Winning 28/30 matches to win the league with Olympiakos.
Taking a largely talentless squad like Hull and getting them playing great football despite losing their star player (Snodgrass) and acquiring more points in his 18 matches there and 6 other premier league teams.
Made a strong start to his Watford career but let's not pretend they're a great squad who should be anything more than midtable.
He's a talented manager who has already won more than Sam Allardyce.
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:16:37 PM
His work with Estoril taking them from the second division to 5th and then 4th in the top tier on a shoe string budget.
Winning 28/30 matches to win the league with Olympiakos.
Taking a largely talentless squad like Hull and getting them playing great football despite losing their star player (Snodgrass) and acquiring more points in his 18 matches there and 6 other premier league teams.
Made a strong start to his Watford career but let's not pretend they're a great squad who should be anything more than midtable.
He's a talented manager who has already won more than Sam Allardyce.
Is Brendon Rogers a good manager? He's won plenty in as poor leagues as those Silva has managed in.
And if Watford are a midtable club, why do they have a bottom three goal difference?
Sorry, and I know Sam isn't the answer either, this guy certainly isn't.
When Sam's tenure is up, I hope we can find much better than both.
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 31, 2017, 09:18:30 PM
Is Brendon Rogers a good manager? He's won plenty in as poor leagues as those Silva has managed in.Rodgers ie a decent manager
And if Watford are a midtable club, why do they have a bottom three goal difference?
Sorry, and I know Sam isn't the answer either, this guy certainly isn't.
When Sam's tenure is up, I hope we can find much better than both.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 09:19:10 PM
His work with Estoril taking them from the second division to 5th and then 4th in the top tier on a shoe string budget.
Winning 28/30 matches to win the league with Olympiakos.
Taking a largely talentless squad like Hull and getting them playing great football despite losing their star player (Snodgrass) and acquiring more points in his 18 matches there and 6 other premier league teams.
Made a strong start to his Watford career but let's not pretend they're a great squad who should be anything more than midtable.
He's a talented manager who has already won more than Sam Allardyce.
Lower league accomplishments mean fuck all really do they or Neil Warnock would be a great manager, means even less abroad where the standard is even worse.
Great football at Hull, are you having a laugh? What in the name of god was supposed to be great about it, they were shit and went down.
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:19:11 PM
Rodgers ie a decent manager
But he's done nothing in a proper league. Just like Silva.
Post by: eugene on December 31, 2017, 09:20:32 PM
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:21:54 PM
Lower league accomplishments mean fuck all really do they or Neil Warnock would be a great manager, means even less abroad where the standard is even worse.
Great football at Hull, are you having a laugh? What in the name of god was supposed to be great about it, they were shit and went down.
When did Neil Warnock finish 4th and 5th in the premier league?
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 31, 2017, 09:23:46 PM
But he's done nothing in a proper league. Just like Silva.Well he did get closer than any other liverpool manager to winning the league
Did a pretty solid job with Swansea too
Post by: Bluedylan on December 31, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
But he's done nothing in a proper league. Just like Silva.
Keeping Watford above relegation is a good achievement.
Post by: eugene on December 31, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
Well he did get closer than any other liverpool manager to winning the leagueAnd moyse got us into Europe
Did a pretty solid job with Swansea too
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:26:50 PM
Well he did get closer than any other liverpool manager to winning the league
Did a pretty solid job with Swansea too
Thanks to Suarez he got close, still bottled it though. But he's only done anything of note in a shit league, just like Silva has.
Do you think Silva has what it takes to take us to the next level? I certainly didn't when we were looking to pay 20 million for him and I certainly don't in a month's time when he'll probably be fired.
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:27:53 PM
Keeping Watford above relegation is a good achievement.
Big Sam never got relegated in his career. Silva went down at his first attempt despite being above the zone when he first joined.
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:30:08 PM
Big Sam never got relegated in his career. Silva went down at his first attempt despite being above the zone when he first joined.
Pretty sure they were rock bottom when he took over.
Not being relegated isn't an achievement.
Post by: Silas on December 31, 2017, 09:30:39 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on December 31, 2017, 09:33:25 PM
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 09:36:20 PM
When did Neil Warnock finish 4th and 5th in the premier league?
He didn't but finishing 4th and 5th in a league where most people can only name 3 teams from that country isn't all that really is it.
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:38:17 PM
He didn't but finishing 4th and 5th in a league where most people can only name 3 teams from that country isn't all that really is it.
Whereas the premier league is stacked with quality.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 09:40:58 PM
Whereas the premier league is stacked with quality.
Hell of a lot better than fucking Portugal
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:45:50 PM
Pretty sure they were rock bottom when he took over.
Not being relegated isn't an achievement.
Neither is being relegated. Nor is conceding the third most goals in the prem.
Like I say, I really hope we can get better once Sam's tenure is up.
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:48:29 PM
Neither is being relegated. Nor is conceding the third most goals in the prem.
Like I say, I really hope we can get better once Sam's tenure is up.
Phalan relegated Hull, not Silva.
Goal difference doesn't matter, position does. West Brom are bottom of the league but have conceded less than Watford.
Who is better?
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 09:50:03 PM
Hell of a lot better than fucking Portugal
Finishing 4th and 5th with Estoril is significantly better than Warnock getting relegated with Sheffield United.
Especially when you do it by not playing dogshit hoofball.
Who do you reckon teams fear playing more this season, Watford or Everton?
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 09:50:39 PM
Phalan relegated Hull, not Silva.
Goal difference doesn't matter, position does. West Brom are bottom of the league but have conceded less than Watford.
Who is better?
Big Sam obviously. He's higher than both. With better points and goals for and against.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 10:04:32 PM
Finishing 4th and 5th with Estoril is significantly better than Warnock getting relegated with Sheffield United.
Especially when you do it by not playing dogshit hoofball.
Who do you reckon teams fear playing more this season, Watford or Everton?
Everton now seeing as we're higher than them in the league, have lost 1 in 8 whereas Watford have lost 5 in their last 8 in the league.
Speaks for itself really.
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 10:06:38 PM
Everton now seeing as we're higher than them in the league, have lost 1 in 8 whereas Watford have lost 5 in their last 8 in the league.
Speaks for itself really.
Bet teams shit themselves when the Everton 0-0 train comes into town.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 10:07:36 PM
Bet teams shit themselves when the Everton 0-0 train comes into town.
Bet they shit in when they turn up to Watford and only stick 3 past em
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 10:09:55 PM
Bet they shit in when they turn up to Watford and only stick 3 past em
Form is temporary.
What we're seeing from Allardyce is why he was chased out at the two previous 'big' jobs he had.
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 31, 2017, 10:14:52 PM
Form is temporary.Have to admit, I see now why he was thrown out of Newcastle
What we're seeing from Allardyce is why he was chased out at the two previous 'big' jobs he had.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 10:16:07 PM
Form is temporary.
What we're seeing from Allardyce is why he was chased out at the two previous 'big' jobs he had.
You need to get a grip mate. You're acting rather West Ham.
He's been here a matter of weeks after inheriting an absolute shambles of a squad whose confidence was at rock bottom and hasn't spent a penny yet.
We're now picking up points instead of getting dicked every single week without fail.
I'm absolutely certain that Silva would not have done a good a job at consolidating what little we currently have. If you do then good for you, I'm not arsed.
Silva playing 'great football' but not really getting results is a bit Martinez for me.
Don't bother quoting again cos I can't be arsed going over the same thing again with someone who just seems determined to bitch and moan about a pretty big upturn in results.
Post by: MexicanToffee on December 31, 2017, 10:20:45 PM
Form is temporary.
What we're seeing from Allardyce is why he was chased out at the two previous 'big' jobs he had.
I think after stabilising his previous premier league disasters the wheels came off as their squads were truly awful. I'm still prepared to give him the chance to build something here. He has something he never had before with this squad, and I don't think its time to start calling for his head just yet.
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on December 31, 2017, 10:27:14 PM
Also having vast swathes of the club's fanbase despising the hoofball that we play does nothing to stabilise anything. It's massively destabilising and divisive.
Post by: BlueBeagle on December 31, 2017, 10:32:29 PM
We don't need stabilising. Stabilising is going massively backwards.
Also having vast swathes of the club's fanbase despising the hoofball that we play does nothing to stabilise anything. It's massively destabilising and divisive.
And what stellar name would you have got in to turn around a potential relegation scrap to a fight for the top 4?
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 10:38:42 PM
We don't need stabilising. Stabilising is going massively backwards.
Also having vast swathes of the club's fanbase despising the hoofball that we play does nothing to stabilise anything. It's massively destabilising and divisive.
Paying 20 million for the likes of Silva is also going backwards. Sam has stopped the rot. Remember we had conceded more than Watford at the time. We're not now.
I don't have the answer, but I'm pretty convinced at what I've seen of Silva, he certainly isn't either.
Post by: ally2 on December 31, 2017, 10:44:25 PM
We don't need stabilising. Stabilising is going massively backwards.
Also having vast swathes of the club's fanbase despising the hoofball that we play does nothing to stabilise anything. It's massively destabilising and divisive.
I see you've gone down the route of typing 'hoofball' in every post. Mud sticks I suppose but it's real lowest common denominator stuff.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 31, 2017, 10:45:44 PM
And what stellar name would you have got in to turn around a potential relegation scrap to a fight for the top 4?
Hmm. A team that was in joint 12th, 2 points away from 9th, beat West Ham 4-0 and had played 4 of the top 6 already? Anyone that's not a hoofball merchant would be a start. Nor would I have given said hoofball merchant a £6m a year deal, with a £1m avoid relegation bonus.
I mean, when you lay the situation out like that, it really couldn't be much more shambolic could it? That's not even Sam's fault. It's Moshiri/the board. Disastrous decision making.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 31, 2017, 10:47:25 PM
I see you've gone down the route of typing 'hoofball' in every post. Mud sticks I suppose but it's real lowest common denominator stuff.
When the hoofball stops, I promise I'll stop typing it.
Post by: ally2 on December 31, 2017, 10:48:03 PM
When the hoofball stops, I promise I'll stop typing it.
We haven't been playing it
Post by: TheRam on December 31, 2017, 10:48:43 PM
And what stellar name would you have got in to turn around a potential relegation scrap to a fight for the top 4?
Mikel Arteta
Post by: Shogun on December 31, 2017, 10:49:36 PM
We haven't been playing it
Lol
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 31, 2017, 10:49:55 PM
We haven't been playing itDunno what you've been watching if you think that
Post by: TheRam on December 31, 2017, 10:52:50 PM
We haven't been playing it
You are fucking messing now aren't you?
Post by: Faceatthefence on December 31, 2017, 10:56:13 PM
Post by: ally2 on December 31, 2017, 10:56:59 PM
Dunno what you've been watching if you think that
There's a difference between making defensive clearances as a part of defending, and using long balls as a primary way to attack. If you want to criticise the team for being defensive (and therefore having to make more clearances) then I've no issue with that, and I'd like us to attack more as well but if you think this is long ball football a la Wimbledon c.1988 then you're wrong.
Post by: blargins on December 31, 2017, 10:57:33 PM
Considering weve chucked 10m payoffs apiece at our last two failures,has anyone given a moments thought that SA could be fired in the summer should a viable candidate/target come available.Ruthless business decision i know,but dont think many tears would be shed by the fanbase.
It would only cost us 6 million if we did this time.
If someone who could make a big difference came in, then I'd be all for it. But to sack him and simply replace with someone else who would largely do the same, no point.
Post by: TheRam on December 31, 2017, 11:03:09 PM
There's a difference between making defensive clearances as a part of defending, and using long balls as a primary way to attack. If you want to criticise the team for being defensive (and therefore having to make more clearances) then I've no issue with that, and I'd like us to attack more as well but if you think this is long ball football a la Wimbledon c.1988 then you're wrong.
90% of our attacks start with a Pickford long ball up the pitch.
Granted it's been that way for most of the season, but we've regressed offensively under allardyce and there's been no desire to get the ball on the deck and play.
I don't actually have a problem with being direct and playing long. My issue is having no one within 30 yards of the striker because we defend so deep.
Post by: ally2 on December 31, 2017, 11:16:43 PM
90% of our attacks start with a Pickford long ball up the pitch.
Granted it's been that way for most of the season, but we've regressed offensively under allardyce and there's been no desire to get the ball on the deck and play.
I don't actually have a problem with being direct and playing long. My issue is having no one within 30 yards of the striker because we defend so deep.
I'm also confused why our striker is always left so isolated.
90% is a big exaggeration though. And anyway a keeper kicking to a centre forward also does not constitute hoofball - it's either a necessary clearance under pressure or a goal kick. And I agree that playing these pieces short to likes of Williams and Jagielka would be a bad idea.
Post by: therealdunc on January 01, 2018, 12:01:24 AM
There's a difference between making defensive clearances as a part of defending, and using long balls as a primary way to attack. If you want to criticise the team for being defensive (and therefore having to make more clearances) then I've no issue with that, and I'd like us to attack more as well but if you think this is long ball football a la Wimbledon c.1988 then you're wrong.
Their nasty anti Everton agenda is there for everyone to see
Leave them to hate, I feel sorry for them
Post by: BlueBeagle on January 01, 2018, 12:18:32 AM
Current flavour of the month is seemingly Silva.
Off the top of my head in the last few years we've had:
Martinez
Laudrup
Monk
AVB
Billic
I'm sure there's many more if I could be arsed to look.
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 01, 2018, 12:19:53 AM
Their nasty anti Everton agenda is there for everyone to seeYour a cunt
Leave them to hate, I feel sorry for them
Post by: TheRam on January 01, 2018, 12:24:25 AM
Their nasty anti Everton agenda is there for everyone to see
Leave them to hate, I feel sorry for them
I feel sorry for the lad who's spent a lot of his Christmas break being a WUM on an Internet forum.
Really sad.
Post by: Shogun on January 01, 2018, 12:29:00 AM
The young manager that plays so-called 'attractive' football at lower-mid table clubs always get brought up yet how often do they work out for longer than 18 months max before getting sacked?
Current flavour of the month is seemingly Silva.
Off the top of my head in the last few years we've had:
Martinez
Laudrup
Monk
AVB
Billic
I'm sure there's many more if I could be arsed to look.
You raise a good point but I wouldn’t say Bilic or Monk ever played attractive football.
Pochettino is definitely a manager who was able to continue his success at a bigger club and I’d argue Rodgers as well.
Post by: gizzblue on January 01, 2018, 12:32:45 AM
Post by: BlueBeagle on January 01, 2018, 12:37:57 AM
You raise a good point but I wouldn’t say Bilic or Monk ever played attractive football.
Pochettino is definitely a manager who was able to continue his success at a bigger club and I’d argue Rodgers as well.
It's relative. They were the best WHU side to watch I remember in a long time but still a far cry from Barcelona.
As for Rodgers, good managers don't manage Celtic after Liverpool.
Post by: therealdunc on January 01, 2018, 12:40:59 AM
I feel sorry for the lad who's spent a lot of his Christmas break being a WUM on an Internet forum.
Really sad.
Agree, but it’s more agenda on here than people winding up
Post by: TheRam on January 01, 2018, 12:42:31 AM
Agree, but it’s more agenda on here than people winding up
Haha. You're one of the better WUMs on here to be fair.
Post by: therealdunc on January 01, 2018, 12:44:30 AM
Haha. You're one of the better WUMs on here to be fair.
My opinion and only my opinion based on experience, facts and reality .
Some other people get there’s from the back of the tabloids
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 01, 2018, 12:49:07 AM
Id love to know what the Sam loving anti football crew would call the style we are playing at the min under their new Messiah...if it's not hoofball what the fuck is it ....boomerang ball ?....defend only?....Attack v defence? .
We are playing horrible football but style?? We haven't had a style for years. We can't even successfully play long ball football without a targetman.
What style even suits our squad? I'd argue we can't put an 11 on the pitch that could compete in any style. Yes it's shit but it's been different levels of shit for quite some time. Least give him the window. He didn't make the mess
Post by: cantoffee on January 01, 2018, 12:58:46 AM
My opinion and only my opinion based on experience, facts and reality .All your facts are fake news!
Some other people get there's from the back of the tabloids
Sad!
Post by: Simon Paul on January 01, 2018, 01:41:39 AM
I feel sorry for the lad who's spent a lot of his Christmas break being a WUM on an Internet forum.
Really sad.
It's kept our activity up though and that's really tough over the holidays
If he gives us his PayPal address we'll weigh him in
Post by: everton1952 on January 01, 2018, 02:05:00 AM
Id love to know what the Sam loving anti football crew would call the style we are playing at the min under their new Messiah...if it's not hoofball what the fuck is it ....boomerang ball ?....defend only?....Attack v defence? .The Sam loving anti football crew are not as thick as you appear to be. Who in the name of God could turn this crowd of piss poor, average and in some cases unfit footballers into a pleasing stylish winning team in a few weeks? As the big man says, who knows more about football than you (or I) ever will, it will take until next season to turn this mess around. Until then we dig deep. If you feel you have wasted your ticket money, that is hard cack. The truth really is you cannot be that thick, you are just on a wind up, in which case, fair play.
Post by: Shogun on January 01, 2018, 02:08:12 AM
The Sam loving anti football crew are not as thick as you appear to be. Who in the name of God could turn this crowd of piss poor, average and in some cases unfit footballers into a pleasing stylish winning team in a few weeks? As the big man says, who knows more about football than you (or I) ever will, it will take until next season to turn this mess around. Until then we dig deep. If you feel you have wasted your ticket money, that is hard cack. The truth really is you cannot be that thick, you are just on a wind up, in which case, fair play.
More fool you for believing Sam Allardyce is capable of producing a decent standard of football.
Those who back him because they believe he’ll get results then fine but to think he’s ever going to get us playing entertaining footy? His entire career would suggest otherwise.
Post by: everton1952 on January 01, 2018, 02:15:02 AM
More fool you for believing Sam Allardyce is capable of producing a decent standard of football.We shall see, won't we?
Those who back him because they believe he’ll get results then fine but to think he’s ever going to get us playing entertaining footy? His entire career would suggest otherwise.
Post by: Confucius on January 01, 2018, 01:52:43 PM
Their nasty anti Everton agenda is there for everyone to see
Leave them to hate, I feel sorry for them
Anti Allardyce mate. He is not Everton.
Post by: bluenuck on January 01, 2018, 02:32:32 PM
More fool you for believing Sam Allardyce is capable of producing a decent standard of football.
Those who back him because they believe he’ll get results then fine but to think he’s ever going to get us playing entertaining footy? His entire career would suggest otherwise.
So I guess you wanted to keep Roberto Martinez??
Post by: Rodenplav64 on January 01, 2018, 03:03:45 PM
My opinion and only my opinion based on experience, facts and reality .
Some other people get there’s from the back of the tabloids
Because you say 'fact' after it doesn't make it a fact . Fact .
Post by: Simon Paul on January 01, 2018, 04:24:07 PM
So I guess you wanted to keep Roberto Martinez??
Are they the only two managers left in the wild?
How bad was that car park fire FFS?
Post by: everton1952 on January 01, 2018, 07:23:29 PM
Post by: therealdunc on January 01, 2018, 07:27:13 PM
Let’s leave the professionals like Sam to get on with managing the team and the real fans amongst us can get on with supporting the boys in the royal blue shirts.
See you all in the taxi club at 4pm for pre match refreshments
Post by: ally2 on January 01, 2018, 07:38:19 PM
This seems to be developing into a discussion between those who "believe" Sam will succeed and those who don't. You will probably have to scratch around to find anyone who really believes he will turn us into an attractive attacking side. The fact is we have him, even though possibly he was the choice of very few. He deserves to be backed and not condemned outright by some who seem to be hoping to be proved right that he will make a mess of it. I hope when he goes in 18 months he will leave us in far better shape than when Koeman left. That is why I support him and want to give him the full benefit of the time he has left.
I agree with most of that. I don't 'believe' anything though. I don't want to be proved right or wrong. What I want is for our manager to be given plenty of time and his own signings to see what he can do. I reject the prevailing thought that what we are seeing now is what we will see in the future. It will be different. If it is felt that we need to be defensive and pragmatic in the intervening period then so be it. If people don't like watching it then boo hoo. I have no idea idea where this pompous attitude came from. We've been shit for decades.
Post by: Juanito on January 01, 2018, 07:47:05 PM
Post by: blargins on January 01, 2018, 07:49:18 PM
In that time, we should be stable. We'll know who is the future and who isn't. We'll get rid of some dead wood this month and sign a few players who can make a difference in the future.
We're now safe, we won't be getting relegated. The first part of the mission is pretty much done. We've taken several steps backwards, but hopefully we can move forward.
Fuck knows who it will be to take us forwards though.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 01, 2018, 08:00:15 PM
I agree with most of that. I don't 'believe' anything though. I don't want to be proved right or wrong. What I want is for our manager to be given plenty of time and his own signings to see what he can do. I reject the prevailing thought that what we are seeing now is what we will see in the future. It will be different. If it is felt that we need to be defensive and pragmatic in the intervening period then so be it. If people don't like watching it then boo hoo. I have no idea idea where this pompous attitude came from. We've been shit for decades.
The last line is exactly the point. We've been shite as long as some of us have been alive and yet people talk as if allardyce doesn't understand the Everton way.
We've had 3 managers this season and not played well in both defence and attack in any game. We've probably not played well more than a couple of seasons in the last 10
Post by: Dr. Sponge on January 01, 2018, 08:32:53 PM
The last line is exactly the point. We've been shite as long as some of us have been alive and yet people talk as if allardyce doesn't understand the Everton way.
We've had 3 managers this season and not played well in both defence and attack in any game. We've probably not played well more than a couple of seasons in the last 10
True. We had good results for the first 5 games last season, but then we were shit up until around Christmas time/when Bolasie got injured. Then we went on a good run, until the start of this season when we were shit again.
I think we're just a bit shit tbh lads. We need a few fullbacks, a couple of strikers, a playmaker and some pace in the final third.
As for style of play, I wouldn't mind playing off a target man and then high tempo in the final third. I don't see the problem with that, but that's certainly not our current style as we don't have the players for it. Nor do we have the players to play like Arsenal. If you attempt an Arsenal-type style with players of lower quality, then this league will destroy you, especially with the high pressing tactics that a lot of teams play now.
Post by: Simon Paul on January 01, 2018, 09:24:31 PM
He's a quality experienced manager , most Evertonians are clueless, on this forum the majority wanted Unsworth as manager lolol lolol lolol
Let's leave the professionals like Sam to get on with managing the team and the real fans amongst us can get on with supporting the boys in the royal blue shirts.
See you all in the taxi club at 4pm for pre match refreshments
Nope. The majority on here didn't want Unsworth to have the job permanently.
"Real fans" - yeah, because there's such a thing as a distinction between "levels" of supporter. There's not, just levels of idiot, which you score highly on. Or lowly. Whichever you take as the bigger insult.
Enjoy the taxi club, although you've probably just lost them some business now people know whoppers like you drink in there.
Post by: sam of the south on January 01, 2018, 09:50:26 PM
He’s a quality experienced manager , most Evertonians are clueless, on this forum the majority wanted Unsworth as manager lolol lolol lolol
Let’s leave the professionals like Sam to get on with managing the team and the real fans amongst us can get on with supporting the boys in the royal blue shirts.
See you all in the taxi club at 4pm for pre match refreshments
You lost me at 'the majority wanted Unsworth as manager trollollol'
A fair few wanted him to succeed (I wanted him to do well in the caretaker position but I definitely didn't want him appointed as permanent manager) because he's a good lad and a passionate Evertonian, but after the first two or three games nearly everyone on this site conceded that it rightly wasn't going to happen for him.
Post by: GLewis on January 01, 2018, 09:57:36 PM
True. We had good results for the first 5 games last season, but then we were shit up until around Christmas time/when Bolasie got injured. Then we went on a good run, until the start of this season when we were shit again.
I think we're just a bit shit tbh lads. We need a few fullbacks, a couple of strikers, a playmaker and some pace in the final third.
As for style of play, I wouldn't mind playing off a target man and then high tempo in the final third. I don't see the problem with that, but that's certainly not our current style as we don't have the players for it. Nor do we have the players to play like Arsenal. If you attempt an Arsenal-type style with players of lower quality, then this league will destroy you, especially with the high pressing tactics that a lot of teams play now.
We’re not awful otherwise we wouldn’t finish 7th / be 9th now.
Our problem is that we’ve never been firmly in the top 4 previously or the top 6 now.
We’ve been doing well to be close but still some way off.
Even in 13/14 we finished 5 points off 4th.
We’re (a bit) better than the rest of the league but not by enough that when we’re poor, we’re poor.
The top 6, when they are bad, are average at worst.
We’re swimming against the tide (quality wise) in comparison to the top six in that it takes real effort to get close and that when we need a breather we slip right back out again.
Arsenal don’t have to play well to finish in the top 6 for example and they’re viewed as a weak link every season.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on January 01, 2018, 10:30:38 PM
We're not awful otherwise we wouldn't finish 7th / be 9th now.
Our problem is that we've never been firmly in the top 4 previously or the top 6 now.
We've been doing well to be close but still some way off.
Even in 13/14 we finished 5 points off 4th.
We're (a bit) better than the rest of the league but not by enough that when we're poor, we're poor.
The top 6, when they are bad, are average at worst.
We're swimming against the tide (quality wise) in comparison to the top six in that it takes real effort to get close and that when we need a breather we slip right back out again.
Arsenal don't have to play well to finish in the top 6 for example and they're viewed as a weak link every season.
Yeah fair enough. Shit in relative terms, to the top 6.
But my point is that we're carrying a lot of average players, ageing players or players too young. Sigurdson and Rooney being the only players capable of winning a game or taking control.
So whenever we've tried to play expansive football this season, we've been found out. Our best form has come playing defensively, because we have to. Although the midfield against Bournemouth was a bit over the top.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 01, 2018, 10:40:40 PM
Yeah fair enough. Shit in relative terms, to the top 6.
But my point is that we're carrying a lot of average players, ageing players or players too young. Sigurdson and Rooney being the only players capable of winning a game or taking control.
So whenever we've tried to play expansive football this season, we've been found out. Our best form has come playing defensively, because we have to. Although the midfield against Bournemouth was a bit over the top.
I don't think even rooney and Sigurdsson are capable of controlling a game. We spend half of every game moaning about Rooneys careless passing and Sigurdsson has had a few decent game and he's not had 1 where he's looked like a playmaker never mind a 45m playmaker
Post by: brap2 on January 01, 2018, 10:56:10 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 01, 2018, 11:16:01 PM
I think the quality of the squad has definitely slipped as well. Genuinely only think Gueye and maybe Pickford would get into top 6 squads, let alone first team. Previously we’ve always felt like 3-4 top players away, now we’re 8-9.
Totally agree. We are a million miles away. I think you can kind of compete defensively with lesser players and great organisation. However we'd still need a lot more threat from full back then we currently have and a whole near set of attacking players
It's not so much that we are short. It's that everyone in the top 6 have at least 1 great attacking player. We don't even have a good 1.
Post by: Shogun on January 02, 2018, 01:44:17 AM
Post by: Waltzer on January 02, 2018, 01:45:43 AM
Hopefully our manager next season.Hope not, I think it'll be Fonseca
Post by: brap2 on January 02, 2018, 01:54:09 AM
Totally agree. We are a million miles away. I think you can kind of compete defensively with lesser players and great organisation. However we'd still need a lot more threat from full back then we currently have and a whole near set of attacking players
It's not so much that we are short. It's that everyone in the top 6 have at least 1 great attacking player. We don't even have a good 1.
Yeah agree, no star attackers in the whole squad. Bolassie probably our closest and he’s a way off.
Post by: everton1952 on January 02, 2018, 03:47:09 AM
Post by: Simon Paul on January 02, 2018, 04:35:20 AM
I can really see the attraction of Silva to some. He is definitely good looking, and that sexy foreign accent. Sam cannot compete with either quality.
Locking this now so we can all focus on the person who is actually Everton manager.
Silva has enough issues with Watford fans dismantling him without Evertonians in their 60s slagging him off as well.