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NSNO Forums => The Speculating Unprofessionals Forum => Topic started by: Shogun on December 21, 2017, 01:55:25 AM

Title: Europe next season?
Post by: Shogun on December 21, 2017, 01:55:25 AM
Just noticed the league cup last four is likely to be Arsenal, Chelsea, United and City.

Means unless there's a surprise FA Cup winner (and there normally isn't) that Europe will be 7th again this season.

A bit mad to think we could still be in Europe next season.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Bluedylan on December 21, 2017, 01:59:12 AM
Could be three points behind Spurs if the weekend goes our way, which is insane.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 21, 2017, 02:17:38 AM
Nothing but happy memories recently, Everton in Europe. Bring it on!

Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 02:32:23 AM
I'm not sure I want it if it means our season starting in July again. I can't think of a team that has done well when having to start their season that early. Still think that's one of the major reasons we find ourselves in the position we are.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on December 21, 2017, 02:35:35 AM
It's a dangerous game trying to predict results, but if we do manage a win, then you'd imagine Utd would beat Leicester, so we'd leapfrog them. The result for Spurs would be good either way really, if they lose we're only 3 points behind them, if they beat Burnley then we're only 4 points behind Burnley.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on December 21, 2017, 03:52:44 AM
Just noticed the league cup last four is likely to be Arsenal, Chelsea, United and City.


Spoke too soon.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: TheRam on December 21, 2017, 03:57:33 AM
Wouldn't mind giving it the swerve next season tbh.

Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: D15TIN on December 21, 2017, 03:58:30 AM
I'm not sure I want it if it means our season starting in July again. I can't think of a team that has done well when having to start their season that early. Still think that's one of the major reasons we find ourselves in the position we are.
We'd have to chance it and maybe play a few kids in the earlier rounds -  I think we'd have had a poor start to the season anyway, it was the amount of signings we made (mostly the wrong ones) that messed our start up
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 04:01:27 AM
Wouldn't mind giving it the swerve next season tbh.



You make it sound we're in it every season.

We stuffed up this season because we didn't get a balanced squad. I'm sure it'll be better next.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: School of Science on December 21, 2017, 04:12:09 AM
Have to think the way we performed in Europe this season do we even deserve it next season.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 04:12:27 AM
You make it sound we're in it every season.

We stuffed up this season because we didn't get a balanced squad. I'm sure it'll be better next.

When was the last time a team that started in July did well?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: bogie on December 21, 2017, 04:13:48 AM
world cup year we do not want to be playing form the July 7th for me is a bad spot to end up this year
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: everton1952 on December 21, 2017, 05:03:52 AM
Avoid  Europe at all costs if it means starting in July again.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: ally2 on December 21, 2017, 05:07:16 AM
Haha now we're in some form and actually could make 7th, no one wants it. Come on Chelsea!
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 05:09:01 AM
Haha now we're in some form and actually could make 7th, no one wants it. Come on Chelsea!

Oh I want it. Just don't want to have to go through the qualifying rounds.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 05:09:10 AM
When was the last time a team that started in July did well?

Shit yeah. Let's not even bother trying.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 05:10:46 AM
Shit yeah. Let's not even bother trying.

See my previous reply.

The qualifying rounds are ill thought out by UEFA. The competition is too big, and this is just a way of squeezing the last droplet of cash out of it, to the detriment of the quality of the competition.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 05:27:13 AM
See my previous reply.

The qualifying rounds are ill thought out by UEFA. The competition is too big, and this is just a way of squeezing the last droplet of cash out of it, to the detriment of the quality of the competition.

I don't think us starting it so early was the cause of our problems though. We treated them as pre season games anyway. Our problem was so many new faces playing together in a team lacking balance and direction. Oh, and we didn't have a proper striker either.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 06:12:51 AM
I don't think us starting it so early was the cause of our problems though. We treated them as pre season games anyway. Our problem was so many new faces playing together in a team lacking balance and direction. Oh, and we didn't have a proper striker either.

We may have treated them as such, but we couldn't play them as such. We couldn't chose the opposition, we couldn't play all the players we wanted. We couldn't play without pressure, and so on.

There are other reasons too, obviously. But it can't be ignored the fact that all teams that start their season so early struggle for the remainder of their campaign.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 06:15:20 AM
We may have treated them as such, but we couldn't play them as such. We couldn't chose the opposition, we couldn't play all the players we wanted. We couldn't play without pressure, and so on.

There are other reasons too, obviously. But it can't be ignored the fact that all teams that start their season so early struggle for the remainder of their campaign.

And all clubs who win the FA cup that aren't a top club get relegated.

The trick is to buck the trend. An extra 4 games really shouldn't make all that difference.

Do I like the format? Nope, but we can't change that. I'd rather be in it than not.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Thomas on December 21, 2017, 06:17:33 AM
So 'Project Moshiri' is reduced to hoping top 4 clubs clean up so we can finish 7th, again.

Where Spurs doing this all the time when they where aiming to eventually break into the top 4?

I hope another club outside the top 6 wins the FA Cup or Carabao Cup this year, in the former preferably us and the latter Bristol City or someone like that.

As it stands our team is not ready for European football and this season clearly displayed that.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 06:32:46 AM
So 'Project Moshiri' is reduced to hoping top 4 clubs clean up so we can finish 7th, again.

No it doesn't, fuck off. We've had a terrible season, but how on earth you can type that shit is beyond me. The guy has overseen improvements to the ground, spent heavily on playing staff, invested in the training facilities, started the process of moving to a new purpose built stadium (which IS needed). But hey, carry on with this boring fucking agenda you keep peddling every time you log on.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Thomas on December 21, 2017, 06:35:30 AM
No it doesn't, fuck off. We've had a terrible season, but how on earth you can type that shit is beyond me. The guy has overseen improvements to the ground, spent heavily on playing staff, invested in the training facilities, started the process of moving to a new purpose built stadium (which IS needed). But hey, carry on with this boring fucking agenda you keep peddling every time you log on.

Compare his net spend to other clubs, something even our former manager and Phil Neville where even saying, its not comparable. He basically just trades.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 06:36:26 AM
Compare his net spend to other clubs, something even our former manager and Phil Neville where even saying, its not comparable. He basically just trades.

Net spend means fuck all, and only then takes into account the playing staff. I thought you were smarter than that.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Thomas on December 21, 2017, 06:40:55 AM
Net spend means fuck all, and only then takes into account the playing staff. I thought you were smarter than that.

Compare our sale of players to our buys. Compared to the top 4 at least and even the top 6, its not big. From memory. If I'm wrong I'll shake your hand on that one.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 07:14:28 AM
Compare our sale of players to our buys. Compared to the top 4 at least and even the top 6, its not big. From memory. If I'm wrong I'll shake your hand on that one.

How about, compare it to what came before it. Rather than to teams who are either massive international brands or have had the benefit of regular CL cash. Compare apples with apples.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Tony Clifton on December 21, 2017, 07:53:38 AM
We need regular European football.  It shouldn't even be a question let alone a debate. 
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 09:00:11 AM
And all clubs who win the FA cup that aren't a top club get relegated.

No they don't.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: American Evertonian on December 21, 2017, 09:03:52 AM
When was the last time a team that started in July did well?

When was the last time Sam Allerdyce went to Europe? We owe it to big Sam and if he keeps up the current form we will be in the CL anyway which will be nice for a change.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 09:42:50 AM
When was the last time Sam Allerdyce went to Europe? We owe it to big Sam and if he keeps up the current form we will be in the CL anyway which will be nice for a change.

We owe Big Sam nothing, yet.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blue1948 on December 21, 2017, 10:38:55 AM
Compare his net spend to other clubs, something even our former manager and Phil Neville where even saying, its not comparable. He basically just trades.
So are we to trade the old lady for a new stadium on the docks?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 01:25:41 PM
No they don't.
You realize Iím talking recently donít you?

To not want to be in Europe is dumb.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Macca77 on December 21, 2017, 01:26:22 PM
Its a no from me
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 21, 2017, 02:20:56 PM
You realize Iím talking recently donít you?

To not want to be in Europe is dumb.

Not to want to be in the ridiculous qualifying rounds isn't. Straight into the group stages? Great. Start the season in July and watch us crumble on all fronts? Nah.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Bluedylan on December 21, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
Allardyce would plan and prepare for the early rounds of the EL much better than Koeman did, and I very much doubt he'd be getting involved in transfer sagas lasting 6 weeks.

We should always want to be in Europe and we shouldn't let Koeman's complete mismanagement cloud our judgement.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 02:38:45 PM
Not to want to be in the ridiculous qualifying rounds isn't. Straight into the group stages? Great. Start the season in July and watch us crumble on all fronts? Nah.
Must be great to be able to predict the future so clearly. Whatís the lotto numbers for next week?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Mac934 on December 21, 2017, 03:10:40 PM
Definitely. Even the qualifiers if need be. Prove that this season's disaster was a one off and hopefully won't happen again. We need Europe to attract better players also.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on December 21, 2017, 03:21:22 PM
I'd love to be in Europe again tbf.

Only niggle I have with starting so early is players not getting much rest after the WC.
That said, not sure who out of our starting line up would actually be going?
 
Gylfi, Pickford and Gueye are the only ones standing out?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 05:09:44 PM
We owe Big Sam nothing, yet.

We owe him his wages for this week. That's about it though.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Lxxx on December 21, 2017, 05:11:39 PM
Canít believe weíre even debating this lads.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Robioto on December 21, 2017, 05:58:50 PM
As I always say we should be striving to be the best and do the best we can in every competition and to win every game we can. I think we should still be aiming for 7th (and above!) and with our up turn in form and the transfer window on the horizon I think 7th is reasonably likely. We are only 6 points off.

Then hopefully that will be enough to get us into Europe to have another and hopefully better crack at it. I love Everton being in Europe.

Few things wind me up more than fans wishing we weren't in certain competitions. In fact I can't believe it's even being debated.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Macca77 on December 21, 2017, 06:38:07 PM
The Europa league needs a complete overhaul, the amount of games you have to play to win it is fucking ridiculous, and the champions league drop outs need fucking off to.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
The Europa league needs a complete overhaul, the amount of games you have to play to win it is fucking ridiculous, and the champions league drop outs need fucking off to.
This is definitely true. Especially the cl dropouts.

It was all better as knockout competitions to be honest. The league stuff is bs.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Macca77 on December 21, 2017, 07:16:01 PM
This is definitely true. Especially the cl dropouts.

It was all better as knockout competitions to be honest. The league stuff is bs.

Exactly, would also means less games to win the thing.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 21, 2017, 08:34:17 PM
Exactly, would also means less games to win the thing.

Yep. Revert back to knockout. Increase the prem back up to 44 games. Everyone's happy.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blueToffee on December 22, 2017, 12:56:10 AM
I like being in Europe, but there are downsides and it's hard to totally ignore them.

The league will always be the bread and butter of what makes me happy as a fan, and like it or not when you don't have a deep squad involvement in the EL does appear to make the league more of a challenge. Basically I feel like if we're serious about being in Europe we'd need more investment in the quality of the squad as a whole.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: gizzblue on December 22, 2017, 01:02:12 AM
Let's just get our fucking team performing at a consistent level first ....fuck Europe off next year, we don't need the hassle.imho.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blue1948 on December 22, 2017, 01:06:56 AM
Let's just get our fucking team performing at a consistent level first ....fuck Europe off next year, we don't need the hassle.imho.
Can you see any team above us saying that?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on December 22, 2017, 01:16:10 AM
Can you see any team above us saying that?

Yes, bar those with a genuine chance of getting Champions League.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: gizzblue on December 22, 2017, 01:33:56 AM
Can you see any team above us saying that?
Fair enough ...but if you want a proper challenge at the top six ....Europa is best left the fuck alone first...we can't do both ...squad depth and quality is required .
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ross on December 22, 2017, 01:59:23 AM
Top clubs play in Europe every year, not if and when they feel like it.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: TheTone on December 22, 2017, 02:03:41 AM
we're in limbo land really until big Usmanov or the likes come on board, even that's not a guarantee

thing is, that limbo land is still worth a lot of dosh to the mosh and he'll be happy with that

happy xmas blue lids

Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on December 22, 2017, 02:12:44 AM
in responce to the thread question..

Sure why not :D
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: GLewis on December 22, 2017, 02:54:40 AM
Fair enough ...but if you want a proper challenge at the top six ....Europa is best left the fuck alone first...we can't do both ...squad depth and quality is required .

Proper challenge for the top 4 surely.

No point not wanting to be in the EL to challenge for top 6 when 5th and 6th qualify for, er, the EL... :eh:
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blue slug on December 22, 2017, 03:03:17 AM
We should be aiming to win every competition weíre in even the league, not aiming for 6th. Sport is about winning competitions
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 22, 2017, 03:13:08 AM
Allardyce would plan and prepare for the early rounds of the EL much better than Koeman did, and I very much doubt he'd be getting involved in transfer sagas lasting 6 weeks.

We should always want to be in Europe and we shouldn't let Koeman's complete mismanagement cloud our judgement.

Does Big Sam have any meaningful European experience?

Genuine question that. My guess is he's got far less than Koeman.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 22, 2017, 04:12:26 AM
Does Big Sam have any meaningful European experience?

Genuine question that. My guess is he's got far less than Koeman.

Probably more than Koeman. He got Bolton into Europe once.

What's Koeman done? Got us there and got sacked half way through the campaign.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 22, 2017, 04:19:11 AM
Probably more than Koeman. He got Bolton into Europe once.

What's Koeman done? Got us there and got sacked half way through the campaign.

Must've had a bunch of campaigns in Europe as a manager before he got to the PL no?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 22, 2017, 04:47:51 AM
Must've had a bunch of campaigns in Europe as a manager before he got to the PL no?

Yeah, true. Forgot he managed in Holland before.

Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 06:39:20 AM
Must be great to be able to predict the future so clearly. Whatís the lotto numbers for next week?

Mate, can you honestly give me an example of any team that hasn't struggled the season they have to play in the qualifying rounds? Because I can't. It's not predicting the future, it's experience taken from not just our season currently, but all the other teams affected too.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 22, 2017, 07:14:37 AM
Mate, can you honestly give me an example of any team that hasn't struggled the season they have to play in the qualifying rounds? Because I can't. It's not predicting the future, it's experience taken from not just our season currently, but all the other teams affected too.
Iíve no idea about other teams and donít really care. However if weíre not in it our chances of buying better players diminish, weíll have zero chance of winning it and whatís the point in even trying? Might as well just finish 8th every season.

If other teams struggle, thatís their problem. Letís be the team that doesnít struggle and push through it.

And really four extra games shouldnít make that much difference.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ross on December 22, 2017, 07:25:54 AM
Fulham.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 07:29:40 AM
Iíve no idea about other teams and donít really care. However if weíre not in it our chances of buying better players diminish, weíll have zero chance of winning it and whatís the point in even trying? Might as well just finish 8th every season.

If other teams struggle, thatís their problem. Letís be the team that doesnít struggle and push through it.

And really four extra games shouldnít make that much difference.

I'd rather go full kilter at the top 6 next year. I'm not going to be unhappy if we get 7th and get into the qualifying rounds, but I'm going to be far from upset if we don't.

It's a bit silly to say you don't know or care about other sides, as that's the only barometer available.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 07:30:21 AM
Fulham.

Good memory. Did they have to start in July? The format was a bit different back then wasn't it?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ross on December 22, 2017, 07:34:09 AM
Good memory. Did they have to start in July? The format was a bit different back then wasn't it?

Started the 30th July. Pretty much the same route we had. Finished 16 points above the team in 18th and nearly won something. Imagine.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 07:45:09 AM
Started the 30th July. Pretty much the same route we had. Finished 16 points above the team in 18th and nearly won something. Imagine.

I nearly can.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: BlueMaquis on December 22, 2017, 08:00:56 AM
We should cancel all our pre-season friendlies too, can't have anything that would tire the players out before game 1 of the prem.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 08:20:11 AM
Fuck sake.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: boothill on December 22, 2017, 08:43:15 AM
id sooner they brought back the original concept, cup winners and uefa as seperate competitions, let them keep the champions league, that keeps the greedy bastards pacified
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: boothill on December 22, 2017, 08:45:13 AM
Probably more than Koeman. He got Bolton into Europe once.

What's Koeman done? Got us there and got sacked half way through the campaign.
Mussolini got italy into africa once, but they didnt stay in it
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blue1948 on December 22, 2017, 11:14:23 AM
Fair enough ...but if you want a proper challenge at the top six ....Europa is best left the fuck alone first...we can't do both ...squad depth and quality is required .
Big sam thinks our squad is too big now so where do we go from here?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Cereal Killer on December 22, 2017, 02:41:47 PM
I'd rather go full kilter at the top 6 next year. I'm not going to be unhappy if we get 7th and get into the qualifying rounds, but I'm going to be far from upset if we don't

You'd rather we missed European football next season so we can go full kilter at top 6? And thus achieving European football but just a season later?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: TheRam on December 22, 2017, 02:57:33 PM
You'd rather we missed European football next season so we can go full kilter at top 6? And thus achieving European football but just a season later?

I would.

Think we'd be a lot better prepared for it.

I don't really want is starting the season in July, in a World Cup year, with a squad that needs a massive overhaul.

It'll be a mess. I want Allardyce to have the best preparation possible going into the new season.

I love being in Europe, but it can become a hindrance at times.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 03:13:08 PM
You'd rather we missed European football next season so we can go full kilter at top 6? And thus achieving European football but just a season later?

Yea, because top 6 doesn't involve the ridiculous early start to the season.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: GLewis on December 22, 2017, 03:14:54 PM
Surely it should be that if we donít qualify then try and use that as an advantage.

Rather than it being negative if we do qualify.

I donít think this idea of weíll be ready for Europe after x, y, z is realistic.

As we know, you canít guarantee that youíll qualify this year, next year or the year after.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Bluedylan on December 22, 2017, 03:17:53 PM
I would.

Think we'd be a lot better prepared for it.

I don't really want is starting the season in July, in a World Cup year, with a squad that needs a massive overhaul.

It'll be a mess. I want Allardyce to have the best preparation possible going into the new season.

I love being in Europe, but it can become a hindrance at times.

You could send a squad of our best young'uns and backup players to rinse the qualifying rounds, Limassol style, with minimal disruption.

Still can't believe quite how badly Koeman dealt with it. Getting outplayed by fucking Ruzumberok.

Reckon if you gave Allardyce the choice, he'd want to be in it every time, and would back himself and his staff to deal with it quite comfortably.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 03:21:33 PM
You could send a squad of our best young'uns and backup players to rinse the qualifying rounds, Limassol style, with minimal disruption.

Still can't believe quite how badly Koeman dealt with it. Getting outplayed by fucking Ruzumberok.

Reckon if you gave Allardyce the choice, he'd want to be in it every time, and would back himself and his staff to deal with it quite comfortably.

He's not the only one though, is he? It seems to fuck everyone (apart from Fulham back in 2010).
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: van der Meyde on December 22, 2017, 04:18:26 PM
He's not the only one though, is he? It seems to fuck everyone (apart from Fulham back in 2010).
Correlation isn't causation though. The main problem I have with your idea is that most of the British teams that have started in the earliest rounds aren't actually that good to begin with.

You're talking about clubs who, in the main, qualified by fluking a cup runner's up place, finished 7th or lower, or worst of all qualified through the fair play league. Does starting seasons early every year hinder Celtic? Not really. Did it hurt Liverpool in 05-06? No. Is the Europa League hurting Arsenal? Arguably not.

When it's a good (or relatively good) team starting early or being in the Europa doesn't hinder league performances all that much really.

It's too easy to just blame the added games or Thursday night matches. It's more complicated than that.  Added games are part of it, obviously, but they're something we'll need to learn to deal with if we crack the top 4 anyway.

We came into this season missing 3 of our best players - a quarter of last season's starting line up - having not particularly replaced any of them. We had a dreadful opening run of fixtures and a manager who was still getting to grips with his best team.

There are loads of factors behind our poor start. Still we've, give or take, generally picked up points in the games we'd "expect" to as well. I wouldn't let what happened this season put us off starting early again next season personally.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: The Analog Kid on December 22, 2017, 04:38:38 PM
Dunno why weíre worrying about July games, weíll finish in the top four. On a fuckin roll arenít we.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ramjam on December 22, 2017, 04:56:43 PM
Dunno why we're worrying about July games, we'll finish in the top four. On a fuckin roll aren't we.

Letís wait and see what Saturday delivers before jumping to conclusions about how good weíre traveling, hoping for a point but canít see us getting anything
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 22, 2017, 05:13:46 PM
Correlation isn't causation though. The main problem I have with your idea is that most of the British teams that have started in the earliest rounds aren't actually that good to begin with.

You're talking about clubs who, in the main, qualified by fluking a cup runner's up place, finished 7th or lower, or worst of all qualified through the fair play league. Does starting seasons early every year hinder Celtic? Not really. Did it hurt Liverpool in 05-06? No. Is the Europa League hurting Arsenal? Arguably not.

When it's a good (or relatively good) team starting early or being in the Europa doesn't hinder league performances all that much really.

It's too easy to just blame the added games or Thursday night matches. It's more complicated than that.  Added games are part of it, obviously, but they're something we'll need to learn to deal with if we crack the top 4 anyway.

We came into this season missing 3 of our best players - a quarter of last season's starting line up - having not particularly replaced any of them. We had a dreadful opening run of fixtures and a manager who was still getting to grips with his best team.

There are loads of factors behind our poor start. Still we've, give or take, generally picked up points in the games we'd "expect" to as well. I wouldn't let what happened this season put us off starting early again next season personally.

Errrr... yea. I didn't say it was our only issue.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Escla on December 22, 2017, 05:14:27 PM
Letís wait and see what Saturday delivers before jumping to conclusions about how good weíre traveling, hoping for a point but canít see us getting anything

Agree, and if we donít get a point but are narrowly defeated that is no cause to panic/ fly the Allardyce Out plane over Goodison.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: The Analog Kid on December 22, 2017, 05:17:00 PM
Ay, I was joking yer know!?
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Ramjam on December 22, 2017, 05:18:46 PM
Agree, and if we don't get a point but are narrowly defeated that is no cause to panic/ fly the Allardyce Out plane over Goodison.

And I second that as well
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 22, 2017, 05:43:55 PM
I'd rather go full kilter at the top 6 next year. I'm not going to be unhappy if we get 7th and get into the qualifying rounds, but I'm going to be far from upset if we don't.

It's a bit silly to say you don't know or care about other sides, as that's the only barometer available.

No guarantee of getting 6th the following season. And then what? No decent players are going to want a join a team who don't play in Europe regularly.

To be honest, this whole Europe thing is nonsense. 7th in the table should not be given European competition anyway. Yet again, reward for failure, like the champions league is. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are not champions and shouldn't even be in that competition.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Lxxx on December 22, 2017, 06:48:25 PM
Come on lads, European football for us in any season has to seen as a success but this season especially so.
You canít achieve your goals and then say actually weíre not quite ready for it. You need to keep hitting them year after year which breeds a different mentality and then the extra games become part of your preparations and you adjust accordingly. Mentally, physically and financially. 
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Macca77 on December 22, 2017, 07:09:29 PM
Come on lads, European football for us in any season has to seen as a success but this season especially so.
You canít achieve your goals and then say actually weíre not quite ready for it. You need to keep hitting them year after year which breeds a different mentality and then the extra games become part of your preparations and you adjust accordingly. Mentally, physically and financially. 

I agree with this, but changes deffo need to be made to the Europa League, it's farcical at the moment.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Lxxx on December 22, 2017, 07:13:05 PM
I agree with this, but changes deffo need to be made to the Europa League, it's farcical at the moment.

I don't disagree but until such time we've got to just crack on with it. Sevilla seemed to adjust and thrive and they don't have the resources we have.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Jamokachi on December 23, 2017, 06:26:00 AM
I agree with this, but changes deffo need to be made to the Europa League, it's farcical at the moment.

This is my issue.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 23, 2017, 08:02:16 AM
7th place shouldnít even qualify anyway. Itís a joke.

The whole thing needs reforming.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: bluenuck on December 23, 2017, 01:54:51 PM
... Yet again, reward for failure, like the champions league is. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are not champions and shouldn't even be in that competition.

What are you saying?

That teams like United, Chelsea, atletico, Dortmund, and even sometimes Barcelona, shouldn't get in and the champions of slovakia and Croatia should automatically Qualify over them??

c'mon, man.

Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: Confucius on December 23, 2017, 03:34:22 PM
Take Europe every time and anytime no matter how.
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: eugene on December 23, 2017, 03:56:39 PM
We owe Big Sam nothing, yet.
I beg to differ we owe him for bringing back some dignity to our beloved club when the rest of the league laughed.
He put an end to shite Monday morning piss takes and gifs to my computer !
Title: Re: Europe next season?
Post by: blargins on December 23, 2017, 05:07:34 PM
What are you saying?

That teams like United, Chelsea, atletico, Dortmund, and even sometimes Barcelona, shouldn't get in and the champions of slovakia and Croatia should automatically Qualify over them??

c'mon, man.



I'm saying I would love to see it go back to how it was before as a knock out competition.

Champions league now is a farce. How can the likes of Arsenal be in it when they haven't been champions for years?

First place gets into the elite European competition. Second place FA Cup and League cup winners into the next Euro comp.

Increase the number of games in top divisions to take up the extra space available and make things more logical.