Post by: Topper on January 06, 2018, 06:29:11 AM
Yes at times he will lose the ball and it might be frustrating at times but I really think he has the potential to be a really good player if we could give him a run of games. I know some people said he should be sent out on loan like Dowell but surely seeing we have nothing to play for now (hopefully we aren't dragged back into the lower end of the table) it is an ideal time to give him a run in the Prem to give him & Vlasic some game time as I think it has showed how well Kenny is adapting to the league with game time and how he will hopefully become the natural successor to Seamus.
I think I am just worried that he will become frustrated at the lack of game time and ask for a move back down to London where he rips up the league and shows his potential. I know he can be raw but I do hope there is a diamond in there and we don't shoot ourselves in the foot by not giving the lad an opportunity.
Post by: brap2 on January 06, 2018, 06:30:34 AM
Post by: Ross on January 06, 2018, 06:46:32 AM
Post by: bluenuck on January 06, 2018, 01:50:09 PM
Let the kids fucking play. I'm sure they can get us 13 more points.
Post by: therealdunc on January 06, 2018, 02:01:57 PM
Gilfy much better in the middle
Post by: Juanito on January 06, 2018, 02:03:41 PM
As Kenny, Holgate, Davies and DCL have proved, by improving with first team football, so will Lookman. If these five stay together in and amongst the first team at Everton for a few years, we could have the nucleus of a very exciting young English side.
Post by: Rodenplav64 on January 06, 2018, 02:06:38 PM
Post by: Paddockoldie on January 06, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
If he doesn't get more oppertunities someone else will offer them... needs to know he's a first team choice and he's worth the chance. He deffo changes our attack when he comes on. Him and Bolasie out wide with Tosun in the middle. .. mmm
Post by: Lxxx on January 06, 2018, 03:21:11 PM
Needs to learn and grow like Dowell is doing.
Let’s be honest, these flashes don’t cover up the fact he’s not ready for Premier League football every week.
Post by: gizzblue on January 06, 2018, 05:23:23 PM
Post by: MexicanToffee on January 06, 2018, 10:43:44 PM
I wouldn’t be averse to him going elsewhere until the end of the season if he’s guaranteed a game every week.Yes, he still looks a little to raw but the flashes are very encouraging. Reminds me a lot of Adrian Heath when he first joined us and his diminutive size never held him back.
Needs to learn and grow like Dowell is doing.
Let’s be honest, these flashes don’t cover up the fact he’s not ready for Premier League football every week.
Post by: brap2 on January 07, 2018, 12:06:44 AM
Post by: Thomas on January 07, 2018, 06:36:05 PM
Post by: Polledreng on January 07, 2018, 06:43:47 PM
Yes, he still looks a little to raw but the flashes are very encouraging. Reminds me a lot of Adrian Heath when he first joined us and his diminutive size never held him back.If he will end up half the player Adrian was I'll be very pleased
Post by: eugene on January 07, 2018, 08:41:26 PM
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on January 07, 2018, 10:38:25 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on January 07, 2018, 10:44:02 PM
Agree. Absolutely no reason to send him out on loan, he's already spent his time in the lower divisions - he's not some academy player who has only played in the U23s
It's more if he's only going to be involved 1 game in every 5, then he might as well go and play at the top of the Championship or at the bottom of the Prem every week.
We've got fuck all to actually play for. Amongst other things, Allardyce will earn plenty of credit with the sceptics if he starts playing Lookman and Vlasic regularly and making them into full fledged Prem players for next season.
Post by: Escla on January 08, 2018, 02:14:11 AM
It's more if he's only going to be involved 1 game in every 5, then he might as well go and play at the top of the Championship or at the bottom of the Prem every week.Oops ! Didn’t mean to like (not disliking either) just wondering if in your view it is a problem if Allardyce got credit should he successfully make Lookman and Vlassic full fledged prem players for next season, surely that would be a good thing ?
We've got fuck all to actually play for. Amongst other things, Allardyce will earn plenty of credit with the sceptics if he starts playing Lookman and Vlasic regularly and making them into full fledged Prem players for next season.
Post by: Bluedylan on January 08, 2018, 02:54:43 AM
Oops ! Didn’t mean to like (not disliking either) just wondering if in your view it is a problem if Allardyce got credit should he successfully make Lookman and Vlassic full fledged prem players for next season, surely that would be a good thing ?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. A good way for Allardyce to appease the critics (which I'm one of) is to develop the better younger players into first teamers, as well as improving the football generally.
I'm attempting to be constructive, rather than just slagging him off.
Post by: Escla on January 08, 2018, 03:18:07 AM
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. A good way for Allardyce to appease the critics (which I'm one of) is to develop the better younger players into first teamers, as well as improving the football generally.
I'm attempting to be constructive, rather than just slagging him off.
I’m still confused ? So are you saying that you do not want Allardyce to succeed and get credit for it ? are you hoping that he fails ?
Post by: bogie on January 08, 2018, 03:28:47 AM
All the lads on the Celtic forum where raving about him after seeing his peformance vs the shite. They want him on loan haha
I really do think he needed to be loaned out but not in that league only real spot for him was to drop down one
if he had it in him (and I don't think he has yet ) then a loan to France would have been best move for him
Post by: Bluedylan on January 08, 2018, 04:02:59 AM
I’m still confused ? So are you saying that you do not want Allardyce to succeed and get credit for it ? are you hoping that he fails ?
No. I'm not sure what confuses you. I'll spell it out in completely unambiguous terms.
I wasn't in favour of him being appointed. He's done ok but the football hasn't convinced me at all.
So I was thinking what could he do to win me and other critics over, given that the season is over in terms of targets.
And an answer I came up with is helping to blood the young attacking players and develop them, along with improving the attacking play/ball possession.
Post by: Escla on January 08, 2018, 02:23:28 PM
No. I'm not sure what confuses you. I'll spell it out in completely unambiguous terms.
I wasn't in favour of him being appointed. He's done ok but the football hasn't convinced me at all.
So I was thinking what could he do to win me and other critics over, given that the season is over in terms of targets.
And an answer I came up with is helping to blood the young attacking players and develop them, along with improving the attacking play/ball possession.
There you go again, responding to polite queries in your trademark patronising tone. For what it’s worth I be.ive that our target is to finish as high in the table as possible.
Post by: Macca77 on January 08, 2018, 02:32:33 PM
There you go again, responding to polite queries in your trademark patronising tone. For what it’s worth I be.ive that our target is to finish as high in the table as possible.
Well yes, that's every clubs target.
Post by: Mick 1995 on January 08, 2018, 02:49:00 PM
There you go again, responding to polite queries in your trademark patronising tone. For what it’s worth I be.ive that our target is to finish as high in the table as possible.
Mate, you have utterly misread that entire conversation.
Obviously you missed the original point, which is fair enough - the written word can be a bit vague sometimes. No issues there. BD explained it in pretty simple terms and you asked for further clarification. There was no clearer he could have been so he stated that.
You've then inferred condecension in a response that contained none because of your opinion on who wrote it.
FWIW, BD has raised the first balanced point i've seen about Allardyce. As long as we agree to become proponants of the man if he meets our targets.
Finish as high as we can in the league? Yeah, true. But 7th playing dinosaur football with tried & tested players or 8th whilst bedding in the kids and making mistakes whilst teaching them a more expansive style?
I'd take the £750k hit (or whatever it is for a single league place nowadays)
Post by: Lxxx on January 08, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
What would be an achievement is if we got to the end of the season and had found a workable system, players in their right positions and a style of play which was both pleasing on the eye as well as giving us some kind of blueprint to go into our summer recruitment.
This has to be the aim now, not to solely to aim for the 7th place trophy.
Post by: Gary1878 on January 08, 2018, 04:10:53 PM
He clearly struggles with being the favourites though, and it is the performances at home against the lesser teams that will require some thought if he is to have any chance of staying beyond this season as Everton manager.
Post by: brap2 on January 08, 2018, 04:18:40 PM
Post by: Macca77 on January 08, 2018, 04:22:37 PM
Post by: eugene on January 08, 2018, 04:40:54 PM
Fuck all to play for from now til the end of the season, we won't be in any sort of relegation fight so there is no reason why we shouldnt be giving the fringe players like Lookman more time on the pitchCan’t agree more and let’s try and introduce a more attacking style dependant on filling our required positions.
It will be a gamble however it would enable us to hit the ground running next season.
Post by: gizzblue on January 08, 2018, 04:43:00 PM
Fuck all to play for from now til the end of the season, we won't be in any sort of relegation fight so there is no reason why we shouldnt be giving the fringe players like Lookman more time on the pitchIt's all down to the manager mentality from here now ....we will soon see if his park the bus will persist throughout the rest of the season (if so he will deffo be gone come end of the season).
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on January 08, 2018, 04:43:19 PM
Can’t agree more and let’s try and introduce a more attacking style dependant on filling our required positions.
It will be a gamble however it would enable us to hit the ground running next season.
Based on Sam's past he's likely to wait until we hit the 40 point mark before he starts to introduce more attacking play.
Post by: eugene on January 08, 2018, 04:46:30 PM
Based on Sam's past he's likely to wait until we hit the 40 point mark before he starts to introduce more attacking play.Last half hour depending on how the games are panning out perhaps,gradually introducing a more attack minded setup got to be the way forward
Post by: Lxxx on January 08, 2018, 04:56:50 PM
Last half hour depending on how the games are panning out perhaps,gradually introducing a more attack minded setup got to be the way forward
So we start with the last half hour and then progress from there. Okay. At that rate by the end of the season we'll just about be starting games with a positive mindset and will have wasted half a season.
Post by: eugene on January 08, 2018, 05:00:31 PM
So we start with the last half hour and then progress from there. Okay. At that rate by the end of the season we'll just about be starting games with a positive mindset and will have wasted half a season.We have nothing to play for only positions
Post by: Lxxx on January 08, 2018, 05:10:43 PM
We have nothing to play for only positions
Exactly, so why not start now then? We've just got a striker which we needed. We've got a genuine wide player back to fitness and we're in a window where we can potentially address other issues. Let's attempt to build a style of play for next season, not just consolidate our league position and then rest everything on summer recruitment, again.
Post by: GLewis on January 08, 2018, 05:14:30 PM
The game was wide open (comparatively) on Friday which suits Lookman as there’s space for him to run into.
Most of the games where complaints arrive aren’t like this so it’s far from a given that he’d play like he did the other night.
Therefore it’s unlikely that he’d be getting loads more game time; certainly not from the start of games unless he’s improving from most other appearances recently.
Post by: Cereal Killer on January 08, 2018, 05:23:56 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on January 08, 2018, 06:36:55 PM
There you go again, responding to polite queries in your trademark patronising tone. For what it’s worth I be.ive that our target is to finish as high in the table as possible.
Sound. Nice chatting with you.
Post by: therealdunc on January 08, 2018, 08:46:43 PM
Based on Sam's past he's likely to wait until we hit the 40 point mark before he starts to introduce more attacking play.
I disagree, the evidence of when he wasn’t relegation fireman sam is of a manager who changes his tactics to both maximise his teams strength and limit the oppositions.
He’s always done it.
If we had 2 brilliant wingers, no doubt we would be playing it down the flanks more.
If you look at the heat maps and the touches maps from his games thus far, we have had the Hall in central areas where most of the teams creative strength is aka rooney.
It’s only in recent games with bolasie that has started to move more out to the flanks.
He’s a pragmatic manager, not an ideologue like Martinez.
He will use his resources the way he deems best to maximise points from games .
And that’s exactly what we need if wholesale changes are not going to take place until the summer transfer window
Post by: D15TIN on January 08, 2018, 09:45:09 PM
Post by: Escla on January 09, 2018, 12:58:55 AM
Mate, you have utterly misread that entire conversation.Would have to disagree with you there, I was genuinely unsure whether BD was saying that Allardyce getting kudos was a good or a bad thing, to ME it was somewhat ambiguous, I felt that the response was somewhat condescending “I’ll spell it out for you” nothing to do with what you perceive as my “opinion”of BD, I frequently like his posts and do consider him a valued poster, but I would also like to finish 7th in The hope that we may qualify for Europe.
Obviously you missed the original point, which is fair enough - the written word can be a bit vague sometimes. No issues there. BD explained it in pretty simple terms and you asked for further clarification. There was no clearer he could have been so he stated that.
You've then inferred condecension in a response that contained none because of your opinion on who wrote it.
FWIW, BD has raised the first balanced point i've seen about Allardyce. As long as we agree to become proponants of the man if he meets our targets.
Finish as high as we can in the league? Yeah, true. But 7th playing dinosaur football with tried & tested players or 8th whilst bedding in the kids and making mistakes whilst teaching them a more expansive style?
I'd take the £750k hit (or whatever it is for a single league place nowadays)
Post by: eugene on January 09, 2018, 02:49:45 AM
Would have to disagree with you there, I was genuinely unsure whether BD was saying that Allardyce getting kudos was a good or a bad thing, to ME it was somewhat ambiguous, I felt that the response was somewhat condescending "I'll spell it out for you” nothing to do with what you perceive as my "opinion”of BD, I frequently like his posts and do consider him a valued poster, but I would also like to finish 7th in The hope that we may qualify for Europe.To be honest after this seasons toe dipping into Europe I would be happy to skip it next year and concentrate on getting a good team together then maybe the year after have a good run at Europe
Post by: brap2 on January 09, 2018, 03:04:46 AM
To be honest after this seasons toe dipping into Europe I would be happy to skip it next year and concentrate on getting a good team together then maybe the year after have a good run at Europe
If we were unable to fashion a team able to make a fist of it and likely get out of the group stage of the Europa league after January and the summer then we may as well pack it all in.
It’s important for the club to become accustomed to European competition, and it’s valuable from a revenue pov as well.
Plus, Thursday nights on the ale..
Post by: Heisenberg on January 09, 2018, 03:33:50 AM
To be honest after this seasons toe dipping into Europe I would be happy to skip it next year and concentrate on getting a good team together then maybe the year after have a good run at Europe
Nothing winds me up more than when people say they dont want europa. Whats the point then? so we can have less games to play next season so we can mount a real challenge for ...... the europa spots?
Post by: blargins on January 09, 2018, 08:00:24 AM
Funny how things are cyclic.
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 09, 2018, 03:03:31 PM
Bolasie for an hour, then lookman would be ideal
Post by: blue slug on January 09, 2018, 03:28:46 PM
Lookman should be used as an impact sub
Bolasie for an hour, then lookman would be ideal
I agree with you there jimmy, should be able to give him 20-30 minutes every game coming off the bench either wide left or right or even just behind the forward
Post by: Lxxx on January 09, 2018, 03:41:56 PM
I agree with you there jimmy, should be able to give him 20-30 minutes every game coming off the bench either wide left or right or even just behind the forward
Is this really enough to aid his development though? He's been here a year and hardly played really, at a time he should be learning his trade week in week out like Dowell. I think Sam needs to make a decision on the lad shortly. Is he going to use him enough to really contribute or would he be better served going playing every week elsewhere and then coming back in the summer with a bit more under his belt.
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 09, 2018, 03:55:46 PM
Is this really enough to aid his development though? He's been here a year and hardly played really, at a time he should be learning his trade week in week out like Dowell. I think Sam needs to make a decision on the lad shortly. Is he going to use him enough to really contribute or would he be better served going playing every week elsewhere and then coming back in the summer with a bit more under his belt.If he stays yes
I do think a loan may help tho
Post by: Heisenberg on February 04, 2018, 01:21:03 AM
Post by: Gumpinio on February 04, 2018, 01:25:12 AM
Post by: Ross on February 04, 2018, 01:28:54 AM
Post by: Trowel on February 04, 2018, 01:29:11 AM
https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/959870900488126464
Post by: BlueForYou on February 04, 2018, 01:29:57 AM
Post by: brap2 on February 04, 2018, 01:31:37 AM
club m8
Post by: SANA_DR0 on February 04, 2018, 01:39:32 AM
Post by: Macca77 on February 04, 2018, 01:41:46 AM
Post by: Lazarou on February 04, 2018, 01:42:55 AM
Post by: Martip on February 04, 2018, 01:56:12 AM
Post by: SANA_DR0 on February 04, 2018, 01:59:43 AM
Won't see him in a blue shirt again, to much ambition for us
why make me sads :(
Post by: Cozzie on February 04, 2018, 02:00:34 AM
Post by: bluenuck on February 04, 2018, 02:01:02 AM
Post by: brap2 on February 04, 2018, 02:30:28 AM
Post by: Cozzie on February 04, 2018, 02:34:41 AM
Spurs in the summer.
Nailed on.
Under pochettino, a proper coach, he will thrive.
Post by: Frevski on February 04, 2018, 04:28:15 PM
Don't need his sort here thank you very much.Care to elaborate?
Post by: plumber on February 04, 2018, 04:35:49 PM
And why on earth "we are losing" him? Because he played 12 minutes and scored on his debut? His only goal for us was also scored on his debut by the way.
Post by: Paddockoldie on February 04, 2018, 04:48:46 PM
Post by: toffee_scot on February 04, 2018, 07:44:15 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 04, 2018, 07:55:02 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/everton-arsenal-ademola-lookman-leipzig-goal-sam-allardyce-loan-short-termism-a8193656.htmlWell said that man
Post by: Confucius on February 04, 2018, 09:18:49 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on February 04, 2018, 09:24:36 PM
The longer he delays, the more precarious the club’s future appears. Allardyce has no interest in the long-term future of the club. Now is the time for Moshiri to prove that he does.
Post by: brap2 on February 04, 2018, 09:31:09 PM
Have to say it would spice up the rest of the year but I’d be mildly worried about going down tbh
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 04, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
Wow are they actually saying sack him and get silva in?I'm already worried about going down tbh
Have to say it would spice up the rest of the year but I'd be mildly worried about going down tbh
Post by: Evertonian in NC on February 04, 2018, 09:53:22 PM
I'm already worried about going down tbh
I think the bottom is so bad that 36 points = safety this year. We could stumble drunk and blind into 5 more points.
It's a heavy worry in my mind for next season if we don't immediately clean house at season's end and get some intelligent, progressive-minded football people in.
Post by: Lazarou on February 05, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on February 05, 2018, 05:41:38 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/feb/05/ademola-lookman-slips-slides-from-everton-into-leipzig-affections (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/feb/05/ademola-lookman-slips-slides-from-everton-into-leipzig-affections)
Wish we were run like RB Leipzig.
Post by: Macca77 on February 05, 2018, 05:46:13 PM
Post by: Lazarou on February 05, 2018, 06:20:37 PM
I still can't believe he has been allowed to go and not even to a lower club but to a better one, wtf does that say?
Post by: Lxxx on February 05, 2018, 06:54:40 PM
Post by: Lxxx on February 05, 2018, 06:59:23 PM
Wish we were run like RB Leipzig.
Imagine having a clear strategy on how to spend your money to safeguard your investment and create a self sustaining, successful business model. Bonkers isn't it.
In my mind this is why we need a new CEO, someone from the top drawer of commerce with the brains and gravitas to manage upwards as well as create a vision that the whole club, fans alike, buy into.
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 05, 2018, 06:59:39 PM
If he is a success at Leipzig, theres no way he will want to come back to a management team that so underrate him
Post by: mikey_blue on February 05, 2018, 06:59:46 PM
Wasn't Rangnick interviewed for the manager's job at the same time as Martinez?
Her certainly was. It's all worked out quite well, hasn't it?
Post by: sam of the south on February 05, 2018, 08:24:07 PM
Her certainly was. It's all worked out quite well, hasn't it?
For him it has, yes
Post by: dazfrancis on February 05, 2018, 08:47:30 PM
I'm a big fan of Lookman and really want him to do well but he's only played 12 mins for Leipzig.
He scored after 1 min of his debut for us against the current league leaders but couldn't consistently put it together for 90 mins.
The reasoning for sending him to the championship would have been that it is similar to the Premier League in terms of physicality and he would have got more opportunities compared to Leipzig where he will face more competition for his place. However, maybe the less physical nature of the German league might benefit him.
Hopefully, after this blistering start he gets the opportunity to do it consistently over 90 mins for a run of games before the end of the season.
It's also good for him to be as far away from this pile of bollocks as possible at the moment
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 05, 2018, 09:00:52 PM
We're in danger of going a bit overboard here.
I'm a big fan of Lookman and really want him to do well but he's only played 12 mins for Leipzig.
He scored after 1 min of his debut for us against the current league leaders but couldn't consistently put it together for 90 mins.
The reasoning for sending him to the championship would have been that it is similar to the Premier League in terms of physicality and he would have got more opportunities compared to Leipzig where he will face more competition for his place. However, maybe the less physical nature of the German league might benefit him.
Hopefully, after this blistering start he gets the opportunity to do it consistently over 90 mins for a run of games before the end of the season.
It's also good for him to be as far away from this pile of bollocks as possible at the moment
Was he even given a chance?
I can't remember if ever got 2 consecutive 90 minutes under his belt.
Post by: Escla on February 05, 2018, 09:08:49 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/feb/05/ademola-lookman-slips-slides-from-everton-into-leipzig-affections (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/feb/05/ademola-lookman-slips-slides-from-everton-into-leipzig-affections)
Well we well and truly fucked that one up didn’t we ! Want the banners out and Unsy/Royle back untill the end of the season, they can get the 9 points we need, sack Walsh and Allardyce before Saturday and collect the first three points.
Post by: Escla on February 05, 2018, 09:11:55 PM
We're in danger of going a bit overboard here.
I'm a big fan of Lookman and really want him to do well but he's only played 12 mins for Leipzig.
He scored after 1 min of his debut for us against the current league leaders but couldn't consistently put it together for 90 mins.
The reasoning for sending him to the championship would have been that it is similar to the Premier League in terms of physicality and he would have got more opportunities compared to Leipzig where he will face more competition for his place. However, maybe the less physical nature of the German league might benefit him.
Hopefully, after this blistering start he gets the opportunity to do it consistently over 90 mins for a run of games before the end of the season.
It's also good for him to be as far away from this pile of bollocks as possible at the moment
On current form wouldn’t put it past Allardyce/Walsh/Moshiri accepting an offer from Leipzig for him clause or no clause.
Post by: kramer0 on February 05, 2018, 09:42:13 PM
I think Evertonians would love a high-pressing team. It's unfortunate that we're so far away from having one. We could probably could have made a convincing offer for someone like Schmidt or Hutter when we hired Allardyce but it would have been suicide to do it with this squad. It would even be risky to do it this summer given the amount of turnover necessary to get the right players.
Post by: blue slug on February 05, 2018, 11:10:30 PM
Post by: bluenuck on February 06, 2018, 12:19:16 AM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/evertons-transfer-plan-flawed-as-ademola-lookman-lights-up-leipzig-hg9p6vqq8
Post by: Juanito on February 06, 2018, 03:13:41 AM
Don't know if this has been posted.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/evertons-transfer-plan-flawed-as-ademola-lookman-lights-up-leipzig-hg9p6vqq8
This is more like it, Allardyce being questioned in the media and Walsh too.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 06, 2018, 04:08:36 AM
Post by: bluenuck on February 06, 2018, 05:44:18 AM
The headline confession that he had borrowed the game plan of Swansea City, who had beaten Arsène Wenger’s side four days earlier, and attempted to replicate it overlooked the reality that he has different players. For a start he has Michael Keane, not Alfie Mawson, in his defence.
However, it was the reasoning behind his insistence that Ademola Lookman would have made no difference to an abject 5-1 reverse at the Emirates that served to expose the sheer scale of the mess that has enveloped Everton.
“No,” Allardyce said. “We’ve got £20 million Theo Walcott and £30 million Yannick Bolasie and if you’d put him [Lookman] out there he wouldn’t have done any better than the rest because the whole team played crap.”
Never mind that Lookman had just stepped off the substitutes’ bench for Champions League-chasing RB Leipzig in his first game after his deadline day loan move to Germany, streaked past Borussia Mönchengladbach’s retreating defenders before finding the corner of the net in a cutting cameo that his parent club have been crying out for this season.
By Allardyce’s rationale, £21 million Cenk Tosun would have come on before £1.5million Dominic Calvert-Lewin in the second half. That the Turkey forward did not is something else for Everton to worry about. Everton are surely the last club that should be equating price tags to quality given the bucket loads of money they have wasted over the past 18-months in arguably the worst spending spree in football history and one which has left director of football, Steve Walsh, enduring death by 200 million cuts.
Competition is tough but Lookman may actually stand as the most pertinent symbol of Everton’s flawed transfer strategy.
One tranche of Walsh’s policy was to recruit the best youngsters in the country. Lookman arrived from Charlton Athletic last January for £11 million only to become so desperate to leave within 12 months due to a lack of opportunities that he was prepared to go against Everton’s wishes by moving to the Bundesliga rather than Championship high-fliers Derby County.
One of the Merseyside club’s unique selling points has been their willingness to give youth a chance and they can reel out the statistics that point out that they have given more minutes to youngsters than any other top-flight club this season. Yet examine that more closely and the burden was placed on them because a replacement for Romelu Lukaku was not immediately recruited.
Jonjoe Kenny has played primarily because of injuries, while Tom Davies has been in and out of the side during a difficult second season.
Allardyce was brought in to steer the club away from the relegation zone. He will do that despite the weekend embarrassment. But Everton are not just losing games, they are in danger of losing their identity.
Post by: Thomas on February 06, 2018, 06:32:28 AM
Don't know if this has been posted.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/evertons-transfer-plan-flawed-as-ademola-lookman-lights-up-leipzig-hg9p6vqq8
I genuinely cannot understand him stating he felt Leipzig was 'beyond' Lookman yet the lad scores the winner the other night...
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on February 06, 2018, 06:38:29 AM
I genuinely cannot understand him stating he felt Leipzig was 'beyond' Lookman yet the lad scores the winner the other night...
Did he actually say that though, that Leipzig was 'beyond' him? From the interview I saw he just said it's a tough league and he didn't want him to leave.
Post by: bluenuck on February 06, 2018, 06:40:02 AM
I genuinely cannot understand him stating he felt Leipzig was 'beyond' Lookman yet the lad scores the winner the other night...
I said it in the transfer thread that he'll love that league. It's a great league for attacking players with creative and imaginative head coaches. You won't see guys like Pardew, Allardyce and Pulis coaching in that league.
Post by: Thomas on February 06, 2018, 06:40:26 AM
Did he actually say that though, that Leipzig was 'beyond' him? From the interview I saw he just said it's a tough league and he didn't want him to leave.
Not but thats basically how i interpreted it. I also believe SA didn't want him here. Just instinct.
Post by: bluenuck on February 06, 2018, 08:05:57 AM
Did he actually say that though, that Leipzig was 'beyond' him? From the interview I saw he just said it's a tough league and he didn't want him to leave.
I believe he said it was tough because he won't know the language. From what I know Leipzig have at least 6 non Germans who are constantly in and out of the starting 11.
Post by: Fynci on February 10, 2018, 03:55:20 AM
Post by: BlueForYou on February 10, 2018, 02:57:43 PM
Post by: Lxxx on February 10, 2018, 03:48:45 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 10, 2018, 04:48:08 PM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on February 10, 2018, 04:56:11 PM
Surely if this continues we'll have to concede allardyce was right and he shouldn't have gone there. Not much point sending someone out on loan so they can play 10 minutes a week. He needs a loan where he's playing most of the minutesWe know he’s got the ability to come on and change games. He needs to prove he can look after the ball and contribute to the team over 90 mins.
Post by: Cassius on February 10, 2018, 05:18:01 PM
Surely if this continues we'll have to concede allardyce was right and he shouldn't have gone there. Not much point sending someone out on loan so they can play 10 minutes a week. He needs a loan where he's playing most of the minutes
Kid's been in Germany for 10 days. He's two games in.
Can hardly write him off as a 10 min sub and concede either side was right at this stage.
Post by: AllyBlue14 on February 10, 2018, 05:19:17 PM
As has been said, he should have been out on loan from the start of the season to continue his education. The fact that he was one of our only fit genuine wide players at the time shows the shortcomings in our summer transfer activity.
I'd also say this has nothing really to do with Allardyce - Lookman isn't going to displace Walcott and we need Sigurdsson to babysit Martina until Baines is back. Bolasie is an option too but has still to prove that he can remember how to actually play football.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 10, 2018, 06:45:43 PM
Kid's been in Germany for 10 days. He's two games in.
Can hardly write him off as a 10 min sub and concede either side was right at this stage.
lolol man I thought exactly the same
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 06:54:10 PM
Kid's been in Germany for 10 days. He's two games in.
Can hardly write him off as a 10 min sub and concede either side was right at this stage.
Yeah as you say it should be remembered both ways.
At the end of the season let’s see what’s happened.
Post by: Shogun on February 10, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
Post by: brap2 on February 10, 2018, 06:58:26 PM
Kid's been in Germany for 10 days. He's two games in.
Can hardly write him off as a 10 min sub and concede either side was right at this stage.
Also he might benefit from the coaching.
Post by: Ross on February 10, 2018, 07:02:34 PM
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 07:12:23 PM
What’s the lad thinking? He could have been watching Derby Norwich today, some of these young English players just want to pick up their massive wages and have no fucking ambition if you ask me.
Well from a selfish point of view if he’s angling for a move then it’s not great, is it?
We want his ambition to be to play for us, going against club wishes doesn’t look great at this point (ignoring obvious issues from our side).
If he didn’t play for us then I’d think it was a great move for him, though.
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 07:13:16 PM
It’s not really the same role, he wasn’t even getting substitute appearances for us.
Ha this is true.
But odd cameos aren’t his problem.
Post by: Ross on February 10, 2018, 07:17:48 PM
Well from a selfish point of view if he’s angling for a move then it’s not great, is it?
We want his ambition to be to play for us, going against club wishes doesn’t look great at this point (ignoring obvious issues from our side).
If he didn’t play for us then I’d think it was a great move for him, though.
Can you blame him for going against the clubs suggestions with regards to a loan?
Look at the players we’ve had out over the last 2 years, there’s been far more badly advised loan deals than good. In fact other than Dowell who’s worked out?
Post by: blargins on February 10, 2018, 07:19:51 PM
It’s not really the same role, he wasn’t even getting substitute appearances for us.
He was at first.
Scored on his debut for us as well. Then nothing until a meaningless game.
Think he has something about him, and I hope he stays as he could develop into a decent player.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 10, 2018, 07:39:17 PM
The odds are allardyce was right. Time will tell though.
Post by: van der Meyde on February 10, 2018, 08:11:13 PM
Can you blame him for going against the clubs suggestions with regards to a loan?Jonjoe Kenny at Wigan/Oxford. Liam Walsh at Yeovil.
Look at the players we’ve had out over the last 2 years, there’s been far more badly advised loan deals than good. In fact other than Dowell who’s worked out?
This season: Joe Williams at Barnsley, Callum Connolly at Ipswich, Antonee Robinson at Bolton.
Plenty of bad ones though, aye. I tend to think going off to Germany, playing in different tactical systems with and against good players will be better for Lookman than Derby personally.
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 09:54:54 PM
Jonjoe Kenny at Wigan/Oxford. Liam Walsh at Yeovil.
This season: Joe Williams at Barnsley, Callum Connolly at Ipswich, Antonee Robinson at Bolton.
Plenty of bad ones though, aye. I tend to think going off to Germany, playing in different tactical systems with and against good players will be better for Lookman than Derby personally.
Yeah I just don’t think he’s doing it for us.
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 09:56:19 PM
Can you blame him for going against the clubs suggestions with regards to a loan?
Look at the players we’ve had out over the last 2 years, there’s been far more badly advised loan deals than good. In fact other than Dowell who’s worked out?
No if it was me I’d want to play for Leipzig.
But I’m just thinking from efc point of view.
Post by: van der Meyde on February 10, 2018, 09:58:50 PM
Yeah I just don’t think he’s doing it for us.I wouldn't expect any player to though.
And with 3 years left on his contract, he doesn't really hold all the cards either.
Post by: van der Meyde on February 10, 2018, 10:01:15 PM
No if it was me I’d want to play for Leipzig.Would also add that even if he was putting himself in the shop window somewhat at Leipzig, the same would be true at Derby.
But I’m just thinking from efc point of view.
EFC's perspective might be that he's better off at Derby, but given some of the loan moves our players have had recently, they're not necessarily right. Tom Lawrence has been one of Derby's best players this season and he plays in the same position as Lookman, for example.
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 10:02:23 PM
I wouldn't expect any player to though.
And with 3 years left on his contract, he doesn't really hold all the cards either.
I’d expect a young player too, I think.
Derby at the moment is what you’d class as a standard, experience gaining loan.
Leipzig isn’t an obvious choice as a) not guaranteed to start b) the league isn’t as relevant.
So if people are hammering the club then it should be remembered that he might not want to be here. Which normally doesn’t go down well.
Post by: van der Meyde on February 10, 2018, 11:44:31 PM
I’d expect a young player too, I think.I'm not sure I'd agree with that.
On the face of it, Derby might make more sense to Everton but, in general, I don't think we've really put a lot of thought into some of these development loans. Galloway going off on loan to a Pulis side last season was always a massive risk, for example. Did we loan to them because we thought that was the best option at the time - or did they, perhaps, just pay us the biggest fee?
I suspect youth players are going to become more powerful in this regard in the near future. The player (and their agents!) have much more at stake than the club in these matters after all.
Post by: GLewis on February 10, 2018, 11:47:40 PM
I'm not sure I'd agree with that.
On the face of it, Derby might make more sense to Everton but, in general, I don't think we've really put a lot of thought into some of these development loans. Galloway going off on loan to a Pulis side last season was always a massive risk, for example. Did we loan to them because we thought that was the best option at the time - or did they, perhaps, just pay us the biggest fee?
I suspect youth players are going to become more powerful in this regard in the near future. The player (and their agents!) have much more at stake than the club in these matters after all.
Maybe!
We’ll see if he’s improved with more appearances for us next season ;)
Post by: van der Meyde on February 10, 2018, 11:52:03 PM
Maybe!I suspect his decision making will have improved, but we won't be able to rely on him defensively. :)
We’ll see if he’s improved with more appearances for us next season ;)
Post by: Lxxx on February 11, 2018, 04:03:34 AM
Post by: Heisenberg on February 11, 2018, 04:16:44 AM
Post by: Lxxx on February 11, 2018, 04:17:34 AM
I mean the 90 minute match they play every weekend is just a snippet of a footballers week really. Will be much more beneficial to him training every day with world class coaching and team mates than getting vollied by a bunch of yard dogs for 90mins of a weekend in the championship. He's already proven he can do it in the championship
He came from League One.
Post by: Heisenberg on February 11, 2018, 04:18:46 AM
He came from League One.
My point still stands
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on February 11, 2018, 05:03:57 AM
There have been rumours around for a while that he was homesick. Which might have played into his choice of wanting a clean break and to experience somewhere completely new and different rather than moving to another place in the UK just to be homesick in a different city here.
Homesick young English footballers don’t go to Germany to get over said homesickness.
Post by: Lxxx on February 11, 2018, 05:15:44 AM
Homesick young English footballers don’t go to Germany to get over said homesickness.
I think my post was pretty self explanatory
Post by: GLewis on February 12, 2018, 12:36:30 AM
I mean the 90 minute match they play every weekend is just a snippet of a footballers week really. Will be much more beneficial to him training every day with world class coaching and team mates than getting vollied by a bunch of yard dogs for 90mins of a weekend in the championship. He's already proven he can do it in the championship
You’d never send players out on loan if that was the case as we’d always have better facilities coaches than lower league sides.
I can see the argument that if he gets 30 min run outs for them then that’s better than 90 mins at championship level.
But training doesn’t have the risk factor that real games do.
Post by: Heisenberg on February 12, 2018, 04:14:00 AM
You’d never send players out on loan if that was the case as we’d always have better facilities coaches than lower league sides.
I can see the argument that if he gets 30 min run outs for them then that’s better than 90 mins at championship level.
But training doesn’t have the risk factor that real games do.
I get your point that game time is important. But to a player like Lookman I really think he's better off with say 15 mins in a top league that 60 in a lower league where they'll boot him everywhere due to his style
Post by: GLewis on February 12, 2018, 06:32:34 PM
I get your point that game time is important. But to a player like Lookman I really think he's better off with say 15 mins in a top league that 60 in a lower league where they'll boot him everywhere due to his style
My worry with cameos is that he’s likely to be used with a remit of go one and try something.
Whereas it looks like he needs the pressure of the responsibility that starting games brings.
Post by: Polledreng on February 12, 2018, 06:55:32 PM
I get your point that game time is important. But to a player like Lookman I really think he's better off with say 15 mins in a top league that 60 in a lower league where they'll boot him everywhere due to his styleAt the moment he gets 10 minutes so hope that improves... Then Again it was 10 minutes more than Sandro
Post by: Juanito on February 12, 2018, 07:19:27 PM
Post by: Alanvideo on February 12, 2018, 08:15:34 PM
Post by: hannu on February 12, 2018, 08:17:26 PM
Good on the lad, would rather take the risk and live in Germany for a team fighting for the champions league, rather than live in Derby. Shows confidence and ambiton. More English players should do it to stretch themselves.
ive lived in derby for 6 months dont blame the lad
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 12, 2018, 08:33:02 PM
Was Lookman intended to go into the first team when he signed ? I thought he was one for the future .If he hadn't scored his goal we might not be having this conversation.Koeman In a press conference said he was bought for the first team when we got him.
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 05:33:55 PM
we have 4 out in the champ that are getting real game time and all 4 doing well for the teams they are at 1 other out there not doing to well but hey 4 out of 5 is great news
Post by: gizzblue on February 13, 2018, 05:37:56 PM
so 2 games in he has played what 19 mins19 mins more than your Messiah was giving him here though .
we have 4 out in the champ that are getting real game time and all 4 doing well for the teams they are at 1 other out there not doing to well but hey 4 out of 5 is great news
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 05:43:07 PM
19 mins more than your Messiah was giving him here though .
see even you are getting it now Big Sam came in and saved us you took your time getting there but you got there in the end
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
19 mins more than your Messiah was giving him here though .
also I did say in the summer he needed to go out on loan and got hammered in here for it and oh look he is out on loan
Post by: BlueMaquis on February 13, 2018, 05:49:37 PM
also I did say in the summer he needed to go out on loan and got hammered in here for it and oh look he is out on loan
Doesn't prove he needed to though, does it?
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 05:54:47 PM
Doesn't prove he needed to though, does it?
you tell yourself what ever makes you happy
take the 4th goal v man city out and he was/is nothing but a kid learning the game and needing game time he would have got more game time in the champ for sure
the sad thing is this might be the end of him at Everton
Post by: gizzblue on February 13, 2018, 06:28:21 PM
also I did say in the summer he needed to go out on loan and got hammered in here for it and oh look he is out on loanI actually said "your" Messiah as you and one other(who's no longer around see it that way) ....
Go on then you think you know it all ,defend Sam over the Arsenal result .
**Grabs popcorn. ..this should be good .**.
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 06:40:06 PM
I actually said "your" Messiah as you and one other(who's no longer around see it that way) ....
Go on then you think you know it all ,defend Sam over the Arsenal result .
**Grabs popcorn. ..this should be good .**.
3-1 at the weekend he rested players in a game that even with the players he rested we would most likely lose sad but it is what it is and I think everyone seen that even the haters
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 13, 2018, 06:42:44 PM
3-1 at the weekend he rested players in a game that even with the players he rested we would most likely lose sad but it is what it is and I think everyone seen that even the hatersSo you think getting beat 5 1 to a poor Arsenal side, where we made no effort to exploit their defence, no effort to really attack because of his tactics and how he set us up is ok cos we beat Palace?
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 06:51:15 PM
So you think getting beat 5 1 to a poor Arsenal side, where we made no effort to exploit their defence, no effort to really attack because of his tactics and how he set us up is ok cos we beat Palace?
no but it is what it is and it was not just down to how we set up there was a lot of players on that pitch that were shit pure shit and need to be gone asap if that game helps them at the club see it faster then we took something form the game
jimmy are last 3 games before a ball was kicked would you have took 6 points (yes ) did we get 6 points yes job done well managed and now with 13 days to get ready for the next game all be it away form home I can see us winning it and that is a new feeling thinking we can win away form home
Post by: TheRam on February 13, 2018, 06:54:00 PM
no but it is what it is and it was not just down to how we set up there was a lot of players on that pitch that were shit pure shit and need to be gone asap if that game helps them at the club see it faster then we took something form the game
jimmy are last 3 games before a ball was kicked would you have took 6 points (yes ) did we get 6 points yes job done well managed and now with 13 days to get ready for the next game all be it away form home I can see us winning it and that is a new feeling thinking we can win away form home
So, manager takes credit for the wins, players take the blame for defeats?
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 06:56:42 PM
So, manager takes credit for the wins, players take the blame for defeats?
no not all the time but if you want to defend that lot of crap on the pitch that day go for it
it works both ways ram you cant blame sam every time we lose and then not thank him every time we win
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 13, 2018, 07:11:39 PM
Cause it fucking baffled me at the time.
Post by: Shogun on February 13, 2018, 07:15:13 PM
We made them look like peak Barca
Post by: Macca77 on February 13, 2018, 07:18:49 PM
Look at Arsenal in their two games before that match and their match that followed.
We made them look like peak Barca
To be fair we'd make West Brom look like Barca at the minute
Post by: Lxxx on February 13, 2018, 07:27:22 PM
To be fair we'd make West Brom look like Barca at the minute
We did a few weeks ago. It's only because Rondon can't hit a barn door we didn't get spanked.
Post by: gizzblue on February 13, 2018, 08:02:47 PM
3-1 at the weekend he rested players in a game that even with the players he rested we would most likely lose sad but it is what it is and I think everyone seen that even the hatersIf players can't play two games in a week
....why the fuck even have a champions league ,fa cup, Europa league etc etc etc ...
Spoiled my popcorn was expecting at least a coherent argument ...but again like Sam no real idea or thought as to what's going on .
Post by: Macca77 on February 13, 2018, 08:30:19 PM
3-1 at the weekend he rested players in a game that even with the players he rested we would most likely lose sad but it is what it is and I think everyone seen that even the haters
Let's get one thing clear here, he didn't rest the players against Arsenal, he picked an extremely negative team in the hope of holding out for a draw, the tactics worked well for just over 4 minutes.
"We would most likely lose" - yes I get this but Arsenal had just lost at Swansea, and were in poor form, they were there for the taking, and he set the game up perfectly for them, it was a complete embarrassment, as was him blaming the players at every opportunity afterwards
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 10:47:22 PM
Let's get one thing clear here, he didn't rest the players against Arsenal, he picked an extremely negative team in the hope of holding out for a draw, the tactics worked well for just over 4 minutes.
"We would most likely lose" - yes I get this but Arsenal had just lost at Swansea, and were in poor form, they were there for the taking, and he set the game up perfectly for them, it was a complete embarrassment, as was him blaming the players at every opportunity afterwards
and just signed how mush in attacking players £100m was it or more and all that crap that was going on with greedy balls is over
any fan would take Arsenal,s home record this year bar top 3/4 away record is were they are getting let down
Post by: Ross on February 13, 2018, 10:54:19 PM
and just signed how mush in attacking players £100m was it or more and all that crap that was going on with greedy balls is over
any fan would take Arsenal,s home record this year bar top 3/4 away record is were they are getting let down
There’s a massive difference between going away to Arsenal and expecting a tough game and going there all lubed up ready for a proper buggering.
Post by: Macca77 on February 13, 2018, 10:57:41 PM
and just signed how mush in attacking players £100m was it or more and all that crap that was going on with greedy balls is over
any fan would take Arsenal,s home record this year bar top 3/4 away record is were they are getting let down
Doesn't matter how much they spent and on who, 3500 Everton fans paid good money to go see that game in the hope we came away with something, the team selection and tactics was a smack in the face to all of them, just added more to the growing proof that Allardyce doesn't give a shit about us.
Post by: Polledreng on February 13, 2018, 11:03:40 PM
and just signed how mush in attacking players £100m was it or more and all that crap that was going on with greedy balls is overdont tell Big Sam He used the same tactic as Swansea without knowing that Arsenal away is another team than Arsenal at home. The sooner he is gone the better.
any fan would take Arsenal,s home record this year bar top 3/4 away record is were they are getting let down
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:04:18 PM
There’s a massive difference between going away to Arsenal and expecting a tough game and going there all lubed up ready for a proper buggering.
he did not go there looking to get done 5-1 he went there trying something that did not work but on the other hand made sure we had the best bet of getting 6 points form 9
if you think for 1 min he did not give a fuck about the 5-1 then your even more a hater than it seems
if the players on the pitch had a bit more about them and lost it 2-1 3-2 what ever it would have been seen as trying something new
but the players were shit and that's a fact
did anyone on here think we were going to go there and win with the same setup we have being playing all season ?
one other thing how many times did Moyes lose 4/5 to them and he got 10 years here !
Post by: Cereal Killer on February 13, 2018, 11:05:49 PM
So Lookman..... is he eligible to play in Europe for them??
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:06:05 PM
dont tell Big Sam He used the same tactic as Swansea without knowing that Arsenal away is another team than Arsenal at home. The sooner he is gone the better.
he will be here next year so suck it up lad
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:09:32 PM
Doesn't matter how much they spent and on who, 3500 Everton fans paid good money to go see that game in the hope we came away with something, the team selection and tactics was a smack in the face to all of them, just added more to the growing proof that Allardyce doesn't give a shit about us.
were did he say he did not give a shit about us
if he did not give a shit we would be in the bottom 3 and he would be gone with a big pay day and at his age it would not hurt any job hunt
Post by: Polledreng on February 13, 2018, 11:11:07 PM
he will be here next year so suck it up ladMy god are you his son. And please dont Call me lad. If he is here next season I’ll have to put my season ticket on StubHub. Did you go to Spurs ? Did you go to Arsenal ? If you Think even our board Think thats good enough for Everton I’m afraid you are in for a shock
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:20:01 PM
My god are you his son. And please dont Call me lad. If he is here next season I’ll have to put my season ticket on StubHub. Did you go to Spurs ? Did you go to Arsenal ? If you Think even our board Think thats good enough for Everton I’m afraid you are in for a shock
did you go to any games before he got here (this season not 30 years ago ) some mind blowing football played then (if you were smoking the same shit as Koeman )
Post by: Ross on February 13, 2018, 11:24:12 PM
he did not go there looking to get done 5-1 he went there trying something that did not work but on the other hand made sure we had the best bet of getting 6 points form 9
if you think for 1 min he did not give a fuck about the 5-1 then your even more a hater than it seems
if the players on the pitch had a bit more about them and lost it 2-1 3-2 what ever it would have been seen as trying something new
but the players were shit and that's a fact
did anyone on here think we were going to go there and win with the same setup we have being playing all season ?
one other thing how many times did Moyes lose 4/5 to them and he got 10 years here !
He went there with our two most productive players banished to the bench (never to get off it), packing a defence with as many bodies as possible and trying to protect them with two defensive players planted 10 yards ahead of them. Clearly the game plan wasn’t to get beat 5-1 but it was to keep it to a minimum and that plan went out the window after 5 mintutes, in fact it went so far out the window after another 30 minuets it’d left the postcode and boarded a train home like most fans.
Oh and please let’s not pretend we should be prioritising a home game against a team in the bottom half of the table who’d won only two away games all season seven days later as that’s a weaker excuse than Allardyce saying he wanted us to copy Swansea and the players didn’t do it.
On the Moyes thing, did you ever explain how somebody like yourself can have so much hatred for a man who did so well at our club for so long, to a point of getting yourself banned from other forums, to resolutely worshipping a manager who’s never even achieved half of what Moyes did in his time here?
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:32:36 PM
He went there with our two most productive players banished to the bench (never to get off it), packing a defence with as many bodies as possible and trying to protect them with two defensive players planted 10 yards ahead of them. Clearly the game plan wasn’t to get beat 5-1 but it was to keep it to a minimum and that plan went out the window after 5 mintutes, in fact it went so far out the window after another 30 minuets it’d left the postcode and boarded a train home like most fans.
Oh and please let’s not pretend we should be prioritising a home game against a team in the bottom half of the table who’d won only two away games all season seven days later as that’s a weaker excuse than Allardyce saying he wanted us to copy Swansea and the players didn’t do it.
On the Moyes thing, did you ever explain how somebody like yourself can have so much hatred for a man who did so well at our club for so long, to a point of getting yourself banned from other forums, to resolutely worshipping a manager who’s never even achieved half of what Moyes did in his time here?
Moyes tell me or even better show me were all my hate for Moyes is
I would of and still would have him back here if just to see what he could do with an Everton team with a few bob
so any crap you have about me hatting Moyes is all in your head or it could just be that anything I say or type you will jump on because I for one will not get onbroad with the Big Sam hate club
I did not like the way he left it was a bit under handed yes but would love to see what he could do with us with money and that will always be there
Post by: Ross on February 13, 2018, 11:34:34 PM
Moyes tell me or even better show me were all my hate for Moyes is
I would of and still would have him back here if just to see what he could do with an Everton team with a few bob
so any crap you have about me hatting Moyes is all in your head or it could just be that anything I say or type you will jump on because I for one will not get onbroad with the Big Sam hate club
I did not like the way he left it was a bit under handed yes but would love to see what he could do with us with money and that will always be there
You must have posted about that under your other username.
Post by: Polledreng on February 13, 2018, 11:36:35 PM
did you go to any games before he got here (this season not 30 years ago ) some mind blowing football played then (if you were smoking the same shit as Koeman )As I'm a seasonticketholder you should know the answer. And yes the football was as mind blowing as now - and it got Koeman sacked
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:38:37 PM
You must have posted about that under your other username.
yeah sure I did
you can get tablets for that now
who was that WWE guy that hear voices in his head
Post by: bogie on February 13, 2018, 11:40:12 PM
As I'm a seasonticketholder you should know the answer. And yes the football was as mind blowing as now - and it got Koeman sacked
and the demanding of players to be signed that were/are shit had a BIG part to play in it
Post by: Audrey Horne on February 14, 2018, 12:44:51 AM
Post by: blue slug on February 14, 2018, 02:52:25 AM
Why are there so many thick people on this forum?
I was going to like your comment but I might be one of the said thick people
Post by: TheRam on February 14, 2018, 02:59:04 AM
yeah sure I did
you can get tablets for that now
who was that WWE guy that hear voices in his head
Al snow
Post by: Goaljira on February 14, 2018, 03:04:00 AM
Al snow
I thought he meant Benoit and didnt want to post about it. Al Snow makes more sense.
Post by: brap2 on February 14, 2018, 03:50:01 AM
Let shite like xhaka have the ball and he’ll make you look shit. Get Tom Davies up his arsehole from minute dot and he’d shit his kecks.
Is what it is though.
Post by: benny on February 14, 2018, 04:11:28 AM
I was going to like your comment but I might be one of the said thick peoplenod
Post by: BlueForYou on February 14, 2018, 02:41:49 PM
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 14, 2018, 02:49:13 PM
I thought he meant Benoit and didnt want to post about it. Al Snow makes more sense.
spat my coffee out laughing at that, ya prick hahaha
Post by: Toddacelli on February 16, 2018, 08:10:38 PM
Why are there so many thick people on this forum?
Shit.
I don't even know the answer to this.
:bonk:
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 20, 2018, 01:36:50 AM
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 20, 2018, 01:50:16 AM
Starts tonight. Just kicked offThis is the best argument for me about needing Sam to leave at the end of the season regardless of results.
We can only compete by bringing in young players and develop them ourselves as already complete players will either move above us or will cost a bomb.
Terrified of losing our young core me.
Post by: TheRam on February 20, 2018, 01:52:12 AM
Post by: Bigstickytoffee on February 20, 2018, 01:58:40 AM
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 20, 2018, 02:08:50 AM
Post by: kramer0 on February 20, 2018, 02:12:09 AM
Post by: kramer0 on February 20, 2018, 02:45:36 AM
They can't start the second half because supporters keep throwing tennis balls on the pitch.
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2018, 02:50:21 AM
Reeeeeally don’t love the thought of Keïta threading balls to Salah and Mane all next year 🤢🤢
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 20, 2018, 02:50:43 AM
This is the best argument for me about needing Sam to leave at the end of the season regardless of results.
We can only compete by bringing in young players and develop them ourselves as already complete players will either move above us or will cost a bomb.
Terrified of losing our young core me.
In fairness we've had a few occasions where he's done really well as sub starts the next game and is terrible.
He is the 1 I've highest hopes for but he's lacked any kind of consistency
Post by: Shogun on February 20, 2018, 02:50:53 AM
Mad game. He’s been quiet but not looked out of place.
Reeeeeally don’t love the thought of Keïta threading balls to Salah and Mane all next year 🤢🤢
Didn’t realise Real Madrid signed Keita and Mane
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 20, 2018, 04:31:14 AM
In fairness we've had a few occasions where he's done really well as sub starts the next game and is terrible.Alladyce doesn't care about building anything he wants results now regardless of the long term detriment to the club.
He is the 1 I've highest hopes for but he's lacked any kind of consistency
He is happy with 40 points. Him sticking around for me means our younger players leave to get chances and win things. Lookman is only the beginning.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on February 20, 2018, 04:09:37 PM
Alladyce doesn't care about building anything he wants results now regardless of the long term detriment to the club.Once again, this should be Walsh’s remit. A manager on a short term contract shouldn’t be making long term decisions at the club.
He is happy with 40 points. Him sticking around for me means our younger players leave to get chances and win things. Lookman is only the beginning.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on February 20, 2018, 04:13:56 PM
Post by: TheRam on February 20, 2018, 07:08:00 PM
As an aside; Lookman (and his agent) appears the sort of player who will be pushing for a move if he has a decent run of games and shows a bit of form.
What makes you think that?
Post by: van der Meyde on February 20, 2018, 07:35:11 PM
Once again, this should be Walsh’s remit. A manager on a short term contract shouldn’t be making long term decisions at the club.Aye. It wasn't Allardyce who signed Sigurdsson for £45m and shoved him into the team ahead in Lookman's position either, was it.
Post by: TheRam on February 25, 2018, 10:18:14 PM
Post by: Lxxx on February 25, 2018, 10:20:17 PM
Post by: Shogun on February 25, 2018, 10:24:14 PM
Post by: gizzblue on February 25, 2018, 10:27:08 PM
Hope he smashes it over there.Or glad he wasn't on the bench watching our shite against Watford.
Good look lad .👍.come back when the cancerous fuck leaves our club
Post by: Ross on February 25, 2018, 11:28:05 PM
Post by: sam of the south on February 25, 2018, 11:42:19 PM
But we were told he’d never get a game...
Ugh, the big-headed bulldog chewing a wasp/Wrigley's Extra
Post by: wilbur on February 25, 2018, 11:45:55 PM
But we were told he'd never get a game...
Post by: wilbur on February 25, 2018, 11:47:08 PM
Post by: van der Meyde on February 26, 2018, 12:18:30 AM
Think he'll continue to get plenty of minutes now, providing Leipzig stay in the Europa.
Post by: Lxxx on February 26, 2018, 12:22:35 AM
Post by: blueToffee on February 26, 2018, 01:53:31 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 26, 2018, 01:58:47 AM
Post by: TheRam on February 26, 2018, 02:06:24 AM
Got took off after an hour as they lost to bottom of the league
And fucked my acca in the process
Post by: irishtoffee on February 26, 2018, 02:18:29 AM
Got took off after an hour as they lost to bottom of the leaguePossibly not the full story. His shot hit the post and they scored the rebound. They were 1-0 up when he was taken off too. Don't know how he played overall though
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 26, 2018, 03:45:30 AM
Possibly not the full story. His shot hit the post and they scored the rebound. They were 1-0 up when he was taken off too. Don't know how he played overall thoughOnly info I had pal
Post by: Shogun on February 26, 2018, 03:47:49 AM
Post by: Mick 1995 on February 26, 2018, 04:23:36 PM
http://www.france24.com/en/20180225-englishman-lookman-shines-but-leipzig-crash-lowly-cologne
Quote
Ademola Lookman created a goal but RB Leipzig squandered the chance to go second in the Bundesliga on Sunday after crashing to a 2-1 defeat at home to bottom side Cologne.
Lookman, an England Under-21 winger on loan from Everton, shone during his 59 minutes, hitting the post in the move that led to the opening goal on five minutes at Leipzig’s Red Bull Arena.
When Portugal international Bruma crossed to the far post, Lookman, 20, nudged the ball onto the woodwork and French striker Jean-Kevin Augustin tapped home the rebound.
Who Scored only gave him a rating of 6.7 though.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1202122/Live/Germany-Bundesliga-2017-2018-RasenBallsport-Leipzig-FC-Cologne
(referred to both of the above by the Echo)
Post by: Hawkandro on February 26, 2018, 04:59:23 PM
Post by: Lxxx on February 26, 2018, 07:13:41 PM
He wouldn't get in ahead of Yannick Gump anyway.
He might get in ahead of Vlasic as, depending on what your source is, he may have cost more.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on February 27, 2018, 12:41:53 AM
Post by: brap2 on February 27, 2018, 02:12:57 AM
Sides in desperate need of a superstar attacker.
Promes
Lozano
Kluijvert
Zaha
Boufal (mad shout but think there’s a proper player there)
Mahrez
Then of course midfielders
Paredes
Doucoure
Lemina
Frenkie de jong
Post by: TheRam on February 27, 2018, 02:40:36 AM
I don’t hate Bolasie, I think he’s just a proper mid table player and always has been. Also he’s now past his prime with a recent serious knee injury - superb.
Sides in desperate need of a superstar attacker.
Promes
Lozano
Kluijvert
Zaha
Boufal (mad shout but think there’s a proper player there)
Mahrez
Then of course midfielders
Paredes
Doucoure
Lemina
Frenkie de jong
Mad the way we put 27mil down on bolasie when 5mil more would've got Zaha
Post by: kramer0 on February 27, 2018, 02:41:13 AM
I see a tall guy who gets on the ball a lot (okay, that's good) and makes a lot of accurate, sideways passes (meh). His goal tally is flattering too. Most of his shots are from bad locations so you can safely expect regression to the mean next season.
I'm not having him as someone who's worth anywhere near what Watford are going to demand this summer. Good sideways passers are everywhere. Only suckers pay big for them.
Post by: brap2 on February 27, 2018, 03:01:08 AM
What do people see in Doucore?
I see a tall guy who gets on the ball a lot (okay, that's good) and makes a lot of accurate, sideways passes (meh). His goal tally is flattering too. Most of his shots are from bad locations so you can safely expect regression to the mean next season.
I'm not having him as someone who's worth anywhere near what Watford are going to demand this summer. Good sideways passers are everywhere. Only suckers pay big for them.
I’d like to see his numbers as I only going off the old eye test but powerful cm’s who can change gears and tear up up the pitch are great in the prem and he can do that, plus he’s had a few assists from the middle this year hasn’t he? Didn’t he have a hand in every single Watford goal until Christmas or something ridiculous?
I like press resistant cm’s who can power through a midfield like 2014 yaya and score or assist.
I would only ‘spend big’ and by big I mean fucking huge, like spend half the budget big, on superstar attackers. Everything else can be found relatively cheap if you don’t mind developing a player and waiting.
The bagman has to arrive with goals good to go.
Post by: sam of the south on February 27, 2018, 03:06:15 AM
Mad the way we put 27mil down on bolasie when 5mil more would've got Zaha
Jesus.
I think he would’ve resisted our overtures, though, just like most really good players.
Utterly shit recruitment for years now, though, not since our Deulofeu (potentially) Lukaku, Stones, Barry period have we got real quality and potential in.
Post by: kramer0 on February 27, 2018, 03:07:21 AM
I’d like to see his numbers as I only going off the old eye test but powerful cm’s who can change gears and tear up up the pitch are great in the prem and he can do that, plus he’s had a few assists from the middle this year hasn’t he? Didn’t he have a hand in every single Watford goal until Christmas or something ridiculous?
I like press resistant cm’s who can power through a midfield like 2014 yaya and score or assist.
I would only ‘spend big’ and by big I mean fucking huge, like spend half the budget big, on superstar attackers. Everything else can be found relatively cheap if you don’t mind developing a player and waiting.
The bagman has to arrive with goals good to go.
You can see his shot map here. Make sure to select 2017-18 from the drop down menu.
https://understat.com/player/1726 (https://understat.com/player/1726)
I don't have a pass map but I'd be willing to bet that it has a lot of sideways business. He has 2 assists which is roughly in line with the above model's expectation (I have no clue about how the model works so take that with a grain of salt). His dribbling isn't impressive either (per WhoScored).
He strikes me as a total eye test player. Physically impressive, doesn't lose the ball much, but ultimately doesn't do enough (passing, dribbling, or shooting) to be worth the fuss.
Post by: brap2 on February 27, 2018, 03:10:52 AM
You can see his shot map here. Make sure to select 2017-18 from the drop down menu.
https://understat.com/player/1726 (https://understat.com/player/1726)
I don't have a pass map but I'd be willing to bet that it has a lot of sideways business. He has 2 assists which is roughly in line with the above model's expectation (I have no clue about how the model works so take that with a grain of salt). His dribbling isn't impressive either (per WhoScored).
He strikes me as a total eye test player. Physically impressive, doesn't lose the ball much, but ultimately doesn't do enough (passing, dribbling, or shooting) to be worth the fuss.
Fair enough. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been seduced by a big physical CM *cough* Ross Barkley *cough*
Post by: brap2 on February 27, 2018, 05:47:18 AM
Was quite low I think.
Reckon Renato Sanches’ stock has never been lower. Paulo Fonseca will be all over him in the summer for the blues.
Post by: Hawkandro on February 27, 2018, 02:23:37 PM
Only suckers pay big for them.
#WelcomeDoucore
Post by: Hawkandro on February 27, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
Post by: pedrotheblue on February 27, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Terrified we'll loose Lookman in the summer to a side who will actually give him game time and nurture him, and if that does happen SA will take a large portion of the blame.
Post by: GLewis on February 28, 2018, 02:08:23 AM
Bolasie has had plenty of time to get fit since his return, hope I'm wrong but he just looks finished as a decent footballer. He was erratic at the best of times prior to his injury and looks clueless every time he gets on the ball now.
Terrified we'll loose Lookman in the summer to a side who will actually give him game time and nurture him, and if that does happen SA will take a large portion of the blame.
I don’t think there’s another level for Bolasie to go to beyond what he’s shown in his career so far but these few games isn’t anywhere near enough time to have gotten over a year out of the game.
Unfortunately I don’t think it’s worth the effort for us to invest the minutes required for him to get match sharpness back.
Given his age we should be focusing on minutes for Vlasic etc.
Post by: brap2 on February 28, 2018, 02:20:36 AM
Man I wish we were comfortable and had a system That worked so we could be bedding some of these young players in.
Post by: GLewis on February 28, 2018, 04:34:06 AM
A harsh truth that but yeah. Move on in the summer ideally.
Man I wish we were comfortable and had a system That worked so we could be bedding some of these young players in.
Maybe being naive but I feel it should be relatively easy in that you know that Sigurdsson and Walcott are going to be good PL players across the season and that they both work hard etc.
Therefore you can afford the ups and downs of younger players a bit more than if you had flaky experienced options.
Overall I think we’ve got some good experienced PL players who you can rely on - the above two, Rooney, Gueye, Coleman etc.
But anyone else over 27 who either hasn’t been or ever will be a top player should be moved on to make space for the younger players we already have.
Then we shouldn’t be buying any PL players over 25 who don’t at least have the experience of being a top player. If they’re over that age then there’s a very slim chance of them being top 4/6 potential so what’s the point in investing time / money there.
If we want experience then it should be from cheaper markets where there’s at least a bit more chance that talent has slipped under the radar or the odd purchase like Walcott who needs a fresh start.
Post by: brap2 on February 28, 2018, 04:52:51 AM
Post by: Lxxx on February 28, 2018, 04:56:10 AM
Maybe being naive but I feel it should be relatively easy in that you know that Sigurdsson and Walcott are going to be good PL players across the season and that they both work hard etc.
Therefore you can afford the ups and downs of younger players a bit more than if you had flaky experienced options.
Overall I think we’ve got some good experienced PL players who you can rely on - the above two, Rooney, Gueye, Coleman etc.
But anyone else over 27 who either hasn’t been or ever will be a top player should be moved on to make space for the younger players we already have.
Then we shouldn’t be buying any PL players over 25 who don’t at least have the experience of being a top player. If they’re over that age then there’s a very slim chance of them being top 4/6 potential so what’s the point in investing time / money there.
If we want experience then it should be from cheaper markets where there’s at least a bit more chance that talent has slipped under the radar or the odd purchase like Walcott who needs a fresh start.
What you're advocating there is a measured approach with a bit of strategic thinking thrown in. Go and wash your mouth out.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 16, 2018, 12:29:48 AM
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 12:42:38 AM
Post by: Confucius on April 16, 2018, 12:46:39 AM
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 12:49:23 AM
Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.
I've felt people have been overly hard on him since he came back from injury but that performance in the derby was as poor as I've seen from a professional footballer.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on April 16, 2018, 12:51:37 AM
Post by: Cozzie on April 16, 2018, 12:58:27 AM
Different manager next season you would hope he would flourish.
Post by: Alanvideo on April 16, 2018, 12:59:25 AM
Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.................I agree he's getting unfair criticism but he wasn't that good before he was injured. Should be shipped out ,at a huge loss unfortunately.
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 01:20:31 AM
Got really high hopes for this fella.
Different manager next season you would hope he would flourish.
Shows the importance of getting a manager who'll develop young players.
Lookman, Holgate, Davies, Dowell and DCL could fill a lot of holes in our side next season.
Post by: bigl1cks on April 16, 2018, 01:31:22 AM
Shows the importance of getting a manager who'll develop young players.
Lookman, Holgate, Davies, Dowell and DCL could fill a lot of holes in our side next season.
Has the ring of a championship team to me.
Post by: blueToffee on April 16, 2018, 01:46:49 AM
Shows the importance of getting a manager who'll develop young players.
Lookman, Holgate, Davies, Dowell and DCL could fill a lot of holes in our side next season.
I'd rather we were in the position to send half of those on loan. Highly unlikely, but I don't think many of those are players we should be relying on IF our aim is being competitive further up the league.
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 01:54:12 AM
Has the ring of a championship team to me.
You'd probably have said the same about Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Neville in 92.
I'd rather we were in the position to send half of those on loan. Highly unlikely, but I don't think many of those are players we should be relying on IF our aim is being competitive further up the league.
Genuinely don't think any of those I listed need to go out on loan.
They've all played plenty of game now whether it's here or on loan and we simply don't have a squad full of talent that none of them will get a chance at Everton.
Post by: Paddockoldie on April 16, 2018, 02:06:11 AM
Post by: Ross on April 16, 2018, 02:12:03 AM
...erm or something like that.
Post by: blueToffee on April 16, 2018, 02:13:04 AM
You'd probably have said the same about Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Neville in 92.
Genuinely don't think any of those I listed need to go out on loan.
They've all played plenty of game now whether it's here or on loan and we simply don't have a squad full of talent that none of them will get a chance at Everton.
I would think with no Europe, and hopefully some key summer signings some of those might find it harder to get regular full games. At their age, they should be getting as much time as possible.
It may not be a popular opinion, but I think DCL should go out on loan. I think we need a stronger goal threat from a secondary striker than he's currently (reliably) capable of giving us.
Post by: Ross on April 16, 2018, 02:24:36 AM
I would think with no Europe, and hopefully some key summer signings some of those might find it harder to get regular full games. At their age, they should be getting as much time as possible.
It may not be a popular opinion, but I think DCL should go out on loan. I think we need a stronger goal threat from a secondary striker than he's currently (reliably) capable of giving us.
Think people have become obsessed with sending our young players out on loan myself.
There’s only one club who’s really interested in developing them to the full and that’s us and keeping them here managing them properly is our best way forward, we’ve sent to many young prospects out to sit on other teams bench’s the last 5-10 years.
Obviously they all won’t make it and the likes of Pennington or Walsh are just putting themselves in the shop window but somebody like DCL, Holgate or Davies who’ve all played significant roles for us at times need patience here and our backing they’re all talented and have time on their hands it’s not a sink or swim time for any of them.
Post by: Risky on April 16, 2018, 02:26:44 AM
Post by: Mayor Farnum on April 16, 2018, 02:31:54 AM
Shows the importance of getting a manager who'll develop young players.
Lookman, Holgate, Davies, Dowell and DCL could fill a lot of holes in our side next season.
Doubt any of them would be considered for a start at the likes of Spurs, Arsenal or even Leicester.
As for the Giggs, Scholes. Neville argument they did have some rather impressive back up from the likes of Schmichel, Pallister, Bruce, Hughes and Keane.
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 02:41:37 AM
Doubt any of them would be considered for a start at the likes of Spurs, Arsenal or even Leicester.
As for the Giggs, Scholes. Neville argument they did have some rather impressive back up from the likes of Schmichel, Pallister, Bruce, Hughes and Keane.
We've got Rooney, Walcott, Jagielka, Baines, Coleman... Not of the standard you've mentioned but more than enough experience to be able to integrate these younger players in the side.
Post by: Mayor Farnum on April 16, 2018, 02:43:32 AM
We've got Rooney, Walcott, Jagielka, Baines, Coleman... Not of the standard you've mentioned but more than enough experience to be able to integrate these younger players in the side.
You're right. Not remotely of the same standard. Even when they were at their peak.
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 02:56:26 AM
You're right. Not remotely of the same standard. Even when they were at their peak.
Well great then Mayor Farnum! So despite your in-depth assessment based on limited viewing in Everton sides managed by terrible managers, Let's bum them off on loan and buy more Schneiderlins and finish 7th at best for the next ten years because you don't rate them on limited viewing.
Afterall, there's no way anyone above the age of 16 can develop into a good player.
Post by: GLewis on April 16, 2018, 03:04:54 AM
You'd probably have said the same about Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Neville in 1992Yes but only Giggs was playing in 1992.
Beckham was still to go on loan to PNE etc ;)
If a new manager gives them more game time then fair enough but Dowell isn’t playing every week in the Championship so it’s a stretch to think he’d get suitable minutes here next season when Sigurdsson is pretty much the same player but with better off the ball attributes.
A lot will depend on whether we have a systems manager (ie someone who prioritises how theY want to play over what players they have available) or not, as they are more likely to pick a youngster as they may not have a suitable experienced player available.
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 03:08:12 AM
Yes but only Giggs was playing in 1992.
Beckham was still to go on loan to PNE etc ;)
If a new manager gives them more game time then fair enough but Dowell isn’t playing every week in the Championship so it’s a stretch to think he’d get suitable minutes here next season when Sigurdsson is pretty much the same player but with better off the ball attributes.
A lot will depend on whether we have a systems manager (ie someone who prioritises how theY want to play over what players they have available) or not, as they are more likely to pick a youngster as they may not have a suitable experienced player available.
I know he's lost his place recently but Dowell has played a lot this season and Forest haven't improved since Karanka changed the side.
I'm not saying all these are good enough but there's no other Premier League side with that quantity of young talent at their club on the periphery of the first team.
Edit: and a lack of progression under a manager like Sam Allardyce doesn't mean they should be judged on this season.
Post by: Mayor Farnum on April 16, 2018, 03:10:36 AM
Well great then Mayor Farnum! So despite your in-depth assessment based on limited viewing in Everton sides managed by terrible managers, Let's bum them off on loan and buy more Schneiderlins and finish 7th at best for the next ten years because you don't rate them on limited viewing.
Afterall, there's no way anyone above the age of 16 can develop into a good player.
I think far too much emphasis is placed upon producing our own talent. It has brought the team very little success over a very long period. That Man U example is forever being held up yet it was over twenty years ago and nothing similar has happened since.
We like to pat ourselves on the back and parade teams of under twelves at half time carrying trophies nearly as big as them but we have nothing at first team level to show for all our faith in our youth set up.
My biggest criticism of Everton is that we have never had a ruthless streak; we've had an obsession with being seen to do the right thing with zero reward. I would swap our attitude to youth with Chelsea's any day if it meant a better match day experience for me every week.
Let's be honest the only thing that separates our home grown players from the rest is that we get on their backs sooner.
Post by: Mayor Farnum on April 16, 2018, 03:12:58 AM
Give me young and hungry over experienced and over paid any day.
If that was true every successful team would be full of poorly paid young players. Just give us quality whatever their age.
Post by: pjk on April 16, 2018, 03:13:22 AM
Post by: GLewis on April 16, 2018, 03:18:07 AM
I know he's lost his place recently but Dowell has played a lot this season and Forest haven't improved since Karanka changed the side.
I'm not saying all these are good enough but there's no other Premier League side with that quantity of young talent at their club on the periphery of the first team.
Edit: and a lack of progression under a manager like Sam Allardyce doesn't mean they should be judged on this season.
I’m just wary of us over emphasising how good they are.
There’s a very good chance that the majority are good Championship players. If that’s the case then that would be more than enough to win the u23 league.
I’d like to see them with a manager committed to playing younger players as that would be a fair litmus test.
Post by: Shogun on April 16, 2018, 03:19:49 AM
I’m just wary of us over emphasising how good they are.
There’s a very good chance that the majority are good Championship players. If that’s the case then that would be more than enough to win the u23 league.
I’d like to see them with a manager committed to playing younger players as that would be a fair litmus test.
Pretty much what I'm trying to say but that's not going to happen unless we get a manager who'll invest in them.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on April 16, 2018, 06:43:48 AM
Post by: blargins on April 16, 2018, 06:47:23 AM
Post by: brap2 on April 16, 2018, 09:10:42 AM
Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.
Those lucky palace fans will be enjoying it very much no doubt
Post by: Evertonian in NC on April 16, 2018, 06:06:45 PM
Post by: howard1334 on April 17, 2018, 01:39:31 AM
Let's face it, they're both crappy finishers, but Lookman has time on his side. I hope he comes back and develops more.
Is Lookman a crappy finisher? Sample size is fairly small for Everton, both his goals for Leipzig were excellent finishes, and he had a decent strike rate for Charlton. Not saying his finishing has been amazing but lumping him in with Bolasie, who has failed to regularly score goals over the entirety of his career, seems unduly harsh. (I realize you make the point that Lookman has time on his side, but that does not really address my point.)
Post by: howard1334 on April 17, 2018, 01:42:09 AM
If Lookman farts and it smells ok? Leave it out. He's a good prospect, but thats it.
Not what Leipzig seems to think given he is playing regularly for them, and they are fifth in the Bundesliga.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 17, 2018, 01:47:18 AM
Not what Leipzig seems to think given he is playing regularly for them, and they are fifth in the Bundesliga.
How many minutes has he played for then since signing?
Edit: I've just found out.
He's never completed 90 mins (as far as I can see).
He's started 3, come off the bench in 4 (usually last 15 mins).
Out of possible 990 mins he's played 270 minutes.
I'm not sure 'regularly' quite fits. 'Occasionally' might be more accurate.
He's not really playing any more for them than he was for us before he left.
Post by: blue slug on April 17, 2018, 01:49:16 AM
Post by: Gash on April 17, 2018, 01:57:56 AM
How many minutes has he played for then since signing?
270. More than he got here but still not a lot in 2 1/2 months.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 17, 2018, 02:00:39 AM
270. More than he got here but still not a lot in 2 1/2 months.
From November to January 5th (last game he played for us) he actually played in more games and scored the same amount of goals for us.
Was out the team in the few weeks before he made the transfer like, so I suppose he could still have ended getting more at RB. Never know if he would have worked his way back in.
Post by: Gash on April 17, 2018, 02:26:46 AM
From November to January 5th (last game he played for us) he actually played in more games and scored the same amount of goals for us.
Was out the team in the few weeks before he made the transfer like, so I suppose he could still have ended getting more at RB. Never know if he would have worked his way back in.
Yeah, sorry, I meant league games. Obviously with his Europa appearances he's played more in total for us.
Post by: blargins on April 17, 2018, 03:35:46 AM
Is Lookman a crappy finisher? Sample size is fairly small for Everton, both his goals for Leipzig were excellent finishes, and he had a decent strike rate for Charlton. Not saying his finishing has been amazing but lumping him in with Bolasie, who has failed to regularly score goals over the entirety of his career, seems unduly harsh. (I realize you make the point that Lookman has time on his side, but that does not really address my point.)He’s had plenty of good chances when he’s played for us and sent most of them to the keepers legs.
I’d rather him in the team than Bolasie but he has a long way to go yet.
Post by: howard1334 on April 17, 2018, 08:29:46 AM
How many minutes has he played for then since signing?
Edit: I've just found out.
He's never completed 90 mins (as far as I can see).
He's started 3, come off the bench in 4 (usually last 15 mins).
Out of possible 990 mins he's played 270 minutes.
I'm not sure 'regularly' quite fits. 'Occasionally' might be more accurate.
He's not really playing any more for them than he was for us before he left.
Yeah, that definitely counts as playing regularly. It might not count as starting regularly, but that is not what I said. And, no, it is significantly more meaningful time than he was getting for us before he left.
Post by: stirlingblue on April 17, 2018, 03:02:39 PM
Minutes in the premier league do not automatically equal development
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 17, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Yeah, that definitely counts as playing regularly. It might not count as starting regularly, but that is not what I said. And, no, it is significantly more meaningful time than he was getting for us before he left.
It's not though. He's getting the odd game. Barely the equivalent of 1 in 4 (in terms of minutes)
If you look at the facts, in the 2 1/2 months before he left he played in the exact same amount of games and scored the exact same amount of goals with us as he has with RB. He actually played more minutes with us and did play a full 90 minutes, that's including the 3 weeks or so that he was out of the team before he left on loan.
So he actually was playing more football here over the same period.
I'm not saying that would have continued (although Allardyce said publicly he didn't want him to go).
But there's a bit of nonsense being thrown out when people suggest he was not being played regularly here, but he is at RB.
Post by: Lxxx on April 17, 2018, 03:32:01 PM
Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.
He may be being unfairly singled out but I'm not as sure as you that his performances are guaranteed to go up a level next season.
Post by: stirlingblue on April 17, 2018, 04:51:40 PM
He may be being unfairly singled out but I'm not as sure as you that his performances are guaranteed to go up a level next season.
He looks the most likely to make something happen at the minute
Post by: Lxxx on April 17, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
He looks the most likely to make something happen at the minute
That fact in itself is depressing.
Post by: howard1334 on April 17, 2018, 09:46:28 PM
It's not though. He's getting the odd game. Barely the equivalent of 1 in 4 (in terms of minutes)
If you look at the facts, in the 2 1/2 months before he left he played in the exact same amount of games and scored the exact same amount of goals with us as he has with RB. He actually played more minutes with us and did play a full 90 minutes, that's including the 3 weeks or so that he was out of the team before he left on loan.
So he actually was playing more football here over the same period.
I'm not saying that would have continued (although Allardyce said publicly he didn't want him to go).
But there's a bit of nonsense being thrown out when people suggest he was not being played regularly here, but he is at RB.
You are equating his Europa league playing time with his playing time for Liepzig in the Bundesliga. They are not equivalent, especially considering the last few Europa league games were throw-away matches for us. And when you look at playing time in league, it becomes clear that Lookman is receiving more meaningful time now. Out of 17 premier league matches for Everton this season, Lookman started 1, was a substitute in 6, and did not play in 10 -- i.e., he received playing time in only 41% of Premier League matches. Out of 10 Bundesliga matches for Liepzig this season, Lookman has started 3, was a substitute in 4, and did not play in 3 -- i.e., he has received playing time in 70% of Bundesliga matches and, in 7 fewer matches, two more starts than he did in the Prem.
You obviously have a narrative you want to push. So we should probably just end this conversation now.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 17, 2018, 09:58:42 PM
You are equating his Europa league playing time with his playing time for Liepzig in the Bundesliga. They are not equivalent, especially considering the last few Europa league games were throw-away matches for us. And when you look at playing time in league, it becomes clear that Lookman is receiving more meaningful time now. Out of 17 premier league matches for Everton this season, Lookman started 1, was a substitute in 6, and did not play in 10 -- i.e., he received playing time in only 41% of Premier League matches. Out of 10 Bundesliga matches for Liepzig this season, Lookman has started 3, was a substitute in 4, and did not play in 3 -- i.e., he has received playing time in 70% of Bundesliga matches and, in 7 fewer matches, two more starts than he did in the Prem.
You obviously have a narrative you want to push. So we should probably just end this conversation now.
He's been at RB for around 11 weeks and in the 11 weeks prior to leaving us he played in the same amount of games. 5 Prem games, 1 Europa league game and 1 FA cup game which was against Liverpool.
1 Europa league game was a dead rubber, that's about it.
I'd say playing in a derby is quite a meaningful game.
Only narrative is the one that we have somehow overseen some emerging talent and not offered him the same playing time as RB, when in fact it's pretty similar.
As I've said, no one knows if he would have broken in to the team more, hopefully RB start to play him regularly.
Post by: howard1334 on April 17, 2018, 10:12:36 PM
He's been at RB for around 11 weeks and in the 11 weeks prior to leaving us he played in the same amount of games. 5 Prem games, 1 Europa league game and 1 FA cup game which was against Liverpool.
1 Europa league game was a dead rubber, that's about it.
I'd say playing in a derby is quite a meaningful game.
Only narrative is the one that we have somehow overseen some emerging talent and not offered him the same playing time as RB, when in fact it's pretty similar.
As I've said, no one knows if he would have broken in to the team more, hopefully RB start to play him regularly.
...
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 17, 2018, 10:15:24 PM
...
Fully agree.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 17, 2018, 10:39:05 PM
The move wasn’t a clever 1 for us or lookman. We actually should have been stronger and told him to either pick a club he’d be an important player for or stay here so we could get the benefit of his infrequent games
Post by: Lxxx on April 17, 2018, 10:43:38 PM
He’s clearly not playing regularly. You don’t or at least shouldn’t go on loan to get similar minutes as he was getting here. There’s little benefit for the player and we’ve lost an option albeit 1 we used sparingly.
The move wasn’t a clever 1 for us or lookman. We actually should have been stronger and told him to either pick a club he’d be an important player for or stay here so we could get the benefit of his infrequent games
He'll be the better for the experience. However from next season he really needs to be racking up some serious playing time somewhere though, either with us or elsewhere.
Post by: D15TIN on April 17, 2018, 11:22:40 PM
Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.Be interesting to see him under a different more attack minded manager, same with lookman
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 17, 2018, 11:43:14 PM
He'll be the better for the experience. However from next season he really needs to be racking up some serious playing time somewhere though, either with us or elsewhere.
Good that he’s got a little footballing education in a different country. I’d much rather have seen him dominating the championship though. Think he’s easily the most talented of our young players but like you say he’s got to become a regular somewhere next season.
Post by: brap2 on April 18, 2018, 12:32:11 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 18, 2018, 01:14:09 AM
Think he’ll go personally.
I'd be amazed if we were open to selling him and on top of that where's he gonna go and play regularly. Not sure it's in his best interests to make that decision now. Might as well take another loan and see where he stands
This loan hasn't really furthered his chances as a starter at a team better than us.
Post by: howard1334 on April 18, 2018, 01:40:01 AM
Good that he’s got a little footballing education in a different country. I’d much rather have seen him dominating the championship though. Think he’s easily the most talented of our young players but like you say he’s got to become a regular somewhere next season.
I think this experience is way better for him than playing in the Championship.
Post by: Ramjam on April 18, 2018, 03:22:11 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 18, 2018, 04:15:55 AM
If he went to Spurs he’d have a cracking career under a forward thinking manager, this will come back to hunt us somewhere down the line as bigger clubs will no doubt be circling. He’s a good player getting lost in a club which is also lost.
He wouldn’t be playing at spurs either. He didn’t play much here. He hasnt played much in germany. I’m not sure why anyone thinks he’d play more at spurs. We are in a shit place but there’s not really anywhere for him to go with more potential and more game time.
Post by: Juanito on April 18, 2018, 04:21:15 AM
Post by: Lxxx on April 18, 2018, 04:24:49 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 18, 2018, 04:25:48 AM
He will come back next season under a fresh, forward thinking young manager and flourish on the left hand side.
Absolutely nothing to panic about. Even if he wanted a move we can easily tell him no and then assuming he’s in the managers plans he’d surely then be relatively happy cos he’s playing. We’d be in much more trouble had he gone to Germany and been brilliant. As it is he’s not proved he can play at a higher level than we are.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 18, 2018, 04:27:03 AM
I think he’s a got a little of Raheem Sterling about his play. Under the right manager he could be a proper baller. We just don’t seem to pick the right manager though.
He’s the 1 for me that looks to have something special about him. Think we’ve got a few that might have decent top flight careers but maybe only lookman who can go on and become a top player
Post by: bogie on April 18, 2018, 05:28:33 AM
Post by: Bluedylan on April 18, 2018, 05:29:14 AM
not got any better in 2 years now
Neither have you
Post by: bogie on April 18, 2018, 05:31:26 AM
Neither have you
I stopped playing football years ago so yeah you right there
if you think I am wrong about him show me
Post by: Bluedylan on April 18, 2018, 05:32:34 AM
I stopped playing football years ago so yeah you right there
if you think I am wrong about him show me
Can't be arsed. I'll let his football do the talking.
Post by: bogie on April 18, 2018, 05:33:50 AM
Can't be arsed. I'll let his football do the talking.
his football and how long will I have to wait to see this football
Post by: Bluedylan on April 18, 2018, 05:36:06 AM
his football and how long will I have to wait to see this football
Don't worry abar it. Can't even be arsed with this conversation. Sorry I said anything.
Post by: bogie on April 18, 2018, 05:38:19 AM
Don't worry abar it. Can't even be arsed with this conversation. Sorry I said anything.
its one of them funny stats he is a lot better when not playing for us (and I do not mean he is good out on loan )
Post by: Ramjam on April 18, 2018, 07:53:44 AM
He wouldn't be playing at spurs either. He didn't play much here. He hasnt played much in germany. I'm not sure why anyone thinks he'd play more at spurs. We are in a shit place but there's not really anywhere for him to go with more potential and more game time.He’d play more at Spurs because they have a world class coach who is forward thinking and always on the front foot, that’s what Lookman needs to develop his game, not Sam fucking Allerdyce who we all agree is a footballing dinosaur apart from the 15 or so people who want to keep him (Kopite votes I would suspect) I think the lad will tear up the Prem with the right people pulling his strings, whether it’s with us or not is another debate but I hope he is.
Post by: Lxxx on April 18, 2018, 12:34:13 PM
not got any better in 2 years now
He’s been with us just over a year.
Post by: brap2 on April 18, 2018, 12:52:52 PM
Don't worry abar it. Can't even be arsed with this conversation. Sorry I said anything.
I think he’s got a valid point but it wouldn’t be recognised because he’s a bit confrontational and antagonistic.
Personally @bogie (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3344) I think you’re right - nothing does a player’s reputation good like not playing for this team. I do think hes a talented lad and could save us a lot of money in the longer run, but scoring good individual goals is not a question mark he has over him...playing consistently and being tactically astute within a system are - judging by the managers comments recently it sounds like he’s working hard on it and it will be a great benefit to us, but he’s still only playing a third of the available minutes, he’s not exactly setting the world alight so people may potentially be talking him up to much.
Not that that sounds like something us evertonians would do tho does it.
Post by: AllyBlue14 on April 18, 2018, 01:35:11 PM
I think this experience is way better for him than playing in the Championship.
I think given the choice between playing for Derby or Leipzig, we'd all be heading to Germany. But from an Everton perspective - or even for a player hoping to forge a career in England - I fail to see how playing cameos for Leipzig is more relevant to his footballing development than playing regular minutes for a team like Derby, who are going quite well at the moment.
It's great that Lookman might have learned something about a different style, but when your meat and drink is the Premier League, surely you need to become battle-hardened for that style of play? Even then, he might have learned loads but it's hardly like he's the fulcrum of their team and getting to show it every week.
Seamus went to Blackpool, played regularly, helped get them promoted and hasn't looked back since. The Championship might not be as glamorous but it's a good place to learn something of the pressures of the PL away from a lot of the spotlight.
Post by: BlueMaquis on April 18, 2018, 01:44:44 PM
Post by: AllyBlue14 on April 18, 2018, 02:06:28 PM
Football is football. Playing in one league is pretty much like playing in another, as long as they are about the same level.
It's not though, is it? Look at Serie A and La Liga, they're completely different. There are plenty of players who have come from other leagues and struggled to adapt to the PL.
Post by: Cereal Killer on April 18, 2018, 02:28:09 PM
Football is football. Playing in one league is pretty much like playing in another, as long as they are about the same level. And let's face it, the Bundesliga is tougher than the Championship.
Sandro says hi
Post by: Toddacelli on April 18, 2018, 02:42:21 PM
I have a hard time understanding the argument that Lookman clearly has a role to play on a damned good, exciting Leipzig side - but not Everton.
Isn't it obvious? It's because he fits better in a damned good, exciting side than he does in a team that is currently playing the depressingly worst brand of football I can remember us playing for years.
Post by: Toddacelli on April 18, 2018, 02:52:57 PM
He’s clearly not playing regularly. You don’t or at least shouldn’t go on loan to get similar minutes as he was getting here. There’s little benefit for the player and we’ve lost an option albeit 1 we used sparingly.
The move wasn’t a clever 1 for us or lookman. We actually should have been stronger and told him to either pick a club he’d be an important player for or stay here so we could get the benefit of his infrequent games
I disagree.
I think this will be great for him. He's a young lad and to my mind he's made a really hard but mature choice:
He left his comfort zone
Hopefully left any friends/cronies/hangers on behind
Moved to another country with another language
Is at a top division team where he is not guaranteed a place but has to fight for a place through training and performances
The fact that he plays often and he's picking up the odd goal is more important than the amount of minutes.
I think he's doing fantastically well, learning a lot and this can only improve him as a player and as a person.
Well done Ademola!
Post by: AllyBlue14 on April 18, 2018, 03:02:00 PM
I disagree.
I think this will be great for him. He's a young lad and to my mind he's made a really hard but mature choice:
He left his comfort zone
Hopefully left any friends/cronies/hangers on behind
Moved to another country with another language
Is at a top division team where he is not guaranteed a place but has to fight for a place through training and performances
The fact that he plays often and he's picking up the odd goal is more important than the amount of minutes.
I think he's doing fantastically well, learning a lot and this can only improve him as a player and as a person.
Well done Ademola!
It'll be great for him on a personal level - you learn a lot about yourself living abroad. And if he's happy in himself, maybe that'll show on the pitch.
At his age, though, he needs guaranteed playing time. Otherwise, he could've stayed and fought for his place with us.
Post by: bogie on April 18, 2018, 03:03:12 PM
Isn't it obvious? It's because he fits better in a damned good, exciting side than he does in a team that is currently playing the depressingly worst brand of football I can remember us playing for years.
not that its good at the min but we are playing better football than we have been all year but its still crap
and it even goes back to last year all them games were we played well for 1 half of the match
we were all hoping it would be the good half that we kick on with and take that into full games turns out it was the shit half we took
Post by: Bluedylan on April 18, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
It'll be great for him on a personal level - you learn a lot about yourself living abroad. And if he's happy in himself, maybe that'll show on the pitch.
At his age, though, he needs guaranteed playing time. Otherwise, he could've stayed and fought for his place with us.
He's training with Champions League players every day, in a club that has state of the art facilities and is ahead of most of the rest of the world in youth development, and he's playing some games. Not to mention all of the personal development involved in living abroad, learning a language etc etc
I think that's more valuable that dragging his arse around Pride Park with a load of carthorses.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 18, 2018, 04:03:48 PM
He's training with Champions League players every day, in a club that has state of the art facilities and is ahead of most of the rest of the world in youth development, and he's playing some games. Not to mention all of the personal development involved in living abroad, learning a language etc etc
I think that's more valuable that dragging his arse around Pride Park with a load of carthorses.
Despite the whole premise of going out on loan being to get minutes.
Post by: Jimmywhack on April 18, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
Despite the whole premise of going out on loan being to get minutes.Is it not to improve?
However many minutes he's getting he's better off there than watching Bolasie stink the place out week in week out ahead if him
Post by: AllyBlue14 on April 18, 2018, 04:33:09 PM
He's training with Champions League players every day, in a club that has state of the art facilities and is ahead of most of the rest of the world in youth development, and he's playing some games. Not to mention all of the personal development involved in living abroad, learning a language etc etc
I think that's more valuable that dragging his arse around Pride Park with a load of carthorses.
Yeah, and as I've said previously, we'd all pick Leipzig over Derby. However, you can train with all the state of the art facilities you like, but there comes a point where you actually have to show it in a match.
Lookman has shown in patches that he could be a really good player for us, which by the sounds of it is exactly what he's done at RB Leipzig. He's been fast-tracked based largely on his potential, but in order to realise that potential he needs to play competitively week in week out, hone his game and go through the highs and lows most players experience.
Post by: Lxxx on April 18, 2018, 06:46:31 PM
I think the most important point is he is out of this toxic club at the minute and gaining experience of some description elsewhere. I think anywhere but in the stands here is an improvement and he can only come back better for it, under a new regime and a fresh start.
Post by: TheRam on April 18, 2018, 06:52:24 PM
Personally think he's a level above the Championship and wouldn't learn anything he doesn't already know by dropping back down.
It's a bit of an old school mentality to say someone should drop down a league for 'minutes', instead of testing themselves abroad.
Post by: Gash on April 18, 2018, 08:02:37 PM
He's already played in the championship with Charlton.
Personally think he's a level above the Championship and wouldn't learn anything he doesn't already know by dropping back down.
It's a bit of an old school mentality to say someone should drop down a league for 'minutes', instead of testing themselves abroad.
He'd learn plenty in the Championship. In career terms he's hardly played at all so any regular game time can give him important match experience, improve his techniques and gain match sharpness and fitness. There's no saying he'd have got game time at Derby (it would be a worry if he didn't) but he'd have gained far more if he was rather than 20 minutes here and there in Liepzig just because they've got nice training facilities and it's a foreign country.
Post by: AllyBlue14 on April 18, 2018, 08:16:40 PM
He's already played in the championship with Charlton.
Personally think he's a level above the Championship and wouldn't learn anything he doesn't already know by dropping back down.
It's a bit of an old school mentality to say someone should drop down a league for 'minutes', instead of testing themselves abroad.
A struggling Charlton team, which was then relegated to League 1. But it was through playing for them that he got his move to the big league.
He hasn't really proved anything (consistently) at PL level yet, though. Although I think it'd be more relevant for Everton if he continued to learn the game over here, I've nothing against him going abroad....as long as he plays. And not just 20 minutes off the bench. Derby isn't the most glamorous option, but they're having a good season and it's the closest he'd come to guaranteed football.
I'm not sure how it's 'old school' to think actually playing regular football might help a player's development.
Post by: BlueMaquis on April 18, 2018, 08:45:37 PM
It's not though, is it? Look at Serie A and La Liga, they're completely different. There are plenty of players who have come from other leagues and struggled to adapt to the PL.
There are also plenty of players who have come from the Championship and struggled to adapt to the PL. How can you attribute a foreign player's failure to his unsuitability to the PL?
Post by: Ross on April 18, 2018, 09:14:02 PM
He said played in 70% of the games he said been eligible for (could possibly have been injured for the other
30%), playing a total of 269 minutes in the process. Basically he’s played 30% of the competitive football he could possibly have. Seeing as he’d barley got off the plane before the first two games had come round I’d say that’s okay as he was never likely to walk straight into the team in the first nine days no matter where he ended up.
I mean who’s he better facing these last 5 games? Frankfurt (76), Cologne (59), Stuggart (45), Leverkusen (21), W.Brenmen (45) or Burton, Wolves, Bolton, Preston or Sunderland? And Derby have been in poor form during the time his loan would have covered so who’s to say he’d have got half the chance there when the teams getting beaten by the likes of Sunderland and Burton or struggling at Reading, QPR or Forest?
People are making out like he’s on some jolly up sat on his arse taking in the sights when he’s really gaining significant game time against some high class opposition, surround by quality teammates. He definitely better there than facing off against some bottom feeders in the championship.
Post by: Toddacelli on April 18, 2018, 10:30:45 PM
Despite the whole premise of going out on loan being to getminutesexperience.
Fixed.
Minutes on a pitch is no guarantee of development or we'd see referees joining football clubs after a few years.
Post by: Shogun on April 18, 2018, 11:21:13 PM
Post by: Lxxx on April 19, 2018, 12:20:54 AM
Onyekuru will be better anyway
For never coming anywhere near us since he signed.
Post by: howard1334 on April 19, 2018, 05:21:35 AM
I think given the choice between playing for Derby or Leipzig, we'd all be heading to Germany. But from an Everton perspective - or even for a player hoping to forge a career in England - I fail to see how playing cameos for Leipzig is more relevant to his footballing development than playing regular minutes for a team like Derby, who are going quite well at the moment.
It's great that Lookman might have learned something about a different style, but when your meat and drink is the Premier League, surely you need to become battle-hardened for that style of play? Even then, he might have learned loads but it's hardly like he's the fulcrum of their team and getting to show it every week.
Seamus went to Blackpool, played regularly, helped get them promoted and hasn't looked back since. The Championship might not be as glamorous but it's a good place to learn something of the pressures of the PL away from a lot of the spotlight.
I'd agree except he is not just getting cameos. That is a false narrative that some people are oddly pushing. Rather he has started 3 out of 10 league matches, come of the bench in another 4, and scored crucial goals that have earned his team a win and a draw. I suspect that more time will be coming his way, especially after last match, where he came on at half time, scored the equalizer, and according to the commentator in the below linked-to video, continued to be "a real menace" for the remainder of the match.
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/werder-bremen-rb-leipzig-line-ups-stats-timo-werner-naby-keita-delaney-kruse-477999.jsp
Post by: brap2 on April 19, 2018, 06:56:50 AM
Fingers crossed he’s ready to be involved next year.
Post by: Rodenplav64 on April 19, 2018, 05:48:48 PM
Post by: TheRam on April 19, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
So this was the right move for him then.
Post by: Brownie on April 19, 2018, 06:16:48 PM
Post by: themilkycoffees on April 19, 2018, 06:21:43 PM
Post by: Macca77 on April 19, 2018, 06:27:43 PM
Post by: Ramjam on April 19, 2018, 06:39:45 PM
Post by: Hawkandro on April 19, 2018, 06:43:38 PM
Post by: kramer0 on April 19, 2018, 06:49:43 PM
What would be even better for England is if mid-to-lower-table PL clubs stop hiring dinosaurs and start searching for coaches who put genuine effort into teaching young players (and actually play them too).
Post by: Audrey Horne on April 19, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
Post by: School of Science on April 19, 2018, 07:13:16 PM
Post by: Toffee1 on April 19, 2018, 08:03:50 PM
The sooner the dinosaur is gone the better.
Post by: Ross on April 19, 2018, 08:10:13 PM
Post by: sam of the south on April 19, 2018, 08:26:33 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 19, 2018, 08:36:34 PM
........“should have gone to Derby”
We should have made him go to derby
Post by: colin on April 19, 2018, 08:42:53 PM
Post by: AllyBlue14 on April 19, 2018, 09:23:15 PM
........“should have gone to Derby”
The irony is, this is more true than ever.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 19, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
The irony is, this is more true than ever.
Of course it is. Why would we let good sides have a look at players we want to keep
Post by: bogie on April 19, 2018, 10:34:12 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 19, 2018, 11:00:11 PM
get the money of them as fast as we can and let them wait the 4 years it will take for him to make it if he ever will
Isn’t that kind of what buying quality prospects is about.
Post by: gizzblue on April 19, 2018, 11:22:00 PM
get the money of them as fast as we can and let them wait the 4 years it will take for him to make it if he ever will
Obviously didn't mean to like this post as it's dripping in everything that's wrong with Sam and Everton .....sell the best prospects and buy some 30 year old way past his best. ...you will want Henry Oneyerku gone next ....ffs...."Youth development" means exactly this developing younger talent .😅😅
Post by: dunkster on April 19, 2018, 11:40:30 PM
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 12:28:43 AM
Isn’t that kind of what buying quality prospects is about.
yes it is but we are what 2 years in and he has no made it not even close ( q the but Sam is/was not giving him a go crap )
the lad has done nothing and all in here are going on about he is this that and the other for 4 mins of football 2 years ago
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 12:31:01 AM
Lookman I feel has the most quality of all our young lads. If channelled and coached properly over next couple of seasons he could be very good.
when did you see this
Post by: Toffee1 on April 20, 2018, 12:34:23 AM
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 12:36:28 AM
Obviously didn't mean to like this post as it's dripping in everything that's wrong with Sam and Everton .....sell the best prospects and buy some 30 year old way past his best. ...you will want Henry Oneyerku gone next ....ffs...."Youth development" means exactly this developing younger talent .😅😅
and in the bubble you live in that would be great BUT and its a fucking big BUT he has been here and done nothing fucking nothing hides in games will not track back one fucking bit will not tackle at all
go watch one of the games he played in at the start of the season (euro game) just watch him and you will see it plain as day
Post by: Lxxx on April 20, 2018, 12:46:36 AM
when did you see this
Just fuck off you troll.
Post by: Bluedylan on April 20, 2018, 12:48:02 AM
and in the bubble you live in that would be great BUT and its a fucking big BUT he has been here and done nothing fucking nothing hides in games will not track back one fucking bit will not tackle at all
go watch one of the games he played in at the start of the season (euro game) just watch him and you will see it plain as day
You don't half talk some blinkered, short-term shite, and Ralf Rangnick doesn't. He knows a talented young player when he sees one. I'm going with Ralf on this one.
We'd better not fucking sell him.
Post by: dunkster on April 20, 2018, 01:00:03 AM
Post by: dunkster on April 20, 2018, 01:01:21 AM
Post by: gizzblue on April 20, 2018, 01:03:45 AM
and in the bubble you live in that would be great BUT and its a fucking big BUT he has been here and done nothing fucking nothing hides in games will not track back one fucking bit will not tackle at all
go watch one of the games he played in at the start of the season (euro game) just watch him and you will see it plain as day
So a manager who's not changed shit in twenty years deserves more time ...
And a kid who's been with us one season deserves fucking off ....
Can't you smell what your shoveling? .
I go back to my earlier post on here .
Your a fucking Wum.
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 06:38:37 AM
So a manager who's not changed shit in twenty years deserves more time ...
And a kid who's been with us one season deserves fucking off ....
Can't you smell what your shoveling? .
I go back to my earlier post on here .
Your a fucking Wum.
so that's a no then you cant show me anything he has done in the last 2 years that would make me think he is worth keeping
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 06:43:21 AM
Most things like tracking back and team work come with coaching and experience. But for natural ability to use pace, skill and confidence to beat players that's either there or not. I am certain coming off the bench to replace Bolasie or Walcott lately, he would have done a good job.
and again show me were he used it this pace skill and confidence you talk about
he did fuck all at everton was give lots of game time for someone not having even an ok game when he came on or started
now if you replay has more than 1 but in it then your trying to hard to make him look good
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 06:47:18 AM
Anyone who saw Lookman's performances in the Under 20s World Cup Tournament last year (of which he was part of the winning team) can see that this lad has quality and skill that if nurtured properly, will be a massive asset for Everton.
did you see kid barca in that under 21 or 23 euro,s fuck me we need to get him back after watching him at that
Post by: Jamokachi on April 20, 2018, 06:54:31 AM
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 07:13:29 AM
short term shithouse, aka @bogie (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3344)
get of the bandwagon
Post by: Jamokachi on April 20, 2018, 07:19:08 AM
get of the bandwagon
I like the view from up here, treacle.
Post by: Audrey Horne on April 20, 2018, 01:31:42 PM
Post by: Paddockoldie on April 20, 2018, 01:40:29 PM
Post by: Brownie on April 20, 2018, 01:50:40 PM
Post by: Ramjam on April 20, 2018, 02:02:46 PM
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-refuse-rule-out-ademola-14552403When he says he'll make a decision and move on I hope he really means he'll make a decision then fuck off
Post by: howard1334 on April 20, 2018, 03:15:20 PM
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-refuse-rule-out-ademola-14552403
Fuck him. What a prick. He is just such an asshole. During every interview he gives, the disdain he has for everyone that's not him is so readily apparent.
The whole undercover sting thing revealed his character. At the beginning of his tenure at Everton, we were desperate and we gave him a pass when we never should have given his previously exposed character, myself included. He is a good reminder that character matters.
Also, these are the sort of stupid quotes that are gonna encourage Lookman and others like him to leave. I bet Alardyce is not even aware that Lookman just scored the equalizer for Liepzig in their last match.
Post by: Macca77 on April 20, 2018, 03:19:39 PM
Post by: Hawkandro on April 20, 2018, 04:14:02 PM
Post by: brap2 on April 20, 2018, 04:15:44 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on April 20, 2018, 04:23:17 PM
Post by: Macca77 on April 20, 2018, 04:26:34 PM
Post by: Hawkandro on April 20, 2018, 04:31:16 PM
I'm not his biggest fan but I'll be pretty pissed of if we sell him tbh
Especially considering Bolasie is just a headless chicken with a bit of pace about him.
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 04:34:03 PM
If we let this kid leave it's a disgrace and will signal to any young talent that we may buy you but you will just be a selling asset. Can't believe it's even being discussed.
or a warning that you cant just cost along in the under 23,s looking good you need to be making the grade and the step up
Post by: Macca77 on April 20, 2018, 04:38:46 PM
or a warning that you cant just cost along in the under 23,s looking good you need to be making the grade and the step up
He wasn't given the chance to step up, that's the point.
Post by: Bluedylan on April 20, 2018, 04:40:59 PM
Within 6 months, the entire youth set-up would be disbanded and all the young players released. Fucking idiot.
Post by: Lxxx on April 20, 2018, 04:48:13 PM
Especially considering Bolasie is just a headless chicken with a bit of pace about him.
Not sure about the pace anymore.
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
Can we appoint bogie as Head of Youth Development?
Within 6 months, the entire youth set-up would be disbanded and all the young players released. Fucking idiot.
a few more years and all top teams might get ride of them and I am not joking about that, the money going in to them and the gap between under 23 football and 1st team is getting bigger every year
but you close your eyes and hope for the best
Post by: Bluedylan on April 20, 2018, 05:00:11 PM
a few more years and all top teams might get ride of them and I am not joking about that, the money going in to them and the gap between under 23 football and 1st team is getting bigger every year
but you close your eyes and hope for the best
Yeah Spurs don't play any youth products in their first team do they? Or Liverpool. Or Man City. Or Arsenal. Or or or...
Come on mate. Get a grip. You're talking utter drivel. He's getting game time at a CL team who have said they want to sign him, a team who invest a lot in young players.
Post by: Hawkandro on April 20, 2018, 05:04:15 PM
https://twitter.com/ToffeeTVEFC/status/987268092119142400
Post by: blue1948 on April 20, 2018, 05:07:16 PM
a few more years and all top teams might get ride of them and I am not joking about that, the money going in to them and the gap between under 23 football and 1st team is getting bigger every yearDo you do any research before you post ? Chelsea buy all they can and sell them ,if I remember last count they made 300 mill from players who hadn't featured in the first team .
but you close your eyes and hope for the best
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 05:09:43 PM
Do you do any research before you post ? Chelsea buy all they can and sell them ,if I remember last count they made 300 mill from players who hadn't featured in the first team .
but is there manager getting crap for not playing them
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 05:16:11 PM
Yeah Spurs don't play any youth products in their first team do they? Or Liverpool. Or Man City. Or Arsenal. Or or or...
Come on mate. Get a grip. You're talking utter drivel. He's getting game time at a CL team who have said they want to sign him, a team who invest a lot in young players.
and the numbers are going down every year and will go down again and again and again
as for them clubs there are a lot that are not getting ago there as well
tell me is there any prem team looking to sign him ? why not ?
and as for getting game time well that's not really all that now is it for what he is getting
I will ask again what has he done for Everton in all the game time he was given ? nothing take the money and run
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 05:18:29 PM
Probably lose Vlasic too.
https://twitter.com/ToffeeTVEFC/status/987268092119142400
were do you get that out of what he said or is this just a sad way of getting more crap on the manager
Post by: Hawkandro on April 20, 2018, 05:21:43 PM
Post by: bogie on April 20, 2018, 05:22:57 PM
If it winds you up, Sam, then I am all in.
you see what I mean about being blind
Post by: Audrey Horne on April 20, 2018, 06:23:34 PM
I will ask again what has he done for Everton in all the game time he was given ? nothing take the money and run
You are awful.
Post by: Macca77 on April 20, 2018, 06:35:12 PM
You are awful.
Anyone else read this and think of Dick Emery?
Just me then
Post by: BlueForYou on April 20, 2018, 07:21:45 PM
Post by: Jamokachi on April 20, 2018, 10:06:45 PM
Can we appoint bogie as Head of Youth Development?
Head of cunt development.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on April 21, 2018, 12:44:31 AM
Head of cunt development.He’s doing a great job; we’ve nurtured plenty of cunts at this club.
Post by: bogie on April 21, 2018, 01:18:40 AM
Head of cunt development.
you would be top of the class then
Post by: howard1334 on April 21, 2018, 04:29:40 AM
Post by: bluestevie on April 21, 2018, 05:42:12 AM
Damn. This thread has really degraded.
Thats kinda how things go when trolls stick their oars in, people have been taken in instead of just ignoring the clueless shite it comes out with
Post by: TheRam on April 21, 2018, 07:50:11 PM
And upfront by the looks of things.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 21, 2018, 09:31:19 PM
Post by: bogie on April 21, 2018, 09:33:27 PM
Looks like they’ll be 7th after today’s fixtures. Are they even any better than us? Should have gone to derby
lol don't start them of again
Post by: TheRam on April 21, 2018, 09:37:41 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 21, 2018, 09:39:16 PM
lol don't start them of again
I like him. Think he’s a talent. Easily the best young player we have. This loan was ridiculous though. In terms of his playing time. In terms of letting a team that could tempt 1 of our players have a good look at him. He should have been made to go to somewhere he’d play more and definitely not want to stay or stay with us and get them limited minutes here
They aren’t even very good. So the talk of him training with world class players is daft too.
Post by: bogie on April 21, 2018, 09:46:17 PM
I like him. Think he’s a talent. Easily the best young player we have. This loan was ridiculous though. In terms of his playing time. In terms of letting a team that could tempt 1 of our players have a good look at him. He should have been made to go to somewhere he’d play more and definitely not want to stay or stay with us and get them limited minutes here
They aren’t even very good. So the talk of him training with world class players is daft too.
and the manager did not even want him to go on loan to start with a point that is over looked by a lot on here as it just does not suit there hate the manager for anything they can crap
this kid was gone the min he went on loan to them , asking for a loan move out of the blue then not going to a team the club found for him
I think he is miles of were others think he is and he really needed a good loan move to get going but has wasted that now
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 21, 2018, 10:20:37 PM
Post by: Ross on April 21, 2018, 11:24:30 PM
Post by: dunkster on April 22, 2018, 12:23:34 AM
and the manager did not even want him to go on loan to start with a point that is over looked by a lot on here as it just does not suit there hate the manager for anything they can crapSo why did he go out on loan then?? Presumably just to get away from fat twat. Presumably told he wouldn't get much playing time here cos why else did he feel the need to get minutes elsewhere.?
this kid was gone the min he went on loan to them , asking for a loan move out of the blue then not going to a team the club found for him
I think he is miles of were others think he is and he really needed a good loan move to get going but has wasted that now
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 22, 2018, 01:27:48 AM
This is all very reminiscent of the Lukaku keepy uppy thing.
Think lookman has a lovely touch.
Honestly I assumed it was an accepted fact that young players went out on loan to get more minutes. To train with better players (7th in the German league) and to use nicer facilities (do we not have nice facilities) are both new 1s on me.
Post by: Jimmywhack on April 22, 2018, 01:29:50 AM
Post by: TheRam on April 22, 2018, 01:31:12 AM
Think lookman has a lovely touch.
Honestly I assumed it was an accepted fact that young players went out on loan to get more minutes. To train with better players (7th in the German league) and to use nicer facilities (do we not have nice facilities) are both new 1s on me.
They're one of, if not the best team in Europe for using and developing young players. Especially players like lookman who are very technical and energetic.
I don't get why you're constantly ingnoring the positives of this move for him.
Post by: Ross on April 22, 2018, 01:34:02 AM
Think lookman has a lovely touch.
Honestly I assumed it was an accepted fact that young players went out on loan to get more minutes. To train with better players (7th in the German league) and to use nicer facilities (do we not have nice facilities) are both new 1s on me.
How many minutes has he got over the last half dozen games?
Post by: blue slug on April 22, 2018, 01:38:10 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on April 22, 2018, 01:40:48 AM
Think lookman has a lovely touch.He's got more minutes than if he was here for a side that would probably tear us apart. I fail to see how this has been a bad move for him. Its been a bad move for us cos if that bellend has his way he will sell him to a club who are keen on him. A club in a better position than us
Honestly I assumed it was an accepted fact that young players went out on loan to get more minutes. To train with better players (7th in the German league) and to use nicer facilities (do we not have nice facilities) are both new 1s on me.
Post by: Ross on April 22, 2018, 01:46:12 AM
Think he’s started 4 and come on as sub in 7 or 8 but don’t know the minutes dude
I’ll let @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) fill you in but bear in mind the last half dozen games would total 540 minutes and he’s a 20 year old who’s very new to the league and only a few weeks into a short loan.
Post by: Ridge on April 22, 2018, 02:01:22 AM
Half his Leipzig minutes have been in last 2 weeks, so likely to get more chances.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 22, 2018, 02:15:16 AM
They're one of, if not the best team in Europe for using and developing young players. Especially players like lookman who are very technical and energetic.
I don't get why you're constantly ingnoring the positives of this move for him.
Honestly think it’s probably a long term positive move but I’m not sure if it is in the short term. I’d sooner he was thinking about the play offs with derby. Let’s hope he isn’t massively keen with their facilities and young energetic team because it’s also extremely odd that we’d send a player to a club he could be tempted by when we asssume we actually want to keep him
Post by: blue slug on April 22, 2018, 02:33:25 AM
I’ll let @KoemansNumberTens (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) fill you in but bear in mind the last half dozen games would total 540 minutes and he’s a 20 year old who’s very new to the league and only a few weeks into a short loan.
I’m happy he’s gone on loan dude he’s definitely had way more minutes than he would of done under allardyce
Post by: Toffee1 on April 22, 2018, 02:46:37 AM
Post by: Ross on April 22, 2018, 02:56:28 AM
I’m happy he’s gone on loan dude he’s definitely had way more minutes than he would of done under allardyce
Yeah and no doubt more than he’d get at a failing Derby team as well.
And all at unquestionably an extremely high standard and competitiveness level of football.
Only an real dafty or someone not aware of the whole situation would question whether it’s a good move for Lookman or whether it’s going well for him.
Post by: bogie on April 22, 2018, 06:41:14 AM
So why did he go out on loan then?? Presumably just to get away from fat twat. Presumably told he wouldn't get much playing time here cos why else did he feel the need to get minutes elsewhere.?
smells of tapping up a no point were they talking to the club about him then he comes in and ask for a loan will not go were the club got him a loan and as if by magic red bull come in for him
and it was him that ask for the loan so all this why as Sam loaned him out is fucking bullshit
be gone with him and move on
Post by: howard1334 on April 22, 2018, 02:14:35 PM
Honestly think it’s probably a long term positive move but I’m not sure if it is in the short term. I’d sooner he was thinking about the play offs with derby. Let’s hope he isn’t massively keen with their facilities and young energetic team because it’s also extremely odd that we’d send a player to a club he could be tempted by when we asssume we actually want to keep him
Considering you are normally a reasonable poster, the fact that your staying so vehemently with this position despite the fact he got a goal and rave reviews two matches ago and started, went the full 90, got an assist, and got solid reviews yesterday in a match that might have determined whether Leipzing qualifies for the Champions League seems kinda crazy to me. Personally would have rather we just kept and played him ourselves, and really concerned about Sam's really stupid comments the other day. But at this point, it is pretty clear that he will be a better player from this experience than if he had gone to Derby.
Also, your self-serving attacks on Liepzig earlier were laughable. Qualified for the Champions League last year. Made it to the quarters of the Europa and only four points off of Champions League qualification again this year. Come on, man. Just acknowledge you may have been wrong, which you may have been trying to do with this post (IDK; hard to tell), and let's all move on.
Here is his assist from today in case you have not seen it (starts around 1 min 45 secs).
feature=onebox
Post by: Lxxx on April 22, 2018, 03:06:25 PM
Damn. This thread has really degraded.
The forum itself has slumped and not really down to the contributors.
How one man can suck the life out of a club and leave it’s supporters completely bereft of things to talk about other than how much they hate him.
Post by: bogie on April 22, 2018, 03:37:41 PM
and that would be the end of lookman
Post by: brap2 on April 22, 2018, 03:54:01 PM
Marcel Brands' appointment as Everton director of football is set to be confirmed with PSV's Mexico winger Hirving Lozano emerging as a possible first signing.
and that would be the end of lookman
My buddy, we do not have a farts chance in a tornado of signing hirving lozano.
Post by: bogie on April 22, 2018, 08:05:20 PM
My buddy, we do not have a farts chance in a tornado of signing hirving lozano.
lol yeah
but its in the paper so it must be true
Post by: howard1334 on April 23, 2018, 12:59:35 AM
The forum itself has slumped and not really down to the contributors.
How one man can suck the life out of a club and leave it’s supporters completely bereft of things to talk about other than how much they hate him.
Yeah. It really sucks when there is little to get excited about.
Post by: Toddacelli on April 23, 2018, 05:31:53 PM
Think lookman has a lovely touch.
Honestly I assumed it was an accepted fact that young players went out on loan to get more minutes. To train with better players (7th in the German league) and to use nicer facilities (do we not have nice facilities) are both new 1s on me.
They're one of, if not the best team in Europe for using and developing young players. Especially players like lookman who are very technical and energetic.
I don't get why you're constantly ingnoring the positives of this move for him.
This.
Plus the fact that it was never our facilities that were unfavourably compared with Leipzig - it was Derby County.
Post by: TheRam on April 29, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 29, 2018, 10:33:21 PM
Post by: Thornton_19 on April 29, 2018, 11:24:46 PM
Beaten 3 nil. We'd beat theseWe Wouldn't.
Post by: GLewis on April 30, 2018, 12:30:49 AM
We Wouldn't.
Not currently but i think there’s been an over estimation about how good they are.
If we had a good manager I wouldn’t just be accepting a defeat if we played them.
Post by: Ross on April 30, 2018, 12:35:43 AM
Not currently but i think there’s been an over estimation about how good they are.
If we had a good manager I wouldn’t just be accepting a defeat if we played them.
They’re a level or 5 above Derby though regardless of how they’d stack up against us.
Post by: bogie on April 30, 2018, 12:35:46 AM
Post by: GLewis on April 30, 2018, 12:40:15 AM
They’re a level or 5 above Derby though regardless of how they’d stack up against us.
Yes.
But his issues aren’t skill.
It’s decision making etc. which are improved under pressure and experience of it.
And I’ll still stand by he’s done this loan move for himself.
Which doesn’t sound bad but everyone hates senior players who try to leave etc.
Post by: bogie on April 30, 2018, 12:44:58 AM
Yes.
But his issues aren’t skill.
It’s decision making etc. which are improved under pressure and experience of it.
And I’ll still stand by he’s done this loan move for himself.
Which doesn’t sound bad but everyone hates senior players who try to leave etc.
senior player now your just trying to wind us up
Post by: Juanito on April 30, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
looks like Lookman might have to come back cap in hand
What you on about?
Post by: bogie on April 30, 2018, 12:47:34 AM
What you on about?
I will give you time to work it out
Post by: Ross on April 30, 2018, 12:51:01 AM
Yes.
But his issues aren’t skill.
It’s decision making etc. which are improved under pressure and experience of it.
And I’ll still stand by he’s done this loan move for himself.
Which doesn’t sound bad but everyone hates senior players who try to leave etc.
The more intense the league the higher the pressure and he’s clearly getting the experience and at a much higher level than the championship.
Of course he’s done it for himself, he’s looking to make himself the best he possibly can be whether that’s with Everton, Derby of Leipzig.
Post by: Juanito on April 30, 2018, 01:11:20 AM
Bit worrying. Quotes Sam trying to sell him, probably because the thin skinned narcissist didn’t like it that he went against his wishes and wanted to play with Werner and Keita instead of Jerome and Keogh.
Post by: Juanito on April 30, 2018, 01:13:57 AM
I will give you time to work it out
You need time to work out that Lookman has played for England at every level so far and will continue to, is rated by clubs around Europe and is a player we need here, not come back ‘cap in hand’ just
because the side he played for happened to get beat today.
Post by: Paddockoldie on April 30, 2018, 01:23:26 AM
Post by: bogie on April 30, 2018, 04:25:05 AM
You need time to work out that Lookman has played for England at every level so far and will continue to, is rated by clubs around Europe and is a player we need here, not come back ‘cap in hand’ just
because the side he played for happened to get beat today.
try reading back over the thread
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on April 30, 2018, 06:29:42 AM
Post by: GLewis on April 30, 2018, 05:49:31 PM
The more intense the league the higher the pressure and he’s clearly getting the experience and at a much higher level than the championship.
Of course he’s done it for himself, he’s looking to make himself the best he possibly can be whether that’s with Everton, Derby of Leipzig.
The intensity issue is the key.
Being thrown on for cameo sub appearances, with an “express yourself remit” etc isn’t the same pressure as having responsibility for starting games where mistakes even early on in a game may cost you.
He’s been starting more games recently so that’s good.
And I’ve no problem with players looking out for themselves but lots of people do. He’s just got an easy ride because most people don’t like Allardyce otherwise I think he would have been panned for going against club wishes.
Post by: Hawkandro on April 30, 2018, 06:13:04 PM
Seems utterly daft, basing it purely on cost rather than talent.
Post by: van der Meyde on April 30, 2018, 06:31:44 PM
The intensity issue is the key.I've said similar before, but even if he has gone against the club's wishes, it doesn't mean that the club's decision was right for his development.
Being thrown on for cameo sub appearances, with an “express yourself remit” etc isn’t the same pressure as having responsibility for starting games where mistakes even early on in a game may cost you.
He’s been starting more games recently so that’s good.
And I’ve no problem with players looking out for themselves but lots of people do. He’s just got an easy ride because most people don’t like Allardyce otherwise I think he would have been panned for going against club wishes.
I think there's very much a progressive argument to make that sending young players abroad - and exposing them to other cultures/styles of play - is the right thing to do here. For attacking players at least, anyway.
There probably was a 'feathering his own nest' side to it as you suggest, but on our side of it, his decision's probably vindicated in that he's actually been starting some games and coming off the bench.
When you've got people like Royle/Dobson, Walsh and Allardyce making decisions on loans, you're probably only ever going to get them going to British clubs because that's what they're used to. This might make sense if you don't think they're ever going to make it at Premier League level, give them experience of the rough and tumble of the lower leagues. If they're likely to be top level players though, I'm not sure it does.
Post by: Trowel on April 30, 2018, 06:32:43 PM
Got to keep this kid. His potential is huge but he needs the right coach and a manager who believes in him....Are you talking about bogie?
Post by: sam of the south on April 30, 2018, 06:35:56 PM
The intensity issue is the key.
Being thrown on for cameo sub appearances, with an “express yourself remit” etc isn’t the same pressure as having responsibility for starting games where mistakes even early on in a game may cost you.
He’s been starting more games recently so that’s good.
And I’ve no problem with players looking out for themselves but lots of people do. He’s just got an easy ride because most people don’t like Allardyce otherwise I think he would have been panned for going against club wishes.
Yes, this is all true.
However, you would imagine that one of the reasons he forced a move for himself was because he didn’t want to ‘work’ with Allardyce rather than any contempt he has for Everton.
Post by: GLewis on April 30, 2018, 07:05:19 PM
I've said similar before, but even if he has gone against the club's wishes, it doesn't mean that the club's decision was right for his development.
I think there's very much a progressive argument to make that sending young players abroad - and exposing them to other cultures/styles of play - is the right thing to do here. For attacking players at least, anyway.
There probably was a 'feathering his own nest' side to it as you suggest, but on our side of it, his decision's probably vindicated in that he's actually been starting some games and coming off the bench.
When you've got people like Royle/Dobson, Walsh and Allardyce making decisions on loans, you're probably only ever going to get them going to British clubs because that's what they're used to. This might make sense if you don't think they're ever going to make it at Premier League level, give them experience of the rough and tumble of the lower leagues. If they're likely to be top level players though, I'm not sure it does.
Yes and I think that approach is enhanced if you’re going to be appointing managers from outside of the English game more often.
Post by: Ross on April 30, 2018, 07:05:39 PM
The intensity issue is the key.
Being thrown on for cameo sub appearances, with an “express yourself remit” etc isn’t the same pressure as having responsibility for starting games where mistakes even early on in a game may cost you.
He’s been starting more games recently so that’s good.
And I’ve no problem with players looking out for themselves but lots of people do. He’s just got an easy ride because most people don’t like Allardyce otherwise I think he would have been panned for going against club wishes.
Think he’s been eligible for 11 games since his move, he’s started 5 games and featured significantly in 4 others.
Considering the first two games came within 8 days of him landing in Germany I’d say that’s a decent amount of football for a 20 year old lad out on loan no matter what club he’s playing for.
As for the Allardyce point it’s unlikely he’d have sort out a loan move if he wasn’t the manager given the mismatch in skill sets he requests and the player has.
Post by: GLewis on April 30, 2018, 07:09:21 PM
Think he’s been eligible for 11 games since his move, he’s started 5 games and featured significantly in 4 others.
Considering the first two games came within 8 days of him landing in Germany I’d say that’s a decent amount of football for a 20 year old lad out on loan no matter what club he’s playing for.
As for the Allardyce point it’s unlikely he’d have sort out a loan move if he wasn’t the manager given the mismatch in skill sets he requests and the player has.
Yeah I said at the time that the move should be judged on starts etc come the end of the period.
I’m far from being against players getting different experiences.
It’s just that when I’ve watched Lookman, he looks like he needs a) decision making and b) the stamina you gain from playing 90 mins every week.
That was a gamble going to Leipzig.
Post by: howard1334 on April 30, 2018, 07:15:03 PM
The intensity issue is the key.
Being thrown on for cameo sub appearances, with an “express yourself remit” etc isn’t the same pressure as having responsibility for starting games where mistakes even early on in a game may cost you.
He’s been starting more games recently so that’s good.
And I’ve no problem with players looking out for themselves but lots of people do. He’s just got an easy ride because most people don’t like Allardyce otherwise I think he would have been panned for going against club wishes.
He has started several games for a side chasing 4th and Champions League qualification, and his two goals have come in substitute appearances. I think the intensity is surely there -- about as real as it gets.
Post by: GLewis on April 30, 2018, 07:29:39 PM
He has started several games for a side chasing 4th and Champions League qualification, and his two goals have come in substitute appearances. I think the intensity is surely there -- about as real as it gets.
I don’t think sub appearances are, inherently.
As said, he’s started more games recently though so that’s better.
It’s just not the absolute no brainer option, from the point of view of him coming back here and being good for us, that it is often portrayed as.
Post by: howard1334 on April 30, 2018, 08:00:54 PM
I don’t think sub appearances are, inherently.
As said, he’s started more games recently though so that’s better.
It’s just not the absolute no brainer option, from the point of view of him coming back here and being good for us, that it is often portrayed as.
Sub appearances are probably not inherently intense, true, but here we have evidence that Lookman's appearances have had that intensity. He has been coming on early (often before the 60 min mark) and then making a difference in important games.
Post by: brap2 on April 30, 2018, 09:18:46 PM
Sub appearances are probably not inherently intense, true, but here we have evidence that Lookman's appearances have had that intensity. He has been coming on early (often before the 60 min mark) and then making a difference in important games.
Might be talking out of my arse here but yous are maybe taking about different sorts of intensity.
The type of intensity in which you need to change the game, usually through individual ability, is one thing and usually associated with the sub appearances. I’d say having to change the game through stepingn up and making something happen is an experience he’s had on loan deffo and to me it looks like he’s done it well.
But the type of intensity which is more sort of an intense and close following of a tactical plan e.g shapes and triggers, when to close people down when to look for the break, which man to mark and when to mark him closer than other times (probably a bunch of other coachy type stuff as well), that type of intensity is different but imo more like what you’d be sent on at minute one with.
Or if you are a CM/CB/defensive forward player the sort of remit is have to follow if you get thrown in late (to first keep a game rather than to try to change a game).
Post by: SANA_DR0 on May 01, 2018, 12:17:00 AM
But I guess RB Leipzig play alot faster than our pedestrian speed...really wish he comes back.
Post by: brap2 on May 01, 2018, 12:25:38 AM
I actually feel sick that Bolasie has played so much this year
Maybe an overreaction
Post by: SANA_DR0 on May 01, 2018, 12:29:26 AM
Maybe an overreaction
maybe.. maybe sick wasnt the right word.. i just know he will give it away or not produce anything. i just feel dejected?? resigned? i know nothing will come of him having the ball.. then i think of Lookman.. thats what makes me feel sick..(overreaction again :p )
Post by: Polledreng on May 05, 2018, 09:57:58 PM
Post by: Shogun on May 05, 2018, 10:03:50 PM
Post by: TheRam on May 05, 2018, 10:16:14 PM
Post by: Lxxx on May 05, 2018, 10:24:54 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on May 05, 2018, 10:41:12 PM
Post by: blue1948 on May 05, 2018, 10:49:53 PM
Maybe an overreactionMay be I overreact as well because a get a deep gut feeling when I see he is playing ,I love the guy as a person but he has had his day .
Post by: Ross on May 05, 2018, 11:12:47 PM
Post by: Shogun on May 05, 2018, 11:25:08 PM
Think he’s scored more for RB than Allardyces big success story Walcott.
To be fair Walcott hasn't played for RB.
Post by: Jimmywhack on May 05, 2018, 11:50:41 PM
Think he's scored more for RB than Allardyces big success story Walcott.Be nice to have seen lookman on the right, Walcott on the left tbh
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 06, 2018, 12:11:39 AM
He'll be gone if Sam stays.The DoF won’t let that happen
Post by: howard1334 on May 06, 2018, 12:21:50 AM
Post by: gizzblue on May 06, 2018, 07:19:11 AM
Can't we sell them Bolasie and keep lookman here .
Post by: Shogun on May 12, 2018, 08:45:39 PM
Cut inside and done the keeper on his near post.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on May 12, 2018, 09:01:14 PM
that should be in the 'what makes you cry thread'.
Post by: Jimmywhack on May 12, 2018, 09:02:02 PM
Post by: Ross on May 12, 2018, 09:07:58 PM
Post by: brap2 on May 12, 2018, 09:12:14 PM
Post by: gizzblue on May 12, 2018, 09:15:07 PM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on May 12, 2018, 09:20:34 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 12, 2018, 09:20:50 PM
Post by: Lxxx on May 12, 2018, 09:47:25 PM
all these lookman posts doing well make me sad..
that should be in the 'what makes you cry thread'.
Why? It couldn’t illustrate any better how much of a good move this has been for him. We’ll be the beneficiary of it when he returns.
Post by: Lxxx on May 12, 2018, 09:50:59 PM
We could've done with this kid starting weekly for us ....proved his worth over there given a chance .
Nah. He was well out of the toxic negativity that has surrounded the club since Xmas.
This is exactly what loan moves are for, so they come back a better player.
Post by: velimski on May 12, 2018, 09:57:33 PM
Why? It couldn’t illustrate any better how much of a good move this has been for him. We’ll be the beneficiary of it when he returns.
You reckon he'll be keen to stay?
Post by: gizzblue on May 12, 2018, 09:58:57 PM
Nah. He was well out of the toxic negativity that has surrounded the club since Xmas.Well missed though when up until Walcott our wingers have been as shit as....although Bolasie still is shite ...was brilliant in memory while injured .
This is exactly what loan moves are for, so they come back a better player.
Hope to fuck we can keep this kid and fuck Sam off cos they won't both be here next season that's for sure .
Post by: Lxxx on May 12, 2018, 09:59:43 PM
You reckon he'll be keen to stay?
He’s under contract. It's not his decision.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 12, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
Post by: Lxxx on May 12, 2018, 10:04:51 PM
Well missed though when up until Walcott our wingers have been as shit as....although Bolasie still is shite ...was brilliant in memory while injured .
Hope to fuck we can keep this kid and fuck Sam off cos they won't both be here next season that's for sure .
He’s a positive by product of a lost season, by not being here.
His development, in terms of his use to us now next season and his increased value, far outweighs paying Sam off, which is a sweet irony.
Post by: Bluedylan on May 12, 2018, 10:30:47 PM
What sort of money do red bull normally spend on players? Is it likely they’ll come with a big bid
They're about to pocket 60 mil for Keita, so money won't be an issue.
Still think we'll keep him, and any new manager (fingers crossed!) would want him staying.
Post by: Ross on May 12, 2018, 10:34:17 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 12, 2018, 10:36:49 PM
They're about to pocket 60 mil for Keita, so money won't be an issue.
Still think we'll keep him, and any new manager (fingers crossed!) would want him staying.
I think we will. In this market I think we’d want a huge chunk of that 60m even if we were open to selling him. I get the impression they like to find young talent cheap and sell high. I can’t imagine them coming with a 40m plus offer for lookman. The good thing is his form has possibly priced him out of a move at the moment anyway
Post by: sam of the south on May 12, 2018, 10:49:26 PM
Post by: Ridge on May 13, 2018, 01:32:29 AM
https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/995361908864663552
Post by: toffee_scot on May 13, 2018, 02:55:40 AM
By next season I'm hoping that he will have a more important part to play for Everton in a regime that actually promotes and encourages young attacking talent.
If he was to leave permanently because the current prehistoric football management setup at the club won't recognise this talent then that will be unforgivable.
Post by: brap2 on May 13, 2018, 03:58:32 AM
They're about to pocket 60 mil for Keita, so money won't be an issue.
Still think we'll keep him, and any new manager (fingers crossed!) would want him staying.
Would say they generally identify talents earlier than this, BUT, they have loaned him so clearly like him and he’s then preformed.
I’m worried to be honest, keep over almost anyone else in the squad is my thoughts at the moment.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on May 13, 2018, 04:08:14 AM
1) Get Allardyce out
2) Get Walsh out
3) Get Lookman back in and settled
Post by: Bluedylan on May 13, 2018, 04:14:15 AM
Would say they generally identify talents earlier than this, BUT, they have loaned him so clearly like him and he’s then preformed.
I’m worried to be honest, keep over almost anyone else in the squad is my thoughts at the moment.
Yeah, I hear you, but ultimately we can just say 'no' if it comes down to it, and Lookman's not high profile enough to force our hand really.
A couple of people on twitter saying they spoke to him after today's game and that he's looking forward to getting back to Goodison (sans Allardyce presumably), and was apparently buzzing to see someone in an Everton shirt.
Post by: velimski on May 13, 2018, 05:02:30 AM
He’s under contract. It's not his decision.
I asked whether he'd be keen to stay not whose decision it was.
Besides, a happy player under contract is much easier to keep hold of than an unhappy one.
Post by: Macca77 on May 13, 2018, 05:02:48 AM
Hope he stays here though, he's a proper talent
Post by: brap2 on May 13, 2018, 05:08:09 AM
Yeah, I hear you, but ultimately we can just say 'no' if it comes down to it, and Lookman's not high profile enough to force our hand really.
A couple of people on twitter saying they spoke to him after today's game and that he's looking forward to getting back to Goodison (sans Allardyce presumably), and was apparently buzzing to see someone in an Everton shirt.
My hero
Post by: Bluedylan on May 13, 2018, 05:27:55 AM
My hero
Haha.
A lot of it is me trying to convince myself, as much as anything.
Post by: TheRam on May 13, 2018, 05:49:05 AM
He's played for a club a level above us and smashed it.
They'll be wanting to make the move permanent and I suspect some elite level teams may become interested.
We stole a march on a lot of teams because we were supposed to offer a better pathway for him to play.
Now we haven't offered him that, what's here for him?
Only hope is a new manager gets hold of him and makes him an integral player for next season.
Build the team around him, Walcott and Sigurdsson.
Post by: Lxxx on May 13, 2018, 05:52:50 AM
We have absolutely nothing here for him.
He's played for a club a level above us and smashed it.
They'll be wanting to make the move permanent and I suspect some elite level teams may become interested.
We stole a march on a lot of teams because we were supposed to offer a better pathway for him to play.
Now we haven't offered him that, what's here for him?
Only hope is a new manager gets hold of him and makes him an integral player for next season.
Build the team around him, Walcott and Sigurdsson.
I think we will and I think with a new manager and DoF we’ll look to go down that route. For no other reason than we’ve made a pigs ear of the last few years spending lots of money and watching the squad look tired and old.
Time for a new approach.
Post by: GLewis on May 13, 2018, 01:01:51 PM
We obviously wanted him to go to Derby but we didn’t stop him from going to Leipzig.
Post by: Mick 1995 on May 14, 2018, 02:45:14 PM
We have absolutely nothing here for him.
He's played for a club a level above us and smashed it.
They'll be wanting to make the move permanent and I suspect some elite level teams may become interested.
We stole a march on a lot of teams because we were supposed to offer a better pathway for him to play.
Now we haven't offered him that, what's here for him?
Only hope is a new manager gets hold of him and makes him an integral player for next season.
Build the team around him, Walcott and Sigurdsson.
The possibility of that attacking 3 behind a finisher actually gets me a bit excited.
Get a player in who can pass his way out of trouble to sit next to (and be protected by) Gana and all of a sudden it crashes me right back into despondency about how shit this season has been.
Post by: di_guyo on May 14, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
Post by: Mick 1995 on May 14, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
Oh how we love a youngster. Let's not overreact here. Hearing comments around building a team around him... He's had a few good games in a lesser league and some people are talking about him like a world beater. Don't forget that aside from a few decent cameos he was largely shite in blue. Now he might have potential, and I think there's a player in there for sure... But to expect him to come straight into the team and be a big player is optimistic to say the least.
Fair point. But i think the general feeling (mine, certainly) is more that his 'potential' looks to be greater than anybody we could reasonably attract.
Added to that the 2 men in there with him are seasoned professionals at their pomp and both easily clever enough to make up for Lookmans youthful exuberance causing mistakes?
The potential gains far than make up for the short-term inexperience based mistakes he will put in a lot of the time.
Post by: themilkycoffees on May 14, 2018, 03:28:04 PM
Oh how we love a youngster. Let's not overreact here. Hearing comments around building a team around him... He's had a few good games in a lesser league and some people are talking about him like a world beater. Don't forget that aside from a few decent cameos he was largely shite in blue. Now he might have potential, and I think there's a player in there for sure... But to expect him to come straight into the team and be a big player is optimistic to say the least.
He's only played a handful of games for us and has made a decent impact in quite a few of them, so I would hardly say he's been "largely shite in blue". He's a young lad, so a bit of inconsistency is surely to be expected. We haven't got many (if any) who can change a game the way he did at Anfield in the FA Cup. He's got to be in the team next year or he will move on and be successful somewhere else.
Post by: di_guyo on May 14, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Fair point. But i think the general feeling (mine, certainly) is more that his 'potential' looks to be greater than anybody we could reasonably attract.
Added to that the 2 men in there with him are seasoned professionals at their pomp and both easily clever enough to make up for Lookmans youthful exuberance causing mistakes?
The potential gains far than make up for the short-term inexperience based mistakes he will put in a lot of the time.
Yeah I get that. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE him to come here and smash it, just think expectations are too high atm. I still think we need another winger, there's no depth of quality there - bolasie isn't cutting it, vlasic isn't really a winger, and lookman is stuill potential. I was amazed at the negativity when we were linked with Shaqiri.
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on May 14, 2018, 03:31:42 PM
Folks short term memory is terrible. He hardly did any thing when he did get a game.
That said, he’s kicked on in the last few months and I’m sure he’ll go on to become a very good player near the very top level.
He’s a much better prospect than DCL by a country mile.
Post by: di_guyo on May 14, 2018, 03:32:23 PM
He's only played a handful of games for us and has made a decent impact in quite a few of them, so I would hardly say he's been "largely shite in blue". He's a young lad, so a bit of inconsistency is surely to be expected. We haven't got many (if any) who can change a game the way he did at Anfield in the FA Cup. He's got to be in the team next year or he will move on and be successful somewhere else.
If he's not ready, he's not ready. I don't think we should be forcing him in if its not going to improve the team, just on the hope that he could come good at some point.
A few of his bench appearances were decent, when given the chance to start he was poor. He was raw and not ready to play at that level, few games in Germany and now he's the solution to all our problems.
Post by: Cereal Killer on May 14, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
Oh how we love a youngster. Let's not overreact here. Hearing comments around building a team around him... He's had a few good games in a lesser league and some people are talking about him like a world beater. Don't forget that aside from a few decent cameos he was largely shite in blue. Now he might have potential, and I think there's a player in there for sure... But to expect him to come straight into the team and be a big player is optimistic to say the least.
I agree with most of that, but lesser league? Don't be clouded by Sky constantly pumping out the Premiership is the best thing ever, the league has been terrible this year
Post by: Alanvideo on May 14, 2018, 03:33:46 PM
Post by: di_guyo on May 14, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
I agree with most of that, but lesser league? Don't be clouded by Sky constantly pumping out the Premiership is the best thing ever, the league has been terrible this year
While I don't disagree, it's still better than bundesliga. It's perhaps not as competitive, but the level of play is still a cut above and move demanding.
Post by: themilkycoffees on May 14, 2018, 03:39:53 PM
If he's not ready, he's not ready. I don't think we should be forcing him in if its not going to improve the team, just on the hope that he could come good at some point.
A few of his bench appearances were decent, when given the chance to start he was poor. He was raw and not ready to play at that level, few games in Germany and now he's the solution to all our problems.
Who has said he is the solution to all of our problems? I agree he's raw but you can clearly see that he's a big talent and if we don't play him, someone else will. I don't see how he doesn't get in our team. Much, much better than Bolasie and will only get better. The German league is not some Micky mouse league either so 5 goals and a few assists in 11 games shouldn't be ignored, especially at Lookman's age.
Post by: di_guyo on May 14, 2018, 03:43:50 PM
Who has said he is the solution to all of our problems? I agree he's raw but you can clearly see that he's a big talent and if we don't play him, someone else will. I don't see how he doesn't get in our team. Much, much better than Bolasie and will only get better. The German league is not some Micky mouse league either so 5 goals and a few assists in 11 games shouldn't be ignored, especially at Lookman's age.
Again, could easily just be a purple patch and a handful of goals doesn't define a player. If he had done it for a full season or more I'd not be arguing.
Post by: themilkycoffees on May 14, 2018, 03:50:49 PM
Again, could easily just be a purple patch and a handful of goals doesn't define a player. If he had done it for a full season or more I'd not be arguing.
Alright mate. The kid is 20, scoring and making goals in a top league but let's not get a little bit excited because he hasn't done it all season. Not many players were consistently brilliant at 20 years of age. The little flashes of brilliance we've seen so far will surely come more often with more game time. If this lad played for the shite, they'd be talking him up saying he's going to be world class.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 14, 2018, 04:24:30 PM
He is however the only 1 who looks to have the talent to ever have a chance to make a big impact at a top team. Surely that makes it worth playing him week in and week out and taking the rough with the smooth
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on May 14, 2018, 06:11:17 PM
Looking forward to seeing if he can strike up rapport with Baines.
Post by: Lxxx on May 14, 2018, 07:02:48 PM
Lookman was unfortunate to play very little with either Baines or Coleman. If at all.
Looking forward to seeing if he can strike up rapport with Baines.
Playing on that side with Baines looks far preferable than with Coleman.
We just need to invest in the lad. Tell him he’s the future, give him an extended run, reassure him he’ll have poor games but as long as we can see he’s learning he’ll get our backing. That’s all any young player with talent needs to hear.
Post by: kramer0 on May 14, 2018, 07:20:13 PM
How many players have we seen show plenty of promise initially only to stall badly and get swept aside? That’s a coaching problem. We’ve seen a lot of young players get the early bump in quality that comes from playing regular games but it’s no surprise that nobody’s getting to that next level when they’re learning from pretenders like Martinez and dinosaurs like Koeman and Allardyce.
We missed a great chance when we passed on Favre two summers ago. Say what you want about him actually winning things but he’s a quality manager when it comes to player development and we could have used that with all the young talent we had in/around the first team at the time.
Post by: Mick 1995 on May 14, 2018, 08:07:45 PM
We need coaches that can help provide young players with the tools they need to get to that next level.
How many players have we seen show plenty of promise initially only to stall badly and get swept aside? That’s a coaching problem. We’ve seen a lot of young players get the early bump in quality that comes from playing regular games but it’s no surprise that nobody’s getting to that next level when they’re learning from pretenders like Martinez and dinosaurs like Koeman and Allardyce.
We missed a great chance when we passed on Favre two summers ago. Say what you want about him actually winning things but he’s a quality manager when it comes to player development and we could have used that with all the young talent we had in/around the first team at the time.
Davies is a shining light by way of an example.
Fans of other clubs have started calling him a yard-dog to me. Any decent manager bring him on.
What we had, however, was him getting thrown to the wolves and ran into the ground.
Our fans willingness to write players like Keane off all contributes to our club being a terrible place for people to learn their game at the moment.
Post by: kramer0 on May 14, 2018, 08:30:26 PM
Our fans willingness to write players like Keane off all contributes to our club being a terrible place for people to learn their game at the moment.
Most football fans form opinions quickly. It's not just Evertonians.
The flip side is that opinions change quickly as well. Any of the players who have underperformed this past season will be immediately forgiven if they suit the new manager's style and perform better in (what will hopefully be) a coherent system.
Post by: Toddacelli on May 15, 2018, 05:08:10 AM
Lookman, Keane (to a lesser extent), Vlasic, Klaasen...
Lookman has gone to a club where he seems to be able to play without fear, express himself and enjoy his football while he learns - and all this is done on the pitch.
You won't learn a lot from the bench or wherever the hell it is where Vlasic has been sent to.
Post by: Brownie on June 10, 2018, 04:52:19 AM
Post by: Trowel on June 10, 2018, 05:30:34 AM
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/ademola-lookman-chance-everton-says-14750024.amp
"I can be clear in that because I know the player very well," he said. "He was on my list at PSV (to sign). He is a very talented young player and I think he has to be moved up next year (to the first team squad)."
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on June 10, 2018, 05:50:22 AM
Just sayin’.
Post by: van der Meyde on June 10, 2018, 06:28:30 AM
Err you don’t pick the team Marcel.He can restrict Silva's options in that position so that Lookman has to be picked though. :)
Just sayin’.
Post by: Bluedylan on June 10, 2018, 07:49:15 AM
Err you don’t pick the team Marcel.
Just sayin’.
I think the fact that he's come out and said it so definitively is a clear indication that both him and Silva feel the same way about this matter.
Great to hear, but not surprising given the profile of players he has talked about.
Post by: Silas on June 10, 2018, 01:51:02 PM
Post by: Morta75 on June 10, 2018, 02:20:02 PM
Post by: Juanito on June 10, 2018, 03:13:56 PM
Err you don’t pick the team Marcel.
Just sayin’.
He is making up for Sam’s stupid, passive aggressive comment about listening for offers for him. What an absolute idiot.
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on June 10, 2018, 04:29:29 PM
I think the fact that he's come out and said it so definitively is a clear indication that both him and Silva feel the same way about this matter.
Great to hear, but not surprising given the profile of players he has talked about.
That’s fine. I’m a big fan of Lookman but he’s still not ready to start week in week out imo. Not in the premier league. Also I’d kinda hoped we’d spend big on a player to play on the left. If we sign Lozano where does that leave Lookman?
Hopefully Lookman can be convinced to stay and compete for a starting spot but I’m not so sure. It would be good to hear from him, positive or negative in terms of his position and future at Everton.
Out of all our youngsters, he’s got the most potential imo so we should seek to keep him at all costs, aside from if his inclusion week in week out is detrimental to results, which it may prove to be, until he reaches said potential.
Post by: blargins on June 10, 2018, 07:15:03 PM
That means we can focus on other areas of the team given we don't have a ton of time left.
Post by: dunkster on June 10, 2018, 08:09:38 PM
Post by: Juanito on June 10, 2018, 09:24:16 PM
That’s fine. I’m a big fan of Lookman but he’s still not ready to start week in week out imo. Not in the premier league. Also I’d kinda hoped we’d spend big on a player to play on the left. If we sign Lozano where does that leave Lookman?
Hopefully Lookman can be convinced to stay and compete for a starting spot but I’m not so sure. It would be good to hear from him, positive or negative in terms of his position and future at Everton.
Out of all our youngsters, he’s got the most potential imo so we should seek to keep him at all costs, aside from if his inclusion week in week out is detrimental to results, which it may prove to be, until he reaches said potential.
Bolasie started week in week out and got progressively worse - Lookman showed he improved week in week out in the Bundesliga and we should show him we trust him. That’s how a side like ours can develop and maintain top talent for as long as possible. Looks like Brands thinks the same.
Post by: Audrey Horne on June 10, 2018, 09:38:39 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on June 10, 2018, 10:32:23 PM
He is making up for Sam’s stupid, passive aggressive comment about listening for offers for him. What an absolute idiot.
We are still gonna need lots of therapy to come to grips with the fact last season actually happened!
Post by: Mick 1995 on June 10, 2018, 10:40:12 PM
I'd be happy to give Lookman 6 months and if he's still not doing it, buy an upgrade in the winter.
That means we can focus on other areas of the team given we don't have a ton of time left.
Reckon I could get on board with this.
Happy for him and Vlasic to share that spot till Jan 1st.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on June 10, 2018, 10:40:20 PM
Lookman needs to be heavily involved next year as does Holgate. This is the ideal season to let some of these younger players loose
Absolutely. You might have a fantastic young winger on your hands. Find out. You might have a well-above average, young CB with speed and physicality on your hands. Find out. They're even English, FFS, for those who give a rat's arse about such things.
Post by: Bluedylan on June 10, 2018, 11:15:56 PM
I'd be happy to give Lookman 6 months and if he's still not doing it, buy an upgrade in the winter.
That means we can focus on other areas of the team given we don't have a ton of time left.
That seems like a weird thing to say, if you don't mind me saying. He's 20 years old. You have to expect inconsistency and peaks and troughs. You don't arbitrarily just sack an incredibly talented kid off after 6 months, if they haven't been consistent. It's about building something, and allowing young players space to grow and make mistakes, if necessary, with the intention of reaping the rewards further down the line.
Post by: blargins on June 10, 2018, 11:21:56 PM
That seems like a weird thing to say, if you don't mind me saying. He's 20 years old. You have to expect inconsistency and peaks and troughs. You don't arbitrarily just sack an incredibly talented kid off after 6 months, if they haven't been consistent. It's about building something, and allowing young players space to grow and make mistakes, if necessary, with the intention of reaping the rewards further down the line.
I think within 6 months we'll at least be able to see if he has something or not. I don't see the point in buying big for that position this summer given we're on a budget again with more important positions to sort out.
But if he's flopping badly and not contributing anything to the team, then an upgrade becomes a necessity. Last season we saw Bolasie isn't the answer. Let's see if Lookman is going to be and review from there. Think that's pretty fair myself.
Post by: Bluedylan on June 10, 2018, 11:25:03 PM
I think within 6 months we'll at least be able to see if he has something or not. I don't see the point in buying big for that position this summer given we're on a budget again with more important positions to sort out.
But if he's flopping badly and not contributing anything to the team, then an upgrade becomes a necessity. Last season we saw Bolasie isn't the answer. Let's see if Lookman is going to be and review from there. Think that's pretty fair myself.
Dude, we know he has something. That's not even a question. His time at Leipzig put an end to that discussion, and our new DoF wanted to sign him for his previous club. I think you'll see him be a prominent player for the club this season, and if he's not, then I'd suggest that is a failure of management. The ability is oozing out of him, and it seems like the most progressive, forward thinking scouts/DoFs around Europe are all well aware of that, and would love to get him.
Brands' quote (and one of the first things he's said about any of our player's specifically, which tells you a lot):
Quote
“I can be clear in that because I know the player very well.
“He was on my list at PSV (to sign). He is a very talented young player and I think he has to be moved up next year (to the first team squad).”
Post by: Juanito on June 10, 2018, 11:29:26 PM
We are still gonna need lots of therapy to come to grips with the fact last season actually happened!
I recommend Trauma Therapy and we do it all as a group. Acceptance is key. ‘Sam did come into our lives but he is gone now’.
Post by: blargins on June 10, 2018, 11:35:15 PM
Dude, we know he has something. That's not even a question. His time at Leipzig put an end to that discussion, and our new DoF wanted to sign him for his previous club. I think you'll see him be a prominent player for the club this season, and if he's not, then I'd suggest that is a failure of management. The ability is oozing out of him, and it seems like the most progressive, forward thinking scouts/DoFs around Europe are all well aware of that, and would love to get him.
Brands' quote (and one of the first things he's said about any of our player's specifically, which tells you a lot):
Listen, I hope he does make it, he's shown flashes for us in the past. But we still don't know how he'll fare in an important role for us in the Prem. He did well in Leipzig after a slow start, and I hope he can continue that form for us. But if he's struggling and done nothing for us in 6 months, then we would be daft not to explore other options.
So I am all for giving him a chance and a proper run in the first team to show what he can do. But if there are minimal results from that run, then do you persevere or do you look to improve by looking to buy someone else more proven?
Post by: Macca77 on June 10, 2018, 11:36:13 PM
Yes, I went there
Post by: Evertonian in NC on June 11, 2018, 01:21:01 AM
He'll be like a new signing
Yes, I went there
Indeed. If we were buying him off Leipzig, we'd be over the moon.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on June 11, 2018, 01:24:40 AM
Indeed. If we were buying him off Leipzig, we'd be over the moon.
I’d be livid. He’s our player. We have done some shitty business recently but buying our own player would be pretty bad
Post by: blue slug on June 11, 2018, 02:53:07 AM
Post by: Shogun on June 11, 2018, 02:59:04 AM
Get rid of bolasie and miralles before even thinking about selling lookman
Mirallas will be...
ah fuck it.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on June 11, 2018, 03:04:19 AM
Mirallas will be...
ah fuck it.
Do you really rate him or are you joking?
Post by: Lxxx on June 11, 2018, 05:26:28 PM
Listen, I hope he does make it, he's shown flashes for us in the past. But we still don't know how he'll fare in an important role for us in the Prem. He did well in Leipzig after a slow start, and I hope he can continue that form for us. But if he's struggling and done nothing for us in 6 months, then we would be daft not to explore other options.
So I am all for giving him a chance and a proper run in the first team to show what he can do. But if there are minimal results from that run, then do you persevere or do you look to improve by looking to buy someone else more proven?
I'd like to see him change positions then. I think he has a touch of the Raheem Sterling about him and as much as jazz hand's game has it's flaws he's an exciting player who is allowed to pop up wherever he sees fit across the final third, which is what you want from your front three ideally. If you had him and Walcott allowed to attack the box from both flanks we suddenly have an unpredictable threat we haven't had in years.
Post by: blargins on June 11, 2018, 05:32:52 PM
I'd like to see him change positions then. I think he has a touch of the Raheem Sterling about him and as much as jazz hand's game has it's flaws he's an exciting player who is allowed to pop up wherever he sees fit across the final third, which is what you want from your front three ideally. If you had him and Walcott allowed to attack the box from both flanks we suddenly have an unpredictable threat we haven't had in years.
Sounds good to me.
Post by: Toddacelli on June 11, 2018, 05:41:30 PM
Listen, I hope he does make it, he's shown flashes for us in the past. But we still don't know how he'll fare in an important role for us in the Prem. He did well in Leipzig after a slow start, and I hope he can continue that form for us. But if he's struggling and done nothing for us in 6 months, then we would be daft not to explore other options.
So I am all for giving him a chance and a proper run in the first team to show what he can do. But if there are minimal results from that run, then do you persevere or do you look to improve by looking to buy someone else more proven?
You have to persevere.
If it were me I would tell the lad that he has up until November, then I'm resting him:
He has assurance that I am backing him however he plays.
If I do drop him it is a pre-arranged plan and not a knock to his confidence.
Any dips in form I have taken the pressure off.
Vlasic gets November and December before the busy Christmas period and at that point I hope I have a selection headache going into January and if I don't...
...hello window!
Post by: dax78 on June 11, 2018, 06:01:16 PM
Post by: Cozzie on June 11, 2018, 06:40:08 PM
We would be mad to even consider selling.
He will be ace next season.
Post by: blargins on June 11, 2018, 06:40:22 PM
You have to persevere.
If it were me I would tell the lad that he has up until November, then I'm resting him:
He has assurance that I am backing him however he plays.
If I do drop him it is a pre-arranged plan and not a knock to his confidence.
Any dips in form I have taken the pressure off.
Vlasic gets November and December before the busy Christmas period and at that point I hope I have a selection headache going into January and if I don't...
...hello window!
Confused. In one breath you're saying persevere and then you're saying he just has a couple of months otherwise into the window we go.
Post by: Free Agent on June 11, 2018, 07:23:50 PM
Confused. In one breath you're saying persevere and then you're saying he just has a couple of months otherwise into the window we go.
Everton that...
Post by: Evertonian in NC on June 11, 2018, 08:38:32 PM
Everton that...
If I can't get around having a funeral at all (what a waste of time and money), I want assurances that one of my kids says that at the service. A bonus in the will, perhaps?
Post by: Waltzer on June 11, 2018, 08:42:16 PM
Surely Lookman ticks every box when it comes to the profile of player Brands has been talking about.
We would be mad to even consider selling.
He will be ace next season.
Youd like to think so considering Brands tried to sign him last season at PSV. Sounds like everything in place for Lookman to make a go of it and I suspect itll be over to him now to prove his worth in a system that suits his style
Post by: Toddacelli on June 11, 2018, 10:49:33 PM
Confused. In one breath you're saying persevere and then you're saying he just has a couple of months otherwise into the window we go.
Ha!
I'm saying give him a timeframe up front - at least a couple of months - and persevere with him through that time, EVEN if his form is erratic.
BUT (and this is where it gets clever)
You have a pre-agreed date to 'rest' him.
So at that point you have a choice:
a) tell him it's rest time - not knocking his confidence because it was already agreed
or
b) keep him in and tell him he's made it impossible for you to leave him out because he's on FIRE!
Post by: tisonlyjk on June 12, 2018, 12:37:25 AM
Only worry is people expecting too much. I don’t see him lighting the place up straight away and there’s dopes that will get on his back after a game or two.
Post by: Lxxx on June 12, 2018, 01:37:25 AM
Excited to see the lad get a run of games because I think he has the potential to be very good.
Only worry is people expecting too much. I don’t see him lighting the place up straight away and there’s dopes that will get on his back after a game or two.
There's nothing more certain.
Post by: brap2 on June 12, 2018, 03:24:46 AM
I can honestly see him hitting pure purple patches this year, and maybe hitting double figures in the prem.
Post by: kramer0 on June 12, 2018, 03:42:02 AM
Bad sign because I’m very rarely right but I can’t wait to see Lookman playing the Richarlison role. Get in good positions and shoot on sight.
I can honestly see him hitting pure purple patches this year, and maybe hitting double figures in the prem.
Not that I rate his opinion that highly but in in that Everton Show clip that someone posted awhile back Steve Walsh seemed utterly convinced that Lookman was close to Lukaku's level as a finisher.
If Silva can help him get into quality goalscoring positions, like he did with Richarlison last season, it's not hard to imagine him scoring his fair share.
Post by: brap2 on June 12, 2018, 03:58:15 AM
Not that I rate his opinion that highly but in in that Everton Show clip that someone posted awhile back Steve Walsh seemed utterly convinced that Lookman was close to Lukaku's level as a finisher.
If Silva can help him get into quality goalscoring positions, like he did with Richarlison last season, it's not hard to imagine him scoring his fair share.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking to be honest. Improve his shot selection but up his shot numbers and he has a mega, mega year.
Richarlison closer to Arnautovic in physique but Lookman can get away from people 1v1 I think potentially better than either.
Post by: Tofifee on June 13, 2018, 01:33:42 AM
Lookman Gylfi Theo
Gana McCarthy
That might work!! Relax now lads, we forget how good McCarthy was under Bobby and if he gets fit again he is the best we have to fill that roll
Ademola would THRIVE in that unit if you ask me
Post by: Shogun on June 13, 2018, 01:35:28 AM
Post by: Tofifee on June 13, 2018, 01:43:47 AM
if he is a holding CM with licence to go forward from time to time and watch the house most of the time, he is very effective adn has been for us in the past
Post by: brap2 on June 13, 2018, 02:08:00 AM
Cenk
Lookman Gylfi Theo
Gana McCarthy
That might work!! Relax now lads, we forget how good McCarthy was under Bobby and if he gets fit again he is the best we have to fill that roll
Ademola would THRIVE in that unit if you ask me
Would be depressing watching those two CMs try and pass the ball into the final third.
Post by: Jimmywhack on June 13, 2018, 02:16:03 AM
McCarthy and gueye are our best players at pressing and winning the ball back
If they had easy options to lay it off too, simply, it wouldn't be the end of the world
Then again, they are both piss poor going forward
Post by: Juanito on June 13, 2018, 02:16:38 AM
Cenk
Lookman Gylfi Theo
Gana McCarthy
That might work!! Relax now lads, we forget how good McCarthy was under Bobby and if he gets fit again he is the best we have to fill that roll
Ademola would THRIVE in that unit if you ask me
I think T cos he had Barry next to him, who could pass the ball forward, two dynamic full backs and a quick striker up top.
We suit a 4-3-3
Pickford
Coleman Holgate CB LB
Gana Sigurdsson CM
Lookman Walcott Lozano
Post by: Cozzie on June 13, 2018, 03:37:47 AM
Mccarthy is shite
Hes not really though is he.
When hes fit I actually think he is half decent.
He is incredibly limited in what he does with the ball granted but you have to think what role Silva wants him to play.
In a pressing style I think he could do ok.
In the derby that time at Goodison when Mane scored in the 209th minute, before McCarthy went off injured I felt we where doing well because he was one of the very few who actually bothered pressing their players.
I wouldn't be arsed if he was sold like don't get me wrong but I think it's harsh to call him shite.
The last manager who tried at least to get at least some form of an attacking game going was Martinez and in his first season McCarthy was one of the key players, he may be under Silva although I highly doubt it.
Hes not gonna be sold due to the extent of his injury anyway so we will see what happens when he returns.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on June 13, 2018, 03:48:47 AM
Post by: TheRam on June 13, 2018, 04:24:04 AM
Vile shite.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on June 13, 2018, 04:26:14 AM
Post by: dunkster on June 13, 2018, 05:26:50 AM
Cenk
Lookman Gylfi Theo
Gana McCarthy
That might work!! Relax now lads, we forget how good McCarthy was under Bobby and if he gets fit again he is the best we have to fill that roll
Ademola would THRIVE in that unit if you ask me
Never get out of own half with McCarthy and gana there
Post by: gizzblue on June 13, 2018, 06:17:24 AM
Post by: Shogun on June 13, 2018, 06:24:39 AM
Mccarthy is shite
And the worst part about this is that @Major Clanger (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=181) called it before anyone and we ridiculed him.
Post by: Tony Clifton on June 13, 2018, 06:36:12 AM
Post by: Gash on June 13, 2018, 07:38:34 AM
And the worst part about this is that @Major Clanger (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=181) called it before anyone and we ridiculed him.
@TheRam (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1602) will enjoy this. ;)
http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42750.0
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on June 13, 2018, 12:10:31 PM
McCarthy is 20 x the French surrender monkey ever was ....and for that alone he's worth keeping if we fuck Schneiderlin off .
Isn’t calling someone a French surrender monkey pretty offensive
Post by: gizzblue on June 13, 2018, 02:33:34 PM
Isn’t calling someone a French surrender monkey pretty offensive
Isn't turning up and not doing your job week in week out pretty bad too and frauding a living?.
Not really against the French either just a descriptive of his football over the last 18 months .
And this from a self confessed hater of all players .
Post by: TheRam on June 13, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
@TheRam (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1602) will enjoy this. ;)
http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42750.0
Hahah ffs.
To be fair he was decent in that first season.
Really stagnated since then.
Post by: Bluedylan on June 13, 2018, 03:02:36 PM
Isn't turning up and not doing your job week in week out pretty bad too and frauding a living?.
Not really against the French either just a descriptive of his football over the last 18 months .
And this from a self confessed hater of all players .
Yeah it's a bit offensive in fairness, dude. I know you're just meaning to make a point about Schneiderlin.
But it's really quite unfair on the French, this whole myth of their cowardice. They fought very bravely in both wars, and had we had a land border with Nazi Germany we'd have been steamrollered.
http://theconversation.com/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys-its-time-to-give-the-french-army-the-credit-it-deserves-81853
Post by: Mick 1995 on June 13, 2018, 05:53:27 PM
Yeah it's a bit offensive in fairness, dude. I know you're just meaning to make a point about Schneiderlin.
But it's really quite unfair on the French, this whole myth of their cowardice. They fought very bravely in both wars, and had we had a land border with Nazi Germany we'd have been steamrollered.
http://theconversation.com/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys-its-time-to-give-the-french-army-the-credit-it-deserves-81853
Whilst agreeing with your entire point, if we had a land border with any continental power then our land army would have been significantly deeper than the BEF was.
In fact, i'm off to find if anybody has written any alt-fiction about the English channel being a land bridge because the world would be a very different place if it was.
Post by: Bluedylan on June 13, 2018, 05:58:20 PM
Whilst agreeing with your entire point, if we had a land border with any continental power then our land army would have been significantly deeper than the BEF was.
In fact, i'm off to find if anybody has written any alt-fiction about the English channel being a land bridge because the world would be a very different place if it was.
Point taken. Still don't think we could've defended a 280 mile border.
Post by: gizzblue on June 13, 2018, 06:11:58 PM
Point taken. Still don't think we could've defended a 280 mile border.
Despite what the French did or didn't do in the war ...doesn't give him the right to ignore attackers while he nonchalantly saunters back to his own box .. ..despite his world beating last two appearances were he was mildly better than fucking useless.
*surprising what a shop window mentality can do* .
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on June 13, 2018, 06:35:07 PM
He shouldn't get near the team again
Post by: sam of the south on June 14, 2018, 03:45:25 AM
Post by: blue slug on June 14, 2018, 03:54:41 AM
I still think McCarthy is a really effective player when near to full fitness, which I know is never, but when his hamstrings aren’t threatening to snap he harries as well as anyone and is tidy in possession.
Unfortunately he never is fit is he
Post by: sam of the south on June 14, 2018, 03:58:31 AM
Unfortunately he never is fit is he
No, very very rarely, and then he only lasts for about 45 minutes before breaking down again it seems
Post by: Juanito on June 14, 2018, 04:00:02 AM
I still think McCarthy is a really effective player when near to full fitness, which I know is never, but when his hamstrings aren’t threatening to snap he harries as well as anyone and is tidy in possession.
I agree with two ballers next to him, with his job being to pass 5 yard balls to them. Question of mentality though when more is asked of him.
Post by: sam of the south on June 14, 2018, 04:16:37 AM
I agree with two ballers next to him, with his job being to pass 5 yard balls to them. Question of mentality though when more is asked of him.
Yeah, he was great with Barry in that first season, particularly in his pressing and in the cover he provided Coleman when he was marauding forward.
His game was built on energy, and once his energy was compromised by being on a constant injury cycle he became a bit of a bottler as well.
Post by: dunkster on June 14, 2018, 05:40:30 AM
Pissed me off every time he ran off to play for the national team when he wasn't even fit for us.
Post by: howard1334 on June 14, 2018, 10:53:02 AM
Fuck McCarthy off. When someone's that injury prone they are just a waste of money.
Pissed me off every time he ran off to play for the national team when he wasn't even fit for us.
Yeah, i get that he likes repping his national team but it got ridiculous. He not only showed a bit of disrespect for Everton as his primary employer, but also, he may have compromised the rest of his career.
Post by: Normm on June 28, 2018, 12:09:01 AM
Hopefully, Silva will give him far more game time in the new set-up. Lookman is too good to lose at this stage in his career.
Post by: brap2 on June 28, 2018, 12:17:17 AM
Post by: Cozzie on June 28, 2018, 01:08:08 AM
Post by: TheRam on June 28, 2018, 01:14:08 AM
Hopefully he sees the bigger picture but can’t blame him for wanting to join RB.
Post by: Paddockoldie on June 28, 2018, 01:24:56 AM
Post by: gizzblue on June 28, 2018, 01:53:09 AM
Post by: Fynci on June 28, 2018, 01:56:08 AM
Paper talk at the moment but SA disrespected him and probably hurt him by what he said. This kid is gonna be dynamite with the right coaching and the chance.. Got to make him feel part of the club again, and sharpish.
Needs an arm around the shoulder, a bit like Barkl.... oh never mind.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on June 28, 2018, 02:03:30 AM
Post by: gizzblue on June 28, 2018, 02:05:36 AM
If we're happy to blame Allardyce for absolutely everything that's been a fuck up lately, we won't be happy for long...
So do you think he had fuck all to do with Lookman going to Derby.....sorry Germany lolol
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on June 28, 2018, 02:09:50 AM
So do you think he had fuck all to do with Lookman going to Derby.....sorry Germany lolol
I don’t think he’s been disrespected and hurt. It’s bloody nonsense
He got chances with us and in the main wasn’t good enough. Went on loan and did great. I don’t see the problem in terms of lookmans feelings. Christ even if it were true the people who have disrespected and hurt him are no longer here
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on June 28, 2018, 02:17:58 AM
So do you think he had fuck all to do with Lookman going to Derby.....sorry Germany lololNot saying he didn't or did mate but there is a trend of him being blamed for everything and it just isn't true, if only it were all that simple, there's better run sunday teams than us the last few years.
Post by: Shogun on June 28, 2018, 03:03:41 AM
Post by: gizzblue on June 28, 2018, 03:49:23 AM
Not saying he didn't or did mate but there is a trend of him being blamed for everything and it just isn't true, if only it were all that simple, there's better run sunday teams than us the last few years.
Tbh can't argue with any of that ...but think Sam dropped a bollock sending him out when we only had a semi bricked Bolasie who was less than shite .
but as much as I would love to blame Sam for everything (hate everything about him even before he joined)..we were shite way before under Martinez and Koeman. ..although I'm now hoping our owner has learnt a valuable expensive lesson and seem to be moving on to where Lookman, Holgate ,Benni,Jjk ,DCL ,Robinson ,Dowell etc etc will all progress well and not be sent out on loan while we keep signing shite ...over the hillers .
Post by: Evertonian in NC on June 28, 2018, 03:49:37 AM
Post by: D15TIN on June 28, 2018, 04:04:54 AM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on June 28, 2018, 04:32:08 AM
I think the bloke is a bit war torn and is completely lost in the modern game. Thinking he can get through the job by acting the big man when the game has changed.
Post by: Ross on June 28, 2018, 04:52:37 AM
Not saying he didn't or did mate but there is a trend of him being blamed for everything and it just isn't true, if only it were all that simple, there's better run sunday teams than us the last few years.
Exactly Allardyce should never have been in the position to manage young promising talents like Lookman in the first place.
All Allardyce did was be Allardyce, Lookman wasn’t the only young player looking for a move last January either. Need to look elsewhere if Lookman now thinks the grass is greener elsewhere.
Post by: Shropshire Blue on June 28, 2018, 05:04:56 AM
Sam has gone we need to look ahead. Lookman will do what every player does today, what he and his agent (and Lukaku''s dad) thinks is right for him.
Post by: Bluedylan on June 28, 2018, 05:22:02 AM
We had 38 members in the squad - 13 more than Silva wants. There were loads of kids in there and we were in a relegation battle. Someone had to go either on loan or permanently. He was criticised for using too many young players and not enough young players. He was criticised for not giving enough players game time - that would be slightly less than one game in three with 38 in the squad etc etc etc.
Sam has gone we need to look ahead. Lookman will do what every player does today, what he and his agent (and Lukaku''s dad) thinks is right for him.
When was he criticised for using too many young players?
Post by: TheRam on June 28, 2018, 05:26:52 AM
If we're happy to blame Allardyce for absolutely everything that's been a fuck up lately, we won't be happy for long...
Not blaming him for everything but he takes a lot of responsibility for this one.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on June 28, 2018, 12:37:16 PM
Not blaming him for everything but he takes a lot of responsibility for this one.He has to he was the manager when he went out, he probably got a bung....All i meant is we all found it convenient at times to blame him for things that he had no bearing on, it was probably because he was a bent, arrogant arse hole.
Post by: Lxxx on June 28, 2018, 01:04:39 PM
Post by: Normm on June 28, 2018, 11:32:11 PM
He's under contract, Brands rates him and Silva wants to play a different way to the manager's we've had the past few years. He's going nowhere. Total non story.
I certainly hope you're right!
What causes me some doubt is the report of Silva favouring the idea of bringing in Carvalho. I just hope that is another non-story because that alone makes me question his judgement - and we've not even kicked off yet!
Post by: Lxxx on June 29, 2018, 01:23:12 AM
I certainly hope you're right!
What causes me some doubt is the report of Silva favouring the idea of bringing in Carvalho. I just hope that is another non-story because that alone makes me question his judgement - and we've not even kicked off yet!
Let’s pass judgement on facts not speculation. There’s fuck all happening at the minute other than a few bored agents and journalists looking to make a bit of news.
Post by: Toddacelli on June 29, 2018, 02:14:44 PM
Let’s pass judgement on facts not speculation. There’s fuck all happening at the minute other than a few bored agents and journalists looking to make a bit of news.
This.
Even when there is nothing happening they have to sell papers - so what do you suppose they do? That's when you'll see the most stories along the lines of 'going in for his old player...' or 'worked with him at...' and the most tenuous of all tenuous links - 'could link up with friend and international teammate...' which would be like linking us with any Senegalese player on the basis we already have one at the club.
Post by: Hawkandro on June 29, 2018, 02:16:31 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on June 29, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 07:39:37 AM
One thing is for certain, if we do lose this kid, I won't be blaming Silva or Brands. This fuck up would lie squarely on Big Sam's hairy shoulders.
Some of it has to be laid at some of our our fans with their absolute philistine/almost luddite type attitude to football.
The amount of shit i heard against Lookman at Goodison last year was bang out of order whilst Tom Davies had shite games and got half the flak.
To be fair people have realised Lookman is a good player and that is a good thing but it annoys me how we pertain to appreciate quality players at Everton and its all about the 'School of Science' and playing attacking/attractive football. I know at Everton we like our players to be edgy but we still seem to have a prejudice towards players who try to play a bit such as ball playing defenders like John Stones and midfielders like Barkley and give Lookman a hard time. Your not going to be the School of Science without those players and definetly not with Tom Davies, Ashley Williams or even (both of whom i actually rate) DCL or Cenk Tosun in the team.
Ademola definetly has the potential to play in a front 3. He is a great mix of a winger and a forward and could possibly be our Raheem Sterling. Lookman and Walcott playing together is a mouth watering prospect.
Post by: Jamokachi on July 04, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Some of it has to be laid at some of our our fans with their absolute philistine/almost luddite type attitude to football.
I say this for your own benefit, give it a rest.
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 07:42:31 AM
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 07:44:38 AM
Some big shouts there Tommy, not sure I agree with Davies any Cenk being shite
Cenk is good mate.
I just mean if Man Utd had a list of players there scouts had compiled, he'd be on the b list.
We need to do what Man City did which is (somehow) punch up into the A List. I'd love Di Maria at Everton but its not happening.
For now we need to keep and appreciate players like Lookman. The main reason he is leaving is he doesn't feel wanted/appreciated here, right? @Jamokachi (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=9)
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 07:50:13 AM
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 07:51:32 AM
I say this for your own benefit, give it a rest.
This is probably a good natured warning, but it won't surprise you to hear I always speak my mind and I've never been afraid to air an opinion and stick to it even if its unpopular. A Karma rating of -3000 would not change my view on that. But to be constructive in response, let me ask you this then......
Many fans have complained we don't have a footballing philosophy/style/plan at the club......at least in the last few years anyway. A DNA that says how Everton teams must play from the youth academy to the first team.
Lookman should be the signing example of the type of player and football we wish to develop at Everton. I accept we also like people with an edge, and with DCL I can see a bit of both along with Tosun whilst Theo Walcott is a seasoned pro but also a player for the purist.
In short, we need a balance. I hope Lookman stays. If he does all our fans will realise what a cracker we have. Hopefully with KT playing on the same wing as him after us giving Celtic a kings ransom.
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 07:57:36 AM
I’m confident the Lookman scenario will be sorted with M&M in charge, Di Maria we can all dream but he’s a CL player all day. Cenk has done ok with his limited opportunities last season and I’m confident he’ll kick on for us and get 15+ next season, and yes he’s not top drawer but who is that would come to us atm?
(I'm obviously just salivating here pal/all hyperbole but.......)
If Lookman leaves it makes us look crap to other promising young players. This is probably a development of the point I made to @Jamokachi (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=9) earlier who although we can disagree we can always debate and then put the ball away which is sound. Lookman didn't find it cosy here (thats how young players may see it) and couldn't develop or be coached here. It would damage the clubs reputation (a well deserved one by the way) for coaching and developing young players internally and externally.
So our stategy and footballing philosophy needs to incorporate stylish players who have an edge but also young players. As discussed Lookman is a good ecample of the first part of that and if he works on the edginess and finer points of his game he will improve. The last part of the jigsaw will be the 'Man City' moment where we sign a player that is blatantly punching above our weight before we've reached the top echelons of European football.
I hope I see the day where people like Lookman shine and are playing alongside the experienced top draw players such as the Cavani's (headed goal against Celtic and general play is out of this world), Fernandihno's (who makes Gana look ordinary) and Millik (basically a Tosun upgrade). Thats when we'll be the School of Science.
Thats my heart talking. My head says its a pipe dream but we could and should dream. We haven't won a trophy in 23 years. So the Lookman issue is not only about incorporating young promising players but also teaming them next to seriously respected top pros. Theo Walcott is a bridge towards that path.
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 08:02:24 AM
I'll blame them all. Sam might have fucked it but it's now the current management team's job to fix it.
Exactly. As previous explained, the lad should be the encapsulation of how we can nurture promising talent at Everton. If he leaves its a hammer blow into our reputation to do that and the current management team would have to shoulder some blame.
I get a lot of shit on this forum for calling things how I see it but the impression I get is Lookman does not feel valued or nurtured in an environment to develop him as a player and that is worrying.
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 08:04:22 AM
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 08:11:25 AM
Agree with all that Tommy
Cheers.
But (respectfully) lets keep it at Tom,Thomas or (as Celtic/Tims call me) 'Tam'. haha
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 08:13:15 AM
Cheers.Apologies mate, will do
But (respectfully) lets keep it at Tom,Thomas or (as Celtic/Tims call me) 'Tam'. haha
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 08:15:43 AM
Apologies mate, will do
No problem.
Anyway to continue the discussion, do you think the AL issue is simply a case that another/foreign league suits him better? Maybe he realises that.
Or does it run deeper to the points I put forward?
Is he more of a traditional winger or modern type of forward? (see Sterling/Sane at City being the most reasonable examples)
Post by: Jamokachi on July 04, 2018, 08:18:43 AM
This is probably a good natured warning, but it won't surprise you to hear I always speak my mind and I've never been afraid to air an opinion and stick to it even if its unpopular.
It is good natured mate, I'm not having a pop. It's the repetitive nature of the jibe at fans liking workhorses over exciting, talented players that's going to get people's backs up. And in all honesty mate, I think it's a very outdated argument from you. I don't know how frequently you visit this site these days (not seen you around for a while), but the attitude you attribute to Evertonians certainly isn't reflective of this community.
I'll respond to the rest of your post when I'm not at work haha!
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 08:25:25 AM
No problem.I think he’ll be just fine here with game time below his belt, as you have pointed out Mane and Sterling and Sane would be good comparisons and I’d like to think we have the coaches to bring that out of him.
Anyway to continue the discussion, do you think the AL issue is simply a case that another/foreign league suits him better? Maybe he realises that.
Or does it run deeper to the points I put forward?
Is he more of a traditional winger or modern type of forward? (see Sterling/Sane at City being the most reasonable examples)
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 08:27:19 AM
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 08:27:33 AM
I'll respond to the rest of your post when I'm not at work haha!
First part, fair enough. Basically, I've been focusing on my degree/life. Football took a back seat.
The other points I made I thought where thoughtful/fair. Althouh as you may be implying, how I word what comes before them makes it easy for them to be ignored.
The completely basic argument I have consistently made is if we want to be top 6 we cant accommodate certain players we like (Davies) and must keep certain players who can be seen as luxury players (Lookman) but as long as they combine the lavish and ugly side of football properly they can feel appreciated here. (People like Bolasie who cant do this I'd be the first to sell on). We need to stick to a philosophy but also make some upgrades.
Thats what I mean in the most non-antagonistic fashion I am able to present my point. If we where sitting in a pub having a discussion about Everton, thats how I'd detail everything. Like yourself, I get frustrated at anything Everton and I really just want us to win things and be able to enjoy the football we play. Some players at Everton have never been naturals but I've also adored them still such as Carsley and Cahill and Dave Watson whilst your Kanchelskis/Arteta's/Stones are the 'luxury' side to our philosophy who we did/didnt manage to accommodate for various reasons.
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 08:40:53 AM
Thomas I haven’t seen much of you on here, can I just ask, are you an Evertonian or someone who supports another team but just likes to jump on and talk all things football?
Both. What I mean by that is I try look at things with my heart but also my head.
The Evertonian in me tells me I want Lookman to stay. The football observer in me tells me he doesn't feel appreciated or able to develop here or in the EPL, so will decide to play elsewhere in another league. Somewhere like Marseille playing alongside Payet I think would suit him and if I where his agent I'd be telling him that would be as attractive an option as Leipzig.
Having said that if he was that good at Leipzig then Dortmund or Bayern would want him. So its all swings and roundabouts.
Fundamentally I always try to call out bullshit as honestly as I can whenever I (feel/IMHO) see it. Some may/may not like it. Thats fine. But I love talking about football and try to do so in a non/bipartisan way.
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 08:45:00 AM
Both. What I mean by that is I try look at things with my heart but also my head.Cool, I think you make some valid points, keep them coming
The Evertonian in me tells me I want Lookman to stay. The football observer in me tells me he doesn't feel appreciated or able to develop here or in the EPL, so will decide to play elsewhere in another league. Somewhere like Marseille playing alongside Payet I think would suit him and if I where his agent I'd be telling him that would be as attractive an option as Leipzig.
Having said that if he was that good at Leipzig then Dortmund or Bayern would want him. So its all swings and roundabouts.
Fundamentally I always try to call out bullshit as honestly as I can whenever I (feel/IMHO) see it. Some may/may not like it. Thats fine. But I love talking about football and try to do so in a non/bipartisan way.
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 08:47:23 AM
Cool, I think you make some valid points, keep them coming
Perhaps as @Jamokachi (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=9) has implied I have fallen into the same trap Dame Barbara Cartland did of writing the same story repackaged numerous times. But I think there is some sense in there.
Anyway to get back on topic, is Lookman better on the left or the right?
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
. Tierney and Lookman bombing up and down the left and Coleman and Lozano on the right has a nice ring to it.
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 09:05:55 AM
Left I think, seems to have the knack to cut inside onto his stronger foot and create havoc, I think that’s where RBL used him with the most threat. Need to leave that right side clear for Lozano
Not seen this Lozano, I'll check in a minute. He's getting punted about like Joao Moutinho and we all know how that disintegrated.
Post by: brap2 on July 04, 2018, 02:04:32 PM
Cenk is good mate.
I just mean if Man Utd had a list of players there scouts had compiled, he'd be on the b list.
We need to do what Man City did which is (somehow) punch up into the A List. I'd love Di Maria at Everton but its not happening.
For now we need to keep and appreciate players like Lookman. The main reason he is leaving is he doesn't feel wanted/appreciated here, right? @Jamokachi (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=9)
Goodness me, he was hardly ever on the pitch how on earth did you hear so much abuse?
Also, di maria? Lmao talk about luddites.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on July 04, 2018, 02:07:38 PM
Goodness me, he was hardly ever on the pitch how on earth did you hear so much abuse?
Also, di maria? Lmao talk about luddites.
Shit fan you mate. Bet you booed Ross Barkley and (insert another complete shithouse assumption here) and not appreciated real football like Thomas the oracle.
Post by: Ramjam on July 04, 2018, 02:21:19 PM
Shit fan you mate. Bet you booed Ross Barkley and (insert another complete shithouse assumption here) and not appreciated real football like Thomas the oracle.Thomas has copped a lot of abuse on here which I think is a little unwarranted, he’s clearly an educated bloke with strong views on what’s needed at Everton in order to take the club forward, not everyone has the same opinion and that’s fine as the forum is designed to get people with alternative prospectives to engage in meaningful dialogue, he shouldn’t be be abused because of his beliefs. I for one don’t agree with all of his opinions, for eg Tom Davies is a young player who I think needs more chances working with a more productive coach before binning him off to West Ham, but Thomas is no mug and shouldn’t be treated as one.
Post by: TheRam on July 04, 2018, 02:52:35 PM
Some of it has to be laid at some of our our fans with their absolute philistine/almost luddite type attitude to football.
The amount of shit i heard against Lookman at Goodison last year was bang out of order whilst Tom Davies had shite games and got half the flak.
To be fair people have realised Lookman is a good player and that is a good thing but it annoys me how we pertain to appreciate quality players at Everton and its all about the 'School of Science' and playing attacking/attractive football. I know at Everton we like our players to be edgy but we still seem to have a prejudice towards players who try to play a bit such as ball playing defenders like John Stones and midfielders like Barkley and give Lookman a hard time. Your not going to be the School of Science without those players and definetly not with Tom Davies, Ashley Williams or even (both of whom i actually rate) DCL or Cenk Tosun in the team.
Ademola definetly has the potential to play in a front 3. He is a great mix of a winger and a forward and could possibly be our Raheem Sterling. Lookman and Walcott playing together is a mouth watering prospect.
Mate, Tom Davies couldn’t complete a simple five yard pass without getting the moans and groans.
And I hardly recall lookman even getting games at Goodison last season so you’re just making this up.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on July 04, 2018, 03:57:40 PM
Thomas has copped a lot of abuse on here which I think is a little unwarranted, he’s clearly an educated bloke with strong views on what’s needed at Everton in order to take the club forward, not everyone has the same opinion and that’s fine as the forum is designed to get people with alternative prospectives to engage in meaningful dialogue, he shouldn’t be be abused because of his beliefs. I for one don’t agree with all of his opinions, for eg Tom Davies is a young player who I think needs more chances working with a more productive coach before binning him off to West Ham, but Thomas is no mug and shouldn’t be treated as one.
Nah mate he’s just a piece of work with his lack of communications skills only on par with his lack of manners forced on him as a child. He speaks to people like they’re pieces of shit and he’s not arsed, so they take the piss out of him and he reports them.
I also think what you and I deem as educated are poles apart.
Post by: Thomas on July 04, 2018, 07:55:29 PM
Nah mate he's just a piece of work with his lack of communications skills only on par with his lack of manners forced on him as a child. He speaks to people like they're pieces of shit and he's not arsed, so they take the piss out of him and he reports them.That's ironic. You act like a complete smug self righteous dickhead on here most of the time who cant handel controversial opinions and speak to me shocking with a disableist anti mental health type tone.
I also think what you and I deem as educated are poles apart.
You then have the actual gall to question my parents/manners. Both my jobs are working with the public so they are fine thanks.
The fact is you wont engage with anyone who disagrees with you on any issue and your a complete fucking bully.
Now unless you want to discuss Everton/Lookman or consider that mayve you might be out of order....ignore me. You "piece of work". Disableist idiot.
Post by: Brownie on July 04, 2018, 09:08:20 PM
That's ironic. You act like a complete smug self righteous dickhead on here most of the time who cant handel controversial opinions and speak to me shocking with a disableist anti mental health type tone.
You then have the actual gall to question my parents/manners. Both my jobs are working with the public so they are fine thanks.
The fact is you wont engage with anyone who disagrees with you on any issue and your a complete fucking bully.
Now unless you want to discuss Everton/Lookman or consider that mayve you might be out of order....ignore me. You "piece of work". Disableist idiot.
Not having a go but I know plenty of people who work with the public who have no manners.
Post by: brap2 on July 04, 2018, 09:50:19 PM
Thomas has copped a lot of abuse on here which I think is a little unwarranted, he’s clearly an educated bloke with strong views on what’s needed at Everton in order to take the club forward, not everyone has the same opinion and that’s fine as the forum is designed to get people with alternative prospectives to engage in meaningful dialogue, he shouldn’t be be abused because of his beliefs. I for one don’t agree with all of his opinions, for eg Tom Davies is a young player who I think needs more chances working with a more productive coach before binning him off to West Ham, but Thomas is no mug and shouldn’t be treated as one.
He’s a nice lad and his heart is in the right place but as I say, he revels in being contrarian and has a really bad superiority complex, or at least expresses himself as if he does.
He hammers 2 or 3 points in every single thread, usually around how nobody can see what he can see, and then eventually gets off for a few months.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on July 04, 2018, 10:09:06 PM
Also it’s not the Everton fans don’t like flair players. It’s that we don’t like second rate 1s that don’t put a shift in. Don’t think anyone would object to a hazard or Ronaldinho.
Post by: Thomas on July 05, 2018, 06:40:39 AM
He's a nice lad and his heart is in the right place but as I say, he revels in being contrarian and has a really bad superiority complex, or at least expresses himself as if he does.I made some fair points in this topic about what it said about our club developing youth if AL left, that as usual because of the narrow mindedness, ignorance and intolerance of some on here got peoples backs up because it was said in plain terms.
He hammers 2 or 3 points in every single thread, usually around how nobody can see what he can see, and then eventually gets off for a few months.
I could also say I can obviously see a teacher who condones bullying and says sod all when someone is being ostracized simply for having an opinion.
Alls I ask is for other posters to play the ball not the man. @jamokachi being a fair example of this who doesn't always agree with me but it's no big deal. It's quite ironic that the ones who snipe actually have no opinion on anything. They consistently get away with making disableist comments.
Do you or the mods find a "piece of work" or criticising someones parents acceptable on a football forum? In a world where we are trying to be more inclusive or people from all walks of like particularly those with mental/autism spectrum disorder, it's not only disableist to use the term a "piece of work" but the comments of a downright nasty "piece of work"
Would he say that to my face? No. Little keyboard warrior. Then others who support the same club as me say nothing against it.
I have never had any issues with Celtic fans forums or supporters. Ever. In fact the complete reverse. But some of our fans dont like being questioned or debate and just resort to being outright nasty.
It's an important time for our football club. A time for different opinions/ideas and difficult questions and welcoming everybody. Not ostacizing them.
Post by: Thomas on July 05, 2018, 06:43:25 AM
Thomas has copped a lot of abuse on here which I think is a little unwarranted, he's clearly an educated bloke with strong views on what's needed at Everton in order to take the club forward, not everyone has the same opinion and that's fine as the forum is designed to get people with alternative prospectives to engage in meaningful dialogue, he shouldn't be be abused because of his beliefs. I for one don't agree with all of his opinions, for eg Tom Davies is a young player who I think needs more chances working with a more productive coach before binning him off to West Ham, but Thomas is no mug and shouldn't be treated as one.Alls I ask is people play the ball, not the man.
As I have said before some of the stuff that is allowed to happen on this forum would not be tolerated on Celtic forums. On there you can disagree or speak plainly without idiots making comments about the quality of your parenting or general abuse.
If Lookman leaves that's a bad vibe for future young players considering joining Everton.
Post by: Simon Paul on July 05, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
Alls I ask is people play the ball, not the man.Yeah but sectarian shite and anti English stuff is fair game so it's swings and roundabouts really isn't it
As I have said before some of the stuff that is allowed to happen on this forum would not be tolerated on Celtic forums. On there you can disagree or speak plainly without idiots making comments about the quality of your parenting or general abuse.
If Lookman leaves that's a bad vibe for future young players considering joining Everton.
Fuck Celtic
Post by: Thomas on July 05, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
Yeah but sectarian shite and anti English stuff is fair game so it's swings and roundabouts really isn't itWhat has my parents and anti mental health disableist abuse got to do with football?
Fuck Celtic
Are you ok with that?
Post by: Bally on July 05, 2018, 03:40:56 PM
What has my parents and anti mental health disableist abuse got to do with football?The manners comment I agree with and as you well know we deal with everything in private.
Are you ok with that?
Now the latter part, care to point out where because I can't see it at all.
Post by: Thomas on July 05, 2018, 04:08:25 PM
The manners comment I agree with and as you well know we deal with everything in private.
Now the latter part, care to point out where because I can't see it at all.
Why do you agree with that? Who is he to question my mothers parenting? Which was first class. What at all has that to do with anything?
The latter part was the 'piece of work' comment which is the most clear example of disableist anti mental health type bile I've ever seen. He's trying to fucking 'other' or ostracize someone or imply someone is losing their sanity. Which is completely ludicrous.
He's a fucking bully.
But time after time after time you guys duck this question.
What does the guy post about Everton? He just throws insults around and is a wind up merchant. He criticizes others for their opinions yet has none of his own.
@Bally (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=19) have a look at the Macpherson Complex. If someone feels like they are being discriminated against or bullied or ostracized, its usually true. I've consistently maintained this and every moderator has ignored it. Probably because its the easy thing to do.
Just sort it out. I've been on this forum 13 years and I dont expect ludicrous posts or abusive comments to be thrown around towards any of my parents or it implied I'm a lunatic.
Post by: Thomas on July 05, 2018, 04:12:23 PM
He is a bully. What he said is out of order. I'm as entitled as anyone else to come on here, talk about Everton without absolute bile being thrown at me and moderators condoning bullying. @Bally (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=19)
This all started from me discussing Lookman leaving Everton and what that said about our youth set up. Some questioned that like @Jamokachi (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=9) but we had no issues discussing that until the forum bully came along.
Post by: Thomas on July 05, 2018, 04:17:00 PM
Yeah but sectarian shite and anti English stuff is fair game so it's swings and roundabouts really isn't it
Fuck Celtic
The forum has clear rules and guidelines around abuse and sectarianism. They stick to them.
This place doesn't. It lets bullies 'other' people and allows posters to criticize someone's parents in a discussion on an Everton player.
Call yourself Evertonian's? I'd never let another supporter be treated like this. Ever.
Am I taking this personally? Too right I am because I'm not standing for being belittled for trying to articulate how i feel about Everton FC. Everyone else gets the same courtesy and so should I.
Post by: Bally on July 05, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
Why do you agree with that? Who is he to question my mothers parenting? Which was first class. What at all has that to do with anything?Classic case of you fuckin mis-reading something, I agree with what you put, questions towards your parents and your upbringing are not needed.
The latter part was the 'piece of work' comment which is the most clear example of disableist anti mental health type bile I've ever seen. He's trying to fucking 'other' or ostracize someone or imply someone is losing their sanity. Which is completely ludicrous.
He's a fucking bully.
But time after time after time you guys duck this question.
What does the guy post about Everton? He just throws insults around and is a wind up merchant. He criticizes others for their opinions yet has none of his own.
@Bally (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=19) have a look at the Macpherson Complex. If someone feels like they are being discriminated against or bullied or ostracized, its usually true. I've consistently maintained this and every moderator has ignored it. Probably because its the easy thing to do.
Just sort it out. I've been on this forum 13 years and I dont expect ludicrous posts or abusive comments to be thrown around towards any of my parents or it implied I'm a lunatic.
There is not a case for any disablist or anti mental health here, in no way shape or form, if I for one minute thought you or anyone was been bullied I would deal with it accordingly.
Once again you have called moderators out for ignoring you, the simplest solution if you don't like the way it's run is to press the little red Cross in the top right corner of your screen.
You can fuck right off thinking any of take the easy option too, that's just fucking cheeky and very judgemental.
Post by: Macca77 on July 05, 2018, 04:24:00 PM
In my opinion we need to do everything we can to make sure Lookman stays, make him feel wanted, tell him he's a very important part of our future plans, offer him new deal, give him a cuddle
Post by: Audrey Horne on July 05, 2018, 04:30:29 PM
Post by: everton1952 on July 05, 2018, 05:38:51 PM
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on July 05, 2018, 05:43:04 PM
England are in the Quarters on Saturday.
Everton will have signed Tierney, Lozano, Mina and Bensebainey SOON! WATCH THIS SPACE.
Lookman is back - which may mean we wont have to play Bolasie :D
The sun is shining!
:D
Post by: brap2 on July 05, 2018, 05:47:38 PM
What does "disableist " mean, or "disablist " ? My English is usually pretty good and I have never come across this term before. It is not in my dictionary so is it some sort of modern invention, new in vogue expression or whatever? Or, in plain anglo-saxon, what the fuck does it mean?
Like, being mean to disabled people I guess
Post by: Simon Paul on July 05, 2018, 05:51:50 PM
The forum has clear rules and guidelines around abuse and sectarianism. They stick to them."everyone" gets treated how they get treated on here I'm afraid Thomas. You are no different in how you are treated. If someone else posted what you posted they would get the same treatment.
This place doesn't. It lets bullies 'other' people and allows posters to criticize someone's parents in a discussion on an Everton player.
Call yourself Evertonian's? I'd never let another supporter be treated like this. Ever.
Am I taking this personally? Too right I am because I'm not standing for being belittled for trying to articulate how i feel about Everton FC. Everyone else gets the same courtesy and so should I.
Maybe not EXACTLY the same because people have different ways of seeing different personas on the Internet. But they'd get told it was bollocks, most likely.
The "problem" you have is that you have grown up online. Literally. You went from mjd-teens to adulthood in public. From shadow boxing videos to dancing on mantle pieces. Youve done it all online.
Reputations and opinions of people stick. That's part of life. Unfortunately your reputation is pretty much legendary among those who have been online for more than a few years. I dare say I have people who have a problem with me based on stuff I did years ago too. That's just life though. We get on with it.
I dare say you remember how personally you took it when people criticised the work you did on the Everton site you ran. And rightly so, you put the work in and it upsets you when people criticise it. That works on a forum too.
People who post here invest time and energy and they are part of a community that, while it's close knit at times, does welcome people into it all the time. But when someone comes along and criticises what they are part of then they take it personally and will hit back.
As moderators we rarely have to intervene and that is not because we are lazy (I am like) but because things tend to sort themselves out quickly and civilly. That's the strength of what people have created on this site. When we do, we do though. But as has always been the answer - and you know this from the years you've spent on here - if people don't like it then there is a logout button.
Post by: Mick 1995 on July 05, 2018, 05:58:59 PM
What does "disableist " mean, or "disablist " ? My English is usually pretty good and I have never come across this term before. It is not in my dictionary so is it some sort of modern invention, new in vogue expression or whatever? Or, in plain anglo-saxon, what the fuck does it mean?
Same root as ageist, racist and sexist. The 'ist' denotes you are prejudiced against the thing that sits in front of it.
Disablism is a thing. It's not something that has happened in here like, but it is deffo a thing.
Post by: Trowel on July 05, 2018, 06:58:13 PM
These thread messes have now got me thinking Lookman has been loaned out to Celtic.
Post by: blue slug on July 05, 2018, 07:08:54 PM
Can we take this to private message/another forum please.
These thread messes have now got me thinking Lookman has been loaned out to Celtic.
Should put up a thread solely for people to have ago at each other then threads wouldn't expand into chaos lol
Post by: Free Agent on July 05, 2018, 07:10:30 PM
Can we take this to private message/another forum please.
These thread messes have now got me thinking Lookman has been loaned out to Celtic.
lolol
And I thought we loaned someone from a Celtic forum
Post by: everton1952 on July 05, 2018, 07:44:00 PM
Same root as ageist, racist and sexist. The 'ist' denotes you are prejudiced against the thing that sits in front of it.That is not correct. A socialist or capitalist for example are not prejudiced against either. I suggest that the expression used by Thomas is not a word at all but a meaningless creation. I do not think Thomas is in any way illiterate but surely he is skilled enough with words to make better use of the English language to make his view plain. Opinions expressed on public platforms lose credibility if people write incomprehensively.
Disablism is a thing. It's not something that has happened in here like, but it is deffo a thing.
Post by: Gash on July 05, 2018, 07:48:49 PM