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Title: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Everton News on July 11, 2018, 08:24:44 PM
Is VAR ruining the game?

The impact of VAR on football will continue to be a question that divides opinion amongst the fans.

Source: Is VAR ruining the game? (https://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2018/07/is-var-ruining-the-game/)
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Bluedylan on July 11, 2018, 08:32:05 PM
No, it's been brilliant. They just need to apply it better, and work out the necessary protocols around it (which trialling it properly before the WC would've achieved).

I read or heard somewhere that during the WC, VAR has improved the amount of correct decision making by the officials from 93% to 95%. I'll try to find where I saw that, so I can post it.

EDIT: It's not in this WC, it's the pre-WC trials that were done, but it took the correct decision percentage from 93% to 98.8% - http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11295403/has-var-worked-statistics-behind-worldwide-use-show-positives
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Lxxx on July 11, 2018, 08:37:33 PM
I don't think it divides fans at all. I think it's been a success. The only few issues we had were instances where the video referees didn't bother to indicate to the referee that he needed to view it to give his opinion. They just outsourced one decision maker for another and they got in wrong a few times, instead of utilising the option of getting the ref over to give his opinion. Apart from that it makes the game a lot fairer with a lot more correct decisions.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blue slug on July 11, 2018, 08:39:54 PM
I like VAR just needs to be utilised better and more coherently I think
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Macca77 on July 11, 2018, 08:45:16 PM
It's not getting used in the Prem this season is it?
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Bingham Boy on July 11, 2018, 08:47:11 PM
It'll be an excuse to find fault against goals scored against Liverpool, and as a means to find any contact on a Liverpool player in order to give them a penalty.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: TheTone on July 11, 2018, 08:48:29 PM
They are on the right track but the process needs more efficiency
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Mick 1995 on July 11, 2018, 08:55:25 PM
Yeah, there was a tendency towards suggestion bias early on in the tournament (a few refs seemed to give a decision because they'd been asked to look at it, indicatingt hey must have msised something).
But it seems they all had a debrief and that's stopped now.

VAR doesn't make the decisions though, i just think maybe the VAR refs should utterly impartial to decisions. Simply notify the ref that there seems to have been a XXX and ask for a review. As opposed to "you missed an elbow there".
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blargins on July 11, 2018, 09:55:30 PM
I didn't like the idea at first but seeing how it's worked in this world cup, I'm on board with it.

It replaces controversy with anticipation of what's going to be the decision.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: bluenuck on July 11, 2018, 10:02:55 PM
It's already been mentioned. The application of it is what needs fixing. Don't know why it takes so long and don't know how the ref makes the decision whether to use it or not?
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Simon Paul on July 11, 2018, 10:06:14 PM
It's already been mentioned. The application of it is what needs fixing. Don't know why it takes so long and don't know how the ref makes the decision whether to use it or not?

he's the man on the pitch, he has to have final say or he loses credibility.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: bluenuck on July 11, 2018, 11:37:12 PM
he's the man on the pitch, he has to have final say or he loses credibility.

That's fine.

But I think the higher ups need to put in place what can be challenged and what can't. Makes it much easier for the ref.

In the NHL and MLB there are only certain plays that you can challenge with the replay system. So you don't have this sort of chaos out on the field when something happens like we do with VAR.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Jamokachi on July 12, 2018, 08:08:11 AM
Based on the A League it's fucking atrocious and should be killed with fire.

Based on the WC, it has potential to work.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: AllyBlue14 on July 12, 2018, 05:59:21 PM
Anything that helps get the right decision is worth sticking with. It's one thing being beaten fairly and squarely, but losing to incompetent refereeing hurts even more - there are so many incidents in the derbies alone that would've been overturned with VAR. Unless the panel is Danny Murphy, Jamie Redknapp and Brian Barwick.

It'd also be nice to see it used to stamp out the general petulance: diving, rolling around in faux agony, time-wasting, bitch-slapping etc. and the penalties awarded for those more severe. I also like the rugby way of stopping the clock if there's a pause in play; that way, there's no question over how long should be added on at the end.

Work in progress, but definitely a positive addition.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on July 12, 2018, 06:22:29 PM
VAR is the way forward, and after a few years of tweaks it will be bang on. But one thing that pisses me off more than a very, very small percent of bad refereeing decisions, is players acting that they have an injury, cramp, and especially holding their heads - even moreso when you see the replays and a player is hit in the arm, and he holds his head. I'd like to see another lead from Rugby, and allow the "injured" player as long as he wants to roll around on the ground, but permit a couple of medics from their team to come on and deal with them - even if in the penalty box or wherever. It would be the same for both sides, but would stop a lot of play acting, and allow the game to carry on without the ref having to stop the flow of the game.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Dr. Sponge on July 12, 2018, 06:36:21 PM
Absolutely the right way to go for the sport, it’s just in its infancy and it will get better.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Cods on July 12, 2018, 07:17:39 PM
Agree that it is helpful for the most part, but it just seems that anything even remotely appearing like contact in the box will be reviewed and penalty given, perhaps out of context, where we’re used to a little bit of common sense/feel being applied.  It will become a refined game of penalties rather than open play scoring which I don’t think is good for the game.
The fact that they even reviewed the Kompany incident the other night shows it’s just a bit too ‘ticky-touchwood’
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blue1948 on July 12, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
If all the bad decisions in derbies were taken away we would have no "bitter " in their nickname for us .For that alone I am in.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: dunkster on July 12, 2018, 08:36:43 PM
VAR is the way forward, and after a few years of tweaks it will be bang on. But one thing that pisses me off more than a very, very small percent of bad refereeing decisions, is players acting that they have an injury, cramp, and especially holding their heads - even moreso when you see the replays and a player is hit in the arm, and he holds his head. I'd like to see another lead from Rugby, and allow the "injured" player as long as he wants to roll around on the ground, but permit a couple of medics from their team to come on and deal with them - even if in the penalty box or wherever. It would be the same for both sides, but would stop a lot of play acting, and allow the game to carry on without the ref having to stop the flow of the game.

My dad had a pretty decent idea involving it being mandatory to be stretchered off or helped off the pitch and have a minimum  assessment time (maybe 3 - 5 minutes)for any player who goes to ground claiming injury, if the ref deems it necessary to stop the game.
So basically a player who tries to stop a game and waste time by feigning injury will  leave his team a player short for a few minutes.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blargins on July 12, 2018, 08:51:33 PM
My dad had a pretty decent idea involving it being mandatory to be stretchered off or helped off the pitch and have a minimum  assessment time (maybe 3 - 5 minutes)for any player who goes to ground claiming injury, if the ref deems it necessary to stop the game.
So basically a player who tries to stop a game and waste time by feigning injury will  leave his team a player short for a few minutes.

Wish that was in force yesterday. England would have won that match easily.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on July 12, 2018, 08:55:47 PM
I got really fucked off with players and Managers making imaginary squares all the time though .
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blue1948 on July 12, 2018, 09:57:54 PM
I got really fucked off with players and Managers making imaginary squares all the time though .
It is like having sex with imaginary partners -you get used to it !
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on July 12, 2018, 10:12:11 PM
It is like having sex with imaginary partners -you get used to it !

Not got that desperate yet mate but I did get fucked off at the squares and yes it will become just as annoyingly accepted as waving imaginary cards .
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Major Clanger on July 12, 2018, 10:23:07 PM
Sure, eventually we'll get used to it.

It won't improve a thing, it won't get rid of controversies, it will however suck the joy out of celebrating a goal, like it's done with rugby.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on July 12, 2018, 10:50:36 PM
One possibility for the 'square drawing' is for each side to have 3 (?) reviews (like tennis) and any player or manager making that sign gets their wish in the shape of a review. With only 3 reviews any histrionic behaviour by players would soon be stamped down on by team mates when they have run out of reviews in the first 10 min.
Slightly more seriously I do have doubts about its accuracy and reliability when reviewing some contact - most notably arm/hand to opponents head. Football is a contact game but I think slow motion replays cannot show the degree of force and I think players cottoned on to that quite early hence all the rolling round. That is weighted too much in favour of the cheats and totally accidental and innocent contact looks much more deliberate and heavy  than it often was. There needs to be an immediate yellow if the review shows that. Bit like diving a few will be hard done to initially but yellow cards have reduced diving albeit at a cost to the few who genuinely fell over.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: smellybum on July 12, 2018, 10:51:33 PM
I think it will be become a great thing in time. As said before needs to be somebody says have a look at this ref and the ref takes a look. Maybe give teams 1 challenge as well.
I would also like to see the goaline thingy extended to the full pitch. A few times the ball was clearly out of play last night.

Would like to see the clock stop everyone the ball goes out of play. 90 full mins of game time. Will stop needless time wasting.
Last as has been mentioned and I really don't know why this is not done. Medics treat players and let the game continue. Will stop the play acting overnight. obviously for a blantently serious injury then yes stop.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on July 12, 2018, 11:10:11 PM
Realistically it would be dangerous to have someone being treated in the penalty area with the defending team under pressure and centres coming in. Just can't be done.
In addition it penalises players genuinely needing treatment and benefits the offending team as it presents them with an advantage for however many minutes the injured player is off the pitch.
This is something managers and players need to address as it is they who do it and encourage it and accept it as 'part of the game'. In addition what do we fans do about it? Scream blue murder if one of ours goes down and accuse the opposition of cheating if one of theirs is down. So we encourage it as well.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Ball8y on July 16, 2018, 01:17:22 AM
VAR has not ruined the game - Sky did that in 1993
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on July 16, 2018, 01:32:21 AM
VAR has not ruined the game - Sky did that in 1993
Why is Sky so successful?

Because we all watch it.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Paddockoldie on July 16, 2018, 02:12:40 AM
It shafted Croatia today. Never a pen.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on July 16, 2018, 02:13:58 AM
I just don't see the need for it. I think one of the reasons football is so successful is because it has the right balance between the best teams winning and the occasional upset. In time, and when the wrinkles are ironed out, VAR will reinforce the advantages the better teams have and upsets will be far less frequent.
It would be interesting to see how many non-match going fans are in favour of VAR compared to fans that prefer their football live.
The only thing I like about VAR is that it wasn't invented before the Wimbledon game on the last day of the '94 season.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blue slug on July 16, 2018, 02:14:01 AM
Is var being used in any leagues this season
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: gizzblue on July 16, 2018, 02:35:32 AM
If the final proved anything about VAR today it's that despite video evidence  ....and despite not being sure (going back to check one last time made it look worse ref) the idiot referee can still fuck up .
Also why couldn't it be used to card the little diving prick Greizmann for simulation ....they will use it imho to keep the media darlings in the top six untouchable .

It has potential ...but has to be used correctly ..and fairly for both sides ....I've said it before allowing teams say 2 var challenges per half would work better than for random shit only they see fit to act on again like the Greizmann mark spitz esq dive today or Kanes two obvious penalty shouts in the group's ....just for instance .

Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: velimski on July 16, 2018, 02:37:32 AM
Is var being used in any leagues this season

Season after I think.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blue slug on July 16, 2018, 02:38:43 AM
Season after I think.

Certain leagues like
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: velimski on July 16, 2018, 02:41:01 AM
Certain leagues like

Sure. Doubt it will go below the premier league but I don't know.

It was already being used in some European leagues last season.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Cereal Killer on July 16, 2018, 03:21:27 AM
No - it's reducing the number of errors and cutting out some of the stupid shit, especially defending of set pieces

Could it be improved, yes
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: bluenuck on July 16, 2018, 03:36:06 AM
It has potential ...but has to be used correctly ..and fairly for both sides ....I've said it before allowing teams say 2 var challenges per half would work better than for random shit only they see fit to act on again like the Greizmann mark spitz esq dive today or Kanes two obvious penalty shouts in the group's ....just for instance .

This.

It can't be up to the ref when and what to use it for. There has to be clear plays that the ref is only allowed to go back to it, or give the teams 1-2 or 3 challenges on any play. Allowing the ref to just make the decision on the fly isn't going to work. Wait till the derby at anfield and the swarm of red around the him while 50k+ are screaming at him. It ain't going to end well for us or any non big 6 teams.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blueToffee on July 16, 2018, 03:50:28 AM
Let’s face it, the 50/50 decisions generally go to the bigger teams as it is and things do not balance out over the season, it’s a myth that among other things pundits and fans lean on to excuse a close decision going to the bigger club.

Personally, I think it can only help create a more level playing field than we have right now.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Cereal Killer on July 16, 2018, 03:50:46 AM
People need to let the Griezman thing go....

1. If there was no VAR, the ref still gave a free kick, and France still would've scored, VAR made no difference to the situation

2. They aren't psychic, if they used VAR on that before it was taken, where do you draw the line? You'd end up using VAR on every 50-50, every free kick the ref gives. Croatia had a shot, it deflected off Varane but a goal kick was given, should've used VAR? You'd be reviewing something every 5mims and the game would be a farce

3. As they scored from it, do they retrospectively go back and check it was a free kick? Course not
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Heisenberg on July 16, 2018, 04:11:15 AM
Its a no for VAR from me. It's going to get to the point were you cant celebrate goals properly because you're waiting for some form of check/analysis. The best moments in football are them last gasp 'limbs' winners, all about being in the moment. I get the points for pro VAR but for me, personally the negatives outweigh the positives
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Ross on July 16, 2018, 05:13:52 AM
VAR was supposed to clear up all obvious wrong doings and injustices at the highest level, yet today and many times before in this tournament,  there’s all kind of talking points and possible injustice after it’s been used.

It’ll always boil down to human error or interpretation so for me it’s better to have one man in charge who’s in the thick of the action and Jonny on the spot.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blargins on July 16, 2018, 05:23:41 AM
I was against VAR before the tournament, but I think it has certainly helped. I don't think as many of the lesser nations would have got through, some of the VAR decisions certainly helped in the early games with penalties etc which probably wouldn't have been awarded.

It's still in its infancy and I agree with @Cereal Killer (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4774) above that people need to let go of the Greizzman incident. It clearly needs more time to bed in and perhaps 3 calls per team per game would be a good idea as well to limit using it all the time, although it wasn't used greatly in the tournament.

I think also the VAR technicians should have a certain time to communicate a key incident to the ref if he missed it like a clear penalty, a dive or whatnot for the ref to take a look at.

I'd like to see it in the prem and I think it would help the rest of the league more.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: TheRam on July 16, 2018, 05:30:25 AM
VAR wasn’t the issue today.

It was the ref and how he interpreted the laws of the game regarding the handball.

Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: Ross on July 16, 2018, 05:40:51 AM
“Clear and obvious error”
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: blueToffee on July 16, 2018, 06:42:03 AM
Its a no for VAR from me. It's going to get to the point were you cant celebrate goals properly because you're waiting for some form of check/analysis. The best moments in football are them last gasp 'limbs' winners, all about being in the moment. I get the points for pro VAR but for me, personally the negatives outweigh the positives

Were any of the goals at the World Cup not celebrated? I don’t remember Kane’s last minute winner against Tunisia being an issue, and for a tournament with so many late goals I don’t remember any set of fans less jubilant.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: bluenuck on July 16, 2018, 07:51:46 AM
Its a no for VAR from me. It's going to get to the point were you cant celebrate goals properly because you're waiting for some form of check/analysis. The best moments in football are them last gasp 'limbs' winners, all about being in the moment. I get the points for pro VAR but for me, personally the negatives outweigh the positives

You're only negative is not being able to celebrate a goal properly.

not having a pop at you, but that's a pretty weak argument.
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: stirlingblue on July 16, 2018, 03:28:38 PM
Given the limited trials before the World Cup I'd say overall it was about as good as can be accepted.

I still don't think there is enough consistency on when it's used.

Griezemann's dive to win the free kick leading to France's first goal yesterday is a good example, why wasn't that picked up?
Title: Re: [News]Is VAR ruining the game?
Post by: di_guyo on July 16, 2018, 03:59:03 PM
I think it's a step in the right direction, but I'm still not happy with it at present. There's too much subjectivity there. While it makes the decision itself more accurate, the fact that it still relies on human decision making for a decision to go to VAR makes it difficult to back. We saw it a few times in this WC, when an incident should have been reviewed and wasn't, and then plenty that were that really shouldn't have needed it. There's no consistency. I can't help but think something like Tennis' 3 challenges needs to be implement and that sits with the captain of each team.