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Author Topic: Seamus Coleman  (Read 6214 times)

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February 07, 2010, 09:25:37 PM
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Bob Sacamano

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Isnt the answer to all our shortcomings, imo its plain short sighted to think that way. Yes he has potential, yes he has a good attitude (right now) and yes I would like to see more of the lad. But does he have the mental strength to keep going after all of you people treating him like hes fucking Messi begin to start treating him like Hibbert after a run of poor games? Because the boy will have a run of poor games, its natural in the progression of the younger players.

Can we risk being literally all over the shop before Neville came back and brought some stability and calm to the back line? I feel when Jags gets back in full flow the back line will be as stable as ever then Coleman may have an opportunity to come in when it isnt so manic back there.

Say what you will about Hibbert but after years and years of getting slagged off by know nothing know it all's he never lets his head drop and continues to put in 110% every game no matter what. I fear if we put the young Coleman in and some do get on his back he might not come back from it, we have all seen it happen. Give the lad and Moyes some time to mould him into that attacking full back we all want to see. After all, Moyes hasnt got a bad record with bringing through defenders, has he.


February 07, 2010, 09:33:36 PM
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blargins

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We're not saying play him from the start necessarily, but when your right backs are having poor games as ours continually do, surely bringing the lad on as a sub to get experience and to add a different attacking threat is worth doing?
“The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something. Don’t wait for good things to happen to you. If you go out and make some good things happen, you will fill the world with hope, you will fill yourself with hope.” Barack Obama

February 07, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
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Bob Sacamano

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I understand that, but when we are losing 1-0 and we are taking alot of pressure off the other side I can see why Moyes wouldnt throw on a boy with little experience against "Maxi" (who was quiet but there is no doubting the lad has lots of quality) and risk going 2-0 down.

With Fellaini injured, i can see Neville filling in the holding roll and we cold well see Coleman get a run now


February 07, 2010, 09:40:42 PM
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blueToffee

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I have no problem with Hibbert or Neville. They've both been good servants for the club.

But here is the problem, I don't think those two are there on merit at the moment (or form in other words) and thats an issue for me.

Also you are making sweeping generalisations like its all or nothing. I don't think Coleman is Messi or anything like that but what I do think is that he deserves a chance, maybe a start but certainly he deserves 20-25 mins. I'd much rather he had the chance and make the mistake that sit doing nothing on the bench and not developing. Surely that is worse?

Every player makes mistakes, we can't magically shield them from that. You could argue he already has in the Benfica game for the first goal - albeit he was out of position, but still could have done better.

However the biggest thing for me is the upside seems greater than than the down right now. He is a far far more potent attacking threat than Hibbert and Neville currently. When we've looked so weak down the right and we are crying out for different players, players who aren't going go straight to the hoof, maybe try and beat a man. Not to mention the pace he brings.

Also (and finally) I personally think he's given the best RB performance of the season for us, and that deserves more than sitting on the bench. It doesn't mean he has to play every game, or for very long but I want him to have the chance. Why? Simply because I think he has what it takes, he isn't that young and frankly I enjoy watching him play be it running at players or tacking and harrying attackers. Conversely its painful and frustrating to watch the right side at the moment, how many times do we have to hit it long or sideways? Do you really want to watch that?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 09:58:23 PM by blueToffee »

February 07, 2010, 09:52:52 PM
Reply #4
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Blueney-tunes


Fact: Moyes is prepared to compromise the team with friendship over performance.
I have a Spurs mate who cant stand Everton but said "Who the heck is that!" (in a positive way) about Coleman! (during our last encounter)
He should be starting! Hes earned his place!

February 07, 2010, 09:57:46 PM
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.Rimbo.


Isnt the answer to all our shortcomings, imo its plain short sighted to think that way. Yes he has potential, yes he has a good attitude (right now) and yes I would like to see more of the lad. But does he have the mental strength to keep going after all of you people treating him like hes fucking Messi begin to start treating him like Hibbert after a run of poor games? Because the boy will have a run of poor games, its natural in the progression of the younger players.

Can we risk being literally all over the shop before Neville came back and brought some stability and calm to the back line? I feel when Jags gets back in full flow the back line will be as stable as ever then Coleman may have an opportunity to come in when it isnt so manic back there.

Say what you will about Hibbert but after years and years of getting slagged off by know nothing know it all's he never lets his head drop and continues to put in 110% every game no matter what. I fear if we put the young Coleman in and some do get on his back he might not come back from it, we have all seen it happen. Give the lad and Moyes some time to mould him into that attacking full back we all want to see. After all, Moyes hasnt got a bad record with bringing through defenders, has he.

You say Tony doesn't let his head drop and gives 110% every game but from what I've seen, Coleman has exactly the same, if not more, hunger and desire as the Huyton Galactico. Add to that the fact he has more ability (which he clearly does, he can hit a ball straight, so he must do), more agility, more pace etc. and this choice becomes clear.

Of course, he will have bad games, but I doubt he'd have more than Neville and Hibbert and no-one would get on his back because he's young, as opposed to Neville and Hibbert who are seasoned vets who we expect to perform to a high standard week-in, week-out. It's like people excusing Rodwell's and Gosling's shortcomings.

It's about time Moyes adopted the Wenger approach and gave some of the younger, hungrier lads a chance IMO. If Wenger gets away with playing 9/10 "youngsters" a week, we shouldn't be scared to give one a go, if he's surrounded by experienced players.

In an ideal world, I wouldn't want him starting every game, but he definitely can make the step-up in the next few years. As for Hibbert, I'm sick of people excusing his shitness because "he gives his all". I don't think any player goes on the pitch and thinks "I'm not gonna really try today". It just doesn't happen. Look around our squad, they all have fire in their bellies and a desire to win.


February 07, 2010, 10:09:17 PM
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Ridge


Isnt the answer to all our shortcomings, imo its plain short sighted to think that way. Yes he has potential, yes he has a good attitude (right now) and yes I would like to see more of the lad. But does he have the mental strength to keep going after all of you people treating him like hes fucking Messi begin to start treating him like Hibbert after a run of poor games? Because the boy will have a run of poor games, its natural in the progression of the younger players.

Can we risk being literally all over the shop before Neville came back and brought some stability and calm to the back line? I feel when Jags gets back in full flow the back line will be as stable as ever then Coleman may have an opportunity to come in when it isnt so manic back there.

Say what you will about Hibbert but after years and years of getting slagged off by know nothing know it all's he never lets his head drop and continues to put in 110% every game no matter what. I fear if we put the young Coleman in and some do get on his back he might not come back from it, we have all seen it happen. Give the lad and Moyes some time to mould him into that attacking full back we all want to see. After all, Moyes hasnt got a bad record with bringing through defenders, has he.
Totally agree, he has been paraded far too much recently as the under utilised solution to all problems. When we bring on strikers, people are criticising Moyes for not bringing Seamus on, whilst also for not being attacking enough.

He will get chances and hopefully he will progress and build on what he has done so far, but making him the sub to change a game is a lot of pressure. Especially for a young right back, coming from a lower standard of football, who has played about 150 minutes of first team football.

His performance against Spurs, was basically him coming off the bench with zero pressure and expectation.

February 07, 2010, 10:22:33 PM
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Abraders


Totally agree, he has been paraded far too much recently as the under utilised solution to all problems. When we bring on strikers, people are criticising Moyes for not bringing Seamus on, whilst also for not being attacking enough.

He will get chances and hopefully he will progress and build on what he has done so far, but making him the sub to change a game is a lot of pressure. Especially for a young right back, coming from a lower standard of football, who has played about 150 minutes of first team football.

His performance against Spurs, was basically him coming off the bench with zero pressure and expectation.
Fair play but we scored 2 after he came on against Carlisle aswell didn't we?

February 07, 2010, 10:23:13 PM
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Silas

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Yeah I agree, Coleman is a good player but he is a right back and people are after bringing him on like he is Ronaldo.  Should he be getting used more?  Definitely.  Is he going to be the answer to our problems?  Not at all.

The only thing recent games have confirmed for me is that Hibbert is a better right back than Neville (bring on the flames) but for me that is a fact.  Neville is a decent DM and if Fellaini is out might be better off back in there.  Then either Hibbert or Coleman can come in and do a job.


February 07, 2010, 10:28:02 PM
Reply #9

Flusky

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I love how people treat him like an academy player. He's only 11 months younger than Fellaini.

February 07, 2010, 10:36:15 PM
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Silas

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I love how people treat him like an academy player. He's only 11 months younger than Fellaini.

Yeah but he has had a whole lot less game time.  Fellaini was playing for the top Belgian team before he came to us (okay it's not Barca but even so), Coleman came for Sligo Rovers!  He is a top, top talent but people are slightly delirious about him.  I want to see him defend first before I get too excited.

February 07, 2010, 10:42:52 PM
Reply #11

Flusky

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Yeah but he has had a whole lot less game time.  Fellaini was playing for the top Belgian team before he came to us (okay it's not Barca but even so), Coleman came for Sligo Rovers!  He is a top, top talent but people are slightly delirious about him.  I want to see him defend first before I get too excited.

I know what you're saying but I can't fathom why we would choose Neville or Hibbert over him due to lack of experience. He needs to get it from somewhere. He seems to ooze the proverbial "attack is the best form of defence" mentality, much like Baines. I'd like to give him a run out of 5 starts or so, see how he does. We have some pretty soft games after February, let him spread his wings a bit like we did with Rodwell.

February 07, 2010, 10:49:56 PM
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Bob Sacamano

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Yeah but he has had a whole lot less game time.  Fellaini was playing for the top Belgian team before he came to us (okay it's not Barca but even so), Coleman came for Sligo Rovers!  He is a top, top talent but people are slightly delirious about him.  I want to see him defend first before I get too excited.

Erm, this!

February 07, 2010, 10:51:16 PM
Reply #13
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Silas

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I know what you're saying but I can't fathom why we would choose Neville or Hibbert over him due to lack of experience. He needs to get it from somewhere. He seems to ooze the proverbial "attack is the best form of defence" mentality, much like Baines. I'd like to give him a run out of 5 starts or so, see how he does. We have some pretty soft games after February, let him spread his wings a bit like we did with Rodwell.

Yeah I would agree with that with Hibbert on the bench if possible for if he does let us down defensively and we need to see games out.  I think we all want to see him get a go, it is this "super-sub" thing I don't understand.

February 07, 2010, 10:55:00 PM
Reply #14
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Endless, Nameless


I don't think I've ever suggested playing him as the first choice RB, but what I don't understand is Moyes' reluctance to sub him on.

Yesterday was the PERFECT oppurtunity for him. They were laying back and not attacking, as they had 10 men. Nev was playing shit and we need more creativity. Why not bring him on then?
Oh well, at least Baines is still ace.