November 22, 2017, 08:58:31 PM

Poll

Are we better off without baines when going forward?

Yes, Baines makes us to predictable
4 (6.2%)
Maybe, small sample size
4 (6.2%)
No, coincidence (team playing better)
47 (72.3%)
No, but I view his temporary absence as benificial in the long run
10 (15.4%)

Total Members Voted: 65

Author Topic: 12 Goals in three games without Baines  (Read 2953 times)

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April 30, 2012, 12:20:44 AM
Reply #15
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Batley


I notice more of an improvement when Cahill's not on the pitch.



Sad, but true. However, his goal was from very good play yesterday, albeit we were getting ready to tickle the Fulham players' bellies.

deCoubertin

April 30, 2012, 04:38:45 AM
Reply #16
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bluegrant


baines is a class act,but needs to work more on his corners and crosses.jonny morrissey and dave thomas were spot on from crosses from the left. latch got most off his 30 goals from dave thomas . :thumbsup: that season .

April 30, 2012, 04:47:31 AM
Reply #17
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123_efc


I notice more of an improvement when Cahill's not on the pitch.

Offensively yes. Cahill's defensive work from the front is out of this world though. You can see why Moyes doesn't play Barkley from the snippet on Saturday, game passes him by when he doesn't have the ball.
I miss Denis Stracqualursi


April 30, 2012, 05:11:44 AM
Reply #18
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Cash


Psycologically when Baines is in the side all players tend to lean over to the left in our play because they know he is comfortable on the ball. We use him as an outlet far too much and teams know this. However we are not a one man team proved by recent games. The problem with Baines in the side is that we all believe along with the players that we need to go thru Baines to get a decent attack. Why the fck can't Hibbert swing balls like he did at old Trafford ever week
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April 30, 2012, 12:53:38 PM
Reply #19
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Bily No Pace


These things can happen--other players stepping up to compensate for the loss of creativity of a key player. But they tend not to happen for long.

Selling Baines would be utter madness. Lock and delete this thread before Robert Elstone or BK sees this thread and starts rubbing his chin.

That record still playing? Thought you were told to change it?
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April 30, 2012, 02:35:07 PM
Reply #20
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montanatoffeefan


That record still playing? Thought you were told to change it?

By who, Bill? You?

Have you been appointed the censor and Torquemada of NSNO--out to stamp out any views you and your luvvie love can't cope with?

Perhaps you could add your official NSNO's Official Censor position to your avatar. So we know you and not Si are in charge around here.
Everton forever.


April 30, 2012, 05:08:17 PM
Reply #21
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dunkster


If we had a decent right hand side then the opposition wouldn't be able to overload on their right hand side leaving baines with more freedom. he is a victim of his own ability.
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April 30, 2012, 06:59:22 PM
Reply #22
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Toddacelli


If we had a decent right hand side then the opposition wouldn't be able to overload on their right hand side leaving baines with more freedom. he is a victim of his own ability.

I must admit, I've seen games where I've thought it obvious that contending with Baines was part of the opposition's gameplan. Maybe not so much "Stop Baines - Stop Everton" but maybe a bit "Stop Baines - Hinder Everton's most creative and dangerous outlet"
    

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April 30, 2012, 07:03:02 PM
Reply #23
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blargins

NSNO Subscriber
I think if Baines had been playing, we'd have scored 24 goals!
"All the adversity I've had in my life, all my troubles and obstacles, have strengthened me... You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
- Walt Disney

April 30, 2012, 07:23:45 PM
Reply #24
Online

GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
If we had a decent right hand side then the opposition wouldn't be able to overload on their right hand side leaving baines with more freedom. he is a victim of his own ability.

I think this is true to an extent.

What should be taken from these 3 games is that we shouldn't be constantly looking to use him.

If the best option is to play it out to the left then we should use it; if that isn't the best option then we should use the more preferable one.

By doing this we should increase the number of good positions that he'd get into.

One thing that isn't clear though is that with a more defensive back 4 this may allow the front 4 much more freedom. There probably isn't as much restriction on where they can run.

I also think that we migh play a bit quicker in that we're not trying to manufacture moves that have to wait for Baines to have got on the overlap.

It's very hard to say about those points though.

As I said, the main thing is that we realise that we can score goals through a variety of methods.

April 30, 2012, 08:14:55 PM
Reply #25
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Toddacelli


I think this is true to an extent.

What should be taken from these 3 games is that we shouldn't be constantly looking to use him.

If the best option is to play it out to the left then we should use it; if that isn't the best option then we should use the more preferable one.

By doing this we should increase the number of good positions that he'd get into.

One thing that isn't clear though is that with a more defensive back 4 this may allow the front 4 much more freedom. There probably isn't as much restriction on where they can run.

I also think that we migh play a bit quicker in that we're not trying to manufacture moves that have to wait for Baines to have got on the overlap.

It's very hard to say about those points though.

As I said, the main thing is that we realise that we can score goals through a variety of methods.

A few players seem to have certain 'default' settings when their confidence is low. Big or fast striker up front = Hoof it. Not sure what to do with the ball in midfield = look for Baines/Pienaar. We seem quite easily panicked into this style of play sometimes, and although a lot of things have improved in recent weeks, I have yet to see anything that gives me the confidence that we will show composure on the ball when under real pressure.*

*The manure game I feel was a bit different because it was end to end, we scored first and always looked like scoring. The first time a team has a good organised game against Jelavic and he becomes difficult to involve or supply - what will we do?
    

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April 30, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
Reply #26
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.Rimbo.


Baines carried us for pretty much two years. When Saha went off the boil and Pienaar left, everything came from Baines. For me, he is the best attacking left back in the league and probably the best overall.

May 01, 2012, 05:27:14 AM
Reply #27
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howard1334


Baines carried us for pretty much two years. When Saha went off the boil and Pienaar left, everything came from Baines. For me, he is the best attacking left back in the league and probably the best overall.

Agreed, though Cashley is overall a better defender...

May 01, 2012, 01:39:27 PM
Reply #28
Online

GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
A few players seem to have certain 'default' settings when their confidence is low. Big or fast striker up front = Hoof it. Not sure what to do with the ball in midfield = look for Baines/Pienaar. We seem quite easily panicked into this style of play sometimes, and although a lot of things have improved in recent weeks, I have yet to see anything that gives me the confidence that we will show composure on the ball when under real pressure.*

*The manure game I feel was a bit different because it was end to end, we scored first and always looked like scoring. The first time a team has a good organised game against Jelavic and he becomes difficult to involve or supply - what will we do?

That's true I think.

It's why people need to be too careful when predicting that we can really push on for 4th next year or when wondering why we have poor performances.

We (and I presume all other midtable teams) have a lot of players who only play really well when it's going well for us. That's one of the big (and expensive) things that's hard to find; players who can make a difference and play well even when most of the rest of the team is struggling.

Of course confidence can overcome a lot of that problem. As you say we're bound to have games where Jelavic is more tightly marked. It's then having the confidence to keep going.

Baines has shown over the past few seasons that he certainly does keep going which is why he's a top level player these days.

May 01, 2012, 05:31:28 PM
Reply #29
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blargins

NSNO Subscriber
I believe our most creative outlet the second half of this season is Pienaar and perhaps even Fellaini, he's had a few assists too.

Baines thankfully is becoming less important in terms of creativity, which of course is a good thing.
"All the adversity I've had in my life, all my troubles and obstacles, have strengthened me... You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
- Walt Disney