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Author Topic: Great Start to the Season BUT...  (Read 4919 times)

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October 02, 2013, 01:20:14 AM
Reply #15
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Major Clanger


I dont recall us being a pressing team under Moyes.

One of his many weaknesses was how he set the team out to play deep.

That was a long time ago. Last season we played with probably the highest line in the league and we pressed in very intensive bursts. And those are the ones that really rack up the miles, not the simple defensive shifting we're doing now.

(By the way, I'm not saying one is better than the other, all those touches we had in the final third didn't help us much to break down teams after all, just that we used to run a lot and we still do.)
The Shadow Over Inasmuch - The Adventures of Bicoid, Hunchback and Kruppel

deCoubertin

October 02, 2013, 01:22:44 AM
Reply #16
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blargins

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I have no problems with defence as long as we are scoring more goals than we are letting in per game.

We have something like the 6th best defence in the league at present, so no worries.
"All the adversity I've had in my life, all my troubles and obstacles, have strengthened me... You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
- Walt Disney

October 02, 2013, 01:27:37 AM
Reply #17
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Gash

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Wasn't last night the first goal we'd conceded at home since March?

It's the same two defenders that played most of last season together. We also had something like 17 games in a row last season where we didn't keep a clean sheet. It's not really a concern, if we were shipping goals and not scoring it would be more of a worry, the difference this season is we're scoring, last season we were conceding early then fighting just to draw games, or letting sloppy goals in near the end and drawing them.


October 02, 2013, 01:28:50 AM
Reply #18
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taffytoffee


The goals we have conceded most of them weren't from defensive errors, RB of Norwich sliced a shot and ended up a cross for a goal, west ham deflected goal and a penalty last night great goal from cabaye couldn't do much about it.
So all in all I don't think we got much to worry about at the moment.
Also want to say i didnt think distin would cope with the new style of football and would struggle to adapt but how wrong was I he has been immense

October 02, 2013, 01:34:56 AM
Reply #19
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Bluedylan


Same as blarg. Not a huge issue at this point. I think some of the goals we've conceded have been a bit sloppy, but nothing more significant. We've conceded a couple not closing down quickly enough on the edge in the Norwich game and then again last night, which has been more an issue for the DM/CMs.

Given the amount of time the CBs spend on the ball now under the Martinez style and the calamities and catastrophes that many predicted when we appointed RM, I've been generally happy with the defence. Jags needs to sharpen up a bit of course.

I think we should acknowledge how much we're expecting of our CBs and give them a little slack as they get used to things. They're being asked to go from getting the ball forward quickly, and looking for diagonal 50 yard balls over the last few seasons, to being expected to start the play, control the tempo to some extent, pick out accurate passes throughout the 90 minutes knowing that one slip or underhit pass could be fatal, and do all of their previous defensive duties on top of it. Given all of that, they've adjusted really well and Distin in particular has been stellar.

What will be interesting is to see if we're linked with ball playing CBs in January and next summer. It seemed that RM really wanted Martins Indi in the window.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

October 02, 2013, 01:40:02 AM
Reply #20
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Outworlder47


I have no problems with defence as long as we are scoring more goals than we are letting in per game.

We have something like the 6th best defence in the league at present, so no worries.

Exactly. Goals allowed doesn't tell you a whole lot this early--just look at West Ham. 5 points from 6 games, sitting one spot off the drop zone, yet they've only conceded 5 times. Problem is, they've only scored 4 (and half of those came in our match against them). We've scored joint-third most with 9, tied with Villa and behind only City and Arsenal.

I'd like to see our goal differential grow, but that will come.


October 02, 2013, 02:05:23 AM
Reply #21
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blueski


I'm not quite sure about that, we pressed high and we pressed a lot under Moyes, which doesn't look like much running, until you try it :)

There's probably a lot more movement off the ball though now when we're in possession.

Maybe we should write to the Executioner's Bong fella to look into it.
I'm thinking that there's much more of a box to box aspect of our CMs since they have to drop back and be part of the posession game at the back and continually create new passing angles, which is less of an issue if the ball's getting lofted 60yds over your head to fellaini, but youre right maybe the pressing aspect & need to move quickly to win 2nd balls etc would add up

not sure regarding the forwards whether they are covering more ground but I definitely was surprised several times at how deep lukaku was playing in the 2nd half
Nil Satis

October 02, 2013, 02:20:00 AM
Reply #22
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Major Clanger


I'm thinking that there's much more of a box to box aspect of our CMs since they have to drop back and be part of the posession game at the back and continually create new passing angles, which is less of an issue if the ball's getting lofted 60yds over your head to fellaini, but youre right maybe the pressing aspect & need to move quickly to win 2nd balls etc would add up

You might be right, in my experience distance covered stats are notoriously hard to anticipate. We should really see them and that would settle the argument :)
The Shadow Over Inasmuch - The Adventures of Bicoid, Hunchback and Kruppel

October 02, 2013, 01:20:10 PM
Reply #23
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GLewis

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My issue is still increasing the number of goals we score in comparison to the territory/possession/chances that we have.

The 2nd half really wasn't as bad as some people have made out.

The problem was that we lost it 0-2 when at worst it should have been 2-2 and then there are no late nerves etc.

Yes we've let in 4 in the last 2 games but one was a deflection, 1 was a penalty and 1 was a great strike.

You can find fault in all of them but these things do happen in games.

Equally though while we've scored 6, 2 have been free kicks (bare in mind that Baines only score 1 last season so they're not common) and 1 has been from horrendous, Sunday league defending.

We could see this at Fulham too where our dominant half produced 1 goal while the more even half ended up 0-2.

Without the spectacular goals or the horrendous mistakes we don't get the amount of goals that our performance should have brought.


Now this isn't a new issue.

Last season was exactly the same. Even in the early games (we had 13 points at this stage) when we were beating Villa, Swansea, Southampton pretty easily, we were coming away thinking how didn't we score 5 or 6.

Of course when we stopped scoring, mistakes were highlighted and we started dropping points regularly.

2-2 draws with Wigan, L'pool and worst of the lot Fulham. Then ultimately we started losing games like Reading where we should have been 5-0 up by half time.


Of course this season we'd hope that Lukaku will score more than Jelavic and Victor combined (13 league goals) and that Barkley can get close to Felli's 11 league goals.

Monday's extra goals should have put the game beyond Newcastle's reach and probably would have done had Cabaye's shot not gone in.

But going back to my main point, they had their chance straight after half time which hit the post but we immediately had a chance ourselves which was scrambled off the line.

We could have tried to see out the game by smothering possession and killing any momentum for them. The other option, which we took, was to treat it as a normal game and basically trade chances.

This option was fine apart from the obvious point that we didn't put any away.

Basically all the above is a long winded way of saying that I don't have any issues with our defending so far, or for in the future.

It's more that people should bare in mind last season and that we're obviously to likely to have some games that don't go our way.

When that is the case people shouldn't go over the top with worry or criticisms.

October 02, 2013, 02:49:10 PM
Reply #24
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Confucius

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When we got Martinez we all said we would rather win 3-2 than 1-0 so get used to it. To be more attacking you lose out defensively. It's part of life and way more fun
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October 02, 2013, 03:11:47 PM
Reply #25
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Jimbo and the Jetset


A few of the goals we've been conceding have been annoying (particularly Toons 2nd the other night that cost me 200 for Lukaku first goal + 3-1 scorecast at 33/1...Grrrr!)

But...

These soft goals would have been costing us points last season so it's not so bad.
Life as an Evertonian isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain.

October 02, 2013, 03:20:18 PM
Reply #26
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Ross





Quote

Winning a half -
   a term used by lesser football managers for their own teams abject failings, an       
                             assessment based purely on irrelevancy, a media facade, a statement of subterfuge

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

October 02, 2013, 06:48:20 PM
Reply #27
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GLewis

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While this, more often than not, is true, I think our recent games have seen quite sizeable shifts in our performance/control of the game from one half to another.

The last 3 in particular have seen very strong performances in one half and ok to poor (WHam 1st half) performances in the other.

This has provided quite sharp contrasts which have made it easier to identify what we are doing well and what areas require improvement.


October 02, 2013, 07:11:46 PM
Reply #28
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blue slug


Why are the performances dipping so much in the second half though. Is it a mental or physical thing, i personally am not sure, or are other teams playing poor first halfs and better second halfs?

October 02, 2013, 07:18:20 PM
Reply #29
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blargins

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It's probably a fitness thing. That should improve with time.
"All the adversity I've had in my life, all my troubles and obstacles, have strengthened me... You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
- Walt Disney