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Author Topic: 20 years without a trophy. Who's to blame?  (Read 5031 times)

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May 21, 2015, 01:14:06 AM
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TheRam

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Seen a lot of this stuff on twitter so thought we might as well get involved.

So where does the blame lie for 20 baron years at Everton?

Whilst the board should be accountable for our lack of progression in general as a club, they shouldn't shoulder the blame when it comes to lack of trophies.

We've seen the likes of Wigan, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Swansea all win cups in recent years, proving you dont have to spend big money to win a cup. You need the luck of the draw (something we very rarely get) and the ability to set a team out to win on the day.

Was it the boards fault Moyes didn't change the right-hand side in the 09 final, was it their fault we completely bottled the semi against the shite, was it their fault for the gung-ho approach in Kiev when we needed a 0-0 to progress?

For me there's no one group or individual to blame for our lack of trophies. It's a case of the mentality of the club and lack of belief that has held us back, as well as our overall approach to the cup competitions.

Discuss.

deCoubertin

May 21, 2015, 01:16:06 AM
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Silas

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I don't blame the board at all for the lack of cups, the teams Moyes and now Martinez assembled are more than good enough in terms of talent to win one. A combination of bad luck, lack of belief and poor performances coupled with some poor management decisions are to blame.

May 21, 2015, 01:19:46 AM
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ihatecollina


Dont think there is much to add to what you have already said to be honest Ram.... pretty much summed up..
The bird in the pink is back.....


May 21, 2015, 01:22:37 AM
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Shogun

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It has to be said that aside from the Wigan match which still haunts me, we haven't had a lot of luck in draws and obviously our negligence towards competing in the league cup under Moyes and Martinez has been a big part of our failure to win silverware.

When we actually did get far in a cup, we faced Chelsea in the semi finals of the league cup in 2007(?), we faced Man United then Chelsea in the FA Cup in 2009 and in 2011, we faced the Shite when we reached the latter stages.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 01:24:32 AM by Shogun »
I'm more trusting of fellas when they have my cock in their mouth

May 21, 2015, 01:35:36 AM
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Bluedylan


We've lacked professionalism and character at times (combined with other factors you mention).

We all joke about the League Cup, but our complete inability to progress in it, when presented with plenty of good draws through the years, has been nothing short of an abject failure by everyone at the club and a reflection on a lack of professionalism from our managers and players. There's no excuse for that.

Aside from that we've forgotten how to win things. We don't have a culture of embracing big occasions really. A little of that has changed under Martinez, but it's a long haul, and to get the ball rolling, we have to get over the line.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 01:36:14 AM by Bluedylan »
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

May 21, 2015, 01:43:14 AM
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Brownie20

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It's the nature of sport at any level. Everything you've mentioned Ram is a contributing factor. There is another trophy just around the corner - I can smell it
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May 21, 2015, 02:14:25 AM
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ally2


I put the blame with three groups.

First is Moyes. We were regularly top 6 under him. From pure probability we should have won something over those 10 years. We had the cup final but we were horrifically inferior. Despite that our record in the league cups was horrid.

Second I would blame the creation of the premier league. It was the era of takeover and oligarchs. We couldn't attract that ourselves and could not compete on a level playing field with those that did.

Lastly is the board. Obvious one but clearly our failure to secure a new ground combined with very poor financial decisions. Even now we are run like we are still in the 90's.

May 21, 2015, 02:15:50 AM
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Silas

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I put the blame with three groups.

First is Moyes. We were regularly top 6 under him. From pure probability we should have won something over those 10 years. We had the cup final but we were horrifically inferior. Despite that our record in the league cups was horrid.

Second I would blame the creation of the premier league. It was the era of takeover and oligarchs. We couldn't attract that ourselves and could not compete on a level playing field with those that did.

Lastly is the board. Obvious one but clearly our failure to secure a new ground combined with very poor financial decisions. Even now we are run like we are still in the 90's.

How is the board responsible for us not winning a Cup? I really don't get the connection?

May 21, 2015, 02:18:32 AM
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ally2



How is the board responsible for us not winning a Cup? I really don't get the connection?

Money

May 21, 2015, 02:19:46 AM
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Silas

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Money

So the squad assembled by Moyes wasn't good enough to win a cup?

May 21, 2015, 02:20:26 AM
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Major Clanger


I blame all the other teams who try to beat us every week. If it wasn't for them, we'd have won loads.
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May 21, 2015, 02:22:54 AM
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ally2


So the squad assembled by Moyes wasn't good enough to win a cup?

It was good enough. That's why I blame Moyes too. Clearly if we had a better squad then we would have had a better chance. For example a lack of squad depth in the Liverpool semi when Drenthe went awol. And no cover for Jags in the Chelsea final. And generally speaking, Tony Hibbert.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 02:23:16 AM by ally2 »

May 21, 2015, 02:24:35 AM
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ally2


I forgot another reason - not being called Everton St. Domingos.

May 21, 2015, 02:38:17 AM
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eame



May 21, 2015, 02:54:58 AM
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Simon Paul

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the thing is, it's actually longer for any "real" success

we beat Man Utd in the 1995 Final through sheer determination and hard work.  the players in that side weren't the most skilful bunch were they?  And we failed to capitalise on that cup success and build.

I'd actually go back almost 30 years to where the problems started, and that wasn't with Heysel, because everyone else was banned from Europe as well at that time but several clubs recovered quickly and effectively from it.

It was the fact that John Moores became ill and the club was a rudderless ship.

He wasn't there for the top bods on the board to run things past and get his agreement to - or to say no so they jibbed whatever it was - or to tell them what to do - on a daily basis.

At that point, someone should have stepped in and taken control.  Someone should have stepped up to the mark and made decisions.  Instead we were left floundering for several years.  Losing our best players and manager and instead of installing a proven manager, we promoted the head coach.  Colin Harvey was an incredible coach, but not manager material, certainly not the manager to take over from Howard Kendall.  But he was the easy, safe choice for a board who had no idea without Moores.

Luckily, just like with the Football League, we bagged ourselves a seat at the top table with the Premier League when we were actually in a state of decline and could easily have been left out by the other clubs without too much protest from anyone outside the club.

But we still had no real idea of where we were going.

Manchester United were busying themselves buying up all the houses around Old Trafford during the 80's and knocking them down before any real planning rules came in.  Everton were cash-rich but doing nothing with it.  Then when we did something with it, we ended up buying garbage and employing managers like Mike Walker.

For me, we're still recovering from that.