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Author Topic: 20 years without a trophy. Who's to blame?  (Read 5044 times)

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May 21, 2015, 03:01:33 AM
Reply #15
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TheTone


It's a case of the mentality of the club and lack of belief that has held us back, as well as our overall approach to the cup competitions.

spot on there Ram lid, a definite inferiority complex has been running right through the club for years

when we got ourselves into decent positions to win something we well and truly bottled it  :headbang:


deCoubertin

May 21, 2015, 03:05:54 AM
Reply #16
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School of Science


Number one for me is lack of belief when in a good position to progress, the Liverpool semi for instance, 1-0 up and cruising. A lot of this self belief is down to the actual time in between trophy wins, it just becomes the norm to be unlucky, to be close and to be plucky little Everton, its an inbuilt mindset. Also we were very close under Moyes, the team was very close the cup final year, I just thought the board let Moyes down during that period, there were 3 or four transfer windows were we bought practically no one. I'm not talking about the buys of Heitinga and Billy, they were rushed by the very late and forced sale of Lescott. Thus in my eyes they were poor buys unusual for Moyes. 20 years though is far too long for a club like Everton, we should now prioritise the cups just to get that fkin monkey off our backs.
Everton premier league champions 2014 / 15

May 21, 2015, 03:17:53 AM
Reply #17
Online

Evertonian in NC


"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin


May 21, 2015, 04:30:28 AM
Reply #18
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Lxxx


Moyes had a permanent underdog approach to virtually every game we ever played so even when we went into games against lower level, inferior opposition we still played the same way. Under 10 years of Moyes mentally we never took the shackles off so cups, where we should have been in with a good shout, we blew them.
Before that we had a shite squad year after year so that's easily explained.
With Martinez we should now be in a perfect position to do better, next year we need to start seeing some improvement in the cups.

May 21, 2015, 10:07:54 AM
Reply #19
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The Analog Kid








 . You need the luck of the draw (something we very rarely get) and the ability to set a team out to win on the day.








Think this pretty much sums it up really.

May 21, 2015, 10:08:25 AM
Reply #20
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The Analog Kid


Dunno what happened to that quote like.


May 21, 2015, 01:23:30 PM
Reply #21
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
So the squad assembled by Moyes wasn't good enough to win a cup?

For me the biggest disappointment will always be Wigan.

That aside, the latter half of Moyes' time here, when we were consistent in the league, saw us get to a final, and two semis in the last 5 years that he was here.

That's not bad.

If we'd been better/braver/luckier/whatever along with the Wigan debacle we could have come away with 1/2 trophies in that period.

So we were close and better management by Moyes "could" have got us over the line at least once.

But as @Shogun says in the later stages we've come up against teams who would expect to beat us.

I know we finished above Liverpool in 11/12 but they had better individuals.

Then there's in game luck such as can you plan for Lescott being out jumped by Shaun Wright-Phillips or Distin playing in Suarez.

But overall as @Simon Paul says the overall management of the team has been on the decline.

We've not been in a financially supported situation where we should be winning things for a number of years.

We've been a decent team over the past decade or so but the spending gap to the teams that should win things is such that we're in the same boat as most other teams where we might win something.

There are loads of teams over the years who think that that they should be winning things but how often does it happen.

Newcastle are the obvious example but Villa have hardly been trophy laden in the past 20 years and for lots of them they spent good money.

Both of those certainly spent more than we have.

We obviously don't help ourselves by not taking the early LC rounds too seriously. But then on the other hand did Swansea, for example take their early rounds seriously? I don't know. I remember Wigan nearly went out to lower league opposition in the 3rd round when they won the Cup.

So there is always going to be that but of luck.

But the flip side of the luck of the draw argument is that as said, the tough draws are against teams that expect to win things.

And they expect to win things as they've invested heavily in their squads.

They also expect to finish in the top 4 and maybe even win the league.

Therefore until we can expect to be one of the top, top teams by virtue of what we're putting into the squad then we're always going to be hoping that it's our year and then hoping that we don't balls it up.

May 22, 2015, 03:48:31 PM
Reply #22
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Bingham Boy


We're the hard done to unlucky but nice Everton. Bad things happen to us.

It is that type of mentality that runs through the club including our fanbase. It's about time we started kicking off everywhere, showing some aggression, let everyone know who we are. Get that air of superiority about us. None of this kopite obsessionalism that drags us down.

May 22, 2015, 04:10:12 PM
Reply #23
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bacon sarnie


Blame it on the boogie.

May 22, 2015, 04:13:03 PM
Reply #24
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Optimistic Blue


A changing of the times. If one of the money clubs decides they want to win the trophy they win it. The exceptions are just complete flukes
you cant take the right out of Kenwright

May 22, 2015, 04:15:34 PM
Reply #25
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JordanianEmbassy


I blame Drogba and Lampard.

May 22, 2015, 04:51:16 PM
Reply #26
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toffee_scot


Largely it is to do with luck of the draw, self-belief and complacency.

There are also about 25 other teams who are capable of winning the cup and about 5 teams (Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool) who have that advantage with regards to resources and mentality.

Maybe next year will be our year or maybe in 5 years time. It really depends when all pieces fall into place.


May 22, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
Reply #27
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goodtouchforabigman


the thing is, it's actually longer for any "real" success

we beat Man Utd in the 1995 Final through sheer determination and hard work.  the players in that side weren't the most skilful bunch were they?  And we failed to capitalise on that cup success and build.


I'd actually go back almost 30 years to where the problems started, and that wasn't with Heysel, because everyone else was banned from Europe as well at that time but several clubs recovered quickly and effectively from it.

It was the fact that John Moores became ill and the club was a rudderless ship.

He wasn't there for the top bods on the board to run things past and get his agreement to - or to say no so they jibbed whatever it was - or to tell them what to do - on a daily basis.

At that point, someone should have stepped in and taken control.  Someone should have stepped up to the mark and made decisions.  Instead we were left floundering for several years.  Losing our best players and manager and instead of installing a proven manager, we promoted the head coach.  Colin Harvey was an incredible coach, but not manager material, certainly not the manager to take over from Howard Kendall.  But he was the easy, safe choice for a board who had no idea without Moores.

Luckily, just like with the Football League, we bagged ourselves a seat at the top table with the Premier League when we were actually in a state of decline and could easily have been left out by the other clubs without too much protest from anyone outside the club.

But we still had no real idea of where we were going.

Manchester United were busying themselves buying up all the houses around Old Trafford during the 80's and knocking them down before any real planning rules came in.  Everton were cash-rich but doing nothing with it.  Then when we did something with it, we ended up buying garbage and employing managers like Mike Walker.

For me, we're still recovering from that.
You make a lots of good points but I think you are massively understating the disproportional negative effects the European ban had on Everton. That ban cost us 2 cracks at the European Cup, a chance to increase our profile on the European stage. The year of Heysel was our first ever European trophy, Liverpool and Utd already had a big name in Europe due to previous success.

That ban also cost us our manager and a number of key players and the chance to really dominate domestically and to compete in Europe, just as it was about to become the money pit that helped to create the new super rich clubs.

Of course we need to accept responsibility for our own demise but, in my opinion, that ban hurt us much more than other English clubs we were competing with at the time.


May 22, 2015, 06:22:17 PM
Reply #28
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MmmBlueRamirez


I blame Martinez.

If he hadn't tactically outsmarted Moyes at GP we'd have bloody won the FA cup that year.
Farming Karma like the Dalai Llama

May 22, 2015, 06:27:44 PM
Reply #29
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JordanianEmbassy


I blame Martinez.

If he hadn't tactically outsmarted Moyes at GP we'd have bloody won the FA cup that year.

Martinez out!