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Author Topic: 20 years without a trophy. Who's to blame?  (Read 5027 times)

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May 22, 2015, 09:25:52 PM
Reply #30
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Ell Capitan

NSNO Subscriber
I suppose we're all ignoring the glorious Charity Shield victory against Blackburn in August 1995?

20 years my balls.

deCoubertin

May 22, 2015, 10:06:02 PM
Reply #31
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sirblue57


the thing is, it's actually longer for any "real" success

we beat Man Utd in the 1995 Final through sheer determination and hard work.  the players in that side weren't the most skilful bunch were they?  And we failed to capitalise on that cup success and build.

I'd actually go back almost 30 years to where the problems started, and that wasn't with Heysel, because everyone else was banned from Europe as well at that time but several clubs recovered quickly and effectively from it.

It was the fact that John Moores became ill and the club was a rudderless ship.

He wasn't there for the top bods on the board to run things past and get his agreement to - or to say no so they jibbed whatever it was - or to tell them what to do - on a daily basis.

At that point, someone should have stepped in and taken control.  Someone should have stepped up to the mark and made decisions.  Instead we were left floundering for several years.  Losing our best players and manager and instead of installing a proven manager, we promoted the head coach.  Colin Harvey was an incredible coach, but not manager material, certainly not the manager to take over from Howard Kendall.  But he was the easy, safe choice for a board who had no idea without Moores.

Luckily, just like with the Football League, we bagged ourselves a seat at the top table with the Premier League when we were actually in a state of decline and could easily have been left out by the other clubs without too much protest from anyone outside the club.

But we still had no real idea of where we were going.

Manchester United were busying themselves buying up all the houses around Old Trafford during the 80's and knocking them down before any real planning rules came in.  Everton were cash-rich but doing nothing with it.  Then when we did something with it, we ended up buying garbage and employing managers like Mike Walker.

For me, we're still recovering from that.

spot on, and its still that lack of direction from the top in certain aspects that holds us back. oh for another john moores type of chairman.
I'm the "trophy husband" from the game my wife regrets playing.

May 23, 2015, 12:57:59 AM
Reply #32
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montanatoffeefan


Everton forever.


May 23, 2015, 01:36:10 AM
Reply #33
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Mayor Farnum


Maybe we should ask Chelsea. They’ve come on really strong in the last twenty years.

May 23, 2015, 07:07:30 AM
Reply #34
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Rhys


We've seen the likes of Portsmouth all win cups in recent years, proving you dont have to spend big money to win a cup.

Pompey have been in financial meltdown because of what they spent to win that cup!

Overall there are obviously a few reasons but the biggest for me is it just really difficult. Liverpool 1 trophy in 9 years (league cup playing a lower league team in the final), arsenal 1 in 10 (playing a lower league team and hull in the last 2 rounds). They are 2 of the best and most consistent teams over the period and have 2 trophies between them. Sometimes the stars align like Wigan getting us on a meltdown day and city when the manager was known to be sacked regardless, Pompey only playing 1 premier league team in their run man united who had their keeper sent off, swansea getting a league 2 team in the final, whereas us in 2009 had to play 1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th and we were the 5th best team!

Yes more money would help, yes more bottle from moyes, less naivety from Martinez in Kiev gives you a better chance and if you combine all of them then you increase your chances. But even with all that it is really hard unless you have city or Chelsea money before FFP. After all man united haven't won an FA Cup for 11 years now.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 07:11:55 AM by Rhys »

May 23, 2015, 07:13:13 AM
Reply #35
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Gash

Global Moderator
Didn't Portsmouth have a wage bill of something like 110% of turnover?


May 23, 2015, 09:51:31 AM
Reply #36
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montanatoffeefan


When you've got the likes of Ali al-Faraj backing your wage bill, its relation to turnover means next to nothing....Or was that his net worth?

At any rate, Portsmouth had a damn good team that season, as big and physical as maybe any in the world. Lot of good players, and a good, sturdy side for a cup run.

Maybe that cup win still helps Pompey fans feel better in these years when they're struggling against relegation--from League 2. But I doubt it.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 02:59:46 PM by montanatoffeefan »
Everton forever.

May 23, 2015, 04:20:44 PM
Reply #37
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bacon sarnie


spot on, and its still that lack of direction from the top in certain aspects that holds us back. oh for another john moores type of chairman.

Like winning the Pools Moores was a one off but we can live in hope.

May 23, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
Reply #38
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sirblue57


Like winning the Pools Moores was a one off but we can live in hope.

apart from the money though, he had a desire to win , and managers knew that pretty football alone, would not save them, they had to challenge for, and eventually win, trophies.

and pressure from the top certainly focused them.
I'm the "trophy husband" from the game my wife regrets playing.

May 23, 2015, 07:27:38 PM
Reply #39
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sootyjrw


You make a lots of good points but I think you are massively understating the disproportional negative effects the European ban had on Everton. That ban cost us 2 cracks at the European Cup, a chance to increase our profile on the European stage. The year of Heysel was our first ever European trophy, Liverpool and Utd already had a big name in Europe due to previous success.

That ban also cost us our manager and a number of key players and the chance to really dominate domestically and to compete in Europe, just as it was about to become the money pit that helped to create the new super rich clubs.

Of course we need to accept responsibility for our own demise but, in my opinion, that ban hurt us much more than other English clubs we were competing with at the time.
totally agree with all that but when the ban was lifted, the board should have demanded that the FA put our name forward to enter the European Cup as a goodwill gesture but there was no forward thinking at the time

May 23, 2015, 10:07:03 PM
Reply #40
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GLewis

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apart from the money though, he had a desire to win , and managers knew that pretty football alone, would not save them, they had to challenge for, and eventually win, trophies.

and pressure from the top certainly focused them.

You can only demand that if you adequately support the manager though.

May 24, 2015, 05:18:11 AM
Reply #41
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sirblue57


You can only demand that if you adequately support the manager though.

which moores did.
I'm the "trophy husband" from the game my wife regrets playing.

May 24, 2015, 02:00:34 PM
Reply #42
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
which moores did.

Yes.

Obviously now we're in a position where the board can't/won't fund us sufficiently so therefore they're in no position to make such demands.

Of course were they to start making such demands managers would be regularly pointing out that they weren't adequately backed which would bring pressure back onto the board.

May 24, 2015, 03:12:30 PM
Reply #43
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farnhamtoffee


 :bonk: Blame it on the Pony Express