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Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 179566 times)

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December 23, 2017, 04:49:42 AM
Reply #2685
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
No say except funding it and physically helping build it, you mean?

So no then.

Neither building nor funding infers having an actual say (when the funding model is from the bottom up).

In the second way the guys driving the digger down there don't get a say about the match day experience.

Clutching a bit there.

deCoubertin

December 23, 2017, 03:59:16 PM
Reply #2686
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Simon Paul

Administrator
So no then.

Neither building nor funding infers having an actual say (when the funding model is from the bottom up).

In the second way the guys driving the digger down there don't get a say about the match day experience.

Clutching a bit there.

I've not gone through them but I dare say that if we looked at the minute books where Goodison was discussed - and once the extra 8,000 or so shares were sold - then there'd be a bit of discussion among shareholders as to how it looked

There was even a ballot among shareholders when George Mahon pulled Goodison out of his area pocket at the Sandon. Given the time I doubt there there too many supporters groups to speak to about it, but I reckon the shareholders supported the team as well


December 23, 2017, 05:45:00 PM
Reply #2687
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Alanvideo


Just received the EFC accounts for 2017 , bit of light reading for later.
edit : ( wrong thread just seen the financial results thread )
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 05:52:07 PM by Alanvideo »
We are special ,we are Everton.


December 23, 2017, 09:50:43 PM
Reply #2688
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
I've not gone through them but I dare say that if we looked at the minute books where Goodison was discussed - and once the extra 8,000 or so shares were sold - then there'd be a bit of discussion among shareholders as to how it looked

There was even a ballot among shareholders when George Mahon pulled Goodison out of his area pocket at the Sandon. Given the time I doubt there there too many supporters groups to speak to about it, but I reckon the shareholders supported the team as well



So we're agreeing that average fans weren't consulted then? Just people with a (legal) financial stake in the club?

December 23, 2017, 10:10:54 PM
Reply #2689
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Simon Paul

Administrator
So we're agreeing that average fans weren't consulted then? Just people with a (legal) financial stake in the club?

average fans were offered a chance to buy into the club at the time, which gave them a say.

but even those fans with a (legal) financial stake in the club haven't been given any say in the BMD move either - well, except those who own at least a couple of hundred grand's worth of shares that is

the General Meeting won't be to give those a say either.  It will be a powerpoint presentation of "this is what we hope to do" the same as last year, because the articles of association make General Meetings meaningless in everything other than a PR act anyway

December 24, 2017, 12:55:39 PM
Reply #2690
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bluenuck


average fans were offered a chance to buy into the club at the time, which gave them a say.

but even those fans with a (legal) financial stake in the club haven't been given any say in the BMD move either - well, except those who own at least a couple of hundred grand's worth of shares that is

the General Meeting won't be to give those a say either.  It will be a powerpoint presentation of "this is what we hope to do" the same as last year, because the articles of association make General Meetings meaningless in everything other than a PR act anyway

Seriously. What are you really getting at?? What do really want from this club?

seems you want us to stay as the people's club but not sell our souls to break into the top 4.

Which is almost impossible in this day.


December 24, 2017, 03:15:25 PM
Reply #2691
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Simon Paul

Administrator
Seriously. What are you really getting at?? What do really want from this club?

seems you want us to stay as the people's club but not sell our souls to break into the top 4.

Which is almost impossible in this day.

As a shareholder and as someone who runs one of the biggest Everton online communities, then I would have expected to hear about Everton getting in touch with people about their views on the stadium

I thought I'd posted that?

December 24, 2017, 05:57:13 PM
Reply #2692
Online

van der Meyde


As a shareholder and as someone who runs one of the biggest Everton online communities, then I would have expected to hear about Everton getting in touch with people about their views on the stadium

I thought I'd posted that?
The move in general? Or more specifically on questions like the location and stadium design?

I'm a bit wary of public consultation on this really. I know you were against it, but despite significant fan opposition to the move, we had a poll of 25,000+ that returned a majority for a move to Kirkby. Beyond local heritage groups, there hasn't really been much opposition to Bramley Moore. A lot of the more outspoken Kirkby critics have been on board too. I'm not certain what we need to consult about location wise.

As for the stadium design itself? They've hired an architect to do that.

We all want a bit more transparency from the club, but I'm not entirely certain what kind of consultation you'd hope for and, more importantly, what would you actually want to achieve from it?
...

December 24, 2017, 06:02:33 PM
Reply #2693
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Simon Paul

Administrator
The move in general? Or more specifically on questions like the location and stadium design?

I'm a bit wary of public consultation on this really. I know you were against it, but despite significant fan opposition to the move, we had a poll of 25,000+ that returned a majority for a move to Kirkby. Beyond local heritage groups, there hasn't really been much opposition to Bramley Moore. A lot of the more outspoken Kirkby critics have been on board too. I'm not certain what we need to consult about location wise.

As for the stadium design itself? They've hired an architect to do that.

We all want a bit more transparency from the club, but I'm not entirely certain what kind of consultation you'd hope for and, more importantly, what would you actually want to achieve from it?

not public consultation unless legislation called for it, as with Kirby and the Inquiry.  The location wasn't the main stumbling block there though, as we're all more than aware!

consulting stakeholders such as the Shareholders' Association, Fans' Forum, supporters' groups, at key stages of the design process could be helpful, however.  maybe even meetings with the architect and those people to sit down and chat. 

the club did a consultation with those groups over the imagery we see in the concourses at Goodison Park and it was pretty straight-forward to do and took the half time of the pre-season friendly.  Obviously the stadium is more than that, but a few hour long meetings to touch base and swap thoughts on the process wouldn't do any harm at all.

We go to football matches to feel like we are a part of it.  It hurts when we lose because we feel like we're a part of it, and we walk tall when we win 0-0 against Chelsea because we've felt like we're a part of it.  That same mentality is rolled out to several other initiatives which are far less important than a stadium, I don't think it's out of order to wonder why it hasn't been included in stadium design at this point.

December 24, 2017, 06:47:34 PM
Reply #2694
Online

van der Meyde


consulting stakeholders such as the Shareholders' Association, Fans' Forum, supporters' groups, at key stages of the design process could be helpful, however.  maybe even meetings with the architect and those people to sit down and chat. 

the club did a consultation with those groups over the imagery we see in the concourses at Goodison Park and it was pretty straight-forward to do and took the half time of the pre-season friendly.  Obviously the stadium is more than that, but a few hour long meetings to touch base and swap thoughts on the process wouldn't do any harm at all.

We go to football matches to feel like we are a part of it.  It hurts when we lose because we feel like we're a part of it, and we walk tall when we win 0-0 against Chelsea because we've felt like we're a part of it.  That same mentality is rolled out to several other initiatives which are far less important than a stadium, I don't think it's out of order to wonder why it hasn't been included in stadium design at this point.
It has been to an extent though. They performed a fan survey about the new stadium earlier this season:

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/07/31/bramley-moore-dock-fan-feedback

I think I would disagree with having fans more involved with the design process at this stage now personally. I think the final product is more likely to be a mess and more likely to upset people if we have further consultation. We don't even come close to consensus on what we want/like even as a messageboard. We've gone through this with the new badges already (which did have fans' forum involvement). We also had a fan survey. That said Meis must be aware of most of the common themes such a consultation would present through Twitter and he's spoken to a number of people I know at the fan events he's attended. (This sort of communication isn't ideal or close to professional, obviously.)

You're spot on that fans should be consulted about imagery around and inside the stadium, future fanzone style initiatives etc. Arsenal's stadium was a mess for a while, before they begun an "Arsenalificafion" of the ground. We need to be sorting this out way before we move in, you're right.

I think we're probably in agreement about most of this. I would just peg it at the club's communication department as a whole, rather than any particular flaws in the stadium build process.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 06:50:34 PM by van der Meyde »
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December 24, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Reply #2695
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School of Science


As a shareholder and as someone who runs one of the biggest Everton online communities, then I would have expected to hear about Everton getting in touch with people about their views on the stadium

I thought I'd posted that?

Would we not have to see an actual design first that is presented to us, before we could complain / give our input and suggestions ?
Everton premier league champions 2014 / 15

December 24, 2017, 08:26:33 PM
Reply #2696
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Alanvideo


Would we not have to see an actual design first that is presented to us, before we could complain / give our input and suggestions ?
..................I think we'll see an initial design at the AGM in a couple of weeks . I can't see any other reason why the club would bother to call a meeting .
We are special ,we are Everton.

December 24, 2017, 08:36:18 PM
Reply #2697
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School of Science


..................I think we'll see an initial design at the AGM in a couple of weeks . I can't see any other reason why the club would bother to call a meeting .

Other than the good financial results, I hope so AV.
Everton premier league champions 2014 / 15

December 24, 2017, 10:39:05 PM
Reply #2698
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Alanvideo


Other than the good financial results, I hope so AV.
................yes but the financial results are already on record . I'm being optimistic but I expect to see or hear something new at the meeting.
We are special ,we are Everton.

December 31, 2017, 04:34:56 PM
Reply #2699
Online

Toffee1


Update from Robert Elstone, which I suppose gives as much information as they can at this juncture.

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/12/31/robert-elstone