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Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 474764 times)

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January 13, 2017, 05:12:58 PM
Reply #15

Mick 1995

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That's a wind up, no such petition exists on the gov.uk site.


this petition on a the parliament petion site doesnt exist?:

Or are you saying the parliament petition site is meant to be .gov.uk?
Because it's not

January 14, 2017, 02:12:34 AM
Reply #16

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber

Those "major obsticals" mentioned in the AGM? They weren't being cute - this is far, far from a done deal.

January 14, 2017, 05:09:17 PM
Reply #17

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
Tunnels under it would have CABE (Manchester based) and English Heritage (London based) kicking up a shit storm, simply wouldn't get it past them.

Bridges are feasible if we get to knock down a lot of businesses 'over the road'.
That might actually be possible due to the infrastructure improvements/widening of the road.

But yeah, I can't see any other way besides buying into Nelson And Sefton half tide docks

January 24, 2017, 08:46:58 PM
Reply #18

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
I'm kinda getting on board with the Koeman and Moshiri way of doing things. Especially the way he doesn't really do sentiment. Maybe it's the way forward with Bradley moore too. Yes we could incorporate a king Ruperts todger or a fecking church in the corner, at great expense, or we could just go full retard with a brand spanking, super modern, eye-wateringly brilliant and unique new design that shapes Evertons identity for the next 100 years.

February 01, 2017, 02:52:06 PM
Reply #19

Mick 1995

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Did i read there used tobe a train station somewhere on that part of the northern line?

I know they're going to make another one.
Be perfect if it was put between Boundary & Luton Street.
Buy up the buildings in front of it and use that and the grass as a fan park/boulevard.
But i think there are some active and decent size businesses there so probably a non-starter.

There is a huge tract of unused land right over the road from the main building in Stanley dock, but the housing estate behind it may be cause fo concern

February 08, 2017, 05:28:53 PM
Reply #20

Mick 1995

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This has been mentioned before. The roads will be made fit for purpose but footfall is tougher.

The attached picture shows current holes in the wall. The blue cross represents Bramley Moore dock's gate.
Two things are certain:
- That is insufficient space for police/fire/premier league rules and regulations for both home and away fans to use to exit the area
- We will not be able to knock down any of the dock wall at all.

I'd say we'll buy access to the gates represented by the purple & green crosses (and thus the break in the wall represented by the 2 red lines as well). Routes will have to be made through working docks then - which will be a shitty way of getting the match.
In saying this, Nelson dock is part of Liverpool waters so that will imrpove (see pic 2)

If i was a betting man i'd say the green and blue crosses and the red lines would be for home supporters and away fans would be herded through the purple gate.
Whether this offers sufficient egress from the "halo" still I dont know.

February 08, 2017, 07:27:16 PM
Reply #21

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
...............Have to partly disagree .I think it will be possible to apply for permission to modify the dock wall to provide new  or wider entrances /exits. Plenty of listed buildings get modified as long as the alterations are in keeping with the original in terms of scale and materials. There will be health and safety considerations which will help our case.

Well, there is utterly zero chance we can modify these gates:

We can modify this definitely:

But have you got any idea how much Peel have had to scale back Liverpool Waters due to parts of this kind of wall that has been BURIED for 100 years?
They've basically lost interest in it as a development and are now looking to flog it piecemeal due to the fight it would take to build on top of shit that, for all intents and purposes no longer exists.
I follow Peel and developments like this closely. Trust me, Kirkby residents and Jerry Hall have nothing on what we would encounter if we so much as wanted to paint this wall.

@GLewis , that second picture in my previous post shows Peels current plans for Nelson & Bramley. Nelson dock will 100% be dolled up with leisure activities.
Us taking Bramley, the council sorting Great Homer Street & merseyrail opening a station would instantly create an environment where there would be a clamour to invest and create leisure services in Nelson dock.

February 08, 2017, 07:57:06 PM
Reply #22

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
@blue1948 haha, yes - yes i do. (Even typing it i thought 'was the market there greaty or the heritage. Still didn't get onto it!)

There is no reason 'concourse bridges' cannot be deployed @Alanvideo & @Toddacelli , there are one or two places with sufficient land. As you say though, the design of them would have to be pretty impressive to be in keeping with the surroundings. (Heights isn't it's normal issue due to the Regent Road bridge at Collingwood dock).

More than filling in the dock, more than it smelling of shit a couple of times a week due to the treatment works, more than the eyesore the surrounds currently are now, this is (make no mistake) the single largest problem this site has.
It is that big of a problem that i'm still not certain it will go ahead.

February 08, 2017, 08:08:28 PM
Reply #23

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
I don't know the area very well, so apologies if this sounds dumb, but can they not open up the areas to the north and south of the gateways/walls? So that fans have a big 'plaza' style area at each 'end'? Is that possible? This would then allow the wall to be kept as is, with general maintenance around it.

Sort of. To the south we have Nelson dock. (where the arrow is pointing in the second pic of my first post today).
That WILL be a big plaza type place.
Problem is that it's also enclosed by the dockwall - to it's south is another dock that turns into a canal so is covered by a bridge. No entry that way.

To the north is a half tide dock and a working dockside (I think Wellington dock has been filled in now). But that wall stretches a long way north. There are plenty of gates and holes (in fact, there is a repaired part of the wall just to the north now:

(that gate in the background is the the green cross from earlier).

But it would start becoming financially unsound to buy/renovate longer and longer 'water-side-of-the-wall' pathways stretching off.

(Maybe the best thing we could do as Evertonians is to get our HGV licences and have 'accidents at strategic points in this wall.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:10:11 PM by Mick 1995 »

February 08, 2017, 08:33:14 PM
Reply #24

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
On another note, if we did somehow get permission to 'renovate' those turrets, how fucking awesome would they be as little Prince Rupert's towers?

February 08, 2017, 09:16:21 PM
Reply #25

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
They would be bigger I think but what about the old overhead railway maybe they could replicate that ,at least in principle to let the crowd out

Deffo going to need ideas like that i think.

I mean, Anderson and whatever fuckwhit is in parliament at the minute could strongarm local & whitehall planning bodies to allow us to knock down some of the wall. It is not 100% out of the realms of possibility - but it is so odd it would open up claims of bungs it would be so weird.

Them gates probably are bigger now you mention it. I don't actually think i've ever gone to Prince Ruperts tower, only driven past it.
Still, would look ace

February 09, 2017, 05:21:38 PM
Reply #26

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
They're pretty steep walls. You'd have to empty out any businesses between Regent Road & Fulton Street.

But as that currently looks like this:

I wouldn't be adverse to that haha.

In fact, clearing every other building out up until the Tai Pan would (from Walter Street to Boundary Street) is something i would whole-heartedly recommend to anybody asking.
(Except for the, you know, potential loss of jobs for the guys around there)

February 09, 2017, 07:42:49 PM
Reply #27

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
probably not

"listed" doesn't mean you can't do anything, it just means you have to do it properly and in a way that is sympathetic to the original architecture - and the decision is also based on the council, who thankfully proper love Everton

sort of.
The council grant planning permissions.
If there are any formal objections from sufficient people (or a recognised body) then it gets called into central government.

I Gaurantee that EH & CABE will go nuts over any plans to play about with the wall.

In a rare case of something shit working out for you though, a tory government couoldn't give a shit about people like unesco/cabe/eh so would greenlight it anyway.
If Corbyn fucks off and Labour get's it's act together before this planning permission then it may be a struggle.

I feel like crying when i think what these companies have done to Liverpool Waters' original plans based on buried dock walls.

@Ross , the world heritage site doesnt stretch that far north. It's to around about Princess dock

February 10, 2017, 01:48:02 AM
Reply #28

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
The world heritage site stretches far beyond the Princess dock Mick. It goes past Bramley-Moore as far as the dock boundry wall extends. Maybe you're mixing the UNESCO site up with a conservation area? But it was awarder for an a larger area than just the waterfront around the Three Graces.

You're right.i thought it stopped with the "pinch point" at princess dock.
So, add UNESCO to CABE & EH as organisations trying to stop this.

Dunno what this looks like. But there's an attached PDF with a map on
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 01:49:18 AM by Mick 1995 »

February 10, 2017, 03:55:01 PM
Reply #29

Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber

That bit on the imeediate left is where Peel wanted to knock through. Brings you out into Trafalgar dock (and would be perfect for an away fan gate.
It was a seperate application to the main one and i can't see news on the result anywhere.

The wall is from a different period and of a different material, but i dont think that matters in the grand scheme of things. It's all considered the same wall for planning purposes.

May consider asking the echo to follow up on that actually.