June 20, 2018, 01:22:03 AM

Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 262137 times)

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December 21, 2017, 05:22:58 AM
Reply #2580
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Thomas


Not in the middle of nowhere though is it, it's on the edge of the city centre, you're just being a fucking prick for the sake of it now.

Not at all, We are basically moving 3m away to the middle of nowhere. Where there are no pubs, virtually no people and no transport links.

If thats me being a prick, at least its not being deluded.


December 21, 2017, 05:24:12 AM
Reply #2581
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Thomas


I never understand how the same people who opposed Kirkby (which I did with KEIOC) are so passionately in favour of moving to a ground virtually in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure, pubs, shops or transport links yet they still maintain regenerating Goodison which already has all that in place would be a bigger problem.

Our fans basically developed an Overton window on this issue.If a fan disagrees about Bramley Moore, they are being a prick. Nothing else is to be considered. How dare i question this stadium move. Thats our Everton Overton Window.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 05:26:38 AM by Thomas »

December 21, 2017, 05:24:36 AM
Reply #2582
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Bally

Administrator


Show me/name me on, because I am unaware.

The reason one hasn't been done by the club is staying isn't profitable for them or nowhere near as much as moving because its harder to excuse whacking tickets up at our present ground than a new glossy one.

As I've said before I'dve half taken somewhere in Everton/Walton if sold as close to the pitch (I know there saying this but hey, West Ham said that so that means sod all) with a safe standing area (illegal under UK Law I know).

Look for them they're abiut aren't they why the fuck would I look, no one has looked at safe standing you're throwing all kinds of shit in that makes no fucking sense, we are not west ham, we are Everton we have needed to move for fucking years just because you aren't happy with it doesn't mean we should stay does it.
It's the roll I way


December 21, 2017, 05:26:43 AM
Reply #2583
Online

TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Where would you put a football stadium on fucking Scotty road?

You're moaning about a lack of regeneration in north Liverpool, yet you're ignoring the massive regeneration project in north Liverpool that will involve this ground.


December 21, 2017, 05:27:13 AM
Reply #2584
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Heisenberg


Imagine not building your stadium right next to town because 'theres no pubs' hahahaha jesus.

December 21, 2017, 05:27:53 AM
Reply #2585
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
I never understand how the same people who opposed Kirkby (which I did with KEIOC) are so passionately in favour of moving to a ground virtually in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure, pubs, shops or transport links yet they still maintain regenerating Goodison which already has all that in place would be a bigger problem.

Our fans basically developed an Overton window on this issue.If a fan disagrees about Bramley Moore, they are being a prick. Nothing else is to be considered. How dare i question this stadium move. Thats our Everton Overton Window.


You're tying yourself in knots spinning a web of contradictions here.


December 21, 2017, 05:29:53 AM
Reply #2586
Online

Gash

Global Moderator
Where there are no pubs, virtually no people and no transport links.

You do know what regeneration means don't you?

December 21, 2017, 05:30:03 AM
Reply #2587
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Jamokachi


Now you know how I feel. Leaving Goodison gets me down. As an Evertonian yourself you must be able to respect that.

For me it represents the rupture of my local club deserting itself from ordinary fans to become part of the usual band of clubs in big souless stadia that charge people top whack for the pleasure and dont give a shit about the fans.

Plus plenty of teams are now in the Championship with new stadia. Hull,Sunderland, Boro,Derby, the list goes on. I'd rather stay at Goodison and redevelop some of it and focus on getting results on the pitch and building a good side than this vanity exercise.

But all you're doing is focusing on the negatives. There is not one iota of positiveness in your outlook for the future.

The club has stated it's intent to redevelop Goodison into an area that will serve the community. Be that a community centre with green area, youth club(s), the expansion of the Free Everton School, it has yet to be determined. Turning their back on the community they are not. We are widely acknowledged to be a club that puts community first. Look at the amazing work our charity does. The head of which is now on the board of directors. Do you think she will have no influence?!

We've been over and over the redevelopment of Goodison. You claim no feasibility study has been carried out. Well maybe not publicly, but I guarantee the club have looked into it internally. How could they not? You only need eyes in your head to see that the footprint available around Goodison simply does not allow for the expansion that we need. And to expand that footprint is going to be both ridiculously expensive, as well as cause massive upheaval for local people and businesses.     

December 21, 2017, 05:30:09 AM
Reply #2588
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Bally

Administrator
Excerpts from a feasibility study I just found(look for it yourself)
EFC needs a new home – Goodison Park does not offer the modern facilities that many other
Premier League club grounds of Everton’s stature have. The current capacity of Goodison Park
is also limiting the ability of EFC to generate competitive match day revenues – EFC matchday
revenue for the 2011/12 football season was only a quarter of the top revenue generating club,
Manchester United, and less than half of their neighbours Liverpool FC (LFC).
1.5 Both EFC and LFC are extremely important to the City as major drivers of tourism and leisure
spend, significant employers as well as having huge fan bases in the local community – over 50%
of EFC season ticket holders live within the Liverpool City postcode area.
1.6 EFC and LCC have been in discussions regarding a new stadium site for over 10 years. Following
the demise of the most recent project involving a proposed move to Kirkby, an extensive search
for alternative sites within the city was undertaken and Walton Hall Park was identified as the site
that offered the greatest potential and one worthy of further exploration.
1.7 Together the joint proposition from EFC, LCC and LMH could form a regeneration schem
It's the roll I way

December 21, 2017, 05:30:13 AM
Reply #2589
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Thomas



Look for them they're abiut aren't they why the fuck would I look, no one has looked at safe standing you're throwing all kinds of shit in that makes no fucking sense, we are not west ham, we are Everton we have needed to move for fucking years just because you aren't happy with it doesn't mean we should stay does it.

Like I said, your attitude on this issue is typical of some of our fans. Its like an Overton Window. All's you do is get angry that your idealist idea of paradise in Bramley Moore MIGHT actually be the worst idea ever. Moving to a stadium without anything there, away from a stadium with all the infrastructure there already. Believe me I've been to stadiums like The Riverside/Reebok on desolate land with hardly anything there, they are no fun.

Nobody from the club has done a feasibility study into staying. Probably because moving suits them. At the moment I dont believe it suits fans. Its that simple. If me passionately believing that and sticking up for a stadium we call home makes me into a 'prick', sound.

December 21, 2017, 05:32:36 AM
Reply #2590
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Shropshire Blue

NSNO Subscriber
The City Centre has made huge strides. Everywhere else has not. Classic Doughnut effect.

Meanwhile everywhere else (particularly in North Liverpool) has been ignored. During evenings you have to wait 1 hour for a bus and many areas dont have train links and high amounts of people on free schools meals, yet the council talks about what a modern, thriving city we are. If you want student accommodation or to pay top whack to live in a pad in town, sure. Otherwise, no.

But basically, our fans have gone all corporate. Lets move away from our home, support a majority shareholder who makes fools out of all of us (Net Spend + his finances) and will charge us even more for the benefit all because we listen to Everton Business Matters too much and want Everton to be a business more than a football team.

Everton belongs in Walton/Everton area, not Bramley Dock. End of story.

This stadium move is like an emotional spasm. Wanting too much, too quick. Its completely hollow. It actually hurts me nobody seems to give a shit about Goodison or has uttered a word, maybe apart from @TheRam about it being a tough ask to move from there.

Chelsea are rebuilding Stamford Bridge, Spurs are essentially moving/remodelling to next door, why cant we?

Nobody has answered why we cannot do this or have not investigated it, nobody.
To pick up some of your points. Yes there are some clubs that are more football teams than businesses but you will find most are in non-league.
There is not the space to redevelop Goodison, a handful of people have claimed it can be done. Dozens and dozens more explain why it is not possible.
Like it or not we have to attract massive financial sponsorship etc in the future and a new stand out  ground gives us the platform to do that.
The Council is supportive but are hard headed enough to know where they will get most benefit before giving that support and they will be looking much further into the future than a football club.
I could go on but others can add to it if they want.
Like you I've never known Everton anywhere else other than Goodison, I have so many memories there and I'll be heartbroken to leave after the last game but the future is about creating more memories not hoping to live off past ones. Unromantic but realistic.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 05:33:54 AM by Shropshire Blue »
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

December 21, 2017, 05:36:44 AM
Reply #2591
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Thomas


But all you're doing is focusing on the negatives. There is not one iota of positiveness in your outlook for the future.

The club has stated it's intent to redevelop Goodison into an area that will serve the community. Be that a community centre with green area, youth club(s), the expansion of the Free Everton School, it has yet to be determined. Turning their back on the community they are not. We are widely acknowledged to be a club that puts community first. Look at the amazing work our charity does. The head of which is now on the board of directors. Do you think she will have no influence?!

We've been over and over the redevelopment of Goodison. You claim no feasibility study has been carried out. Well maybe not publicly, but I guarantee the club have looked into it internally. How could they not? You only need eyes in your head to see that the footprint available around Goodison simply does not allow for the expansion that we need. And to expand that footprint is going to be both ridiculously expensive, as well as cause massive upheaval for local people and businesses.     

I'll grant you that I'll be amazed the club haven't conducted a feasibility study, but the way board of directors are today you'll forgiven my tendential fatalism in surmising they probably ignored it anyway if it came back as 'possible' which it possibly could of considering the guy who designed Liverpool One thought we could do it.

@Jamokachi Don't get me started on the Free School. Criticizing that got one of our fans banned. I personally prefer Comprehensive Education not academies,free or private schools. But sticking to the football/stadium side of stuff....

People call me romantic when all's i see from them is cognitive dissonance, selective blindness and raw anger based on an overton window. Outside of that window is any questions about how utterly stupid it is to ask for all the plans, maybe they wont turn out as promised? This is EXACTLY what happened to West Ham. Particularly because they where doing it with Newham Council, just like we are with Liverpool City Council.

I'm happy to look at it the other way around as well ie Sheffield Wednesday. In a home they love but its a shithole and they are languishing in The Championship. I'm not saying moving will be a dystopia but I cant see it getting any better. Modern Football and our fans seeming lack of complaints about it do my head in.

December 21, 2017, 05:39:13 AM
Reply #2592
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Thomas


You do know what regeneration means don't you?

Yes, as yet I see no plans for the Walton area.

I also see little point in deserting it so one area can fall by the wayside whilst another can be gentrified.

December 21, 2017, 05:39:36 AM
Reply #2593
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Brownie20

NSNO Subscriber
I'll grant you that I'll be amazed the club haven't conducted a feasibility study, but the way board of directors are today you'll forgiven my tendential fatalism in surmising they probably ignored it anyway if it came back as 'possible' which it possibly could of considering the guy who designed Liverpool One thought we could do it.

@Jamokachi Don't get me started on the Free School. Criticizing that got one of our fans banned. I personally prefer Comprehensive Education not academies,free or private schools. But sticking to the football/stadium side of stuff....

People call me romantic when all's i see from them is cognitive dissonance, selective blindness and raw anger based on an overton window. Outside of that window is any questions about how utterly stupid it is to ask for all the plans, maybe they wont turn out as promised? This is EXACTLY what happened to West Ham. Particularly because they where doing it with Newham Council, just like we are with Liverpool City Council.

I'm happy to look at it the other way around as well ie Sheffield Wednesday. In a home they love but its a shithole and they are languishing in The Championship. I'm not saying moving will be a dystopia but I cant see it getting any better. Modern Football and our fans seeming lack of complaints about it do my head in.

What's wrong with the Free School? I've not heard any bad reports about it, only positives
[lightbox=image_url|title|group|float][/lightbox]  :cheers:

December 21, 2017, 05:40:58 AM
Reply #2594
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Thomas


What's wrong with the Free School? I've not heard any bad reports about it, only positives
https://www.teachers.org.uk/campaigns/freeschools