April 22, 2019, 11:01:32 AM

Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 386562 times)

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December 20, 2018, 11:20:29 PM
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Mick 1995

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December 20, 2018, 11:23:34 PM
Reply #211
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Mick 1995

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Everton say there have been “several factors” which influenced their decision to propose a 52,000 capacity for a new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

The Blues could eventually expand a new home to 62,000 but ahead of submitting a planning application in the second-half of 2019, the club's projections are lower.

Everton's accounts this week confirmed the capacity at Goodison is now at 39,221 which would mean a move to the waterfront would see a jump of just under 13,000 extra seats.

The club have 31,282 season ticket holders, every home seat was sold at Goodison last season and there are 10,000 fans on the waiting list.

But the club's number-crunching, and the advice of external experts, has needed to factor in projections on how many of those on the waiting list would take a season ticket if offered one.

Industry insiders refer to this as the 'conversion rate' and estimations show that not all on the list would take up the offer.

At this stage, and with the club saying a new ground would have the potential to grow, 52,000 is seen as a target capacity which would be reviewed in time if the demand was proven to be there.

December 20, 2018, 11:27:52 PM
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Mick 1995

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Seems sensible once you consider there's a high chance of safe standing legistlation being in place by the time the stadium is ready.

Meis has stated that safe standing would not increase capacity. Any future regs are likely to involve the same amount of space required for one person whether they are standing or seated.

There is a section of the ground that has been earmarked for safe-standing though.


December 20, 2018, 11:31:14 PM
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Mick 1995

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The club's Stadium Development Director, Colin Chong, said: “There is still much work to do as we refine our plans and seek the views of our supporters and local communities as well as bodies such as Liverpool City Council, the local planning authority and Historic England.

“At this stage, it is important to stress that this is our ‘proposed’ capacity and it is what we are currently working towards. It is important to emphasise that the final capacity and design will be subject to further engagement and consultation.”

The projected 52,000 capacity takes into account a series of factors which include design and orientation of the stadium on the Dock site, current and future ticket demand as well as forecast revenues and costs.

Everton have also confirmed that the stadium will also be “futureproofed” for any changes in regulations in relation to safe standing with the design of two stands making it easy to adopt a rail seating/safe standing solution.

Stadium architect Dan Meis said: “We know from all of the conversations we’ve had with fans that they want a stadium that is atmospheric, feels like a fortress and supports the players on the pitch. They also want the Club to be ambitious for the future.

“We believe this proposed approach to design and capacity meets with those aspirations.

“Our design and engineering approach will give us the potential to expand in the future. This will be done if and when we are at a stage where it is financially viable and fits with our key principles.”

The confirmation of the proposed capacity figure follows extensive engagement with fans and consultation with a range of advisors who have expertise in stadium design and defining the optimum capacity for new stadia.

A widespread public consultation was held into the club’s plans for Bramley-Moore Dock and the creation of a legacy at Goodison Park, in which questions on capacity of the new stadium were among the most frequently asked.

Everton say a second public consultation will be held in the summer when proposed designs of the stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock - and an initial overview of proposals for Goodison - will be presented.


The Blues intends to submit a detailed planning application for the stadium in the second half of 2019 and, at the same time, an outline planning application for the redevelopment of Goodison.

“We believe that our approach is the right one because it is commercially and financially sustainable and will mean that, in the long term, we will be able to increase the capacity should there be a demand and requirement to do so,” Chong added.

“Extensive work has gone into assessing the optimum capacity at the point of opening to create the best possible atmosphere for fans and, in turn, supporting the players on the pitch.”


December 20, 2018, 11:54:40 PM
Reply #214
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Mick 1995

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I thought 55k was the magic number myself. But knew the writing was on the wall for 52k when Meis was defending it last year.

62k is genuinely batshit crazy.

December 21, 2018, 12:02:32 AM
Reply #215
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Mick 1995

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Not sure how you claim to want to be challenging the top teams and bridging the divide in finances while planning to build a new stadium that’s significantly smaller than the clubs we say we want to compete with.



Because 10k empty seats wont help us catch the clubs above us either.
Stadium generated income is less and less relevant nowadays anyway.

make no mistake, they will have crunched the fuck out of the numbers and 52k will have come out as the number that maximises - to the penny - our profitibility.


December 21, 2018, 12:20:55 AM
Reply #216
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Mick 1995

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OK.

So, some number crunching using some Esk-level assumptions.

At the moment, surveys suggest our average season ticket holder pays £27.05 per match and we haev 32k of them.
Our average ticket costs £42 and we sell between 3&4k of them (not going to take into account away fans for this. So 35-36k is what we sell out now).
And take the 10k waiting list at face value (even though a fair few of the 3-4k general sales are probably people on that list).

Now that equates to £18.8-£19.6 million per annum.

BM @ 52k. So 42k season ticket holders, 5-6k general sale, the rest away fans. (Which i feel is a big ask after the new season bounce):
£25.5-£26.6m per annum

BM @ 62K. 42k season ticket holders & 15-16k general sale (no chance in my eyes):
£33.5-34.3m per annum


So, we're looking at as little as £6.9m per year difference for that extra 10k seats.
Never mind that being an almost irrelevant number in todays football world - the respect increase in build cost for them extra 10k seats means it would take multiple years to pay off anyway.

December 21, 2018, 12:52:52 AM
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Mick 1995

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Matchday spend would alter those figures @Martip and are definitely part of the thinking. But again, based on other revenue streams, it's low on the list of priorities.

Worth pointing out again. There is zero chance of more people being allowed into a standing section than the same square metered seating section. Capacity won't rise with standing.

December 21, 2018, 03:12:23 PM
Reply #218
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Mick 1995

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Few salient points here lads.

First of all, @Bluedylan & @Ross , i saw 52k and was disappointed. I deffo get where you are coming from. But my disappointment doesn't stand up to the cold hard facts (money) of the matter. I was hoping for 55k and so 3000 seats isn't something i'm going to dwell on.

Second, this 10k waiting list? It's supply and demand. There are people like me and @Brownie who have bought a season ticket even though it didn't make any sense at the time. There will be people who cant really afford it, cant really make it often enough due to locatio0n or work. But they'll get one now BECAUSE there's a waiting list.
I waited 2 years for my 2 season tickets @TheRam . The fact you now even hve to PAY to be on the waiting list says a lot.
But, a lot of them 10k will be people buying up our general sale tickets every other week. And many will be on it with a "i can't get one this year, but if there's a waiting list i should go on it as i want one in the vague future".
This all inflates that list.

There's one more consultation in the spring/summer @arteta4spain . With an idea of putting in planning permission next summer/autumn. Somewhere around then is when we're going to get the designs.

December 21, 2018, 05:41:01 PM
Reply #219
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Mick 1995

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ready to be operated formally as standing areas as and when government policy allows

Very specific language here. It's nigh on guaranteed and this is just a box-ticking exercise to appease those against it.

Quote from: Bingham Boy
and ready to take advantage of any future potential for increasing capacity in such areas.
This is genuinely new news. Everything official so far has indicated that this would be actively banned. Happy to hear that this isnt the case (and seeing as the club would have known about this before yesterday, it now may well mean that some of that extra 10k is with this in mind)

Quote from: Bingham Boy
In some scenarios it is possible that capacity will be reduced.
So won't be seeing this half-way house at Goodison then?

December 21, 2018, 11:49:58 PM
Reply #220
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Mick 1995

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It was someone tweeting Meis saying look at the odometer. It was 61878 (get it? Get it? It's like, the year we were founded with a 6 in front of it. Get it? How clever and funny is it? Hey? Hey?

Meis just laughed at the tweet.

In fact, I want less than 52k now I've been reminded of that fucking shite excuse for the capacity.

Knock some off and make it 51878 to please the cunts who dreamt that up.

April 15, 2019, 07:24:33 PM
Reply #221
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Mick 1995

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They showed the Liverpool waterfront on the opening of every single golf program when it was in Hoylake 2006. Well, they did on Caribbean television whilst i was there for it.

You guys complaining that it is not in Liverpool is a very odd statement to the rest of the world who couldnt give a fuck about local rivalries between boroughs.
The rest of the country even.

It's in Merseyside. Liverpool is in Merseyside. It's called Royal Liverpool.
It's all the same place to anybody who doesnt care about this local shit.

I doubt there is some Aussie in late June guffawing that the local channel is showing Big Ben in the opening sequence of Wimbledon because The houses of parliament aren't in SW19.

April 17, 2019, 03:28:36 PM
Reply #222
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Mick 1995

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This is why Kirkby filled me with dread.

Very rarely does a build seem as impressive as the CGIs. So the fact they had to tart the images up with spotlights (and it still looked drab) made me think we were getting a DW or something.