December 15, 2018, 07:15:05 AM

Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 339183 times)

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June 08, 2018, 07:37:15 AM
Reply #3675
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Bluedylan


I'm worried. More things should've been in place by now. They've already put it back once. I'm hoping the board restructuring helps to get things moving. I tend to tell people to stop worrying on most threads, cos a lot of it is just worrying for worrying sake and exaggerating stuff, but I think it's legitimate to be a bit concerned about this, for whatever that opinion is worth (nothing).
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


June 08, 2018, 07:41:10 AM
Reply #3676
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Lock the thread until the first Chang is pumped imo
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

June 08, 2018, 07:45:01 AM
Reply #3677
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Jamokachi


The only reason people are worried is because we live in an age of instant, constant information. When there's a period of quite, as there inevitably will be, people hit the panic button, for no apparent reason. There is nothing suggesting anything has changed, apart from the fact we've had a board re-structure, which is obviously going to complicate matters in the short term.

10 years ago no one would bat an eyelid if we hadn't had an update in a few weeks... which coincidentally we have. The club aren't going to pass on every detail to us the fans, and neither should they be expected to.

It's a massive, complex plan. Chill out and let's see how it develops.


June 08, 2018, 07:55:11 AM
Reply #3678
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Bluedylan


The only reason people are worried is because we live in an age of instant, constant information. When there's a period of quite, as there inevitably will be, people hit the panic button, for no apparent reason. There is nothing suggesting anything has changed, apart from the fact we've had a board re-structure, which is obviously going to complicate matters in the short term.

10 years ago no one would bat an eyelid if we hadn't had an update in a few weeks... which coincidentally we have. The club aren't going to pass on every detail to us the fans, and neither should they be expected to.

It's a massive, complex plan. Chill out and let's see how it develops.

Thanks. I needed that.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

June 08, 2018, 01:39:41 PM
Reply #3679
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Mick 1995

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Just to add, in response to the 'pushed back once' point there BD.
I think it is clear that there was a plan A & a plan B.

Plan A would have had Meis' designs on the table and spades in the ground by now. The plans would not have gone through that fans process, but would have been heavily influenced by LCC & atheltics type people as it would have been in conjunction with them for the Commonwealth games. This is the main reason Joe would have been able to force it through the council and get backing easy enough.

Plan B was the "fall back", Birmingham getting the games made this plan the reality. Back to the drawing board in terms of what the stadium looks like/does. Meis would have already been working piece-meal on these plans, but all of his prior effort would have been on the joint-use stadium. On top of that Anderson now has a harder sell to the council. the club have decided to bring in the fans for some aesthetics, further delaying final plans. On top of that we now look to be on the precipe of another financial market wobble and so prices for everything change day by day (which, @Ross , is why the question of 'what's changed in the last 18 months?' is redundant - the past is a different country).


Finally, the cost of this build (as does ALL major builds) goes up almost exponentially. a 350m budget to begin with was laughable. I happen to think the current 500m budget will be sailed past with ease as well and Moshiri is out and about looking for something more to the tune of 700m myself.
Don't forget, the council aren't lending us the entirety either, at current estimates their loan is still a few hundred million shy of budget - i think if we do take the council loan it will end up at 50% of total debt.

It's gonna be a while before we feel any financial uplift of this stadium (especially as we have minimal non-playing debt at the minute)

June 08, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
Reply #3680
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Is the UNESCO thing a worry, or can that be sorted with relative ease?


June 08, 2018, 02:03:16 PM
Reply #3681
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Simon Paul

Administrator
Is the UNESCO thing a worry, or can that be sorted with relative ease?
Doesn't need to be sorted if we have no money so it's not a concern

June 08, 2018, 02:04:56 PM
Reply #3682
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Toddacelli


Is the UNESCO thing a worry, or can that be sorted with relative ease?

From everything I've heard from press and previous posters (last time this was discussed about a year ago I think) it seems that UNESCO are anything BUT easy to deal with.

Having said that I just can't see how they can realistically stop anything - as long as we make certain compromises.

I mean - what the fuck is the point of a World Heritage Site no-one ever sees? Compare that to a World Heritage Site with tens of thousands of visitors every week seeing UNESCO all over special areas singled out for preservation. I'm sure someone can sell this version to them.

So - no facts here - just conjecture.

P.S. Yes I know I'm a hypocrite but I couldn't stay away  :)
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

June 08, 2018, 02:36:21 PM
Reply #3683
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Mick 1995

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Yeah, they're a worry.

Especially when the main players behind all of this revamp (Peel) are talking about knocking down some of the dock wall for better access to the just-started Princess dock phase of Liverpool Waters.

Shit loads of concessions have been made to UNESCO already (to the point Liverpool waters has gone from the biggest, most magnificent development in the world, to a bit of a shit docks regeneration program). They want it treated as a museum at the expense of development.

I can't see anyway past fucking off the world heritage status without accepting no buildings can ever be built between Mann Island & the tobacco warehouse.
So we'll fuck it off.

June 08, 2018, 02:41:40 PM
Reply #3684
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Hawkandro


Sounds like we are rightly exploring all avenues so we have a Plan B, C and D in place. Nothing wrong with that. We have waited long enough for a new ground, sure we can wait another year or two to get the deal right for us (and for Usmanov to sell his Arsenal shares).
Yes, we're being condescending. Yes, that means we're talking down to you.

June 08, 2018, 02:50:07 PM
Reply #3685
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Yeah, they're a worry.

Especially when the main players behind all of this revamp (Peel) are talking about knocking down some of the dock wall for better access to the just-started Princess dock phase of Liverpool Waters.

Shit loads of concessions have been made to UNESCO already (to the point Liverpool waters has gone from the biggest, most magnificent development in the world, to a bit of a shit docks regeneration program). They want it treated as a museum at the expense of development.

I can't see anyway past fucking off the world heritage status without accepting no buildings can ever be built between Mann Island & the tobacco warehouse.
So we'll fuck it off.

Would there not be major dissent from fellow councillors and the public if we got rid of that status?

June 08, 2018, 02:50:42 PM
Reply #3686
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Macca77


Not worth worrying about really, we've been here before, lessons have been learnt, I have no doubt whatsoever that we will be in Bramley Moore in a few years.

June 08, 2018, 02:52:17 PM
Reply #3687
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Alanvideo


Yeah, they're a worry.

Especially when the main players behind all of this revamp (Peel) are talking about knocking down some of the dock wall for better access to the just-started Princess dock phase of Liverpool Waters.

Shit loads of concessions have been made to UNESCO already (to the point Liverpool waters has gone from the biggest, most magnificent development in the world, to a bit of a shit docks regeneration program). They want it treated as a museum at the expense of development.

I can't see anyway past fucking off the world heritage status without accepting no buildings can ever be built between Mann Island & the tobacco warehouse.
So we'll fuck it off.
.......................this article from last week seems to suggest that the threat of losing World Heritage status has abated - or that's how I read it.
http://ymliverpool.com/council-welcomes-recommendation-to-keep-world-heritage-status/33704
We are special ,we are Everton.

June 08, 2018, 03:13:03 PM
Reply #3688
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
It wouldn't be our stadium that lost it, it would be the wider regeneration scheme and the feeling amongst the council is that Peel have already done and sacrificed enough. there was a bit of belligerence towards UNESCO a while back (jobs are more important than a plaque on a wall, to quote the ouncil).

Whether it was this belligerence, or the fact Peel have massively downscaled their plans, Unesco do seem to have been molified somewhat, as the artical @Alanvideo indicates.

Although, now Peel are pushing ahead with this, we should all pay close attention to it (if they can do it, you can bet we'll replicate it at Bramley-Moore):
https://www.liverpoolwaters.co.uk/new-grand-entrance-princes-dock-will-transform-accessibility-liverpool-waters/

June 08, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Reply #3689
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Brownie

NSNO Subscriber
The only reason people are worried is because we live in an age of instant, constant information. When there's a period of quite, as there inevitably will be, people hit the panic button, for no apparent reason. There is nothing suggesting anything has changed, apart from the fact we've had a board re-structure, which is obviously going to complicate matters in the short term.

10 years ago no one would bat an eyelid if we hadn't had an update in a few weeks... which coincidentally we have. The club aren't going to pass on every detail to us the fans, and neither should they be expected to.

It's a massive, complex plan. Chill out and let's see how it develops.

Went through all this with the Millennium Stadium and we didn't have social media back then. Everyone just needs to chill
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