November 24, 2017, 06:50:05 PM

Author Topic: In January  (Read 2673 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

September 24, 2010, 09:54:53 PM
Reply #15
Offline

.Rimbo.


So overall its Moyes's fault. Not Bilyaletdinov's which is a shame because he is the person who will get all the stick for it. He is the sort of player who could take us into the top 4 but Moyes is hopeless at using him. We probably wont see the best of him because of it. I mean it took him 5 years to move Arteta into the middle  :headbang:

Thing is mate, Moyes isn't leaving. Not with Kenwright in charge.

If it were me, I would put Heitinga at the back with Jagielka and get Donovan on loan.

Moyes isn't going to do that though so I'm thinking of something Moyes could feasibly do.

deCoubertin

September 24, 2010, 09:59:01 PM
Reply #16
Offline

C-R-A-I-G


Thing is mate, Moyes isn't leaving. Not with Kenwright in charge.

If it were me, I would put Heitinga at the back with Jagielka and get Donovan on loan.

Moyes isn't going to do that though so I'm thinking of something Moyes could feasibly do.

What your forgetting is Moyes is also stubborn. I think he would keep Bilyaletdinov till he is either definatly a flop or proves people wrong. Sort of like what he did with Van Der Meyde.

September 24, 2010, 10:11:22 PM
Reply #17
Offline

.Rimbo.


I just don't know where Moyes' bollocks have gone anymore. I said in pre-season he had to be bold to reap the rewards. He's being far too cautious and it's restricting us.


September 24, 2010, 10:11:58 PM
Reply #18
Offline

dekko


bla bla bla
yet another very intelligent thread.

September 24, 2010, 10:29:10 PM
Reply #19
Online

blueski


I'm also a bit nostalgic about that Jags Lescott partnership but one great outing for England doesn't change the fact that Lescott has been injury ridden since he's left us - was out for at least a third of their fixtures last season. Now just when you think he might get a run in the side he's out again. For me, it was good business and if we want a left footed centre half to replace Distin we should look elsewhere unless City give him to us, which they won't.
Nil Satis

September 24, 2010, 11:05:40 PM
Reply #20
Online

GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
Bily is a wide midfield player. Why won't people accept this?

He's better off coming from deep as nearly all of his best assets involve him facing the opposition goal. Playing him behind the fron man would require him to have his back to goal which so far doesn't appear to be a strength at all.

To play off the front man, you either need tremendous energy and work rate or really quick feet, but preferably both. Bily has neither of these.

That doesn't mean he isn't technically good, he clearly is. But he needs to be coming onto the ball which is easier to do if there are at least 2 other forward players distracting the defence.

He needs to improve his ability to shield the ball and he needs to develop a method of gaining a yard of space.

When he does that, we'll see a very useful player.


September 24, 2010, 11:22:18 PM
Reply #21
Offline

cantoffee


Thats what happens to wide players. I remember the same thing with Arteta. Once he was moved to the centre he became a real influence. Bilyaletdinov needs to be getting played behind the striker to get the best out of him. He is not a winger so why play him there. Even thought last season he was involved in 19 goals he still wasnt a starter. This season he has bearly played and got 1 assist for Coleman. I dont think its his confidence or talent at all. Moyes wont play him due to his work rate alone in my opinion. He would rather have a talentless grafter on the pitch than him which is a shame.

He's a wide midfielder, not a central midfielder. He's not a winger, but we don't play with wingers, our fullbacks overlap which gives us our width and our "wide midfielders" can tuck in or play down the line. Bily has never played behind the striker, and I don't think he'd have what it takes to play there in the prem, his feet are too slow and he's indecisive. Not to mention Cahill's probably been our best/most influential (in a positive sense) player this season.

September 24, 2010, 11:27:23 PM
Reply #22
Offline

ToxtethBlue


I actually think he could play a similar role to someone like Lampard, as a drifitng playmaker, but someone who faces the play more often than not, rather than someone like Totti who plays with his back to goal. But whilst he has the ability and style to play that role he doesn't seem to have the energy and workrate that Lampard provides Chelsea, and that's a big part of the role.

I don't think we have a centre forward who can play without a player close to him either, and our formation is very much a 4-4-1-1 with a second striker, rather than three central midfielders. Even Yakubu, who's very pretty complete, but to do it on your own, you need to be top class in a number of areas. Pace, constant movement and Aerial ability help.

He is a wide player, and can play there effectively, but you have to question whether two playmaking wide players benefits the team as much as a pacy player (Donovan, Anichebe) and Pienaar. Especially when we also have the playmaking qualities of Arteta in central areas. That, more than anything, is what holds him back really, he wasn't what we needed at the time, despite being a capable player.

We'll see how it goes, he's still got until January to have a real go at it and make a position his own.
ToxtethBlue

September 24, 2010, 11:48:52 PM
Reply #23
Offline

.Rimbo.


He's a wide midfielder, not a central midfielder. He's not a winger, but we don't play with wingers, our fullbacks overlap which gives us our width and our "wide midfielders" can tuck in or play down the line. Bily has never played behind the striker, and I don't think he'd have what it takes to play there in the prem, his feet are too slow and he's indecisive. Not to mention Cahill's probably been our best/most influential (in a positive sense) player this season.

I think we understand the system that Moyes tries to employ. It's sound down the left because Baines gets up and down the line say 15 times a game.

But to say we play with two overlapping full-backs isn't really true. When we play with Osman on the other side the problem is we haven't got a full back with the energy and work rate to match Baines on the other side. The right back doesn't get up half as quick or consistently as Baines and hence it doesn't work.

If you are going to play with a more defensively-minded full back on the right you're going to need a winger who hugs the touchline more, a la Donovan. As Tocky says, he's clearly a capable player but he wasn't what we needed at the time, he still doesn't really fit in and he's not exactly staking a claim for a starting place at the moment either.

September 24, 2010, 11:49:21 PM
Reply #24
Offline

SKay3


Sell osman anyone?

September 24, 2010, 11:55:58 PM
Reply #25
Offline

.Rimbo.


Sell osman anyone?

To who? No-one would give more than 5 for him and he's still a very capable player in the middle. If Moyes only has right wing plans for him though we may as well flog him tomorrow for anything we can get. I'd take 20 peng and a bag of maltesers.

To raise the money we need to look at sellable assets. Who are they? Howard, Baines, Jagielka, Heitinga, Fellaini, Arteta, Bilyaletdinov, Yakubu. (left out Pienaar for length of contract).

I wouldn't like to lose any of those other players over Bilyaletdinov. The others are all proven players and all should be consistent first-teamers.

September 24, 2010, 11:57:55 PM
Reply #26
Offline

brap2

NSNO Subscriber
well i think, some people just make things up.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

September 25, 2010, 12:48:33 AM
Reply #27
Offline

cantoffee


To who? No-one would give more than 5 for him and he's still a very capable player in the middle. If Moyes only has right wing plans for him though we may as well flog him tomorrow for anything we can get. I'd take 20 peng and a bag of maltesers.

To raise the money we need to look at sellable assets. Who are they? Howard, Baines, Jagielka, Heitinga, Fellaini, Arteta, Bilyaletdinov, Yakubu. (left out Pienaar for length of contract).

I wouldn't like to lose any of those other players over Bilyaletdinov. The others are all proven players and all should be consistent first-teamers.

You left out Rodwell, probably our most sellable asset. Honestly, I think if we'd sold Rodwell this summer for 20m sorted our right side out and brought in some players to provide competition in other areas we'd have a really good chance at a top 4 spot. I'm not saying that's the best decision, but if we're looking at this season as being our chance with Pienaar going after this year unless we do really well it may not have been a terrible decision. That being said, we didn't sell him, and I don't think we should sell him now as we're struggling a lot more we expected.

September 25, 2010, 12:53:03 AM
Reply #28
Offline

.Rimbo.


You left out Rodwell, probably our most sellable asset. Honestly, I think if we'd sold Rodwell this summer for 20m sorted our right side out and brought in some players to provide competition in other areas we'd have a really good chance at a top 4 spot. I'm not saying that's the best decision, but if we're looking at this season as being our chance with Pienaar going after this year unless we do really well it may not have been a terrible decision. That being said, we didn't sell him, and I don't think we should sell him now as we're struggling a lot more we expected.

Sorry yes, forgot about Rodwell.

I wouldn't be against selling one of Rodwell/Fellaini if it meant improving the team in other areas.

September 25, 2010, 01:00:21 AM
Reply #29
Offline

ToxtethBlue


That's probably what will happen sadly, although it's not the end of the world, as the Lescott deal proved.

Fellaini still has a bit to do (in terms of consistent performances) to raise big money, I think, being foreign he doesn't quite have the overhyped repuation Jack Rodwell has. That's not to say Rodwell is very talented, he is, but like every English player they are bigged up alot more.

We have enough saleable assets to get by.
ToxtethBlue