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Author Topic: Blarg summed it up for me  (Read 9295 times)

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December 01, 2010, 12:38:13 AM
Reply #60
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Verm

NSNO Subscriber
Admittedly I don't remember that much of the Smith/Walker eras compared to most on here but I could flip that on it's head and say maybe you lot have distorted views on the current progression of the team having see those days. I, however, don't constantly compare it to those areas so I know more clearly when we are grossly underachieving.

This all over.

"..whenever i see an everton shirt i think there goes an everton fan. whenever i see a liverpool shirt i think there's someone wearing a liverpool shirt.."

deCoubertin

December 01, 2010, 12:42:05 AM
Reply #61
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Scouse Ruletero


No, it's not fickle is it. Or was it fickle last season and the season before that (start)?

He'll come through and make us finish 8th, which will mean we'll be out of Europe and be grossly underachieving, considering the squad is capable of 4th.

I wouldn't mind if we finished 5th or 6th and lost out to pure quality from other sides, but this squad doesn't even look like a team at the moment. For that, it all comes back to Moyes.

Do you not think it comes back to the players as well, arguably as much and maybe more so than Moyes?

These players are boss. These players are great. Arteta is wonderful, We gave him a record breaking contract. We didn't sell Pienaar in the summer (maybe we should have but that's another thread). We handed new deals to Cahill (who has done great - 8 goals so far), Rodwell (who has been injured), Coleman (who when given his chance has done well, overall), and Baines. Everything was 'set up' for a top 4 challenge.

What has happened? The players have vastly underachieved, that's what. Arteta's form has been shocking. Is Pienaar's mind elsewhere, especially now? Why doesn't he like to shoot? Johnny Heitinga gets worse and worse with each passing game. Moyes has clearly given up on Bily, given that he's playing Coleman on the right and Pienaar on the left. Howard looks shaky, and Jags has been off form. Saha does nothing and is almost as bad as Heitinga.

Moyes showed faith in his players. He didn't sell anyone. He handed out new deals. He's loyal to a fault with certain players. And yet he gets s*** on from a great height by a few of them. Sure, Moyes tactics are poor at times, as are his tactical changes. But is this any different from previous seasons? No, the difference this season is that certain players aren't playing for him, for whatever reason, and that's just plain sad.

The situation can be easily turned around, but Moyes needs to act decisively in January. History has shown that Moyes is capable of acting fast and being ruthless when he wants to be (departures of Kroldrup and Jo in previous Januarys, for different reasons, has shown that.

It's hard, but faith is needed at this point, as bad as things seem.

As for Moyes making people fall out of love with Everton, well.... Moyes made many thousands fall back in love with Everton in the 2000s. I'd suggest that the likes of blarg are falling out of love with 'modern football' as a whole, rather than Everton per se. Either that, or letting a bad start to the season affect their judgement.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 12:45:08 AM by Scouse Ruletero »

December 01, 2010, 01:43:25 AM
Reply #62
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
Yes he does, it would be daft not to give Moyes a large part of responsibility in here recent form.  He gets the plaudits so yes when things are wrong he is not beyond criticism either.  It comes down to your belief in whether Moyes can turn it around and then if you think he can take us beyond were we have been.  I think he can but the board seems split on it. 


December 01, 2010, 01:56:25 AM
Reply #63
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
I agree that he and this team are stuck in a rut.  Saddled with expectation he, the players or both seem to come unstuck.  The board need to back him with funds in January but it won't happen.  Without any I feel sorry for the bloke 65K or not.  Unless he does another Houdini this season the Moyes Out chants will be on the lips of fans before Kenwright's is.  Sad and very wrong but true.

December 01, 2010, 02:15:10 AM
Reply #64
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Stumpy


Yup i'm sorry to say that's spot on,we are stuck in a rut and looking stale.We badly need to get a couple in in january to freshen things up,but as silas said there's no fucking chance with kenwright and his pocket money financing.I'm clinging to the hope that Landon will come back for a second spell and maybe scrounge somebody who knows how to stick the ball in the net or at least have a go at shooting outside the box.I've had nothing but good to say about moyes from day one,but it's time for him to stand up and do something about this declining situation.

December 01, 2010, 02:47:47 AM
Reply #65
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Ridge


I think Moyes is currently in the most important part of his progression as a manager. He may have been here a while and brought the players in, but their roles are changing and we are trying to step forward as a different side.

This season, we have looked to control games, impose our style and dominate possession. For past years we have been calling for this progression, to be less direct, patient and with a more technical interchange of passing. On the whole we have controlled games, but we have been caught out the other end, on the break too many times. So many games after 70 minutes, we've had 55% possession or more, 20 odd shots vs 2 or so shots and been losing.

You can pin all the blame on Arteta as he is the one we are possibly expecting to do more killer passes or create chances. But you need at least a couple of players that can do it, as many teams have limited us further by closing Arteta all the time. When that happens, you need players like Pienaar to step in, you need strikers to keep getting in good positions and when you create a chance, bury it once in a while.

Teams have been doing to us, what we have been doing to other teams for years. Soaking up pressure, then using the space at the other end to fashion a chance to take the lead, then protect it.

Without enough guile in the last third, from more members of the team and good movement upfront, we have become somewhat toothless. I think bringing Saha back in, was reverting to type, he doesn't always move to link with midfield as often and often looks isolated, waiting for a half chance to feed him. But getting back to winning form, from a different style isn't a quick transformation.

I think saying Moyes should have learned by now how to have players performing a more controlling style, is expecting too much. He excelled getting a team to perform with a backs to the wall mentality, but that doesn't mean he should know how to make a team play like Barca.

We don't always have the variety options of other teams, but there are some which I would rather we didn't employ but may work short term as a plan b. Fellaini going upfront with Cahill to use the aerial threat, use Vic and Coleman on the wing as more direct players to make something happen. Bringing Pienaar more centrally to have a wider range of options to create a chance, or even moving Cahill back and using Beckford as the attacking midfielder who joins the striker upfront.


December 01, 2010, 03:59:54 AM
Reply #66
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Confucius

NSNO Subscriber
I made a thread before the start of the season talking about how I don't know if our squad has the ability to perform with pressure and especially the pressure of expectation. i remember being shot down then. Fact is, our squad does not have the mental fortitude to succeed. The blame for that is both management and players.

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December 01, 2010, 11:01:17 AM
Reply #67
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Thomas


I think Moyes is currently in the most important part of his progression as a manager. He may have been here a while and brought the players in, but their roles are changing and we are trying to step forward as a different side.

This season, we have looked to control games, impose our style and dominate possession. For past years we have been calling for this progression, to be less direct, patient and with a more technical interchange of passing. On the whole we have controlled games, but we have been caught out the other end, on the break too many times. So many games after 70 minutes, we've had 55% possession or more, 20 odd shots vs 2 or so shots and been losing.

You can pin all the blame on Arteta as he is the one we are possibly expecting to do more killer passes or create chances. But you need at least a couple of players that can do it, as many teams have limited us further by closing Arteta all the time. When that happens, you need players like Pienaar to step in, you need strikers to keep getting in good positions and when you create a chance, bury it once in a while.

Teams have been doing to us, what we have been doing to other teams for years. Soaking up pressure, then using the space at the other end to fashion a chance to take the lead, then protect it.

Without enough guile in the last third, from more members of the team and good movement upfront, we have become somewhat toothless. I think bringing Saha back in, was reverting to type, he doesn't always move to link with midfield as often and often looks isolated, waiting for a half chance to feed him. But getting back to winning form, from a different style isn't a quick transformation.

I think saying Moyes should have learned by now how to have players performing a more controlling style, is expecting too much. He excelled getting a team to perform with a backs to the wall mentality, but that doesn't mean he should know how to make a team play like Barca.

We don't always have the variety options of other teams, but there are some which I would rather we didn't employ but may work short term as a plan b. Fellaini going upfront with Cahill to use the aerial threat, use Vic and Coleman on the wing as more direct players to make something happen. Bringing Pienaar more centrally to have a wider range of options to create a chance, or even moving Cahill back and using Beckford as the attacking midfielder who joins the striker upfront.

Really good post that. Agree with much of it.

December 01, 2010, 12:42:05 PM
Reply #68
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nomorechang

RIP
I too agree with much of Ridge's very good post , it has actually struck me that a lot of " lesser " teams seem to have modelled themselves on a previous incarnation of ourselves . One thing I might add to this is our normally weak right hand side has lately been bolstered by a Nev/Seamus combination , this was not there on Saturday...  .. coincidence?
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 01, 2010, 12:52:54 PM
Reply #69
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Haile GAZrselassie


Ridge's post is an excellent one. But the fact remains Moyes needs money. Blarg should have said Kenwright is making me fall out of love with Everton, not Moyes. It's a sad fact of modern football you dont compete at the top end of the league without money. It's this that's making me fall out of love with football full stop.

Look at some of the players we have been linked with in the past that have bags of flair but deep down we knew we wouldn't be signing them because of a lack of funds.

I still maintain that we're a top class finisher away from being where we know the squad is capable of being.

You put someone like David Villa, Drogba or Higuain in the positions Beckford has found himself in recent weeks and we're sat in 4th or 5th imo.

Fernando Llorente at Athletico. Kenwright should pull out all the stops and throw caution to the wind and give Moyes the 15 or 20m euros needed to sign him and we'd be a different proposition.
Stealth ya flaming galargh!!!

December 01, 2010, 01:20:51 PM
Reply #70
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nomorechang

RIP
Ridge's post is an excellent one. But the fact remains Moyes needs money. Blarg should have said Kenwright is making me fall out of love with Everton, not Moyes. It's a sad fact of modern football you dont compete at the top end of the league without money. It's this that's making me fall out of love with football full stop.

Look at some of the players we have been linked with in the past that have bags of flair but deep down we knew we wouldn't be signing them because of a lack of funds.

I still maintain that we're a top class finisher away from being where we know the squad is capable of being.

You put someone like David Villa, Drogba or Higuain in the positions Beckford has found himself in recent weeks and we're sat in 4th or 5th imo.

Fernando Llorente at Athletico. Kenwright should pull out all the stops and throw caution to the wind and give Moyes the 15 or 20m euros needed to sign him and we'd be a different proposition.

Spot on . conversely if you gave Moyes Man City's squad with the league as it is currently IMO citteh would be miles ahead by now ..
If at the start of the season Moyes was looking for a striker does anyone honestly think Beckford was his 1st choice ? had he been able to outbid Sunderland for Gyan we'd be in the top 4 now
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 01, 2010, 04:11:52 PM
Reply #71
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.Rimbo.


Irrelevant if he's misusing the strikers he does have at his disposal though isn't it?

Yes, with a Drogba or a Villa we could be sitting 4th but without one we should still be in the top half, and actually looking dangerous in games.

December 01, 2010, 04:38:12 PM
Reply #72
Online

Bob Sacamano


Irrelevant if he's misusing the strikers he does have at his disposal though isn't it?

Yes, with a Drogba or a Villa we could be sitting 4th but without one we should still be in the top half, and actually looking dangerous in games.

But how?

If Yakubu and Saha are finished its really that simple, no amount of man management can bring something dead back to life.

December 01, 2010, 04:42:59 PM
Reply #73
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
The striker thing is a good point.  I had high hopes for Yakubu this year but if he doesn,t get back to what he was we simply don,t have the class up front.  With a shot shy midfield it is a wonder we are scoring at all.

December 01, 2010, 04:54:07 PM
Reply #74
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nomorechang

RIP
Irrelevant if he's misusing the strikers he does have at his disposal though isn't it?

Yes, with a Drogba or a Villa we could be sitting 4th but without one we should still be in the top half, and actually looking dangerous in games.

why is it irrelevant that our strikers are not playing well ? As bad as the RS are playing Torres has hit a little bit of form , grabbed a few goals fron nothing and won games that they should never have got anything out of , thats why great strikers cost vast amounts of money , If you can pluck one out of the air for nothing like Saha , it's prudent to give him time on the pitch to hope he regains that form , If Moyes had not have tried to get him back up to pace it would just have given the wingeing crew something different to try to discredit him
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "