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Author Topic: Blarg summed it up for me  (Read 9962 times)

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December 01, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Reply #75
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Sprooly


yak was coming good then got dropped for the bolton arsenal and sunderland games which was the worst thing imo, im still willing to give him time as he has been very good in some games this season

i think saturday really summed up our season imo, dominated early west brom score on there first venture forward then the game comes more even but then brunt scores a great free kick (which if that had of been baines we would be been calling world class instead of bagging the keeper)

then we a get goal back and should of really been 2-2 when all heitinga had to do was touch the ball,

what happens 2nd half? we create chance after chance (which mostly fell to becks) waste them and west brom score with basically there only 2 shots at goal


i think atm we are in a bad spell of luck and we need to be able to be good enough to change that around


December 01, 2010, 05:11:19 PM
Reply #76
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.Rimbo.


So Yakubu wasn't playing well against the likes of Fulham, Birmingham, Stoke and Liverpool?

To my eyes he was man of the match in at least two of those games and scored in another one. Then, after one average game against Blackpool he was unceremoniously dropped for a French fanny who hasn't done a jot since February, and hasn't looked close to scoring.

To me, it's really simple. Yakubu is the type of player who needs a run of games to get going (remember when he first joined the club?), he eventually got those games as opposed to last season where he could only get substitute appearances. If Moyes would've stuck with Yakubu after that then I'm sure the goals were coming, as were many others I do believe.

Okay, so you don't want to play Yakubu. The very game after Beckford pulled him out of the shit against Bolton he was dropped for Saha, too.



December 01, 2010, 05:23:19 PM
Reply #78
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Sprooly


So Yakubu wasn't playing well against the likes of Fulham, Birmingham, Stoke and Liverpool?

To my eyes he was man of the match in at least two of those games and scored in another one. Then, after one average game against Blackpool he was unceremoniously dropped for a French fanny who hasn't done a jot since February, and hasn't looked close to scoring.

To me, it's really simple. Yakubu is the type of player who needs a run of games to get going (remember when he first joined the club?), he eventually got those games as opposed to last season where he could only get substitute appearances. If Moyes would've stuck with Yakubu after that then I'm sure the goals were coming, as were many others I do believe.

Okay, so you don't want to play Yakubu. The very game after Beckford pulled him out of the shit against Bolton he was dropped for Saha, too.

Yakubu was BRILLIANT againest fulham he tore Hangeland (who is a very good defender) a new one by his sheer strength and footballing ability and apart from Schwarzer having a good game and one going just wide he could of had a hattrick

December 01, 2010, 05:27:59 PM
Reply #79
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nomorechang

RIP
So Yakubu wasn't playing well against the likes of Fulham, Birmingham, Stoke and Liverpool?

To my eyes he was man of the match in at least two of those games and scored in another one. Then, after one average game against Blackpool he was unceremoniously dropped for a French fanny who hasn't done a jot since February, and hasn't looked close to scoring.

To me, it's really simple. Yakubu is the type of player who needs a run of games to get going (remember when he first joined the club?), he eventually got those games as opposed to last season where he could only get substitute appearances. If Moyes would've stuck with Yakubu after that then I'm sure the goals were coming, as were many others I do believe.

Okay, so you don't want to play Yakubu. The very game after Beckford pulled him out of the shit against Bolton he was dropped for Saha, too.

Yet again , you can't accept that Moyes sees these players every day in training and up until the WBA game he used Saha , based on what has gone on at Finch Farm , you have not got a clue what has happened during these training sessions
 .. dont you think you're shooting yourself in the foot with Beckford ? Off the top of my head I can think of 5 easy chances he's missed in the last 2 games but it suits you to forget them , chances that have cost us points . I think Beckford will come good eventually but putting him in from the start of games when he's clearly not ready is totally counterproductive
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 01, 2010, 05:31:32 PM
Reply #80
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.Rimbo.


Yet again , you can't accept that Moyes sees these players every day in training and up until the WBA game he used Saha , based on what has gone on at Finch Farm , you have not got a clue what has happened during these training sessions
 .. dont you think you're shooting yourself in the foot with Beckford ? Off the top of my head I can think of 5 easy chances he's missed in the last 2 games but it suits you to forget them , chances that have cost us points . I think Beckford will come good eventually but putting him in from the start of games when he's clearly not ready is totally counterproductive

Mate, I just don't buy into this 'he sees them every day in training' shite. If Moyes was seeing Saha play amazing in training every week (which I highly, highly doubt he is), if he consistently failed to show up in 6 months of matches he should be dropped regardless. It's just a mute point, no I don't see what goes on in training and neither do you. What we both do we see is abject performance after abject performance on the pitch by Saha, and that's all we have to go off. As I've said, if he was constantly showing up in training and not on the pitch then he doesn't warrant a start. It's that simple, you're going to ridiculous lengths to vindicate Moyes' selection of Saha again.

And isn't it counterproductive to replace him the following game for a finished Saha when it's going to do no good for the lad's confidence? Okay, he's missed five chances but he still has faith in his own ability and all it needs is one or two to go in and I believe that we would start to see a fair few from the lad. However, that's just opinion. What isn't opinion is that we look more dangerous with either Yakubu or Beckford on the field than we do with Saha there.


December 01, 2010, 05:45:01 PM
Reply #81
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nomorechang

RIP
Mate, I just don't buy into this 'he sees them every day in training' shite. If Moyes was seeing Saha play amazing in training every week (which I highly, highly doubt he is), if he consistently failed to show up in 6 months of matches he should be dropped regardless. It's just a mute point, no I don't see what goes on in training and neither do you. What we both do we see is abject performance after abject performance on the pitch by Saha, and that's all we have to go off. As I've said, if he was constantly showing up in training and not on the pitch then he doesn't warrant a start. It's that simple, you're going to ridiculous lengths to vindicate Moyes' selection of Saha again.

And isn't it counterproductive to replace him the following game for a finished Saha when it's going to do no good for the lad's confidence? Okay, he's missed five chances but he still has faith in his own ability and all it needs is one or two to go in and I believe that we would start to see a fair few from the lad. However, that's just opinion. What isn't opinion is that we look more dangerous with either Yakubu or Beckford on the field than we do with Saha there.

We can argue all day long which is the best option .. it won't make any difference , against WBA , all 3 played and they were all shite which brings me back to my original point that the problems lies far more with Kenwright's lack of ability to provide any meamingful funds than it does by Moyes's choice of non scoring forward
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 01, 2010, 09:42:27 PM
Reply #82
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nomorechang

RIP
So Moyes has signed 2 strikers with proven strike records in the Premier League and can't get them to score for Everton anymore

He's taken a punt on a striker known for his goalscoring further down the leagues in a bid to replace them and it's failed

Moyes is playing Saha ahead of Yakubu because the Yak wanted to leave in the summer and did all he could to secure a move which in the end didn't happen.  Yak is the better of the two, and everything except "possibly" what goes on behind closed doors has shown this.

Moyes is once again being stubborn and picking a player over another because of non-footballing reasons.  THIS is his major downfall for me.  He needs to realise that winning games is much more important than his own ego and pick Yakubu.

David Moyes simply can not work with anyone with a superstar personality, a player who needs to be indulged to get the best out of, or a player who needs "loving" - it's not in his repertoire, and after 10 years in management you have to say that it probably never will be.  He's not that kind of man.  And he doesn't seem to employ coaches or staff who are capable of it either.

Steve Round is a mini-me for Moyes and that seems to be why he got the job.  Moyes needs a direct opposite to his own personality in training for it to work.  There needs to be a "good cop" at Finch Farm somewhere to counter-balance Moyes' "bad cop" act.

I can agree with this to a point .... Moyes is definitely not the " arm around the shoulder " type of manager , he does expect his players to be as dedicated as he is . Is this a weakness ? It does limit him in the range of players who he's going to get the best out of , the counter argument being that if the club is prepared to pay these " kids " vast amounts of money then he should not have to encourage them to earn it .
Players do have a temporary loss of form , or they don't display the attitude that is expected not just by the manager but the fans as well , not just our players , for example SAF has had problems throughout his 24 years at Utd but he's had the option of just shipping out players of the ilk of Beckham , Stam , Keane , Van Nistelroy and his recent spat with Rooney is a case in point . I actually think Moyes would have got a great stint out of Bellamy because their attitudes to the game are somewhat similar and I also think thats why him and Cahill are so mutually beneficial and why he sticks with Neville so much ... Good or Bad ? Is it to much to expect kids who are being made millionaires to have the right attitude ? I stand on Moyes's side of the fence , but then I can understand that some players do need handling differently and Moyes does not have this quality in his repetoire , but that doesn't make him a bad manager , Pricks like Heitinga enfuriate me so much , it's also why I always have a soft spot for Hibbo and Ossie , not the greatest of players but you know that both of them go on that pitch giving 110% at least , often thats not enough but you can bet your Arse that they are as unhappy about a bad performance as we all are ..
He gave a lot of leeway to one player , one who could have become a legend if he'd shown his true ability for any length of time , VDM , The way that arsehole fleeced the club could have really affected his attitude , Possibly the biggest let down for me in any player in the last 10 years and I suspect the same for Moyes .
Do I think Moyes will change ? No , Do I think he should ? No .... but maybe Si is right that he could use a different assistant ... Alan Irvine maybe ?
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 01, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
Reply #83
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
I would say the difference between Moyes and Ferguson is experience and age tbh.  Moyes is still a rookie.  Not in the Everton job but in Premier league management stakes he is.  Moyes isn't an uber Manager by any stretch and it is yet to be seen whether he can steer this team with it's meagre resources to anything beyond what he has. 

December 01, 2010, 11:32:25 PM
Reply #84
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Haile GAZrselassie


Alan Irvine is just as dour and miserable as Moyes though

We missed a trick by never employing Bobby Robson to help Moyes.  Universally loved (except for Shearer and Bellamy) and a real people's person, someone who would make players feel important and loved.  We need someone like him.

Van der Meyde?  In the last two years of his deal he told anyone who would listen that he was fit and was making himself available to the manager.  He wasn't picked, despite us having no solution down the right side of the pitch.  Giving him too much leeway?  Doesn't sound like it to me.  Could VDM's body have handled being picked on a regular basis?  Who knows, he never got the chance to break down in the last two years of his time at Everton, while his daughter was seriously ill in hospital.  But he made himself available, according to him.

As for Bellamy, wasn't there a story about him not signing for us because of Moyes?  Something along the lines of Moyes only wanting to talk about his achievements at Everton?

The difference between Ferguson and Moyes is that he got the best out of those players and sold them on at a massive profit.  Moyes just refuses to pick players and runs down their contracts.

Moyes needs his players to be world beaters AND dedicated, which very rarely happens.  So, he can either work with dedicated players who aren't good enough to win things, or world beaters who need a bit of tolerance every now and then.  Sadly he'll plump for the first one every single time.

Was this ever on the cards? I seem to remember it being mooted at one point and if it was ever truly an option someone somewhwre has dropped an almighty bollock not mkaing use of Sir Bobby's experience.

He could have taught Moyes an unbeleivable amount about man management and being able to massage big players ego's to enable him to get the best from them.

VDM should have been given more of a run in the side during those last 6 months imo. he was clearly fit but Moyes would never be big enough to swallow his pride or let bygones be bygones in order for us to use an unquestionably talented player. The problem he had with VDM imo was that he wasn't wliing to run about like a dick'ed for 90 minutes chasing lost causes. Good players dont do that as they know it ultimately gets them nowhere and when the time comes to chase down a stray backpass or something they're too fucked to do so. It's about using your brain.

He's a very, very good manager. But he has a long way to go till he becomes an excellent one.

Id love to see him with 50m under his arm for a season or two. Because then we would all find out what he's like given the chance to compete with the likes of Mancini, Ferguson, Ancellotti etc etc and if he doesn't do the business then we can get rid of him knowing once and for all that he doesn't have the nous and talent to be able to achieve good things with big money and that he is after all pretty much a one trick pony.
Stealth ya flaming galargh!!!

December 02, 2010, 12:07:20 AM
Reply #85
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nomorechang

RIP
Si . you ain't going to buy worldbeaters with the money made available to Moyes ,
VDM was as slow as fuck when he did get a chance and he hasn't lit the world up since he left us  I can assure you Moyes had good reason not to trust VDM , even when his daughter was ill , I witnessed him firsthand when he was a bit " tired and emotional " nice guy  but this guy was taking 25k + a week off the club to do this ... Sorry him telling people he was fit and being good enough to play for a good Premier League team on a regular basis doesn't hold water and you can hardly blame Moyes for that , maybe it's my age but prima donna the attitudes of some players really piss me off , Even going back to the 80's our players liked to socialise , some to extreme but they always put a shift in where it mattered , Some of the gobshites now measure their ability by the size of their mansion , a Prem players phallic symbol ? Don't forget , its us who pay their obscene wages , expecting them to earn them is not too much to ask and just because some off them are a little bit sensitive and spit the dummy out because the boss doesn't massage their inflated egos doesn't really wash with me

Alan Irvine comes across as dour and miserable in his TV interviews , He was Moyes's go between before he left , the man between himself and the players , who was a very popular figure , Steve Round is exactly as you described him .. Mini Moyes .. I don't think he'd be missed if he went , As much as I dislike the idea of having to kiss the arse of some namby pamby crybaby millionaire , I have to concede that sometimes its neccesary , I also have to concede that Moyes or Mini Moyes can't do that job .. I'd like to think that when Round goes his replacement is recruited with this in mind
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 02, 2010, 12:43:50 AM
Reply #86
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nomorechang

RIP
It's all very well saying "they earn millions why do they need their egos massaging" but it's just a fact of modern-day football

It's wrong but that's the way of the world and if you don't play the game you don't win

Moyes almost got it right with Ferguson, by making him captain, but then the captain wanted the voice of a captain and they fell out...

He is just too stubborn to work with these players and if he can't work with them he will always be putting teams out against them, and ultimately, they'll beat him.

I know it's a fact of modern day football , can't get away from that and I find it sad . I find it sad that a great guy who you know well felt he had to set up the Former Players association because there were heroes to many who were in serious ill health or financial difficulty and in one extreme case , Warren Aspinall , attempted to end his life whereas now a 19 yr old kid can be driving around in a car that cost as much as my house . It is a fact of modern day football but I can't blame Moyes for not buying into that , don't forget as a player he chose to leave Celtic and took a step down in order to play football , whilst studying for his coaching badges from when he was 22 yrs old .He doesn't have to prompt Cahill or Neville to put the effort in on the pitch , happily , Jack Rodwell looks to have the same ethos . Ok , he will never be the " arm around the shoulder " boss ... but then you cannot put the responsibility for that player totally on him .. surely the player has to take some responsibility ?
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 02, 2010, 12:45:34 AM
Reply #87
Online

Confucius

NSNO Subscriber
It's all very well saying "they earn millions why do they need their egos massaging" but it's just a fact of modern-day football

It's wrong but that's the way of the world and if you don't play the game you don't win

Moyes almost got it right with Ferguson, by making him captain, but then the captain wanted the voice of a captain and they fell out...

He is just too stubborn to work with these players and if he can't work with them he will always be putting teams out against them, and ultimately, they'll beat him.

There is definitely something happening behind the scenes for us to be doing this badly. Moyes is a wonderful manager but things are getting a little stale now. We need new blood. Man United always got new players etc while keeping the same manager. I can't see a squad overhaul. I can see a manager change though.
Farhad Moshiri, Alisher Usmanov, Cenk Tosun, Muhamed Besic, Idrissa Gana Gueye, Ademola Lookman, Oumar Niasse, David Henen, Barack Hussein Obama, Confucius... Everton Muslims growing stronger...

December 02, 2010, 12:51:01 AM
Reply #88
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nomorechang

RIP
There is definitely something happening behind the scenes for us to be doing this badly. Moyes is a wonderful manager but things are getting a little stale now. We need new blood. Man United always got new players etc while keeping the same manager. I can't see a squad overhaul. I can see a manager change though.

It'll have to be him who walks though ... Kenwright would never sack him , financially he's worth far too much to the club.. as long as he keeps pulling gems like Seamus out of the hat he's worth his weight in gold , we don't even know what Gueye is like yet but going on rumour he's another little diamond
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 02, 2010, 12:56:06 AM
Reply #89
Online

Confucius

NSNO Subscriber
It'll have to be him who walks though ... Kenwright would never sack him , financially he's worth far too much to the club.. as long as he keeps pulling gems like Seamus out of the hat he's worth his weight in gold , we don't even know what Gueye is like yet but going on rumour he's another little diamond

Unearthing gems is one thing, but has that got more to do with our scouting network than the manager himself. Wouldn't he make more money for the club by winning a trophy or higher league placing, going further in European and cup competitions. I am also not denying what he has done here is amazing but his job ultimately is to get us into Europe and challenging for trophies. He is unfortunately not doing that.
Farhad Moshiri, Alisher Usmanov, Cenk Tosun, Muhamed Besic, Idrissa Gana Gueye, Ademola Lookman, Oumar Niasse, David Henen, Barack Hussein Obama, Confucius... Everton Muslims growing stronger...