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Author Topic: Blarg summed it up for me  (Read 9965 times)

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December 02, 2010, 01:02:37 AM
Reply #90
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nomorechang

RIP
Unearthing gems is one thing, but has that got more to do with our scouting network than the manager himself. Wouldn't he make more money for the club by winning a trophy or higher league placing, going further in European and cup competitions. I am also not denying what he has done here is amazing but his job ultimately is to get us into Europe and challenging for trophies. He is unfortunately not doing that.

Nearly £20m profit on Lescott is not a bad return , about 3x more than we earned for getting to the FA Cup final , Unfortunately the only managers who are winning trophies at the moment are SAF , whoever's in charge of Chelsea and Arry , the common denominator is a very large amount of money to spend on  squads that has already cost many millions to assemble
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "


December 02, 2010, 01:07:28 AM
Reply #91
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Confucius

NSNO Subscriber
Nearly £20m profit on Lescott is not a bad return , about 3x more than we earned for getting to the FA Cup final , Unfortunately the only managers who are winning trophies at the moment are SAF , whoever's in charge of Chelsea and Arry , the common denominator is a very large amount of money to spend on  squads that has already cost many millions to assemble

Besides Lescott, who have we sold? Vaughan is going to leave for under a million. How much on insurance, coaching, wages, medical bills etc have been pain on him and many others like him. Yes we have made some money in the transfer market but many managers can do that. We want to win things
Farhad Moshiri, Alisher Usmanov, Cenk Tosun, Muhamed Besic, Idrissa Gana Gueye, Ademola Lookman, Oumar Niasse, David Henen, Barack Hussein Obama, Confucius... Everton Muslims growing stronger...

December 02, 2010, 01:11:33 AM
Reply #92
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Scouse Ruletero


Who signed them?

Who coaches them?

Who tells them what tactics to play?

Why is it that a number of these players suddenly aren't performing?  One or two could be their own attitude problems or lack of form, but the amount in our side that aren't performing would be way too much of a coincidence for it just to be them.

Moyes needs to accept responsibility for players who were good enough for an FA Cup Final and a fifth place finish now looking like they'd be lucky to get in a Championship side

Okay, look at this logically.

Arteta is playing shit. Why? Moyes pushed the boat out and got him to sign a new lucrative contract. Arteta has played for Moyes for 5 years. Why is Arteta suddenly playing shit? Is Moyes really to blame for the loss of one man's form? Do you seriously think the manager has suddenly changed his coaching methods this season?

Heitinga is playing shit. He has played shit for months. He has the unbelievably annoying habit of talking to papers in his own country and linking himself with a move away. He has done this 4 or 5 times in the last 12 months. He wants to play centre half. He's too small to play centre half. Plus he's right footed, and Moyes wants a left footer on the left of Jags. Seems a perfectly reasonable plan from Moyes to me. So Moyes plays him in midfield. Heitinga plays shit and has a titty lip. And this is Moyes fault? Moyes is only guilty of being loyal to the guy. How dare Moyes play the guy!

Louis Saha is playing shit. Moyes got him to sign a lucrative new contract in February. Saha has done f*** all since. In what universe is this possibly Moyes' fault, given that Moyes has been loyal to him?

Tim Howard has made several notable mistakes. Moyes has resisted the urge to drop him in favour of Mucha. Howard has repaid him with seemingly one costly error every 5 games.

Are there any more culprits I've left out?

If you'd read my post properly, you'd have noticed I wrote 'Sure, Moyes tactics are poor at times, as are his tactical changes.'

But why is Moyes to blame for the loss of form of the majority of the same players who, as you say, finished 5th and reached a Cup Final not too long ago? Unless you are privvy to what goes on in the dressing room and Finch Farm, on the surface, it is the players blatantly letting Moyes down, and not the other way around. If you honestly think Moyes doesn't take the situation we're in seriously, or that he isn't taking responsibility for the situation that we're in, then you don't seem to have learned anything from the many things we've learnt about Moyes over the past 8 years. Let's not demonise Moyes like certain people did with Royle in early 1997, eh?


December 02, 2010, 01:18:12 AM
Reply #93
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Confucius

NSNO Subscriber
Okay, look at this logically.

Arteta is playing shit. Why? Moyes pushed the boat out and got him to sign a new lucrative contract. Arteta has played for Moyes for 5 years. Why is Arteta suddenly playing shit? Is Moyes really to blame for the loss of one man's form? Do you seriously think the manager has suddenly changed his coaching methods this season?

Heitinga is playing shit. He has played shit for months. He has the unbelievably annoying habit of talking to papers in his own country and linking himself with a move away. He has done this 4 or 5 times in the last 12 months. He wants to play centre half. He's too small to play centre half. Plus he's right footed, and Moyes wants a left footer on the left of Jags. Seems a perfectly reasonable plan from Moyes to me. So Moyes plays him in midfield. Heitinga plays shit and has a titty lip. And this is Moyes fault? Moyes is only guilty of being loyal to the guy. How dare Moyes play the guy!

Louis Saha is playing shit. Moyes got him to sign a lucrative new contract in February. Saha has done f*** all since. In what universe is this possibly Moyes' fault, given that Moyes has been loyal to him?

Tim Howard has made several notable mistakes. Moyes has resisted the urge to drop him in favour of Mucha. Howard has repaid him with seemingly one costly error every 5 games.

Are there any more culprits I've left out?

If you'd read my post properly, you'd have noticed I wrote 'Sure, Moyes tactics are poor at times, as are his tactical changes.'

But why is Moyes to blame for the loss of form of the majority of the same players who, as you say, finished 5th and reached a Cup Final not too long ago? Unless you are privvy to what goes on in the dressing room and Finch Farm, on the surface, it is the players blatantly letting Moyes down, and not the other way around. If you honestly think Moyes doesn't take the situation we're in seriously, or that he isn't taking responsibility for the situation that we're in, then you don't seem to have learned anything from the many things we've learnt about Moyes over the past 8 years. Let's not demonise Moyes like certain people did with Royle in early 1997, eh?

What you forget to mention is that it is the managers job to drop players who are not performing for those who are. By your own admission he is playing players out of position(and expecting them to succeed) and playing out of form players just because they have been around for a long time or on big money contracts. Part of being a manager is making the tough decisions. Moyes is definitely not making them but hoping things fix themselves.
Farhad Moshiri, Alisher Usmanov, Cenk Tosun, Muhamed Besic, Idrissa Gana Gueye, Ademola Lookman, Oumar Niasse, David Henen, Barack Hussein Obama, Confucius... Everton Muslims growing stronger...

December 02, 2010, 01:20:21 AM
Reply #94
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Scouse Ruletero


From what you're saying, those players are playing shit despite Moyes being loyal to them.  Seems like they've got no respect for him if that's the case.

How has he lost their respect if all he's done is be the perfect boyfriend, I mean manager, to them all?

2003/2004.
August 2005 to January 2006.
August 2008 to October 2008.

Players play shit and let their managers down from time to time.
It happens. Thankfully history has shown we haven't sacked Moyes every time the players let him down.

The things that Moyes needs to do can't actually be done until next month, and even then it may not be entirely in his hands.

A quicker way of things turning around can be found by looking at the players.

December 02, 2010, 01:23:07 AM
Reply #95
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Scouse Ruletero


What you forget to mention is that it is the managers job to drop players who are not performing for those who are. By your own admission he is playing players out of position(and expecting them to succeed) and playing out of form players just because they have been around for a long time or on big money contracts. Part of being a manager is making the tough decisions. Moyes is definitely not making them but hoping things fix themselves.

I agree with that.

I've said all along in other threads that Heitinga, Saha and Arteta should be dropped, and that Coleman, Rodwell and Beckford should be given runs in the side.


December 02, 2010, 01:35:59 AM
Reply #96
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arteta4spain


Is it possible that Moyes has lost the dressing room? Having seen our performances and players playing out of position and being shite, have they lost faith in him?
The team has looked dishevelled all season. other players seeing out of form players getting picked week in week out. Think it will have pissed them off and might have spilled out into the dressing room with them airing their feelings? This is just a thought but who knows?   

December 02, 2010, 01:42:23 AM
Reply #97
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arteta4spain


If's but's and maybe's innit! We'll never know, maybe if heitinga/pienaar leaves in jan there might be some lifting of lids so to speak? It just baffles me due to last seasons form and this? as you say si its possible that "why should i try if they arent?" so in that essence Moyes would have lost the dressing room! 
Thanks for the password reset by the way  :thumbsup:

December 02, 2010, 01:54:50 AM
Reply #98
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nomorechang

RIP
What you forget to mention is that it is the managers job to drop players who are not performing for those who are. By your own admission he is playing players out of position(and expecting them to succeed) and playing out of form players just because they have been around for a long time or on big money contracts. Part of being a manager is making the tough decisions. Moyes is definitely not making them but hoping things fix themselves.

I agree but seeing as only about 4 of our players are performing as they should then he has to make difficult decisions , he is making those decisions but its only really with hindsight that they may be deemed as wrong ones . Our season really has swung on our inability to score enough goals .. not helped by our 3 main strikers scoring 2 goals between them , as much as it doesn't fit the "we're doomed " argument we have dominated most games we've played in this season , this is despite key players not contributing what is expected , Arteta , Jags , Fucking Heitinga , our main culprits so I have no doubt we can turn this around ... we were playing far worse this time last season , we managed to recover our form before Jags and Mikel returned from injury . I'm hoping that Fellaini and Donovan can add the spark that can charge the team up , another 2 class players who don't need to be pandered to in order to perform ... Yes ultimately It's down to Moyes but none of the players he's picked to play this season are really bad players , the teams he's picked have all been capable of beating whats in front of them and as far as I'm concerned they have let themselves , the club , the manager and the fans down
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 02, 2010, 02:56:38 AM
Reply #99
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Father Mcnulty


Would Everton still be in the Premiership had Moyes not taken over? My guess is yes.
Would we have qualified for Europe with another manager? Why not?
Would we still have a good set of players? Again I say yes.

Too much credit is given to a man who has done what his contract stated he must do. If he goes, so what. If he stays, so what. Just start rediscovering what made you popular in the first place you negative clueless disappointing cry baby of a manager.

Everton is a club, and has been one of the biggest names in English football since football began. If you want to stay as manager, then pull your socks up. Many are eager to do the job if you don't want it. Just don't think you are doing a good enough job at the moment, because you are not.

I can't remember the last time I was at the edge of my seat, with nails bitten and heart pumping. I miss that about Everton. Get it back or piss off back to the Championship.  :thumbsup:

December 02, 2010, 03:00:51 AM
Reply #100
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
Would Everton still be in the Premiership had Moyes not taken over? My guess is yes.
Would we have qualified for Europe with another manager? Why not?
Would we still have a good set of players? Again I say yes.

Too much credit is given to a man who has done what his contract stated he must do. If he goes, so what. If he stays, so what. Just start rediscovering what made you popular in the first place you negative clueless disappointing cry baby of a manager.

Everton is a club, and has been one of the biggest names in English football since football began. If you want to stay as manager, then pull your socks up. Many are eager to do the job if you don't want it. Just don't think you are doing a good enough job at the moment, because you are not.

I can't remember the last time I was at the edge of my seat, with nails bitten and heart pumping. I miss that about Everton. Get it back or piss off back to the Championship.  :thumbsup:

You have no idea whether we would have done any of the things Moyes has.  Someone else might have done better but then we could have had another Mike Walker.  Moyes needs to turn things around but give him some credit for assembling what on paper was considered by all of us a great squad. 

With the same funds as Moyes are the odds high another Manager would have done better up this point?  No they are not.  Whether Moyes has come to the end of his road is a reasonable question but for me, what he has done for the club isn't questionable.

December 02, 2010, 03:09:09 AM
Reply #101
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nomorechang

RIP
Only time will tell , it's grossly unfair to lay all the blame at Moyes's door , he's probably worked harder than anyone to re establish our club . I've no doubt that he's aware of his responsibilities . I've also no doubt that he's sure enough in his own ability to turn us around .... because when the day arrives that he thinks he can do no more , he will be honest and open enough to admit it and walk away
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 02, 2010, 03:09:12 AM
Reply #102
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Father Mcnulty


You have no idea whether we would have done any of the things Moyes has.  Someone else might have done better but then we could have had another Mike Walker.  Moyes needs to turn things around but give him some credit for assembling what on paper was considered by all of us a great squad. 

With the same funds as Moyes are the odds high another Manager would have done better up this point?  No they are not.  Whether Moyes has come to the end of his road is a reasonable question but for me, what he has done for the club isn't questionable.

What has he won mate?

Europa qualification from 5th to 7th place.
European championship qualification once in 8 years only to be destroyed at the first hurdle.

I think it's important to remember this. The guy has done a decent job, and fair play to him, but we are in our biggest trophy drought in our history. Is he not responsible for the negatives as well as the positives?

Just like any player, he gets applauded when he succeeds and dropped when he fails. If Moyes were a player he'd be in the reserves at the moment.

That is the brutal truth. We all like him, but he isn't doing a good job. Anyone who says he is needs help.


December 02, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
Reply #103
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nomorechang

RIP
What has he won mate?

Europa qualification from 5th to 7th place.
European championship qualification once in 8 years only to be destroyed at the first hurdle.

I think it's important to remember this. The guy has done a decent job, and fair play to him, but we are in our biggest trophy drought in our history. Is he not responsible for the negatives as well as the positives?

Just like any player, he gets applauded when he succeeds and dropped when he fails. If Moyes were a player he'd be in the reserves at the moment.

That is the brutal truth. We all like him, but he isn't doing a good job. Anyone who says he is needs help.


#

Bollocks , he's never in nearly 9 years been given a fraction of the funds that the perennial trophy winners have had at their disposal plus many teams that have never been above us during his tenure ... Not forgetting the squad he took over was shite wheras his contemporaries have just had to add to squads that are previous multi trophy winners ...

If any manager could do what Moyes has done with little or no money why haven't they ? The clown fromacross the park before Woy was given a CL winning team .. £150m to spend and he still fucked it up . Money has been no object for Citteh for a few years now and they've won ...... zilch , got to a semi final and a 5th place , Arsenal havent won a trophy for 5 years despite being told by the media that Wenger is the best thing since sliced bread ...

Get real it's not those of us who see his positive talents who need help
Once Everton has touched you nothing will be the same"
Alan Ball

" Notoriously shy and laconic off the field, Dean's quotes are sparse. He is reputed to have said to an over-enthusiastic marker 'I'm going for a pee. You coming?' "

December 02, 2010, 03:39:37 AM
Reply #104
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Father Mcnulty


#

Bollocks , he's never in nearly 9 years been given a fraction of the funds that the perennial trophy winners have had at their disposal plus many teams that have never been above us during his tenure ... Not forgetting the squad he took over was shite wheras his contemporaries have just had to add to squads that are previous multi trophy winners ...

If any manager could do what Moyes has done with little or no money why haven't they ? The clown fromacross the park before Woy was given a CL winning team .. 150m to spend and he still fucked it up . Money has been no object for Citteh for a few years now and they've won ...... zilch , got to a semi final and a 5th place , Arsenal havent won a trophy for 5 years despite being told by the media that Wenger is the best thing since sliced bread ...

Get real it's not those of us who see his positive talents who need help

If I win salesman of the year 5 years runing, I will no doubt gain a reputation of being the best there is. If, for the following years I do nothing in particular, then my performances have obviously not been of the same standard.

Moyes bought great players on the cheap ( as well as a few flops if we're honest).
He took us to Wembley.
He took us to Europe.

Basically, he brought Everton back up to the standards we expect, but for the past few seasons he has been taking us back to where we were before we hired him.

We can't allow Everton to have a slump like we had in the days before Moyes.

We have 2 choices. 1: Moyes raises his game and we remain competetive. 2: Moyes doesn't, we become mediocre, and he gets sacked.

We're not Moyes fans. We're Everton fans. We just happen to embrace all those associated with our club. There has to be a line drawn though on when the time comes to move on. Moyes is close to that line now.