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December 31, 2010, 01:33:42 AM
Reply #30
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Silas

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Even on top form Arteta and Pienaar are of similar quality and I personally think the only difference between the
Pienaar has a place in the team for the foreseeable future on the left wing.

If we keep Rodwell and he reaches potential soon where will Arteta play? I'd say on the right but he doesn't like it there and Rodwell and feliani are the future of our center midfield.

Offer him parity and get rid of jonny - that would give us a small cash injection plus it would ensure we keep 50% of our creative outlet.

I think the difference between the two when both on form is that Arteta scores goals.

deCoubertin

December 31, 2010, 01:45:16 AM
Reply #31
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philly


I think the difference between the two when both on form is that Arteta scores goals.

It's not as though he hits the high numbers for a midfielder - plus I think Pienaar provides more creativity from open play - finally Arteta's greed means that baines does not get enough of a chance from dead ball situations, even from positions that are more suited to him.

I really like Arteta but I think the team has to accommodate him rather than him fitting into the team and we are currently playing better without him.
Bily No Pace (07/10/2011): I try an inspire people through my subject lines, the way I look at it is a director's comment for every post I make, just a little insight into my world.

December 31, 2010, 01:47:55 AM
Reply #32
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Silas

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It's not as though he hits the high numbers for a midfielder - plus I think Pienaar provides more creativity from open play - finally Arteta's greed means that baines does not get enough of a chance from dead ball situations, even from positions that are more suited to him.

I really like Arteta but I think the team has to accommodate him rather than him fitting into the team and we are currently playing better without him.

This season I couldn't argue for one minute but I think people are underselling his contribution prior to this year.  I am not saying Pienaar isn't as valuable but I do think it is in a different way.  Arteta at his best is far more clinical whereas Pienaar at his best is probably the ultimate team player.  However, they both frustrate me in different ways.


December 31, 2010, 02:00:50 AM
Reply #33
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Tony Clifton


I don't get all this crap about wanting to 'win things' and 'having ambition' or wanting to play champions league.  All this stuff is trotted out so regularly that people just accept it.   It's like this myth that only the best make it because they have some insatiable desire to be the best.  Bullshit.

Pienaar seems to have settled in a country and city.  He gets paid loads for kicking a ball around with his mates.  What more do these freaks want?

I'm actually not arsed anymore.  Pienaar's scoring record is pathetic.  True he is a nice player to watch and puts a shift in blah blah blah.  I would like us to play him centrally and see what he can do.  And despite all this I would still rather he stayed.

His goalscoring record is disappointing, but hardly pathetic...  FFS, everybody else in the squad has been banging them in regularly for years haven't they... ?  :whistle:  

Being "a nice player to watch" (ie creative) and putting in a shift (plus often covering the "shift" of some of his teammates) counts for a hell of a lot with me, as it does with most fans I'm sure.  He's been our most consistent performer for a few seasons now, hardly missed a game (he must do his own thing in training, thank God ;)), and is obviously passionate about his football, and football in general, which is why I tend to believe him a lot more than most when he talks ambition.  He's pretty much been nothing but refreshingly honest since the contract issue first came up (the best part of two years ago now?).  That also counts for a lot.  He'll be sorely missed.

December 31, 2010, 02:05:30 AM
Reply #34
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philly


This season I couldn't argue for one minute but I think people are underselling his contribution prior to this year.  I am not saying Pienaar isn't as valuable but I do think it is in a different way.  Arteta at his best is far more clinical whereas Pienaar at his best is probably the ultimate team player.  However, they both frustrate me in different ways.

I think that Arteta is a key reason as to where we are today but this shouldn't guarantee him a place in the center of midfield based on his current form. In 3yrs where will arteta fit into the team? Pienaar will still be on the left but I doubt Arteta will be happy giving up his place in the middle of the park to link up with Sergio Coleman on the right. I just think Pienaar is what we need now and Arteta was what we needed.
Bily No Pace (07/10/2011): I try an inspire people through my subject lines, the way I look at it is a director's comment for every post I make, just a little insight into my world.

December 31, 2010, 02:10:50 AM
Reply #35
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Silas

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I think that Arteta is a key reason as to where we are today but this shouldn't guarantee him a place in the center of midfield based on his current form. In 3yrs where will arteta fit into the team? Pienaar will still be on the left but I doubt Arteta will be happy giving up his place in the middle of the park to link up with Sergio Coleman on the right. I just think Pienaar is what we need now and Arteta was what we needed.

I think a lot of people are saying that though purely on his performances this season.  If he was playing like he can do, him Fellaini and Rodwell would be the central midfield dreams are made of.  If he does hit form again (and I honestly think he will), it will be minutes before people start singing his name and backtracking (not talking about you in particular Phil).

Pienaar is as valuable to this team as Arteta but I could see both of them in our future for the next few years and think they are could both be the players to bring us success.  The problem at the moment is that people are comparing them as if it should be a case of picking one over the other.  They offer different things to the team but I don't think of either of them as less worthy of a place.


December 31, 2010, 02:18:44 AM
Reply #36
Online

Trowel


The annoying thing is Arteta has had two, maybe two and a half, seasons at top form for us, and the rest of the time he's spent long periods playing average at best. Pienaar has been consistently good, while rarely outstanding.

However, it can't be ignored that Arteta is an ambassador for the club while I can't remember too many moments where Pienaar has been our public face.
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December 31, 2010, 02:25:58 AM
Reply #37
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philly


I think a lot of people are saying that though purely on his performances this season.  If he was playing like he can do, him Fellaini and Rodwell would be the central midfield dreams are made of.  If he does hit form again (and I honestly think he will), it will be minutes before people start singing his name and backtracking (not talking about you in particular Phil).

Pienaar is as valuable to this team as Arteta but I could see both of them in our future for the next few years and think they are could both be the players to bring us success.  The problem at the moment is that people are comparing them as if it should be a case of picking one over the other.  They offer different things to the team but I don't think of either of them as less worthy of a place.

I'd love to play 4-5-1 and get all three of them into the middle but that would mean no Cahill who is our only freescoring midfielder. Im not saying we need to pick one over the other but I think it's just natural to compare them as they are our two creative player and the comparison was made by Pienaars agent at the start of the season.

It may be controversial but after watching Rodwells actions in Southport nightclubs nearly every week I'd be more inclined to cash in on him and keep them both but I know that's not happening...
Bily No Pace (07/10/2011): I try an inspire people through my subject lines, the way I look at it is a director's comment for every post I make, just a little insight into my world.

December 31, 2010, 02:34:49 AM
Reply #38
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blargins

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I think that Arteta is a key reason as to where we are today but this shouldn't guarantee him a place in the center of midfield based on his current form. In 3yrs where will arteta fit into the team? Pienaar will still be on the left but I doubt Arteta will be happy giving up his place in the middle of the park to link up with Sergio Coleman on the right. I just think Pienaar is what we need now and Arteta was what we needed.

In three years, both will be in their early 30's and I hope we would be looking to replace them.
"All the adversity I've had in my life, all my troubles and obstacles, have strengthened me... You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
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December 31, 2010, 02:36:50 AM
Reply #39
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Les Trebilcock



 Pienaar still at Everton in 3 years ?





You can take that to the bank.

December 31, 2010, 02:41:29 AM
Reply #40
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philly


Pienaar still at Everton in 3 years ?

hypothetical comment as we were discussing each players value to the teams future.
Bily No Pace (07/10/2011): I try an inspire people through my subject lines, the way I look at it is a director's comment for every post I make, just a little insight into my world.

December 31, 2010, 02:48:08 AM
Reply #41
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
I'd love to play 4-5-1 and get all three of them into the middle but that would mean no Cahill who is our only freescoring midfielder. Im not saying we need to pick one over the other but I think it's just natural to compare them as they are our two creative player and the comparison was made by Pienaars agent at the start of the season.

It may be controversial but after watching Rodwells actions in Southport nightclubs nearly every week I'd be more inclined to cash in on him and keep them both but I know that's not happening...

Aye well Rodwell's development has become a concern for me this season.  He is getting game time now but he isn't stepping it up like I imagined.  Of course he is still very young but I hope he isn't going to let himself down.  Arteta needs to get back to form tbh because the lad could do with some time off the pitch.

December 31, 2010, 02:49:09 AM
Reply #42
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Les Trebilcock


hypothetical comment as we were discussing each players value to the teams future.


 Ah.

 Everton's future is Baines, Rodwell, Coleman - and should include Fellaini, and Beckford. Then again, who knows with Moyes at the helm.


You can take that to the bank.

December 31, 2010, 05:42:45 AM
Reply #43
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JoeHart


It would be a real shame if Fellaini was not at the centre of our future.

For me he has more potential and ability than Rodwell, I think given the right training and development, he is the one member of our squad who COULD become world class or close to it.

Realistically, I forsee him leaving on a free in 18 months time. With his dad as his agent making noises about bigger clubs with ambition, I suspect he wont be waiting around for Kenwright to die (the only way we are ever going to get sold and develop as a club).
Everton forever

December 31, 2010, 06:41:45 AM
Reply #44
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BlueSte


In three years, both will be in their early 30's and I hope we would be looking to replace them.

Hence selling Roswell is a no goer


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