January 19, 2018, 09:54:14 PM

Author Topic: Mason Holgate  (Read 6638 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

April 25, 2017, 12:30:16 AM
Reply #30
Offline

Ross


But thats where a stat can be misleading at face value. I dont know I've not checked, but I'd guess that Holgate played a lot more short backwards passes to centre halves than baines did on Saturday and Coleman does generally. Baines will try passes into forwards feet for instance that are about 30-40 yard passes, which is harder to complete than giving it to Gueye or Jags inside.

He is a good passer for a centre half Holgate, played 2 lovely balls to Baines from the half way line so his passing isnt something I'm worried with if he becomes a centre half. My concern with him is if he is going to play at full back, you look at full backs at the top end of clubs and they move forward well with the ball. Rose/Davies and Walker/Trippier all can take it forward comfortably, Alonso and Moses for Chelsea as wing backs, Valencia at United, Bellerin Arsenal, Clyne for Liverpool (although I dont think he has much productivity once he is there), Baines and Coleman for us. Its harsh to compare to Baines or Coleman from a productivity in the final third perspective because they have been top level full backs in all senses and Baines has created a huge number of goals for a full back and Coleman scored more regularly than most full backs, but I think the importance of being able to drive a team back from that position if there is space to do that is huge. He didnt do it at all first half, he did it more in the second half so Koeman must have told him to and I think that would be the thing to point out about his performance on Saturday rather than the quality of his passing or pass completion rates.

Looking at their pass maps and given Holgate had more of the ball it looks very similar to be honest, if anything maybe Holgate tried more forward attacking passes. The point is 79% passing completion isn't bad at all certainly not when we had our star man at 35%.

I think we'll see more adventurous attacking from him the more he plays. It's only natural he's not as confident attacking the space in comparison to seasoned players given he's only just got into the team and the manager has put an emphasis on being more organised defensively since he arrived. Let's not forget how people wrote Coleman off as a defensive liability after his first few games and you don't hear any of that nonsense now. 

He's clearly got all the tools he just needs time to gain the experience and know how.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.


April 25, 2017, 12:46:17 AM
Reply #31
Offline

Gash

Global Moderator
He's got the potential to be a really good player but as usual after a couple of solid performances people were going way over board and even suggesting Coleman/Jags/Williams should be dropped in his favour.

As said, his starting is as much to do with out lack of depth as it is his ability and right now I'd rather he got a decent loan move next season and got some time at centre back rather than chuck him in the deep end here. One or two top centre backs in the summer, and Coleman back would mean he's not getting near the starting 11 for now anyway.

April 25, 2017, 12:59:39 AM
Reply #32
Online

Major Clanger


It's probably not the best idea to pick our most disjointed performance in months to judge a player's overall ability on.
The Shadow Over Inasmuch - The Adventures of Bicoid, Hunchback and Kruppel


April 25, 2017, 01:04:03 AM
Reply #33
Offline

BlueForYou


Keep playing him and he'll be knocking the England World Cup squad next year
"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

April 25, 2017, 01:04:15 AM
Reply #34
Offline

Rhys


Looking at their pass maps and given Holgate had more of the ball it looks very similar to be honest, if anything maybe Holgate tried more forward attacking passes. The point is 79% passing completion isn't bad at all certainly not when we had our star man at 35%.

I think we'll see more adventurous attacking from him the more he plays. It's only natural he's not as confident attacking the space in comparison to seasoned players given he's only just got into the team and the manager has put an emphasis on being more organised defensively since he arrived. Let's not forget how people wrote Coleman off as a defensive liability after his first few games and you don't hear any of that nonsense now. 

He's clearly got all the tools he just needs time to gain the experience and know how.

Agreed. To be fair Coleman wasnt defensively very good when he came but he developed what he wasnt good at to become as good as any defensive right back and as good as any attacking right back. He's an example of how much someone can improve when they have a good basis which he did. Same with Holgate, although what I would say was Coleman was a natural attacker Holgate isnt which is why I think his future might be central if he develops well there.

It is better to look at what a player of his age can do rather than what they cant, because what they cant can be taught and developed if they are intelligent and have the right attitude/manager and the basis that Holgate does already. What I dont want to see is like @Gash says people go overboard about where he is right now then come down hard on him if he has 5-10 games in the team where he isnt playing well and gets too much criticism for it.

April 25, 2017, 01:31:53 AM
Reply #35
Offline

Silas

NSNO Subscriber
He's got it all but needs time. If we make Europa I expect to see a lot of him next season


April 25, 2017, 01:31:54 AM
Reply #36
Offline

blueski


personally thought Holgate passed the ball sideways or backwards many times where it wasn't necessary on Saturday, playing the ball into areas where West Ham had pressing bodies concentrated, putting the team under pressure. But having said that it was a poor team performance so maybe it isn't fair to focus on that.

overall he's got all the pace required, has proven that he can play a dangerous ball into attacking areas and is a good one on one defender. He's got a shot on him also. the best overall thing I do like about him is he's got an edge & competitive streak about him and doesn't back down.

he's young so you have to expect some inconsistency and odd mistakes, but to be fair to him, there's been a number of instances where teams have actively targeted playing the ball up his side for extended periods to break him down and the fact that he's done well in the light of that seems to me to show that hes got some real quality

Nil Satis

April 25, 2017, 01:41:34 AM
Reply #37
Offline

Evertonian in NC


Think he makes a better makeshift RB than Stones did.

Yeah, Stones was tentative and awful at RB.   Holgate is fearless there, just not as skilled as Coleman.  Can't make up my mind whether he is more a RB or CB (of course, we haven't seen him play real CB minutes).

He may be a true hybrid, he looks his best when he plays RWB in a 3-at-the-back formation.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

April 25, 2017, 01:44:01 AM
Reply #38
Offline

Evertonian in NC


He's got it all but needs time. If we make Europa I expect to see a lot of him next season

Yeah, with Coleman's injury plus Europa (and Cups) I don't see how Holgate doesn't end up playing a fuckton next season.  Loaning him out and playing some random "squad depth" acquisition instead makes no sense to me.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

April 25, 2017, 01:49:57 AM
Reply #39
Offline

Silas

NSNO Subscriber
Yeah, with Coleman's injury plus Europa (and Cups) I don't see how Holgate doesn't end up playing a fuckton next season.  Loaning him out and playing some random "squad depth" acquisition instead makes no sense to me.

I think he'll play because regardless of who we bring in there's a load of games there. Pretty sure at least one of Mori, Jags and Williams will go (my money is on Mori) so even with additions we will need him. He's a centre back all day long though so will be disappointed if we don't get a right back in for Coleman

April 25, 2017, 01:57:24 AM
Reply #40
Offline

Jimmywhack

NSNO Subscriber
Yeah, Stones was tentative and awful at RB.   Holgate is fearless there, just not as skilled as Coleman.  Can't make up my mind whether he is more a RB or CB (of course, we haven't seen him play real CB minutes).

He may be a true hybrid, he looks his best when he plays RWB in a 3-at-the-back formation.
I'd say he looks best as a right sided centre back in a back three


Simply simply lovely

April 25, 2017, 02:27:39 AM
Reply #41
Offline

brap2

NSNO Subscriber
One thing you can say...he's better than ty browning. Having an absolute stinker for Preston here.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

April 25, 2017, 03:17:44 AM
Reply #42
Offline

Evertonian in NC


I'd say he looks best as a right sided centre back in a back three

That's what I meant to say, I might have just screwed up the terminology (yet again).
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

April 25, 2017, 04:25:41 AM
Reply #43
Offline

Bob Sacamano

NSNO Subscriber
Some guy's has got a real bone-on about the two Barnsley lads being right-backs.

April 25, 2017, 06:24:20 PM
Reply #44
Online

Lxxx


He just doesn't look like he has the frame to be a centre half for me. I know he will fill out but he looks to be a couple of inches shorter than you'd like your centre backs to be.
I know Williams isn't tall but he was just a stop gap signing. When laying down a marker for the future you'd ideally like your centre half for the next X number of years to be more commanding in stature. For all Stones' faults he was a presence. 
Just my thoughts anyway.