October 23, 2017, 02:52:11 PM

Author Topic: Is Koeman the right man for the job?  (Read 9196 times)

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September 10, 2017, 03:32:08 PM
Reply #375
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everton1952


The start was always going to be difficult and to cap it all we have Man U on Sunday. The points return so far is almost to be expected, but the rank bad displays are not. With such an ill equipped and unbalanced squad, 7th will be a miracle. Of course there is always January, but damage might have  been done before then.

deCoubertin

September 10, 2017, 04:01:56 PM
Reply #376
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terrydarracotsbaldpate


Well yesterday was poor and Koeman admitted he was tactically outthought. No need to panic yet but 150 million spent and Klassen sygi and Sandro have a lot to do.

September 10, 2017, 04:27:49 PM
Reply #377
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indiantoffee1975


Why would world class players come to us? Genuine question.


I'm sure the board would love to bring in world class players however given we've never been in the Champions League, not won a trophy for 22 years, been in Europe twice in about 7 years and cant blow the better teams out the water financially we just cant go out and attract world class players.

Thats not for me to convince, thats the responsibilty of the board and Moshiri.
Lukaku talked about ambition, what the club should have done was push the boat all out this season and convince 2-3 star players to join and tell Lukaku we want to go places your staying we will bring those players to help you fulfill those ambitions.

Are we continually just going to be a run of the mill club just going through the motions every season and saying ' oh it will be better next season' 

The club at somepoint have to say this what we want and we are going to prepare for it.
All they are preparing for this season is another borefest of 7th place at best.


September 10, 2017, 04:34:08 PM
Reply #378
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Rhys


I strongly dislike having Koeman as manager right now but if he went who would honestly take the job?

Could we attract a world class manager?
All we can offer is a good wage (which most clubs can now) and not much else

We might not get a world class manager but there is more chance of us getting a world class manager than a world class player. We pay koeman 6.5m a year, he is in the top 10 highest paid managers in the world I'm sure plenty of managers who are of a very good level would be interested for that reason alone.

We pay the manager more than psg do, he is earning more than simeone, the same as conte as examples of where he sits. Paying a manager top money is where we can compete with a lot of clubs.

September 10, 2017, 04:36:27 PM
Reply #379
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Realist


We might not get a world class manager but there is more chance of us getting a world class manager than a world class player. We pay koeman 6.5m a year, he is in the top 10 highest paid managers in the world I'm sure plenty of managers who are of a very good level would be interested for that reason alone.

We pay the manager more than psg do, he is earning more than simeone, the same as conte as examples of where he sits. Paying a manager top money is where we can compete with a lot of clubs.

Mad the amount of money we're paying someone who isn't a very good manager

September 10, 2017, 04:43:10 PM
Reply #380
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Ross


Mad the amount of money we're paying someone who isn't a very good manager

"Hollywood" manager.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.


September 10, 2017, 04:46:00 PM
Reply #381
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Rhys


Thats not for me to convince, thats the responsibilty of the board and Moshiri.
Lukaku talked about ambition, what the club should have done was push the boat all out this season and convince 2-3 star players to join and tell Lukaku we want to go places your staying we will bring those players to help you fulfill those ambitions.

Are we continually just going to be a run of the mill club just going through the motions every season and saying ' oh it will be better next season' 

The club at somepoint have to say this what we want and we are going to prepare for it.
All they are preparing for this season is another borefest of 7th place at best.


That's easy to say but what reasons could they use to convince the elite players to join us?

Can we pay twice as much as the current elite teams in the league to make them join us? No

Can we say to players we are in the champions league? No

Have we been in the CL so players think it's worth joining us? No

Have we been regulars in Europe like Spurs have been for the last decade? No

Have we been regularly competing for trophies so that players think they can win things with us? No.


The fact is elite level players have a lot of choice and even in England there are 6 clubs above us who elite level players will look at and think they are all better placed to achieve top goals.

City were able to get better players than their level when they made a go of things and that was because they could blow teams away financially. United offered tevez 150k a week, they paid him 250k a week. They offered David silva, toure huge money because they had an unlimited pot of money effectively and no FFP to consider. Plus because they could pay to attract players like Robinho it makes players think they are serious they are going to pay what it takes to become an elite team.

Chelsea were already in the CL when abramovich took over, they had a good team to start with to build on.

I can't think of a reason why even someone like an abaumayang would have come to us and he isn't ultra elite level, same with Werner. Players will look at will I play champions league football, will I earn top money, will I win trophies and those factors they can all get at plenty of clubs over us right now. We might match the money or maybe even a bit more but we can't offer enough for them to ignore the other factors. Which is why kolasinic bild saying we offered him 180k a week, arsenal 145k a week he still goes there because of the other factors.

We have to buy well still, we have to find some players on the rise before they become that level mixed with players we know what we will get who can push us closer to the teams above. Unfortunately for us the timing is such with ffp, the level of teams above us and our lack of recent successes means it isn't going to be a quick fix of lets buy top players because they just won't come.

September 10, 2017, 04:46:38 PM
Reply #382
Online

Ramjam


Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?
WE ARE THE PEOPLE

September 10, 2017, 04:49:12 PM
Reply #383
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Rhys


Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?

He isn't far off in money terms he earns more than their players think he is on 100-110k a week. One of the clubs who recognise the value of their manager over the players.

September 10, 2017, 04:50:28 PM
Reply #384
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Realist


Could we tempt Potch from Spurs with that sort of money?

Not a chance, I doubt he'll be on a pittance anyway and he has a great project ongoing at Spurs, they look capable of winning things now.
They probably also have money to spend which I don't think we do (sadly)

September 10, 2017, 05:59:11 PM
Reply #385
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Yeah it's a bit early for this talk.

I do think we will settle and start picking up points once we get united out the way.

We do have a lot of new players and to be fair we are missing the key component of our system so it's a little bit hodge-podge ATM.

I'd say at the end of this year there's still no signs of system, we finish distant 7th or worse, (strong 7th is sort of fair, but we want to be troubling the top 6 not scraping into 7th) and more poor showing in the cup - then based on the assumption that there's someone available who we believe can do better I wouldn't be against firing him.

We are paying a top wage and looking to compete, if we are failing to compete or improve he should be judged on that.

However like I say, I felt similarly last year but when it clicked we started winning and I think that will happen again.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

September 10, 2017, 07:04:16 PM
Reply #386
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indiantoffee1975


That's easy to say but what reasons could they use to convince the elite players to join us?

Can we pay twice as much as the current elite teams in the league to make them join us? No

Can we say to players we are in the champions league? No

Have we been in the CL so players think it's worth joining us? No

Have we been regulars in Europe like Spurs have been for the last decade? No

Have we been regularly competing for trophies so that players think they can win things with us? No.


The fact is elite level players have a lot of choice and even in England there are 6 clubs above us who elite level players will look at and think they are all better placed to achieve top goals.

City were able to get better players than their level when they made a go of things and that was because they could blow teams away financially. United offered tevez 150k a week, they paid him 250k a week. They offered David silva, toure huge money because they had an unlimited pot of money effectively and no FFP to consider. Plus because they could pay to attract players like Robinho it makes players think they are serious they are going to pay what it takes to become an elite team.

Chelsea were already in the CL when abramovich took over, they had a good team to start with to build on.

I can't think of a reason why even someone like an abaumayang would have come to us and he isn't ultra elite level, same with Werner. Players will look at will I play champions league football, will I earn top money, will I win trophies and those factors they can all get at plenty of clubs over us right now. We might match the money or maybe even a bit more but we can't offer enough for them to ignore the other factors. Which is why kolasinic bild saying we offered him 180k a week, arsenal 145k a week he still goes there because of the other factors.

We have to buy well still, we have to find some players on the rise before they become that level mixed with players we know what we will get who can push us closer to the teams above. Unfortunately for us the timing is such with ffp, the level of teams above us and our lack of recent successes means it isn't going to be a quick fix of lets buy top players because they just won't come.

Fair enough and I take your points on the above, but are you telling me the club couldn't have done more than bring in the likes of Rooney and Martina. Was Klaassen even needed if Sigurdsson is deployed in the number 10 position?

If we say that we have to be smart about mixing it up with players pushing us on and up and coming players then this isn't a representation of a club being shrewd in the market and the clear neglect of not bringing one possibly two centre forwards. We may want to close that gap, but if we cannot get the basics right in the transfer market then we are no closer to that top 6.

Also if the club cannot show some ambition then don't our up and coming players look to leave. What is there to prevent Pickford and Keane moving on to CL clubs in the next two years.

September 10, 2017, 07:41:39 PM
Reply #387
Offline

MrWhite


Thats not for me to convince, thats the responsibilty of the board and Moshiri.
Lukaku talked about ambition, what the club should have done was push the boat all out this season and convince 2-3 star players to join and tell Lukaku we want to go places your staying we will bring those players to help you fulfill those ambitions.

Are we continually just going to be a run of the mill club just going through the motions every season and saying ' oh it will be better next season' 

The club at somepoint have to say this what we want and we are going to prepare for it.
All they are preparing for this season is another borefest of 7th place at best.

It's easy to point at someone and say it's their job to make something happen. However, if the task is 'make pigs fly' and you then berate them for not immediately succeeding, you probably aren't being very realistic with your expectations.

September 10, 2017, 07:53:26 PM
Reply #388
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gizzblue


Whilst I do understand the shit feelings ....it's all very knee jerk still to me .... every squad takes time to rebuild ....ours more so due to the back bone of it  being of age and shite players we had collected.....nobody turns 11 th into top four in two years without spending PSG money these days ....(at the risk of being fed to the lion's here)a lot r beginning to sound like spoilt red shite wanting everything now when we are or should be used to fuck fuck all.... it's just not that simple if it was, the game we all love wouldn't be worth watching .
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 07:55:14 PM by gizzblue »

September 10, 2017, 08:06:06 PM
Reply #389
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blargins

NSNO Subscriber
Approximately 220m spent for 'firm foundations', 7th place ceiling and long diagonals to no-one seems like a low bar to me.

I think at least 10-12 managers (being conservative) in the Prem could finish 7th with our squad, armed with 220m (even with the sale of Stones and Lukaku). And some of them would even get the team playing some football, as an added bonus.

You have to start somewhere, and I'm not saying 7th is the ceiling either. The puzzle is not complete yet and we will certainly need that striker in January, but two key pacey players will be back by then too. Sometimes big changes pay of immediately, other times they take time to settle and Koeman has a big headache of trying to fit everyone in. It reminds me of England a few years back when trying to accommodate too many superstars.

He needs to try different combinations. Klaassen has been off the pace, but I am sure he will come good. Drop him for Davies. Start with a winger, bring Lookman in for a while. Drop Rooney to the subs bench because I think he is a part of the problem in forcing other players to be out of position.

Yeah, he's spent a shit load, and it will be on his head as to whether we succeed or not. I'm still giving it half a season for everything to settle down, the strongest 11 to work its way out, and get this tough run of games behind us. We've played the top 4 teams in the league over the past few weeks, I want to see how we get on with the rest of the division.
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish, the government will tell him to register his business license, pay income tax, pay payroll, pay for fishing permit.