November 22, 2017, 10:46:59 PM

Author Topic: Michael Keane  (Read 6124 times)

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October 22, 2017, 10:42:11 PM
Reply #105
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Coyney83


One of the lads who I work with used to scout for Burnley.

I spoke to him when we signed Keane and he remarked that he is very solid, dominant in the air and a relatively good passer of the ball, without being a John Stones type. He did go on to say however, that the Burnley backroom staff recognised that Keane plays best in a narrow back four when he has the protection of a full back tucked in close. He isn't good when isolated or when needed to go out to the flanks as he has a tendency to loose his positioning/spatial awareness and be easily bypassed. Given how lacking in formation we are currently, our centre halves (whoever they may be week to week) are being pulled into the flanks far too often leaving huge gaps in the middle.

It feels too soon to judge him, particularly given the number of different people he has had playing next to him, but fair to say he is totally lacking confidence at the moment.

deCoubertin

October 22, 2017, 10:45:40 PM
Reply #106
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Martip


One of the lads who I work with used to scout for Burnley.

I spoke to him when we signed Keane and he remarked that he is very solid, dominant in the air and a relatively good passer of the ball, without being a John Stones type. He did go on to say however, that the Burnley backroom staff recognised that Keane plays best in a narrow back four when he has the protection of a full back tucked in close. He isn't good when isolated or when needed to go out to the flanks as he has a tendency to loose his positioning/spatial awareness and be easily bypassed. Given how lacking in formation we are currently, our centre halves (whoever they may be week to week) are being pulled into the flanks far too often leaving huge gaps in the middle.

It feels too soon to judge him, particularly given the number of different people he has had playing next to him, but fair to say he is totally lacking confidence at the moment.
Interesting post makes a lot of sense.

October 23, 2017, 04:50:30 PM
Reply #107
Online

Lxxx


One of the lads who I work with used to scout for Burnley.

I spoke to him when we signed Keane and he remarked that he is very solid, dominant in the air and a relatively good passer of the ball, without being a John Stones type. He did go on to say however, that the Burnley backroom staff recognised that Keane plays best in a narrow back four when he has the protection of a full back tucked in close. He isn't good when isolated or when needed to go out to the flanks as he has a tendency to loose his positioning/spatial awareness and be easily bypassed. Given how lacking in formation we are currently, our centre halves (whoever they may be week to week) are being pulled into the flanks far too often leaving huge gaps in the middle.

It feels too soon to judge him, particularly given the number of different people he has had playing next to him, but fair to say he is totally lacking confidence at the moment.

You can see that in his play, he's a very simple defender who is pretty good at the basics. For 30m though you'd like to have a bit more though and although he's got time on his side and very low on confidence I don't think think he's impressed that much to be honest. For a young lad he's pretty slow and he's not as mobile as I thought he'd be. I also thought he'd be a bit more of a leader coming from Man U and from what he showed at Burnley.

I guess we'll not really find out how good our summer signings are until they are under different management so they can now start afresh, again.


October 23, 2017, 05:06:13 PM
Reply #108
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Thornton_19


I feel bad for him, every game he is alongside a different RB and CB.
How is he meant to get any consistency or develop partnerships.

October 23, 2017, 05:20:55 PM
Reply #109
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Rhys


I feel bad for him, every game he is alongside a different RB and CB.
How is he meant to get any consistency or develop partnerships.

I think this is a general point as well for players around the pitch.

We hardly ever have 2 games in a row with the same system, a lot of the games we arent having the same system for the start of the second half that we had in the first! So for Keane it isnt just having a different centre half and right back next to him, it can also be changing from a back 3 to a back 4 one half to next or one game to next. How can you settle or get some consistency in what you are doing when that is happening.

But as I said thats the same for centre midfielders, wide players people all over the pitch. No coincidence that Leicester had the run they had 2 years ago, Chelsea same last year where they had the same system game after game and players playing the same roles game after game. We might have to rotate players with the number of games we have had but there is no excuse for him changing the system as often as he is doing.

It would be much easier for the players to try and get some consistency in their play and form if they knew the system they were playing and their role in that system inside out.

October 23, 2017, 05:25:39 PM
Reply #110
Online

Lxxx


I think this is a general point as well for players around the pitch.

We hardly ever have 2 games in a row with the same system, a lot of the games we arent having the same system for the start of the second half that we had in the first! So for Keane it isnt just having a different centre half and right back next to him, it can also be changing from a back 3 to a back 4 one half to next or one game to next. How can you settle or get some consistency in what you are doing when that is happening.

But as I said thats the same for centre midfielders, wide players people all over the pitch. No coincidence that Leicester had the run they had 2 years ago, Chelsea same last year where they had the same system game after game and players playing the same roles game after game. We might have to rotate players with the number of games we have had but there is no excuse for him changing the system as often as he is doing.

It would be much easier for the players to try and get some consistency in their play and form if they knew the system they were playing and their role in that system inside out.

Might this have something to do with it?

"But I don't know. For every manager working with 28-29 players, you can't keep everybody happy. That's my opinion but I don't know."

Maybe he's trying to juggle everyone and pleasing no-one.


October 23, 2017, 05:58:24 PM
Reply #111
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Ridge


Don't put Keane in a back 4 at the moment, he's been dropping too deep, it's what he's done for last few years. On the rare occasions he hasn't dropped too deep, another player will assume he has. Top teams can't afford to have 8 players defending deep every game, and we don't setup that way. It leaves the space in front of defence to pick passes.

I'd be interested to see how many times players have been caught offside against us, because I can hardly remember it happening this season. It's just an issue we can't afford to offer, unless we have a counter attack, which we don't, he is the slowest relay runner and it stretches the team and leaves us vulnerable

It's still something he can learn and improve, but let him do it out the team, and use the experienced players to settle things. Jags and Williams are not fantastic, but they are our best combination at present, given situation. Alternatively teach Pickford to shout "fuck off" like a reversing sensor for defence.

I don't think Jags or Williams can cover the deficit, maybe Holgate and/or Funes Mori could long term. 18 yard line is deep enough until ball is there, Pickford doesn't command the box that much, and I do think Keane would be more comfortable with Robles behind him.

Maybe work Keane back in gradually and as needs, but probably with pitch size in consideration and get him to hold a higher line, build partnership with Holgate with his pace on the backtrack. Use both sets at different times, but get some familiarity and organisation.

I was wondering the other day if he'd work best as like a some sort of sweeper in a back 3 because of pace issues, he is tidy on the ball and can come forward with it, while he can catch up with play and be an aerial threat at both ends. Maybe even get him knocking long passes and build some of our creative play around him, would be a strange system.

But would mean we could play more attacking midfielders in central positions, while also freeing him up to chase aerial balls and not have to worry about the back line or runners. Maybe even sneak him further forward like Fellaini for a bit of a chuckle every now and then or if we're behind. He actually has looked more comfortable on the ball than I was expecting. Not sure he's good enough to warrant that sort of role, but was trying to think how you'd get the best out of him and I ended up with an inverted Fellaini.

October 23, 2017, 06:02:08 PM
Reply #112
Online

Lxxx


He just needs a lot of pace around him to look decent and a keeper/sweeper to mop up when he gets done over the top for pace.

So basically we're needing to spend over 30m to make our 30m defender look better. Which is just so typically Everton. 

October 23, 2017, 06:07:59 PM
Reply #113
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hill135


Is this the folly of buying the best players from bottom half teams?

Keane looked good for Burnley but in a very specific system where the full backs were narrow, the midfield deep and he could concentrate on defending a very small part of the pitch. Defending on the half way line with less protection is a completely different ball game and you'd hope we'd factored this in to our scouting.

Although it's probably unfair to judge as the entire team is fucked from front to back.

October 23, 2017, 06:10:13 PM
Reply #114
Online

Lxxx


Is this the folly of buying the best players from bottom half teams?

Keane looked good for Burnley but in a very specific system where the full backs were narrow, the midfield deep and he could concentrate on defending a very small part of the pitch. Defending on the half way line with less protection is a completely different ball game and you'd hope we'd factored this in to our scouting.

Although it's probably unfair to judge as the entire team is fucked from front to back.

True. He's getting no protection even though we play two defensive midfielders and he's been asked to play with Martina and his walkabouts, Holgate and his rashness and inexperience and Kenny who is just out of short trousers. That's not even going into the rotating old men to his left.

October 23, 2017, 06:28:54 PM
Reply #115
Online

SANA_DR0


I feel bad for him, every game he is alongside a different RB and CB.
How is he meant to get any consistency or develop partnerships.

that quote covers so much thats wrong with our team.
The only real things in this reality are how perspective is perceived and eventual death...

& Unsworth kicking ass.

October 23, 2017, 06:43:13 PM
Reply #116
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Hawkandro


He just needs a lot of pace around him to look decent and a keeper/sweeper to mop up when he gets done over the top for pace.

So basically we're needing to spend over 30m to make our 30m defender look better. Which is just so typically Everton. 

We all know that anyway, even Koeman knows that, hence his demand for a left-sided CB.

Baines is coming to the end now, as is Jags and Williams, Holgate and Kenny are still very raw and Martina is bang average. With Keane, Pickford and Coleman we have the starting blocks, but we need another LB and another 2 (at least) CBs to form a new defence.

The rebuilding task is mammoth here.
Yes, we're being condescending. Yes, that means we're talking down to you.

October 23, 2017, 06:44:18 PM
Reply #117
Online

Lxxx


We all know that anyway, even Koeman knows that, hence his demand for a left-sided CB.

Baines is coming to the end now, as is Jags and Williams, Holgate and Kenny are still very raw and Martina is bang average. With Keane, Pickford and Coleman we have the starting blocks, but we need another LB and another 2 (at least) CBs to form a new defence.

The rebuilding task is mammoth here.

Add a couple of strikers and you're talking another 100m.

October 23, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Reply #118
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Hawkandro


Add a couple of strikers and you're talking another 100m.


Aye. It's a huge task. Need some wingers too.

Either we will find that guy to take us forward (be it Unsworth or someone else) and be here for 5-10 years and build the team, or we will do a Palace. Could go either way at moment.
Yes, we're being condescending. Yes, that means we're talking down to you.

October 23, 2017, 07:37:17 PM
Reply #119
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Ridge


I think a problem makes everything around look like a problem too. Not a lot of the other components have changed and it's been clear for a while that we are defending like a team fighting relegation.

Pickford has been a decent shot stopper and he's good on the ball, and while he's not commanding, neither is De Gea. And it's generally more of an additional benefit to come out as you do take risk, as long as he does come for the easy ones in and around goalmouth that Pickford does.

Goalkeeper is not crucial to shape of team, and if it is, you've got the wrong keeper. I see no reason for defenders to be blowing Pickford's nose and wiping his bum. And maybe he gives bad commands or spreads anxiety and that's part of the issue for Keane and others. But it's certainly the defenders positioning and movement that is suspect and I think it's fairly clear one of the main problems is Keane.