October 22, 2017, 11:44:22 AM

Author Topic: Ratings v Chelsea  (Read 1473 times)

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August 28, 2017, 11:07:34 PM
Reply #15
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sam of the south


Can't really see what the footballing plan or idea is behind our team, other than backs to the wall defending, long diagonals to DCL and hope we score one of our 3 shots at goal per match that we're averaging.

I think you've answered the question, BD.

It's just we don't like the answer much😬
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

deCoubertin

August 28, 2017, 11:09:47 PM
Reply #16
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Marky Mark and the funky


I'd give Koeman a 3. Turned up to a gun fight with a toothpick, and he's been here for well over a year and we still can't retain the ball in the opposition half, never mind near their box. And I don't mean against Chelsea and City. We still can't do it against Stoke or Ruzumberok.

Having my doubts about Ronald lately, after praising his set up at City. Not sure where this is all going.

Agreed on his rating for this match. Not so much the games we got a good result.

As for the closing statement, it's too early for me to be doubting Ronald but I can understand the "Not sure where this is all going" sentiment. I'm hoping once he has all the pieces in place it will start to make sense, and no that does not include the long-term injured coming back.


August 28, 2017, 11:12:20 PM
Reply #17
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ally2


Bloody hell. It must be an international break.


August 28, 2017, 11:16:57 PM
Reply #18
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Bluedylan


Bloody hell. It must be an international break.

Nah, just people having legitimate concerns. Alright to discuss it, isn't it?
The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive. Everybody's out on the run tonight but there's no place left to hide. Together, Wendy, we can live with the sadness, I'll love you with all the madness in my soul.

August 28, 2017, 11:22:13 PM
Reply #19
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ally2


Nah, just people having legitimate concerns. Alright to discuss it, isn't it?

Yeah. One bad result into a 3 game season with a vastly different first eleven though.

August 28, 2017, 11:32:47 PM
Reply #20
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Rhys


Yeah. One bad result into a 3 game season with a vastly different first eleven though.

It isn't questioning the result, we could have had a full team a week off played very well and still lost to Chelsea 2-0 because they are a top team.

But Chelsea twice away, Spurs away, Liverpool away, city away last year (very lucky result), arsenal away it wasn't the results it was how poor we were in all those games. Like, not looking like we have a clue how to retain the ball or look like we might get into the games. And it's not just those games, we've been really poor at keeping the ball and working chances in most away games in general hence why we have won 4 out of 21 PL away games with him.

I do believe a good focal point striker is a pivotal player for how koeman likes to play given how important pelle was for him. We seem to be reliant on being direct and if you are direct and don't have someone who can get hold of the ball and bring people in then that way of playing is going to see you hard to keep the ball in hard games. So when we get that person who knows we might start clicking how he wants but I do believe in away games we should have been doing more to control games than we have done.

It's not a lets get at the manager comment, but it's a forum and when there are repetitive poor performances and problems in games away from home no harm in bringing them up to discuss.


August 28, 2017, 11:34:12 PM
Reply #21
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Bluedylan


Yeah. One bad result into a 3 game season with a vastly different first eleven though.

Credit me with a bit more intelligence than that. Losing away to the champions isn't my issue. Just can't see what our identity or plan is. It worries me that we can't pass the ball, and never have been able to under Koeman. It worries me that his big tactical gambit is long balls to DCL and that we're having 3 shots per match when teams above us are having 3 shots in one single move. Are you convinced, honestly?

The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive. Everybody's out on the run tonight but there's no place left to hide. Together, Wendy, we can live with the sadness, I'll love you with all the madness in my soul.

August 28, 2017, 11:37:07 PM
Reply #22
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Marky Mark and the funky


Credit me with a bit more intelligence than that. Losing away to the champions isn't my issue. Just can't see what our identity or plan is. It worries me that we can't pass the ball, and never have been able to under Koeman. It worries me that his big tactical gambit is long balls to DCL and that we're having 3 shots per match when teams above us are having 3 shots in one single move. Are you convinced, honestly?

Liked because I agree with everything you said here except "can't pass the ball", we have some great passing going on now the problem is it has been statue to statue to statue retaining possession for a bit but rarely doing anything with it!

Leaving the rest of you query for the intended target ;)

August 28, 2017, 11:56:12 PM
Reply #23
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ally2


It isn't questioning the result, we could have had a full team a week off played very well and still lost to Chelsea 2-0 because they are a top team.

But Chelsea twice away, Spurs away, Liverpool away, city away last year (very lucky result), arsenal away it wasn't the results it was how poor we were in all those games. Like, not looking like we have a clue how to retain the ball or look like we might get into the games. And it's not just those games, we've been really poor at keeping the ball and working chances in most away games in general hence why we have won 4 out of 21 PL away games with him.

I do believe a good focal point striker is a pivotal player for how koeman likes to play given how important pelle was for him. We seem to be reliant on being direct and if you are direct and don't have someone who can get hold of the ball and bring people in then that way of playing is going to see you hard to keep the ball in hard games. So when we get that person who knows we might start clicking how he wants but I do believe in away games we should have been doing more to control games than we have done.

It's not a lets get at the manager comment, but it's a forum and when there are repetitive poor performances and problems in games away from home no harm in bringing them up to discuss.

I do think there is some nonsense in there. I hope you don't find that offensive. I apologise if you do. If we had won or even drawn yesterday, people would be happy. We were bad yes but then you have a sub section of our fan base who then then start tieing things together to create some sort of narrative. THIS IS UNHELPFUL.

Why bring up last season??!  We did well last season as a whole with a pretty poor squad actually and we got into Europe. So why now drag up last year's performances against selected teams trying to make a point?  I've said it before - a significant number of people on here make judgements on the team and on individuals literally on a game by game basis which is utterly ridiculous and shows people up.

I actually think it was important yesterday to not get humped and so a negative approach was totally warranted. It would have been far more damaging to lose heavily. Chelsea are a machine. They're streets ahead of us. We are a work in progress and everyone knows that so it annoys me when people show no perspective. I don't understand why people expect us to have developed an identity when we have six new first teamers and we are 3 games into the season.

I honestly don't know what people want from us in light of the current state of the game eg the absurd amounts of money being thrown around. I would be happy with European football for the next five years even if it was in the Europa or whatever it is called.

August 29, 2017, 12:02:28 AM
Reply #24
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ally2


Credit me with a bit more intelligence than that. Losing away to the champions isn't my issue. Just can't see what our identity or plan is. It worries me that we can't pass the ball, and never have been able to under Koeman. It worries me that his big tactical gambit is long balls to DCL and that we're having 3 shots per match when teams above us are having 3 shots in one single move. Are you convinced, honestly?

OK some of that is fair. We don't create many chance I admit that. I do think that's an issue but the whole attack has changed game by game for one reason or another. Or passing has shown signs of promise in my opinion but it does stem from the centre defence and central defenders who can pass are hard took come by. Schneiderlein is also key. Can we not just give it until the end of the transfer window and 10 games or so?  There's too much fume in my opinion and everyone just ends winding each other up even more.

August 29, 2017, 12:08:48 AM
Reply #25
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Marky Mark and the funky


I do think there is some nonsense in there. I hope you don't find that offensive. I apologise if you do. If we had won or even drawn yesterday, people would be happy. We were bad yes but then you have a sub section of our fan base who then then start tieing things together to create some sort of narrative. THIS IS UNHELPFUL.

Why bring up last season??!  We did well last season as a whole with a pretty poor squad actually and we got into Europe. So why now drag up last year's performances against selected teams trying to make a point?  I've said it before - a significant number of people on here make judgements on the team and on individuals literally on a game by game basis which is utterly ridiculous and shows people up.

I actually think it was important yesterday to not get humped and so a negative approach was totally warranted. It would have been far more damaging to lose heavily. Chelsea are a machine. They're streets ahead of us. We are a work in progress and everyone knows that so it annoys me when people show no perspective. I don't understand why people expect us to have developed an identity when we have six new first teamers and we are 3 games into the season.

I honestly don't know what people want from us in light of the current state of the game eg the absurd amounts of money being thrown around. I would be happy with European football for the next five years even if it was in the Europa or whatever it is called.

You are demonstrating the entire point of discussing it. Is commenting on the narrative of the season so far really unhelpful? Irrelevant maybe but it's hardly harming anyone.

Assessing players on a game-by-game basis is certainly daft if talking in the context of whether the player is worth having or not. It makes perfect sense to rate the players on a match just gone or even a few as long as it is not followed up by 'get rid', 'he's just shite' sort of shouts.

If we are stuck in the Europa for the next five years I'd still be an Evertonian, but Moshiri will be looking to fuck us off if he has any sense! His own quotes regarding not wanting to be a museum etc!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 12:10:41 AM by Marky Mark and the funky »

August 29, 2017, 12:18:45 AM
Reply #26
Offline

Rhys


I do think there is some nonsense in there. I hope you don't find that offensive. I apologise if you do. If we had won or even drawn yesterday, people would be happy. We were bad yes but then you have a sub section of our fan base who then then start tieing things together to create some sort of narrative. THIS IS UNHELPFUL.

Why bring up last season??!  We did well last season as a whole with a pretty poor squad actually and we got into Europe. So why now drag up last year's performances against selected teams trying to make a point?  I've said it before - a significant number of people on here make judgements on the team and on individuals literally on a game by game basis which is utterly ridiculous and shows people up.

I actually think it was important yesterday to not get humped and so a negative approach was totally warranted. It would have been far more damaging to lose heavily. Chelsea are a machine. They're streets ahead of us. We are a work in progress and everyone knows that so it annoys me when people show no perspective. I don't understand why people expect us to have developed an identity when we have six new first teamers and we are 3 games into the season.

I honestly don't know what people want from us in light of the current state of the game eg the absurd amounts of money being thrown around. I would be happy with European football for the next five years even if it was in the Europa or whatever it is called.

No offence taken!

Bringing up last year because the topic was around how we play, so it is highlighting a continuing pattern so far in away games to show what we might expect moving forward. The highlighted games were using poor performances against good teams, but it also references every away game and the record in general to show retaining the ball and creating chances was poor away from home for most of the season.

Last year was good in terms of getting us back to where we should have been and great that it got us into Europe. I don't doubt we will finish 7th again this season and for where we are against the other teams who finished above us that is fine because I think that is the squads level with or with a striker. My expectations for the season are that we close the gap in terms of points of the teams above us so we aren't so far behind them, and have a stronger attempt at winning a trophy, but we have to look at how do we become better and that is an obvious area.

To finish in the top 4, not this season but in general, we need to be getting minimum 70 points more likely 75 so we have to think how do we get 15 more points than we did last year. Winning 4 away games when you want to become that level isn't good enough, and we won't become that much stronger away from home until we find ways to control more spells in away games to help us create more chances. Yesterday's performance was a strong example of how we are very poor at getting consistent possession in the opposition half in away games not just against the top teams but in general and something which we have to become better at if we want to push on towards the top 4 in the coming seasons.

August 29, 2017, 12:31:54 AM
Reply #27
Offline

Mac934


It isn't questioning the result, we could have had a full team a week off played very well and still lost to Chelsea 2-0 because they are a top team.

But Chelsea twice away, Spurs away, Liverpool away, city away last year (very lucky result), arsenal away it wasn't the results it was how poor we were in all those games. Like, not looking like we have a clue how to retain the ball or look like we might get into the games. And it's not just those games, we've been really poor at keeping the ball and working chances in most away games in general hence why we have won 4 out of 21 PL away games with him.

I do believe a good focal point striker is a pivotal player for how koeman likes to play given how important pelle was for him. We seem to be reliant on being direct and if you are direct and don't have someone who can get hold of the ball and bring people in then that way of playing is going to see you hard to keep the ball in hard games. So when we get that person who knows we might start clicking how he wants but I do believe in away games we should have been doing more to control games than we have done.

It's not a lets get at the manager comment, but it's a forum and when there are repetitive poor performances and problems in games away from home no harm in bringing them up to discuss.
Here here, totally agree.

August 29, 2017, 12:36:36 AM
Reply #28
Offline

bacon sarnie


I'd give Koeman a 3. Turned up to a gun fight with a toothpick, and he's been here for well over a year and we still can't retain the ball in the opposition half, never mind near their box. And I don't mean against Chelsea and City. We still can't do it against Stoke or Ruzumberok.

Having my doubts about Ronald lately, after praising his set up at City. Not sure where this is all going.

Watched it without sound after 10 mins as Ian Dark & Kilbane where getting on my nerves and it looked a total shambles. No rhyme, reason, energy, or cohesion and for that Koeman gets a 1 for showing up and pulling a Walter Smith in his seat.

Whole team played like shit as well.

August 29, 2017, 12:46:37 AM
Reply #29
Offline

Rodenplav64


Yeah. One bad result into a 3 game season with a vastly different first eleven though.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see .
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 12:47:42 AM by Rodenplav64 »