October 24, 2017, 10:57:00 AM

Author Topic: [News]Moshiri: We will look to add more in January  (Read 5903 times)

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September 06, 2017, 03:19:27 PM
Reply #150
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Mick 1995

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How do you?
Why do you think we never bought a striker? The target man that Koeman wanted?

We wouldn't have bought one even if Barkley was sold.
We were unable to attract the level of player that Koeman wanted.

deCoubertin

September 06, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
Reply #151
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Cozzie



September 06, 2017, 04:57:21 PM
Reply #152
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Lxxx




September 06, 2017, 05:11:19 PM
Reply #153
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Ross


Can't believe the City comparisons are still being trotted out.

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

September 06, 2017, 05:51:16 PM
Reply #154
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Mick 1995

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Can't believe the City comparisons are still being trotted out.



I think it goes a long way to explain why some looked at the squad building done this window as being a failure/let down.
Striker aside it was a brilliant window. Granted, it left a sour taste in the mouth due to how it ended. But it was a solid window that improved us everywhere else.

I think some of the crazy, crazy shouts (Ozil/Aguero/etc) come from the same place as the "similar to early City" mentality.

September 06, 2017, 06:00:17 PM
Reply #155
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Lxxx


I think it goes a long way to explain why some looked at the squad building done this window as being a failure/let down.
Striker aside it was a brilliant window. Granted, it left a sour taste in the mouth due to how it ended. But it was a solid window that improved us everywhere else.

I think some of the crazy, crazy shouts (Ozil/Aguero/etc) come from the same place as the "similar to early City" mentality.

For a team that only plays one central striker we still have three of them so we're hardly resorting to Moyes territory of playing six midfielders. Yet. We have decent squad numbers not seen in a very long time, especially when everyone is fit.


September 06, 2017, 07:06:27 PM
Reply #156
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Ross


I think it goes a long way to explain why some looked at the squad building done this window as being a failure/let down.
Striker aside it was a brilliant window. Granted, it left a sour taste in the mouth due to how it ended. But it was a solid window that improved us everywhere else.

I think some of the crazy, crazy shouts (Ozil/Aguero/etc) come from the same place as the "similar to early City" mentality.

I tend to think people's opinion of the window as a let down is more to do with stockpiling a certain type of player, something Moshiri himself brought up, and neglect of other more urgent positions such as a striker or players who can stretch teams outwide and with pace.  Especially after spending so much money after selling one of the leagues leading strikers.

I've not really seen anyone complaining about the amount of money reinvested in the team as such more where and how wisely it's been spent. I think the worry is, and if you want or need to compare us to another recent takeover, it's a bit like Villa when Learner came in. He gave the manager plenty of money and he paid exuberant fees well above market value to try and bridge the gap to the leagues elite but it was never enough and the manager always wanted more.

The massive difference is how far you're willing and able to back an average manager. City could and did with Hughes for a while but he was clearly out if his depth so they brought in a better one and continued writing the cheques until success arrived. Villa couldn't as they found out because Learner finances, like Moshiris, are finite and it wasn't sustainable.

In short City could and did spend unlimited wealth to get to where they are we clearly can't and need to spend what we've got wisely. There's no comparison between us and City.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

September 06, 2017, 07:11:54 PM
Reply #157
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Mick 1995

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That last line was entirely my point, thanks for agreeing.

RE: the window. Anybody who is worried that we have stockpiled is either saying that they know more than Koeman (they dont) or that he hasn't got a clue (unlikely).

I, for one, don't think Pickford is the same as Klaassen. I dont think Sandro is the same as Sigurdson. I don't think Keane is the same as Vlasic.
Take Rooney out of the equation and the signings of Klaassen (more of a CM), Sigurdsson (AMF) & Sandro (Forward) don't look all that similar...
Put simply though, we are not in a position to turn down somebody of the experience and quality of Rooney. He is a short term option and the others are medium/long term options.

September 06, 2017, 07:27:35 PM
Reply #158
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Ross


So is it wise to spend 50% of our tranfer budget on two players who like to occupy and thrive in a certain area of the pitch @Mick 1995 ? A position which also happens to be the same one our highest salary earner is most comfortable, which surely means we really shouldn't be "taking him out of this equation" if we're judging the whole picture. 

Moshiri didn't seem to think so the other day when he gave that interview and there's plenty of others who don't either while there's massive holes around the squad.

For what it's worth City may be able to do that sort of thing but as you agree we've got to be wise when it comes to this sort of thing seeing as we're nothing like City.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

September 06, 2017, 07:38:50 PM
Reply #159
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Mick 1995

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You say budget as if you know what the final upper limit may have been? It's a pretty fundamental mistake whilst trying to judge worth.

Also, it's becoming clear that Koeman seems to prefer 2 of them 3 attacking positions behind the striker to have similar players in them (with the other to contain a player with pace/directness).

I can remember the rare occasions in 95/96 that Limpar & Kanchelskis we're on the pitch at the same time and always thinking we looked unbalanced and weak. Maybe Koeman is of the same line of thought - that we should only ever have 1 wide player on the pitch at a time?
That width only matters at the back?

So, similar to you making an assumption about what our budget was, you are now assuming that Koeman wanted something different to what he got. (Well, he wanted a striker and a defender still, he definitely didn't get that. But neither of them fundamentally change the argument about this 'congested middle').

Also, Moshiri's opinion counts for less than nothing when it comes to playing staff in my eyes. I'd be aghast to hear he had any say in any part of the recruitment process. He has staff to cover the targets and staff to cover the budgets. Unless he is spending his own money (he is not) then it has nothing to do directly with him.

September 06, 2017, 07:50:58 PM
Reply #160
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Lxxx


The squad isn't as massively disjointed as many make out. The issue is our playing style is shite, or rather we haven't developed one yet. Coupled with the insistence on playing five defenders so far means we're a man less as an attacking unit and boring to watch. The only time we looked decent was when we lined up in a 4-4-2 at home to Split and looked pretty fluid.

September 06, 2017, 07:55:55 PM
Reply #161
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blueski


to be fair its still a little early to make judgments on our playing style seeing as two of our league outings were stoke away which isn't a universally known fixture for its fluidity and quality play and a game against the defending champions
Nil Satis

September 06, 2017, 08:03:33 PM
Reply #162
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Lxxx


to be fair its still a little early to make judgments on our playing style seeing as two of our league outings were stoke away which isn't a universally known fixture for its fluidity and quality play and a game against the defending champions

We've played four European games too. Plus the City game. Stoke was at home too by the way.

We can only say what we see so far. Yes it might be early to expect to integrate a load of new players in but it is what it is, which isn't pretty and probably won't be for another fortnight at least.

September 06, 2017, 08:07:31 PM
Reply #163
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Marky Mark and the funky


That last line was entirely my point, thanks for agreeing.

RE: the window. Anybody who is worried that we have stockpiled is either saying that they know more than Koeman (they dont) or that he hasn't got a clue (unlikely).

I, for one, don't think Pickford is the same as Klaassen. I dont think Sandro is the same as Sigurdson. I don't think Keane is the same as Vlasic.
Take Rooney out of the equation and the signings of Klaassen (more of a CM), Sigurdsson (AMF) & Sandro (Forward) don't look all that similar...
Put simply though, we are not in a position to turn down somebody of the experience and quality of Rooney. He is a short term option and the others are medium/long term options.

This is the first argument I've seen where I'm firmly in @Ross corner. I'm not discounting everything you said Mick but what were you smoking to come up with the above highlights?!

"Assuming that Koeman wanted something different to what he got"  :clap: (I don't think what you said in brackets saves you from the former daft statement ;))

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 08:09:20 PM by Marky Mark and the funky »

September 06, 2017, 08:22:51 PM
Reply #164
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Mick 1995

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OK, well this isn't a fight, me and @Ross aren't falling out over this so join in.

So what part's do you disagree with?
Obviously the player comparisons are only technically true (I do admit to being a bit facetious with how disparate the players i chose were).
The main point, as you have noted, is in the brackets. I expected people to also be able to recognise the inferred point that we have also bought a keeper, centre half and winger.

Ross has also mentioned about how you cant take Rooney our of the equation, so let me expand on that:
I don't think any of the players we have bought play in the exact same position. But, people think differently so i'll argue there.
Rooney is 31. He has 1 or 2 years left
Sigurdsson is 27. He has 5 or 6 years left
Sandro is 22. He has 10 or 11 years left
Klaassen is 21. he has 11 or 12 years left.

Considering Koeman seems to prefer 2 of the 'attacking 3' behind the striker to be of a similar type - i dont think we are congested and it looks like he has made sure we have the potential to have a world class centre for the next decade. Making sure the 'risks' have the time & guidance to bed in properly.