October 18, 2017, 07:52:09 PM

Author Topic: The Defence  (Read 2982 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

September 13, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Reply #75
Offline

Rhys


Why is so much of our football seemingly based around getting Cuco Martina on the ball?



It will be because teams force us that way. They do it loads when Holgate is right back because they know he isn't a threat going forward. It is noticeable how much space Neville/hibbert always had there in comparison to Baines. Then the space started to disappear once they realised how good Coleman was, and now he is injured teams are happy to leave that side more open again.

Managers will look at it and think do we want Baines having consistently free delivery in the final third? No, let's put more emphasis on blocking that space and take our chances that holgate/martina won't do that much damage given holgate always comes back and martina is happy to throw a cross in from wherever he gets the ball.

deCoubertin

September 13, 2017, 02:58:21 PM
Reply #76
Offline

MmmBlueRamirez


I love Mo but the thought of him at CB in the Prem is the stuff of real nightmares.
Farming Karma like the Dalai Llama

September 13, 2017, 03:00:04 PM
Reply #77
Offline

Rhys


And yet, as usual, he was excellent for Wales in both games. Maybe it's the system rather than the player that's the issue

He had a few struggles away at Moldova when Wales were really pushing for the first goal and he got isolated on the half way line. When he is deeper, it's more compact around him and he defends tighter spaces he is really good at it. Whereas jags is more versatile you can throw him into most types of forwards style of defence he can cope just as well.

You play Williams in the right system for him he is really good but we can't do that all the time only certain sceanrios.


September 13, 2017, 03:01:20 PM
Reply #78
Online

Lxxx


Schneiderlin isn't a centre back. At a push he could maybe play the David Luiz role in the centre of a back three, if we had no-one else to play there. Which will never happen, so I don't even know why I'm writing this.

September 13, 2017, 03:45:43 PM
Reply #79
Offline

Brownie20

NSNO Subscriber
He had a few struggles away at Moldova when Wales were really pushing for the first goal and he got isolated on the half way line. When he is deeper, it's more compact around him and he defends tighter spaces he is really good at it. Whereas jags is more versatile you can throw him into most types of forwards style of defence he can cope just as well.

You play Williams in the right system for him he is really good but we can't do that all the time only certain sceanrios.

Yes, because we had so much of the ball and were attacking constantly. Which is where he's been caught out for us in the past. If you look at Utd away last year I think he had his best game for us (until the handball incident). Nothing got past him and you could understand his annoyance with Lukaku when you compare the shifts they were putting in
[lightbox=image_url|title|group|float][/lightbox]  :cheers:

September 13, 2017, 04:01:27 PM
Reply #80
Offline

brap2

NSNO Subscriber
It will be because teams force us that way. They do it loads when Holgate is right back because they know he isn't a threat going forward. It is noticeable how much space Neville/hibbert always had there in comparison to Baines. Then the space started to disappear once they realised how good Coleman was, and now he is injured teams are happy to leave that side more open again.

Managers will look at it and think do we want Baines having consistently free delivery in the final third? No, let's put more emphasis on blocking that space and take our chances that holgate/martina won't do that much damage given holgate always comes back and martina is happy to throw a cross in from wherever he gets the ball.

That's fair enough, but surely Koeman's job to get around it. It's a frequent feature and is starting to really grate on me tbh.

It was bad enough watching Holgate run into invisible walls and giving the ball back to Jags for much of last year, and as much as I like the fact Martina isn't shy of putting one in the box there's no one in there at the minute so it's literally just knocking it over the box for the other full back.

Wouldn't mind as much if we started really smashing them low and hard across the box but that's a different matter.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


September 13, 2017, 04:10:26 PM
Reply #81
Online

Lxxx


I'm not too sure we'll even see Kenny in the cups so it's Holgate or Martina until Coleman is back I think. Which seems a waste of an opportunity as we know what Holgate and Martina both offer in that position, which wouldn't be a bad full back if we combined the best bits of both but we also have another right back to see if he can offer something different too.

September 13, 2017, 04:21:29 PM
Reply #82
Offline

brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Kenny must be getting done in training on the regs.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

September 13, 2017, 04:23:39 PM
Reply #83
Offline

Evertonian in NC


Kenny's gotta play in the Cups, at least.  I wouldn't use any of our back line starters there.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

September 13, 2017, 05:02:03 PM
Reply #84
Offline

Toddacelli


I like what Mo does at DM, but even though I have seen him play credibly in very brief cameos at CB...I have trouble visualizing him as a real option for significant minutes there.

Schneiderlin is at least 1.1, maybe as much as 1.15 Holgates, right?  He's at least got that going for him.


Let's not forget that Kevin Ratcliffe was about 0.2 Holgates and the best defender I've seen play for Everton. It's not all about how many Holgates.
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

September 13, 2017, 05:16:22 PM
Reply #85
Offline

Blueviking


Martina and Williams are absolutely not good enough for this level.

Jagielka is past his best but should absolutely be starting.

Holgate struggles going forward but is a rock defensively.

Pickford
Holgate Keane Jagielka Baines

That's currently our best back line.

There can be no argument.



Holgate is not a great RB, but could be ideal in a 5 at the back, alongside Jags and Keane, bringing Kenny in at RB until Coleman's fit and firing, with Baines at LB. This would give Kenny chance to get forward without too much concern for a gap at the back, providing width in a way that can suit us.

September 13, 2017, 10:15:24 PM
Reply #86
Online

BlueForYou


They said midfielder Franz Beckenbauer couldn't play in defence

Schneiderlin for sweeper!
"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

September 13, 2017, 10:29:11 PM
Reply #87
Offline

Gary1878


Williams has gone from being a decent player last year to very poor very quickly. He looks very vulnerable against anyone with pace and power, and Keane seems to suffer when he plays next to him.

Jags and Keane at the back is the only partnership for us this year, but we need replacements either in January or in the summer to replace an ageing back line.

September 13, 2017, 10:36:59 PM
Reply #88
Online

BlueForYou


Tell Fabrice, I've got his tenner!
"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

September 13, 2017, 10:39:22 PM
Reply #89
Online

Lxxx


The only partner for Keane at the minute has to be Jags, but with the games coming thick and fast Williams will get plenty of game time too. Holgate is needed at right back as Martina blows hot and cold and there is no-one to deputise for Baines. All a bit of a mess really, especially trying to bed in another new signing behind them, a kid with not even a full season as goalkeeper at this level under his belt.