December 18, 2017, 05:04:08 PM

Poll

What should we do? (RESET 29 SEPTEMBER, AFTER LIMASSOL GAME)

Fire him now before our season goes tits up
Give him till Christmas.. If performances and results aren't where they should be for what he's spent, he's out
Let's just see how things are at the end of the season
The season has barely begun, he's a great manager and we should get 100% behind him
Ohhh Davey Moyes, Davey Davey Davey Moyes...
Fuck off with your polls, you cunt

Author Topic: Should we sack Koeman?  (Read 63342 times)

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September 16, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
Reply #495
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Rodenplav64


There is a massive difference from learning your trade by being coach of an U23 side to taking on the main role at a big PL club. It would be like me being given the Headship of my school after being a form tutor. Unsworth, he has an ambition to be a PL manager, needs to be looking to move on and manage a lower league club in the next year or 18 months to really earn his stripes

Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .

deCoubertin

September 16, 2017, 05:16:13 PM
Reply #496
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Brownie20

NSNO Subscriber
Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .


Your response to my school analogy shows why we as fans should not make decisions about internal club business. There's is much more to the roles than just presiding over something that is well run.

So hypothetical we give the job to Unsworth. How does the fact that the rest of the club is well run has no bearing on performances on the pitch or his inexperience of dealing with pressure situations at either end of the table. People like to use the Norwich game as a barometer for what he could achieve. Things need to be taken into a bit of perspective. The gloom of the end of the Martinez era had been lifted, there was nothing to lose, Norwich were already relegated. If things started to go wrong would people give him a bit too long to sort things out as he is a blue? Or would they become more vitriolic towards him for the same reason?

He may (and I hope he does) become a really good manager. But hand on heart would you honestly want to entrust the future of the football club to someone who has no actual experience of being a manager? I wouldn't

« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 05:27:50 PM by Brownie20 »
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September 16, 2017, 05:19:09 PM
Reply #497
Online

toffee_scot


Definitely a valid concern.

That is the reason you bring in a Director of Football though surely. Given a specific club wide style remit, the Director Football should be signing players appropriate to it.

A Director of Football is hired specifically to avoid these issues. It's also why briniging in Steve Walsh after Koeman was so arse about tit.

Indeed, which is why I was quite happy when the club took this step forward to appoint one last year.

I am still wondering though what exactly Steve Walsh's remit is. I know he is heavily involved in the scouting of players and making a case for bringing young talent in, however, I don't know what he does with regards to the day to day running of the footballing side of things and let's just say Koeman was to be sacked tomorrow, would he have a role in helping to choose the next manager that fits the Everton system?


September 16, 2017, 05:26:36 PM
Reply #498
Online

toffee_scot


If Koeman was to be sacked shortly, I would actually have no problem if Unsworth became caretaker manager for a good few games whilst the club assessed other managerial options. If Unsworth were to do very well then keep him in that role until the end of the season and depending on his performance then look to see whether to offer him the job permanently.

September 16, 2017, 05:41:21 PM
Reply #499
Online

van der Meyde


let's just say Koeman was to be sacked tomorrow, would he have a role in helping to choose the next manager that fits the Everton system?
If Walsh wasn't the main person behind at a minimum shortlisting candidates for the next manager, I'd probably lose a lot of faith in Moshiri. He's just the best placed person to do it. He's worked on the coaching side as an assistant manager, he will presumably have the greatest knowledge of anybody high up in the club about managers around the world and he'll have the greatest contacts to check up on them. He's also the one who has recruited our younger players so will know what they're best suited to doing.

The decision about our future style of play should probably come from on top, but these generally aren't people with a great track record in football. Leave the footballing decisions to the people who are paid to make them.
...

September 16, 2017, 05:44:55 PM
Reply #500
Offline

phillyt


I think, given the structure at the club now, unsworth could come in and do a decent job. He is a well respected face around the club so the players would most likely take to him, in January when we need to strengthen again we have Walsh and moshiri to sell the idea of joining Everton so his inexperience their won't matter much and he would in theory give the young players a shot.

The thing is we don't just want decent, we don't want maybes, mostly and could do. We need to see progress we need to have someone who can take us forward. I always felt that rather than us being a stepping stone for koeman, he was a stepping stone for us. The stone is crumbling terribly now and is in danger of being washed away and carrying us down river. We need to step onto the next one now to take us closer to solid ground of where we need to be.
I'm fat, but it's not my fault I have a genetic condition resulting in me retaining burgers.


September 16, 2017, 05:55:26 PM
Reply #501
Online

ally2


I think, given the structure at the club now, unsworth could come in and do a decent job. He is a well respected face around the club so the players would most likely take to him, in January when we need to strengthen again we have Walsh and moshiri to sell the idea of joining Everton so his inexperience their won't matter much and he would in theory give the young players a shot.

The thing is we don't just want decent, we don't want maybes, mostly and could do. We need to see progress we need to have someone who can take us forward. I always felt that rather than us being a stepping stone for koeman, he was a stepping stone for us. The stone is crumbling terribly now and is in danger of being washed away and carrying us down river. We need to step onto the next one now to take us closer to solid ground of where we need to be.

That reminds me of the 'best of the second rate stone steppers' post a few years back

September 16, 2017, 06:18:07 PM
Reply #502
Offline

Rodenplav64


Your response to my school analogy shows why we as fans should not make decisions about internal club business. There's is much more to the roles than just presiding over something that is well run.

So hypothetical we give the job to Unsworth. How does the fact that the rest of the club is well run has no bearing on performances on the pitch or his inexperience of dealing with pressure situations at either end of the table. People like to use the Norwich game as a barometer for what he could achieve. Things need to be taken into a bit of perspective. The gloom of the end of the Martinez era had been lifted, there was nothing to lose, Norwich were already relegated. If things started to go wrong would people give him a bit too long to sort things out as he is a blue? Or would they become more vitriolic towards him for the same reason?

He may (and I hope he does) become a really good manager. But hand on heart would you honestly want to entrust the future of the football club to someone who has no actual experience of being a manager? I wouldn't



Hand on heart no but I was on about till the end of the season if Koeman went . I actually would sooner see Koeman achieve something but I just don't see it happening . The last game of the season after the toxicity of roberto is no barometer . To use the anology Unsworth would hardly be going from Teaching Assistant to Headmaster would he . Apparently there is so little at our club that Koeman is responsible for in any case .

September 16, 2017, 06:47:56 PM
Reply #503
Offline

Brownie20

NSNO Subscriber
Hand on heart no but I was on about till the end of the season if Koeman went . I actually would sooner see Koeman achieve something but I just don't see it happening . The last game of the season after the toxicity of roberto is no barometer . To use the anology Unsworth would hardly be going from Teaching Assistant to Headmaster would he . Apparently there is so little at our club that Koeman is responsible for in any case .


I used Form Tutor, not Teaching Assistant. Totally different roles
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September 16, 2017, 07:13:12 PM
Reply #504
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MrWhite

NSNO Subscriber
Logically, if the club was so well run that it would be fine to promote Unsy, then it wouldn't matter if Koeman was any good or not anyway? So the whole argument is self-referential and so null and void.

September 16, 2017, 07:31:21 PM
Reply #505
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Silas

NSNO Subscriber
I still think this is a mad conversation at this stage of the season despite the poor performances.  If I wanted bizarre sackings early season I would support Palace

September 16, 2017, 07:51:13 PM
Reply #506
Offline

kramer0


Who do you prefer, mate; Favre, Bielsa, or Tuchel?

I'd sack Koeman if Tuchel or Favre were interested in the job. I'm not sure I'd sack him for anyone else right now, minus a bunch of managers who are 100% unattainable to us. Even Tuchel and Favre might be a bit unattainable, although Favre clearly had some interest last summer so he's not totally out of the question.

Favre's tactics:

https://theinsidechannel.com/lucien-favres-tactics-at-borussia-monchengladbach/

https://chanceanalytics.com/2017/08/05/how-in-the-world-does-nice-overperform-expected-goals-part-one-the-defence/ (I couldn't find part two)

Tuchel's tactics:

http://bundesligafanatic.com/tuchel-modern-tactics-mainz05/

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/

There's no way I'd have Bielsa anymore. Two reasons:

(1) I think he's best for a team that's a complete shambles and needs a new tactical direction. A lot of his value is derived from leaving behind much smarter players than the ones he started with, e.g. Payet, Mendy, Batshuayi at Marseille; Llorente, Martinez, and Herrera at Athletic. I liked the idea of him teaching the likes of Stones, Barkley, and Deulofeu, but all of those players have since left or are leaving.

(2) I have enough questions about the board to be worried about him walking after a short time in charge. The second someone breaks a promise to Bielsa, he resigns. See his time at Lazio for a prime example.

Lille seem to be supporting him right now so it'll be interesting to see how they do this season.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:53:04 PM by kramer0 »

September 16, 2017, 08:18:19 PM
Reply #507
Offline

Realist


Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .

Why do people still think this is the case?

September 16, 2017, 08:43:28 PM
Reply #508
Offline

MrWhite

NSNO Subscriber
Why do people still think this is the case?

Why are you so sure that this is not the case?

September 16, 2017, 09:13:09 PM
Reply #509
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sam of the south


I'd sack Koeman if Tuchel or Favre were interested in the job. I'm not sure I'd sack him for anyone else right now, minus a bunch of managers who are 100% unattainable to us. Even Tuchel and Favre might be a bit unattainable, although Favre clearly had some interest last summer so he's not totally out of the question.

Favre's tactics:

https://theinsidechannel.com/lucien-favres-tactics-at-borussia-monchengladbach/

https://chanceanalytics.com/2017/08/05/how-in-the-world-does-nice-overperform-expected-goals-part-one-the-defence/ (I couldn't find part two)

Tuchel's tactics:

http://bundesligafanatic.com/tuchel-modern-tactics-mainz05/

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/

There's no way I'd have Bielsa anymore. Two reasons:

(1) I think he's best for a team that's a complete shambles and needs a new tactical direction. A lot of his value is derived from leaving behind much smarter players than the ones he started with, e.g. Payet, Mendy, Batshuayi at Marseille; Llorente, Martinez, and Herrera at Athletic. I liked the idea of him teaching the likes of Stones, Barkley, and Deulofeu, but all of those players have since left or are leaving.

(2) I have enough questions about the board to be worried about him walking after a short time in charge. The second someone breaks a promise to Bielsa, he resigns. See his time at Lazio for a prime example.

Lille seem to be supporting him right now so it'll be interesting to see how they do this season.

I knew you'd come through 😊

If our board is still being led by Bill and Elstone, I would worry that if we nudged out Koeman we would end up with BRETT Favre at the helm 😳
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them