October 23, 2017, 10:02:02 PM

Author Topic: The formation against Spurs  (Read 848 times)

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September 12, 2017, 02:56:09 PM
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ajax_andy


I don't get why we lined up like this but it seems Koeman is determined to fit all his best players in to the team even if it means the formation makes no sense.  Is it just me or is this how we lined up?

------------------Pickford----------------

Martina---Keane-----------Williams---Baines

------------Schneiderlin-----------------
---------------------Gueye

=======NO ONE============

Rooney--------Klaassen------------Siggurdsson

----------------Sandro-------------


It just makes no sense, Klaassen, Rooney and Sig all playing that far forward as there's a massive gap between Klaassen and the other 2 midfielders.  I think against lesser opposition Gueye can get forward more and bridge that gap a bit but against better teams he gets pushed so far back and Klaassen doesn't seem to have the awareness or maybe ability to drop deeper in to a more normal midfield role. 

I watched the Ajax vs Man U final and he had the same lack of impact or even touches in that game too, so either he needs to adapt his game when we are on the back foot and get more involved further back or be dropped for someone like Davies for these games.

I don't see what Koeman is hoping to achieve playing this formation with this personnel.  Can this work or does he need a massive rethink about who he plays and not just shoehorn all the number 10's in at once?

deCoubertin

September 12, 2017, 03:05:23 PM
Reply #1
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dazfrancis


From what I've seen, Davies is more ready for the premier league than Klaasen currently

September 12, 2017, 03:18:00 PM
Reply #2
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Sir Stealth

NSNO Subscriber
As discussed on last nights pod, there is concern about shoehorning players into the side, worry about the lack of width, the mindset of Wayne Rooney, the form of Ashley Williams, Morgan Schneiderlin and Cuco Martina and that it is going to take Klaassen and Sandro a while to adapt

If we take the first choice back 5 to be

                Pickford

Holgate Keane Jagielka Baines

Looking further forward I think we need to pick 2 central midfielders from - Gana, Schneiderlin, Besic, Davies

2 wingers from - Vlasic, Lennon, Mirallas, Lookman and possibly Sigurdsson

1 behind the striker from - Rooney, Klaassen, Sigurdsson

1 striker from - Calvert-Lewin, Sandro

I'm sure that not many will agree with me but right now I would go with

Lookman Gana Davies Vlasic
              Sigurdsson
             Calvert-Lewin

The 1 on form attacking player we have is in the team, who is also helping to link the attacking player better than anyone else, in DCL. We have width and pace in Vlasic and Lookman and 2 box to box players in Gana and Davies, injecting energy into the midfield. Sigurdsson can concentrate on creating in a role behind the striker and defensively we have the more solid Holgate

Vlasic is a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment but we need width in that side
You think Lou Bega knocked it out of the park with Mambo number 1?!No but he kept at it!


September 12, 2017, 03:36:38 PM
Reply #3
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ajax_andy


As discussed on last nights pod, there is concern about shoehorning players into the side, worry about the lack of width, the mindset of Wayne Rooney, the form of Ashley Williams, Morgan Schneiderlin and Cuco Martina and that it is going to take Klaassen and Sandro a while to adapt

If we take the first choice back 5 to be

                Pickford

Holgate Keane Jagielka Baines

Looking further forward I think we need to pick 2 central midfielders from - Gana, Schneiderlin, Besic, Davies

2 wingers from - Vlasic, Lennon, Mirallas, Lookman and possibly Sigurdsson

1 behind the striker from - Rooney, Klaassen, Sigurdsson

1 striker from - Calvert-Lewin, Sandro

I'm sure that not many will agree with me but right now I would go with

Lookman Gana Davies Vlasic
              Sigurdsson
             Calvert-Lewin

The 1 on form attacking player we have is in the team, who is also helping to link the attacking player better than anyone else, in DCL. We have width and pace in Vlasic and Lookman and 2 box to box players in Gana and Davies, injecting energy into the midfield. Sigurdsson can concentrate on creating in a role behind the striker and defensively we have the more solid Holgate

Vlasic is a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment but we need width in that side

Definitely agree with most of that, only thing I'm not sure about I'd starting Vlasic just yet.  He's probably not ready for the league yet, it'll take time to adapt, and the other thing I noticed when he came on is he didn't seem all that quick I didn't think?  Certainly not Lennon / Lookman quick anyway

September 12, 2017, 04:18:52 PM
Reply #4
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Lxxx


Whole balance of the side is wrong, whether we play four at the back, or three, or five. The worst part is I'm not even sure how we should line up for the best as looking at what we have I'm at a loss as to what might work and it wouldn't surprise me if Koeman is too. I think we'll continue to stumble through until we hit upon a formula, by accident or design.

September 12, 2017, 04:20:18 PM
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ally2


Similar to the strongest 11 thread.

I think we bought these attackers to cover for the season when some of them would be unfit or out of form. It's very difficult to know at this stage of the season whether players are out of form or simply still adapting to the league and their new team mates. The manager will always take the flack for standing by players who aren't quite on it at any given time. Fans get irate but it isn't fair at all. To drop Klaasen at this stage could be catastrophic for his confidence and I would be very disappointed in Koeman if he did that after spending 23m on me. That's why I'm pleased we have a manager and coaching staff to make these decisions. Football fans in general haven't got a clue (including me) and change their opinions game by game. It's more about leadership and strength of conviction, and I haven't wavered at all in my belief that we are a work in progress.

That said, Koeman always has the opportunity to see an injury or niggle that really isn't a problem but he can use that to justify team changes in the short term without having to 'drop' players the old fashioned way. And if that short term matter helps to build confidence then that should be the way forward.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:21:40 PM by ally2 »


September 12, 2017, 04:31:53 PM
Reply #6
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hill135


3-4-3

Holgate in a back three would actually step out with the ball to make the formation work. Three centre backs would also offer insurance against Martina's attacking instincts as he'd have another defender inside him. Morgs and Gueue is a very solid midfield pairing that can shield the defence and offer some control. All our wingers are ropey or young and untried and we have a hundred number 10s so stick Rooney and Sig behind DCL who could occupy defenders without being isolated. The advantage would be we could switch to 3-5-2 without changing any personnel. The weakness would be the left hand side as Jags is a right footed clogger and Baines can't run anymore.

either that or 4-1-4-1 with wingers. It would be solid and balanced but some new signings might stay on the bench.

September 12, 2017, 04:35:22 PM
Reply #7
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Rhys


To drop Klaasen at this stage could be catastrophic for his confidence and I would be very disappointed in Koeman if he did that after spending 23m on me. That's why I'm pleased we have a manager and coaching staff to make these decisions. Football fans in general haven't got a clue (including me) and change their opinions game by game. It's more about leadership and strength of conviction, and I haven't wavered at all in my belief that we are a work in progress.

Also it doesnt help that Davies looks completely out of form at the moment as well. If Davies was playing at the level we know he can play at then you could easily take Klaassen out, use Davies and ease Klaassen in if he is struggling. However if Davies had been brought in this summer based on what we've seen this season we'd be thinking what have we bought, whereas we know how good he was last season and of course that he is still only 18.

September 12, 2017, 04:40:09 PM
Reply #8
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themilkycoffees


I like DCL and hopefully will be a good player for us in time, but I don't know where this 'in form' thing is coming from. He had a decent game against City but I would hardly say he's in form. 1 in 7 this season and 2 in 19 overall is hardly in form, for a striker or a winger.

Just goes to show the dire situation we are in currently that there is such a reliance on a prospect like DCL. Personally, I'd go with Rooney in the main striker position until January, allow Sigurdsson to play in his best position and introduce players like DCL and Sandro in the right games and/or when Rooney needs a rest.

September 12, 2017, 04:41:01 PM
Reply #9
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van der Meyde


You've almost made it look like we had a right wing there...

I do wonder if we'd have been better off playing Sandro in that wide right position. Given Sandro's tendency to drop to the wing anyway and Rooney's tendency to run fucking everywhere, more restricted positions for the two of them might have made us a more balanced side.

I think Klaassen's a clever player and that will be useful for the games against teams in the bottom half of table where we can expect to have more of the ball. Even at Ajax though he was never at the centre of things, so I'm not sure his cleverness is enough to justify his place in the starting 11 against better sides. Davies has been pretty out of sorts this season though, so I'm not sure he's the best replacement as yet.
...

September 12, 2017, 06:57:49 PM
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Gash

Global Moderator
Also it doesnt help that Davies looks completely out of form at the moment as well. If Davies was playing at the level we know he can play at then you could easily take Klaassen out, use Davies and ease Klaassen in if he is struggling. However if Davies had been brought in this summer based on what we've seen this season we'd be thinking what have we bought, whereas we know how good he was last season and of course that he is still only 18.


I was thinking about him the other day, it's a slight worry how out of form he's looked so far. Could be a bit of second season syndrome but after being given a break during the summer it's a bit concerning. As you say, he's 18 so it's not a big worry and there's older, more experienced players showing just as badly.

September 12, 2017, 07:06:04 PM
Reply #11
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Shogun

Administrator
His form is down to being thrown into matches at random times in different positions than he's used to.
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September 12, 2017, 07:14:04 PM
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
His form is down to being thrown into matches at random times in different positions than he's used to.

He's played CM every time apart from away at Ruzomberok hasn't he?

I'd guess it's just one of those things that, like everything else, is being magnified as we haven't played well collectively.

We played well most of the time since he came into the side therefore any poor performances would have been carried more easily and not noticed.

September 12, 2017, 07:32:52 PM
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JordanianEmbassy


I'm not sure if the system is helping anyone at the moment is it? The shame of the side was horribly wrong vs Stoke in the first half and was sorted out in the second half, but has been all over the place since.
When you think about this its not hard to see why Klaassen is struggling. If we had a settled side + shape from last season and he was just slotted in it still might have taken him a few games or months to really find his feet.... what chance has he got now when the whole side is in a little bit of a mess?

September 12, 2017, 07:39:34 PM
Reply #14
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Shogun

Administrator
He's played CM every time apart from away at Ruzomberok hasn't he?

I'd guess it's just one of those things that, like everything else, is being magnified as we haven't played well collectively.

We played well most of the time since he came into the side therefore any poor performances would have been carried more easily and not noticed.

He played as a deeper CM against Chelsea for sure, he's not suited there imo.

The energy he brings in the final third is wasted and he doesn't really have the experience to play there.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:24:33 PM by Shogun »
I'm more trusting of fellas when they have my cock in their mouth